Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Dear Thor and list members, Regarding the USA chart (Virgo lagna), once again our dear was right. I was wrong. The ascendant of USA seems to be Scorpio instead of Virgo. We were on the correct date, July 2, but not with the right time (ascendant), that is why the Systems Approach was not functioning 100%. After additional information provided by an US historian, Mr. John TWB, all the rectification process was done once again with more than 34 new events and the new TOB of 15:48:12 came out as highly probable. It gives a Scorpio ascendant, as previously suggested by Mr. John. The longitude of the rectified lagna is 3 degrees 22 minutes 53 seconds. Ve/Sa/Sa began on 13 October 2004. USA, 2nd Congress Jul 2, 1776 3:48 PM +05:00 EST Philadelphia, PA:USA Longitude: 75W10 Latitude: 39N57 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 20:44 Current Period: VE/SA/SA Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 03:22 Sco Anuradha Sa Sun 20:37 Gem +00:57:11 WK Punarvasu Ju Moon 06:46 Cap +14:18:12 ST U.Shadya Su Mars 29:13 Tau +00:41:03 FM Mrigsira Ma MercR 04:16 Can -00:19:28 CM Pushya Sa Jupt 14:43 Gem +00:13:35 CM Ardra Ra Ven 09:50 Gem +01:13:28 FM Ardra Ra Sat 24:00 Vir +00:01:36 WK Chitra Ma Rahu 15:50 Can -00:00:47 FM Pushya Sa Ketu 15:50 Cap -00:00:47 FM Shravana Mo True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 908 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise: 4:37 AM Tithi: Krishna Dvitiya Yoga Pt: 0:43 Cn Yogi:Ju AviYogi:Su Dup Yogi: Mo Dagha Rashis: Sag Pisces Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 9 * * 7 ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *MO 06:46 * * * * * *KE 15:50 * 8 AS 03:22 * 6 SA 24:00* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *11 * 5 * ** * * ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MER04:16* * * 2 MA 29:13 * 4 RA 15:50* * * * * * * * * * VE 09:50* * * * * * JU 14:43 * * * * * * SU 20:37 * * * * * * * * ** 1 * * 3 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 6 * * 4 ** *7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MA * * * * * * * AS * * * * * 5 MER * 3 * * * * SA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *8 RA * 2 KE * ** * * ** *9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * VE * 11 JU * 1 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 10 * * 12 ** ******************************************************* Some events to test/understand the USA rectified chart: 20 Worst Aviation Disasters Involving U.S. Carriers Fatal Date Location Carrier Type 1 2752* 09/11/2001 New York City, New York American / United Airlines B767 /B767 2 583 03/27/1977 Tenerife, Canary Islands Pan Am / KLM B747 / B747 3 273 05/25/1979 Chicago, Illinois American Airlines DC10 4 270 12/21/1988 Lockerbie, Scotland Pan American World Airways B747 5 265 11/12/2001 Belle Harbor, Queens, New York American Airlines A300 6 256 12/12/1985 Gander, Newfoundland, Canada Arrow Airways DC8 7 230 07/17/1996 Off East Moriches, New York Trans World Airlines B747 8 189 09/11/2001 Arlington, Virginia American Airlines B757 9 160 12/20/1995 Buga, Columbia American Airlines B757 10 156 08/16/1987 Romulus, Michigan Northwest Airlines MD82 11 153 07/09/1982 Kenner, Louisiana Pan American World Airways B727 12 144 09/23/1978 San Diego, California Pacific Southwest/Private B727 /C172 13 135 08/02/1985 Ft. Worth-Dallas, Texas Delta Air Lines L1011 14 134 12/16/1960 Staten Island/Brooklyn, New York United Air Lines / TWA DC8 / L1049 15 132 09/08/1994 Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USAir B737 16 128 06/30/1956 Grand Canyon, Arizona United Airlines / TWA DC7 / L1049 17 115 06/24/1975 New York, New York Eastern Air Lines B727 18 112 07/19/1989 Sioux City, Iowa United Airlines DC10 - 111 09/04/1971 Juneau, Alaska Alaska Airlines B727 20 110 05/11/1996 Everglades, Miami, Florida Valujet DC9 Top 10 Natural Disasters in United States sorted by numbers of people killed and affected Disaster Date Killed Wind Storm 8-Sep-1900 6,000 Earthquake 18-Apr-1906 2,000 Wind Storm Sep-1928 1,836 Extreme Temperature Jul-1936 1,193 Wild Fires 15-Oct-1918 1,000 Wind Storm 17-Mar-1925 739 Flood Mar-1913 732 Extreme Temperature 14-Jul-1995 670 Wind Storm Sep-1938 600 Wind Storm 13-Jun-1984 600 Disaster Date Affected Wind Storm 5-Sep-2004 5,000,000 Wind Storm 13-Sep-1999 3,000,011 Wind Storm 30-Aug-1985 1,000,000 Wind Storm 5-Sep-1996 500,000 Epidemic Jan-1993 403,000 Wind Storm 11-Feb-1994 350,000 Wind Storm 24-Aug-1992 250,055 Wind Storm 18-Sep-2003 225,000 Wind Storm 28-Aug-1993 150,000 Flood 19-Jan-1996 150,000 1889 May 31. USA, Pennsylvania, Jonestown: dam break 2,209 people died (flood) New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Newfoundland - February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. 18 May - 1980 Mount St. Helens, a volcanic peak in Washington, suffers a massive eruption losing 1,700 feet. 1927 April 20th. Mississippi, Greenville: about 500 people died, 162,000 homes were flooded and 41,000 buildings destroyed; rescue operations include 33,000 people. The Whittier Narrows Earthquake of October 1, 1987. Epicenter: 34.0°N, 118.1°W; depth: 11 km; magnitude 5.9; damage: $358 million; 8 deaths. USS Iowa explosion - 19 April 1989, an explosion of undetermined cause ripped through her Number Two sixteen-inch gun turret killing 47 crewmen. USS Pueblo, which was attacked and captured by the North Korean Navy on January 23, 1968, was the first United States Navy ship to be hijacked on the high seas by a foreign military force in over 150 years. 22 NOVEMBER 1975: The U.S. aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) collided with the cruiser USS Belknap (CG-26) in rough seas at night during air exercises in the Mediterranean Sea off Sicily. Seven sailors killed aboard USS BELKNAP. USAir Flight 427 crash - 08 SEP 1994 - All 132 people on board were killed. On July 19, 1989, Crash of United Flight 232 at the Sioux City airport at 3:55 p.m. 184 people survived Sioux City crash; 112 died. 1928 March 12th. USA, Los Angeles area: collapse of the San Francis Dam, estimated 450 people died, 900 buildings were destroyed, 300 houses damaged and 24,000 acres of agricultural land was devastated (flood) 1937 January 22nd. USA, Ohio & Mississippi River Valleys in Kentucky / Ohio: cities like Louisville and cincinnati were under water, nearly one million people became homeless, property damage estimated over 400 million, 380 people died (flood) 1976 July 31st. USA, Colorado, Big Thompson Canyon River: rain storm produced a 20-foot high flash flood over a 25-mile stretch of the canyon; 418 buildings were destroyed, hundreds of people injured and 139 people died August 1, 1993. USA, Midwest / Mississippi: worst flooding in recorded history, 38,000 homes damaged or destroyed, 20 million acres of farmland under water. Ve/Ve/Ve October 4, 1998. USA, Kansas, Kansas City:severe flash floods caused by heavy rain, city had no flood reaction plan, 12 people died. Ve/Mo/Ke February 26, 1993, a massive explosion occurred in the public parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York. Ve/Ve/Ve April 19, 1995, around 9:03 a.m., just after parents dropped their children off at day care at the Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, the unthinkable happened. A massive bomb inside a rental truck exploded, blowing half of the nine-story building into oblivion. Ve/Ve/Sa At 11:38 a.m. EST on January 28, 1986, Space Shuttle Challenger lifted off from the launch pad 39B at Cape Canaveral's Kennedy Space Center. Seven astronauts were lost 73 seconds after launch when Space Shuttle Challenger exploded. Me/Sa/Ju USS Stark (FFG-31), She is remembered for the incident of May 17, 1987 when she was struck by two Exocet missiles from an Iraqi Mirage fighter during the Iran-Iraq War. The fighter had taken off from Shaibah at 20:00 and had flown south into the Persian Gulf. Shortly after being routinely challenged by the frigate at around 22:10 the fighter fired two Exocet ASM missiles. Thirty-seven crew were killed and twenty-one were injured. Ke/Ve/Sa August 7, 1998, bombing of the American Embassy in Nairobi. 80 killed. Ve/Mo/Me Crash: loss of vertical stabilizer and shedding of both engines on American Airlines Airbus Model 300-600, followed by crash into residential area shortly after takeoff from JFK International. Deaths: 265. Belle Harbor, NY, USA. (November 12, 2001) - Ve/Ra/Me Fire in wooden building and evacuation problems: The Station (nightclub). Deaths: 100. West Warwick, RI, USA. (Feb. 27, 2003) - Ve/Ra/Ma Blackout: of Northeast US electrical grid. Report pending. People affected: Est. 30-50 million. (August 14, 2003) - Ve/Ju/Ju Sultana (American steamboat): boiler explosion Mississippi River, near Memphis, Tennessee, United States. April 27, 1865. Deaths: at least 1,800 (ex-prisoners, crew and commercial passengers). July 17, 1996. Mysterious crash of TWA Flight 800. 230 passengers died. New London School: gas explosion. New London, Texas, United States. March 18, 1937. Deaths: 298 (students and teachers) Texas City docks: explosions of two fertilizer-carrying ships. Texas City, Texas, United States. April 16-17, 1947. Deaths: 580 (workers, firefighters and bystanders) Thresher (American submarine): sunk. Atlantic Ocean. April 10, 1963. Deaths: 129 (crew and contractor personnel) Canadian-United States Eastern Interconnection (CANUSE): blackout lasting up to 13 hours, affecting 30 million people Northeast United States. November 9, 1965. Eastern Airlines L-1011 airliner: crash into swamp at night. Everglades, Florida, United States. December 29, 1972. Deaths: 101 (crew and passengers) Hyatt Regency Hotel: collapse of two skywalks during “tea dance”. Kansas City, Missouri, United States. July 17, 1981. Deaths: 114. Galaxy Airlines Electra II airliner: crash during emergency return to airport. Reno, Nevada, United States. January 21, 1985. Deaths: 70 Pacific Engineering & Production Co. of Nevada (PEPCON): fire and explosion of 4,500 tons of ammonium perchlorate Henderson, Nevada, United States. May 4, 1988. Deaths: 2 (managers on site) Phillips 66 Co. Houston Chemical Complex: explosion and fire. Pasadena, Texas, United States. October 23, 1989. Deaths: 23 ValuJet DC-9 airliner: crash following fire in cargo compartment. Everglades, Florida, United States. May 1, 1996. Deaths: 110 (crew and passengers) May 28, 1977, a devastating fire swept through the Beverly Hills Supper Club in Southgate, Ky. The fire was discovered shortly before 9 p.m. and burned most of the night. It killed 165 people. Buffalo Creek, West Virginia - February 26, 1972. Dam breaks causing flood. 