Guest guest Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Dear Tarun, You and I may have a different interepretion/ definition of the word " sacred " . i am using the definition found in an english dictionary. See below: sa·cred (s & #257;'kr & #301;d) pronunciation adj. 1. Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity. 2. Worthy of religious veneration: the sacred teachings of the Buddha. 3. Made or declared holy: sacred bread and wine. 4. Dedicated or devoted exclusively to a single use, purpose, or person: sacred to the memory of her sister; a private office sacred to the President. 5. Worthy of respect; venerable. As for me being confused about what i said about WHY the orange colour is worn by sanyaasis...well i am merely quoting Pandit Sanjay Rath. Some of us are satisfied with being told this is so or that is so. Some of us want to know WHY. If you wish to equate WHY orange is worn with it being sacred, you go right ahead. The Tulsi plant is considered sacred by all hindus. Where do you place Tulsidevi and the colour orange in the " spectrum " of " sacred " ? I know why the colour red is important in china and and green to the muslims. Is it that you wish to know WHY it is so or are you inferring that it is merely sacred? happy in my " confusion " ! charu sohamsa , " ~Tarun~ " <tarun.virgo wrote: > > Dear Charu, > > I guess you yourself are confused that Orange / Bhagwa is not our sacred colour. > > Well , one more thing that then why Red is colour in china and Green in middle-east. > > Regards, > > Tarun > > > - > charu2250 > sohamsa > Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:30 AM > Re: Vedic Clothes > > > Dear Tarun, > > About your last sentence asking about the colour orange.... > > Orange is not our vedic/sacred colour. Orange is the colour worn by > renouciates, by brahmcharis, by sanyaasis. That does not make them > vedic or sacred. Rishis of old if they were married did not wear orange. > > The reason for orange is that this color supresses venus, supresses > ojas and therefore assists in giving up all that is associated with > venus/shukra. Sex,and rajas guna things and activites, al the things > that a celibate and/or sanyaasi has to give up. > > peace > charu > > sohamsa , " ~Tarun~ " <tarun.virgo@> wrote: > > > > Dear Scholars, > > > > The Rishis were to wear different clothes, than the Kshatriya, > > The general people / farmer / traders, they were to wear different > clothes. > > The fabric used was different. > > > > The region, like the Kashi vishwanath 's traditional clothes or say > the Priest / Pujari wear different clothes than the south india. > > The Gujrati Clothes / Punjabi Clothes / Marathi Culture, Rajasthani > Culture. West Bengal, Kashmir. > > each state have different type of traditional clothing. > > > > The current Sari and Dhoti donot have direct relation with Vedic but > they have relation to the culture of the state. > > Sari is wore in different styles in each state. > > and the similar thing among all the rituals followed in india is the > COLOUR, and the colour can be termed as Vedic not the clothes. > > Nepal is pure Hindu Country and there culture is also different. > > > > Do Someone knows why Orange is our sacred / Vedic colour ?????? > neither red, nor green nor white ... > > > > Regards, > > > > Tarun > > > > > > > > > > - > > Rafal Gendarz > > sohamsa > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes > > > > > > hraum namah adityaya > > > > Dear Tijana, > > > > Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras > that I cant understand their arguments fully. > > > > It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing > to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. > > > > Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING. > > > > Thank You for help. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal@ > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com > > > > nix_nixen napisal(a): > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Dear Rafal, > > i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can > > imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-the famous > > story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long > > history of sari. > > One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes > > is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were > > done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian > > scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is > > traditional in clothes we are seeing today. > > Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message > > and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people > today > > (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood. > > As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and > > ornaments are important. > > Hope this helps in some way. > > Warm regards, > > Tijana > > > > sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@> wrote: > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > > > Dear Bharat, > > > > > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to > > culture > > > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate > > fact > > > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to > know how > > much > > > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp > > those > > > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who > > were > > > born in India. > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Rafal Gendarz > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > > email: rafal@ > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com > > > > > > > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a): > > > > > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal > > > > > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, > > isn't > > > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre > > robes > > > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have > > all > > > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > > > <starsuponme@>> wrote: > > > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishas, > > > > > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few > > > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not > > vedic > > > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which > > describe > > > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I > > tried to > > > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to > > form of > > > > that clothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Rafal Gendarz > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Dear Tarun, I never said I had a reference. If i had one I would have given it and not asked you As for me not having a reference making your answer more authentic is like saying. " The clear cut answer to 2+2 is 5. If you don't have an answer then 5 is more authentic than no answer!! " or: " The clear cut answer to ummm...the question " is there life on mars? is yes. I have seen and read various news items in the main stream media over the years, i can't quote any reference or research but the pharse " life on mars " kinda sticks in my head and i've seen a few pictures too and coz you don't have an answer, mine is more authentic " !!! ANY answer is not necessarily better or more authentic or correct then NO answer oft times! Lets just both remain happy in our own confusion eh?! peace charu sohamsa , " ~Tarun~ " <tarun.virgo wrote: > > Hello Charu, > > I donot have any reference but do u have reference to show the Clothes defined, and if you donot have anything to prove according to Vedas then my answer is more authentic. > > Regards, > > Tarun > > - > charu2250 > sohamsa > Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:33 AM > Re: Vedic Clothes > > > Dear Tarun, > > what is your reference for this seemingly very clear cut definite answer? > > peace > charu > > sohamsa , " ~Tarun~ " <tarun.virgo@> wrote: > > > > Dear Rafal, > > > > The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching that time. > > Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done > > they were to use cotton made fabrics. > > > > They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope this is > helps. > > > > Regards, > > > > tarun > > > > > > - > > Rafal Gendarz > > sohamsa > > Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes > > > > > > hraum namah adityaya > > > > Dear Tarun, > > > > Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in > Vedas - clear question. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal@ > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com > > > > > > ~Tarun~ napisaÅ‚(a): > > > >  > > > > Dear Rafal, > > > > cheer means cloth, not sari. > > > > Regards, > > > > Tarun > > > > - > > Rafal Gendarz > > sohamsa > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes > > > > > > hraum namah adityaya > > > > Dear Shailesh, > > > > #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana > (Panca-Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is > over. Agree? > > > > #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So > clothes also. > > > > #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal@ > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com > > > > > > Shailesh Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): > > > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | > > > > > > Dear Rafal, > > > > Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - to > answer. > > > > To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'. > > > > To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divine > knowledge - not human. > > > > Your question relates to human practices. > > > > Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no > written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is > no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time. > > > > The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally > refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', > 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing > - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as > Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so > welll-known. > > > > Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual' > knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would > not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably. > > > > So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately. > > > > Regards, > > > > Shailesh > > > > > > > > > > On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: > > hraum namah adityaya > > > > Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji, > > > > Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is > some form closest to Vedic? > > > > Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing? > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com > > > > > > Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): > > > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | > > > > > > > > Dear Rafal & Tijana, > > > > > > > > I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. > > > > > > > > Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes †" Dhoti > or saree †" with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? > > > > > > > > They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched > cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti †" the only > difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. > > > > > > > > So also for the head-gear, or turbans. > > > > > > > > These changed with the time, with the development of > tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Shailesh > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@ > . com] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM > > sohamsa@ .com > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes > > > > > > > > hraum namah adityaya > > > > Dear Tijana, > > > > Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from > the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully. > > > > It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS > have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. > > > > Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING. > > > > Thank You for help. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com > > > > nix_nixen napisaÅ‚(a): > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Dear Rafal, > > i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing > than we can > > imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- > the famous > > story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that > proves long > > history of sari. > > One of the important thing about sari and other > traditional clothes > > is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. > Modifications were > > done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably > only Indian > > scholars of history of clothing and costume could say > what is > > traditional in clothes we are seeing today. > > Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a > specific message > > and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis > of people today > > (especially from the west) is accidental or > half-understood. > > As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the > clothes and > > ornaments are important. > > Hope this helps in some way. > > Warm regards, > > Tijana > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz > <starsuponme@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > > > Dear Bharat, > > > > > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are > connected to > > culture > > > obviously. Differentation based on role in society > doesnt negate > > fact > > > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I > wanted to know how > > much > > > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and > saris (esp > > those > > > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy > for those who > > were > > > born in India . > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Rafal Gendarz > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > > email: rafal@ > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com > > > > > > > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a): > > > > > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal > > > > > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a > pramana to Satyam, > > isn't > > > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya > prescribed ochre > > robes > > > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and > Sanyasis have > > all > > > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore > different clothes. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > > > <starsuponme > wrote: > > > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishas, > > > > > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one > debate with few > > > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari > are not > > vedic > > > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas > which > > describe > > > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing > Dhoti/Sari? I > > tried to > > > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word > for Sari nor > > > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, > but to > > form of > > > > that clothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Rafal Gendarz > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ...> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com > <http://www.rohinaa. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Shailesh C Chadha > > > > #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, > > Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA > > Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ® > > (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 > > ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and > say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who > matter don't mind. > > - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who > don't will find an EXCUSE. > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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