Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Mr. Maguire, The world wide phenomenon can be seen only through a world chart and not through the chart of a particular country. As Saturn was weak apprehensions about or lack of confidence about the production of products (oil) ruled by Saturn is one of the reasons for the soaring prices of oil in the world market. Take an example of India, it being net importer for majority of its demand of crude oil was badly affected by the price rise and had to spend more on the import bill. In the chart of India it was evident as nodal stationary influence was on its ascending degree and the lord of the 12th house ruling expenses was also under the stationary influence of Ketu from the sixth house. The exact stationary transit was influencing the Indian chart from 15th September, 2004, to 15 December, 2004. Best wishes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Dear Professor, Thank you for the example. Given what you say about the weak Saturn and the example of India wouldn't it follow that all countries would experience some discomfort from the weakness of transit Saturn more or less depending on the strengh of Saturn in their respective charts as well as other transit effects(like India). For example USA Natal saturn (Grimes) was not afflicted during this time nor was there any other serious affliction going on so even though gas/oil prices soared it didn't seem to have much effect on the USA economy/spending. John > " SIHA " <siha > SAMVA > Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:01:54 +0530 > <SAMVA > > Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > > > > Mr. Maguire, > > The world wide phenomenon can be seen only through a world chart and not > through the chart of a particular country. > > As Saturn was weak apprehensions about or lack of confidence about the > production of products (oil) ruled by Saturn is one of the reasons for the > soaring prices of oil in the world market. > > Take an example of India, it being net importer for majority of its demand > of crude oil was badly affected by the price rise and had to spend more on > the import bill. In the chart of India it was evident as nodal stationary > influence was on its ascending degree and the lord of the 12th house ruling > expenses was also under the stationary influence of Ketu from the sixth > house. The exact stationary transit was influencing the Indian chart from > 15th September, 2004, to 15 December, 2004. > > Best wishes, > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hello Mr. Maguire, You are right. The weakness of the slow moving planet like Saturn certainly influences all countries in one way or the other. Best wishes, www.YourNetAstrologer.com A-105 South City-II Gurgaon-122101, INDIA. Ph: 91-124-2219240 91-9811016333 - " JOHN MAGUIRE " <jam939 <SAMVA > Monday, January 31, 2005 10:45 PM Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > Dear Professor, > > Thank you for the example. Given what you say about the weak Saturn and the > example of India wouldn't it follow that all countries would experience some > discomfort from the weakness of transit Saturn more or less depending on the > strengh of Saturn in their respective charts as well as other transit > effects(like India). For example USA Natal saturn (Grimes) was not afflicted > during this time nor was there any other serious affliction going on so even > though gas/oil prices soared it didn't seem to have much effect on the USA > economy/spending. > > John > > > " SIHA " <siha > > SAMVA > > Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:01:54 +0530 > > <SAMVA > > > Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > > > > > > > > Mr. Maguire, > > > > The world wide phenomenon can be seen only through a world chart and not > > through the chart of a particular country. > > > > As Saturn was weak apprehensions about or lack of confidence about the > > production of products (oil) ruled by Saturn is one of the reasons for the > > soaring prices of oil in the world market. > > > > Take an example of India, it being net importer for majority of its demand > > of crude oil was badly affected by the price rise and had to spend more on > > the import bill. In the chart of India it was evident as nodal stationary > > influence was on its ascending degree and the lord of the 12th house ruling > > expenses was also under the stationary influence of Ketu from the sixth > > house. The exact stationary transit was influencing the Indian chart from > > 15th September, 2004, to 15 December, 2004. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hello Mr. Maguire, I think you are doing research on one of the proposed charts for US. If you read the background of this chart as published in the journal of ACVA, then you will know how this chart was tested and it may help you. The same chart has been published by Mr. Christopher Kevill in the January, 2005, issue of Express Star Teller. Then there are other proposed charts for US. ACVA journals may provide you info on these. Best wishes, www.YourNetAstrologer.com A-105 South City-II Gurgaon-122101, INDIA. Ph: 91-124-2219240 91-9811016333 - " JOHN MAGUIRE " <jam939 <SAMVA > Monday, January 31, 2005 10:45 PM Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > Dear Professor, > > Thank you for the example. Given what you say about the weak Saturn and the > example of India wouldn't it follow that all countries would experience some > discomfort from the weakness of transit Saturn more or less depending on the > strengh of Saturn in their respective charts as well as other transit > effects(like India). For example USA Natal saturn (Grimes) was not afflicted > during this time nor was there any other serious affliction going on so even > though gas/oil prices soared it didn't seem to have much effect on the USA > economy/spending. > > John > > > " SIHA " <siha > > SAMVA > > Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:01:54 +0530 > > <SAMVA > > > Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > > > > > > > > Mr. Maguire, > > > > The world wide phenomenon can be seen only through a world chart and not > > through the chart of a particular country. > > > > As Saturn was weak apprehensions about or lack of confidence about the > > production of products (oil) ruled by Saturn is one of the reasons for the > > soaring prices of oil in the world market. > > > > Take an example of India, it being net importer for majority of its demand > > of crude oil was badly affected by the price rise and had to spend more on > > the import bill. In the chart of India it was evident as nodal stationary > > influence was on its ascending degree and the lord of the 12th house ruling > > expenses was also under the stationary influence of Ketu from the sixth > > house. The exact stationary transit was influencing the Indian chart from > > 15th September, 2004, to 15 December, 2004. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 - " SIHA " <siha <SAMVA > Monday, January 31, 2005 12:27 PM Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > > > Hello Mr. Maguire, > > You are right. The weakness of the slow moving planet like Saturn certainly > influences all countries in one way or the other. > > Best wishes, > > > www.YourNetAstrologer.com > A-105 South City-II > Gurgaon-122101, > INDIA. > Ph: 91-124-2219240 > 91-9811016333 > > - > " JOHN MAGUIRE " <jam939 > <SAMVA > > Monday, January 31, 2005 10:45 PM > Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > > > > Dear Professor, > > > > Thank you for the example. Given what you say about the weak Saturn and > the > > example of India wouldn't it follow that all countries would experience > some > > discomfort from the weakness of transit Saturn more or less depending on > the > > strengh of Saturn in their respective charts as well as other transit > > effects(like India). For example USA Natal saturn (Grimes) was not > afflicted > > during this time nor was there any other serious affliction going on so > even > > though gas/oil prices soared it didn't seem to have much effect on the USA > > economy/spending. > > > > John > > > > > " SIHA " <siha > > > SAMVA > > > Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:01:54 +0530 > > > <SAMVA > > > > Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Maguire, > > > > > > The world wide phenomenon can be seen only through a world chart and not > > > through the chart of a particular country. > > > > > > As Saturn was weak apprehensions about or lack of confidence about the > > > production of products (oil) ruled by Saturn is one of the reasons for > the > > > soaring prices of oil in the world market. > > > > > > Take an example of India, it being net importer for majority of its > demand > > > of crude oil was badly affected by the price rise and had to spend more > on > > > the import bill. In the chart of India it was evident as nodal > stationary > > > influence was on its ascending degree and the lord of the 12th house > ruling > > > expenses was also under the stationary influence of Ketu from the sixth > > > house. The exact stationary transit was influencing the Indian chart > from > > > 15th September, 2004, to 15 December, 2004. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hello Professor Choudry, John Maguire & Group RE: Chris Kevill I've had the pleasure of corresponding with Chris Kevill in recent months on the matter of the true identity of the birth chart for the USA. Not having the benefit of having read what he has contributed to the Journal of ACVA, I can relate that Chris was as of last year favoring a time of 6:40 pm on July 4, 1776. A not unrealistic choice given that the historical record indicates that the text of the Declaration was adopted at the end of the afternoon session, as early as the Sibly Chart of 5:10 pm and as late as the Kelleher Chart of 6:30 pm. However, acknowledging this much, is not to necessarily believe that the USA was born on July 4th. My researches demonstrate that it clearly wasn't; and, if I may, I don't need an astrologer to convince me why it wasn't so on that historic day. The historical record trumps astrological induction. FULL STOP While I am not unaware of just how controversial the subject of the USA birth chart is among mundane astrologers of all stripes: Jyotish, Fagan-Allen, Tropical; I just wish to declare that I joined SAMVA group because I discovered thru AstroDataBank.com that the SAMVA Group's moderator, Jorge, had researched the matter in question and had settled on a time moment in the late afternoon of July 2, 1776. (Presently, the preferred rectified time moment is 4:48 pm.) On the basis purely of historical analysis coupled with the published work of the UK astrologer David Ovason, specifically his THE MASONS AND THE BUILDING OF WASHINGTON, DC. I came to the same conclusion as Jorge: the UNITED STATES born late afternoon, July 2, 1776. Following on my own research David Ovason has convinced me that the American Masons of that era were practicing a "fixed star" tropical astrology: while they were undoubtedly mindful that the first three weeks of July 1776 found Mercury Retrograde (not best for a nation's start), this did not deter them; what was of paramount importance was that the SUN @ 19 degrees Gemini was conjunct SIRIUS @ 19 degrees Gemini. The cosmically auspicious dates to agree to adopt Independency, which was to adopt Sovereignty, which was to foster the moment of birth of the UNITED STATES ...were July 1st and 2nd. The vote failed on the 1st; passed on the 2nd. Please read Ovason; you will be convinced, I assure you. In summary however harsh: All other dates are without historical merit when judged by the commonly accepted canons of political science and constitutional law. The considerations can be elaborated at another time. For now I will just use one illustration from "material", not "formal", logic. For any of the time moments proposed for July 4th, according to the implied logic of its proponents, one is supposed to believe that the Declaration of Independence, when the final letter of the Text was adopted that day, constituted in-and-of-itself on completion the birth moment of the UNITED STATES...And for them it must have been so, in flagrant disregard of the most obvious of facts, that the very document in question was written by the UNITED STATES in General Congress Assembled (delegated, of course, thru a Committee headed by Ben Franklin, in which committee most of the work was done by Thomas Jefferson). One ought to wonder: Have these proponents stopped long enough to read the document FROM THE TOP ??.......The logical contradiction in the arguments for July 4th is exquisite: when confronted with the logically indisputable fact that the UNITED STATES must have already existed in order for the UNITED STATES to have written at the top of the Declaration..."...UNITED STATES in General Congress Assembled". And of course, the UNITED STATES did already exist, for two whole days, from the late afternoon of July 2, 1776. The SAMVA group chart for the U.S. represents the results the best of practice in mundane astrology. Let's not get confused chasing the silly prepossessions of some mythical consensus of "astrologers". Let the debate focus on the choice of time moment in rectification for July 2, 1776; it's regrettable that Jorge appears to working that problem all alone. P.S.: As history has shown: Jesus Christ was NOT born on the date of the annual holiday that celebrates his birth. Neither was the UNITED STATES. Best wishes to all John T W B SIHA <siha wrote: Hello Mr. Maguire,I think you are doing research on one of the proposed charts for US. If youread the background of this chart as published in the journal of ACVA, thenyou will know how this chart was tested and it may help you.The same chart has been published by Mr. Christopher Kevill in the January,2005, issue of Express Star Teller.Then there are other proposed charts for US. ACVA journals may provide youinfo on these.Best wishes,www.YourNetAstrologer.comA-105 South City-IIGurgaon-122101,INDIA.Ph: 91-124-2219240 91-9811016333-"JOHN MAGUIRE" <jam939<SAMVA >Monday, January 31, 2005 10:45 PMRe: Transit Influences - crude oil> Dear Professor,>> Thank you for the example. Given what you say about the weak Saturn andthe> example of India wouldn't it follow that all countries would experiencesome> discomfort from the weakness of transit Saturn more or less depending onthe> strengh of Saturn in their respective charts as well as other transit> effects(like India). For example USA Natal saturn (Grimes) was notafflicted> during this time nor was there any other serious affliction going on soeven> though gas/oil prices soared it didn't seem to have much effect on the USA> economy/spending.