118 people die; 7 were missing. 4,000 homeless; 500 homes destroyed; $50 million in property damage. February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Boston, Massachusetts - November 28, 1942. Coconut Grove nightclub fire. Kills 492. Injures 166. Willamette Valley, Oregon - Columbus Day Storm, October 12, 1960. Forty-two people killed. $170 million property damage. Rapid City, South Dakota - June 9 & 10, 1972. Floods killed 238 persons; left 1,300 families homeless; caused over $100 million in property damage. Los Angeles, California - February 9, 1971. Earthquake kills 50. Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania - June 23, 1972. Hurricane Agnes creates flood. Six people killed. 80,000 evacuated, damage to 25,000 homes and destruction of 400 homes. Property damage estimated at over $2 billion. Southgate, Kentucky - May 28, 1977 - Beverly Hills Supper Club fire. Kills 165. Injures 60 1968 May 27, The US nuclear submarine Scorpion was lost. Best wishes, satva Jorge Angelino Rua da Sociedade Filarmónica Perpétua Azeitonense, 29 2925-598 Azeitão Portugal jorge.angelino tel: mobile: 210813674 963916784 Add me to your address book... 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Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Hi Jorge, I'm very happy to see the detailed and CONVINCING results of your revised rectification for the birth chart of the USA. For the benefit of the group membership I will be very glad to field any questions of detail on the historical justification of this "mid-afternoon" time-moment choice, or offer bibliographic references depicting and confirming the background to Jorge's rectification. Jorge certainly faced the challenge. Mundane rectification as you all know is really difficult in the absence of a clear unambiguous historical record. P.S. But I must caution that I steadfastly eschew acrimonious discussions with believers, of which they are legion, who insist on other birth DATES for the USA, such as July 6th 1775, July 4th 1776 or other commonly proposed alternative dates. Discussion on these alternative dates' histories, yes; but I'll leave the metaphysical questions of horoscopic suitability to Jorge and Thor and others. Indisputably, the most momentous event of the first week of July 1776 was the culminating heroic effort of the delegates from the 13 United Colonies to reach agreement to Declare "Independency" from the Crown and Parliament of Great Britain, the Congress' approving vote finally taken in Philadelphia during the mid-afternoon on Tuesday July 2nd, 1776. (And all this momentous accomplishment notwithstanding the fact that the formal concurring permission for the 13th delegation, New York, arrived days later. The New York delegates gave their non-voting assuring support on that historic day and so stayed the course that week in unity with the other 12, promising that once their New York convention met on July 8th their vote would soon after be counted as it was to be; in fact as it turned out by the proceedings of the N.Y. Constitutional Convention at White Plains, New York, just a few hours before George Washington's organized proclamation of the Declaration of Independence to his troops on the Bowling Green in New York City, Tuesday July 9th at about 6:00 pm)Best regards, John Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote: Dear Thor and list members, Regarding the USA chart (Virgo lagna), once again our dear was right. I was wrong. The ascendant of USA seems to be Scorpio instead of Virgo. We were on the correct date, July 2, but not with the right time (ascendant), that is why the Systems Approach was not functioning 100%. After additional information provided by an US historian, Mr. John TWB, all the rectification process was done once again with more than 34 new events and the new TOB of 15:48:12 came out as highly probable. It gives a Scorpio ascendant, as previously suggested by Mr. John. The longitude of the rectified lagna is 3 degrees 22 minutes 53 seconds. Ve/Sa/Sa began on 13 October 2004. USA, 2nd Congress Jul 2, 1776 3:48 PM +05:00 EST Philadelphia, PA:USA Longitude: 75W10 Latitude: 39N57 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 20:44 Current Period: VE/SA/SA Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 03:22 Sco Anuradha Sa Sun 20:37 Gem +00:57:11 WK Punarvasu Ju Moon 06:46 Cap +14:18:12 ST U.Shadya Su Mars 29:13 Tau +00:41:03 FM Mrigsira Ma MercR 04:16 Can -00:19:28 CM Pushya Sa Jupt 14:43 Gem +00:13:35 CM Ardra Ra Ven 09:50 Gem +01:13:28 FM Ardra Ra Sat 24:00 Vir +00:01:36 WK Chitra Ma Rahu 15:50 Can -00:00:47 FM Pushya Sa Ketu 15:50 Cap -00:00:47 FM Shravana Mo True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 908 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise: 4:37 AM Tithi: Krishna Dvitiya Yoga Pt: 0:43 Cn Yogi:Ju AviYogi:Su Dup Yogi: Mo Dagha Rashis: Sag Pisces Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 9 * * 7 ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *MO 06:46 * * * * * *KE 15:50 * 8 AS 03:22 * 6 SA 24:00* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *11 * 5 * ** * * ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MER04:16* * * 2 MA 29:13 * 4 RA 15:50* * * * * * * * * * VE 09:50* * * * * * JU 14:43 * * * * * * SU 20:37 * * * * * * * * ** 1 * * 3 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 6 * * 4 ** *7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MA * * * * * * * AS * * * * * 5 MER * 3 * * * * SA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *8 RA * 2 KE * ** * * ** *9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * VE * 11 JU * 1 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 10 * * 12 ** ******************************************************* Some events to test/understand the USA rectified chart: 20 Worst Aviation Disasters Involving U.S. Carriers Fatal Date Location Carrier Type 1 2752* 09/11/2001 New York City, New York American / United Airlines B767 /B767 2 583 03/27/1977 Tenerife, Canary Islands Pan Am / KLM B747 / B747 3 273 05/25/1979 Chicago, Illinois American Airlines DC10 4 270 12/21/1988 Lockerbie, Scotland Pan American World Airways B747 5 265 11/12/2001 Belle Harbor, Queens, New York American Airlines A300 6 256 12/12/1985 Gander, Newfoundland, Canada Arrow Airways DC8 7 230 07/17/1996 Off East Moriches, New York Trans World Airlines B747 8 189 09/11/2001 Arlington, Virginia American Airlines B757 9 160 12/20/1995 Buga, Columbia American Airlines B757 10 156 08/16/1987 Romulus, Michigan Northwest Airlines MD82 11 153 07/09/1982 Kenner, Louisiana Pan American World Airways B727 12 144 09/23/1978 San Diego, California Pacific Southwest/Private B727 /C172 13 135 08/02/1985 Ft. Worth-Dallas, Texas Delta Air Lines L1011 14 134 12/16/1960 Staten Island/Brooklyn, New York United Air Lines / TWA DC8 / L1049 15 132 09/08/1994 Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USAir B737 16 128 06/30/1956 Grand Canyon, Arizona United Airlines / TWA DC7 / L1049 17 115 06/24/1975 New York, New York Eastern Air Lines B727 18 112 07/19/1989 Sioux City, Iowa United Airlines DC10 - 111 09/04/1971 Juneau, Alaska Alaska Airlines B727 20 110 05/11/1996 Everglades, Miami, Florida Valujet DC9 Top 10 Natural Disasters in United States sorted by numbers of people killed and affected Disaster Date Killed Wind Storm 8-Sep-1900 6,000 Earthquake 18-Apr-1906 2,000 Wind Storm Sep-1928 1,836 Extreme Temperature Jul-1936 1,193 Wild Fires 15-Oct-1918 1,000 Wind Storm 17-Mar-1925 739 Flood Mar-1913 732 Extreme Temperature 14-Jul-1995 670 Wind Storm Sep-1938 600 Wind Storm 13-Jun-1984 600 Disaster Date Affected Wind Storm 5-Sep-2004 5,000,000 Wind Storm 13-Sep-1999 3,000,011 Wind Storm 30-Aug-1985 1,000,000 Wind Storm 5-Sep-1996 500,000 Epidemic Jan-1993 403,000 Wind Storm 11-Feb-1994 350,000 Wind Storm 24-Aug-1992 250,055 Wind Storm 18-Sep-2003 225,000 Wind Storm 28-Aug-1993 150,000 Flood 19-Jan-1996 150,000 1889 May 31. USA, Pennsylvania, Jonestown: dam break 2,209 people died (flood) New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Newfoundland - February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. 18 May - 1980 Mount St. Helens, a volcanic peak in Washington, suffers a massive eruption losing 1,700 feet. 1927 April 20th. Mississippi, Greenville: about 500 people died, 162,000 homes were flooded and 41,000 buildings destroyed; rescue operations include 33,000 people. The Whittier Narrows Earthquake of October 1, 1987. Epicenter: 34.0°N, 118.1°W; depth: 11 km; magnitude 5.9; damage: $358 million; 8 deaths. USS Iowa explosion - 19 April 1989, an explosion of undetermined cause ripped through her Number Two sixteen-inch gun turret killing 47 crewmen. USS Pueblo, which was attacked and captured by the North Korean Navy on January 23, 1968, was the first United States Navy ship to be hijacked on the high seas by a foreign military force in over 150 years. 22 NOVEMBER 1975: The U.S. aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) collided with the cruiser USS Belknap (CG-26) in rough seas at night during air exercises in the Mediterranean Sea off Sicily. Seven sailors killed aboard USS BELKNAP. USAir Flight 427 crash - 08 SEP 1994 - All 132 people on board were killed. On July 19, 1989, Crash of United Flight 232 at the Sioux City airport at 3:55 p.m. 184 people survived Sioux City crash; 112 died. 1928 March 12th. USA, Los Angeles area: collapse of the San Francis Dam, estimated 450 people died, 900 buildings were destroyed, 300 houses damaged and 24,000 acres of agricultural land was devastated (flood) 1937 January 22nd. USA, Ohio & Mississippi River Valleys in Kentucky / Ohio: cities like Louisville and cincinnati were under water, nearly one million people became homeless, property damage estimated over 400 million, 380 people died (flood) 1976 July 31st. USA, Colorado, Big Thompson Canyon River: rain storm produced a 20-foot high flash flood over a 25-mile stretch of the canyon; 418 buildings were destroyed, hundreds of people injured and 139 people died August 1, 1993. USA, Midwest / Mississippi: worst flooding in recorded history, 38,000 homes damaged or destroyed, 20 million acres of farmland under water. Ve/Ve/Ve October 4, 1998. USA, Kansas, Kansas City:severe flash floods caused by heavy rain, city had no flood reaction plan, 12 people died. Ve/Mo/Ke February 26, 1993, a massive explosion occurred in the public parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York. Ve/Ve/Ve April 19, 1995, around 9:03 a.m., just after parents dropped their children off at day care at the Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, the unthinkable happened. A massive bomb inside a rental truck exploded, blowing half of the nine-story building into oblivion. Ve/Ve/Sa At 11:38 a.m. EST on January 28, 1986, Space Shuttle Challenger lifted off from the launch pad 39B at Cape Canaveral's Kennedy Space Center. Seven astronauts were lost 73 seconds after launch when Space Shuttle Challenger exploded. Me/Sa/Ju USS Stark (FFG-31), She is remembered for the incident of May 17, 1987 when she was struck by two Exocet missiles from an Iraqi Mirage fighter during the Iran-Iraq War. The fighter had taken off from Shaibah at 20:00 and had flown south into the Persian Gulf. Shortly after being routinely challenged by the frigate at around 22:10 the fighter fired two Exocet ASM missiles. Thirty-seven crew were killed and twenty-one were injured. Ke/Ve/Sa August 7, 1998, bombing of the American Embassy in Nairobi. 