Birth data of the 8 babies born in L.A.

[Guest guest]

Friends,

 

According to the information that I could gather the data are as followed:

 

26-January-2009

Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby out)

Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center

Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

 

As to the divisional charts - see for yourself... (I guess 2-3 of them

will also have the same D60).

 

Greetings

/Jay Weiss

[Guest guest]

Dear Nitish,Very well said, no argument about the times that you mention.However, the main issue here remains unknown (so far), which is " Who was delivered when " .8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds between each of them...

..... and here is where I place my question mark.I will try to get the exact details if possible AND if they were recorded (I guess they were so busy in the delivery room ...).Regards

/Jay Weiss 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Jay,

What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as there is a reason to

differentiate?

In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to 22deg Pi (i.e. 50

shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't it like hearing a

music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event emphasizes the

importance of prana-pada.

Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada, there is a reason

to differentiate just by combining the three important divisionals

representative of karmic pattern being derived from matrilineal,

patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40, D-45 and D-60

resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

-----------------------------

Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 = 10. However, some

of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

 

E.g. Look at some of these changes

10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

-------------------------

10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and D-40 ---> Vi

10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

-------------------------

Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5 minutes, and therefore

only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising in these three

charts taken together. This implies that differentiation needs to be

made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-45+D-40 in the same

way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct changes. This

number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct individuals to be

born at the same place in a given interval. It will also prove to be

a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind of higher

knowledge - just in the same way that all those things that limit us

do upon transgression.

 

So, unless we are willing to accept that physical vehicle is all

there is in the karmic unfoldment of an individual, we must be open

to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma vehicle behind it as

the driving force in determining ones' karmic destiny. In a way, this

proves the failure of purely physical karmic astrological basis,

which is a good point to start enquiry into nature of Prana-pada.

 

Any comments to explore this further are appreciated. If we have a

good discussion on this topic, i will put this up as a post on my

blog.

 

http://wisdomarchives.blogspot.com

 

Regards,

Nitish

 

sohamsa , " J. Weiss " <weissjay wrote:

>

> Friends,

>

> According to the information that I could gather the data are as

followed:

>

> 26-January-2009

> Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby out)

> Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center

> Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

>

> As to the divisional charts - see for yourself... (I guess 2-3 of

them

> will also have the same D60).

>

> Greetings

> /Jay Weiss

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jay,According to one of the reports on the net, following were the recorded times:A - 10:43B - 10:44C - 10:45D - 10:45E - 10:46F - 10:47G - 10:48But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.

Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss <weissjay wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Nitish,Very well said, no argument about the times that you mention.However, the main issue here remains unknown (so far), which is " Who was delivered when " .

8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds between each of them...

..... and here is where I place my question mark.I will try to get the exact details if possible AND if they were recorded (I guess they were so busy in the delivery room ...).Regards

/Jay Weiss 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

 

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Jay,

What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as there is a reason to

differentiate?

In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to 22deg Pi (i.e. 50

shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't it like hearing a

music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event emphasizes the

importance of prana-pada.

Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada, there is a reason

to differentiate just by combining the three important divisionals

representative of karmic pattern being derived from matrilineal,

patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40, D-45 and D-60

resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

-----------------------------

Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 = 10. However, some

of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

 

E.g. Look at some of these changes

10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

-------------------------

10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and D-40 ---> Vi

10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

-------------------------

Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5 minutes, and therefore

only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising in these three

charts taken together. This implies that differentiation needs to be

made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-45+D-40 in the same

way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct changes. This

number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct individuals to be

born at the same place in a given interval. It will also prove to be

a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind of higher

knowledge - just in the same way that all those things that limit us

do upon transgression.

 

So, unless we are willing to accept that physical vehicle is all

there is in the karmic unfoldment of an individual, we must be open

to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma vehicle behind it as

the driving force in determining ones' karmic destiny. In a way, this

proves the failure of purely physical karmic astrological basis,

which is a good point to start enquiry into nature of Prana-pada.

 

Any comments to explore this further are appreciated. If we have a

good discussion on this topic, i will put this up as a post on my

blog.

 

http://wisdomarchives.blogspot.com

 

Regards,

Nitish

 

sohamsa , " J. Weiss " <weissjay wrote:

>

> Friends,

>

> According to the information that I could gather the data are as

followed:

>

> 26-January-2009

> Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby out)

> Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center

> Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

>

> As to the divisional charts - see for yourself... (I guess 2-3 of

them

> will also have the same D60).

