Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Hello dear Mr. John TWB, I think we should change the subject of the message as US Chart. There is no ghost of any chart. When there is an uncertain situation, lot of alternatives are tried and finally the best one is adopted. So far before your expert advice was available, the efforts done by Mr. Grimes appeared to be best amongst many proposed US charts. Whatever chart is adopted for predictions, it has to prove itself with the past events and future predictions. Best wishes, www.YourNetAstrologer.com A-105 South City-II Gurgaon-122101, INDIA. Ph: 91-124-2219240 91-9811016333 - " John T W B " <jtwbjakarta <SAMVA > Friday, March 25, 2005 5:17 AM To Exorcize The Ghost Of The GRIMES CHART: March 1, 1781 > > Hi Jorge, > > Herein follows what 3 months ago I neglected to forward to you for > you files, the transcript from the Journals of the Continental > Congress for February 24, 1781 outlining the calendar of events > planned for the afternoon following the 12:00 noon ratification > signing of the Articles of Confederation on March 1, 1781, the event > which marked the birth moment of the national government of the > United States. (And to clarify for the benefit of the uninitiated, > this birth event of the American government should not be confused > with the years earlier birth of America's body-politic, on July 2, > 1776 (here, body politic as commonly understood, as " the nation " ). > > If nothing else I hope the ghost of the Grimes Chart for 3:19 pm on > March 1, 1781 can be considered finally exorcized: A Chart > wrongheaded for two crucial reasons: FIRST, March 1, 1781 is an event > arising from the birth of government under America's first > constitution, the Articles of Confederation, a constitution devised > by representatives of the already existing nation, the United States. > Therefore Grimes contention that this day is the birthday of the > nation itself is just absurd, given the obvious implication that the > already existing nation, the United States, fostered the birth of its > own government on this same day; and SECOND, Grimes' rectification > for the 3:19 pm time moment could only have been determined in a > manner not unlike that of a consummate magician, as if a rabbit > produced from a hat in a magic trick. How else to characterize a time > moment choice where there is no historical record supporting this mid- > afternoon time moment choice? So to the contrary, the record is > unambiguously clear: IT HAPPENED AT 12:00 NOON when the two State of > Maryland delegates to Congress signed the > document. > > I invite everyone to read the following excerpt from the Journals of > Congress for the Saturday before the day in question: > > JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS > SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1781 > > Congress took into consideration the report of the committee > appointed to report the mode of announcing the final ratification of > the Articles of Confederation; Whereupon, > That [on Thursday next at 12 o'Clock the final ratification of] the > Confederation of the United States of America becompleted, by the > execution thereof on the part of Maryland, at twelve o'clock on > Thursday next, and that this important event be immediately announced > to the publick,by the firing of thirteen cannon, and by the ringing > of the bells in this city, (and that the Board of War and Board of > Admiralty take order accordingly.) > That thissame (Important Event) be also communicated to the > Executives of the several States,and to the Commander-in-Chief they > be requested to proclaim it in their respective states. > That the several Ministers of these states in Europe beforthwith > informed of the complete and final ratification of the said > Confederation; and they beinstructed (ordered) tocommunicate (notify) > the same to the respective courts at which they reside. > That copies of the foregoing resolutions, with authentick information > of the completion of the said Confederation, be transmitted to the > Commander in Chief; and that he be directed topublish (announce) the > same to the Army under hisimmediate command,and to the fleet and army > of our most illustrious ally, in America. > That the like information be transmitted to the commanding officer in > the southern department, and that he be directed to announce the same > to the Army under his command. > That the Minister of France be also informed, that it is intended to > complete and ratify the said Confederation on Thursday next; and that > he be requested to make the earliest communication of the same to his > Court.1 > [Note : * This report, in the writing of George Walton, except the > portions in brackets, which are in Charles Thomson's hand, and those > in parentheses, which are in Samuel Huntington's hand, is in > thePapers of the Continental Congress, No. 23, folio 29. It is also > entered in No. 9, (History of the Confederation.) A part of the > report, but separately presented, is the following: > NOT OF RECORD > That the Congress adjourn after completing the Confederation; and the > President shall invite the Minister of France, the Speaker and > members of the General Assembly, the Vice-President and members of > the Supreme Executive Council, and the officers of the Army and Navy, > to drink a glass of wine [to] " The United States of America. " A keg > of biscuit, in the room of cake.* > [Note *: * Does it mean the Cake room.] > To be in the Hall where Congress sit. > The last six words are in James Madison's hand. > Another resolution, undated, in the writing of John Mathews, is in > No. 36, IV, folio 423, as follows: > Resolved that -- next be appointed for the Delegates of Maryland to > sign the Confederation. > That the President of the State of Pennsylvania the Minister of > France, The Vice-President Council and assembly of Pennsylvania, the > officers of the French and American Armies in this City, and all > other public officers, be particularly invited to attend the ceremony > and that the doors of the Congress chamber be opened at twelve oClock. > That the Board of War be directed to give proper orders, for > announcing the final ratification of theAmerican Confederacy of the > United States by the discharge of thirteen cannon. > That one of the Chaplains of Congressbe directed to prepare a > suitable sermon for the occasion.] > Resolved, That on Thursday next, at twelve o'clock, the final > ratification of the Confederation of the United States > of America, be announced to the public; and that the Board of War and > Board of Admiralty take order accordingly: > That this important event be communicated to the executives of the > several states: > That the several ministers of these states in Europe be informed of > the complete and final ratification of the said Confederation; and > that they be ordered to notify the same to the respective courts at > which they reside: > That it be also notified to the honorable the Minister > Plenipotentiary of France: > That information of the completion of the said Confederation be > transmitted to the Commander in Chief, and that he be directed to > announce the same to the army under his command. > > COMMENTARY: > > These thirteen UNITED STATES later devised the Articles of > Confederation (resulting from deliberations carried on between July > 12, 1776 and November 15, 1777) which Articles were finally duly > ratified by the thirteen states with the signatures of the delegates > from Maryland, the last of the thirteen states to do so, on March 1, > 1781 @ 12:00 noon in Philadelphia (N.B.: 12:00 noon being the time > moment in the officially established record, an astrologically un- > rectified time moment based on an official Continental Congressional > document dated February 22, 1781, in which document the precise time > of signing on March 1 was so stipulated and later complied with. > Please refer to the Journals of the Continental Congress for > Saturday, February 24, 1781 for the exact time and related plans for > that day. The contents of the document and the Journal's minutes for > February 24th demonstrate that the much referred to Grimes Chart for > that date's signing at the rectified time of 3:19 pm is based on an > unsubstantiated time moment, and so is proven to be fallacious by the > facts contained in the official documentary record, in the Papers of > the Continental Congress, Folio No.9. > > > FURTHER RESEARCH IN SUPPORT OF THE FOREGOING SUMMARY CONTENTIONS > REGARDING THE UNSUBSTANTIATED RECTIFICATION OF THE GRIMES CHART, > CITING THE LETTERS AND JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS, AS WELL > AS OTHER SUPPORTING REFERENCES, MAY BE FOUND IN THE EXTENDED COMMENT > OF " JOHN T W B " AT ASTRODATABANK.COM, IN THE USA FEEDBACK SECTION, > DATED NOVEMBER 16, 2004: > > > > U.S.A. AND ITS GOVT: FROM CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION TO ARTICLES OF > CONFEDERATION > > > Apropos an earlier message exchange in this Group during December > 2004 on the matter of possible American national unity before 1776, > here as a follow-up contribution is presented a brief look at the > later historic results of efforts started with the FIRST CONTINENTAL > CONGRESS convened in Philadelphia on September 05, 1774 and its > initiation of the chain of events leading up to the birth of the USA > on July 2, 1776, which birth of the American nation's sovereign > states and their " limited " union prepared the way for the later > constitutionally mandated birth of the U.S. Government on March 1, > 1781, with the completion of the signing of the Articles of > Confederation by the original 13 states, and so putting into effect > the American nation-states' first constitution. > > > For mundane astrology this writer bears in mind that there are two > major birth charts for any nation: first and foremost is the one for > the State, then that for the Government created constitutionally by > that State. In the case of the American nation there are: (1) the > chart for the birth of the sovereign body-politic; the generic STATE > (in the form of a " limited " union of States, the USA): dated July 2, > 1776, which during its first week of life comprised a pre- > constitutional " limited " union of 12 newly sovereign states of the > newly stiled UNITED STATES (then after July 9th 13 states) and (2) > the chart for the birth of the UNITED STATES' national GOVERNMENT > under the constitutional terms of the Articles of Confederation, > finally ratified on March 1, > 1781. > > > (Indispensable Scholarship: For a classic work on the meanings and > significance of the concepts: NATION, STATE and GOVERNMENT, one > should refer to John W. Burgess, Professor of Political Science and > Constitutional Law at Columbia University, his THE FOUNDATIONS OF > POLITICAL SCIENCE (1933, reprinted 1992) presents exhaustive > explanations by way of a scientific treatment, in terms of political > science and constitutional law, of the substantive differentiation of > a nation's state(s) and a nation's government.) > > > >From the start of the proceedings of the First Continental Congress, > opened on September 5, 1774, there soon followed the creation of the > formally adopted and documented CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION. Agreement to > the adoption of the related resolution of this Association was > reached shortly before 4:00 pm on October 18, 1774. Two days later, > on October 20, 1774, the resulting authenticated document was signed > by 12 of the 13 British American colonies (absent the colony of > Georgia). From that date in 1774 the Continental Congress conducted > itself under the " stile " of the UNITED COLONIES. Later on, the colony > of Georgia joined the Continental Association, on September 13, 1775, > at which time the membership of the Continental Association was > then " re-stiled " THE THIRTEEN UNITED COLONIES, to become in the > following year, at first, twelve UNITED STATES on July 2, 1776, then > thirteen UNITED STATES on July 9, 1776 when New York was duly > constituted in convention a sovereign state and resolved > to join the Union with the other twelve states of the already > established UNITED STATES. > > > This birth of the USA was first accomplished when 12 of 13 colonies > were each constitutionally authorized to direct its delegates in the > Continental Congress to formally resolve by voting for sovereign > independence and its declaration, thereby establishing, then and > there that July 2nd day in Philadelphia, the identities of these once > British American colonies as simply yet absolutely American sovereign > states, newly independent of the state of Great Britain. Their new > collective identity as the UNITED STATES, no longer the UNITED > COLONIES, was marked at the moment of the Continental Congressional > adoption of the relevant resolution initiating U.S. sovereignty, @ > 4:48 pm (SAMVA rectification) on the late afternoon of July 2, 1776, > the true birthday of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. From that moment > on this historic date the on-going civil war between the governments > of the American colonies and the colonial administration of the > Government of Great Britain was then transformed to be > a revolutionary war between the American states and George III's > State of Great Britain. On July 2nd, 1776 the break with the British > State became reality; the civil war thenceforth a > revolution. > > > (The first historic action of the then just days old " United States > in General Congress Assembled " was that of the broadside proclamation > of the Declaration of Independence, its text completed and dated on > Thursday July 4th then published on Friday July 5th. This, the > American nation's first State Document: In its practical effect, the > mundane equivalent of a birth certificate dated July 4th recording > the accomplished sovereign birth of the USA of Tuesday July 2nd, and > not as popularly misunderstood, a mystical document, " somehow " in and > of itself, occasioning a July 4th time moment of birth.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Hi Professor Naturally, with all due respect to your sage advice, I maintain the following. Mundane astrologers are bound by the apriori framework of rational discourse, as are all practitioners of the sciences. Furthermore, the mundane astrologer is not permitted ever to disregard the historical record, any more than the natal astrologer can blythely disregard the actual birth record of his client. To declare March 1, 1781 as the birth of the American nation is "absurd", as I have maintained already. All the astrological rectifying tests in the world will not make this event other than it is: i.e., the birth date of America's government. This is not unique to America. This distinction between nation and government is generically so. For an example closer to home, India as a nation was born on August 15, 1947; yet that nation's government was born years later, on on Republic Day in January 1950. The distinction between nation and government is not arbitrary. Each of these two birth charts is telling a different story, however parallactically related. It's the task of the mundane astrologer to recognize the generic difference and then explore the significances for analytical and predictive purposes. As for rectification as such, where the time record on a given date is indeterminate, then of course what you have just commented is quite indisputable. In fact, Jorge Angelino has performed just such a task on the American "nation's" chart: July 2, 1776. The authoritative historical research, at best, places the enacting moment of Congress on July 2nd 1776 no earlier than 2:00 pm and no later than 6:00 pm. The record is no more precise than this 4 hour interval. Jorge has identified 4:48 pm as the most probable, based on his standard tests. Of course, let the community criticize if they will and possibly improve upon his findings. Perhaps there is another time-moment in this 4 hour interval that improves on his work. However, the critic is not doing service to mundane astrology, by hypothetiical example, if the critic were to insist that because it may be determined that the Sun was exactly, to-the-arc-minute, conjunct the star Sirius at 6:00am that July 2nd day, and further because this critic finds some correlating events for that time, that therefore his advocacy of 6:00 am should have equal veracity with Jorge's 4:48 pm is just unfounded assertion. Let that critic argue correlations until he is blue in the face, yet he cannot change the historical fact that nothing happened in the Continental Congress at 6:00 am. The Congress opened its doors at 9:00 am. Now one may object that my illustration is unrealistically argued. Ok, so I now bring the focus closer to the actuality of recent exoperience; I would like to draw attention to the veritable hornets nest of astrologers' disputes over the mythical 4th of July birthday of the American nation. I have at my desk, for example, a book by Mr Gar Osten, entitled THE ASTROLOGICAL CHART OF THE UNITED STATES, published by Stein & Day, New York, 1976. Mr Osten maintains that the true rectified birth day and time of the American nation is not July 2nd, as maintained by the recognized authorities in the historical profession at least since the year 1850, but July 4th, and at 3:00 am no less (Yes!, in the heart-of-darkness morning, he really means "a.m."). This is surely breath-taking in its audacious disregard of the relevant history of Congress' daily schedule. Even conspiratorial Masons, possibly Hancock and Franklin on the inside of Congress, and George Clymer and Thomas Paine in the neighborhood, were wont to find a good night's sleep in that era, as Masons do in our own. But a legislative adoption at 3:00 am ???? Please !!! As background to Osten's eccentricity, Nicholas Campion tells the story of America's most prominent 19th astrologer, Luke Broughton, who cast a horoscope for 2:15 am on July 4th. Many astrologers have since folowed him, but on a road to the absurd, in utter disregard of Broughton's stated assumptions, which were not in the least scientific in pretense. Broughton obviously didn't care about science. Broughton simply maintained that the American Nation is Gemini in persona, and so he put Gemini (Tropical) on the July 4th ascendant and worked his rectification from there. Osten doesn't have even that much defense. He devotes 260 pages to all the correlating events he maintains substantiates the predictive value and integrity of the 3:00 am Jul;y 4th 1776 Chart. To characterize this as lunatic, as well as at the same tiome silly is to be charitable. To say it is unscientific is to grasp firmly the obvious. And so it goes for the rest of the prominent astrologers who mystically divine the true birth date and time-moment of the American nation to be on July 4th. These astrologers, all, are drilling a dry well; On July 4th America was already in the 2nd day of existence. History must necessarily be a stern task master for the mundane astrologer. I've been kind enough to Grimes, who obviously decided that the historical record, beyond the day of the month of March in 1781 was of no consequence in establishing "his" birthchart of the American nation. This is thoroughly unscientific in attitude. It remains, in the two major respects I summarized in my previouis message, what serious study of his arguments must disclose, "absurd". In closing I append excerpted statements from the top historians over the past 150 years, all declaring their findings that July 2nd was the birth date of America. Not one of them confused this birth date with the birth date of the national government on March 1, 1781. Grimes does so get it confused. He's not doing science; he at best painting pictures of his own imagination. No rectifying exercise can alter the falsity