80 killed. Ve/Mo/Me Crash: loss of vertical stabilizer and shedding of both engines on American Airlines Airbus Model 300-600, followed by crash into residential area shortly after takeoff from JFK International. Deaths: 265. Belle Harbor, NY, USA. (November 12, 2001) - Ve/Ra/Me Fire in wooden building and evacuation problems: The Station (nightclub). Deaths: 100. West Warwick, RI, USA. (Feb. 27, 2003) - Ve/Ra/Ma Blackout: of Northeast US electrical grid. Report pending. People affected: Est. 30-50 million. (August 14, 2003) - Ve/Ju/Ju Sultana (American steamboat): boiler explosion Mississippi River, near Memphis, Tennessee, United States. April 27, 1865. Deaths: at least 1,800 (ex-prisoners, crew and commercial passengers). July 17, 1996. Mysterious crash of TWA Flight 800. 230 passengers died. New London School: gas explosion. New London, Texas, United States. March 18, 1937. Deaths: 298 (students and teachers) Texas City docks: explosions of two fertilizer-carrying ships. Texas City, Texas, United States. April 16-17, 1947. Deaths: 580 (workers, firefighters and bystanders) Thresher (American submarine): sunk. Atlantic Ocean. April 10, 1963. Deaths: 129 (crew and contractor personnel) Canadian-United States Eastern Interconnection (CANUSE): blackout lasting up to 13 hours, affecting 30 million people Northeast United States. November 9, 1965. Eastern Airlines L-1011 airliner: crash into swamp at night. Everglades, Florida, United States. December 29, 1972. Deaths: 101 (crew and passengers) Hyatt Regency Hotel: collapse of two skywalks during “tea dance”. Kansas City, Missouri, United States. July 17, 1981. Deaths: 114. Galaxy Airlines Electra II airliner: crash during emergency return to airport. Reno, Nevada, United States. January 21, 1985. Deaths: 70 Pacific Engineering & Production Co. of Nevada (PEPCON): fire and explosion of 4,500 tons of ammonium perchlorate Henderson, Nevada, United States. May 4, 1988. Deaths: 2 (managers on site) Phillips 66 Co. Houston Chemical Complex: explosion and fire. Pasadena, Texas, United States. October 23, 1989. Deaths: 23 ValuJet DC-9 airliner: crash following fire in cargo compartment. Everglades, Florida, United States. May 1, 1996. Deaths: 110 (crew and passengers) May 28, 1977, a devastating fire swept through the Beverly Hills Supper Club in Southgate, Ky. The fire was discovered shortly before 9 p.m. and burned most of the night. It killed 165 people. Buffalo Creek, West Virginia - February 26, 1972. Dam breaks causing flood. 118 people die; 7 were missing. 4,000 homeless; 500 homes destroyed; $50 million in property damage. February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Boston, Massachusetts - November 28, 1942. Coconut Grove nightclub fire. Kills 492. Injures 166. Willamette Valley, Oregon - Columbus Day Storm, October 12, 1960. Forty-two people killed. $170 million property damage. Rapid City, South Dakota - June 9 & 10, 1972. Floods killed 238 persons; left 1,300 families homeless; caused over $100 million in property damage. Los Angeles, California - February 9, 1971. Earthquake kills 50. Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania - June 23, 1972. Hurricane Agnes creates flood. Six people killed. 80,000 evacuated, damage to 25,000 homes and destruction of 400 homes. Property damage estimated at over $2 billion. Southgate, Kentucky - May 28, 1977 - Beverly Hills Supper Club fire. Kills 165. Injures 60 1968 May 27, The US nuclear submarine Scorpion was lost. Best wishes, satva Jorge Angelino Rua da Sociedade Filarmónica Perpétua Azeitonense, 292925-598 AzeitãoPortugal jorge.angelino tel: mobile: 210813674963916784 Add me to your address book... 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Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Dear John, Your help in getting the right time of birth for the USA was precious. Thank you very much. Now it is just a matter of patience and time to see how the chart works in predictions, but I am also convinced that finally we got it! Cheers, Jorge JOHN TWB [jtwbjakarta] segunda-feira, 8 de Novembro de 2004 22:36 SAMVA Re: USA rectified chart (correction) Hi Jorge, I'm very happy to see the detailed and CONVINCING results of your revised rectification for the birth chart of the USA. For the benefit of the group membership I will be very glad to field any questions of detail on the historical justification of this " mid-afternoon " time-moment choice, or offer bibliographic references depicting and confirming the background to Jorge's rectification. Jorge certainly faced the challenge. Mundane rectification as you all know is really difficult in the absence of a clear unambiguous historical record. P.S. But I must caution that I steadfastly eschew acrimonious discussions with believers, of which they are legion, who insist on other birth DATES for the USA, such as July 6th 1775, July 4th 1776 or other commonly proposed alternative dates. Discussion on these alternative dates' histories, yes; but I'll leave the metaphysical questions of horoscopic suitability to Jorge and Thor and others. Indisputably, the most momentous event of the first week of July 1776 was the culminating heroic effort of the delegates from the 13 United Colonies to reach agreement to Declare " Independency " from the Crown and Parliament of Great Britain, the Congress' approving vote finally taken in Philadelphia during the mid-afternoon on Tuesday July 2nd, 1776. (And all this momentous accomplishment notwithstanding the fact that the formal concurring permission for the 13th delegation, New York, arrived days later. The New York delegates gave their non-voting assuring support on that historic day and so stayed the course that week in unity with the other 12, promising that once their New York convention met on July 8th their vote would soon after be counted as it was to be; in fact as it turned out by the proceedings of the N.Y. Constitutional Convention at White Plains, New York, just a few hours before George Washington's organized proclamation of the Declaration of Independence to his troops on the Bowling Green in New York City, Tuesday July 9th at about 6:00 pm) Best regards, John Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote: Dear Thor and list members, Regarding the USA chart (Virgo lagna), once again our dear was right. I was wrong. The ascendant of USA seems to be Scorpio instead of Virgo. We were on the correct date, July 2, but not with the right time (ascendant), that is why the Systems Approach was not functioning 100%. After additional information provided by an US historian, Mr. John TWB, all the rectification process was done once again with more than 34 new events and the new TOB of 15:48:12 came out as highly probable. It gives a Scorpio ascendant, as previously suggested by Mr. John. The longitude of the rectified lagna is 3 degrees 22 minutes 53 seconds. Ve/Sa/Sa began on 13 October 2004. USA, 2nd Congress Jul 2, 1776 3:48 PM +05:00 EST Philadelphia, PA:USA Longitude: 75W10 Latitude: 39N57 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 20:44 Current Period: VE/SA/SA Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 03:22 Sco Anuradha Sa Sun 20:37 Gem +00:57:11 WK Punarvasu Ju Moon 06:46 Cap +14:18:12 ST U.Shadya Su Mars 29:13 Tau +00:41:03 FM Mrigsira Ma MercR 04:16 Can -00:19:28 CM Pushya Sa Jupt 14:43 Gem +00:13:35 CM Ardra Ra Ven 09:50 Gem +01:13:28 FM Ardra Ra Sat 24:00 Vir +00:01:36 WK Chitra Ma Rahu 15:50 Can -00:00:47 FM Pushya Sa Ketu 15:50 Cap -00:00:47 FM Shravana Mo True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 908 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise: 4:37 AM Tithi: Krishna Dvitiya Yoga Pt: 0:43 Cn Yogi:Ju AviYogi:Su Dup Yogi: Mo Dagha Rashis: Sag Pisces Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 9 * * 7 ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *MO 06:46 * * * * * *KE 15:50 * 8 AS 03:22 * 6 SA 24:00* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *11 * 5 * ** * * ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MER04:16* * * 2 MA 29:13 * 4 RA 15:50* * * * * * * * * * VE 09:50* * * * * * JU 14:43 * * * * * * SU 20:37 * * * * * * * * ** 1 * * 3 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 6 * * 4 ** *7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MA * * * * * * * AS * * * * * 5 MER * 3 * * * * SA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *8 RA * 2 KE * ** * * ** *9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * VE * 11 JU * 1 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 10 * * 12 ** ******************************************************* Some events to test/understand the USA rectified chart: 20 Worst Aviation Disasters Involving U.S. Carriers Fatal Date Location Carrier Type 1 2752* 09/11/2001 New York City, New York American / United Airlines B767 /B767 2 583 03/27/1977 Tenerife, Canary Islands Pan Am / KLM B747 / B747 3 273 05/25/1979 Chicago, Illinois American Airlines DC10 4 270 12/21/1988 Lockerbie, Scotland Pan American World Airways B747 5 265 11/12/2001 Belle Harbor, Queens, New York American Airlines A300 6 256 12/12/1985 Gander, Newfoundland, Canada Arrow Airways DC8 7 230 07/17/1996 Off East Moriches, New York Trans World Airlines B747 8 189 09/11/2001 Arlington, Virginia American