>

> Greetings

> /Jay Weiss

>

[Guest guest]

~~~ Om Shree Ghaneshaaye Namaha ~~~~~~ Om Shree Ridhi Sidhi Devi Namaha ~~~

Dear Friend

Namaskaram

Although there date place time is same yet their name and nature is not going to be same even their mind is not going to be same because in five minutes if your see the Deha Dasa in JHora these are going to be different because if you can see the closer patter some time even seconds shifting gives different at the time of BTR. 1,7,10. Above all if more closely you can see their different parents based prarabhdh.

Thanks

Tem Pram Chopra

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 10:28 PM, J. Weiss <weissjay wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Friends,According to the information that I could gather the data are as followed:26-January-2009Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby out)Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center

Los Angeles, Ca. USA.As to the divisional charts - see for yourself... (I guess 2-3 of themwill also have the same D60).Greetings/Jay Weiss

[Guest guest]

Dear Nitish,I am well aware of the Pranapada rule and use it daily as well. However, as I mentioned earlier the average of 5/8 (37 sec.) makes it very interesting here 'IF' (1) two babies were born within this time frame (2) some will have the Pranapada NOT in trines.

Certainly an interesting issue/case for validation, something that I always advocated under the cover name of 'Statistics'.

Best regards/Jay Weiss

2009/1/28 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

 

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Jay, Sanjay,

 

Long time ago, I had read a rule by Pt. Sanjay Rath about using

pranapada lagna for birth time rectification. See link:

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic astrology-jyotisha/341103-

pranapada-rectification-srs-dialogues-zoran.html

 

Here is the relevant text from the link:

 

" ....Check# Not deviating from the point, see the navamsa position of

the Pranapada and that of the Lagna or Moon. These must be in trines/

seventh house. In the above example, the Pranapada is in Virgo 9Deg

49 Min or Pisces navamsa and the Moon is also in Pisces navamsa as

he Lagna is in Scorpio Navamsa. Thus both lagna and Lunar checks

work. Some authors try to apply these checks in the Rasi chart and

often get very inaccurate results and have to shift the time by many

hours to achieve the result!! Please keep this to yourself as it will

be appearing in my next book onbirth time rectification.... "

 

The Navamsa lagna (Ta) and Navamsa Moon (Ge) don't change sign

from 10:43 to 10:48.

Now, given that 8 babies were born in 5 minutes, and that

pranapada lagna moves a navamsa in every 40 seconds, In 5 minutes,

the pranapada lagna will move continuously from Ge to Cp navamsa,

with reference to static reference points of Navamsa Lagna and Moon.

This rule implies that a baby will not be born for some 80 seconds

i.e. when PP goes to Cn and Le (from 10:43:31 - 10:44:51), none of

which are in trines/7th from lagna/Moon. Thus, we cannot have Baby B

being really born. Also, this will imply a loss of 2 out of our 7

unique slots in the D60,D45,D40 idea leaving us with only 5 distinct

sets. Thus, implying that 7 babies have to be put closely together in

10:45 - 10:48 and with 4 unique slots.

 

Clearly, this needs to be explored precisely with additional data

as it can tell us important information about the VALIDITY of this

birth-time rectification rule.

 

I think this rule could only be validly applied in D-60 and not in

D-9, as we will get 27 (4+8+7+8) out of 50 shastyamsa in 5 minutes

that satisfy this condition. And these are ample to allow for 8

babies to be born. May be if we employ another conditional constraint

on Pranapada in D-40 and D-45 (17-19 slots each), and find the

overlaps with D-60 (27 slots), we could get even better with the

correctness of birth time. Finding out these correct slots could be

taken as an exercise by somebody in the list.

 

Regards,

Nitish

sohamsa , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

<kmurthys58 wrote:

>

> Dear Jay,

>

> According to one of the reports on the net, following were the

recorded

> times:

>

> A - 10:43

> B - 10:44

> C - 10:45

> D - 10:45

> E - 10:46

> F - 10:47

> G - 10:48

>

> But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss <weissjay wrote:

>

> > Dear Nitish,

> > Very well said, no argument about the times that you mention.

> > However, the main issue here remains unknown (so far), which is

" Who was

> > delivered when " .

> > 8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds between each

of

> > them...

> > .... and here is where I place my question mark.

> > I will try to get the exact details if possible AND if they were

recorded

> > (I guess they were so busy in the delivery room ...).

> >

> > Regards

> > /Jay Weiss

> >

> >

> > 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

> >

> > || OM TAT SAT ||

> >> Dear Jay,

> >> What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as there is a reason

to

> >> differentiate?

> >> In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to 22deg Pi (i.e. 50

> >> shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't it like

hearing a

> >> music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event emphasizes the

> >> importance of prana-pada.

> >> Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada, there is a

reason

> >> to differentiate just by combining the three important

divisionals

> >> representative of karmic pattern being derived from matrilineal,

> >> patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40, D-45 and D-60

> >> resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

> >> D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

> >> D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

> >> D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

> >> -----------------------------

> >> Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 = 10. However,

some

> >> of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

> >>

> >> E.g. Look at some of these changes

> >> 10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

> >> 10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

> >> -------------------------

> >> 10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and D-40 ---> Vi

> >> 10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

> >> 10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

> >> 10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

> >> 10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

> >> 10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

> >> 10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

> >> -------------------------

> >> Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5 minutes, and

therefore

> >> only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising in these three

> >> charts taken together. This implies that differentiation needs

to be

> >> made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-45+D-40 in the

same

> >> way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct changes. This

> >> number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct individuals to

be

> >> born at the same place in a given interval. It will also prove

to be

> >> a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind of higher

> >> knowledge - just in the same way that all those things that

limit us

> >> do upon transgression.

> >>

> >> So, unless we are willing to accept that physical vehicle is all

> >> there is in the karmic unfoldment of an individual, we must be

open

> >> to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma vehicle behind it

as

> >> the driving force in determining ones' karmic destiny. In a way,

this

> >> proves the failure of purely physical karmic astrological basis,

> >> which is a good point to start enquiry into nature of Prana-pada.

> >>

> >> Any comments to explore this further are appreciated. If we have

a

> >> good discussion on this topic, i will put this up as a post on my

> >> blog.

> >>

> >> http://wisdomarchives.blogspot.com

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> Nitish

> >>

> >>

> >> sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, " J.

Weiss "

> >> <weissjay@> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Friends,

> >> >

> >> > According to the information that I could gather the data are

as

> >> followed:

> >> >

> >> > 26-January-2009

> >> > Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby out)

> >> > Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center

> >> > Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

> >> >

> >> > As to the divisional charts - see for yourself... (I guess 2-3

of

> >> them

> >> > will also have the same D60).

> >> >

> >> > Greetings

> >> > /Jay Weiss

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nitish,Your mail took me by surprised, honestly.Firstly your black & white view of Jyotish principles " ... are correct or not " . In such a case you can (in my opinion) scrap the entire Jyotish principles as we all know that SOME principles work for SOME, others don't BUT not all principles work for all.

The reason is very simple: UNKNOWN FACTORS! (as in all fields of science). We humans are NOT meant to know everything!Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool can bring forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't. There is no other way to make progress in any field of science.

As for the 'originator' of the Pranapada in D-9 I can only refer to a very old mail (on record) written by Sri Sanjay Rath (I think it was back in 2001 or 2002) with an explanation on it's calculation and usage. Where he got it from I am not sure but it has been used by many ever since.

What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-60 for Pranapada ?Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the beholder " i.e. PERCEPTION.

So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.What is 'true' for some is not for others. The word fact (something which can be proven) is probably more in place.... especially in astrology!

Best regards/Jay Weiss2009/1/29 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

 

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Jay, Sanjay,

Jyotish is a Vedic science, and it doesn't run on Statistics.

Either a Jyotish principle is correct or it is not. How can one be

born surely by statistically un-reliable principles? The PRANA-pada

rule for D-9 is grossly incorrect and a misconception of whoever

originated it - read on for the illustration.

 

One cannot understand the PRANA-pada in Jyotish, unless one knows

how PRANA functions in body.

 

PRANA in body is divided into 5 specialized forces operating in 5

chakras. Each of these chakras has a gross and a subtle PRANA

associated with it, thus making for 10 distinct bodily PRANA (dash

mahavidya). The respective gross/subtle pranas are: " Udana/

Devadatta " , " Prana/Naga " , " Samana/Krikal " , " Vyana/Dhananjaya " and

" Apana/Kurma " . Which planets rule which prana, anybody ?

 

These five principle and subtle PRANA together take care of all the

bodily functions, while the cosmic PRANA in the 6th/agya chakra takes

one to the realm of omnipresence and omniscience.

 

When a baby is born, he is not breathing because mothers' bodily

PRANA was taking care of all the necessary functions for the baby.

So, he has to start breathing, which means coupled inhalation and

exhalation that are driven by opposing forces of " Prana " and " Apana "

respectively.

 

Birth, marked by presence of breath, happens when the process of

breathing is initiated by the combined action of Prana in Agya (Ham)

and Vishuddhi (SaH) chakras. " Udana " being associated with Vishuddhi

chakra, breath, and with the ether elementary vibration, is therefore

the gross bodily prana for the plane of D-60. Now, Moon rules Udana

and Sun rules Devadatta. Thus,

 

[YOGAS' RULE FOR BIRTH]

For a baby to be born with Breath, the PRANA-pada lagna should be in

trines/7th to Moon/Sun in D-60.

 

For an ordinary person, at death, his astral body is taken to the

astral realms by the action of outgoing breath or " Apana " . Therefore,

only after one masters the breath by yogic practices (i.e. controls

prana in Agya and Vishuddhi chakras), can he leave his body at will,

and not be thrown out of it like a mortal.

 

The physical plane D-1 to D-12 is ruled by " Apana " . For a living

and breathing person, force of " Prana " is always stronger than the

force of " Apana " . Since a weaker force cannot drive a stronger

force, there is no way a baby could start breathing by the action of

" Apana " . " Apana " could be useful only for elimination of baby from

mothers' body, or it should be held responsible for balancing out the

equation with " Prana " to give sensory experiences.

 

This is the only correct version of the principle of birth in line

with the Yogic understanding of PRANA. I have illustrated the

required for the benefit of Jyotish community, and with a hope that

this will inspire them to make an effort to seek and realize the

truth as well as to question everything that is being presented as

truth.

 

Now, applying this principle, in the case of 8 babies, we should

look at the time given by the 28 (7+7+7+7) out of 50 shastyamsas for

the birth of the babies.

 

Regards,

Nitish

 

sohamsa , Jay Weiss <weissjay wrote:

>

> Dear Nitish,

> I am well aware of the Pranapada rule and use it daily as well.

> However, as I mentioned earlier the average of 5/8 (37 sec.) makes

it very

> interesting here 'IF' (1) two babies were born within this time

frame (2)

> some will have the Pranapada NOT in trines.

>

> Certainly an interesting issue/case for validation, something that

I always

> advocated under the cover name of 'Statistics'.

>

> Best regards

> /Jay Weiss

>

>

>

> 2009/1/28 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

>

> > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> >

> > Long time ago, I had read a rule by Pt. Sanjay Rath about using

> > pranapada lagna for birth time rectification. See link:

> > http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic astrology-jyotisha/

341103-

> > pranapada-rectification-srs-dialogues-zoran.html

> >

> > Here is the relevant text from the link:

> >

> > " ....Check# Not deviating from the point, see the navamsa

position of

> > the Pranapada and that of the Lagna or Moon. These must be in

trines/

> > seventh house. In the above example, the Pranapada is in Virgo

9Deg

> > 49 Min or Pisces navamsa and the Moon is also in Pisces navamsa as

> > he Lagna is in Scorpio Navamsa. Thus both lagna and Lunar checks

> > work. Some authors try to apply these checks in the Rasi chart and

> > often get very inaccurate results and have to shift the time by

many

> > hours to achieve the result!! Please keep this to yourself as it

will

> > be appearing in my next book onbirth time rectification.... "

> >

> > The Navamsa lagna (Ta) and Navamsa Moon (Ge) don't change sign

> > from 10:43 to 10:48.

> > Now, given that 8 babies were born in 5 minutes, and that

> > pranapada lagna moves a navamsa in every 40 seconds, In 5 minutes,

> > the pranapada lagna will move continuously from Ge to Cp navamsa,

> > with reference to static reference points of Navamsa Lagna and

Moon.

> > This rule implies that a baby will not be born for some 80 seconds

> > i.e. when PP goes to Cn and Le (from 10:43:31 - 10:44:51), none of

> > which are in trines/7th from lagna/Moon. Thus, we cannot have

Baby B

> > being really born. Also, this will imply a loss of 2 out of our 7

> > unique slots in the D60,D45,D40 idea leaving us with only 5

distinct

> > sets. Thus, implying that 7 babies have to be put closely

together in

> > 10:45 - 10:48 and with 4 unique slots.

> >

> > Clearly, this needs to be explored precisely with additional data

> > as it can tell us important information about the VALIDITY of this

> > birth-time rectification rule.

> >

> > I think this rule could only be validly applied in D-60 and not in

> > D-9, as we will get 27 (4+8+7+8) out of 50 shastyamsa in 5 minutes

> > that satisfy this condition. And these are ample to allow for 8

> > babies to be born. May be if we employ another conditional

constraint

> > on Pranapada in D-40 and D-45 (17-19 slots each), and find the

> > overlaps with D-60 (27 slots), we could get even better with the

> > correctness of birth time. Finding out these correct slots could

be

> > taken as an exercise by somebody in the list.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Nitish

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>,

Krishnamurthy

> > Seetharama

> > <kmurthys58@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Jay,

> > >

> > > According to one of the reports on the net, following were the

> > recorded

> > > times:

> > >

> > > A - 10:43

> > > B - 10:44

> > > C - 10:45

> > > D - 10:45

> > > E - 10:46

> > > F - 10:47

> > > G - 10:48

> > >

> > > But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss <weissjay@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > Very well said, no argument about the times that you mention.

> > > > However, the main issue here remains unknown (so far), which

is

> > " Who was

> > > > delivered when " .

> > > > 8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds between

each

> > of

> > > > them...

> > > > .... and here is where I place my question mark.

> > > > I will try to get the exact details if possible AND if they

were

> > recorded

> > > > (I guess they were so busy in the delivery room ...).

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@>

> >

> > > >

> > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > >> Dear Jay,

> > > >> What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as there is a

reason

> > to

> > > >> differentiate?

> > > >> In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to 22deg Pi

(i.e. 50

> > > >> shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't it like

> > hearing a

> > > >> music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event

emphasizes the

> > > >> importance of prana-pada.

> > > >> Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada, there is a

> > reason

> > > >> to differentiate just by combining the three important

> > divisionals

> > > >> representative of karmic pattern being derived from

matrilineal,

> > > >> patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40, D-45 and

D-60

> > > >> resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

> > > >> D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

> > > >> D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

> > > >> D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

> > > >> -----------------------------

> > > >> Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 = 10.

However,

> > some

> > > >> of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

> > > >>

> > > >> E.g. Look at some of these changes

> > > >> 10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

> > > >> 10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

> > > >> -------------------------

> > > >> 10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and D-40 ---> Vi

> > > >> 10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

> > > >> 10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

> > > >> 10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

> > > >> 10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

> > > >> 10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

> > > >> 10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

> > > >> -------------------------

> > > >> Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5 minutes, and

> > therefore

> > > >> only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising in these

three

> > > >> charts taken together. This implies that differentiation

needs

> > to be