>> John>> > "SIHA" <siha> > SAMVA > > Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:01:54 +0530> > <SAMVA >> > Re: Transit Influences - crude oil> >> >> >> > Mr. Maguire,> >> > The world wide phenomenon can be seen only through a world chart and not> > through the chart of a particular country.> >> > As Saturn was weak apprehensions about or lack of confidence about the> > production of products (oil) ruled by Saturn is one of the reasons forthe> > soaring prices of oil in the world market.> >> > Take an example of India, it being net importer for majority of itsdemand> > of crude oil was badly affected by the price rise and had to spend moreon> > the import bill. In the chart of India it was evident as nodalstationary> > influence was on its ascending degree and the lord of the 12th houseruling> > expenses was also under the stationary influence of Ketu from the sixth> > house. The exact stationary transit was influencing the Indian chartfrom> > 15th September, 2004, to 15 December, 2004.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hello dear Mr. John T W B, Your contribution to SAMVA is really notably for bringing authenticity to mundane charts for various countries based on the historical facts. Rectification of any chart, however, takes some time when some future incidents are predicted on the basis of a particular chart. To me Mr. John Maguire appeared to be doing research on a particular chart for which I made him some suggestion to consider other views in this matter - which include the chart (brought up by Mr. Jorge Angelino)considering the historical facts that the UNITED STATES born late afternoon, July 2, 1776. Best wishes, www.YourNetAstrologer.com A-105 South City-II Gurgaon-122101, INDIA. Ph: 91-124-2219240 91-9811016333 - " John T W B " <jtwbjakarta <SAMVA > Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:47 AM Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > Hello Professor Choudry, John Maguire & Group > > RE: Chris Kevill > > I've had the pleasure of corresponding with Chris Kevill in recent months on the matter of the true identity of the birth chart for the USA. Not having the benefit of having read what he has contributed to the Journal of ACVA, I can relate that Chris was as of last year favoring a time of 6:40 pm on July 4, 1776. A not unrealistic choice given that the historical record indicates that the text of the Declaration was adopted at the end of the afternoon session, as early as the Sibly Chart of 5:10 pm and as late as the Kelleher Chart of 6:30 pm. However, acknowledging this much, is not to necessarily believe that the USA was born on July 4th. My researches demonstrate that it clearly wasn't; and, if I may, I don't need an astrologer to convince me why it wasn't so on that historic day. The historical record trumps astrological induction. FULL STOP > > While I am not unaware of just how controversial the subject of the USA birth chart is among mundane astrologers of all stripes: Jyotish, Fagan-Allen, Tropical; I just wish to declare that I joined SAMVA group because I discovered thru AstroDataBank.com that the SAMVA Group's moderator, Jorge, had researched the matter in question and had settled on a time moment in the late afternoon of July 2, 1776. (Presently, the preferred rectified time moment is 4:48 pm.) > > On the basis purely of historical analysis coupled with the published work of the UK astrologer David Ovason, specifically his THE MASONS AND THE BUILDING OF WASHINGTON, DC. I came to the same conclusion as Jorge: the UNITED STATES born late afternoon, July 2, 1776. Following on my own research David Ovason has convinced me that the American Masons of that era were practicing a " fixed star " tropical astrology: while they were undoubtedly mindful that the first three weeks of July 1776 found Mercury Retrograde (not best for a nation's start), this did not deter them; what was of paramount importance was that the SUN @ 19 degrees Gemini was conjunct SIRIUS @ 19 degrees Gemini. The cosmically auspicious dates to agree to adopt Independency, which was to adopt Sovereignty, which was to foster the moment of birth of the UNITED STATES ...were July 1st and 2nd. The vote failed on the 1st; passed on the 2nd. Please read Ovason; you will be convinced, I assure you. > > In summary however harsh: All other dates are without historical merit when judged by the commonly accepted canons of political science and constitutional law. The considerations can be elaborated at another time. For now