of his investigations. With my very best wishes to you sir (and to Haryana, of course), John EACH OF THESE 15 SCHOLARS QUOTED HERE BELOW EXPLAINS WHY JULY 2nd, not JULY 4th, IS AMERICA’s BIRTH DAY : [01] Benson J. Lossing, PICTORIAL FIELD BOOK OF THE REVOLUTION (1850); [02] Peter Force, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1855); [03] George Bancroft, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, Vol. II (1860); [04] Thomas Wentworth Higginson, THE STORY OF THE SIGNING (1876); [05] Mellen Chamberlain, THE AUTHENTICATION OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1885); [06] Herbert Friedenwald, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1904); [07] John H. Hazelton, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: IT’S HISTORY (1906); [08] John W. Burgess, SOVEREIGNTY AND LIBERTY (1890) and THE RECONCILIATION OF GOVERNMENT WITH LIBERTY (1915); [09] Carl L. Becker, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1922); [10] John C Fitzpatrick, THE SPIRIT OF THE REVOLUTION (1924); [11] Edmund C. Burnett, THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS (1941); [12] Charles Warren, FOURTH OF JULY MYTHS (1945); [13] John R. Alden, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION (1954) and A HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION (1969); [14] Katherine and John Bakeless, SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION (1969); [15] Gary Wills, INVENTING AMERICA: JEFFERSON’S DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1978); [16] John Ferling, THE ROCKY ROAD TO REVOLUTION (2004). [01] Benson J. Lossing, PICTORIAL FIELD-BOOK OF THE REVOLUTION, Vol. II (New York, 1850): “Richard Henry Lee’s resolution, declaring the colonies "free and independent states," was adopted on the 2nd of July, and that day, rather than the 4th, should be celebrated as our national anniversary. It was only the form of the Declaration, which accompanied the resolution that was adopted on the latter day. (p.280). [02] Peter Force, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: Or Notes on Lord Mahon’s History of the American Declaration of Independence. (London, 1855): “The Resolution on Independency (adopted on July 2nd) and the Declaration of Independence (adopted on July 4th) were ‘separate’ and ‘distinct’ measures before Congress, proposed at different times, considered at different times, and decided at different times; that the Resolution was the great question of American Independence—the Declaration was the announcement of Independence to the world” (p38). “The adoption of this Resolution on the 2nd of July, 1776 was the termination of all lawful authority of the King over the thirteen United Colonies —made by this act of the Congress of the thirteen United States of America” ….. ”This was the day on which was consummated the most important measure that had ever been debated in America”… ”The Declaration of Independence was adopted on July 4th by the vote of twelve States, the same that 2 days before had as Colonies passed the act of Independency.” (p.59) ….”It was also printed and circulated among the people…It was read everywhere…It was this universal diffusion of the Declaration that made the 4th of July the great festival day of the nation, instead of the 2nd day of July, the real birthday of American freedom.”(p.60). [03] Thomas Wentworth Higginson, historian, THE STORY OF THE SIGNING: 1776 published in Scribner’s Monthly, Vol. XII, No. 3 (July 1876). “John Adams was mistaken in one prediction about the birth of U.S. Independence: It is the Fourth of July, not the Second, which has been accepted by Americans as the “most memorable epocha”. This is one of the many illustrations of the fact that words as well as deeds are needful, since a great act may seem incomplete until it has been put into a fitting form of words. It was the vote of July 2nd that changed the thirteen colonies into independent States; the Declaration of Independence only promulgated the fact and assigned its reasons. Had this great proclamation turned out to be a confused or ill-written document, it would never have eclipsed in fame the original Resolution, which certainly had no such weak side.” (p.295) [04] George Bancroft, U.S. diplomat and historian, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, Vol. II in HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES from the Discovery of the American Continent, Vol. VIII (Boston, 1860): “American independence was not an act of sudden passion, nor the work of one man or one assembly. It had been discussed in every part of the country by farmers and merchants, by mechanics and planters, by the fishermen along the coast and by the backwoodsmen of the West; in town meetings and from the pulpit; at social gatherings and around the camp fires; in newspapers and in pamphlets; in county conventions and in conferences of committees; in colonial congresses and assemblies. The decision on Independency was put off only to hear the voice of the people.” (p.432). ”The July 2nd Resolution of Congress changed the old thirteen British colonies into free and independent states. It remained to set forth the reason for this act, and the principle which the new people would own as their guides” (p.462) ”The war was no longer a Civil War; Britain was become to the United States a foreign country.” (p.474) ”But the states which were henceforth independent of Britain were not independent of one another; the United States of America assumed powers over war, peace, foreign alliances, and commerce.”….. [05] Mellen. Chamberlain, historian and the Librarian, the Boston Public Library. …….. THE AUTHENTICATION OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. ……….. (Boston, 1885); a monograph reprinted from the Proceedings of the Massachusetts Historical Society, November, 1884; and reprinted again in JOHN ADAMS, THE STATESMAN OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION with Other Essays and Addresses. (Boston, 1898): “When Lee’s resolution for Independency was agreed to by the Congress on the 2nd of July, the battle had been fought and the victory won.”….”What was done on July 2nd realized the ardent wishes of the patriotic party in the thirteen colonies. Its consummated act was a notable achievement of advocacy; and the great patriot, John Adams, fondly hoped that it would be celebrated to the remotest times. But it is otherwise: the glory of the act is overshadowed by the glory of its annunciation.” (p.27). [06] Herbert Friedenwald, former Chief, Manuscript Division, Library of Congress. ….. THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: An Interpretation and an Analysis……… (New York, 1904 and reprinted 1974): “For the diffusion of popular misconception respecting the signing of the Declaration of Independence there is ample warrant, in that the two principle sources of information which should be authoritative are misleading. They are an incorrectly printed journal of the proceedings of the Congress, and a carelessly composed heading to the engrossed document.” (p.134). ”The engrossed document is itself largely responsible for the erroneous views which have been held respecting the date of the signing. Being headed by the legend, ‘In Congress, July 4th 1776’ and ending with the 56 signatures, the natural inference to be made, until better information was available, was that this official document was signed on that day. It is further misinforming in its title ‘The Unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America’, under the date July 4th; for on that day only 12 States took part in the ballot.” (p148). [07] John H. Hazelton, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: ITS HISTORY….. (New York, 1906 and reprinted 1970): “The 2nd of JULY, and NOT the 4th of JULY, therefore, was the day upon which America declared her independence…’Independence of that nation whose morning drum beat’, in the language of Daniel Webster, ’following the sun, and keeping company with the hours, circles the earth with one continuous and unbroken strain of the martial airs of England’.” (p166). [08a] John W Burgess, Founder of the Dept of Political Science, Columbia University … POLITICAL SCIENCE AND COMPARATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW: …….…... Volume I: SOVEREIGNTY AND LIBERTY (New York, 1890): “The first enduring form of the American state was the Continental Congress; there was something more on this side of the Atlantic than thirteen local governments. There was a sovereignty, a state; not in idea simply or upon paper, but in fact and in organization. The revolution was an accomplished fact before the Declaration of 1776, and so was independence. The act of the 4th of July was a notification to the world of a ‘fait accomplis’. A nation and a state did not spring into existence through that declaration, as dramatic publicists are wont to express it. Nations and States do not spring into existence. The significance of the declaration as Proclamation was this: a people testified thereby the consciousness of the fact that they had become , in the progressive development of history, one whole, separate, and adult nation, and a national state, and that they were determined to defend this natural status against the now no longer natural supremacy of a foreign state” (p.100) [08b] John W. Burgess, Founder of the Dept of Political Science, Columbia University. THE RECONCILIATION OF GOVERNMENT WITH LIBERTY (New York, 1915) “After May 1775 this second Continental Convention (The term ‘Congress’ has been too much connected with Government to designate correctly this body), began to assume constituent powers, that is, the powers of sovereignty: it created an army, a navy, a treasury and a post office…Further in May 1776, upon proposition that it create a uniform system of local Government to take the place, of the British Colonial Governments, it authorized, under form of suggestion, the inhabitants of the several Colonial Territories to create local governmental institutions for themselves on the basis of the broadest possible suffrage. Finally, after all this constructive constituent work had been done, this second Continental ‘Convention’ declared, in the name and by the authority of the good people of the Colonies, the United Colonies to be free and independent. National unity and National sovereignty PRECEDED thus the Declaration of Independence AND PRODUCED IT.” (p.294) [09] Carl Lotus Becker, a past president, American Historical Association …………… THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: A Study in the History of Political Ideas. (New York, 1922 and reprinted 1942 with a new 14 page Author’s Introduction): “A book on this subject would naturally begin by noting with some precision what the famous document purported to be. It turned out not be the formal act of separation from Great Britain, voted by Congress on July 2nd, but “A DECLARATION” of July 4th, designed to convince a “candid world” that the separation was necessary and right – in short, an argument in support of an action.” (p.ix, in the 1942 Knopf edition only). “It is often forgotten that the document which we know as the Declaration of Independence is not the official act by which the Continental Congress voted in favor of separation from Great Britain. Richard Henry Lee’s Resolution on Independency was finally voted by the Continental Congress on the 2nd of July, 1776. Strictly speaking, this was the official Declaration of Independence; and if we were a nation of antiquaries we should no doubt find an incongruity in celebrating the anniversary of our independence on the 4th of July.” (p3). ”This title of the document, ‘The Declaration of Independence’, is not, strictly speaking, the official title of the document in question. The document never knew itself, in any of its various forms, by that name. Jefferson, in making the first draft, gave it the following title: ‘A DECLARATION by the Representatives of the United States of America in General Congress assembled’. This title was retained in all copies of the Declaration, except the engrossed parchment copy with the title and stile of ‘The UNANIMOUS DECLARATION of the thirteen united States of America’. It is true, the Declaration, in the form adopted by Congress, incorporates in its final paragraph the Resolution of July 2nd; and so the Declaration may be said to be a declaration of independence, as much as in it Congress once more declared what it had already declared two days before. Nevertheless, the primary purpose of the Declaration was not to declare independence, but to proclaim to the world the reasons for declaring independence. It was intended as a formal justification of an act already accomplished.” (p 4) [10] John C. Fitzpatrick, A.M, Assistant Chief, Manuscript Division, Library of Congress THE SPIRIT OF THE REVOLUTION: New Light from Some of the Original Sources of American History. (Washington, D.C., 1924 and reprinted 1970): “The June 7, 1776 Lee Resolution on Independency was heatedly debated for nearly a month, but from the first it was apparent that eventually it would be adopted. It would be the great and final casting of the die of separation, and Congress felt that a form of announcement of that step would be needed that would be more impressive, more of an attention riveting manifesto, than the short and concise wording of Lee’s Resolution would present.” (p.04) “On July 2nd, Lee’s Resolution on Independency was adopted, and immediately thereafter Jefferson’s draft of the Declaration of independence was taken up as unfinished business in the committee of the whole, and on July 4th, 1776 the finally revised draft was agreed to by Congress as the form of the announcement that the United Colonies had, on July 2nd, become free and independent States. July 2nd is the day upon which the United States became a nation, and on July 4th we declared “to a candid world” the action taken on July 2nd. (p.07) “The Declaration of Independence was composed for the single purpose of justifying to the world the breaking away of the Colonies from Great Britain. It was designed to introduce, in the most persuasive and convincing form, the right and justice of the adoption of Richard Henry Lee’s resolution of Independency.” (p.23). [11] Edmund C. Burnett, Historical Research Dept., Carnegie Institute, Washington, D.C. THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS 1774-1789. (New York, 1941, reprinted 1964): “Thus at last did Congress, on the 2nd July, 1776 after long hesitation and not a little squirming, resolve that henceforth that the United Colonies are and should be free and independent States. To all intents and purposes this resolution was the conclusion of the whole matter.” (p.184) “The colonies through their Congress had indeed declared for independence, but the bare assertion of independence was not sufficient. The reasons therefore must be set forth explicitly, must be marshaled in a form and a manner that would not only convince Americans, but would inspire them to go to the hazard of its maintenance. Moreover, the facts must be submitted to a candid world, for the good opinion of the candid world might prove to be essential to the success of their cause. (p.185). [12] Charles Warren, FOURTH OF JULY MYTHS ……………………………………… (The William and Mary Quarterly, Third Series, Vol. II, No. 3, July 1945). “It is a singular fact that the greatest event in American history—the Declaration of Independence—has been the subject of more incorrect popular belief, more bad memory on the part of participants, and more false history than any other occurrence in our national life”…..”The first mistaken popular belief is that the Fourth of July is the anniversary of American Independence. The fact is that Independence Day was properly the day on which Congress passed the resolution which actually established our Independence; and that day was July 2nd 1776 and not July 4th, 1776.” (p.237), “The second mistaken belief, long popularly held, is that the Declaration of Independence was signed on July 4, 1776. Most Americans have seen either a facsimile or the original document now in the Library of Congress, with the names signed at the end; and most believe that it was signed on the day that the Congress on July 4, 1776 adopted it. This belief was generally held for over one hundred years. The fact is, however, that it was NOT so signed; and historians are now agreed on this point.” (p.242). [13a] John Richard Alden, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION 1775-1783 (N.Y., 1954) The delegates of the second Continental Congress in the Pennsylvania State House heard Richard Henry Lee formally propose on June 7 a resolution calling for a declaration of independence, an American confederation, and attempts to secure alliances with powers of Continental Europe.” (p.80) “At long last on July 2 the patriots, setting aside doubts and fears, at least for the moment, had pledged themselves to the creation of a new nation. …A day in July, 1776, did indeed become memorable to Americans, but it was, perversely, the fourth rather than the second day. On the fourth the Congress voted to approve that famous document, the Declaration of Independence, in which the patriots informed a candid world why they had undertaken to form the United States of America. Americans have celebrated the day on which the justification was approved, not the day of the deed.” (p.81) [13b] John R. Alden, A HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION (N.Y., 1969): “Why it is that the Americans do not, and never did, handsomely celebrate the anniversary of July 2nd, a day of so great importance in their history? Because, in faulty memory, they afterward recalled that the Patriots tore free from the shackles of tyrannical George III on July 4th”…..”The Declaration of Independence repeated and defended the Lee Resolution in such extraordinary fashion that the decision taken two days earlier on July 2nd was forgotten. The recollections of the ablest of men, even those concerning the most momentous events, are not to be trusted. The author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson himself, later remembered July 4th as the day on which America announced her freedom.” (p.241). [14] Katherine and John Bakeless, historians, SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION …. (Houghton Mifflin Company Boston, 1969). “THE FOURTH OF JULY is the day on which Americans commemorate the independence of their country. Though there are several other days we might celebrate as Independence Day, the Second Continental Congress, in 1776, formally adopted the final revision of the Declaration of Independence on the Fourth of July. The United Colonies were already independent, for Congress had passed a resolution declaring independence two days before, on July 2nd, 1776. All the formal Declaration of Independence did was to state formally to the world, and especially to the British Empire, what Congress had decided and why. … We could celebrate July 2nd, the day independence was actually voted. . It wasn’t really necessary to have the Declaration of Independence at all.” (p.1) [15] Gary Wills, Journalist & Historian, INVENTING AMERICA: JEFFERSON’S DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, (Doubleday & Co., New York, 1978). “The general structure and strategy of argument in the Declaration was affected by the petitioning process. The language of a mutual pledge at the end, and the insertion of Lee’s resolution of independence, gave the document some appearance of a charter; yet it could not be a formal compact of government, since the colonies had withheld the power to make such a pledge from their delegates…Actually there was no confusion at the time about the document’s genre. It was a paper issued subsequent to an action in order to explain that action.” (p.334) “The very precision of the term, a declaration, would lead to later confusion. This was perhaps unavoidable, since state declaration had two quite different meanings in the legal literature familiar to Jefferson’s fellows in the Congress. Declaration sometimes meant just the explanation of an act. But at other times declaring was the act itself—e.g., when a sovereign declares war. William of Orange’s Declaration was just an explanation; but one of the things that led to that document was James II’s Declaration for Liberty of Conscience of April 4, 1687—an instrument that effected the state it described. The Parliament’s Declaration of Rights was both explanatory (describing the failure of petitions to James) and declaratory of an effect (the naming of William and Mary as King and Queen), Jefferson’s Declaration is explanatory of an act; but the act itself had been declaratory. Declaring independence, like declaring war, is an act of state. That act was accomplished on July 2, when the Congress voted on Lee’s resolution that the colonies ‘are [at that very moment], and of right ought to be, free and independent states.’ The condition of independence was declared to exist, already, at that vote…Those immediately involved in the process understood, at the outset, the difference between declaring as an act and the Declaration as an explanation of that act.” (p.336) [16] John Ferling, Professor Emeritus of History, State University of West Georgia, "The Rocky Road to Revolution," SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE, (July 2004) http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian/issues04/jul04/editorsnote.html Carey Winfrey, Editor of the SMITHSONIAN, writes to introduce John Ferling: “Professor Ferling reminds us of the contentious debates of 1776 that finally led the Second Continental Congress to declare independence from England. The historic vote was taken on that fateful July 2nd, 1776”. “That's right," says Ferling. "July 2nd! I like to grill outside or picnic on July 2nd. I feel that I am remembering the proper day, and it also enables me to celebrate twice — on the real Independence Day and two days later on the contrived holiday." POSTSCRIPT U.S. Independence Celebrated on the Wrong Day? John Roachfor National Geographic News July 2, 2004 On Sunday, the Fourth of July, millions of U.S. citizens will fire up the barbeque and shoot off fireworks in celebration of the Declaration of Independence, a now-sacred document that declares the independence of what were then 13 united colonies from England. But the Continental Congress voted for the Declaration of Independence on the second of July in 1776. No one signed it until August 2, and the last signatures didn't come until the end of November. "The only thing that happened on the fourth was they approved the document," said Ronald Hoffman, director of the Omohundro Institute of Early American History and Culture at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia. Several members of the Congress who voted for independence never signed the document, and several members who signed the document, were absent when the vote was taken, Hoffman added. John Adams, the second President of the United States, was in 1776 a delegate to the Continental Congress representing the colony of Massachusetts. He wrote in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776, that "the second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epocha in the history of America." Pauline Maier, a professor of U.S. history and authority on the American Revolution, said that "in 1777, Congress didn't think of recalling the event until it was too late to celebrate the second, and the fourth became standard." And much to the chagrin of Adams—who played an active role in revising drafts of the declaration into its final form—Virginia representative Thomas Jefferson, who drafted the original, took much of the credit as the sole author of the document. "John Adams's claim to share in the glory of independence was well founded," Maier said. "He did far more than Jefferson to bring Congress to the point of approving separation from Britain." Coincidentally, Jefferson and Adams both died on July 4, 1826, 50 years after the Declaration of Independence was approved. Declaring Independence Gordon Wood, a history professor at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, said that today many U.S. citizens fail to understand the gravity of the Declaration of Independence. "Most people don't think about it too much," he said. "It's an occasion for cookouts and firecrackers, but at the time it was a big deal—breaking away from the British Empire and establishing independence." The declaration sets forth a list of grievances with the King of England, George III, that justified a breaking of ties between the colonies and the mother country. At the time, the British Empire was all-powerful. A group of colonies breaking away was an unprecedented event, Wood said. "Now Britain seems like small potatoes compared to the power of the U.S. The whole relationship has been reversed," he said. The declaration was drafted by a committee of five appointed by the Continental Congress on June 11, 1776. Members included Adams of Massachusetts, Roger Sherman of Connecticut, Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania, Robert Livingston of New York, and Jefferson of Virginia. The committee selected Jefferson to draft the document, which members of the committee revised and then submitted to the Continental Congress on June 28. The Congress tabled it. "After approving a resolution on Independence submitted by Richard Henry Lee on July 2, Congress took up the tabled draft declaration and, as a committee of the whole, edited it, then finally approved the version it had edited on July 4," Maier said. Slavery Debate According to Hoffman, the debate over Jefferson's original draft was heated. "Jefferson's original draft included a strong condemnation of slavery and the slave trade," he said. "The southern delegation wouldn't go along with it, so Jefferson backed off and allowed it to be removed." The removal of the antislavery language, according to Hoffman, left Jefferson feeling like the British had the moral high ground. The last royal governor of Virginia, John Murray, fourth Earl of Dunmore, had offered freedom to any slaves who joined in the fight on the side of the king. "Jefferson felt the rebels needed to justify the revolution on behalf of equality, and you can't have equality when you have a society based on slavery," Hoffman said. "Jefferson's inability to square that circle embedded the contradiction between slavery and freedom at the core of the founding of the United States." Whether Jefferson felt he lost the moral high ground to the British or not, Maier said that today most Americans revere Jefferson as the father of independence itself and of the declaration. "We forget the large number of people who were involved, not only the drafting committee and in Congress, but in the towns, counties, and state legislatures that also declared their support for independence, often explaining their reasons in the late spring and early summer of 1776," she said. Although Fourth of July celebrations were standard fare throughout the 19th century, the day was not an official paid holiday for federal employees until 1941. SIHA <siha wrote: Hello dear Mr. John TWB,I think we should change the subject of the message as US Chart. There is noghost of any chart.When there is an uncertain situation, lot of alternatives are tried andfinally the best one is adopted.So far before your expert advice was available, the efforts done by Mr.Grimes appeared to be best amongst many proposed US charts.Whatever chart is adopted for predictions, it has to prove itself with thepast events and future predictions.Best wishes,www.YourNetAstrologer.comA-105 South City-IIGurgaon-122101,INDIA.Ph: 91-124-2219240 91-9811016333-"John T W B" <jtwbjakarta<SAMVA >Friday, March 25, 2005 5:17 AM To Exorcize The Ghost Of The GRIMES CHART: March 1, 1781>> Hi Jorge,>> Herein follows what 3 months ago I neglected to forward to you for> you files, the transcript from the Journals of the Continental> Congress for February 24, 1781 outlining the calendar of events> planned for the afternoon following the 12:00 noon ratification> signing of the Articles of Confederation on March 1, 1781, the event> which marked the birth moment of the national government of the> United States. (And to clarify for the benefit of the uninitiated,> this birth event of the American government should not be confused> with the years earlier birth of America's body-politic, on July 2,> 1776 (here, body politic as commonly understood, as "the nation").>> If nothing else I hope the ghost of the Grimes Chart for 3:19 pm on> March 1, 1781 can be considered finally exorcized: A Chart> wrongheaded for two crucial reasons: FIRST, March 1, 1781 is an event> arising from the birth of government under America's first> constitution, the Articles of Confederation, a constitution devised> by representatives of the already existing nation, the United States.> Therefore Grimes contention that this day is the birthday of the> nation itself is just absurd, given the obvious implication that the> already existing nation, the United States, fostered the birth of its> own government on this same day; and SECOND, Grimes' rectification> for the 3:19 pm time moment could only have been determined in a> manner not unlike that of a consummate magician, as if a rabbit> produced from a hat in a magic trick. How else to characterize a time> moment choice where there is no historical record supporting this mid-> afternoon time moment choice? So to the contrary, the record is> unambiguously clear: IT HAPPENED AT 12:00 NOON when the two State of> Maryland delegates to Congress signed the> document.>> I invite everyone to read the following excerpt from the Journals of> Congress for the Saturday before the day in question:>> JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS> SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1781>> Congress took into consideration the report of the committee> appointed to report the mode of announcing the final ratification of> the Articles of Confederation; Whereupon,> That [on Thursday next at 12 o'Clock the final ratification of] the> Confederation of the United States of America becompleted, by the> execution thereof on the part of Maryland, at twelve o'clock on> Thursday next, and that this important event be immediately announced> to the publick,by the firing of thirteen cannon, and by the ringing> of the bells in this city, (and that the Board of War and Board of> Admiralty take order accordingly.)> That thissame (Important Event) be also communicated to the> Executives of the several States,and to the Commander-in-Chief they> be requested to proclaim it in their respective states.> That the several Ministers of these states in Europe beforthwith> informed of the complete and final ratification of the said> Confederation; and they beinstructed (ordered) tocommunicate (notify)> the same to the respective courts at which they reside.> That copies of the foregoing resolutions, with authentick information> of the completion of the said Confederation, be transmitted to the> Commander in Chief; and that he be directed topublish (announce) the> same to the Army under hisimmediate command,and to the fleet and army> of our most illustrious ally, in America.> That the like information be transmitted to the commanding officer in> the southern department, and that he be directed to announce the same> to the Army under his command.> That the Minister of France be also informed, that it is intended to> complete and ratify the said Confederation on Thursday next; and that> he be requested to make the earliest communication of the same to his> Court.1> [Note : * This report, in the writing of George Walton, except the> portions in brackets, which are in Charles Thomson's hand, and those> in parentheses, which are in Samuel Huntington's hand, is in> thePapers of the Continental Congress, No. 23, folio 29. It is also> entered in No. 9, (History of the Confederation.) A part of the> report, but separately presented, is the following:> NOT OF RECORD> That the Congress adjourn after completing the Confederation; and the> President shall invite the Minister of France, the Speaker and> members of the General Assembly, the Vice-President and members of> the Supreme Executive Council, and the officers of the Army and Navy,> to drink a glass of wine [to] "The United States of America." A keg> of biscuit, in the room of cake.*> [Note *: * Does it mean the Cake room.]> To be in the Hall where Congress sit.> The last six words are in James Madison's hand.> Another resolution, undated, in the writing of John Mathews, is in> No. 36, IV, folio 423, as follows:> Resolved that -- next be appointed for the Delegates of Maryland to> sign the Confederation.> That the President of the State of Pennsylvania the Minister of> France, The Vice-President Council and assembly of Pennsylvania, the> officers of the French and American Armies in this City, and all> other public officers, be particularly invited to attend the ceremony> and that the doors of the Congress chamber be opened at twelve oClock.> That the Board of War be directed to give proper orders, for> announcing the final ratification of theAmerican Confederacy of the> United States by the discharge of thirteen cannon.> That one of the Chaplains of Congressbe directed to prepare a> suitable sermon for the occasion.]> Resolved, That on Thursday next, at twelve o'clock, the final> ratification of the Confederation of the United States> of America, be announced to the public; and that the Board of War and> Board of Admiralty take order accordingly:> That this important event be communicated to the executives of the> several states:> That the several ministers of these states in Europe be informed of> the complete and final ratification of the said Confederation; and> that they be ordered to notify the same to the respective courts at> which they reside:> That it be also notified to the honorable the Minister> Plenipotentiary of France:> That information of the completion of the said Confederation be> transmitted to the Commander in Chief, and that he be directed to> announce the same to the army under his command.>> COMMENTARY:>> These thirteen UNITED STATES later devised the Articles of> Confederation (resulting from deliberations carried on between July> 12, 1776 and November 15, 1777) which Articles were finally duly> ratified by the thirteen states with the signatures of the delegates> from Maryland, the last of the thirteen states to do so, on March 1,> 1781 @ 12:00 noon in Philadelphia (N.B.: 12:00 noon being the time> moment in the officially established record, an astrologically un-> rectified time moment based on an official Continental Congressional> document dated February 22, 1781, in which document the precise time> of signing on March 1 was so stipulated and later complied with.> Please refer to the Journals of the Continental Congress for> Saturday, February 24, 1781 for the exact time and related plans for> that day. The contents of the document and the Journal's minutes for> February 24th demonstrate that the much referred to Grimes Chart for> that date's signing at the rectified time of 3:19 pm is based on an> unsubstantiated time moment, and so is proven to be fallacious by the> facts contained in the official documentary record, in the Papers of> the Continental Congress, Folio No.9.> >> FURTHER RESEARCH IN SUPPORT OF THE FOREGOING SUMMARY CONTENTIONS> REGARDING THE UNSUBSTANTIATED RECTIFICATION OF THE GRIMES CHART,> CITING THE LETTERS AND JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS, AS WELL> AS OTHER SUPPORTING REFERENCES, MAY BE FOUND IN THE EXTENDED COMMENT> OF "JOHN T W B" AT ASTRODATABANK.COM, IN THE USA FEEDBACK SECTION,> DATED NOVEMBER 16, 2004:>> >> U.S.A. AND ITS GOVT: FROM CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION TO ARTICLES OF> CONFEDERATION> >> Apropos an earlier message exchange in this Group during December> 2004 on the matter of possible American national unity before 1776,> here as a follow-up contribution is presented a brief look at the> later historic results of efforts started with the FIRST CONTINENTAL> CONGRESS convened in Philadelphia on September 05, 1774 and its> initiation of the chain of events leading up to the birth of the USA> on July 2, 1776, which birth of the American nation's sovereign> states and their "limited" union prepared the way for the later> constitutionally mandated birth of the U.S. Government on March 1,> 1781, with the completion of the signing of the Articles of> Confederation by the original 13 states, and so putting into effect> the American nation-states' first constitution.> >> For mundane astrology this writer bears in mind that there are two> major birth charts for any nation: first and foremost is the one for> the State, then that for the Government created constitutionally by> that State. In the case of the American nation there are: (1) the> chart for the birth of the sovereign body-politic; the generic STATE> (in the form of a "limited" union of States, the USA): dated July 2,> 1776, which during its first week of life comprised a pre-> constitutional "limited" union of 12 newly sovereign states of the> newly stiled UNITED STATES (then after July 9th 13 states) and (2)> the chart for the birth of the UNITED STATES' national GOVERNMENT> under the constitutional terms of the Articles of Confederation,> finally ratified on March 1,> 1781.> >> (Indispensable Scholarship: For a classic work on the meanings and> significance of the concepts: NATION, STATE and GOVERNMENT, one> should refer to John W. Burgess, Professor of Political Science and> Constitutional Law at Columbia University, his THE FOUNDATIONS OF> POLITICAL SCIENCE (1933, reprinted 1992) presents exhaustive> explanations by way of a scientific treatment, in terms of political> science and constitutional law, of the substantive differentiation of> a nation's state(s) and a nation's government.)> >> >From the start of the proceedings of the First Continental Congress,> opened on September 5, 1774, there soon followed the creation of the> formally adopted and documented CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION. Agreement to> the adoption of the related resolution of this Association was> reached shortly before 4:00 pm on October 18, 1774. Two days later,> on October 20, 1774, the resulting authenticated document was signed> by 12 of the 13 British American colonies (absent the colony of> Georgia). From that date in 1774 the Continental Congress conducted> itself under the "stile" of the UNITED COLONIES. Later on, the colony> of Georgia joined the Continental Association, on September 13, 1775,> at which time the membership of the Continental Association was> then "re-stiled" THE THIRTEEN UNITED COLONIES, to become in the> following year, at first, twelve UNITED STATES on July 2, 1776, then> thirteen UNITED STATES on July 9, 1776 when New York was duly> constituted in convention a sovereign state and resolved> to join the Union with the other twelve states of the already> established UNITED STATES.> >> This birth of the USA was first accomplished when 12 of 13 colonies> were each constitutionally authorized to direct its delegates in the> Continental Congress to formally resolve by voting for sovereign> independence and its declaration, thereby establishing, then and> there that July 2nd day in Philadelphia, the identities of these once> British American colonies as simply yet absolutely American sovereign> states, newly independent of the state of Great Britain. Their new> collective identity as the UNITED STATES, no longer the UNITED> COLONIES, was marked at the moment of the Continental Congressional> adoption of the relevant resolution initiating U.S. sovereignty, @> 4:48 pm (SAMVA rectification) on the late afternoon of July 2, 1776,> the true birthday of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. From that moment> on this historic date the on-going civil war between the governments> of the American colonies and the colonial administration of the> Government of Great Britain was then transformed to be> a revolutionary war between the American states and George III's> State of Great Britain. On July 2nd, 1776 the break with the British> State became reality; the civil war thenceforth a> revolution.