> > > >> made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-45+D-40 in

the

> > same

> > > >> way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct changes.

This

> > > >> number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct

individuals to

> > be

> > > >> born at the same place in a given interval. It will also

prove

> > to be

> > > >> a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind of higher

> > > >> knowledge - just in the same way that all those things that

> > limit us

> > > >> do upon transgression.

> > > >>

> > > >> So, unless we are willing to accept that physical vehicle is

all

> > > >> there is in the karmic unfoldment of an individual, we must

be

> > open

> > > >> to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma vehicle behind

it

> > as

> > > >> the driving force in determining ones' karmic destiny. In a

way,

> > this

> > > >> proves the failure of purely physical karmic astrological

basis,

> > > >> which is a good point to start enquiry into nature of Prana-

pada.

> > > >>

> > > >> Any comments to explore this further are appreciated. If we

have

> > a

> > > >> good discussion on this topic, i will put this up as a post

on my

> > > >> blog.

> > > >>

> > > >> http://wisdomarchives.blogspot.com

> > > >>

> > > >> Regards,

> > > >> Nitish

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

<sohamsa%

> > 40>, " J.

> > Weiss "

> > > >> <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Friends,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > According to the information that I could gather the data

are

> > as

> > > >> followed:

> > > >> >

> > > >> > 26-January-2009

> > > >> > Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby out)

> > > >> > Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center

> > > >> > Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > As to the divisional charts - see for yourself... (I guess

2-3

> > of

> > > >> them

> > > >> > will also have the same D60).

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Greetings

> > > >> > /Jay Weiss

> > > >> >

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Nitish,Firstly, what you wrote about Pranapada was very interesting.This forum is useful for sharing information and knowledge. It is for everyone's benefit that sources are clearly sighted especially if requested. Page numbers are useful too, if the source is a book or scripture. If it is upadesa from a Jyotish Guru, or your own research or 'realisation' then just say so.If the principle you cited did come from personal 'revelation' then please post your birth details as the SOURCE so we can make an informed assessment. We're all doing Jyotish here so no need to be so mysterious.Best wishes,Michalyeeahoo_99 <nitish.aryasohamsa Sent: Friday, 30 January, 2009 6:46:47 AM Re: Birth data of the 8 babies born in L.A.

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Jay,

 

My view of Jyotish is that its purpose is to lead one to discover

ones' true self by search of deeper truths because Vedas are eternal,

rather than sink in an ocean of chaos by adherence to wrong

principles. Also, eternal knowledge cannot be scraped by any amount

of transitory effort.

 

> Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool can

> bring forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't.

> There is no other way to make progress in any field of science.

 

An engineer like me would know what statistics and probability

models are used for. What makes you say that this is the only way to

make progress in any field of science? How do you think BPHS or nadi

shastras were written ?

You should look at the difference between the methods of Vedic-

Mathematics and the prevalent modern methods to realize that the

methodology of knowledge acquisition couldn't have been same to

arrive at different methods to do a task as simple as Multiplication.

According to YOGA Sutras, one pointed concentration on any object

is the only instrument to get all knowledge related to it. Quality of

concentration being the only determinant, no UNKNOWN FACTORS here!

 

> We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

 

Have you made that kind of effort to be Omniscient ? There are

various grades of sciences and shastras and an infinity of them, but

that doesn't sound as good a reason to attempt to know everything and

feel helpless at not knowing enough. So, wise attempt to know the

self and realize the omniscience of mind in that effort.

 

> Last but not least: "The truth is only in the eyes of the beholder"

> i.e. PERCEPTION.

> So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

 

While everything of Maya is only relatively true, there is always

a greater truth behind the truths we perceive till we reach the

absolute truth beyond Maya. However, "relative truth" cannot be

discarded or replaced by something absurd, whether or not we have

surpassed the need to depend on those truths. Laws and principles of

Maya form a formidable and complex structure, difficult to be

penetrated, without any except the deepest inquiries.

 

That part only Sanjay can answer as to the origin of his Pranapada

in D-9 principle, because many things he propounds can be traced back

to parampara such that it becomes a self-proving axiom.

 

> What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-60 for

> Pranapada ?

 

Does anybody on this list have an issue with the illustration in

my last mail ?

What you refer as SOURCE, is perhaps not what you are asking for.

You seek a book or something that "reveals" it and was written by

some ancient Jyotish authority.

 

However, I have given the illustration precisely for the same

reason that anybody with any questions about its "relative validity"

can ask those questions and they will get answers according to my

knowledge of YOGA and Jyotish. Further, I will put it up on my blog,

that will become the publishing SOURCE.

 

Regards,

Nitish

 

sohamsa@ .com, Jay Weiss <weissjay@.. .> wrote:

>

> Dear Nitish,

> Your mail took me by surprised, honestly.

>

> Firstly your black & white view of Jyotish principles "... are

correct or

> not". In such a case you can (in my opinion) scrap the entire

Jyotish

> principles as we all know that SOME principles work for SOME,

others don't

> BUT not all principles work for all.

> The reason is very simple: UNKNOWN FACTORS! (as in all fields of

science).

> We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

>

> Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool can

bring

> forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't. There is

no other

> way to make progress in any field of science.

>

> As for the 'originator' of the Pranapada in D-9 I can only refer to

a very

> old mail (on record) written by Sri Sanjay Rath (I think it was

back in 2001

> or 2002) with an explanation on it's calculation and usage. Where

he got it

> from I am not sure but it has been used by many ever since.

>

> What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-60 for

> Pranapada ?

>

> Last but not least: "The truth is only in the eyes of the beholder"

i.e.

> PERCEPTION.

> So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

> What is 'true' for some is not for others. The word fact (something

which

> can be proven) is probably more in place.

> ... especially in astrology!

>

> Best regards

> /Jay Weiss

>

>

>

> 2009/1/29 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...>

>

> > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > Jyotish is a Vedic science, and it doesn't run on Statistics.

> > Either a Jyotish principle is correct or it is not. How can one be

> > born surely by statistically un-reliable principles? The PRANA-

pada

> > rule for D-9 is grossly incorrect and a misconception of whoever

> > originated it - read on for the illustration.

> >

> > One cannot understand the PRANA-pada in Jyotish, unless one knows

> > how PRANA functions in body.

> >

> > PRANA in body is divided into 5 specialized forces operating in 5

> > chakras. Each of these chakras has a gross and a subtle PRANA

> > associated with it, thus making for 10 distinct bodily PRANA (dash

> > mahavidya). The respective gross/subtle pranas are: "Udana/

> > Devadatta", "Prana/Naga" , "Samana/Krikal" , "Vyana/Dhananjaya" and

> > "Apana/Kurma" . Which planets rule which prana, anybody ?

> >

> > These five principle and subtle PRANA together take care of all

the

> > bodily functions, while the cosmic PRANA in the 6th/agya chakra

takes

> > one to the realm of omnipresence and omniscience.

> >

> > When a baby is born, he is not breathing because mothers' bodily

> > PRANA was taking care of all the necessary functions for the baby.

> > So, he has to start breathing, which means coupled inhalation and

> > exhalation that are driven by opposing forces of "Prana" and

"Apana"

> > respectively.

> >

> > Birth, marked by presence of breath, happens when the process of

> > breathing is initiated by the combined action of Prana in Agya

(Ham)

> > and Vishuddhi (SaH) chakras. "Udana" being associated with

Vishuddhi

> > chakra, breath, and with the ether elementary vibration, is

therefore

> > the gross bodily prana for the plane of D-60. Now, Moon rules

Udana

> > and Sun rules Devadatta. Thus,

> >

> > [YOGAS' RULE FOR BIRTH]

> > For a baby to be born with Breath, the PRANA-pada lagna should be

in

> > trines/7th to Moon/Sun in D-60.

> >

> > For an ordinary person, at death, his astral body is taken to the

> > astral realms by the action of outgoing breath or "Apana".

Therefore,

> > only after one masters the breath by yogic practices (i.e.

controls

> > prana in Agya and Vishuddhi chakras), can he leave his body at

will,

> > and not be thrown out of it like a mortal.

> >

> > The physical plane D-1 to D-12 is ruled by "Apana". For a living

> > and breathing person, force of "Prana" is always stronger than the

> > force of "Apana". Since a weaker force cannot drive a stronger

> > force, there is no way a baby could start breathing by the action

of

> > "Apana". "Apana" could be useful only for elimination of baby from

> > mothers' body, or it should be held responsible for balancing out

the

> > equation with "Prana" to give sensory experiences.

> >

> > This is the only correct version of the principle of birth in line

> > with the Yogic understanding of PRANA. I have illustrated the

> > required for the benefit of Jyotish community, and with a hope

that

> > this will inspire them to make an effort to seek and realize the

> > truth as well as to question everything that is being presented as

> > truth.

> >

> > Now, applying this principle, in the case of 8 babies, we should

> > look at the time given by the 28 (7+7+7+7) out of 50 shastyamsas

for

> > the birth of the babies.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Nitish

> >

> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40gro ups.com>, Jay

Weiss

> > <weissjay@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Nitish,

> > > I am well aware of the Pranapada rule and use it daily as well.

> > > However, as I mentioned earlier the average of 5/8 (37 sec.)

makes

> > it very

> > > interesting here 'IF' (1) two babies were born within this time

> > frame (2)

> > > some will have the Pranapada NOT in trines.

> > >

> > > Certainly an interesting issue/case for validation, something

that

> > I always

> > > advocated under the cover name of 'Statistics' .

> > >

> > > Best regards

> > > /Jay Weiss

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 2009/1/28 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ >

> >

> > >

> > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > > >

> > > > Long time ago, I had read a rule by Pt. Sanjay Rath about

using

> > > > pranapada lagna for birth time rectification. See link:

> > > > http://www.indiadiv ine.org/audarya/ vedic astrology- jyotisha/

> > 341103-

> > > > pranapada-rectifica tion-srs- dialogues- zoran.html

> > > >

> > > > Here is the relevant text from the link:

> > > >

> > > > "....Check# Not deviating from the point, see the navamsa

> > position of

> > > > the Pranapada and that of the Lagna or Moon. These must be in

> > trines/

> > > > seventh house. In the above example, the Pranapada is in Virgo

> > 9Deg

> > > > 49 Min or Pisces navamsa and the Moon is also in Pisces

navamsa as

> > > > he Lagna is in Scorpio Navamsa. Thus both lagna and Lunar

checks

> > > > work. Some authors try to apply these checks in the Rasi

chart and

> > > > often get very inaccurate results and have to shift the time

by

> > many

> > > > hours to achieve the result!! Please keep this to yourself as

it

> > will

> > > > be appearing in my next book onbirth time rectification. ..."

> > > >

> > > > The Navamsa lagna (Ta) and Navamsa Moon (Ge) don't change sign

> > > > from 10:43 to 10:48.

> > > > Now, given that 8 babies were born in 5 minutes, and that

> > > > pranapada lagna moves a navamsa in every 40 seconds, In 5

minutes,

> > > > the pranapada lagna will move continuously from Ge to Cp

navamsa,

> > > > with reference to static reference points of Navamsa Lagna and

> > Moon.

> > > > This rule implies that a baby will not be born for some 80

seconds

> > > > i.e. when PP goes to Cn and Le (from 10:43:31 - 10:44:51),

none of

> > > > which are in trines/7th from lagna/Moon. Thus, we cannot have

> > Baby B

> > > > being really born. Also, this will imply a loss of 2 out of

our 7

> > > > unique slots in the D60,D45,D40 idea leaving us with only 5

> > distinct

> > > > sets. Thus, implying that 7 babies have to be put closely

> > together in

> > > > 10:45 - 10:48 and with 4 unique slots.

> > > >

> > > > Clearly, this needs to be explored precisely with additional

data

> > > > as it can tell us important information about the VALIDITY of

this

> > > > birth-time rectification rule.

> > > >

> > > > I think this rule could only be validly applied in D-60 and

not in

> > > > D-9, as we will get 27 (4+8+7+8) out of 50 shastyamsa in 5

minutes

> > > > that satisfy this condition. And these are ample to allow for

8

> > > > babies to be born. May be if we employ another conditional

> > constraint

> > > > on Pranapada in D-40 and D-45 (17-19 slots each), and find the

> > > > overlaps with D-60 (27 slots), we could get even better with

the

> > > > correctness of birth time. Finding out these correct slots

could

> > be

> > > > taken as an exercise by somebody in the list.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Nitish

> > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40gro ups.com>

<sohamsa%

> > 40. com>,

> > Krishnamurthy

> > > > Seetharama

> > > > <kmurthys58@ > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Jay,

> > > > >

> > > > > According to one of the reports on the net, following were

the

> > > > recorded

> > > > > times:

> > > > >

> > > > > A - 10:43

> > > > > B - 10:44

> > > > > C - 10:45

> > > > > D - 10:45

> > > > > E - 10:46

> > > > > F - 10:47

> > > > > G - 10:48

> > > > >

> > > > > But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Krishna

> > > > >

> > > > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss <weissjay@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > Very well said, no argument about the times that you

mention.

> > > > > > However, the main issue here remains unknown (so far),

which

> > is

> > > > "Who was

> > > > > > delivered when".

> > > > > > 8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds

between

> > each

> > > > of

> > > > > > them...

> > > > > > .... and here is where I place my question mark.

> > > > > > I will try to get the exact details if possible AND if

they

> > were

> > > > recorded

> > > > > > (I guess they were so busy in the delivery room ...).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ >

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > >> Dear Jay,

> > > > > >> What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as there is a

> > reason

> > > > to

> > > > > >> differentiate?

> > > > > >> In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to 22deg Pi

> > (i.e. 50

> > > > > >> shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't it

like

> > > > hearing a

> > > > > >> music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event

> > emphasizes the

> > > > > >> importance of prana-pada.

> > > > > >> Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada, there

is a

> > > > reason

> > > > > >> to differentiate just by combining the three important

> > > > divisionals

> > > > > >> representative of karmic pattern being derived from

> > matrilineal,

> > > > > >> patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40, D-45

and

> > D-60

> > > > > >> resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

> > > > > >> D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

> > > > > >> D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

> > > > > >> D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

> > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------

> > > > > >> Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 = 10.

> > However,

> > > > some

> > > > > >> of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> E.g. Look at some of these changes

> > > > > >> 10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

> > > > > >> 10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

> > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

-

> > > > > >> 10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and D-40 --->

Vi

> > > > > >> 10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

> > > > > >> 10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

> > > > > >> 10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

> > > > > >> 10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

> > > > > >> 10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

> > > > > >> 10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

> > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

-

> > > > > >> Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5 minutes, and

> > > > therefore

> > > > > >> only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising in

these

> > three

> > > > > >> charts taken together. This implies that differentiation

> > needs

> > > > to be

> > > > > >> made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-45+D- 40

in

> > the

> > > > same

> > > > > >> way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct

changes.

> > This

> > > > > >> number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct

> > individuals to

> > > > be

> > > > > >> born at the same place in a given interval. It will also

> > prove

> > > > to be

> > > > > >> a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind of

higher

> > > > > >> knowledge - just in the same way that all those things

that

> > > > limit us

> > > > > >> do upon transgression.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> So, unless we are willing to accept that physical

vehicle is

> > all

> > > > > >> there is in the karmic unfoldment of an individual, we

must

> > be

> > > > open

> > > > > >> to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma vehicle

behind

> > it

> > > > as

> > > > > >> the driving force in determining ones' karmic destiny.

In a

> > way,

> > > > this

> > > > > >> proves the failure of purely physical karmic astrological

> > basis,

> > > > > >> which is a good point to start enquiry into nature of

Prana-

> > pada.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Any comments to explore this further are appreciated. If

we

> > have

> > > > a

> > > > > >> good discussion on this topic, i will put this up as a

post

> > on my

> > > > > >> blog.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> http://wisdomarchiv es.blogspot. com

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Regards,

> > > > > >> Nitish

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> sohamsa@ .com

<sohamsa%40gro ups.com>< sohamsa%

> > 40. com>