I will just use one illustration from " material " , not " formal " , logic. For any of the time moments proposed for July 4th, according to the implied logic of its proponents, one is supposed to believe that the Declaration of Independence, when the final letter of the Text was adopted that day, constituted in-and-of-itself on completion the birth moment of the UNITED STATES...And for them it must have been so, in flagrant disregard of the most obvious of facts, that the very document in question was written by the UNITED STATES in General Congress Assembled (delegated, of course, thru a Committee headed by Ben Franklin, in which committee most of the work was done by Thomas Jefferson). One ought to wonder: Have these proponents stopped long enough to read the document > FROM THE TOP ??.......The logical contradiction in the arguments for July 4th is exquisite: when confronted with the logically indisputable fact that the UNITED STATES must have already existed in order for the UNITED STATES to have written at the top of the Declaration... " ...UNITED STATES in General Congress Assembled " . And of course, the UNITED STATES did already exist, for two whole days, from the late afternoon of July 2, 1776. > > The SAMVA group chart for the U.S. represents the results the best of practice in mundane astrology. Let's not get confused chasing the silly prepossessions of some mythical consensus of " astrologers " . > > Let the debate focus on the choice of time moment in rectification for July 2, 1776; it's regrettable that Jorge appears to working that problem all alone. > > P.S.: As history has shown: Jesus Christ was NOT born on the date of the annual holiday that celebrates his birth. Neither was the UNITED STATES. > > Best wishes to all > > John T W B > SIHA <siha wrote: > Hello Mr. Maguire, > > I think you are doing research on one of the proposed charts for US. If you > read the background of this chart as published in the journal of ACVA, then > you will know how this chart was tested and it may help you. > > The same chart has been published by Mr. Christopher Kevill in the January, > 2005, issue of Express Star Teller. > > Then there are other proposed charts for US. ACVA journals may provide you > info on these. > > Best wishes, > > > www.YourNetAstrologer.com > A-105 South City-II > Gurgaon-122101, > INDIA. > Ph: 91-124-2219240 > 91-9811016333 > > - > " JOHN MAGUIRE " <jam939 > <SAMVA > > Monday, January 31, 2005 10:45 PM > Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > > > > Dear Professor, > > > > Thank you for the example. Given what you say about the weak Saturn and > the > > example of India wouldn't it follow that all countries would experience > some > > discomfort from the weakness of transit Saturn more or less depending on > the > > strengh of Saturn in their respective charts as well as other transit > > effects(like India). For example USA Natal saturn (Grimes) was not > afflicted > > during this time nor was there any other serious affliction going on so > even > > though gas/oil prices soared it didn't seem to have much effect on the USA > > economy/spending. > > > > John > > > > > " SIHA " <siha > > > SAMVA > > > Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:01:54 +0530 > > > <SAMVA > > > > Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Maguire, > > > > > > The world wide phenomenon can be seen only through a world chart and not > > > through the chart of a particular country. > > > > > > As Saturn was weak apprehensions about or lack of confidence about the > > > production of products (oil) ruled by Saturn is one of the reasons for > the > > > soaring prices of oil in the world market. > > > > > > Take an example of India, it being net importer for majority of its > demand > > > of crude oil was badly affected by the price rise and had to spend more > on > > > the import bill. In the chart of India it was evident as nodal > stationary > > > influence was on its ascending degree and the lord of the 12th house > ruling > > > expenses was also under the stationary influence of Ketu from the sixth > > > house. The exact stationary transit was influencing the Indian chart > from > > > 15th September, 2004, to 15 December, 2004. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Dear Professor Choudry, Thanks for the kind reply. With my best wishes, JohnSIHA <siha wrote: Hello dear Mr. John T W B,Your contribution to SAMVA is really notably for bringing authenticity tomundane charts for various countries based on the historical facts.Rectification of any chart, however, takes some time when some futureincidents are predicted on the basis of a particular chart.To me Mr. John Maguire appeared to be doing research on a particular chartfor which I made him some suggestion to consider other views in thismatter - which include the chart (brought up by Mr. JorgeAngelino)considering the historical facts that the UNITED STATES born lateafternoon, July 2, 1776.Best wishes,www.YourNetAstrologer.comA-105 South City-IIGurgaon-122101,INDIA.Ph: 91-124-2219240 91-9811016333-"John T W B" <jtwbjakarta<SAMVA >Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:47 AMRe: Transit Influences - crude oil> Hello Professor Choudry, John Maguire & Group>> RE: Chris Kevill>> I've had the pleasure of corresponding with Chris Kevill in recent monthson the matter of the true identity of the birth chart for the USA. Nothaving the benefit of having read what he has contributed to the Journal ofACVA, I can relate that Chris was as of last year favoring a time of 6:40 pmon July 4, 1776. A not unrealistic choice given that the historical recordindicates that the text of the Declaration was adopted at the end of theafternoon session, as early as the Sibly Chart of 5:10 pm and as late as theKelleher Chart of 6:30 pm. However, acknowledging this much, is not tonecessarily believe that the USA was born on July 4th. My researchesdemonstrate that it clearly wasn't; and, if I may, I don't need anastrologer to convince me why it wasn't so on that historic day. Thehistorical record trumps astrological induction. FULL STOP>> While I am not unaware of just how controversial the subject of the USAbirth chart is among mundane astrologers of all stripes: Jyotish,Fagan-Allen, Tropical; I just wish to declare that I joined SAMVA groupbecause I discovered thru AstroDataBank.com that the SAMVA Group'smoderator, Jorge, had researched the matter in question and had settled on atime moment in the late afternoon of July 2, 1776. (Presently, the preferredrectified time moment is 4:48 pm.)>> On the basis purely of historical analysis coupled with the published workof the UK astrologer David Ovason, specifically his THE MASONS AND THEBUILDING OF WASHINGTON, DC. I came to the same conclusion as Jorge: theUNITED STATES born late afternoon, July 2, 1776. Following on my ownresearch David Ovason has convinced me that the American Masons of that erawere practicing a "fixed star" tropical astrology: while they wereundoubtedly mindful that the first three weeks of July 1776 found MercuryRetrograde (not best for a nation's start), this did not deter them; whatwas of paramount importance was that the SUN @ 19 degrees Gemini wasconjunct SIRIUS @ 19 degrees Gemini. The cosmically auspicious dates toagree to adopt Independency, which was to adopt Sovereignty, which was tofoster the moment of birth of the UNITED STATES ...were July 1st and 2nd.The vote failed on the 1st; passed on the 2nd. Please read Ovason; you willbe convinced, I assure you.>> In summary however harsh: All other dates are without historical meritwhen judged by the commonly accepted canons of political science andconstitutional law. The considerations can be elaborated at another time.For now I will just use one illustration from "material", not "formal",logic. For any of the time moments proposed for July 4th, according to theimplied logic of its proponents, one is supposed to believe that theDeclaration of Independence, when the final letter of the Text was adoptedthat day, constituted in-and-of-itself on completion the birth moment of theUNITED STATES...And for them it must have been so, in flagrant disregard ofthe most obvious of facts, that the very document in question was written bythe UNITED STATES in General Congress Assembled (delegated, of course, thrua Committee headed by Ben Franklin, in which committee most of the work wasdone by Thomas Jefferson). One ought to wonder: Have these proponentsstopped long enough to read the document> FROM THE TOP ??.......The logical contradiction in the arguments for July4th is exquisite: when confronted with the logically indisputable fact thatthe UNITED STATES must have already existed in order for the UNITED STATESto have written at the top of the Declaration..."...UNITED STATES in GeneralCongress Assembled". And of course, the UNITED STATES did already exist, fortwo whole days, from the late afternoon of July 2, 1776.>> The SAMVA group chart for the U.S. represents the results the best ofpractice in mundane astrology. Let's not get confused chasing the sillyprepossessions of some mythical consensus of "astrologers".>> Let the debate focus on the choice of time moment in rectification forJuly 2, 1776; it's regrettable that Jorge appears to working that problemall alone.>> P.S.: As history has shown: Jesus Christ was NOT born on the date of theannual holiday that celebrates his birth. Neither was the UNITED STATES.>> Best wishes to all>> John T W B>>>>>>>> SIHA <siha wrote:> Hello Mr. Maguire,>> I think you are doing research on one of the proposed charts for US. Ifyou> read the background of this chart as published in the journal of ACVA,then> you will know how this chart was tested and it may help you.