Airlines B757 9 160 12/20/1995 Buga, Columbia American Airlines B757 10 156 08/16/1987 Romulus, Michigan Northwest Airlines MD82 11 153 07/09/1982 Kenner, Louisiana Pan American World Airways B727 12 144 09/23/1978 San Diego, California Pacific Southwest/Private B727 /C172 13 135 08/02/1985 Ft. Worth-Dallas, Texas Delta Air Lines L1011 14 134 12/16/1960 Staten Island/Brooklyn, New York United Air Lines / TWA DC8 / L1049 15 132 09/08/1994 Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USAir B737 16 128 06/30/1956 Grand Canyon, Arizona United Airlines / TWA DC7 / L1049 17 115 06/24/1975 New York, New York Eastern Air Lines B727 18 112 07/19/1989 Sioux City, Iowa United Airlines DC10 - 111 09/04/1971 Juneau, Alaska Alaska Airlines B727 20 110 05/11/1996 Everglades, Miami, Florida Valujet DC9 Top 10 Natural Disasters in United States sorted by numbers of people killed and affected Disaster Date Killed Wind Storm 8-Sep-1900 6,000 Earthquake 18-Apr-1906 2,000 Wind Storm Sep-1928 1,836 Extreme Temperature Jul-1936 1,193 Wild Fires 15-Oct-1918 1,000 Wind Storm 17-Mar-1925 739 Flood Mar-1913 732 Extreme Temperature 14-Jul-1995 670 Wind Storm Sep-1938 600 Wind Storm 13-Jun-1984 600 Disaster Date Affected Wind Storm 5-Sep-2004 5,000,000 Wind Storm 13-Sep-1999 3,000,011 Wind Storm 30-Aug-1985 1,000,000 Wind Storm 5-Sep-1996 500,000 Epidemic Jan-1993 403,000 Wind Storm 11-Feb-1994 350,000 Wind Storm 24-Aug-1992 250,055 Wind Storm 18-Sep-2003 225,000 Wind Storm 28-Aug-1993 150,000 Flood 19-Jan-1996 150,000 1889 May 31. USA, Pennsylvania, Jonestown: dam break 2,209 people died (flood) New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Newfoundland - February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. 18 May - 1980 Mount St. Helens, a volcanic peak in Washington, suffers a massive eruption losing 1,700 feet. 1927 April 20th. Mississippi, Greenville: about 500 people died, 162,000 homes were flooded and 41,000 buildings destroyed; rescue operations include 33,000 people. The Whittier Narrows Earthquake of October 1, 1987. Epicenter: 34.0°N, 118.1°W; depth: 11 km; magnitude 5.9; damage: $358 million; 8 deaths. USS Iowa explosion - 19 April 1989, an explosion of undetermined cause ripped through her Number Two sixteen-inch gun turret killing 47 crewmen. USS Pueblo, which was attacked and captured by the North Korean Navy on January 23, 1968, was the first United States Navy ship to be hijacked on the high seas by a foreign military force in over 150 years. 22 NOVEMBER 1975: The U.S. aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) collided with the cruiser USS Belknap (CG-26) in rough seas at night during air exercises in the Mediterranean Sea off Sicily. Seven sailors killed aboard USS BELKNAP. USAir Flight 427 crash - 08 SEP 1994 - All 132 people on board were killed. On July 19, 1989, Crash of United Flight 232 at the Sioux City airport at 3:55 p.m. 184 people survived Sioux City crash; 112 died. 1928 March 12th. USA, Los Angeles area: collapse of the San Francis Dam, estimated 450 people died, 900 buildings were destroyed, 300 houses damaged and 24,000 acres of agricultural land was devastated (flood) 1937 January 22nd. USA, Ohio & Mississippi River Valleys in Kentucky / Ohio: cities like Louisville and cincinnati were under water, nearly one million people became homeless, property damage estimated over 400 million, 380 people died (flood) 1976 July 31st. USA, Colorado, Big Thompson Canyon River: rain storm produced a 20-foot high flash flood over a 25-mile stretch of the canyon; 418 buildings were destroyed, hundreds of people injured and 139 people died August 1, 1993. USA, Midwest / Mississippi: worst flooding in recorded history, 38,000 homes damaged or destroyed, 20 million acres of farmland under water. Ve/Ve/Ve October 4, 1998. USA, Kansas, Kansas City:severe flash floods caused by heavy rain, city had no flood reaction plan, 12 people died. Ve/Mo/Ke February 26, 1993, a massive explosion occurred in the public parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York. Ve/Ve/Ve April 19, 1995, around 9:03 a.m., just after parents dropped their children off at day care at the Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, the unthinkable happened. A massive bomb inside a rental truck exploded, blowing half of the nine-story building into oblivion. Ve/Ve/Sa At 11:38 a.m. EST on January 28, 1986, Space Shuttle Challenger lifted off from the launch pad 39B at Cape Canaveral's Kennedy Space Center. Seven astronauts were lost 73 seconds after launch when Space Shuttle Challenger exploded. Me/Sa/Ju USS Stark (FFG-31), She is remembered for the incident of May 17, 1987 when she was struck by two Exocet missiles from an Iraqi Mirage fighter during the Iran-Iraq War. The fighter had taken off from Shaibah at 20:00 and had flown south into the Persian Gulf. Shortly after being routinely challenged by the frigate at around 22:10 the fighter fired two Exocet ASM missiles. Thirty-seven crew were killed and twenty-one were injured. Ke/Ve/Sa August 7, 1998, bombing of the American Embassy in Nairobi. 80 killed. Ve/Mo/Me Crash: loss of vertical stabilizer and shedding of both engines on American Airlines Airbus Model 300-600, followed by crash into residential area shortly after takeoff from JFK International. Deaths: 265. Belle Harbor, NY, USA. (November 12, 2001) - Ve/Ra/Me Fire in wooden building and evacuation problems: The Station (nightclub). Deaths: 100. West Warwick, RI, USA. (Feb. 27, 2003) - Ve/Ra/Ma Blackout: of Northeast US electrical grid. Report pending. People affected: Est. 30-50 million. (August 14, 2003) - Ve/Ju/Ju Sultana (American steamboat): boiler explosion Mississippi River, near Memphis, Tennessee, United States. April 27, 1865. Deaths: at least 1,800 (ex-prisoners, crew and commercial passengers). July 17, 1996. Mysterious crash of TWA Flight 800. 230 passengers died. New London School: gas explosion. New London, Texas, United States. March 18, 1937. Deaths: 298 (students and teachers) Texas City docks: explosions of two fertilizer-carrying ships. Texas City, Texas, United States. April 16-17, 1947. Deaths: 580 (workers, firefighters and bystanders) Thresher (American submarine): sunk. Atlantic Ocean. April 10, 1963. Deaths: 129 (crew and contractor personnel) Canadian-United States Eastern Interconnection (CANUSE): blackout lasting up to 13 hours, affecting 30 million people Northeast United States. November 9, 1965. Eastern Airlines L-1011 airliner: crash into swamp at night. Everglades, Florida, United States. December 29, 1972. Deaths: 101 (crew and passengers) Hyatt Regency Hotel: collapse of two skywalks during “tea dance”. Kansas City, Missouri, United States. July 17, 1981. Deaths: 114. Galaxy Airlines Electra II airliner: crash during emergency return to airport. Reno, Nevada, United States. January 21, 1985. Deaths: 70 Pacific Engineering & Production Co. of Nevada (PEPCON): fire and explosion of 4,500 tons of ammonium perchlorate Henderson, Nevada, United States. May 4, 1988. Deaths: 2 (managers on site) Phillips 66 Co. Houston Chemical Complex: explosion and fire. Pasadena, Texas, United States. October 23, 1989. Deaths: 23 ValuJet DC-9 airliner: crash following fire in cargo compartment. Everglades, Florida, United States. May 1, 1996. Deaths: 110 (crew and passengers) May 28, 1977, a devastating fire swept through the Beverly Hills Supper Club in Southgate, Ky. The fire was discovered shortly before 9 p.m. and burned most of the night. It killed 165 people. Buffalo Creek, West Virginia - February 26, 1972. Dam breaks causing flood. 118 people die; 7 were missing. 4,000 homeless; 500 homes destroyed; $50 million in property damage. February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Boston, Massachusetts - November 28, 1942. Coconut Grove nightclub fire. Kills 492. Injures 166. Willamette Valley, Oregon - Columbus Day Storm, October 12, 1960. Forty-two people killed. $170 million property damage. Rapid City, South Dakota - June 9 & 10, 1972. Floods killed 238 persons; left 1,300 families homeless; caused over $100 million in property damage. Los Angeles, California - February 9, 1971. Earthquake kills 50. Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania - June 23, 1972. Hurricane Agnes creates flood. Six people killed. 80,000 evacuated, damage to 25,000 homes and destruction of 400 homes. Property damage estimated at over $2 billion. Southgate, Kentucky - May 28, 1977 - Beverly Hills Supper Club fire. Kills 165. Injures 60 1968 May 27, The US nuclear submarine Scorpion was lost. Best wishes, satva Jorge Angelino Rua da Sociedade Filarmónica Perpétua Azeitonense, 29 2925-598 Azeitão Portugal jorge.angelino tel: mobile: 210813674 963916784 Add me to your address book... 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Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Dear Jorge: I very much appreciate all of your work and the rectifications of the many charts for various countries. With reference to the recent chart for USA with Scorpio rising, I am having trouble seeing any power or leadership in the chart. The planets are largely weak, and Sun, ruling leadership, and Jupiter, ruling status, are badly placed in the eighth house. Moon, the final dispositor for Saturn and Mercury, is debilitated in the Dasamsa chart of success and prosperity. Perhaps I am missing something... Please advise. Thank you. Best wishes, David Hawthorne, M.S., J.B.President, IIPAhttp://www.iipa.net - Jorge Angelino SAMVA Monday, November 08, 2004 3:21 PM USA rectified chart (correction) Dear Thor and list members, Regarding the USA chart (Virgo lagna), once again our dear was right. I was wrong. The ascendant of USA seems to be Scorpio instead of Virgo. We were on the correct date, July 2, but not with the right time (ascendant), that is why the Systems Approach was not functioning 100%. After additional information provided by an US historian, Mr. John TWB, all the rectification process was done once again with more than 34 new events and the new TOB of 15:48:12 came out as highly probable. It gives a Scorpio ascendant, as previously suggested by Mr. John. The longitude of the rectified lagna is 3 degrees 22 minutes 53 seconds. Ve/Sa/Sa began on 13 October 2004. USA, 2nd Congress Jul 2, 1776 3:48 PM +05:00 EST Philadelphia, PA:USA Longitude: 75W10 Latitude: 39N57 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 20:44 Current Period: VE/SA/SA Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 