> > <sohamsa%

> > > > 40. com>, "J.

> > > > Weiss"

> > > > > >> <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Friends,

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > According to the information that I could gather the

data

> > are

> > > > as

> > > > > >> followed:

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > 26-January-2009

> > > > > >> > Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby out)

> > > > > >> > Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center

> > > > > >> > Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > As to the divisional charts - see for yourself... (I

guess

> > 2-3

> > > > of

> > > > > >> them

> > > > > >> > will also have the same D60).

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Greetings

> > > > > >> > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

Food for the party season - Easy recipes for Christmas entertaining on Xtra Lifestyle

[Guest guest]

Dear Nitish,I did consider hundreds of charts to verify the position of PP in D9. I have reached a conclusion that there is more to it than just checking PP's position with respect to Moon in D9. Obviously, we see to miss something here and need to investigate further to find the missing piece.

Just as an exercise, I tried to rectify your birth time with my own method and I get 10:13:10 as the rectified time. I guess what you have given is already rectified by you. I am not trying to say my method is superior to yours. I would like to know how the time suggested by me fits the known checks you may have used to rectify. If you find time do please give me a feedback. That helps me to fine tune my methodology.

Regards,KrishnaOn Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:55 AM, yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya wrote:

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Michal,

The source of yoga knowledge, chakras etc is from the yoga texts

that I read including the biography of Yogiraj Sri Shyamacharan

Lahiri, autobiography and Gita commentary by Yogananda and

Vivekanadas' commentary on Patanjali Yoga sutras.

There is no mystery here, just an inspiration. The

realization or derivation has already been posted verbose as it first

occurred to me during the discussion. You may have my chart details:

12-12-1979, 10:14:10, New Delhi, India

Do inform me about your findings .

Regards,

Nitish

 

sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal

wrote:

>

> Hare Rama Krsna ||

>

> Dear Nitish,

>

> Firstly, what you wrote about Pranapada was very interesting.

>

> This forum is useful for sharing information and knowledge. It is

for everyone's benefit that sources are clearly sighted especially if

requested. Page numbers are useful too, if the source is a book or

scripture. If it is upadesa from a Jyotish Guru, or your own

research or 'realisation' then just say so.

>

> If the principle you cited did come from personal 'revelation' then

please post your birth details as the SOURCE so we can make an

informed assessment.

>

> We're all doing Jyotish here so no need to be so mysterious.

>

> Best wishes,

> Michal

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

> sohamsa

> Friday, 30 January, 2009 6:46:47 AM

> Re: Birth data of the 8 babies born in L.A.

>

>

> || OM TAT SAT ||

> Dear Jay,

>

> My view of Jyotish is that its purpose is to lead one to discover

> ones' true self by search of deeper truths because Vedas are

eternal,

> rather than sink in an ocean of chaos by adherence to wrong

> principles. Also, eternal knowledge cannot be scraped by any amount

> of transitory effort.

>

> > Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool can

> > bring forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't.

> > There is no other way to make progress in any field of science.

>

> An engineer like me would know what statistics and probability

> models are used for. What makes you say that this is the only way

to

> make progress in any field of science? How do you think BPHS or

nadi

> shastras were written ?

> You should look at the difference between the methods of Vedic-

> Mathematics and the prevalent modern methods to realize that the

> methodology of knowledge acquisition couldn't have been same to

> arrive at different methods to do a task as simple as

Multiplication.

> According to YOGA Sutras, one pointed concentration on any object

> is the only instrument to get all knowledge related to it. Quality

of

> concentration being the only determinant, no UNKNOWN FACTORS here!

>

> > We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

>

> Have you made that kind of effort to be Omniscient ? There are

> various grades of sciences and shastras and an infinity of them,

but

> that doesn't sound as good a reason to attempt to know everything

and

> feel helpless at not knowing enough. So, wise attempt to know the

> self and realize the omniscience of mind in that effort.

>

> > Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the

beholder "

> > i.e. PERCEPTION.

> > So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

>

> While everything of Maya is only relatively true, there is always

> a greater truth behind the truths we perceive till we reach the

> absolute truth beyond Maya. However, " relative truth " cannot be

> discarded or replaced by something absurd, whether or not we have

> surpassed the need to depend on those truths. Laws and principles

of

> Maya form a formidable and complex structure, difficult to be

> penetrated, without any except the deepest inquiries.

>

> That part only Sanjay can answer as to the origin of his Pranapada

> in D-9 principle, because many things he propounds can be traced

back

> to parampara such that it becomes a self-proving axiom.

>

> > What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-60

for

> > Pranapada ?

>

> Does anybody on this list have an issue with the illustration in

> my last mail ?

> What you refer as SOURCE, is perhaps not what you are asking for.

> You seek a book or something that " reveals " it and was written by

> some ancient Jyotish authority.

>

> However, I have given the illustration precisely for the same

> reason that anybody with any questions about its " relative

validity "

> can ask those questions and they will get answers according to my

> knowledge of YOGA and Jyotish. Further, I will put it up on my

blog,

> that will become the publishing SOURCE.

>

> Regards,

> Nitish

>

> sohamsa@ .com, Jay Weiss <weissjay@ .> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Nitish,

> > Your mail took me by surprised, honestly.

> >

> > Firstly your black & white view of Jyotish principles " ... are

> correct or

> > not " . In such a case you can (in my opinion) scrap the entire

> Jyotish

> > principles as we all know that SOME principles work for SOME,

> others don't

> > BUT not all principles work for all.

> > The reason is very simple: UNKNOWN FACTORS! (as in all fields of

> science).

> > We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

> >

> > Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool can

> bring

> > forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't. There

is

> no other

> > way to make progress in any field of science.

> >

> > As for the 'originator' of the Pranapada in D-9 I can only refer

to

> a very

> > old mail (on record) written by Sri Sanjay Rath (I think it was

> back in 2001

> > or 2002) with an explanation on it's calculation and usage. Where

> he got it

> > from I am not sure but it has been used by many ever since.

> >

> > What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-60

for

> > Pranapada ?

> >

> > Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the

beholder "

> i.e.

> > PERCEPTION.

> > So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

> > What is 'true' for some is not for others. The word fact

(something

> which

> > can be proven) is probably more in place.

> > ... especially in astrology!

> >

> > Best regards

> > /Jay Weiss

> >

> >

> >

> > 2009/1/29 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...>

> >

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > > Jyotish is a Vedic science, and it doesn't run on Statistics.

> > > Either a Jyotish principle is correct or it is not. How can one

be

> > > born surely by statistically un-reliable principles? The PRANA-

> pada

> > > rule for D-9 is grossly incorrect and a misconception of whoever

> > > originated it - read on for the illustration.

> > >

> > > One cannot understand the PRANA-pada in Jyotish, unless one

knows

> > > how PRANA functions in body.

> > >

> > > PRANA in body is divided into 5 specialized forces operating in

5

> > > chakras. Each of these chakras has a gross and a subtle PRANA

> > > associated with it, thus making for 10 distinct bodily PRANA

(dash

> > > mahavidya). The respective gross/subtle pranas are: " Udana/

> > > Devadatta " , " Prana/Naga " , " Samana/Krikal " , " Vyana/Dhananjaya "

and

> > > " Apana/Kurma " . Which planets rule which prana, anybody ?

> > >

> > > These five principle and subtle PRANA together take care of all

> the

> > > bodily functions, while the cosmic PRANA in the 6th/agya chakra

> takes

> > > one to the realm of omnipresence and omniscience.

> > >

> > > When a baby is born, he is not breathing because mothers' bodily

> > > PRANA was taking care of all the necessary functions for the

baby.

> > > So, he has to start breathing, which means coupled inhalation

and

> > > exhalation that are driven by opposing forces of " Prana " and

> " Apana "

> > > respectively.

> > >

> > > Birth, marked by presence of breath, happens when the process of

> > > breathing is initiated by the combined action of Prana in Agya

> (Ham)

> > > and Vishuddhi (SaH) chakras. " Udana " being associated with

> Vishuddhi

> > > chakra, breath, and with the ether elementary vibration, is

> therefore

> > > the gross bodily prana for the plane of D-60. Now, Moon rules

> Udana

> > > and Sun rules Devadatta. Thus,

> > >

> > > [YOGAS' RULE FOR BIRTH]

> > > For a baby to be born with Breath, the PRANA-pada lagna should

be

> in

> > > trines/7th to Moon/Sun in D-60.

> > >

> > > For an ordinary person, at death, his astral body is taken to

the

> > > astral realms by the action of outgoing breath or " Apana " .

> Therefore,

> > > only after one masters the breath by yogic practices (i.e.

> controls

> > > prana in Agya and Vishuddhi chakras), can he leave his body at

> will,

> > > and not be thrown out of it like a mortal.

> > >

> > > The physical plane D-1 to D-12 is ruled by " Apana " . For a living

> > > and breathing person, force of " Prana " is always stronger than

the

> > > force of " Apana " . Since a weaker force cannot drive a stronger

> > > force, there is no way a baby could start breathing by the

action

> of

> > > " Apana " . " Apana " could be useful only for elimination of baby

from

> > > mothers' body, or it should be held responsible for balancing

out

> the

> > > equation with " Prana " to give sensory experiences.

> > >

> > > This is the only correct version of the principle of birth in

line

> > > with the Yogic understanding of PRANA. I have illustrated the

> > > required for the benefit of Jyotish community, and with a hope

> that

> > > this will inspire them to make an effort to seek and realize the

> > > truth as well as to question everything that is being presented

as

> > > truth.

> > >

> > > Now, applying this principle, in the case of 8 babies, we should

> > > look at the time given by the 28 (7+7+7+7) out of 50

shastyamsas

> for

> > > the birth of the babies.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Nitish

> > >

> > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40gro ups.com>,

Jay

> Weiss

> > > <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > I am well aware of the Pranapada rule and use it daily as

well.

> > > > However, as I mentioned earlier the average of 5/8 (37 sec.)

> makes

> > > it very

> > > > interesting here 'IF' (1) two babies were born within this

time

> > > frame (2)

> > > > some will have the Pranapada NOT in trines.

> > > >

> > > > Certainly an interesting issue/case for validation, something

> that

> > > I always

> > > > advocated under the cover name of 'Statistics' .

> > > >

> > > > Best regards

> > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2009/1/28 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > > > >

> > > > > Long time ago, I had read a rule by Pt. Sanjay Rath about

> using

> > > > > pranapada lagna for birth time rectification. See link:

> > > > > http://www.indiadiv ine.org/audarya/ vedic astrology-

jyotisha/

> > > 341103-

> > > > > pranapada-rectifica tion-srs- dialogues- zoran.html

> > > > >

> > > > > Here is the relevant text from the link:

> > > > >

> > > > > " ....Check# Not deviating from the point, see the navamsa

> > > position of

> > > > > the Pranapada and that of the Lagna or Moon. These must be

in

> > > trines/

> > > > > seventh house. In the above example, the Pranapada is in

Virgo

> > > 9Deg

> > > > > 49 Min or Pisces navamsa and the Moon is also in Pisces

> navamsa as

> > > > > he Lagna is in Scorpio Navamsa. Thus both lagna and Lunar

> checks

> > > > > work. Some authors try to apply these checks in the Rasi

> chart and

> > > > > often get very inaccurate results and have to shift the

time

> by

> > > many

> > > > > hours to achieve the result!! Please keep this to yourself

as

> it

> > > will

> > > > > be appearing in my next book onbirth time

rectification. ... "

> > > > >

> > > > > The Navamsa lagna (Ta) and Navamsa Moon (Ge) don't change

sign

> > > > > from 10:43 to 10:48.

> > > > > Now, given that 8 babies were born in 5 minutes, and that

> > > > > pranapada lagna moves a navamsa in every 40 seconds, In 5

> minutes,

> > > > > the pranapada lagna will move continuously from Ge to Cp

> navamsa,

> > > > > with reference to static reference points of Navamsa Lagna

and

> > > Moon.

> > > > > This rule implies that a baby will not be born for some 80

> seconds

> > > > > i.e. when PP goes to Cn and Le (from 10:43:31 - 10:44:51),

> none of

> > > > > which are in trines/7th from lagna/Moon. Thus, we cannot

have

> > > Baby B

> > > > > being really born. Also, this will imply a loss of 2 out of

> our 7

> > > > > unique slots in the D60,D45,D40 idea leaving us with only 5

> > > distinct

> > > > > sets. Thus, implying that 7 babies have to be put closely

> > > together in

> > > > > 10:45 - 10:48 and with 4 unique slots.

> > > > >

> > > > > Clearly, this needs to be explored precisely with

additional

> data

> > > > > as it can tell us important information about the VALIDITY

of

> this

> > > > > birth-time rectification rule.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think this rule could only be validly applied in D-60 and

> not in

> > > > > D-9, as we will get 27 (4+8+7+8) out of 50 shastyamsa in 5

> minutes

> > > > > that satisfy this condition. And these are ample to allow

for

> 8

> > > > > babies to be born. May be if we employ another conditional

> > > constraint

> > > > > on Pranapada in D-40 and D-45 (17-19 slots each), and find

the

> > > > > overlaps with D-60 (27 slots), we could get even better

with

> the

> > > > > correctness of birth time. Finding out these correct slots

> could

> > > be

> > > > > taken as an exercise by somebody in the list.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40gro

ups.com>

> <sohamsa%

> > > 40. com>,

> > > Krishnamurthy

> > > > > Seetharama

> > > > > <kmurthys58@ > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Jay,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > According to one of the reports on the net, following

were

> the

> > > > > recorded

> > > > > > times:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A - 10:43

> > > > > > B - 10:44

> > > > > > C - 10:45

> > > > > > D - 10:45

> > > > > > E - 10:46

> > > > > > F - 10:47

> > > > > > G - 10:48

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss <weissjay@>

> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > Very well said, no argument about the times that you

> mention.

> > > > > > > However, the main issue here remains unknown (so far),

> which

> > > is

> > > > > " Who was

> > > > > > > delivered when " .

> > > > > > > 8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds

> between

> > > each

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > them...

> > > > > > > .... and here is where I place my question mark.

> > > > > > > I will try to get the exact details if possible AND if

> they

> > > were

> > > > > recorded

> > > > > > > (I guess they were so busy in the delivery room ...).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > >> Dear Jay,

> > > > > > >> What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as there is

a

> > > reason

> > > > > to

> > > > > > >> differentiate?

> > > > > > >> In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to 22deg Pi

> > > (i.e. 50

> > > > > > >> shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't it

> like

> > > > > hearing a

> > > > > > >> music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event

> > > emphasizes the

> > > > > > >> importance of prana-pada.

> > > > > > >> Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada,

there

> is a

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > >> to differentiate just by combining the three important

> > > > > divisionals

> > > > > > >> representative of karmic pattern being derived from

> > > matrilineal,

> > > > > > >> patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40, D-

45

> and

> > > D-60

> > > > > > >> resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

> > > > > > >> D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

> > > > > > >> D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

> > > > > > >> D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

> > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------

> > > > > > >> Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 = 10.

> > > However,

> > > > > some

> > > > > > >> of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> E.g. Look at some of these changes

> > > > > > >> 10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

> > > > > > >> 10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

> > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --

-------

> -

> > > > > > >> 10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and D-40 ---

>

> Vi

> > > > > > >> 10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

> > > > > > >> 10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

> > > > > > >> 10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

> > > > > > >> 10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

> > > > > > >> 10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

> > > > > > >> 10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

> > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --

-------

> -

> > > > > > >> Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5 minutes,

and

> > > > > therefore

> > > > > > >> only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising in

> these

> > > three

> > > > > > >> charts taken together. This implies that

differentiation

> > > needs

> > > > > to be

> > > > > > >> made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-45+D-

40

> in

> > > the

> > > > > same

> > > > > > >> way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct

> changes.

> > > This

> > > > > > >> number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct

> > > individuals to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > >> born at the same place in a given interval. It will

also

> > > prove

> > > > > to be

> > > > > > >> a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind of

> higher

> > > > > > >> knowledge - just in the same way that all those things

> that

> > > > > limit us