>> The same chart has been published by Mr. Christopher Kevill in theJanuary,> 2005, issue of Express Star Teller.>> Then there are other proposed charts for US. ACVA journals may provide you> info on these.>> Best wishes,>> > www.YourNetAstrologer.com> A-105 South City-II> Gurgaon-122101,> INDIA.> Ph: 91-124-2219240> 91-9811016333>> -> "JOHN MAGUIRE" <jam939> <SAMVA >> Monday, January 31, 2005 10:45 PM> Re: Transit Influences - crude oil>>> > Dear Professor,> >> > Thank you for the example. Given what you say about the weak Saturn and> the> > example of India wouldn't it follow that all countries would experience> some> > discomfort from the weakness of transit Saturn more or less depending on> the> > strengh of Saturn in their respective charts as well as other transit> > effects(like India). For example USA Natal saturn (Grimes) was not> afflicted> > during this time nor was there any other serious affliction going on so> even> > though gas/oil prices soared it didn't seem to have much effect on theUSA> > economy/spending.> >> > John> >> > > "SIHA" <siha> > > SAMVA > > > Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:01:54 +0530> > > To: <SAMVA >> > > Re: Transit Influences - crude oil> > >> > >> > >> > > Mr. Maguire,> > >> > > The world wide phenomenon can be seen only through a world chart andnot> > > through the chart of a particular country.> > >> > > As Saturn was weak apprehensions about or lack of confidence aboutthe> > > production of products (oil) ruled by Saturn is one of the reasons for> the> > > soaring prices of oil in the world market.> > >> > > Take an example of India, it being net importer for majority of its> demand> > > of crude oil was badly affected by the price rise and had to spendmore> on> > > the import bill. In the chart of India it was evident as nodal> stationary> > > influence was on its ascending degree and the lord of the 12th house> ruling> > > expenses was also under the stationary influence of Ketu from thesixth> > > house. The exact stationary transit was influencing the Indian chart> from> > > 15th September, 2004, to 15 December, 2004.> > >> > > Best wishes,> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I agree with . Thankyou John for your MASSIVE contributions ! ciao best regards IverSIHA <siha wrote: Hello dear Mr. John T W B,Your contribution to SAMVA is really notably for bringing authenticity tomundane charts for various countries based on the historical facts. Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Dear John, Thank you for your e-mail. Your help in all this has been really precious. We are now in the hands of Time…as always! Only Time can show us the truth regarding the US chart. It is just a matter of being alert. Best wishes, Jorge John T W B [jtwbjakarta] terça-feira, 1 de Fevereiro de 2005 02:18 SAMVA Re: Transit Influences - crude oil Hello Professor Choudry, John Maguire & Group RE: Chris Kevill I've had the pleasure of corresponding with Chris Kevill in recent months on the matter of the true identity of the birth chart for the USA. Not having the benefit of having read what he has contributed to the Journal of ACVA, I can relate that Chris was as of last year favoring a time of 6:40 pm on July 4, 1776. A not unrealistic choice given that the historical record indicates that the text of the Declaration was adopted at the end of the afternoon session, as early as the Sibly Chart of 5:10 pm and as late as the Kelleher Chart of 6:30 pm. However, acknowledging this much, is not to necessarily believe that the USA was born on July 4th. My researches demonstrate that it clearly wasn't; and, if I may, I don't need an astrologer to convince me why it wasn't so on that historic day. The historical record trumps astrological induction. FULL STOP While I am not unaware of just how controversial the subject of the USA birth chart is among mundane astrologers of all stripes: Jyotish, Fagan-Allen, Tropical; I just wish to declare that I joined SAMVA group because I discovered thru AstroDataBank.com that the SAMVA Group's moderator, Jorge, had researched the matter in question and had settled on a time moment in the late afternoon of July 2, 1776. (Presently, the preferred rectified time moment is 4:48 pm.) On the basis purely of historical analysis coupled with the published work of the UK astrologer David Ovason, specifically his THE MASONS AND THE BUILDING OF WASHINGTON, DC. I came to the same conclusion as Jorge: the UNITED STATES born late afternoon, July 2, 1776. Following on my own research David Ovason has convinced me that the American Masons of that era were practicing a " fixed star " tropical astrology: while they were undoubtedly mindful that the first three weeks of July 1776 found Mercury Retrograde (not best