> >> (The first historic action of the then just days old "United States> in General Congress Assembled" was that of the broadside proclamation> of the Declaration of Independence, its text completed and dated on> Thursday July 4th then published on Friday July 5th. This, the> American nation's first State Document: In its practical effect, the> mundane equivalent of a birth certificate dated July 4th recording> the accomplished sovereign birth of the USA of Tuesday July 2nd, and> not as popularly misunderstood, a mystical document, "somehow" in and> of itself, occasioning a July 4th time moment of birth.)> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun!>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Hello Mr. John, I know you and Mr. Jorge are fully engrossed with the work of getting a US chart which would be historically and astrologically correct. I personally am not in a position to devote more time to this subject. Best wishes for success in your efforts. - " John T W B " <jtwbjakarta <SAMVA > Friday, March 25, 2005 11:23 AM Re: US Chart. > Hi Professor > > Naturally, with all due respect to your sage advice, I maintain the following. > > Mundane astrologers are bound by the apriori framework of rational discourse, as are all practitioners of the sciences. Furthermore, the mundane astrologer is not permitted ever to disregard the historical record, any more than the natal astrologer can blythely disregard the actual birth record of his client. > > To declare March 1, 1781 as the birth of the American nation is " absurd " , as I have maintained already. All the astrological rectifying tests in the world will not make this event other than it is: i.e., the birth date of America's government. This is not unique to America. This distinction between nation and government is generically so. For an example closer to home, India as a nation was born on August 15, 1947; yet that nation's government was born years later, on on Republic Day in January 1950. The distinction between nation and government is not arbitrary. Each of these two birth charts is telling a different story, however parallactically related. It's the task of the mundane astrologer to recognize the generic difference and then explore the significances for analytical and predictive purposes. > > As for rectification as such, where the time record on a given date is indeterminate, then of course what you have just commented is quite indisputable. In fact, Jorge Angelino has performed just such a task on the American " nation's " chart: July 2, 1776. The authoritative historical research, at best, places the enacting moment of Congress on July 2nd 1776 no earlier than 2:00 pm and no later than 6:00 pm. The record is no more precise than this 4 hour interval. Jorge has identified 4:48 pm as the most probable, based on his standard tests. Of course, let the community criticize if they will and possibly improve upon his findings. Perhaps there is another time-moment in this 4 hour interval that improves on his work. However, the critic is not doing service to mundane astrology, by hypothetiical example, if the critic were to insist that because it may be determined that the Sun was exactly, to-the-arc-minute, conjunct the star Sirius at 6:00am that July 2nd day, and further because > this critic finds some correlating events for that time, that therefore his advocacy of 6:00 am should have equal veracity with Jorge's 4:48 pm is just unfounded assertion. Let that critic argue correlations until he is blue in the face, yet he cannot change the historical fact that nothing happened in the Continental Congress at 6:00 am. The Congress opened its doors at 9:00 am. > > Now one may object that my illustration is unrealistically argued. Ok, so I now bring the focus closer to the actuality of recent exoperience; I would like to draw attention to the veritable hornets nest of astrologers' disputes over the mythical 4th of July birthday of the American nation. I have at my desk, for example, a book by Mr Gar Osten, entitled THE ASTROLOGICAL CHART OF THE UNITED STATES, published by Stein & Day, New York, 1976. Mr Osten maintains that the true rectified birth day and time of the American nation is not July 2nd, as maintained by the recognized authorities in the historical profession at least since the year 1850, but July 4th, and at 3:00 am no less (Yes!, in the heart-of-darkness morning, he really means " a.m. " ). This is surely breath-taking in its audacious disregard of the relevant history of Congress' daily schedule. Even conspiratorial Masons, possibly Hancock and Franklin on the inside of Congress, and George Clymer and Thomas Paine in the > neighborhood, were wont to find a good night's sleep in that era, as Masons do in our own. But a legislative adoption at 3:00 am ???? Please !!! > > As background to Osten's eccentricity, Nicholas Campion tells the story of America's most prominent 19th astrologer, Luke Broughton, who cast a horoscope for 2:15 am on July 4th. Many astrologers have since folowed him, but on a road to the absurd, in utter disregard of Broughton's stated assumptions, which were not in the least scientific in pretense. Broughton obviously didn't care about science. Broughton simply maintained that the American Nation is Gemini in persona, and so he put Gemini (Tropical) on the July 4th ascendant and worked his rectification from there. Osten doesn't have even that much defense. He devotes 260 pages to all the correlating events he maintains substantiates the predictive value and integrity of the 3:00 am Jul;y 4th 1776 Chart. To characterize this as lunatic, as well as at the same tiome silly is to be charitable. To say it is unscientific is to grasp firmly the obvious. And so it goes for the rest of the prominent astrologers who mystically divine > the true birth date and time-moment of the American nation to be on July 4th. These astrologers, all, are drilling a dry well; On July 4th America was already in the 2nd day of existence. > > History must necessarily be a stern task master for the mundane astrologer. I've been kind enough to Grimes, who obviously decided that the historical record, beyond the day of the month of March in 1781 was of no consequence in establishing " his " birthchart of the American nation. This is thoroughly unscientific in attitude. It remains, in the two major respects I summarized in my previouis message, what serious study of his arguments must disclose, " absurd " . > > In closing I append excerpted statements from the top historians over the past 150 years, all declaring their findings that July 2nd was the birth date of America. Not one of them confused this birth date with the birth date of the national government on March 1, 1781. Grimes does so get it confused. He's not doing science; he at best painting pictures of his own imagination. No rectifying exercise can alter the falsity of his investigations. > > > > With my very best wishes to you sir (and to Haryana, of course), > > > > John > > > > EACH OF THESE 15 SCHOLARS QUOTED HERE BELOW EXPLAINS WHY JULY 2nd, not JULY 4th, IS AMERICA's BIRTH DAY : > > > > > > [01] Benson J. Lossing, PICTORIAL FIELD BOOK OF THE REVOLUTION (1850); [02] Peter Force, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1855); [03] George Bancroft, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, Vol. II (1860); [04] Thomas Wentworth Higginson, THE STORY OF THE SIGNING (1876); [05] Mellen Chamberlain, THE AUTHENTICATION OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1885); [06] Herbert Friedenwald, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1904); [07] John H. Hazelton, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: IT'S HISTORY (1906); [08] John W. Burgess, SOVEREIGNTY AND LIBERTY (1890) and THE RECONCILIATION OF GOVERNMENT WITH LIBERTY (1915); [09] Carl L. Becker, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1922); [10] John C Fitzpatrick, THE SPIRIT OF THE REVOLUTION (1924); [11] Edmund C. Burnett, THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS (1941); [12] Charles Warren, FOURTH OF JULY MYTHS (1945); [13] John R. Alden, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION (1954) and A HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION (1969); [14] Katherine and John Bakeless, SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION (1969); > [15] Gary Wills, INVENTING AMERICA: JEFFERSON'S DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1978); [16] John Ferling, THE ROCKY ROAD TO REVOLUTION (2004). > > > > > > [01] Benson J. Lossing, PICTORIAL FIELD-BOOK OF THE REVOLUTION, Vol. II (New York, 1850): > > > > " Richard Henry Lee's resolution, declaring the colonies " free and independent states, " was adopted on the 2nd of July, and that day, rather than the 4th, should be celebrated as our national anniversary. It was only the form of the Declaration, which accompanied the resolution that was adopted on the latter day. (p.280). > > > > > > [02] Peter Force, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: Or Notes on Lord Mahon's History of the American Declaration of Independence. (London, 1855): > > > > " The Resolution on Independency (adopted on July 2nd) and the Declaration of Independence (adopted on July 4th) were 'separate' and 'distinct' measures before Congress, proposed at different times, considered at different times, and decided at different times; that the Resolution was the great question of American Independence-the Declaration was the announcement of Independence to the world " (p38). " The adoption of this Resolution on the 2nd of July, 1776 was the termination of all lawful authority of the King over the thirteen United Colonies -made by this act of the Congress of the thirteen United States of America " .... " This was the day on which was consummated the most important measure that had ever been debated in America " . " The Declaration of Independence was adopted on July 4th by the vote of twelve States, the same that 2 days before had as Colonies passed the act of Independency. " (p.59) .. " It was also printed and circulated among > the people.It was read everywhere.It was this universal diffusion of the Declaration that made the 4th of July the great festival day of the nation, instead of the 2nd day of July, the real birthday of American freedom. " (p.60). > > > > > > [03] Thomas Wentworth Higginson, historian, THE STORY OF THE SIGNING: 1776 > > published in Scribner's Monthly, Vol. XII, No. 3 (July 1876). > > > > " John Adams was mistaken in one prediction about the birth of U.S. Independence: It is the Fourth of July, not the Second, which has been accepted by Americans as the " most memorable epocha " . This is one of the many illustrations of the fact that words as well as deeds are needful, since a great act may seem incomplete until it has been put into a fitting form of words. It was the vote of July 2nd that changed the thirteen colonies into independent States; the Declaration of Independence only promulgated the fact and assigned its reasons. Had this great proclamation turned out to be a confused or ill-written document, it would never have eclipsed in fame the original Resolution, which certainly had no such weak side. " (p.295) > > > > > > [04] George Bancroft, U.S. diplomat and historian, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, Vol. II in HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES from the Discovery of the American Continent, Vol. VIII (Boston, 1860): > > > > " American independence was not an act of sudden passion, nor the work of one man or one assembly. It had been discussed in every part of the country by farmers and merchants, by mechanics and planters, by the fishermen along the coast and by the backwoodsmen of the West; in town meetings and from the pulpit; at social gatherings and around the camp fires; in newspapers and in pamphlets; in county conventions and in conferences of committees; in colonial congresses and assemblies. The decision on Independency was put off only to hear the voice of the people. " (p.432). " The July 2nd > > Resolution of Congress changed the old thirteen British colonies into free and independent states. It remained to set forth the reason for this act, and the principle which the new people would own as their guides " (p.462) " The war was no longer a Civil War; Britain was become to the United States a foreign country. " (p.474) " But the states which were henceforth independent of Britain were not independent of one another; the United States of America assumed powers over war, peace, foreign alliances, and commerce. " ... > > > > > > [05] Mellen. Chamberlain, historian and the Librarian, the Boston Public Library. .... > > THE AUTHENTICATION OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. ..... > > (Boston, 1885); a monograph reprinted from the Proceedings of the Massachusetts Historical Society, November, 1884; and reprinted again in JOHN ADAMS, THE STATESMAN OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION with Other Essays and Addresses. (Boston, 1898): > > > > " When Lee's resolution for Independency was agreed to by the Congress on the 2nd of July, the battle had been fought and the victory won. " .. " What was done on July 2nd realized the ardent wishes of the patriotic party in the thirteen colonies. Its consummated act was a notable achievement of advocacy; and the great patriot, John Adams, fondly hoped that it would be celebrated to the remotest times. But it is otherwise: the glory of the act is overshadowed by the glory of its annunciation. " (p.27). > > > > > > [06] Herbert Friedenwald, former Chief, Manuscript Division, Library of Congress. ... > > THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: An Interpretation and an Analysis... > > (New York, 1904 and reprinted 1974): > > > > " For the diffusion of popular misconception respecting the signing of the Declaration of Independence there is ample warrant, in that the two principle sources of information which should be authoritative are misleading. They are an incorrectly printed journal of the proceedings of the Congress, and a carelessly composed heading to the engrossed document. " (p.134). " The engrossed document is itself largely responsible for the erroneous views which have been held respecting the date of the signing. Being headed by the legend, 'In Congress, July 4th 1776' and ending with the 56 signatures, the natural inference to be made, until better information was available, was that this official document was signed on that day. It is further misinforming in its title 'The Unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America', under the date July 4th; for on that day only 12 States took part in the ballot. " (p148). > > > > > > [07] John H. Hazelton, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: ITS HISTORY... (New York, 1906 and reprinted 1970): > > > > " The 2nd of JULY, and NOT the 4th of JULY, therefore, was the day upon which America declared her independence.'Independence of that nation whose morning drum beat', in the language of Daniel Webster, 'following the sun, and keeping company with the hours, circles the earth with one continuous and unbroken strain of the martial airs of England'. " (p166). > > > > > > [08a] John W Burgess, Founder of the Dept of Political Science, Columbia University . POLITICAL SCIENCE AND COMPARATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW: ....... Volume I: SOVEREIGNTY AND LIBERTY (New York, 1890): > > > > " The first enduring form of the American state was the Continental Congress; there was something more on this side of the Atlantic than thirteen local governments. There was a sovereignty, a state; not in idea simply or upon paper, but in fact and in organization. The revolution was an accomplished fact before the Declaration of 1776, and so was independence. The act of the 4th of July was a notification to the world of a 'fait accomplis'. A nation and a state did not spring into existence through that declaration, as dramatic publicists are wont to express it. Nations and States do not spring into existence. The significance of the declaration as Proclamation was this: a people testified thereby the consciousness of the fact that they had become , in the progressive development of history, one whole, separate, and adult nation, and a national state, and that they were determined to defend this natural status against the now no longer natural supremacy of a foreign state " (p.100) > > > > [08b] John W. Burgess, Founder of the Dept of Political Science, Columbia University. THE RECONCILIATION OF GOVERNMENT WITH LIBERTY (New York, 1915) > > > > " After May 1775 this second Continental Convention (The term 'Congress' has been too much connected with Government to designate correctly this body), began to assume constituent powers, that is, the powers of sovereignty: it created an army, a navy, a treasury and a post office.Further in May 1776, upon proposition that it create a uniform system of local Government to take the place, of the British Colonial Governments, it authorized, under form of suggestion, the inhabitants of the several Colonial Territories to create local governmental institutions for themselves on the basis of the broadest possible suffrage. Finally, after all this constructive constituent work had been done, this second Continental 'Convention' declared, in the name and by the authority of the good people of the Colonies, the United Colonies to be free and independent. National unity and National sovereignty PRECEDED thus the Declaration of Independence AND PRODUCED IT. " (p.294) > > > > > > [09] Carl Lotus Becker, a past president, American Historical Association ...... THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: A Study in the History of Political Ideas. (New York, 1922 and reprinted 1942 with a new 14 page Author's Introduction): > > > > " A book on this subject would naturally begin by noting with some precision what the famous document purported to be. It turned out not be the formal act of separation from Great Britain, voted by Congress on July 2nd, but " A DECLARATION " of July 4th, designed to convince a " candid world " that the separation was necessary and right - in short, an argument in support of an action. " (p.ix, in the 1942 Knopf edition only). " It is often forgotten that the document which we know as the Declaration of Independence is not the official act by which the Continental Congress voted in favor of separation from Great Britain. Richard Henry Lee's Resolution on Independency was finally voted by the Continental Congress on the 2nd of July, 1776. Strictly speaking, this was the official Declaration of Independence; and if we were a nation of antiquaries we should no doubt find an incongruity in celebrating the anniversary of our independence on the 4th of July. " (p3). " This title of the document, > 'The Declaration of Independence', is not, strictly speaking, the official title of the document in question. The document never knew itself, in any of its various forms, by that name. Jefferson, in making the first draft, gave it the following title: 'A DECLARATION by the Representatives of the United States of America in General Congress assembled'. This title was retained in all copies of the Declaration, except the engrossed parchment copy