> > > > > > >> do upon transgression.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> So, unless we are willing to accept that physical

> vehicle is

> > > all

> > > > > > >> there is in the karmic unfoldment of an individual, we

> must

> > > be

> > > > > open

> > > > > > >> to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma vehicle

> behind

> > > it

> > > > > as

> > > > > > >> the driving force in determining ones' karmic destiny.

> In a

> > > way,

> > > > > this

> > > > > > >> proves the failure of purely physical karmic

astrological

> > > basis,

> > > > > > >> which is a good point to start enquiry into nature of

> Prana-

> > > pada.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Any comments to explore this further are appreciated.

If

> we

> > > have

> > > > > a

> > > > > > >> good discussion on this topic, i will put this up as a

> post

> > > on my

> > > > > > >> blog.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> http://wisdomarchiv es.blogspot. com

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Regards,

> > > > > > >> Nitish

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> sohamsa@ .com

> <sohamsa%40gro ups.com>< sohamsa%

> > > 40. com>

> > > <sohamsa%

> > > > > 40. com>, " J.

> > > > > Weiss "

> > > > > > >> <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > >> > Friends,

> > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > >> > According to the information that I could gather the

> data

> > > are

> > > > > as

> > > > > > >> followed:

> > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > >> > 26-January-2009

> > > > > > >> > Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby out)

> > > > > > >> > Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center

> > > > > > >> > Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

> > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > >> > As to the divisional charts - see for yourself... (I

> guess

> > > 2-3

> > > > > of

> > > > > > >> them

> > > > > > >> > will also have the same D60).

> > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > >> > Greetings

> > > > > > >> > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> Get the world & #39;s best email - http://nz.mail./

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Krishna and Nitish,

 

am no expert, just curious - the kunda (Leo) is not in trines/7th to

lagna (Cap) with either of the timings...?

 

Best Regards,

SS

 

 

sohamsa , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

<kmurthys58 wrote:

>

> Dear Nitish,

>

> I did consider hundreds of charts to verify the position of PP in

D9. I have

> reached a conclusion that there is more to it than just checking

PP's

> position with respect to Moon in D9. Obviously, we see to miss

something

> here and need to investigate further to find the missing piece.

>

> Just as an exercise, I tried to rectify your birth time with my own

method

> and I get 10:13:10 as the rectified time. I guess what you have

given is

> already rectified by you. I am not trying to say my method is

superior to

> yours. I would like to know how the time suggested by me fits the

known

> checks you may have used to rectify. If you find time do please

give me a

> feedback. That helps me to fine tune my methodology.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:55 AM, yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

wrote:

>

> > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > Dear Michal,

> > The source of yoga knowledge, chakras etc is from the yoga texts

> > that I read including the biography of Yogiraj Sri Shyamacharan

> > Lahiri, autobiography and Gita commentary by Yogananda and

> > Vivekanadas' commentary on Patanjali Yoga sutras.

> > There is no mystery here, just an inspiration. The

> > realization or derivation has already been posted verbose as it

first

> > occurred to me during the discussion. You may have my chart

details:

> > 12-12-1979, 10:14:10, New Delhi, India

> > Do inform me about your findings .

> > Regards,

> > Nitish

> >

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, Michal

> > Dziwulski <nearmichal@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||

> > >

> > > Dear Nitish,

> > >

> > > Firstly, what you wrote about Pranapada was very interesting.

> > >

> > > This forum is useful for sharing information and knowledge. It

is

> > for everyone's benefit that sources are clearly sighted

especially if

> > requested. Page numbers are useful too, if the source is a book or

> > scripture. If it is upadesa from a Jyotish Guru, or your own

> > research or 'realisation' then just say so.

> > >

> > > If the principle you cited did come from personal 'revelation'

then

> > please post your birth details as the SOURCE so we can make an

> > informed assessment.

> > >

> > > We're all doing Jyotish here so no need to be so mysterious.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Michal

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@>

> > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > > Friday, 30 January, 2009 6:46:47 AM

> > > Re: Birth data of the 8 babies born in L.A.

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > Dear Jay,

> > >

> > > My view of Jyotish is that its purpose is to lead one to

discover

> > > ones' true self by search of deeper truths because Vedas are

> > eternal,

> > > rather than sink in an ocean of chaos by adherence to wrong

> > > principles. Also, eternal knowledge cannot be scraped by any

amount

> > > of transitory effort.

> > >

> > > > Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool

can

> > > > bring forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which

don't.

> > > > There is no other way to make progress in any field of

science.

> > >

> > > An engineer like me would know what statistics and probability

> > > models are used for. What makes you say that this is the only

way

> > to

> > > make progress in any field of science? How do you think BPHS or

> > nadi

> > > shastras were written ?

> > > You should look at the difference between the methods of Vedic-

> > > Mathematics and the prevalent modern methods to realize that the

> > > methodology of knowledge acquisition couldn't have been same to

> > > arrive at different methods to do a task as simple as

> > Multiplication.

> > > According to YOGA Sutras, one pointed concentration on any

object

> > > is the only instrument to get all knowledge related to it.

Quality

> > of

> > > concentration being the only determinant, no UNKNOWN FACTORS

here!

> > >

> > > > We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

> > >

> > > Have you made that kind of effort to be Omniscient ? There are

> > > various grades of sciences and shastras and an infinity of them,

> > but

> > > that doesn't sound as good a reason to attempt to know

everything

> > and

> > > feel helpless at not knowing enough. So, wise attempt to know

the

> > > self and realize the omniscience of mind in that effort.

> > >

> > > > Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the

> > beholder "

> > > > i.e. PERCEPTION.

> > > > So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

> > >

> > > While everything of Maya is only relatively true, there is

always

> > > a greater truth behind the truths we perceive till we reach the

> > > absolute truth beyond Maya. However, " relative truth " cannot be

> > > discarded or replaced by something absurd, whether or not we

have

> > > surpassed the need to depend on those truths. Laws and

principles

> > of

> > > Maya form a formidable and complex structure, difficult to be

> > > penetrated, without any except the deepest inquiries.

> > >

> > > That part only Sanjay can answer as to the origin of his

Pranapada

> > > in D-9 principle, because many things he propounds can be traced

> > back

> > > to parampara such that it becomes a self-proving axiom.

> > >

> > > > What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-

60

> > for

> > > > Pranapada ?

> > >

> > > Does anybody on this list have an issue with the illustration in

> > > my last mail ?

> > > What you refer as SOURCE, is perhaps not what you are asking

for.

> > > You seek a book or something that " reveals " it and was written

by

> > > some ancient Jyotish authority.

> > >

> > > However, I have given the illustration precisely for the same

> > > reason that anybody with any questions about its " relative

> > validity "

> > > can ask those questions and they will get answers according to

my

> > > knowledge of YOGA and Jyotish. Further, I will put it up on my

> > blog,

> > > that will become the publishing SOURCE.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Nitish

> > >

> > > sohamsa@ .com, Jay Weiss <weissjay@ .> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > Your mail took me by surprised, honestly.

> > > >

> > > > Firstly your black & white view of Jyotish principles " ... are

> > > correct or

> > > > not " . In such a case you can (in my opinion) scrap the entire

> > > Jyotish

> > > > principles as we all know that SOME principles work for SOME,

> > > others don't

> > > > BUT not all principles work for all.

> > > > The reason is very simple: UNKNOWN FACTORS! (as in all fields

of

> > > science).

> > > > We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

> > > >

> > > > Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool

can

> > > bring

> > > > forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't.

There

> > is

> > > no other

> > > > way to make progress in any field of science.

> > > >

> > > > As for the 'originator' of the Pranapada in D-9 I can only

refer

> > to

> > > a very

> > > > old mail (on record) written by Sri Sanjay Rath (I think it

was

> > > back in 2001

> > > > or 2002) with an explanation on it's calculation and usage.

Where

> > > he got it

> > > > from I am not sure but it has been used by many ever since.

> > > >

> > > > What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-

60

> > for

> > > > Pranapada ?

> > > >

> > > > Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the

> > beholder "

> > > i.e.

> > > > PERCEPTION.

> > > > So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

> > > > What is 'true' for some is not for others. The word fact

> > (something

> > > which

> > > > can be proven) is probably more in place.

> > > > ... especially in astrology!

> > > >

> > > > Best regards

> > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2009/1/29 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...>

> > > >

> > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > > > > Jyotish is a Vedic science, and it doesn't run on

Statistics.

> > > > > Either a Jyotish principle is correct or it is not. How can

one

> > be

> > > > > born surely by statistically un-reliable principles? The

PRANA-

> > > pada

> > > > > rule for D-9 is grossly incorrect and a misconception of

whoever

> > > > > originated it - read on for the illustration.

> > > > >

> > > > > One cannot understand the PRANA-pada in Jyotish, unless one

> > knows

> > > > > how PRANA functions in body.

> > > > >

> > > > > PRANA in body is divided into 5 specialized forces

operating in

> > 5

> > > > > chakras. Each of these chakras has a gross and a subtle

PRANA

> > > > > associated with it, thus making for 10 distinct bodily PRANA

> > (dash

> > > > > mahavidya). The respective gross/subtle pranas are: " Udana/

> > > > >

Devadatta " , " Prana/Naga " , " Samana/Krikal " , " Vyana/Dhananjaya "

> > and

> > > > > " Apana/Kurma " . Which planets rule which prana, anybody ?

> > > > >

> > > > > These five principle and subtle PRANA together take care of

all

> > > the

> > > > > bodily functions, while the cosmic PRANA in the 6th/agya

chakra

> > > takes

> > > > > one to the realm of omnipresence and omniscience.

> > > > >

> > > > > When a baby is born, he is not breathing because mothers'

bodily

> > > > > PRANA was taking care of all the necessary functions for the

> > baby.

> > > > > So, he has to start breathing, which means coupled

inhalation

> > and

> > > > > exhalation that are driven by opposing forces of " Prana " and

> > > " Apana "

> > > > > respectively.

> > > > >

> > > > > Birth, marked by presence of breath, happens when the

process of

> > > > > breathing is initiated by the combined action of Prana in

Agya

> > > (Ham)

> > > > > and Vishuddhi (SaH) chakras. " Udana " being associated with

> > > Vishuddhi

> > > > > chakra, breath, and with the ether elementary vibration, is

> > > therefore

> > > > > the gross bodily prana for the plane of D-60. Now, Moon

rules

> > > Udana

> > > > > and Sun rules Devadatta. Thus,

> > > > >

> > > > > [YOGAS' RULE FOR BIRTH]

> > > > > For a baby to be born with Breath, the PRANA-pada lagna

should

> > be

> > > in

> > > > > trines/7th to Moon/Sun in D-60.

> > > > >

> > > > > For an ordinary person, at death, his astral body is taken

to

> > the

> > > > > astral realms by the action of outgoing breath or " Apana " .

> > > Therefore,

> > > > > only after one masters the breath by yogic practices (i.e.

> > > controls

> > > > > prana in Agya and Vishuddhi chakras), can he leave his body

at

> > > will,

> > > > > and not be thrown out of it like a mortal.

> > > > >

> > > > > The physical plane D-1 to D-12 is ruled by " Apana " . For a

living

> > > > > and breathing person, force of " Prana " is always stronger

than

> > the

> > > > > force of " Apana " . Since a weaker force cannot drive a

stronger

> > > > > force, there is no way a baby could start breathing by the

> > action

> > > of

> > > > > " Apana " . " Apana " could be useful only for elimination of

baby

> > from

> > > > > mothers' body, or it should be held responsible for

balancing

> > out

> > > the

> > > > > equation with " Prana " to give sensory experiences.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is the only correct version of the principle of birth

in

> > line

> > > > > with the Yogic understanding of PRANA. I have illustrated

the

> > > > > required for the benefit of Jyotish community, and with a

hope

> > > that

> > > > > this will inspire them to make an effort to seek and

realize the

> > > > > truth as well as to question everything that is being

presented

> > as

> > > > > truth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, applying this principle, in the case of 8 babies, we

should

> > > > > look at the time given by the 28 (7+7+7+7) out of 50

> > shastyamsas

> > > for

> > > > > the birth of the babies.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40gro

ups.com>,

> > Jay

> > > Weiss

> > > > > <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > I am well aware of the Pranapada rule and use it daily as

> > well.

> > > > > > However, as I mentioned earlier the average of 5/8 (37

sec.)

> > > makes

> > > > > it very

> > > > > > interesting here 'IF' (1) two babies were born within this

> > time

> > > > > frame (2)

> > > > > > some will have the Pranapada NOT in trines.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Certainly an interesting issue/case for validation,

something

> > > that

> > > > > I always

> > > > > > advocated under the cover name of 'Statistics' .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards

> > > > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2009/1/28 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Long time ago, I had read a rule by Pt. Sanjay Rath

about

> > > using

> > > > > > > pranapada lagna for birth time rectification. See link:

> > > > > > > http://www.indiadiv ine.org/audarya/ vedic astrology-

> > jyotisha/

> > > > > 341103-

> > > > > > > pranapada-rectifica tion-srs- dialogues- zoran.html

> >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here is the relevant text from the link:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " ....Check# Not deviating from the point, see the

navamsa

> > > > > position of

> > > > > > > the Pranapada and that of the Lagna or Moon. These must

be

> > in

> > > > > trines/

> > > > > > > seventh house. In the above example, the Pranapada is in

> > Virgo

> > > > > 9Deg

> > > > > > > 49 Min or Pisces navamsa and the Moon is also in Pisces

> > > navamsa as

> > > > > > > he Lagna is in Scorpio Navamsa. Thus both lagna and

Lunar

> > > checks

> > > > > > > work. Some authors try to apply these checks in the Rasi

> > > chart and

> > > > > > > often get very inaccurate results and have to shift the

> > time

> > > by

> > > > > many

> > > > > > > hours to achieve the result!! Please keep this to

yourself

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > be appearing in my next book onbirth time

> > rectification. ... "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The Navamsa lagna (Ta) and Navamsa Moon (Ge) don't

change

> > sign

> > > > > > > from 10:43 to 10:48.

> > > > > > > Now, given that 8 babies were born in 5 minutes, and

that

> > > > > > > pranapada lagna moves a navamsa in every 40 seconds, In

5

> > > minutes,

> > > > > > > the pranapada lagna will move continuously from Ge to Cp

> > > navamsa,

> > > > > > > with reference to static reference points of Navamsa

Lagna

> > and

> > > > > Moon.

> > > > > > > This rule implies that a baby will not be born for some

80

> > > seconds

> > > > > > > i.e. when PP goes to Cn and Le (from 10:43:31 -

10:44:51),

> > > none of

> > > > > > > which are in trines/7th from lagna/Moon. Thus, we cannot

> > have

> > > > > Baby B

> > > > > > > being really born. Also, this will imply a loss of 2

out of

> > > our 7

> > > > > > > unique slots in the D60,D45,D40 idea leaving us with

only 5

> > > > > distinct

> > > > > > > sets. Thus, implying that 7 babies have to be put

closely

> > > > > together in

> > > > > > > 10:45 - 10:48 and with 4 unique slots.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Clearly, this needs to be explored precisely with

> > additional

> > > data

> > > > > > > as it can tell us important information about the

VALIDITY

> > of

> > > this

> > > > > > > birth-time rectification rule.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think this rule could only be validly applied in D-60

and

> > > not in

> > > > > > > D-9, as we will get 27 (4+8+7+8) out of 50 shastyamsa

in 5

> > > minutes

> > > > > > > that satisfy this condition. And these are ample to

allow

> > for

> > > 8

> > > > > > > babies to be born. May be if we employ another

conditional

> > > > > constraint

> > > > > > > on Pranapada in D-40 and D-45 (17-19 slots each), and

find

> > the

> > > > > > > overlaps with D-60 (27 slots), we could get even better

> > with

> > > the

> > > > > > > correctness of birth time. Finding out these correct

slots

> > > could

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > taken as an exercise by somebody in the list.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40gro

> > ups.com>

> > > <sohamsa%

> > > > > 40. com>,

> > > > > Krishnamurthy

> > > > > > > Seetharama

> > > > > > > <kmurthys58@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Jay,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > According to one of the reports on the net, following

> > were

> > > the

> > > > > > > recorded

> > > > > > > > times:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A - 10:43

> > > > > > > > B - 10:44

> > > > > > > > C - 10:45

> > > > > > > > D - 10:45

> > > > > > > > E - 10:46

> > > > > > > > F - 10:47

> > > > > > > > G - 10:48

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss <weissjay@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > Very well said, no argument about the times that you

> > > mention.

> > > > > > > > > However, the main issue here remains unknown (so

far),

> > > which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > " Who was

> > > > > > > > > delivered when " .

> > > > > > > > > 8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds

> > > between

> > > > > each

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > them...

> > > > > > > > > .... and here is where I place my question mark.