03:22 Sco Anuradha Sa Sun 20:37 Gem +00:57:11 WK Punarvasu Ju Moon 06:46 Cap +14:18:12 ST U.Shadya Su Mars 29:13 Tau +00:41:03 FM Mrigsira Ma MercR 04:16 Can -00:19:28 CM Pushya Sa Jupt 14:43 Gem +00:13:35 CM Ardra Ra Ven 09:50 Gem +01:13:28 FM Ardra Ra Sat 24:00 Vir +00:01:36 WK Chitra Ma Rahu 15:50 Can -00:00:47 FM Pushya Sa Ketu 15:50 Cap -00:00:47 FM Shravana Mo True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 908 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise: 4:37 AM Tithi: Krishna Dvitiya Yoga Pt: 0:43 Cn Yogi:Ju AviYogi:Su Dup Yogi: Mo Dagha Rashis: Sag Pisces Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 9 * * 7 ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *MO 06:46 * * * * * *KE 15:50 * 8 AS 03:22 * 6 SA 24:00* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *11 * 5 * ** * * ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MER04:16* * * 2 MA 29:13 * 4 RA 15:50* * * * * * * * * * VE 09:50* * * * * * JU 14:43 * * * * * * SU 20:37 * * * * * * * * ** 1 * * 3 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 6 * * 4 ** *7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MA * * * * * * * AS * * * * * 5 MER * 3 * * * * SA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *8 RA * 2 KE * ** * * ** *9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * VE * 11 JU * 1 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 10 * * 12 ** ******************************************************* Some events to test/understand the USA rectified chart: 20 Worst Aviation Disasters Involving U.S. Carriers Fatal Date Location Carrier Type 1 2752* 09/11/2001 New York City, New York American / United Airlines B767 /B767 2 583 03/27/1977 Tenerife, Canary Islands Pan Am / KLM B747 / B747 3 273 05/25/1979 Chicago, Illinois American Airlines DC10 4 270 12/21/1988 Lockerbie, Scotland Pan American World Airways B747 5 265 11/12/2001 Belle Harbor, Queens, New York American Airlines A300 6 256 12/12/1985 Gander, Newfoundland, Canada Arrow Airways DC8 7 230 07/17/1996 Off East Moriches, New York Trans World Airlines B747 8 189 09/11/2001 Arlington, Virginia American Airlines B757 9 160 12/20/1995 Buga, Columbia American Airlines B757 10 156 08/16/1987 Romulus, Michigan Northwest Airlines MD82 11 153 07/09/1982 Kenner, Louisiana Pan American World Airways B727 12 144 09/23/1978 San Diego, California Pacific Southwest/Private B727 /C172 13 135 08/02/1985 Ft. Worth-Dallas, Texas Delta Air Lines L1011 14 134 12/16/1960 Staten Island/Brooklyn, New York United Air Lines / TWA DC8 / L1049 15 132 09/08/1994 Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USAir B737 16 128 06/30/1956 Grand Canyon, Arizona United Airlines / TWA DC7 / L1049 17 115 06/24/1975 New York, New York Eastern Air Lines B727 18 112 07/19/1989 Sioux City, Iowa United Airlines DC10 - 111 09/04/1971 Juneau, Alaska Alaska Airlines B727 20 110 05/11/1996 Everglades, Miami, Florida Valujet DC9 Top 10 Natural Disasters in United States sorted by numbers of people killed and affected Disaster Date Killed Wind Storm 8-Sep-1900 6,000 Earthquake 18-Apr-1906 2,000 Wind Storm Sep-1928 1,836 Extreme Temperature Jul-1936 1,193 Wild Fires 15-Oct-1918 1,000 Wind Storm 17-Mar-1925 739 Flood Mar-1913 732 Extreme Temperature 14-Jul-1995 670 Wind Storm Sep-1938 600 Wind Storm 13-Jun-1984 600 Disaster Date Affected Wind Storm 5-Sep-2004 5,000,000 Wind Storm 13-Sep-1999 3,000,011 Wind Storm 30-Aug-1985 1,000,000 Wind Storm 5-Sep-1996 500,000 Epidemic Jan-1993 403,000 Wind Storm 11-Feb-1994 350,000 Wind Storm 24-Aug-1992 250,055 Wind Storm 18-Sep-2003 225,000 Wind Storm 28-Aug-1993 150,000 Flood 19-Jan-1996 150,000 1889 May 31. USA, Pennsylvania, Jonestown: dam break 2,209 people died (flood) New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Newfoundland - February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. 18 May - 1980 Mount St. Helens, a volcanic peak in Washington, suffers a massive eruption losing 1,700 feet. 1927 April 20th. Mississippi, Greenville: about 500 people died, 162,000 homes were flooded and 41,000 buildings destroyed; rescue operations include 33,000 people. The Whittier Narrows Earthquake of October 1, 1987. Epicenter: 34.0°N, 118.1°W; depth: 11 km; magnitude 5.9; damage: $358 million; 8 deaths. USS Iowa explosion - 19 April 1989, an explosion of undetermined cause ripped through her Number Two sixteen-inch gun turret killing 47 crewmen. USS Pueblo, which was attacked and captured by the North Korean Navy on January 23, 1968, was the first United States Navy ship to be hijacked on the high seas by a foreign military force in over 150 years. 22 NOVEMBER 1975: The U.S. aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) collided with the cruiser USS Belknap (CG-26) in rough seas at night during air exercises in the Mediterranean Sea off Sicily. Seven sailors killed aboard USS BELKNAP. USAir Flight 427 crash - 08 SEP 1994 - All 132 people on board were killed. On July 19, 1989, Crash of United Flight 232 at the Sioux City airport at 3:55 p.m. 184 people survived Sioux City crash; 112 died. 1928 March 12th. USA, Los Angeles area: collapse of the San Francis Dam, estimated 450 people died, 900 buildings were destroyed, 300 houses damaged and 24,000 acres of agricultural land was devastated (flood) 1937 January 22nd. USA, Ohio & Mississippi River Valleys in Kentucky / Ohio: cities like Louisville and cincinnati were under water, nearly one million people became homeless, property damage estimated over 400 million, 380 people died (flood) 1976 July 31st. USA, Colorado, Big Thompson Canyon River: rain storm produced a 20-foot high flash flood over a 25-mile stretch of the canyon; 418 buildings were destroyed, hundreds of people injured and 139 people died August 1, 1993. USA, Midwest / Mississippi: worst flooding in recorded history, 38,000 homes damaged or destroyed, 20 million acres of farmland under water. Ve/Ve/Ve October 4, 1998. USA, Kansas, Kansas City:severe flash floods caused by heavy rain, city had no flood reaction plan, 12 people died. Ve/Mo/Ke February 26, 1993, a massive explosion occurred in the public parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York. Ve/Ve/Ve April 19, 1995, around 9:03 a.m., just after parents dropped their children off at day care at the Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, the unthinkable happened. A massive bomb inside a rental truck exploded, blowing half of the nine-story building into oblivion. Ve/Ve/Sa At 11:38 a.m. EST on January 28, 1986, Space Shuttle Challenger lifted off from the launch pad 39B at Cape Canaveral's Kennedy Space Center. Seven astronauts were lost 73 seconds after launch when Space Shuttle Challenger exploded. Me/Sa/Ju USS Stark (FFG-31), She is remembered for the incident of May 17, 1987 when she was struck by two Exocet missiles from an Iraqi Mirage fighter during the Iran-Iraq War. The fighter had taken off from Shaibah at 20:00 and had flown south into the Persian Gulf. Shortly after being routinely challenged by the frigate at around 22:10 the fighter fired two Exocet ASM missiles. Thirty-seven crew were killed and twenty-one were injured. Ke/Ve/Sa August 7, 1998, bombing of the American Embassy in Nairobi. 80 killed. Ve/Mo/Me Crash: loss of vertical stabilizer and shedding of both engines on American Airlines Airbus Model 300-600, followed by crash into residential area shortly after takeoff from JFK International. Deaths: 265. Belle Harbor, NY, USA. (November 12, 2001) - Ve/Ra/Me Fire in wooden building and evacuation problems: The Station (nightclub). Deaths: 100. West Warwick, RI, USA. (Feb. 27, 2003) - Ve/Ra/Ma Blackout: of Northeast US electrical grid. Report pending. People affected: Est. 30-50 million. (August 14, 2003) - Ve/Ju/Ju Sultana (American steamboat): boiler explosion Mississippi River, near Memphis, Tennessee, United States. April 27, 1865. Deaths: at least 1,800 (ex-prisoners, crew and commercial passengers). July 17, 1996. Mysterious crash of TWA Flight 800. 230 passengers died. New London School: gas explosion. New London, Texas, United States. March 18, 1937. Deaths: 298 (students and teachers) Texas City docks: explosions of two fertilizer-carrying ships. Texas City, Texas, United States. April 16-17, 1947. Deaths: 580 (workers, firefighters and bystanders) Thresher (American submarine): sunk. Atlantic Ocean. April 10, 1963. Deaths: 129 (crew and contractor personnel) Canadian-United States Eastern Interconnection (CANUSE): blackout lasting up to 13 hours, affecting 30 million people Northeast United States. November 9, 1965. Eastern Airlines L-1011 airliner: crash into swamp at night. Everglades, Florida, United States. December 29, 1972. Deaths: 101 (crew and passengers) Hyatt Regency Hotel: collapse of two skywalks during “tea dance”. Kansas City, Missouri, United States. July 17, 1981. Deaths: 114. Galaxy Airlines Electra II airliner: crash during emergency return to airport. Reno, Nevada, United States. January 21, 1985. Deaths: 70 Pacific Engineering & Production Co. of Nevada (PEPCON): fire and explosion of 4,500 tons of ammonium perchlorate Henderson, Nevada, United States. May 4, 1988. Deaths: 2 (managers on site) Phillips 66 Co. Houston Chemical Complex: explosion and fire. Pasadena, Texas, United States. October 23, 1989. Deaths: 23 ValuJet DC-9 airliner: crash following fire in cargo compartment. Everglades, Florida, United States. May 1, 1996. Deaths: 110 (crew and passengers) May 28, 1977, a devastating fire swept through the Beverly Hills Supper Club in Southgate, Ky. The fire was discovered shortly before 9 p.m. and burned most of the night. It killed 165 people. Buffalo Creek, West Virginia - February 26, 1972. Dam breaks causing flood. 118 people die; 7 were missing. 4,000 homeless; 500 homes destroyed; $50 million in property damage. February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Boston, Massachusetts - November 28, 1942. Coconut Grove nightclub fire. Kills 492. Injures 166. Willamette Valley, Oregon - Columbus Day Storm, October 12, 1960. Forty-two people killed. $170 million property damage. Rapid City, South Dakota - June 9 & 10, 1972. Floods killed 238 persons; left 1,300 families homeless; caused over $100 million in property damage. Los Angeles, California - February 9, 1971. Earthquake kills 50. Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania - June 23, 1972. Hurricane Agnes creates flood. Six people killed. 