with the title and stile of 'The UNANIMOUS DECLARATION of the thirteen united States of America'. It is true, the Declaration, in the form adopted by Congress, incorporates in its final paragraph the Resolution of July 2nd; and so the Declaration may be said to be a declaration of independence, as much as in it Congress once more declared what it had already declared two days before. Nevertheless, the primary purpose of the Declaration was not to declare independence, but to proclaim to the world the reasons for declaring independence. It was > intended as a formal justification of an act already accomplished. " (p 4) > > > > > > [10] John C. Fitzpatrick, A.M, Assistant Chief, Manuscript Division, Library of Congress THE SPIRIT OF THE REVOLUTION: New Light from Some of the Original Sources of American History. (Washington, D.C., 1924 and reprinted 1970): > > > > " The June 7, 1776 Lee Resolution on Independency was heatedly debated for nearly a month, but from the first it was apparent that eventually it would be adopted. It would be the great and final casting of the die of separation, and Congress felt that a form of announcement of that step would be needed that would be more impressive, more of an attention riveting manifesto, than the short and concise wording of Lee's Resolution would present. " (p.04) " On July 2nd, Lee's Resolution on Independency was adopted, and immediately thereafter Jefferson's draft of the Declaration of independence was taken up as unfinished business in the committee of the who le, and on July 4th, 1776 the finally revised draft was agreed to by Congress as the form of the announcement that the United Colonies had, on July 2nd, become free and independent States. July 2nd is the day upon which the United States became a nation, and on July 4th we declared " to a candid world " the action taken on July 2nd. (p.07) > " The Declaration of Independence was composed for the single purpose of justifying to the world the breaking away of the Colonies from Great Britain. It was designed to introduce, in the most persuasive and convincing form, the right and justice of the adoption of Richard Henry Lee's resolution > > of Independency. " (p.23). > > > > > > [11] Edmund C. Burnett, Historical Research Dept., Carnegie Institute, Washington, D.C. THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS 1774-1789. (New York, 1941, reprinted 1964): > > > > " Thus at last did Congress, on the 2nd July, 1776 after long hesitation and not a little squirming, resolve that henceforth that the United Colonies are and should be free and independent States. To all intents and purposes this resolution was the conclusion of the whole matter. " (p.184) " The colonies through their Congress had indeed declared for independence, but the bare assertion of independence was not sufficient. The reasons therefore must be set forth explicitly, must be marshaled in a form and a manner that would not only convince Americans, but would inspire them to go to the hazard of its maintenance. Moreover, the facts must be submitted to a candid world, for the good opinion of the candid world might prove to be essential to the success of their cause. (p.185). > > > > > > [12] Charles Warren, FOURTH OF JULY MYTHS ............... (The William and Mary Quarterly, Third Series, Vol. II, No. 3, July 1945). > > > > " It is a singular fact that the greatest event in American history-the Declaration of Independence-has been the subject of more incorrect popular belief, more bad memory on the part of participants, and more false history than any other occurrence in our national life " ... " The first mistaken popular belief is that the Fourth of July is the anniversary of American Independence. The fact is that Independence Day was properly the day on which Congress passed the resolution which actually established our Independence; and that day was July 2nd 1776 and not July 4th, 1776. " (p.237), " The second mistaken belief, long popularly held, is that the Declaration of Independence was signed on July 4, 1776. Most Americans have seen either a facsimile or the original document now in the Library of Congress, with the names signed at the end; and most believe that it was signed on the day that the Congress on July 4, 1776 adopted it. This belief was generally held for over one hundred years. The > fact is, however, that it was NOT so signed; and historians are now agreed on this point. " (p.242). > > > > > > [13a] John Richard Alden, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION 1775-1783 (N.Y., 1954) > > > > The delegates of the second Continental Congress in the Pennsylvania State House heard Richard Henry Lee formally propose on June 7 a resolution calling for a declaration of independence, an American confederation, and attempts to secure alliances with powers of Continental Europe. " (p.80) " At long last on July 2 the patriots, setting aside doubts and fears, at least for the moment, had pledged themselves to the creation of a new nation. > > .A day in July, 1776, did indeed become memorable to Americans, but it was, perversely, the fourth rather than the second day. On the fourth the Congress voted to approve that famous document, the Declaration of Independence, in which the patriots informed a candid world why they had undertaken to form the United States of America. Americans have celebrated the day on which the justification was approved, not the day of the deed. " (p.81) > > > > [13b] John R. Alden, A HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION (N.Y., 1969): > > > > " Why it is that the Americans do not, and never did, handsomely celebrate the anniversary of July 2nd, a day of so great importance in their history? Because, in faulty memory, they afterward recalled that the Patriots tore free from the shackles > > of tyrannical George III on July 4th " ... " The Declaration of Independence repeated and defended the Lee Resolution in such extraordinary fashion that the decision taken two days earlier on July 2nd was forgotten. The recollections of the ablest of men, even those concerning the most momentous events, are not to be trusted. The author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson himself, later remembered July 4th as the day on which America announced her freedom. " (p.241). > > > > > > [14] Katherine and John Bakeless, historians, SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION ... > > (Houghton Mifflin Company Boston, 1969). > > > > " THE FOURTH OF JULY is the day on which Americans commemorate the independence of their country. Though there are several other days we might celebrate as Independence Day, the Second Continental Congress, in 1776, formally adopted the final revision of the Declaration of Independence on the Fourth of July. The United Colonies were already independent, for Congress had passed a resolution declaring independence two days before, on July 2nd, 1776. All the formal Declaration of Independence did was to state formally to the world, and especially to the British Empire, what Congress had decided and why. . We could celebrate July 2nd, the day independence was actually voted. . It wasn't really necessary to have the Declaration of Independence at all. " (p.1) > > > > > > [15] Gary Wills, Journalist & Historian, INVENTING AMERICA: JEFFERSON'S DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, (Doubleday & Co., New York, 1978). > > > > " The general structure and strategy of argument in the Declaration was affected by the petitioning process. The language of a mutual pledge at the end, and the insertion of Lee's resolution of independence, gave the document some appearance of a charter; yet it could not be a formal compact of government, since the colonies had withheld the power to make such a pledge from their delegates.Actually there was no confusion at the time about the document's genre. It was a paper issued subsequent to an action in order to explain that action. " (p.334) > > > > " The very precision of the term, a declaration, would lead to later confusion. This was perhaps unavoidable, since state declaration had two quite different meanings in the legal literature familiar to Jefferson's fellows in the Congress. Declaration sometimes meant just the explanation of an act. But at other times declaring was the act itself-e.g., when a sovereign declares war. William of Orange's Declaration was just an explanation; but one of the things that led to that document was James II's Declaration for Liberty of Conscience of April 4, 1687-an instrument that effected the state it described. The Parliament's Declaration of Rights was both explanatory (describing the failure of petitions to James) and declaratory of an effect (the naming of William and Mary as King and Queen), Jefferson's Declaration is explanatory of an act; but the act itself had been declaratory. Declaring independence, like declaring war, is an act of state. That act was accomplished on July 2, > when the Congress voted on Lee's resolution that the colonies 'are [at that very moment], and of right ought to be, free and independent states.' The condition of independence was declared to exist, already, at that vote.Those immediately involved in the process understood, at the outset, the difference between declaring as an act and the Declaration as an explanation of that act. " (p.336) > > > > > > [16] John Ferling, Professor Emeritus of History, State University of West Georgia, > > " The Rocky Road to Revolution, " SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE, (July 2004) > > http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian/issues04/jul04/editorsnote.html > > > > Carey Winfrey, Editor of the SMITHSONIAN, writes to introduce John Ferling: " Professor Ferling reminds us of the contentious debates of 1776 that finally led the Second Continental Congress to declare independence from England. The historic vote was taken on that fateful July 2nd, 1776 " . " That's right, " says Ferling. " July 2nd! I like to grill outside or picnic on July 2nd. I feel that I am remembering the proper day, and it also enables me to celebrate twice - on the real Independence Day and two days later on the contrived holiday. " > POSTSCRIPT > > > U.S. Independence Celebrated on the Wrong Day? > > > John Roach > for National Geographic News > > July 2, 2004 > > On Sunday, the Fourth of July, millions of U.S. citizens will fire up the barbeque and shoot off fireworks in celebration of the Declaration of Independence, a now-sacred document that declares the independence of what were then 13 united colonies from England. > > > But the Continental Congress voted for the Declaration of Independence on the second of July in 1776. No one signed it until August 2, and the last signatures didn't come until the end of November. > > " The only thing that happened on the fourth was they approved the document, " said Ronald Hoffman, director of the Omohundro Institute of Early American History and Culture at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia. > > Several members of the Congress who voted for independence never signed the document, and several members who signed the document, were absent when the vote was taken, Hoffman added. > > John Adams, the second President of the United States, was in 1776 a delegate to the Continental Congress representing the colony of Massachusetts. He wrote in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776, that " the second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epocha in the history of America. " > > Pauline Maier, a professor of U.S. history and authority on the American Revolution, said that " in 1777, Congress didn't think of recalling the event until it was too late to celebrate the second, and the fourth became standard. " > > And much to the chagrin of Adams-who played an active role in revising drafts of the declaration into its final form-Virginia representative Thomas Jefferson, who drafted the original, took much of the credit as the sole author of the document. > > " John Adams's claim to share in the glory of independence was well founded, " Maier said. " He did far more than Jefferson to bring Congress to the point of approving separation from Britain. " > > Coincidentally, Jefferson and Adams both died on July 4, 1826, 50 years after the Declaration of Independence was approved. > > Declaring Independence > > Gordon Wood, a history professor at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, said that today many U.S. citizens fail to understand the gravity of the Declaration of Independence. > > " Most people don't think about it too much, " he said. " It's an occasion for cookouts and firecrackers, but at the time it was a big deal-breaking away from the British Empire and establishing independence. " > > The declaration sets forth a list of grievances with the King of England, George III, that justified a breaking of ties between the colonies and the mother country. At the time, the British Empire was all-powerful. A group of colonies breaking away was an unprecedented event, Wood said. > > " Now Britain seems like small potatoes compared to the power of the U.S. The whole relationship has been reversed, " he said. > > The declaration was drafted by a committee of five appointed by the Continental Congress on June 11, 1776. Members included Adams of Massachusetts, Roger Sherman of Connecticut, Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania, Robert Livingston of New York, and Jefferson of Virginia. > > The committee selected Jefferson to draft the document, which members of the committee revised and then submitted to the Continental Congress on June 28. The Congress tabled it. > > " After approving a resolution on Independence submitted by Richard Henry Lee on July 2, Congress took up the tabled draft declaration and, as a committee of the whole, edited it, then finally approved the version it had edited on July 4, " Maier said. > > Slavery Debate > > According to Hoffman, the debate over Jefferson's original draft was heated. > > " Jefferson's original draft included a strong condemnation of slavery and the slave trade, " he said. " The southern delegation wouldn't go along with it, so Jefferson backed off and allowed it to be removed. " > > The removal of the antislavery language, according to Hoffman, left Jefferson feeling like the British had the moral high ground. The last royal governor of Virginia, John Murray, fourth Earl of Dunmore, had offered freedom to any slaves who joined in the fight on the side of the king. > > " Jefferson felt the rebels needed to justify the revolution on behalf of equality, and you can't have equality when you have a society based on slavery, " Hoffman said. " Jefferson's inability to square that circle embedded the contradiction between slavery and freedom at the core of the founding of the United States. " > > Whether Jefferson felt he lost the moral high ground to the British or not, Maier said that today most Americans revere Jefferson as the father of independence itself and of the declaration. > > " We forget the large number of people who were involved, not only the drafting committee and in Congress, but in the towns, counties, and state legislatures that also declared their support for independence, often explaining their reasons in the late spring and early summer of 1776, " she said. > > Although Fourth of July celebrations were standard fare throughout the 19th century, the day was not an official paid holiday for federal employees until 1941. > > > > > > SIHA <siha wrote: > > Hello dear Mr. John TWB, > > I think we should change the subject of the message as US Chart. There is no > ghost of any chart. > > When there is an uncertain situation, lot of alternatives are tried and > finally the best one is adopted. > > So far before your expert advice was available, the efforts done by Mr. > Grimes appeared to be best amongst many proposed US charts. > > Whatever chart is adopted for predictions, it has to prove itself with the > past events and future predictions. > > Best wishes, > > > www.YourNetAstrologer.com > A-105 South City-II > Gurgaon-122101, > INDIA. > Ph: 91-124-2219240 > 91-9811016333 > > - > " John T W B " <jtwbjakarta > <SAMVA > > Friday, March 25, 2005 5:17 AM > To Exorcize The Ghost Of The GRIMES CHART: March 1, 1781 > > > > > > Hi Jorge, > > > > Herein follows what 3 months ago I neglected to forward to you for > > you files, the transcript from the Journals of the Continental > > Congress for February 24, 1781 outlining the calendar of events > > planned for the afternoon following the 12:00 noon ratification > > signing of the Articles of Confederation on March 1, 1781, the event > > which marked the birth moment of the national government of the > > United States. (And to clarify for the benefit of the uninitiated, > > this birth event of the American government should not be confused > > with the years earlier birth of America's body-politic, on July 2, > > 1776 (here, body politic as commonly understood, as " the nation " ). > > > > If nothing else I hope the ghost of the Grimes Chart for 3:19 pm on > > March 1, 1781 can be considered finally exorcized: A Chart > > wrongheaded for two crucial reasons: FIRST, March 1, 1781 is an event > > arising from the birth of government under America's first > > constitution, the Articles of Confederation, a constitution devised > > by representatives of the already existing nation, the United States. > > Therefore Grimes contention that this day is the birthday of the > > nation itself is just absurd, given the obvious implication that the > > already existing nation, the United States, fostered the birth of its > > own government on this same day; and SECOND, Grimes' rectification > > for the 3:19 pm time moment could only have been determined in a > > manner not unlike that of a consummate magician, as if a rabbit > > produced from a hat in a magic trick. How else to characterize a time > > moment choice where there is no historical record supporting this mid- > > afternoon time moment choice? So to the contrary, the record is > > unambiguously clear: IT HAPPENED AT 12:00 NOON when the two State of > > Maryland delegates to Congress signed the > > document. > > > > I invite everyone to read the following excerpt from the Journals of > > Congress for the Saturday before the day in question: > > > > JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS > > SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1781 > > > > Congress took into consideration the report of the committee > > appointed to report the mode of announcing the final ratification of > > the Articles of Confederation; Whereupon, > > That [on Thursday next at 12 o'Clock the final ratification of] the > > Confederation of the United States of America becompleted, by the > > execution thereof on the part of Maryland, at twelve o'clock on > > Thursday next, and that this important event be immediately announced > > to the publick,by the firing of thirteen cannon, and by the ringing > > of the bells in this city, (and that the Board of War and Board of > > Admiralty take order accordingly.) > > That thissame (Important Event) be also communicated to the > > Executives of the several States,and to the Commander-in-Chief they > > be requested to proclaim it in their respective states. > > That the several Ministers of these states in Europe beforthwith > > informed of the complete and final ratification of the said > > Confederation; and they beinstructed (ordered) tocommunicate (notify) > > the same to the respective courts at which they reside. > > That copies of the foregoing resolutions, with authentick information > > of the completion of the said Confederation, be transmitted to the > > Commander in Chief; and that he be directed topublish (announce) the > > same to the Army under hisimmediate command,and to the fleet and army > > of our most illustrious ally, in America. > > That the like information be transmitted to the commanding officer in > > the southern department, and that he be directed to announce the same > > to the Army under his command. > > That the Minister of France be also informed, that it is intended to > > complete and ratify the said Confederation on Thursday next; and that > > he be requested to make the earliest communication of the same to his > > Court.1 > > [Note : * This report, in the writing of George Walton, except the > > portions in brackets, which are in Charles Thomson's hand, and those > > in parentheses, which are in Samuel Huntington's hand, is in > > thePapers of the Continental Congress, No. 23, folio 29. It is also > > entered in No. 9, (History of the Confederation.) A part of the > > report, but separately presented, is the following: > > NOT OF RECORD > > That the Congress adjourn after completing the Confederation; and the > > President shall invite the Minister of France, the Speaker and > > members of the General Assembly, the Vice-President and members of > > the Supreme Executive Council, and the officers of the Army and Navy, > > to drink a glass of wine [to] " The United States of America. " A keg > > of biscuit, in the room of cake.