> > > > > > > > > I will try to get the exact details if possible AND

if

> > > they

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > recorded

> > > > > > > > > (I guess they were so busy in the delivery

room ...).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > >> Dear Jay,

> > > > > > > > >> What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as

there is

> > a

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >> differentiate?

> > > > > > > > >> In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to

22deg Pi

> > > > > (i.e. 50

> > > > > > > > >> shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't

it

> > > like

> > > > > > > hearing a

> > > > > > > > >> music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event

> > > > > emphasizes the

> > > > > > > > >> importance of prana-pada.

> > > > > > > > >> Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada,

> > there

> > > is a

> > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > >> to differentiate just by combining the three

important

> > > > > > > divisionals

> > > > > > > > >> representative of karmic pattern being derived from

> > > > > matrilineal,

> > > > > > > > >> patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40,

D-

> > 45

> > > and

> > > > > D-60

> > > > > > > > >> resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

> > > > > > > > >> D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

> > > > > > > > >> D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

> > > > > > > > >> D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

> > > > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------

> > > > > > > > >> Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 =

10.

> > > > > However,

> > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > >> of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> E.g. Look at some of these changes

> > > > > > > > >> 10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

> > > > > > > > >> 10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

> > > > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------

- --

> > -------

> > > -

> > > > > > > > >> 10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and D-

40 ---

> > >

> > > Vi

> > > > > > > > >> 10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

> > > > > > > > >> 10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

> > > > > > > > >> 10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

> > > > > > > > >> 10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

> > > > > > > > >> 10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

> > > > > > > > >> 10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

> > > > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------

- --

> > -------

> > > -

> > > > > > > > >> Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5

minutes,

> > and

> > > > > > > therefore

> > > > > > > > >> only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising

in

> > > these

> > > > > three

> > > > > > > > >> charts taken together. This implies that

> > differentiation

> > > > > needs

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > >> made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-

45+D-

> > 40

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > >> way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct

> > > changes.

> > > > > This

> > > > > > > > >> number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct

> > > > > individuals to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > >> born at the same place in a given interval. It will

> > also

> > > > > prove

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > >> a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind

of

> > > higher

> > > > > > > > >> knowledge - just in the same way that all those

things

> > > that

> > > > > > > limit us

> > > > > > > > >> do upon transgression.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> So, unless we are willing to accept that physical

> > > vehicle is

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > > >> there is in the karmic unfoldment of an

individual, we

> > > must

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > open

> > > > > > > > >> to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma

vehicle

> > > behind

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > >> the driving force in determining ones' karmic

destiny.

> > > In a

> > > > > way,

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > >> proves the failure of purely physical karmic

> > astrological

> > > > > basis,

> > > > > > > > >> which is a good point to start enquiry into nature

of

> > > Prana-

> > > > > pada.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Any comments to explore this further are

appreciated.

> > If

> > > we

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > >> good discussion on this topic, i will put this up

as a

> > > post

> > > > > on my

> > > > > > > > >> blog.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> http://wisdomarchiv es.blogspot. com

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Regards,

> > > > > > > > >> Nitish

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> sohamsa@ .com

> > > <sohamsa%40gro ups.com>< sohamsa%

> > > > > 40. com>

> > > > > <sohamsa%

> > > > > > > 40. com>, " J.

> > > > > > > Weiss "

> > > > > > > > >> <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > Friends,

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > According to the information that I could gather

the

> > > data

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > >> followed:

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > 26-January-2009

> > > > > > > > >> > Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby

out)

> > > > > > > > >> > Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical

Center

> > > > > > > > >> > Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > As to the divisional charts - see for

yourself... (I

> > > guess

> > > > > 2-3

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > >> them

> > > > > > > > >> > will also have the same D60).

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > Greetings

> > > > > > > > >> > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Get the world & #39;s best email - http://nz.mail./

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear SS,I don't look for a relationship between Lagna and Kunda in my method.Regards,KrishnaOn Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Krishna and Nitish,

 

am no expert, just curious - the kunda (Leo) is not in trines/7th to

lagna (Cap) with either of the timings...?

 

Best Regards,

SS

 

sohamsa , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

<kmurthys58 wrote:

>

> Dear Nitish,

>

> I did consider hundreds of charts to verify the position of PP in

D9. I have

> reached a conclusion that there is more to it than just checking

PP's

> position with respect to Moon in D9. Obviously, we see to miss

something

> here and need to investigate further to find the missing piece.

>

> Just as an exercise, I tried to rectify your birth time with my own

method

> and I get 10:13:10 as the rectified time. I guess what you have

given is

> already rectified by you. I am not trying to say my method is

superior to

> yours. I would like to know how the time suggested by me fits the

known

> checks you may have used to rectify. If you find time do please

give me a

> feedback. That helps me to fine tune my methodology.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:55 AM, yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

wrote:

>

> > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > Dear Michal,

> > The source of yoga knowledge, chakras etc is from the yoga texts

> > that I read including the biography of Yogiraj Sri Shyamacharan

> > Lahiri, autobiography and Gita commentary by Yogananda and

> > Vivekanadas' commentary on Patanjali Yoga sutras.

> > There is no mystery here, just an inspiration. The

> > realization or derivation has already been posted verbose as it

first

> > occurred to me during the discussion. You may have my chart

details:

> > 12-12-1979, 10:14:10, New Delhi, India

> > Do inform me about your findings .

> > Regards,

> > Nitish

> >

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, Michal

 

> > Dziwulski <nearmichal@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||

> > >

> > > Dear Nitish,

> > >

> > > Firstly, what you wrote about Pranapada was very interesting.

> > >

> > > This forum is useful for sharing information and knowledge. It

is

> > for everyone's benefit that sources are clearly sighted

especially if

> > requested. Page numbers are useful too, if the source is a book or

> > scripture. If it is upadesa from a Jyotish Guru, or your own

> > research or 'realisation' then just say so.

> > >

> > > If the principle you cited did come from personal 'revelation'

then

> > please post your birth details as the SOURCE so we can make an

> > informed assessment.

> > >

> > > We're all doing Jyotish here so no need to be so mysterious.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Michal

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@>

> > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

 

> > > Friday, 30 January, 2009 6:46:47 AM

> > > Re: Birth data of the 8 babies born in L.A.

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > Dear Jay,

> > >

> > > My view of Jyotish is that its purpose is to lead one to

discover

> > > ones' true self by search of deeper truths because Vedas are

> > eternal,

> > > rather than sink in an ocean of chaos by adherence to wrong

> > > principles. Also, eternal knowledge cannot be scraped by any

amount

> > > of transitory effort.

> > >

> > > > Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool

can

> > > > bring forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which

don't.

> > > > There is no other way to make progress in any field of

science.

> > >

> > > An engineer like me would know what statistics and probability

> > > models are used for. What makes you say that this is the only

way

> > to

> > > make progress in any field of science? How do you think BPHS or

> > nadi

> > > shastras were written ?

> > > You should look at the difference between the methods of Vedic-

> > > Mathematics and the prevalent modern methods to realize that the

> > > methodology of knowledge acquisition couldn't have been same to

> > > arrive at different methods to do a task as simple as

> > Multiplication.

> > > According to YOGA Sutras, one pointed concentration on any

object

> > > is the only instrument to get all knowledge related to it.

Quality

> > of

> > > concentration being the only determinant, no UNKNOWN FACTORS

here!

> > >

> > > > We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

> > >

> > > Have you made that kind of effort to be Omniscient ? There are

> > > various grades of sciences and shastras and an infinity of them,

> > but

> > > that doesn't sound as good a reason to attempt to know

everything

> > and

> > > feel helpless at not knowing enough. So, wise attempt to know

the

> > > self and realize the omniscience of mind in that effort.

> > >

> > > > Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the

> > beholder "

> > > > i.e. PERCEPTION.

> > > > So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

> > >

> > > While everything of Maya is only relatively true, there is

always

> > > a greater truth behind the truths we perceive till we reach the

> > > absolute truth beyond Maya. However, " relative truth " cannot be

> > > discarded or replaced by something absurd, whether or not we

have

> > > surpassed the need to depend on those truths. Laws and

principles

> > of

> > > Maya form a formidable and complex structure, difficult to be

> > > penetrated, without any except the deepest inquiries.

> > >

> > > That part only Sanjay can answer as to the origin of his

Pranapada

> > > in D-9 principle, because many things he propounds can be traced

> > back

> > > to parampara such that it becomes a self-proving axiom.

> > >

> > > > What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-

60

> > for

> > > > Pranapada ?

> > >

> > > Does anybody on this list have an issue with the illustration in

> > > my last mail ?

> > > What you refer as SOURCE, is perhaps not what you are asking

for.

> > > You seek a book or something that " reveals " it and was written

by

> > > some ancient Jyotish authority.

> > >

> > > However, I have given the illustration precisely for the same

> > > reason that anybody with any questions about its " relative

> > validity "

> > > can ask those questions and they will get answers according to

my

> > > knowledge of YOGA and Jyotish. Further, I will put it up on my

> > blog,

> > > that will become the publishing SOURCE.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Nitish

> > >

> > > sohamsa@ .com, Jay Weiss <weissjay@ .> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > Your mail took me by surprised, honestly.

> > > >

> > > > Firstly your black & white view of Jyotish principles " ... are

> > > correct or

> > > > not " . In such a case you can (in my opinion) scrap the entire

> > > Jyotish

> > > > principles as we all know that SOME principles work for SOME,

> > > others don't

> > > > BUT not all principles work for all.

> > > > The reason is very simple: UNKNOWN FACTORS! (as in all fields

of

> > > science).

> > > > We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

> > > >

> > > > Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool

can

> > > bring

> > > > forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't.

There

> > is

> > > no other

> > > > way to make progress in any field of science.

> > > >

> > > > As for the 'originator' of the Pranapada in D-9 I can only

refer

> > to

> > > a very

> > > > old mail (on record) written by Sri Sanjay Rath (I think it

was

> > > back in 2001

> > > > or 2002) with an explanation on it's calculation and usage.

Where

> > > he got it

> > > > from I am not sure but it has been used by many ever since.

> > > >

> > > > What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-

60

> > for

> > > > Pranapada ?

> > > >

> > > > Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the

> > beholder "

> > > i.e.

> > > > PERCEPTION.

> > > > So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

> > > > What is 'true' for some is not for others. The word fact

> > (something

> > > which

> > > > can be proven) is probably more in place.

> > > > ... especially in astrology!

> > > >

> > > > Best regards

> > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2009/1/29 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...>

> > > >

> > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > > > > Jyotish is a Vedic science, and it doesn't run on

Statistics.

> > > > > Either a Jyotish principle is correct or it is not. How can

one

> > be

> > > > > born surely by statistically un-reliable principles? The

PRANA-

> > > pada

> > > > > rule for D-9 is grossly incorrect and a misconception of

whoever

> > > > > originated it - read on for the illustration.

> > > > >

> > > > > One cannot understand the PRANA-pada in Jyotish, unless one

> > knows

> > > > > how PRANA functions in body.

> > > > >

> > > > > PRANA in body is divided into 5 specialized forces

operating in

> > 5

> > > > > chakras. Each of these chakras has a gross and a subtle

PRANA

> > > > > associated with it, thus making for 10 distinct bodily PRANA

> > (dash

> > > > > mahavidya). The respective gross/subtle pranas are: " Udana/

> > > > >

Devadatta " , " Prana/Naga " , " Samana/Krikal " , " Vyana/Dhananjaya "

> > and

> > > > > " Apana/Kurma " . Which planets rule which prana, anybody ?

> > > > >

> > > > > These five principle and subtle PRANA together take care of

all

> > > the

> > > > > bodily functions, while the cosmic PRANA in the 6th/agya

chakra

> > > takes

> > > > > one to the realm of omnipresence and omniscience.

> > > > >

> > > > > When a baby is born, he is not breathing because mothers'

bodily

> > > > > PRANA was taking care of all the necessary functions for the

> > baby.

> > > > > So, he has to start breathing, which means coupled

inhalation

> > and

> > > > > exhalation that are driven by opposing forces of " Prana " and

> > > " Apana "

> > > > > respectively.

> > > > >

> > > > > Birth, marked by presence of breath, happens when the

process of

> > > > > breathing is initiated by the combined action of Prana in

Agya

> > > (Ham)

> > > > > and Vishuddhi (SaH) chakras. " Udana " being associated with

> > > Vishuddhi

> > > > > chakra, breath, and with the ether elementary vibration, is

> > > therefore

> > > > > the gross bodily prana for the plane of D-60. Now, Moon

rules

> > > Udana

> > > > > and Sun rules Devadatta. Thus,

> > > > >

> > > > > [YOGAS' RULE FOR BIRTH]

> > > > > For a baby to be born with Breath, the PRANA-pada lagna

should

> > be

> > > in

> > > > > trines/7th to Moon/Sun in D-60.

> > > > >

> > > > > For an ordinary person, at death, his astral body is taken

to

> > the

> > > > > astral realms by the action of outgoing breath or " Apana " .

> > > Therefore,

> > > > > only after one masters the breath by yogic practices (i.e.

> > > controls

> > > > > prana in Agya and Vishuddhi chakras), can he leave his body

at

> > > will,

> > > > > and not be thrown out of it like a mortal.

> > > > >

> > > > > The physical plane D-1 to D-12 is ruled by " Apana " . For a

living

> > > > > and breathing person, force of " Prana " is always stronger

than

> > the

> > > > > force of " Apana " . Since a weaker force cannot drive a

stronger

> > > > > force, there is no way a baby could start breathing by the

> > action

> > > of

> > > > > " Apana " . " Apana " could be useful only for elimination of

baby

> > from

> > > > > mothers' body, or it should be held responsible for

balancing

> > out

> > > the

> > > > > equation with " Prana " to give sensory experiences.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is the only correct version of the principle of birth

in

> > line

> > > > > with the Yogic understanding of PRANA. I have illustrated

the

> > > > > required for the benefit of Jyotish community, and with a

hope

> > > that

> > > > > this will inspire them to make an effort to seek and

realize the

> > > > > truth as well as to question everything that is being

presented

> > as

> > > > > truth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, applying this principle, in the case of 8 babies, we

should

> > > > > look at the time given by the 28 (7+7+7+7) out of 50

> > shastyamsas

> > > for

> > > > > the birth of the babies.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40gro

ups.com>,

> > Jay

> > > Weiss

> > > > > <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > I am well aware of the Pranapada rule and use it daily as

> > well.

> > > > > > However, as I mentioned earlier the average of 5/8 (37

sec.)

> > > makes

> > > > > it very

> > > > > > interesting here 'IF' (1) two babies were born within this

> > time

> > > > > frame (2)

> > > > > > some will have the Pranapada NOT in trines.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Certainly an interesting issue/case for validation,

something

> > > that

> > > > > I always

> > > > > > advocated under the cover name of 'Statistics' .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards

> > > > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2009/1/28 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Long time ago, I had read a rule by Pt. Sanjay Rath

about

> > > using

> > > > > > > pranapada lagna for birth time rectification. See link:

> > > > > > > http://www.indiadiv ine.org/audarya/ vedic astrology-

> > jyotisha/

> > > > > 341103-

> > > > > > > pranapada-rectifica tion-srs- dialogues- zoran.html