80,000 evacuated, damage to 25,000 homes and destruction of 400 homes. Property damage estimated at over $2 billion. Southgate, Kentucky - May 28, 1977 - Beverly Hills Supper Club fire. Kills 165. Injures 60 1968 May 27, The US nuclear submarine Scorpion was lost. Best wishes, satva Jorge Angelino Rua da Sociedade Filarmónica Perpétua Azeitonense, 292925-598 AzeitãoPortugal jorge.angelino tel: mobile: 210813674963916784 Add me to your address book... 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Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Dear David, Thank you for your kind words of inspiration. To make sure about the rising degree, I will rectify it again with totally different events. For me it was also strange in the beginning because I was getting familiar with the Virgo rising chart, but the opinion of made me think deeply about it during the last couple of months. The email from John TWB came just in time and helped me a lot in my decision to look with more attention to the Scorpio chart. The Sun and Venus are only weak on account of being badly placed. The Moon is strong and aspects its own house. Regarding status, the Sun, L10, and Jupiter, L2, widely aspect the house of status, which is a positive influence. However, Venus, L12, also aspects it, which is a detrimental influence (coming from abroad). The close conjunction of Jupiter, lord of status, with the Sun, also related with status and leadership is a favorable factor. In dasamsha, even though debilitated, the Moon is not afflicted and occupies H4, its natural house, from where it aspects in exaltation H10. Leo rises in dasamsha and the Sun is placed in H5, its natural house. The manipulative factor of Rahu is influencing not only the lagna but also the Sun and Mercury. So it seems that the dasamsha chart is not so weak in terms of success and prosperity. Best wishes, Jorge David Hawthorne [david] terça-feira, 9 de Novembro de 2004 18:28 SAMVA Re: USA rectified chart (correction) Dear Jorge: I very much appreciate all of your work and the rectifications of the many charts for various countries. With reference to the recent chart for USA with Scorpio rising, I am having trouble seeing any power or leadership in the chart. The planets are largely weak, and Sun, ruling leadership, and Jupiter, ruling status, are badly placed in the eighth house. Moon, the final dispositor for Saturn and Mercury, is debilitated in the Dasamsa chart of success and prosperity. Perhaps I am missing something... Please advise. Thank you. Best wishes, David Hawthorne, M.S., J.B. President, IIPA http://www.iipa.net - Jorge Angelino SAMVA Monday, November 08, 2004 3:21 PM USA rectified chart (correction) Dear Thor and list members, Regarding the USA chart (Virgo lagna), once again our dear was right. I was wrong. The ascendant of USA seems to be Scorpio instead of Virgo. We were on the correct date, July 2, but not with the right time (ascendant), that is why the Systems Approach was not functioning 100%. After additional information provided by an US historian, Mr. John TWB, all the rectification process was done once again with more than 34 new events and the new TOB of 15:48:12 came out as highly probable. It gives a Scorpio ascendant, as previously suggested by Mr. John. The longitude of the rectified lagna is 3 degrees 22 minutes 53 seconds. Ve/Sa/Sa began on 13 October 2004. USA, 2nd Congress Jul 2, 1776 3:48 PM +05:00 EST Philadelphia, PA:USA Longitude: 75W10 Latitude: 39N57 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 20:44 Current Period: VE/SA/SA Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 03:22 Sco Anuradha Sa Sun 20:37 Gem +00:57:11 WK Punarvasu Ju Moon 06:46 Cap +14:18:12 ST U.Shadya Su Mars 29:13 Tau +00:41:03 FM Mrigsira Ma MercR 04:16 Can -00:19:28 CM Pushya Sa Jupt 14:43 Gem +00:13:35 CM Ardra Ra Ven 09:50 Gem +01:13:28 FM Ardra Ra Sat 24:00 Vir +00:01:36 WK Chitra Ma Rahu 15:50 Can -00:00:47 FM Pushya Sa Ketu 15:50 Cap -00:00:47 FM Shravana Mo True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 908 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise: 4:37 AM Tithi: Krishna Dvitiya Yoga Pt: 0:43 Cn Yogi:Ju AviYogi:Su Dup Yogi: Mo Dagha Rashis: Sag Pisces Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 9 * * 7 ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *MO 06:46 * * * * * *KE 15:50 * 8 AS 03:22 * 6 SA 24:00* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *11 * 5 * ** * * ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MER04:16* * * 2 MA 29:13 * 4 RA 15:50* * * * * * * * * * VE 09:50* * * * * * JU 14:43 * * * * * * SU 20:37 * * * * * * * * ** 1 * * 3 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 6 * * 4 ** *7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MA * * * * * * * AS * * * * * 5 MER * 3 * * * * SA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *8 RA * 2 KE * ** * * ** *9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * VE * 11 JU * 1 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 10 * * 12 ** ******************************************************* Some events to test/understand the USA rectified chart: 20 Worst Aviation Disasters Involving U.S. Carriers Fatal Date Location Carrier Type 1 2752* 09/11/2001 New York City, New York American / United Airlines B767 /B767 2 583 03/27/1977 Tenerife, Canary Islands Pan Am / KLM B747 / B747 3 273 05/25/1979 Chicago, Illinois American Airlines DC10 4 270 12/21/1988 Lockerbie, Scotland Pan American World Airways B747 5 265 11/12/2001 Belle Harbor, Queens, New York American Airlines A300 6 256 12/12/1985 Gander, Newfoundland, Canada Arrow Airways DC8 7 230 07/17/1996 Off East Moriches, New York Trans World Airlines B747 8 189 09/11/2001 Arlington, Virginia American Airlines B757 9 160 12/20/1995 Buga, Columbia American Airlines B757 10 156 08/16/1987 Romulus, Michigan Northwest Airlines MD82 11 153 07/09/1982 Kenner, Louisiana Pan American World Airways B727 12 144 09/23/1978 San Diego, California Pacific Southwest/Private B727 /C172 13 135 08/02/1985 Ft. Worth-Dallas, Texas Delta Air Lines L1011 14 134 12/16/1960 Staten Island/Brooklyn, New York United Air Lines / TWA DC8 / L1049 15 132 09/08/1994 Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USAir B737 16 128 06/30/1956 Grand Canyon, Arizona United Airlines / TWA DC7 / L1049 17 115 06/24/1975 New York, New York Eastern Air Lines B727 18 112 07/19/1989 Sioux City, Iowa United Airlines DC10 - 111 09/04/1971 Juneau, Alaska Alaska Airlines B727 20 110 05/11/1996 Everglades, Miami, Florida Valujet DC9 Top 10 Natural Disasters in United States sorted by numbers of people killed and affected Disaster Date Killed Wind Storm 8-Sep-1900 6,000 Earthquake 18-Apr-1906 2,000 Wind Storm Sep-1928 1,836 Extreme Temperature Jul-1936 1,193 Wild Fires 15-Oct-1918 1,000 Wind Storm 17-Mar-1925 739 Flood Mar-1913 732 Extreme Temperature 14-Jul-1995 670 Wind Storm Sep-1938 600 Wind Storm 13-Jun-1984 600 Disaster Date Affected Wind Storm 5-Sep-2004 5,000,000 Wind Storm 13-Sep-1999 3,000,011 Wind Storm 30-Aug-1985 1,000,000 Wind Storm 5-Sep-1996 500,000 Epidemic Jan-1993 403,000 Wind Storm 11-Feb-1994 350,000 Wind Storm 24-Aug-1992 250,055 Wind Storm 18-Sep-2003 225,000 Wind Storm 28-Aug-1993 150,000 Flood 19-Jan-1996 150,000 1889 May 31. USA, Pennsylvania, Jonestown: dam break 2,209 people died (flood) New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Newfoundland - February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. 18 May - 1980 Mount St. Helens, a volcanic peak in Washington, suffers a massive eruption losing 1,700 feet. 1927 April 20th. Mississippi, Greenville: about 500 people died, 162,000 homes were flooded and 41,000 buildings destroyed; rescue operations include 33,000 people. The Whittier Narrows Earthquake of October 1, 1987. Epicenter: 34.0°N, 118.1°W; depth: 11 km; magnitude 5.9; damage: $358 million; 8 deaths. USS Iowa explosion - 19 April 1989, an explosion of undetermined cause ripped through her Number Two sixteen-inch gun turret killing 47 crewmen. USS Pueblo, which was attacked and captured by the North Korean Navy on January 23, 1968, was the first United States Navy ship to be hijacked on the high seas by a foreign military force in over 150 years. 22 NOVEMBER 1975: The U.S. aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) collided with the cruiser USS Belknap (CG-26) in rough seas at night during air exercises in the Mediterranean Sea off Sicily. Seven sailors killed aboard USS BELKNAP. USAir Flight 427 crash - 08 SEP 1994 - All 132 people on board were killed. On July 19, 1989, Crash of United Flight 232 at the Sioux City airport at 3:55 p.m. 184 people survived Sioux City crash; 112 died. 1928 March 12th. USA, Los Angeles area: collapse of the San Francis Dam, estimated 450 people died, 900 buildings were destroyed, 300 houses damaged and 24,000 acres of agricultural land was devastated (flood) 1937 January 22nd. USA, Ohio & Mississippi River Valleys in Kentucky / Ohio: cities like Louisville and cincinnati were under water, nearly one million people became homeless, property damage estimated over 400 million, 380 people died (flood) 1976 July 31st. USA, Colorado, Big Thompson Canyon River: rain storm produced a 20-foot high flash flood over a 25-mile stretch of the canyon; 418 buildings were destroyed, hundreds of people injured and 139 people died August 1, 1993. USA, Midwest / Mississippi: worst flooding in recorded history, 38,000 homes damaged or destroyed, 20 million acres of farmland under water. Ve/Ve/Ve October 4, 1998. USA, Kansas, Kansas City:severe flash floods caused by heavy rain, city had no flood reaction plan, 12 people died. Ve/Mo/Ke February 26, 1993, a massive explosion occurred in the public parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York. Ve/Ve/Ve April 19, 1995, around 9:03 a.m., just after parents dropped their children off at day care at the Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, the unthinkable happened. A massive bomb inside a rental truck exploded, blowing half of the nine-story building into oblivion. Ve/Ve/Sa At 11:38 a.m. EST on January 28, 1986, Space Shuttle Challenger lifted off from the launch pad 39B at Cape Canaveral's Kennedy Space Center. Seven astronauts were lost 73 seconds after launch when Space Shuttle Challenger exploded. Me/Sa/Ju USS Stark (FFG-31), She is remembered for the incident of May 17, 1987 when she was struck by two Exocet missiles from an Iraqi Mirage fighter during the Iran-Iraq War. The fighter had taken off from Shaibah at 20:00 and had flown south into the Persian Gulf. Shortly after being routinely challenged by the frigate at around 22:10 the fighter fired two Exocet ASM missiles. Thirty-seven crew were killed and twenty-one were injured. Ke/Ve/Sa August 7, 1998, bombing of the American Embassy in Nairobi. 