* > > [Note *: * Does it mean the Cake room.] > > To be in the Hall where Congress sit. > > The last six words are in James Madison's hand. > > Another resolution, undated, in the writing of John Mathews, is in > > No. 36, IV, folio 423, as follows: > > Resolved that -- next be appointed for the Delegates of Maryland to > > sign the Confederation. > > That the President of the State of Pennsylvania the Minister of > > France, The Vice-President Council and assembly of Pennsylvania, the > > officers of the French and American Armies in this City, and all > > other public officers, be particularly invited to attend the ceremony > > and that the doors of the Congress chamber be opened at twelve oClock. > > That the Board of War be directed to give proper orders, for > > announcing the final ratification of theAmerican Confederacy of the > > United States by the discharge of thirteen cannon. > > That one of the Chaplains of Congressbe directed to prepare a > > suitable sermon for the occasion.] > > Resolved, That on Thursday next, at twelve o'clock, the final > > ratification of the Confederation of the United States > > of America, be announced to the public; and that the Board of War and > > Board of Admiralty take order accordingly: > > That this important event be communicated to the executives of the > > several states: > > That the several ministers of these states in Europe be informed of > > the complete and final ratification of the said Confederation; and > > that they be ordered to notify the same to the respective courts at > > which they reside: > > That it be also notified to the honorable the Minister > > Plenipotentiary of France: > > That information of the completion of the said Confederation be > > transmitted to the Commander in Chief, and that he be directed to > > announce the same to the army under his command. > > > > COMMENTARY: > > > > These thirteen UNITED STATES later devised the Articles of > > Confederation (resulting from deliberations carried on between July > > 12, 1776 and November 15, 1777) which Articles were finally duly > > ratified by the thirteen states with the signatures of the delegates > > from Maryland, the last of the thirteen states to do so, on March 1, > > 1781 @ 12:00 noon in Philadelphia (N.B.: 12:00 noon being the time > > moment in the officially established record, an astrologically un- > > rectified time moment based on an official Continental Congressional > > document dated February 22, 1781, in which document the precise time > > of signing on March 1 was so stipulated and later complied with. > > Please refer to the Journals of the Continental Congress for > > Saturday, February 24, 1781 for the exact time and related plans for > > that day. The contents of the document and the Journal's minutes for > > February 24th demonstrate that the much referred to Grimes Chart for > > that date's signing at the rectified time of 3:19 pm is based on an > > unsubstantiated time moment, and so is proven to be fallacious by the > > facts contained in the official documentary record, in the Papers of > > the Continental Congress, Folio No.9. > > > > > FURTHER RESEARCH IN SUPPORT OF THE FOREGOING SUMMARY CONTENTIONS > > REGARDING THE UNSUBSTANTIATED RECTIFICATION OF THE GRIMES CHART, > > CITING THE LETTERS AND JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS, AS WELL > > AS OTHER SUPPORTING REFERENCES, MAY BE FOUND IN THE EXTENDED COMMENT > > OF " JOHN T W B " AT ASTRODATABANK.COM, IN THE USA FEEDBACK SECTION, > > DATED NOVEMBER 16, 2004: > > > > > > > U.S.A. AND ITS GOVT: FROM CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION TO ARTICLES OF > > CONFEDERATION > > > > > Apropos an earlier message exchange in this Group during December > > 2004 on the matter of possible American national unity before 1776, > > here as a follow-up contribution is presented a brief look at the > > later historic results of efforts started with the FIRST CONTINENTAL > > CONGRESS convened in Philadelphia on September 05, 1774 and its > > initiation of the chain of events leading up to the birth of the USA > > on July 2, 1776, which birth of the American nation's sovereign > > states and their " limited " union prepared the way for the later > > constitutionally mandated birth of the U.S. Government on March 1, > > 1781, with the completion of the signing of the Articles of > > Confederation by the original 13 states, and so putting into effect > > the American nation-states' first constitution. > > > > > For mundane astrology this writer bears in mind that there are two > > major birth charts for any nation: first and foremost is the one for > > the State, then that for the Government created constitutionally by > > that State. In the case of the American nation there are: (1) the > > chart for the birth of the sovereign body-politic; the generic STATE > > (in the form of a " limited " union of States, the USA): dated July 2, > > 1776, which during its first week of life comprised a pre- > > constitutional " limited " union of 12 newly sovereign states of the > > newly stiled UNITED STATES (then after July 9th 13 states) and (2) > > the chart for the birth of the UNITED STATES' national GOVERNMENT > > under the constitutional terms of the Articles of Confederation, > > finally ratified on March 1, > > 1781. > > > > > (Indispensable Scholarship: For a classic work on the meanings and > > significance of the concepts: NATION, STATE and GOVERNMENT, one > > should refer to John W. Burgess, Professor of Political Science and > > Constitutional Law at Columbia University, his THE FOUNDATIONS OF > > POLITICAL SCIENCE (1933, reprinted 1992) presents exhaustive > > explanations by way of a scientific treatment, in terms of political > > science and constitutional law, of the substantive differentiation of > > a nation's state(s) and a nation's government.) > > > > > >From the start of the proceedings of the First Continental Congress, > > opened on September 5, 1774, there soon followed the creation of the > > formally adopted and documented CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION. Agreement to > > the adoption of the related resolution of this Association was > > reached shortly before 4:00 pm on October 18, 1774. Two days later, > > on October 20, 1774, the resulting authenticated document was signed > > by 12 of the 13 British American colonies (absent the colony of > > Georgia). From that date in 1774 the Continental Congress conducted > > itself under the " stile " of the UNITED COLONIES. Later on, the colony > > of Georgia joined the Continental Association, on September 13, 1775, > > at which time the membership of the Continental Association was > > then " re-stiled " THE THIRTEEN UNITED COLONIES, to become in the > > following year, at first, twelve UNITED STATES on July 2, 1776, then > > thirteen UNITED STATES on July 9, 1776 when New York was duly > > constituted in convention a sovereign state and resolved > > to join the Union with the other twelve states of the already > > established UNITED STATES. > > > > > This birth of the USA was first accomplished when 12 of 13 colonies > > were each constitutionally authorized to direct its delegates in the > > Continental Congress to formally resolve by voting for sovereign > > independence and its declaration, thereby establishing, then and > > there that July 2nd day in Philadelphia, the identities of these once > > British American colonies as simply yet absolutely American sovereign > > states, newly independent of the state of Great Britain. Their new > > collective identity as the UNITED STATES, no longer the UNITED > > COLONIES, was marked at the moment of the Continental Congressional > > adoption of the relevant resolution initiating U.S. sovereignty, @ > > 4:48 pm (SAMVA rectification) on the late afternoon of July 2, 1776, > > the true birthday of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. From that moment > > on this historic date the on-going civil war between the governments > > of the American colonies and the colonial administration of the > > Government of Great Britain was then transformed to be > > a revolutionary war between the American states and George III's > > State of Great Britain. On July 2nd, 1776 the break with the British > > State became reality; the civil war thenceforth a > > revolution. > > > > > (The first historic action of the then just days old " United States > > in General Congress Assembled " was that of the broadside proclamation > > of the Declaration of Independence, its text completed and dated on > > Thursday July 4th then published on Friday July 5th. This, the > > American nation's first State Document: In its practical effect, the > > mundane equivalent of a birth certificate dated July 4th recording > > the accomplished sovereign birth of the USA of Tuesday July 2nd, and > > not as popularly misunderstood, a mystical document, " somehow " in and > > of itself, occasioning a July 4th time moment of birth.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Dear Professor, On account of debilitated Mercury, let me clarify it a little bit. I am not fully engrossed with the work of getting a US chart anymore. I WAS! The chart is already there. In that process, I must say that the help received from Mr. John TWB was really very precious. What I am trying to do since July 2004 is to " travel " , country by country, and see if I can get the same for the entire world. I am doing that just for fun, because it makes me happy. That’s all. In all this process, I must say that your Systems' Approach has been of an enormous help. Thank you very much for giving it to the world. Best wishes, Jorge SIHA [siha] sexta-feira, 25 de Março de 2005 06:40 SAMVA Re: US Chart. Hello Mr. John, I know you and Mr. Jorge are fully engrossed with the work of getting a US chart which would be historically and astrologically correct. I personally am not in a position to devote more time to this subject. Best wishes for success in your efforts. - " John T W B " <jtwbjakarta <SAMVA > Friday, March 25, 2005 11:23 AM Re: US Chart. > Hi Professor > > Naturally, with all due respect to your sage advice, I maintain the following. > > Mundane astrologers are bound by the apriori framework of rational discourse, as are all practitioners of the sciences. Furthermore, the mundane astrologer is not permitted ever to disregard the historical record, any more than the natal astrologer can blythely disregard the actual birth record of his client. > > To declare March 1, 1781 as the birth of the American nation is " absurd " , as I have maintained already. All the astrological rectifying tests in the world will not make this event other than it is: i.e., the birth date of America's government. This is not unique to America. This distinction between nation and government is generically so. For an example closer to home, India as a nation was born on August 15, 1947; yet that nation's government was born years later, on on Republic Day in January 1950. The distinction between nation and government is not arbitrary. Each of these two birth charts is telling a different story, however parallactically related. It's the task of the mundane astrologer to recognize the generic difference and then explore the significances for analytical and predictive purposes. > > As for rectification as such, where the time record on a given date is indeterminate, then of course what you have just commented is quite indisputable. In fact, Jorge Angelino has performed just such a task on the American " nation's " chart: July 2, 1776. The authoritative historical research, at best, places the enacting moment of Congress on July 2nd 1776 no earlier than 2:00 pm and no later than 6:00 pm. The record is no more precise than this 4 hour interval. Jorge has identified 4:48 pm as the most probable, based on his standard tests. Of course, let the community criticize if they will and possibly improve upon his findings. Perhaps there is another time-moment in this 4 hour interval that improves on his work. However, the critic is not doing service to mundane astrology, by hypothetiical example, if the critic were to insist that because it may be determined that the Sun was exactly, to-the-arc-minute, conjunct the star Sirius at 6:00am that July 2nd day, and further because > this critic finds some correlating events for that time, that therefore his advocacy of 6:00 am should have equal veracity with Jorge's 4:48 pm is just unfounded assertion. Let that critic argue correlations until he is blue in the face, yet he cannot change the historical fact that nothing happened in the Continental Congress at 6:00 am. The Congress opened its doors at 9:00 am. > > Now one may object that my illustration is unrealistically argued. Ok, so I now bring the focus closer to the actuality of recent exoperience; I would like to draw attention to the veritable hornets nest of astrologers' disputes over the mythical 4th of July birthday of the American nation. I have at my desk, for example, a book by Mr Gar Osten, entitled THE ASTROLOGICAL CHART OF THE UNITED STATES, published by Stein & Day, New York, 1976. Mr Osten maintains that the true rectified birth day and time of the American nation is not July 2nd, as maintained by the recognized authorities in the historical profession at least since the year 1850, but July 4th, and at 3:00 am no less (Yes!, in the heart-of-darkness morning, he really means " a.m. " ). This is surely breath-taking in its audacious disregard of the relevant history of Congress' daily schedule. Even conspiratorial Masons, possibly Hancock and Franklin on the inside of Congress, and George Clymer and Thomas Paine in the > neighborhood, were wont to find a good night's sleep in that era, as Masons do in our own. But a legislative adoption at 3:00 am ???? Please !!! > > As background to Osten's eccentricity, Nicholas Campion tells the story of America's most prominent 19th astrologer, Luke Broughton, who cast a horoscope for 2:15 am on July 4th. Many astrologers have since folowed him, but on a road to the absurd, in utter disregard of Broughton's stated assumptions, which were not in the least scientific in pretense. Broughton obviously didn't care about science. Broughton simply maintained that the American Nation is Gemini in persona, and so he put Gemini (Tropical) on the July 4th ascendant and worked his rectification from there. Osten doesn't have even that much defense. He devotes 260 pages to all the correlating events he maintains substantiates the predictive value and integrity of the 3:00 am Jul;y 4th 1776 Chart. To characterize this as lunatic, as well as at the same tiome silly is to be charitable. To say it is unscientific is to grasp firmly the obvious. And so it goes for the rest of the prominent astrologers who mystically divine > the true birth date and time-moment of the American nation to be on July 4th. These astrologers, all, are drilling a dry well; On July 4th America was already in the 2nd day of existence. > > History must necessarily be a stern task master for the mundane astrologer. I've been kind enough to Grimes, who obviously decided that the historical record, beyond the day of the month of March in 1781 was of no consequence in establishing " his " birthchart of the American nation. This is thoroughly unscientific in attitude. It remains, in the two major respects I summarized in my previouis message, what serious study of his arguments must disclose, " absurd " . > > In closing I append excerpted statements from the top historians over the past 150 years, all declaring their findings that July 2nd was the birth date of America. Not one of them confused this birth date with the birth date of the national government on March 1, 1781. Grimes does so get it confused. He's not doing science; he at best painting pictures of his own imagination. No rectifying exercise can alter the falsity of his investigations. > > > > With my very best wishes to you sir (and to Haryana, of course), > > > > John > > > > EACH OF THESE 15 SCHOLARS QUOTED HERE BELOW EXPLAINS WHY JULY 2nd, not JULY 4th, IS AMERICA's BIRTH DAY : > > > > > > [01] Benson J. Lossing, PICTORIAL FIELD BOOK OF THE REVOLUTION (1850); [02] Peter Force, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1855); [03] George Bancroft, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, Vol. II (1860); [04] Thomas Wentworth Higginson, THE STORY OF THE SIGNING (1876); [05] Mellen Chamberlain, THE AUTHENTICATION OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1885); [06] Herbert Friedenwald, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1904); [07] John H. Hazelton, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: IT'S HISTORY (1906); [08] John W. Burgess, SOVEREIGNTY AND LIBERTY (1890) and THE RECONCILIATION OF GOVERNMENT WITH LIBERTY (1915); [09] Carl L. Becker, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1922); [10] John C Fitzpatrick, THE SPIRIT OF THE REVOLUTION (1924); [11] Edmund C. Burnett, THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS (1941); [12] Charles Warren, FOURTH OF JULY MYTHS (1945); [13] John R. Alden, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION (1954) and A HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION (1969); [14] Katherine and John Bakeless, SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION (1969); > [15] Gary Wills, INVENTING AMERICA: JEFFERSON'S DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1978); [16] John Ferling, THE ROCKY ROAD TO REVOLUTION (2004). > > > > > > [01] Benson J. Lossing, PICTORIAL FIELD-BOOK OF THE REVOLUTION, Vol. II (New York, 1850): > > > > " Richard Henry Lee's resolution, declaring the colonies " free and independent states, " was adopted on the 2nd of July, and that day, rather than the 4th, should be celebrated as our national anniversary. It was only the form of the Declaration, which accompanied the resolution that was adopted on the latter day. (p.280). > > > > > > [02] Peter Force, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: Or Notes on Lord Mahon's History of the American Declaration of Independence. (London, 1855): > > > > " The Resolution on Independency (adopted on July 2nd) and the Declaration of Independence (adopted on July 4th) were 'separate' and 'distinct' measures before Congress, proposed at different times, considered at different times, and decided at different times; that the Resolution was the great question of American Independence-the Declaration was the announcement of Independence to the world " (p38). " The adoption of this Resolution on the 2nd of July, 1776 was the termination of all lawful authority of the King over the thirteen United Colonies -made by this act