> >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here is the relevant text from the link:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " ....Check# Not deviating from the point, see the

navamsa

> > > > > position of

> > > > > > > the Pranapada and that of the Lagna or Moon. These must

be

> > in

> > > > > trines/

> > > > > > > seventh house. In the above example, the Pranapada is in

> > Virgo

> > > > > 9Deg

> > > > > > > 49 Min or Pisces navamsa and the Moon is also in Pisces

> > > navamsa as

> > > > > > > he Lagna is in Scorpio Navamsa. Thus both lagna and

Lunar

> > > checks

> > > > > > > work. Some authors try to apply these checks in the Rasi

> > > chart and

> > > > > > > often get very inaccurate results and have to shift the

> > time

> > > by

> > > > > many

> > > > > > > hours to achieve the result!! Please keep this to

yourself

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > be appearing in my next book onbirth time

> > rectification. ... "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The Navamsa lagna (Ta) and Navamsa Moon (Ge) don't

change

> > sign

> > > > > > > from 10:43 to 10:48.

> > > > > > > Now, given that 8 babies were born in 5 minutes, and

that

> > > > > > > pranapada lagna moves a navamsa in every 40 seconds, In

5

> > > minutes,

> > > > > > > the pranapada lagna will move continuously from Ge to Cp

> > > navamsa,

> > > > > > > with reference to static reference points of Navamsa

Lagna

> > and

> > > > > Moon.

> > > > > > > This rule implies that a baby will not be born for some

80

> > > seconds

> > > > > > > i.e. when PP goes to Cn and Le (from 10:43:31 -

10:44:51),

> > > none of

> > > > > > > which are in trines/7th from lagna/Moon. Thus, we cannot

> > have

> > > > > Baby B

> > > > > > > being really born. Also, this will imply a loss of 2

out of

> > > our 7

> > > > > > > unique slots in the D60,D45,D40 idea leaving us with

only 5

> > > > > distinct

> > > > > > > sets. Thus, implying that 7 babies have to be put

closely

> > > > > together in

> > > > > > > 10:45 - 10:48 and with 4 unique slots.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Clearly, this needs to be explored precisely with

> > additional

> > > data

> > > > > > > as it can tell us important information about the

VALIDITY

> > of

> > > this

> > > > > > > birth-time rectification rule.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think this rule could only be validly applied in D-60

and

> > > not in

> > > > > > > D-9, as we will get 27 (4+8+7+8) out of 50 shastyamsa

in 5

> > > minutes

> > > > > > > that satisfy this condition. And these are ample to

allow

> > for

> > > 8

> > > > > > > babies to be born. May be if we employ another

conditional

> > > > > constraint

> > > > > > > on Pranapada in D-40 and D-45 (17-19 slots each), and

find

> > the

> > > > > > > overlaps with D-60 (27 slots), we could get even better

> > with

> > > the

> > > > > > > correctness of birth time. Finding out these correct

slots

> > > could

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > taken as an exercise by somebody in the list.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40gro

> > ups.com>

> > > <sohamsa%

> > > > > 40. com>,

> > > > > Krishnamurthy

> > > > > > > Seetharama

> > > > > > > <kmurthys58@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Jay,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > According to one of the reports on the net, following

> > were

> > > the

> > > > > > > recorded

> > > > > > > > times:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A - 10:43

> > > > > > > > B - 10:44

> > > > > > > > C - 10:45

> > > > > > > > D - 10:45

> > > > > > > > E - 10:46

> > > > > > > > F - 10:47

> > > > > > > > G - 10:48

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss <weissjay@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > Very well said, no argument about the times that you

> > > mention.

> > > > > > > > > However, the main issue here remains unknown (so

far),

> > > which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > " Who was

> > > > > > > > > delivered when " .

> > > > > > > > > 8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds

> > > between

> > > > > each

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > them...

> > > > > > > > > .... and here is where I place my question mark.

> > > > > > > > > I will try to get the exact details if possible AND

if

> > > they

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > recorded

> > > > > > > > > (I guess they were so busy in the delivery

room ...).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > >> Dear Jay,

> > > > > > > > >> What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as

there is

> > a

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >> differentiate?

> > > > > > > > >> In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to

22deg Pi

> > > > > (i.e. 50

> > > > > > > > >> shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't

it

> > > like

> > > > > > > hearing a

> > > > > > > > >> music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event

> > > > > emphasizes the

> > > > > > > > >> importance of prana-pada.

> > > > > > > > >> Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada,

> > there

> > > is a

> > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > >> to differentiate just by combining the three

important

> > > > > > > divisionals

> > > > > > > > >> representative of karmic pattern being derived from

> > > > > matrilineal,

> > > > > > > > >> patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40,

D-

> > 45

> > > and

> > > > > D-60

> > > > > > > > >> resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

> > > > > > > > >> D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

> > > > > > > > >> D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

> > > > > > > > >> D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

> > > > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------

> > > > > > > > >> Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 =

10.

> > > > > However,

> > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > >> of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> E.g. Look at some of these changes

> > > > > > > > >> 10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

> > > > > > > > >> 10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

> > > > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------

- --

> > -------

> > > -

> > > > > > > > >> 10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and D-

40 ---

> > >

> > > Vi

> > > > > > > > >> 10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

> > > > > > > > >> 10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

> > > > > > > > >> 10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

> > > > > > > > >> 10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

> > > > > > > > >> 10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

> > > > > > > > >> 10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

> > > > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------

- --

> > -------

> > > -

> > > > > > > > >> Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5

minutes,

> > and

> > > > > > > therefore

> > > > > > > > >> only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising

in

> > > these

> > > > > three

> > > > > > > > >> charts taken together. This implies that

> > differentiation

> > > > > needs

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > >> made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-

45+D-

> > 40

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > >> way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct

> > > changes.

> > > > > This

> > > > > > > > >> number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct

> > > > > individuals to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > >> born at the same place in a given interval. It will

> > also

> > > > > prove

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > >> a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind

of

> > > higher

> > > > > > > > >> knowledge - just in the same way that all those

things

> > > that

> > > > > > > limit us

> > > > > > > > >> do upon transgression.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> So, unless we are willing to accept that physical

> > > vehicle is

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > > >> there is in the karmic unfoldment of an

individual, we

> > > must

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > open

> > > > > > > > >> to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma

vehicle

> > > behind

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > >> the driving force in determining ones' karmic

destiny.

> > > In a

> > > > > way,

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > >> proves the failure of purely physical karmic

> > astrological

> > > > > basis,

> > > > > > > > >> which is a good point to start enquiry into nature

of

> > > Prana-

> > > > > pada.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Any comments to explore this further are

appreciated.

> > If

> > > we

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > >> good discussion on this topic, i will put this up

as a

> > > post

> > > > > on my

> > > > > > > > >> blog.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> http://wisdomarchiv es.blogspot. com

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Regards,

> > > > > > > > >> Nitish

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> sohamsa@ .com

> > > <sohamsa%40gro ups.com>< sohamsa%

> > > > > 40. com>

> > > > > <sohamsa%

> > > > > > > 40. com>, " J.

> > > > > > > Weiss "

> > > > > > > > >> <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > Friends,

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > According to the information that I could gather

the

> > > data

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > >> followed:

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > 26-January-2009

> > > > > > > > >> > Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby

out)

> > > > > > > > >> > Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical

Center

> > > > > > > > >> > Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > As to the divisional charts - see for

yourself... (I

> > > guess

> > > > > 2-3

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > >> them

> > > > > > > > >> > will also have the same D60).

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > Greetings

> > > > > > > > >> > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Get the world & #39;s best email - http://nz.mail./

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nitish ji,I am looking forward to your explanation...Regards,KrishnaOn Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:22 PM, yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Krishna ji,

As per my understanding, the correct time is 10:13:42. I will

explain it in detail later to complete the picture on birth time

rectification and finish off this thread forever.

 

Regards,

Nitish

 

sohamsa , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

<kmurthys58 wrote:

>

> Dear Nitish,

>

> I did consider hundreds of charts to verify the position of PP in

D9. I have

> reached a conclusion that there is more to it than just checking

PP's

> position with respect to Moon in D9. Obviously, we see to miss

something

> here and need to investigate further to find the missing piece.

>

> Just as an exercise, I tried to rectify your birth time with my own

method

> and I get 10:13:10 as the rectified time. I guess what you have

given is

> already rectified by you. I am not trying to say my method is

superior to

> yours. I would like to know how the time suggested by me fits the

known

> checks you may have used to rectify. If you find time do please

give me a

> feedback. That helps me to fine tune my methodology.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:55 AM, yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

wrote:

>

> > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > Dear Michal,

> > The source of yoga knowledge, chakras etc is from the yoga texts

> > that I read including the biography of Yogiraj Sri Shyamacharan

> > Lahiri, autobiography and Gita commentary by Yogananda and

> > Vivekanadas' commentary on Patanjali Yoga sutras.

> > There is no mystery here, just an inspiration. The

> > realization or derivation has already been posted verbose as it

first

> > occurred to me during the discussion. You may have my chart

details:

> > 12-12-1979, 10:14:10, New Delhi, India

> > Do inform me about your findings .

> > Regards,

> > Nitish

> >

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, Michal

 

> > Dziwulski <nearmichal@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||

> > >

> > > Dear Nitish,

> > >

> > > Firstly, what you wrote about Pranapada was very interesting.

> > >

> > > This forum is useful for sharing information and knowledge. It

is

> > for everyone's benefit that sources are clearly sighted

especially if

> > requested. Page numbers are useful too, if the source is a book or

> > scripture. If it is upadesa from a Jyotish Guru, or your own

> > research or 'realisation' then just say so.

> > >

> > > If the principle you cited did come from personal 'revelation'

then

> > please post your birth details as the SOURCE so we can make an

> > informed assessment.

> > >

> > > We're all doing Jyotish here so no need to be so mysterious.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Michal

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@>

> > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

 

> > > Friday, 30 January, 2009 6:46:47 AM

> > > Re: Birth data of the 8 babies born in L.A.

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > Dear Jay,

> > >

> > > My view of Jyotish is that its purpose is to lead one to

discover

> > > ones' true self by search of deeper truths because Vedas are

> > eternal,

> > > rather than sink in an ocean of chaos by adherence to wrong

> > > principles. Also, eternal knowledge cannot be scraped by any

amount

> > > of transitory effort.

> > >

> > > > Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool

can

> > > > bring forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which

don't.

> > > > There is no other way to make progress in any field of

science.

> > >

> > > An engineer like me would know what statistics and probability

> > > models are used for. What makes you say that this is the only

way

> > to

> > > make progress in any field of science? How do you think BPHS or

> > nadi

> > > shastras were written ?

> > > You should look at the difference between the methods of Vedic-

> > > Mathematics and the prevalent modern methods to realize that the

> > > methodology of knowledge acquisition couldn't have been same to

> > > arrive at different methods to do a task as simple as

> > Multiplication.

> > > According to YOGA Sutras, one pointed concentration on any

object

> > > is the only instrument to get all knowledge related to it.

Quality

> > of

> > > concentration being the only determinant, no UNKNOWN FACTORS

here!

> > >

> > > > We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

> > >

> > > Have you made that kind of effort to be Omniscient ? There are

> > > various grades of sciences and shastras and an infinity of them,

> > but

> > > that doesn't sound as good a reason to attempt to know

everything

> > and

> > > feel helpless at not knowing enough. So, wise attempt to know

the

> > > self and realize the omniscience of mind in that effort.

> > >

> > > > Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the

> > beholder "

> > > > i.e. PERCEPTION.

> > > > So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

> > >

> > > While everything of Maya is only relatively true, there is

always

> > > a greater truth behind the truths we perceive till we reach the

> > > absolute truth beyond Maya. However, " relative truth " cannot be

> > > discarded or replaced by something absurd, whether or not we

have

> > > surpassed the need to depend on those truths. Laws and

principles

> > of

> > > Maya form a formidable and complex structure, difficult to be

> > > penetrated, without any except the deepest inquiries.

> > >

> > > That part only Sanjay can answer as to the origin of his

Pranapada

> > > in D-9 principle, because many things he propounds can be traced

> > back

> > > to parampara such that it becomes a self-proving axiom.

> > >

> > > > What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-

60

> > for

> > > > Pranapada ?

> > >

> > > Does anybody on this list have an issue with the illustration in

> > > my last mail ?

> > > What you refer as SOURCE, is perhaps not what you are asking

for.

> > > You seek a book or something that " reveals " it and was written

by

> > > some ancient Jyotish authority.

> > >

> > > However, I have given the illustration precisely for the same

> > > reason that anybody with any questions about its " relative

> > validity "

> > > can ask those questions and they will get answers according to

my

> > > knowledge of YOGA and Jyotish. Further, I will put it up on my

> > blog,

> > > that will become the publishing SOURCE.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Nitish

> > >

> > > sohamsa@ .com, Jay Weiss <weissjay@ .> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > Your mail took me by surprised, honestly.

> > > >

> > > > Firstly your black & white view of Jyotish principles " ... are

> > > correct or

> > > > not " . In such a case you can (in my opinion) scrap the entire

> > > Jyotish

> > > > principles as we all know that SOME principles work for SOME,

> > > others don't

> > > > BUT not all principles work for all.

> > > > The reason is very simple: UNKNOWN FACTORS! (as in all fields

of

> > > science).

> > > > We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

> > > >

> > > > Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool

can

> > > bring

> > > > forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't.

There

> > is

> > > no other

> > > > way to make progress in any field of science.

> > > >

> > > > As for the 'originator' of the Pranapada in D-9 I can only

refer

> > to

> > > a very

> > > > old mail (on record) written by Sri Sanjay Rath (I think it

was

> > > back in 2001

> > > > or 2002) with an explanation on it's calculation and usage.

Where

> > > he got it

> > > > from I am not sure but it has been used by many ever since.

> > > >

> > > > What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-

60

> > for

> > > > Pranapada ?

> > > >

> > > > Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the

> > beholder "

> > > i.e.

> > > > PERCEPTION.

> > > > So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

> > > > What is 'true' for some is not for others. The word fact

> > (something

> > > which

> > > > can be proven) is probably more in place.

> > > > ... especially in astrology!

> > > >

> > > > Best regards

> > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2009/1/29 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...>

> > > >

> > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > > > > Jyotish is a Vedic science, and it doesn't run on

Statistics.

> > > > > Either a Jyotish principle is correct or it is not. How can

one

> > be

> > > > > born surely by statistically un-reliable principles? The

PRANA-

> > > pada

> > > > > rule for D-9 is grossly incorrect and a misconception of

whoever

> > > > > originated it - read on for the illustration.

> > > > >

> > > > > One cannot understand the PRANA-pada in Jyotish, unless one

> > knows

> > > > > how PRANA functions in body.

> > > > >

> > > > > PRANA in body is divided into 5 specialized forces

operating in

> > 5

> > > > > chakras. Each of these chakras has a gross and a subtle

PRANA

> > > > > associated with it, thus making for 10 distinct bodily PRANA