80 killed. Ve/Mo/Me Crash: loss of vertical stabilizer and shedding of both engines on American Airlines Airbus Model 300-600, followed by crash into residential area shortly after takeoff from JFK International. Deaths: 265. Belle Harbor, NY, USA. (November 12, 2001) - Ve/Ra/Me Fire in wooden building and evacuation problems: The Station (nightclub). Deaths: 100. West Warwick, RI, USA. (Feb. 27, 2003) - Ve/Ra/Ma Blackout: of Northeast US electrical grid. Report pending. People affected: Est. 30-50 million. (August 14, 2003) - Ve/Ju/Ju Sultana (American steamboat): boiler explosion Mississippi River, near Memphis, Tennessee, United States. April 27, 1865. Deaths: at least 1,800 (ex-prisoners, crew and commercial passengers). July 17, 1996. Mysterious crash of TWA Flight 800. 230 passengers died. New London School: gas explosion. New London, Texas, United States. March 18, 1937. Deaths: 298 (students and teachers) Texas City docks: explosions of two fertilizer-carrying ships. Texas City, Texas, United States. April 16-17, 1947. Deaths: 580 (workers, firefighters and bystanders) Thresher (American submarine): sunk. Atlantic Ocean. April 10, 1963. Deaths: 129 (crew and contractor personnel) Canadian-United States Eastern Interconnection (CANUSE): blackout lasting up to 13 hours, affecting 30 million people Northeast United States. November 9, 1965. Eastern Airlines L-1011 airliner: crash into swamp at night. Everglades, Florida, United States. December 29, 1972. Deaths: 101 (crew and passengers) Hyatt Regency Hotel: collapse of two skywalks during “tea dance”. Kansas City, Missouri, United States. July 17, 1981. Deaths: 114. Galaxy Airlines Electra II airliner: crash during emergency return to airport. Reno, Nevada, United States. January 21, 1985. Deaths: 70 Pacific Engineering & Production Co. of Nevada (PEPCON): fire and explosion of 4,500 tons of ammonium perchlorate Henderson, Nevada, United States. May 4, 1988. Deaths: 2 (managers on site) Phillips 66 Co. Houston Chemical Complex: explosion and fire. Pasadena, Texas, United States. October 23, 1989. Deaths: 23 ValuJet DC-9 airliner: crash following fire in cargo compartment. Everglades, Florida, United States. May 1, 1996. Deaths: 110 (crew and passengers) May 28, 1977, a devastating fire swept through the Beverly Hills Supper Club in Southgate, Ky. The fire was discovered shortly before 9 p.m. and burned most of the night. It killed 165 people. Buffalo Creek, West Virginia - February 26, 1972. Dam breaks causing flood. 118 people die; 7 were missing. 4,000 homeless; 500 homes destroyed; $50 million in property damage. February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Boston, Massachusetts - November 28, 1942. Coconut Grove nightclub fire. Kills 492. Injures 166. Willamette Valley, Oregon - Columbus Day Storm, October 12, 1960. Forty-two people killed. $170 million property damage. Rapid City, South Dakota - June 9 & 10, 1972. Floods killed 238 persons; left 1,300 families homeless; caused over $100 million in property damage. Los Angeles, California - February 9, 1971. Earthquake kills 50. Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania - June 23, 1972. Hurricane Agnes creates flood. Six people killed. 80,000 evacuated, damage to 25,000 homes and destruction of 400 homes. Property damage estimated at over $2 billion. Southgate, Kentucky - May 28, 1977 - Beverly Hills Supper Club fire. Kills 165. Injures 60 1968 May 27, The US nuclear submarine Scorpion was lost. Best wishes, satva Jorge Angelino Rua da Sociedade Filarmónica Perpétua Azeitonense, 29 2925-598 Azeitão Portugal jorge.angelino tel: mobile: 210813674 963916784 Add me to your address book... 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Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hi David and Group David raises an interesting point about Jorge's choice of rectification, but I believe that what David appears to be driving at are characteristics which ought to be evident in the birthchart of the U.S. Federal Government, but I maintain that they are not necessarily found in the birthchart of the USA. Fundamentally, my comment entails distinguishing between the two conceptually real and distinct entities: Government and Nation State. Notwithstanding what appears to be an almost interminable confusion of these two entities by mundane astrologers, I believe in the case of constitutional republics, at least, that for any nation state and its national government the mundane analyst must often refer to both horoscopes to achieve the desired results from investigation For example, if one just samples the list of "USA" horoscopes at AstroDataBank.com, the confusion is apparent in many of the accompanying message comments. For example, as much as one may understandably believe that there is value in studying the horoscopes for November 15, 1777; March 1, 1781; March 4, 1789 and April 30, 1789, I've come to view these dates as signifying the inception or birth of governmental arrangements and not those characteristic of the birth of sovereignty; which significations of sovereignty, even where I may disagree with the inferences of others taken, I clearly recognize some of the telltale signs, for example, in the horoscopes: Sept 5, 1774; July 6, 1775; July 2, 1776; July 4, 1776; Sept 3, 1783; Sept 17, 1787; and Sept 13, 1788. In free societies Governmental arrangements presuppose Sovereign arrangements; not the other way around. So not surprisingly in what I take to be the Masonically inspired direction to key political events in U.S. history, one typically finds the SUN in the 10th House marking governmental starts while it's in the 8th House that one finds the SUN for the Sovereign start. This dichotomy may no doubt be challenged as I am not unaware that there are prominent exceptions in at least some the proposed Sovereign dates I have cited (eg Howland, Sibley/Rudhyar, Armistead), but when such an instance is so cited I first look to see if the historical homework has been done. For example, the Articles of Confedration: if one refers first to the relevant dates in the Journals of the Continental Congress as well as the Papers of the Continental Congress, one can find documented a precise moment for Maryland's ratification of the Articles of Confederation; Maryland's being the 13th and final one. The time is 12:00 noon, as recorded in the Maryland Legislature's explicit letter of instruction, dated Feb 22, 1781, to their delegates in Congress, Daniel Carroll and John Hanson. (Of course this places the SUN in the 10th House/MC as I would have expected from the outset). Now one may find in AstroDataBank.com this horoscope for a much different time moment on that justifiably historic day, not unlikely depicting the SUN in the 8th House. Very interesting choice of time but equally very wrong. The historical record disallows it. Furthermore, as previously implied only in brief, the reason one ought to find the SUN in the 10th House here is that the Articles were of a Treaty among the 13 states, a Treaty stipulating national governmental arrangements. A treaty ratified by 13 Sovereign States. Self-declared Sovereign before 1781, on July 2nd, 1776 and soon after then publicized in the Declaration of Independence. Clearly, the value of this 1781 horoscope is what it discloses about the Confederation government's role in national events from 1781 until 1789 when it was finally superseded by the U.S. Federal Government. The Articles were the result of prior sovereign arrangements, not their cause. In closing, if one were to show me a proposed horoscope for the birth of the United States that doesn't place the SUN in the 8th House, I would be very very sceptical about what it purports to be, then study it as closely as I've done with the Articles of Confederation. I remain willing to be convinced that it just really isn't quite so straightforward a problematic; that's why I joined this Group; I hope to learn from it. Best Regards, JOHN David Hawthorne <david wrote: Dear Jorge: I very much appreciate all of your work and the rectifications of the many charts for various countries. With reference to the recent chart for USA with Scorpio rising, I am having trouble seeing any power or leadership in the chart. The planets are largely weak, and Sun, ruling leadership, and Jupiter, ruling status, are badly placed in the eighth house. Moon, the final dispositor for Saturn and Mercury, is debilitated in the Dasamsa chart of success and prosperity. Perhaps I am missing something... Please advise. Thank you. Best wishes, David Hawthorne, M.S., J.B.President, IIPAhttp://www.iipa.net - Jorge Angelino SAMVA Monday, November 08, 2004 3:21 PM USA rectified chart (correction) Dear Thor and list members, Regarding the USA chart (Virgo lagna), once again our dear was right. I was wrong. The ascendant of USA seems to be Scorpio instead of Virgo. We were on the correct date, July 2, but not with the right time (ascendant), that is why the Systems Approach was not functioning 100%. After additional information provided by an US historian, Mr. John TWB, all the rectification process was done once again with more than 34 new events and the new TOB of 15:48:12 came out as highly probable. It gives a Scorpio ascendant, as previously suggested by Mr. John. The longitude of the rectified lagna is 3 degrees 22 minutes 53 seconds. Ve/Sa/Sa began on 13 October 2004. USA, 2nd Congress Jul 2, 1776 3:48 PM +05:00 EST Philadelphia, PA:USA Longitude: 75W10 Latitude: 39N57 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 20:44 Current Period: VE/SA/SA Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 03:22 Sco Anuradha Sa Sun 20:37 Gem +00:57:11 WK Punarvasu Ju Moon 06:46 Cap +14:18:12 ST U.Shadya Su Mars 29:13 Tau +00:41:03 FM Mrigsira Ma MercR 04:16 Can -00:19:28 CM Pushya Sa Jupt 14:43 Gem +00:13:35 CM Ardra Ra Ven 09:50 Gem +01:13:28 FM Ardra Ra Sat 24:00 Vir +00:01:36 WK Chitra Ma Rahu 15:50 Can -00:00:47 FM Pushya Sa Ketu 15:50 Cap -00:00:47 FM Shravana Mo True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 908 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise: 4:37 AM Tithi: Krishna Dvitiya Yoga Pt: 0:43 Cn Yogi:Ju AviYogi:Su Dup