of the Congress of the thirteen United States of America " .... " This was the day on which was consummated the most important measure that had ever been debated in America " . " The Declaration of Independence was adopted on July 4th by the vote of twelve States, the same that 2 days before had as Colonies passed the act of Independency. " (p.59) .. " It was also printed and circulated among > the people.It was read everywhere.It was this universal diffusion of the Declaration that made the 4th of July the great festival day of the nation, instead of the 2nd day of July, the real birthday of American freedom. " (p.60). > > > > > > [03] Thomas Wentworth Higginson, historian, THE STORY OF THE SIGNING: 1776 > > published in Scribner's Monthly, Vol. XII, No. 3 (July 1876). > > > > " John Adams was mistaken in one prediction about the birth of U.S. Independence: It is the Fourth of July, not the Second, which has been accepted by Americans as the " most memorable epocha " . This is one of the many illustrations of the fact that words as well as deeds are needful, since a great act may seem incomplete until it has been put into a fitting form of words. It was the vote of July 2nd that changed the thirteen colonies into independent States; the Declaration of Independence only promulgated the fact and assigned its reasons. Had this great proclamation turned out to be a confused or ill-written document, it would never have eclipsed in fame the original Resolution, which certainly had no such weak side. " (p.295) > > > > > > [04] George Bancroft, U.S. diplomat and historian, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, Vol. II in HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES from the Discovery of the American Continent, Vol. VIII (Boston, 1860): > > > > " American independence was not an act of sudden passion, nor the work of one man or one assembly. It had been discussed in every part of the country by farmers and merchants, by mechanics and planters, by the fishermen along the coast and by the backwoodsmen of the West; in town meetings and from the pulpit; at social gatherings and around the camp fires; in newspapers and in pamphlets; in county conventions and in conferences of committees; in colonial congresses and assemblies. The decision on Independency was put off only to hear the voice of the people. " (p.432). " The July 2nd > > Resolution of Congress changed the old thirteen British colonies into free and independent states. It remained to set forth the reason for this act, and the principle which the new people would own as their guides " (p.462) " The war was no longer a Civil War; Britain was become to the United States a foreign country. " (p.474) " But the states which were henceforth independent of Britain were not independent of one another; the United States of America assumed powers over war, peace, foreign alliances, and commerce. " ... > > > > > > [05] Mellen. Chamberlain, historian and the Librarian, the Boston Public Library. .... > > THE AUTHENTICATION OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. ..... > > (Boston, 1885); a monograph reprinted from the Proceedings of the Massachusetts Historical Society, November, 1884; and reprinted again in JOHN ADAMS, THE STATESMAN OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION with Other Essays and Addresses. (Boston, 1898): > > > > " When Lee's resolution for Independency was agreed to by the Congress on the 2nd of July, the battle had been fought and the victory won. " .. " What was done on July 2nd realized the ardent wishes of the patriotic party in the thirteen colonies. Its consummated act was a notable achievement of advocacy; and the great patriot, John Adams, fondly hoped that it would be celebrated to the remotest times. But it is otherwise: the glory of the act is overshadowed by the glory of its annunciation. " (p.27). > > > > > > [06] Herbert Friedenwald, former Chief, Manuscript Division, Library of Congress. ... > > THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: An Interpretation and an Analysis... > > (New York, 1904 and reprinted 1974): > > > > " For the diffusion of popular misconception respecting the signing of the Declaration of Independence there is ample warrant, in that the two principle sources of information which should be authoritative are misleading. They are an incorrectly printed journal of the proceedings of the Congress, and a carelessly composed heading to the engrossed document. " (p.134). " The engrossed document is itself largely responsible for the erroneous views which have been held respecting the date of the signing. Being headed by the legend, 'In Congress, July 4th 1776' and ending with the 56 signatures, the natural inference to be made, until better information was available, was that this official document was signed on that day. It is further misinforming in its title 'The Unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America', under the date July 4th; for on that day only 12 States took part in the ballot. " (p148). > > > > > > [07] John H. Hazelton, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: ITS HISTORY... (New York, 1906 and reprinted 1970): > > > > " The 2nd of JULY, and NOT the 4th of JULY, therefore, was the day upon which America declared her independence.'Independence of that nation whose morning drum beat', in the language of Daniel Webster, 'following the sun, and keeping company with the hours, circles the earth with one continuous and unbroken strain of the martial airs of England'. " (p166). > > > > > > [08a] John W Burgess, Founder of the Dept of Political Science, Columbia University . POLITICAL SCIENCE AND COMPARATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW: ........ Volume I: SOVEREIGNTY AND LIBERTY (New York, 1890): > > > > " The first enduring form of the American state was the Continental Congress; there was something more on this side of the Atlantic than thirteen local governments. There was a sovereignty, a state; not in idea simply or upon paper, but in fact and in organization. The revolution was an accomplished fact before the Declaration of 1776, and so was independence. The act of the 4th of July was a notification to the world of a 'fait accomplis'. A nation and a state did not spring into existence through that declaration, as dramatic publicists are wont to express it. Nations and States do not spring into existence. The significance of the declaration as Proclamation was this: a people testified thereby the consciousness of the fact that they had become , in the progressive development of history, one whole, separate, and adult nation, and a national state, and that they were determined to defend this natural status against the now no longer natural supremacy of a foreign state " (p.100) > > > > [08b] John W. Burgess, Founder of the Dept of Political Science, Columbia University. THE RECONCILIATION OF GOVERNMENT WITH LIBERTY (New York, 1915) > > > > " After May 1775 this second Continental Convention (The term 'Congress' has been too much connected with Government to designate correctly this body), began to assume constituent powers, that is, the powers of sovereignty: it created an army, a navy, a treasury and a post office.Further in May 1776, upon proposition that it create a uniform system of local Government to take the place, of the British Colonial Governments, it authorized, under form of suggestion, the inhabitants of the several Colonial Territories to create local governmental institutions for themselves on the basis of the broadest possible suffrage. Finally, after all this constructive constituent work had been done, this second Continental 'Convention' declared, in the name and by the authority of the good people of the Colonies, the United Colonies to be free and independent. National unity and National sovereignty PRECEDED thus the Declaration of Independence AND PRODUCED IT. " (p.294) > > > > > > [09] Carl Lotus Becker, a past president, American Historical Association ...... THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: A Study in the History of Political Ideas. (New York, 1922 and reprinted 1942 with a new 14 page Author's Introduction): > > > > " A book on this subject would naturally begin by noting with some precision what the famous document purported to be. It turned out not be the formal act of separation from Great Britain, voted by Congress on July 2nd, but " A DECLARATION " of July 4th, designed to convince a " candid world " that the separation was necessary and right - in short, an argument in support of an action. " (p.ix, in the 1942 Knopf edition only). " It is often forgotten that the document which we know as the Declaration of Independence is not the official act by which the Continental Congress voted in favor of separation from Great Britain. Richard Henry Lee's Resolution on Independency was finally voted by the Continental Congress on the 2nd of July, 1776. Strictly speaking, this was the official Declaration of Independence; and if we were a nation of antiquaries we should no doubt find an incongruity in celebrating the anniversary of our independence on the 4th of July. " (p3). " This title of the document, > 'The Declaration of Independence', is not, strictly speaking, the official title of the document in question. The document never knew itself, in any of its various forms, by that name. Jefferson, in making the first draft, gave it the following title: 'A DECLARATION by the Representatives of the United States of America in General Congress assembled'. This title was retained in all copies of the Declaration, except the engrossed parchment copy with the title and stile of 'The UNANIMOUS DECLARATION of the thirteen united States of America'. It is true, the Declaration, in the form adopted by Congress, incorporates in its final paragraph the Resolution of July 2nd; and so the Declaration may be said to be a declaration of independence, as much as in it Congress once more declared what it had already declared two days before. Nevertheless, the primary purpose of the Declaration was not to declare independence, but to proclaim to the world the reasons for declaring independence. It was > intended as a formal justification of an act already accomplished. " (p 4) > > > > > > [10] John C. Fitzpatrick, A.M, Assistant Chief, Manuscript Division, Library of Congress THE SPIRIT OF THE REVOLUTION: New Light from Some of the Original Sources of American History. (Washington, D.C., 1924 and reprinted 1970): > > > > " The June 7, 1776 Lee Resolution on Independency was heatedly debated for nearly a month, but from the first it was apparent that eventually it would be adopted. It would be the great and final casting of the die of separation, and Congress felt that a form of announcement of that step would be needed that would be more impressive, more of an attention riveting manifesto, than the short and concise wording of Lee's Resolution would present. " (p.04) " On July 2nd, Lee's Resolution on Independency was adopted, and immediately thereafter Jefferson's draft of the Declaration of independence was taken up as unfinished business in the committee of the who le, and on July 4th, 1776 the finally revised draft was agreed to by Congress as the form of the announcement that the United Colonies had, on July 2nd, become free and independent States. July 2nd is the day upon which the United States became a nation, and on July 4th we declared " to a candid world " the action taken on July 2nd. (p.07) > " The Declaration of Independence was composed for the single purpose of justifying to the world the breaking away of the Colonies from Great Britain. It was designed to introduce, in the most persuasive and convincing form, the right and justice of the adoption of Richard Henry Lee's resolution > > of Independency. " (p.23). > > > > > > [11] Edmund C. Burnett, Historical Research Dept., Carnegie Institute, Washington, D.C. THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS 1774-1789. (New York, 1941, reprinted 1964): > > > > " Thus at last did Congress, on the 2nd July, 1776 after long hesitation and not a little squirming, resolve that henceforth that the United Colonies are and should be free and independent States. To all intents and purposes this resolution was the conclusion of the whole matter. " (p.184) " The colonies through their Congress had indeed declared for independence, but the bare assertion of independence was not sufficient. The reasons therefore must be set forth explicitly, must be marshaled in a form and a manner that would not only convince Americans, but would inspire them to go to the hazard of its maintenance. Moreover, the facts must be submitted to a candid world, for the good opinion of the candid world might prove to be essential to the success of their cause. (p.185). > > > > > > [12] Charles Warren, FOURTH OF JULY MYTHS ............... (The William and Mary Quarterly, Third Series, Vol. II, No. 3, July 1945). > > > > " It is a singular fact that the greatest event in American history-the Declaration of Independence-has been the subject of more incorrect popular belief, more bad memory on the part of participants, and more false history than any other occurrence in our national life " ... " The first mistaken popular belief is that the Fourth of July is the anniversary of American Independence. The fact is that Independence Day was properly the day on which Congress passed the resolution which actually established our Independence; and that day was July 2nd 1776 and not July 4th, 1776. " (p.237), " The second mistaken belief, long popularly held, is that the Declaration of Independence was signed on July 4, 1776. Most Americans have seen either a facsimile or the original document now in the Library of Congress, with the names signed at the end; and most believe that it was signed on the day that the Congress on July 4, 1776 adopted it. This belief was generally held for over one hundred years. The > fact is, however, that it was NOT so signed; and historians are now agreed on this point. " (p.242). > > > > > > [13a] John Richard Alden, THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION 1775-1783 (N.Y., 1954) > > > > The delegates of the second Continental Congress in the Pennsylvania State House heard Richard Henry Lee formally propose on June 7 a resolution calling for a declaration of independence, an American confederation, and attempts to secure alliances with powers of Continental Europe. " (p.80) " At long last on July 2 the patriots, setting aside doubts and fears, at least for the moment, had pledged themselves to the creation of a new nation. > > .A day in July, 1776, did indeed become memorable to Americans, but it was, perversely, the fourth rather than the second day. On the fourth the Congress voted to approve that famous document, the Declaration of Independence, in which the patriots informed a candid world why they had undertaken to form the United States of America. Americans have celebrated the day on which the justification was approved, not the day of the deed. " (p.81) > > > > [13b] John R. Alden, A HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION (N.Y., 1969): > > > > " Why it is that the Americans do not, and never did, handsomely celebrate the anniversary of July 2nd, a day of so great importance in their history? Because, in faulty memory, they afterward recalled that the Patriots tore free from the shackles > > of tyrannical George III on July 4th " ... " The Declaration of Independence repeated and defended the Lee Resolution in such extraordinary fashion that the decision taken two days earlier on July 2nd was forgotten. The recollections of the ablest of men, even those concerning the most momentous events, are not to be trusted. The author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson himself, later remembered July 4th as the day on which America announced her freedom. " (p.241). > > > > > > [14] Katherine and John Bakeless, historians, SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION ... > > (Houghton Mifflin Company Boston, 1969). > > > > " THE FOURTH OF JULY is the day on which Americans commemorate the independence of their country. Though there are several other days we might celebrate as Independence Day, the Second Continental Congress, in 1776, formally adopted the final revision of the Declaration of Independence on the Fourth of July. The United Colonies were already independent, for Congress had passed a resolution declaring independence two days before, on July 2nd, 1776. All the formal Declaration of Independence did was to state formally to the world, and especially to the British Empire, what Congress had decided and why. . We could celebrate July 2nd, the day independence was actually voted. . It wasn't really necessary to have the Declaration of Independence at all. " (p.1) > > > > > > [15] Gary Wills, Journalist & Historian, INVENTING AMERICA: JEFFERSON'S DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, (Doubleday & Co., New York, 1978). > > > > " The general structure and strategy of argument in the Declaration was affected by the petitioning process. The language of a mutual pledge at the end, and the insertion of Lee's resolution of independence, gave the document some appearance of a charter; yet it could not be a formal compact of government, since the colonies had withheld the power to make such a pledge from their delegates.Actually there was no confusion at the time about the document's genre. It was a paper issued subsequent to an action in order to explain that action. " (p.334) > > > > " The very precision of the term, a declaration, would lead to later confusion. This was perhaps unavoidable, since state declaration had two quite different meanings in the legal literature familiar to Jefferson's fellows in the Congress. Declaration sometimes meant just the explanation of an act. But at other times declaring was the act itself-e.g., when a sovereign declares war. William of Orange's Declaration was just an explanation; but one of the things that led to that document was James II's Declaration for Liberty of Conscience of April 4, 1687-an instrument that effected the state it described. The Parliament's Declaration of Rights was both explanatory (describing the failure of petitions to James) and declaratory of an effect (the naming of William and Mary as King and Queen), Jefferson's Declaration is explanatory of an act; but the act itself had been declaratory. Declaring independence, like declaring war, is an act of state. That act was accomplished on July 2, > when the Congress voted on Lee's resolution that the colonies 'are [at that very moment], and of right ought to be, free and independent states.' The condition of independence was declared to exist, already, at that vote.Those immediately involved in the process understood, at the outset, the difference between declaring as an act and the Declaration as an explanation of that act. " (p.336) > > > > > > [16] John Ferling, Professor Emeritus of History, State University of West Georgia, > > " The Rocky Road to Revolution, " SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE, (July 2004) > > http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian/issues04/jul04/editorsnote.htm l > > > > Carey Winfrey, Editor of the SMITHSONIAN, writes to introduce John Ferling: " Professor Ferling reminds us of the contentious debates of 1776 that finally led the Second Continental Congress to declare independence from England. The historic vote was taken on that fateful July 2nd, 1776 " . " That's right, " says Ferling. " July 2nd! I like to grill outside or picnic on July 2nd. I feel that I am remembering the proper day, and it also enables me to celebrate twice - on the real Independence Day and two days later on the contrived holiday. " > POSTSCRIPT > > > U.S. Independence Celebrated on the Wrong Day? > > > John Roach > for National Geographic