for a nation's start), this did not deter them; what was of paramount importance was that the SUN @ 19 degrees Gemini was conjunct SIRIUS @ 19 degrees Gemini. The cosmically auspicious dates to agree to adopt Independency, which was to adopt Sovereignty, which was to foster the moment of birth of the UNITED STATES ...were July 1st and 2nd. The vote failed on the 1st; passed on the 2nd. Please read Ovason; you will be convinced, I assure you. In summary however harsh: All other dates are without historical merit when judged by the commonly accepted canons of political science and constitutional law. The considerations can be elaborated at another time. For now I will just use one illustration from " material " , not " formal " , logic. For any of the time moments proposed for July 4th, according to the implied logic of its proponents, one is supposed to believe that the Declaration of Independence, when the final letter of the Text was adopted that day, constituted in-and-of-itself on completion the birth moment of the UNITED STATES...And for them it must have been so, in flagrant disregard of the most obvious of facts, that the very document in question was written by the UNITED STATES in General Congress Assembled (delegated, of course, thru a Committee headed by Ben Franklin, in which committee most of the work was done by Thomas Jefferson). One ought to wonder: Have these proponents stopped long enough to read the document FROM THE TOP ??.......The logical contradiction in the arguments for July 4th is exquisite: when confronted with the logically indisputable fact that the UNITED STATES must have already existed in order for the UNITED STATES to have written at the top of the Declaration... " ...UNITED STATES in General Congress Assembled " . And of course, the UNITED STATES did already exist, for two whole days, from the late afternoon of July 2, 1776. The SAMVA group chart for the U.S. represents the results the best of practice in mundane astrology. Let's not get confused chasing the silly prepossessions of some mythical consensus of " astrologers " . Let the debate focus on the choice of time moment in rectification for July 2, 1776; it's regrettable that Jorge appears to working that problem all alone. P.S.: As history has shown: Jesus Christ was NOT born on the date of the annual holiday that celebrates his birth. Neither was the UNITED STATES. Best wishes to all John T W B SIHA <siha wrote: Hello Mr. Maguire, I think you are doing research on one of the proposed charts for US. If you read the background of this chart as published in the journal of ACVA, then you will know how this chart was tested and it may help you. The same chart has been published by Mr. Christopher Kevill in the January, 2005, issue of Express Star Teller. Then there are other proposed charts for US. ACVA journals may provide you info on these. Best wishes, www.YourNetAstrologer.com A-105 South City-II Gurgaon-122101, INDIA. Ph: 91-124-2219240 91-9811016333 - " JOHN MAGUIRE " <jam939 <SAMVA > Monday, January 31, 2005 10:45 PM Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > Dear Professor, > > Thank you for the example. Given what you say about the weak Saturn and the > example of India wouldn't it follow that all countries would experience some > discomfort from the weakness of transit Saturn more or less depending on the > strengh of Saturn in their respective charts as well as other transit > effects(like India). For example USA Natal saturn (Grimes) was not afflicted > during this time nor was there any other serious affliction going on so even > though gas/oil prices soared it didn't seem to have much effect on the USA > economy/spending. > > John > > > " SIHA " <siha > > SAMVA > > Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:01:54 +0530 > > <SAMVA > > > Re: Transit Influences - crude oil > > > > > > > > Mr. Maguire, > > > > The world wide phenomenon can be seen only through a world chart and not > > through the chart of a particular country. > > > > As Saturn was weak apprehensions about or lack of confidence about the > > production of products (oil) ruled by Saturn is one of the reasons for the > > soaring prices of oil in the world market. > > > > Take an example of India, it being net importer for majority of its demand > > of crude oil was badly affected by the price rise and had to spend more on > > the import bill. In the chart of India it was evident as nodal stationary > > influence was on its ascending degree and the lord of the 12th house ruling > > expenses was also under the stationary influence of Ketu from the sixth > > house. The exact stationary transit was influencing the Indian chart from > > 15th September, 2004, to 15 December, 2004. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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