Yogi: Mo Dagha Rashis: Sag Pisces Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 9 * * 7 ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *MO 06:46 * * * * * *KE 15:50 * 8 AS 03:22 * 6 SA 24:00* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *11 * 5 * ** * * ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MER04:16* * * 2 MA 29:13 * 4 RA 15:50* * * * * * * * * * VE 09:50* * * * * * JU 14:43 * * * * * * SU 20:37 * * * * * * * * ** 1 * * 3 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 6 * * 4 ** *7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MA * * * * * * * AS * * * * * 5 MER * 3 * * * * SA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *8 RA * 2 KE * ** * * ** *9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * VE * 11 JU * 1 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 10 * * 12 ** ******************************************************* Some events to test/understand the USA rectified chart: 20 Worst Aviation Disasters Involving U.S. Carriers Fatal Date Location Carrier Type 1 2752* 09/11/2001 New York City, New York American / United Airlines B767 /B767 2 583 03/27/1977 Tenerife, Canary Islands Pan Am / KLM B747 / B747 3 273 05/25/1979 Chicago, Illinois American Airlines DC10 4 270 12/21/1988 Lockerbie, Scotland Pan American World Airways B747 5 265 11/12/2001 Belle Harbor, Queens, New York American Airlines A300 6 256 12/12/1985 Gander, Newfoundland, Canada Arrow Airways DC8 7 230 07/17/1996 Off East Moriches, New York Trans World Airlines B747 8 189 09/11/2001 Arlington, Virginia American Airlines B757 9 160 12/20/1995 Buga, Columbia American Airlines B757 10 156 08/16/1987 Romulus, Michigan Northwest Airlines MD82 11 153 07/09/1982 Kenner, Louisiana Pan American World Airways B727 12 144 09/23/1978 San Diego, California Pacific Southwest/Private B727 /C172 13 135 08/02/1985 Ft. Worth-Dallas, Texas Delta Air Lines L1011 14 134 12/16/1960 Staten Island/Brooklyn, New York United Air Lines / TWA DC8 / L1049 15 132 09/08/1994 Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USAir B737 16 128 06/30/1956 Grand Canyon, Arizona United Airlines / TWA DC7 / L1049 17 115 06/24/1975 New York, New York Eastern Air Lines B727 18 112 07/19/1989 Sioux City, Iowa United Airlines DC10 - 111 09/04/1971 Juneau, Alaska Alaska Airlines B727 20 110 05/11/1996 Everglades, Miami, Florida Valujet DC9 Top 10 Natural Disasters in United States sorted by numbers of people killed and affected Disaster Date Killed Wind Storm 8-Sep-1900 6,000 Earthquake 18-Apr-1906 2,000 Wind Storm Sep-1928 1,836 Extreme Temperature Jul-1936 1,193 Wild Fires 15-Oct-1918 1,000 Wind Storm 17-Mar-1925 739 Flood Mar-1913 732 Extreme Temperature 14-Jul-1995 670 Wind Storm Sep-1938 600 Wind Storm 13-Jun-1984 600 Disaster Date Affected Wind Storm 5-Sep-2004 5,000,000 Wind Storm 13-Sep-1999 3,000,011 Wind Storm 30-Aug-1985 1,000,000 Wind Storm 5-Sep-1996 500,000 Epidemic Jan-1993 403,000 Wind Storm 11-Feb-1994 350,000 Wind Storm 24-Aug-1992 250,055 Wind Storm 18-Sep-2003 225,000 Wind Storm 28-Aug-1993 150,000 Flood 19-Jan-1996 150,000 1889 May 31. USA, Pennsylvania, Jonestown: dam break 2,209 people died (flood) New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Newfoundland - February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. 18 May - 1980 Mount St. Helens, a volcanic peak in Washington, suffers a massive eruption losing 1,700 feet. 1927 April 20th. Mississippi, Greenville: about 500 people died, 162,000 homes were flooded and 41,000 buildings destroyed; rescue operations include 33,000 people. The Whittier Narrows Earthquake of October 1, 1987. Epicenter: 34.0°N, 118.1°W; depth: 11 km; magnitude 5.9; damage: $358 million; 8 deaths. USS Iowa explosion - 19 April 1989, an explosion of undetermined cause ripped through her Number Two sixteen-inch gun turret killing 47 crewmen. USS Pueblo, which was attacked and captured by the North Korean Navy on January 23, 1968, was the first United States Navy ship to be hijacked on the high seas by a foreign military force in over 150 years. 22 NOVEMBER 1975: The U.S. aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) collided with the cruiser USS Belknap (CG-26) in rough seas at night during air exercises in the Mediterranean Sea off Sicily. Seven sailors killed aboard USS BELKNAP. USAir Flight 427 crash - 08 SEP 1994 - All 132 people on board were killed. On July 19, 1989, Crash of United Flight 232 at the Sioux City airport at 3:55 p.m. 184 people survived Sioux City crash; 112 died. 1928 March 12th. USA, Los Angeles area: collapse of the San Francis Dam, estimated 450 people died, 900 buildings were destroyed, 300 houses damaged and 24,000 acres of agricultural land was devastated (flood) 1937 January 22nd. USA, Ohio & Mississippi River Valleys in Kentucky / Ohio: cities like Louisville and cincinnati were under water, nearly one million people became homeless, property damage estimated over 400 million, 380 people died (flood) 1976 July 31st. USA, Colorado, Big Thompson Canyon River: rain storm produced a 20-foot high flash flood over a 25-mile stretch of the canyon; 418 buildings were destroyed, hundreds of people injured and 139 people died August 1, 1993. USA, Midwest / Mississippi: worst flooding in recorded history, 38,000 homes damaged or destroyed, 20 million acres of farmland under water. Ve/Ve/Ve October 4, 1998. USA, Kansas, Kansas City:severe flash floods caused by heavy rain, city had no flood reaction plan, 12 people died. Ve/Mo/Ke February 26, 1993, a massive explosion occurred in the public parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York. Ve/Ve/Ve April 19, 1995, around 9:03 a.m., just after parents dropped their children off at day care at the Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, the unthinkable happened. A massive bomb inside a rental truck exploded, blowing half of the nine-story building into oblivion. Ve/Ve/Sa At 11:38 a.m. EST on January 28, 1986, Space Shuttle Challenger lifted off from the launch pad 39B at Cape Canaveral's Kennedy Space Center. Seven astronauts were lost 73 seconds after launch when Space Shuttle Challenger exploded. Me/Sa/Ju USS Stark (FFG-31), She is remembered for the incident of May 17, 1987 when she was struck by two Exocet missiles from an Iraqi Mirage fighter during the Iran-Iraq War. The fighter had taken off from Shaibah at 20:00 and had flown south into the Persian Gulf. Shortly after being routinely challenged by the frigate at around 22:10 the fighter fired two Exocet ASM missiles. Thirty-seven crew were killed and twenty-one were injured. Ke/Ve/Sa August 7, 1998, bombing of the American Embassy in Nairobi. 80 killed. Ve/Mo/Me Crash: loss of vertical stabilizer and shedding of both engines on American Airlines Airbus Model 300-600, followed by crash into residential area shortly after takeoff from JFK International. Deaths: 265. Belle Harbor, NY, USA. (November 12, 2001) - Ve/Ra/Me Fire in wooden building and evacuation problems: The Station (nightclub). Deaths: 100. West Warwick, RI, USA. (Feb. 27, 2003) - Ve/Ra/Ma Blackout: of Northeast US electrical grid. Report pending. People affected: Est. 30-50 million. (August 14, 2003) - Ve/Ju/Ju Sultana (American steamboat): boiler explosion Mississippi River, near Memphis, Tennessee, United States. April 27, 1865. Deaths: at least 1,800 (ex-prisoners, crew and commercial passengers). July 17, 1996. Mysterious crash of TWA Flight 800. 230 passengers died. New London School: gas explosion. New London, Texas, United States. March 18, 1937. Deaths: 298 (students and teachers) Texas City docks: explosions of two fertilizer-carrying ships. Texas City, Texas, United States. April 16-17, 1947. Deaths: 580 (workers, firefighters and bystanders) Thresher (American submarine): sunk. Atlantic Ocean. April 10, 1963. Deaths: 129 (crew and contractor personnel) Canadian-United States Eastern Interconnection (CANUSE): blackout lasting up to 13 hours, affecting 30 million people Northeast United States. November 9, 1965. Eastern Airlines L-1011 airliner: crash into swamp at night. Everglades, Florida, United States. December 29, 1972. Deaths: 101 (crew and passengers) Hyatt Regency Hotel: collapse of two skywalks during “tea dance”. Kansas City, Missouri, United States. July 17, 1981. Deaths: 114. Galaxy Airlines Electra II airliner: crash during emergency return to airport. Reno, Nevada, United States. January 21, 1985. Deaths: 70 Pacific Engineering & Production Co. of Nevada (PEPCON): fire and explosion of 4,500 tons of ammonium perchlorate Henderson, Nevada, United States. May 4, 1988. Deaths: 2 (managers on site) Phillips 66 Co. Houston Chemical Complex: explosion and fire. Pasadena, Texas, United States. October 23, 1989. Deaths: 23 ValuJet DC-9 airliner: crash following fire in cargo compartment. Everglades, Florida, United States. May 1, 1996. Deaths: 110 (crew and passengers) May 28, 1977, a devastating fire swept through the Beverly Hills Supper Club in Southgate, Ky. The fire was discovered shortly before 9 p.m. and burned most of the night. It killed 165 people. Buffalo Creek, West Virginia - February 26, 1972. Dam breaks causing flood. 118 people die; 7 were missing. 4,000 homeless; 500 homes destroyed; $50 million in property damage. February 3, 1943. S.S. Dorchester is sunk. 904 people aboard. 605 dead. New York, New York - March 25, 1911. Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire. 146 dead. Boston, Massachusetts - November 28, 1942. Coconut Grove nightclub fire. Kills 492. Injures 166. Willamette Valley, Oregon - Columbus Day Storm, October 12, 1960. Forty-two people killed. $170 million property damage. Rapid City, South Dakota - June 9 & 10, 1972. Floods killed 238 persons; left 1,300 families homeless; caused over $100 million in property damage. Los Angeles, California - February 9, 1971. Earthquake kills 50. Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania - June 23, 1972. Hurricane Agnes creates flood. Six people killed. 80,000 evacuated, damage to 25,000 homes and destruction of 400 homes. Property damage estimated at over $2 billion. Southgate, Kentucky - May 28, 1977 - Beverly Hills Supper Club fire. Kills 165. Injures 60 1968 May 27, The US nuclear submarine Scorpion was lost. Best wishes, satva Jorge Angelino Rua da Sociedade Filarmónica Perpétua Azeitonense, 292925-598 AzeitãoPortugal jorge.angelino tel: mobile: 210813674963916784 Add me to your address book... 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