News > > July 2, 2004 > > On Sunday, the Fourth of July, millions of U.S. citizens will fire up the barbeque and shoot off fireworks in celebration of the Declaration of Independence, a now-sacred document that declares the independence of what were then 13 united colonies from England. > > > But the Continental Congress voted for the Declaration of Independence on the second of July in 1776. No one signed it until August 2, and the last signatures didn't come until the end of November. > > " The only thing that happened on the fourth was they approved the document, " said Ronald Hoffman, director of the Omohundro Institute of Early American History and Culture at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia. > > Several members of the Congress who voted for independence never signed the document, and several members who signed the document, were absent when the vote was taken, Hoffman added. > > John Adams, the second President of the United States, was in 1776 a delegate to the Continental Congress representing the colony of Massachusetts. He wrote in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776, that " the second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epocha in the history of America. " > > Pauline Maier, a professor of U.S. history and authority on the American Revolution, said that " in 1777, Congress didn't think of recalling the event until it was too late to celebrate the second, and the fourth became standard. " > > And much to the chagrin of Adams-who played an active role in revising drafts of the declaration into its final form-Virginia representative Thomas Jefferson, who drafted the original, took much of the credit as the sole author of the document. > > " John Adams's claim to share in the glory of independence was well founded, " Maier said. " He did far more than Jefferson to bring Congress to the point of approving separation from Britain. " > > Coincidentally, Jefferson and Adams both died on July 4, 1826, 50 years after the Declaration of Independence was approved. > > Declaring Independence > > Gordon Wood, a history professor at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, said that today many U.S. citizens fail to understand the gravity of the Declaration of Independence. > > " Most people don't think about it too much, " he said. " It's an occasion for cookouts and firecrackers, but at the time it was a big deal-breaking away from the British Empire and establishing independence. " > > The declaration sets forth a list of grievances with the King of England, George III, that justified a breaking of ties between the colonies and the mother country. At the time, the British Empire was all-powerful. A group of colonies breaking away was an unprecedented event, Wood said. > > " Now Britain seems like small potatoes compared to the power of the U.S. The whole relationship has been reversed, " he said. > > The declaration was drafted by a committee of five appointed by the Continental Congress on June 11, 1776. Members included Adams of Massachusetts, Roger Sherman of Connecticut, Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania, Robert Livingston of New York, and Jefferson of Virginia. > > The committee selected Jefferson to draft the document, which members of the committee revised and then submitted to the Continental Congress on June 28. The Congress tabled it. > > " After approving a resolution on Independence submitted by Richard Henry Lee on July 2, Congress took up the tabled draft declaration and, as a committee of the whole, edited it, then finally approved the version it had edited on July 4, " Maier said. > > Slavery Debate > > According to Hoffman, the debate over Jefferson's original draft was heated. > > " Jefferson's original draft included a strong condemnation of slavery and the slave trade, " he said. " The southern delegation wouldn't go along with it, so Jefferson backed off and allowed it to be removed. " > > The removal of the antislavery language, according to Hoffman, left Jefferson feeling like the British had the moral high ground. The last royal governor of Virginia, John Murray, fourth Earl of Dunmore, had offered freedom to any slaves who joined in the fight on the side of the king. > > " Jefferson felt the rebels needed to justify the revolution on behalf of equality, and you can't have equality when you have a society based on slavery, " Hoffman said. " Jefferson's inability to square that circle embedded the contradiction between slavery and freedom at the core of the founding of the United States. " > > Whether Jefferson felt he lost the moral high ground to the British or not, Maier said that today most Americans revere Jefferson as the father of independence itself and of the declaration. > > " We forget the large number of people who were involved, not only the drafting committee and in Congress, but in the towns, counties, and state legislatures that also declared their support for independence, often explaining their reasons in the late spring and early summer of 1776, " she said. > > Although Fourth of July celebrations were standard fare throughout the 19th century, the day was not an official paid holiday for federal employees until 1941. > > > > > > SIHA <siha wrote: > > Hello dear Mr. John TWB, > > I think we should change the subject of the message as US Chart. There is no > ghost of any chart. > > When there is an uncertain situation, lot of alternatives are tried and > finally the best one is adopted. > > So far before your expert advice was available, the efforts done by Mr. > Grimes appeared to be best amongst many proposed US charts. > > Whatever chart is adopted for predictions, it has to prove itself with the > past events and future predictions. > > Best wishes, > > > www.YourNetAstrologer.com > A-105 South City-II > Gurgaon-122101, > INDIA. > Ph: 91-124-2219240 > 91-9811016333 > > - > " John T W B " <jtwbjakarta > <SAMVA > > Friday, March 25, 2005 5:17 AM > To Exorcize The Ghost Of The GRIMES CHART: March 1, 1781 > > > > > > Hi Jorge, > > > > Herein follows what 3 months ago I neglected to forward to you for > > you files, the transcript from the Journals of the Continental > > Congress for February 24, 1781 outlining the calendar of events > > planned for the afternoon following the 12:00 noon ratification > > signing of the Articles of Confederation on March 1, 1781, the event > > which marked the birth moment of the national government of the > > United States. (And to clarify for the benefit of the uninitiated, > > this birth event of the American government should not be confused > > with the years earlier birth of America's body-politic, on July 2, > > 1776 (here, body politic as commonly understood, as " the nation " ). > > > > If nothing else I hope the ghost of the Grimes Chart for 3:19 pm on > > March 1, 1781 can be considered finally exorcized: A Chart > > wrongheaded for two crucial reasons: FIRST, March 1, 1781 is an event > > arising from the birth of government under America's first > > constitution, the Articles of Confederation, a constitution devised > > by representatives of the already existing nation, the United States. > > Therefore Grimes contention that this day is the birthday of the > > nation itself is just absurd, given the obvious implication that the > > already existing nation, the United States, fostered the birth of its > > own government on this same day; and SECOND, Grimes' rectification > > for the 3:19 pm time moment could only have been determined in a > > manner not unlike that of a consummate magician, as if a rabbit > > produced from a hat in a magic trick. How else to characterize a time > > moment choice where there is no historical record supporting this mid- > > afternoon time moment choice? So to the contrary, the record is > > unambiguously clear: IT HAPPENED AT 12:00 NOON when the two State of > > Maryland delegates to Congress signed the > > document. > > > > I invite everyone to read the following excerpt from the Journals of > > Congress for the Saturday before the day in question: > > > > JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS > > SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1781 > > > > Congress took into consideration the report of the committee > > appointed to report the mode of announcing the final ratification of > > the Articles of Confederation; Whereupon, > > That [on Thursday next at 12 o'Clock the final ratification of] the > > Confederation of the United States of America becompleted, by the > > execution thereof on the part of Maryland, at twelve o'clock on > > Thursday next, and that this important event be immediately announced > > to the publick,by the firing of thirteen cannon, and by the ringing > > of the bells in this city, (and that the Board of War and Board of > > Admiralty take order accordingly.) > > That thissame (Important Event) be also communicated to the > > Executives of the several States,and to the Commander-in-Chief they > > be requested to proclaim it in their respective states. > > That the several Ministers of these states in Europe beforthwith > > informed of the complete and final ratification of the said > > Confederation; and they beinstructed (ordered) tocommunicate (notify) > > the same to the respective courts at which they reside. > > That copies of the foregoing resolutions, with authentick information > > of the completion of the said Confederation, be transmitted to the > > Commander in Chief; and that he be directed topublish (announce) the > > same to the Army under hisimmediate command,and to the fleet and army > > of our most illustrious ally, in America. > > That the like information be transmitted to the commanding officer in > > the southern department, and that he be directed to announce the same > > to the Army under his command. > > That the Minister of France be also informed, that it is intended to > > complete and ratify the said Confederation on Thursday next; and that > > he be requested to make the earliest communication of the same to his > > Court.1 > > [Note : * This report, in the writing of George Walton, except the > > portions in brackets, which are in Charles Thomson's hand, and those > > in parentheses, which are in Samuel Huntington's hand, is in > > thePapers of the Continental Congress, No. 23, folio 29. It is also > > entered in No. 9, (History of the Confederation.) A part of the > > report, but separately presented, is the following: > > NOT OF RECORD > > That the Congress adjourn after completing the Confederation; and the > > President shall invite the Minister of France, the Speaker and > > members of the General Assembly, the Vice-President and members of > > the Supreme Executive Council, and the officers of the Army and Navy, > > to drink a glass of wine [to] " The United States of America. " A keg > > of biscuit, in the room of cake.* > > [Note *: * Does it mean the Cake room.] > > To be in the Hall where Congress sit. > > The last six words are in James Madison's hand. > > Another resolution, undated, in the writing of John Mathews, is in > > No. 36, IV, folio 423, as follows: > > Resolved that -- next be appointed for the Delegates of Maryland to > > sign the Confederation. > > That the President of the State of Pennsylvania the Minister of > > France, The Vice-President Council and assembly of Pennsylvania, the > > officers of the French and American Armies in this City, and all > > other public officers, be particularly invited to attend the ceremony > > and that the doors of the Congress chamber be opened at twelve oClock. > > That the Board of War be directed to give proper orders, for > > announcing the final ratification of theAmerican Confederacy of the > > United States by the discharge of thirteen cannon. > > That one of the Chaplains of Congressbe directed to prepare a > > suitable sermon for the occasion.] > > Resolved, That on Thursday next, at twelve o'clock, the final > > ratification of the Confederation of the United States > > of America, be announced to the public; and that the Board of War and > > Board of Admiralty take order accordingly: > > That this important event be communicated to the executives of the > > several states: > > That the several ministers of these states in Europe be informed of > > the complete and final ratification of the said Confederation; and > > that they be ordered to notify the same to the respective courts at > > which they reside: > > That it be also notified to the honorable the Minister > > Plenipotentiary of France: > > That information of the completion of the said Confederation be > > transmitted to the Commander in Chief, and that he be directed to > > announce the same to the army under his command. > > > > COMMENTARY: > > > > These thirteen UNITED STATES later devised the Articles of > > Confederation (resulting from deliberations carried on between July > > 12, 1776 and November 15, 1777) which Articles were finally duly > > ratified by the thirteen states with the signatures of the delegates > > from Maryland, the last of the thirteen states to do so, on March 1, > > 1781 @ 12:00 noon in Philadelphia (N.B.: 12:00 noon being the time > > moment in the officially established record, an astrologically un- > > rectified time moment based on an official Continental Congressional > > document dated February 22, 1781, in which document the precise time > > of signing on March 1 was so stipulated and later complied with. > > Please refer to the Journals of the Continental Congress for > > Saturday, February 24, 1781 for the exact time and related plans for > > that day. The contents of the document and the Journal's minutes for > > February 24th demonstrate that the much referred to Grimes Chart for > > that date's signing at the rectified time of 3:19 pm is based on an > > unsubstantiated time moment, and so is proven to be fallacious by the > > facts contained in the official documentary record, in the Papers of > > the Continental Congress, Folio No.9. > > > > > FURTHER RESEARCH IN SUPPORT OF THE FOREGOING SUMMARY CONTENTIONS > > REGARDING THE UNSUBSTANTIATED RECTIFICATION OF THE GRIMES CHART, > > CITING THE LETTERS AND JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS, AS WELL > > AS OTHER SUPPORTING REFERENCES, MAY BE FOUND IN THE EXTENDED COMMENT > > OF " JOHN T W B " AT ASTRODATABANK.COM, IN THE USA FEEDBACK SECTION, > > DATED NOVEMBER 16, 2004: > > > > > > > U.S.A. AND ITS GOVT: FROM CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION TO ARTICLES OF > > CONFEDERATION > > > > > Apropos an earlier message exchange in this Group during December > > 2004 on the matter of possible American national unity before 1776, > > here as a follow-up contribution is presented a brief look at the > > later historic results of efforts started with the FIRST CONTINENTAL > > CONGRESS convened in Philadelphia on September 05, 1774 and its > > initiation of the chain of events leading up to the birth of the USA > > on July 2, 1776, which birth of the American nation's sovereign > > states and their " limited " union prepared the way for the later > > constitutionally mandated birth of the U.S. Government on March 1, > > 1781, with the completion of the signing of the Articles of > > Confederation by the original 13 states, and so putting into effect > > the American nation-states' first constitution. > > > > > For mundane astrology this writer bears in mind that there are two > > major birth charts for any nation: first and foremost is the one for > > the State, then that for the Government created constitutionally by > > that State. In the case of the American nation there are: (1) the > > chart for the birth of the sovereign body-politic; the generic STATE > > (in the form of a " limited " union of States, the USA): dated July 2, > > 1776, which during its first week of life comprised a pre- > > constitutional " limited " union of 12 newly sovereign states of the > > newly stiled UNITED STATES (then after July 9th 13 states) and (2) > > the chart for the birth of the UNITED STATES' national GOVERNMENT > > under the constitutional terms of the Articles of Confederation, > > finally ratified on March 1, > > 1781. > > > > > (Indispensable Scholarship: For a classic work on the meanings and > > significance of the concepts: NATION, STATE and GOVERNMENT, one > > should refer to John W. Burgess, Professor of Political Science and > > Constitutional Law at Columbia University, his THE FOUNDATIONS OF > > POLITICAL SCIENCE (1933, reprinted 1992) presents exhaustive > > explanations by way of a scientific treatment, in terms of political > > science and constitutional law, of the substantive differentiation of > > a nation's state(s) and a nation's government.) > > > > > >From the start of the proceedings of the First Continental Congress, > > opened on September 5, 1774, there soon followed the creation of the > > formally adopted and documented CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION. Agreement to > > the adoption of the related resolution of this Association was > > reached shortly before 4:00 pm on October 18, 1774. Two days later, > > on October 20, 1774, the resulting authenticated document was signed > > by 12 of the 13 British American colonies (absent the colony of > > Georgia). From that date in 1774 the Continental Congress conducted > > itself under the " stile " of the UNITED COLONIES. Later on, the colony > > of Georgia joined the Continental Association, on September 13, 1775, > > at which time the membership of the Continental Association was > > then " re-stiled " THE THIRTEEN UNITED COLONIES, to become in the > > following year, at first, twelve UNITED STATES on July 2, 1776, then > > thirteen UNITED STATES on July 9, 1776 when New York was duly > > constituted in convention a sovereign state and resolved > > to join the Union with the other twelve states of the already > > established UNITED STATES. > > > > > This birth of the USA was first accomplished when 12 of 13 colonies > > were each constitutionally authorized to direct its delegates in the > > Continental Congress to formally resolve by voting for sovereign > > independence and its declaration, thereby establishing, then and > > there that July 2nd day in Philadelphia, the identities of these once > > British American colonies as simply yet absolutely American sovereign > > states, newly independent of the state of Great Britain. Their new > > collective identity as the UNITED STATES, no longer the UNITED > > COLONIES, was marked at the moment of the Continental Congressional > > adoption of the relevant resolution initiating U.S. sovereignty, @ > > 4:48 pm (SAMVA rectification) on the late afternoon of July 2, 1776, > > the true birthday of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. From that moment > > on this historic date the on-going civil war between the governments > > of the American colonies and the colonial administration of the > > Government of Great Britain was then transformed to be > > a revolutionary war between the American states and George III's > > State of Great Britain. On July 2nd, 1776 the break with the British > > State became reality; the civil war thenceforth a > > revolution. > > > > > (The first historic action of the then just days old " United States > > in General Congress Assembled " was that of the broadside proclamation > > of the Declaration of Independence, its text completed and dated on > > Thursday July 4th then published on Friday July 5th. This, the > > American nation's first State Document: In its practical effect, the > > mundane equivalent of a birth certificate dated July 4th recording > > the accomplished sovereign birth of the USA of Tuesday July 2nd, and > > not as popularly misunderstood, a mystical document, " somehow " in and > > of itself, occasioning a July 4th time moment of birth.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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