> > (dash

> > > > > mahavidya). The respective gross/subtle pranas are: " Udana/

> > > > > Devadatta " , " Prana/Naga " , " Samana/Krikal " , " Vyana/

Dhananjaya "

> > and

> > > > > " Apana/Kurma " . Which planets rule which prana, anybody ?

> > > > >

> > > > > These five principle and subtle PRANA together take care of

all

> > > the

> > > > > bodily functions, while the cosmic PRANA in the 6th/agya

chakra

> > > takes

> > > > > one to the realm of omnipresence and omniscience.

> > > > >

> > > > > When a baby is born, he is not breathing because mothers'

bodily

> > > > > PRANA was taking care of all the necessary functions for the

> > baby.

> > > > > So, he has to start breathing, which means coupled

inhalation

> > and

> > > > > exhalation that are driven by opposing forces of " Prana " and

> > > " Apana "

> > > > > respectively.

> > > > >

> > > > > Birth, marked by presence of breath, happens when the

process of

> > > > > breathing is initiated by the combined action of Prana in

Agya

> > > (Ham)

> > > > > and Vishuddhi (SaH) chakras. " Udana " being associated with

> > > Vishuddhi

> > > > > chakra, breath, and with the ether elementary vibration, is

> > > therefore

> > > > > the gross bodily prana for the plane of D-60. Now, Moon

rules

> > > Udana

> > > > > and Sun rules Devadatta. Thus,

> > > > >

> > > > > [YOGAS' RULE FOR BIRTH]

> > > > > For a baby to be born with Breath, the PRANA-pada lagna

should

> > be

> > > in

> > > > > trines/7th to Moon/Sun in D-60.

> > > > >

> > > > > For an ordinary person, at death, his astral body is taken

to

> > the

> > > > > astral realms by the action of outgoing breath or " Apana " .

> > > Therefore,

> > > > > only after one masters the breath by yogic practices (i.e.

> > > controls

> > > > > prana in Agya and Vishuddhi chakras), can he leave his body

at

> > > will,

> > > > > and not be thrown out of it like a mortal.

> > > > >

> > > > > The physical plane D-1 to D-12 is ruled by " Apana " . For a

living

> > > > > and breathing person, force of " Prana " is always stronger

than

> > the

> > > > > force of " Apana " . Since a weaker force cannot drive a

stronger

> > > > > force, there is no way a baby could start breathing by the

> > action

> > > of

> > > > > " Apana " . " Apana " could be useful only for elimination of

baby

> > from

> > > > > mothers' body, or it should be held responsible for

balancing

> > out

> > > the

> > > > > equation with " Prana " to give sensory experiences.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is the only correct version of the principle of birth

in

> > line

> > > > > with the Yogic understanding of PRANA. I have illustrated

the

> > > > > required for the benefit of Jyotish community, and with a

hope

> > > that

> > > > > this will inspire them to make an effort to seek and

realize the

> > > > > truth as well as to question everything that is being

presented

> > as

> > > > > truth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, applying this principle, in the case of 8 babies, we

should

> > > > > look at the time given by the 28 (7+7+7+7) out of 50

> > shastyamsas

> > > for

> > > > > the birth of the babies.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40gro

ups.com>,

> > Jay

> > > Weiss

> > > > > <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > I am well aware of the Pranapada rule and use it daily as

> > well.

> > > > > > However, as I mentioned earlier the average of 5/8 (37

sec.)

> > > makes

> > > > > it very

> > > > > > interesting here 'IF' (1) two babies were born within this

> > time

> > > > > frame (2)

> > > > > > some will have the Pranapada NOT in trines.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Certainly an interesting issue/case for validation,

something

> > > that

> > > > > I always

> > > > > > advocated under the cover name of 'Statistics' .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards

> > > > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2009/1/28 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Long time ago, I had read a rule by Pt. Sanjay Rath

about

> > > using

> > > > > > > pranapada lagna for birth time rectification. See link:

> > > > > > > http://www.indiadiv ine.org/audarya/ vedic astrology-

> > jyotisha/

> > > > > 341103-

> > > > > > > pranapada-rectifica tion-srs- dialogues- zoran.html

> >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here is the relevant text from the link:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " ....Check# Not deviating from the point, see the

navamsa

> > > > > position of

> > > > > > > the Pranapada and that of the Lagna or Moon. These must

be

> > in

> > > > > trines/

> > > > > > > seventh house. In the above example, the Pranapada is in

> > Virgo

> > > > > 9Deg

> > > > > > > 49 Min or Pisces navamsa and the Moon is also in Pisces

> > > navamsa as

> > > > > > > he Lagna is in Scorpio Navamsa. Thus both lagna and

Lunar

> > > checks

> > > > > > > work. Some authors try to apply these checks in the Rasi

> > > chart and

> > > > > > > often get very inaccurate results and have to shift the

> > time

> > > by

> > > > > many

> > > > > > > hours to achieve the result!! Please keep this to

yourself

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > be appearing in my next book onbirth time

> > rectification. ... "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The Navamsa lagna (Ta) and Navamsa Moon (Ge) don't

change

> > sign

> > > > > > > from 10:43 to 10:48.

> > > > > > > Now, given that 8 babies were born in 5 minutes, and

that

> > > > > > > pranapada lagna moves a navamsa in every 40 seconds, In

5

> > > minutes,

> > > > > > > the pranapada lagna will move continuously from Ge to Cp

> > > navamsa,

> > > > > > > with reference to static reference points of Navamsa

Lagna

> > and

> > > > > Moon.

> > > > > > > This rule implies that a baby will not be born for some

80

> > > seconds

> > > > > > > i.e. when PP goes to Cn and Le (from 10:43:31 -

10:44:51),

> > > none of

> > > > > > > which are in trines/7th from lagna/Moon. Thus, we cannot

> > have

> > > > > Baby B

> > > > > > > being really born. Also, this will imply a loss of 2

out of

> > > our 7

> > > > > > > unique slots in the D60,D45,D40 idea leaving us with

only 5

> > > > > distinct

> > > > > > > sets. Thus, implying that 7 babies have to be put

closely

> > > > > together in

> > > > > > > 10:45 - 10:48 and with 4 unique slots.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Clearly, this needs to be explored precisely with

> > additional

> > > data

> > > > > > > as it can tell us important information about the

VALIDITY

> > of

> > > this

> > > > > > > birth-time rectification rule.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think this rule could only be validly applied in D-60

and

> > > not in

> > > > > > > D-9, as we will get 27 (4+8+7+8) out of 50 shastyamsa

in 5

> > > minutes

> > > > > > > that satisfy this condition. And these are ample to

allow

> > for

> > > 8

> > > > > > > babies to be born. May be if we employ another

conditional

> > > > > constraint

> > > > > > > on Pranapada in D-40 and D-45 (17-19 slots each), and

find

> > the

> > > > > > > overlaps with D-60 (27 slots), we could get even better

> > with

> > > the

> > > > > > > correctness of birth time. Finding out these correct

slots

> > > could

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > taken as an exercise by somebody in the list.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40gro

> > ups.com>

> > > <sohamsa%

> > > > > 40. com>,

> > > > > Krishnamurthy

> > > > > > > Seetharama

> > > > > > > <kmurthys58@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Jay,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > According to one of the reports on the net, following

> > were

> > > the

> > > > > > > recorded

> > > > > > > > times:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A - 10:43

> > > > > > > > B - 10:44

> > > > > > > > C - 10:45

> > > > > > > > D - 10:45

> > > > > > > > E - 10:46

> > > > > > > > F - 10:47

> > > > > > > > G - 10:48

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss <weissjay@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > Very well said, no argument about the times that you

> > > mention.

> > > > > > > > > However, the main issue here remains unknown (so

far),

> > > which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > " Who was

> > > > > > > > > delivered when " .

> > > > > > > > > 8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds

> > > between

> > > > > each

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > them...

> > > > > > > > > .... and here is where I place my question mark.

> > > > > > > > > I will try to get the exact details if possible AND

if

> > > they

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > recorded

> > > > > > > > > (I guess they were so busy in the delivery room

....).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > >> Dear Jay,

> > > > > > > > >> What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as

there is

> > a

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >> differentiate?

> > > > > > > > >> In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to

22deg Pi

> > > > > (i.e. 50

> > > > > > > > >> shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't

it

> > > like

> > > > > > > hearing a

> > > > > > > > >> music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event

> > > > > emphasizes the

> > > > > > > > >> importance of prana-pada.

> > > > > > > > >> Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada,

> > there

> > > is a

> > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > >> to differentiate just by combining the three

important

> > > > > > > divisionals

> > > > > > > > >> representative of karmic pattern being derived from

> > > > > matrilineal,

> > > > > > > > >> patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40,

D-

> > 45

> > > and

> > > > > D-60

> > > > > > > > >> resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

> > > > > > > > >> D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

> > > > > > > > >> D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

> > > > > > > > >> D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

> > > > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------

> > > > > > > > >> Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 =

10.

> > > > > However,

> > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > >> of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> E.g. Look at some of these changes

> > > > > > > > >> 10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

> > > > > > > > >> 10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

> > > > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------

- --

> > -------

> > > -

> > > > > > > > >> 10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and D-

40 ---

> > >

> > > Vi

> > > > > > > > >> 10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

> > > > > > > > >> 10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

> > > > > > > > >> 10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

> > > > > > > > >> 10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

> > > > > > > > >> 10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

> > > > > > > > >> 10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

> > > > > > > > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------

- --

> > -------

> > > -

> > > > > > > > >> Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5

minutes,

> > and

> > > > > > > therefore

> > > > > > > > >> only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising

in

> > > these

> > > > > three

> > > > > > > > >> charts taken together. This implies that

> > differentiation

> > > > > needs

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > >> made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-

45+D-

> > 40

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > >> way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct

> > > changes.

> > > > > This

> > > > > > > > >> number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct

> > > > > individuals to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > >> born at the same place in a given interval. It will

> > also

> > > > > prove

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > >> a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind

of

> > > higher

> > > > > > > > >> knowledge - just in the same way that all those

things

> > > that

> > > > > > > limit us

> > > > > > > > >> do upon transgression.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> So, unless we are willing to accept that physical

> > > vehicle is

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > > >> there is in the karmic unfoldment of an

individual, we

> > > must

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > open

> > > > > > > > >> to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma

vehicle

> > > behind

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > >> the driving force in determining ones' karmic

destiny.

> > > In a

> > > > > way,

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > >> proves the failure of purely physical karmic

> > astrological

> > > > > basis,

> > > > > > > > >> which is a good point to start enquiry into nature

of

> > > Prana-

> > > > > pada.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Any comments to explore this further are

appreciated.

> > If

> > > we

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > >> good discussion on this topic, i will put this up

as a

> > > post

> > > > > on my

> > > > > > > > >> blog.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> http://wisdomarchiv es.blogspot. com

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Regards,

> > > > > > > > >> Nitish

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> sohamsa@ .com

> > > <sohamsa%40gro ups.com>< sohamsa%

> > > > > 40. com>

> > > > > <sohamsa%

> > > > > > > 40. com>, " J.

> > > > > > > Weiss "

> > > > > > > > >> <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > Friends,

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > According to the information that I could gather

the

> > > data

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > >> followed:

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > 26-January-2009

> > > > > > > > >> > Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby

out)

> > > > > > > > >> > Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical

Center

> > > > > > > > >> > Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > As to the divisional charts - see for

yourself... (I

> > > guess

> > > > > 2-3

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > >> them

> > > > > > > > >> > will also have the same D60).

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >> > Greetings

> > > > > > > > >> > /Jay Weiss

> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Get the world & #39;s best email - http://nz.mail./

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

om paramesthi gurave namah

Dear Nitish/Jay

Firstly I thank you for accepting the scheme of five levels of

D-Charts of Parashara using Aurobindo words to understand the level of

consciousness. [You talked of D1 to D12 as physical level or physical

consciousness].

 

Secondly, your principle of using D60 in this manner is not

correct. The yoga principles you mention are very fine and well accepted but

your interpolation of the same in this manner into jyotish is not. Birth or

JANMA is the Apana Prana domination where the baby expels the mothers prana and

ememrges from the womb. The correct manner of fixing the pranapada should take

into account the conception chart (Adhana chakra not Nisheka). D9 trines to

Moon of the Pranapada is the process of fixing this event of expulsion of the

baby (native) from the mothers womb. In fact the more accurate method would be

to map this to the Moon and not have the huge gap or take an approximation.

There are issues about the sunrise time and until we have fully sorted those

out it is not desirable to make comments that can confuse further.

 

The final timing of birth is based on catur-pada of the

naadiamsha of Lagna. That is a very fine time and should suffice. Nitish, D60

is a finer supra consciousness level of the D12. It is the past which has karma

that maps into the present. It is like a microscopic examination of the 12th

house and its calculation is exactly the same as the D12 also.

 

Nitish, can I request you to put your focus on this Naadiamsha

and see if you can come up with something about pranapada. I was taught that a

human being is born every 54 seconds apart! That is the real truth to

praanapada, so we need to find out how to get this from the chart. Also please

check the relevance of janma vighatika graha to pranapada.

 

With Warm Regards

Sanjay Rath

http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

 

 

 

 

sohamsa

[sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Jay Weiss

29 January 2009 13:24

sohamsa

Re: Re: Birth data of the 8 babies born in L.A.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Nitish,

 

 

 

 

Your mail took me by surprised, honestly.

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly your black & white view of Jyotish principles

" ... are correct or not " . In such a case you can (in my opinion)

scrap the entire Jyotish principles as we all know that SOME principles work

for SOME, others don't BUT not all principles work for all.

 

 

The reason is very simple: UNKNOWN FACTORS! (as in all

fields of science).

 

 

We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

 

 

 

 

 

Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool

can bring forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't. There is no

other way to make progress in any field of science.

 

 

 

 

 

As for the 'originator' of the Pranapada in D-9 I can

only refer to a very old mail (on record) written by Sri Sanjay Rath

(I think it was back in 2001 or 2002) with an explanation on it's calculation

and usage. Where he got it from I am not sure but it has been used by many ever

since.

 

 

 

 

 

What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive

D-60 for Pranapada ?

 

 

 

 

 

Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of

the beholder " i.e. PERCEPTION.

 

 

So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

 

 

What is 'true' for some is not for others. The word fact

(something which can be proven) is probably more in place.

 

 

.... especially in astrology!

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards

 

 

/Jay Weiss

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2009/1/29 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

 

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Jay, Sanjay,

 

Jyotish is a Vedic science, and it

doesn't run on Statistics.

Either a Jyotish principle is correct or it is not. How can one be

born surely by statistically un-reliable principles? The PRANA-pada

rule for D-9 is grossly incorrect and a misconception of whoever

originated it - read on for the illustration.

 

One cannot understand the PRANA-pada in Jyotish, unless one knows

how PRANA functions in body.

 

PRANA in body is divided into 5 specialized forces operating in 5

chakras. Each of these chakras has a gross and a subtle PRANA

associated with it, thus making for 10 distinct bodily PRANA (dash

mahavidya). The respective gross/subtle pranas are: " Udana/

Devadatta " , " Prana/Naga " , " Samana/Krikal " ,

" Vyana/Dhananjaya " and

" Apana/Kurma " . Which planets rule which prana, anybody ?

 

These five principle and subtle PRANA together take care of all the

bodily functions, while the cosmic PRANA in the 6th/agya chakra takes

one to the realm of omnipresence and omniscience.

 

When a baby is born, he is not breathing because mothers' bodily

PRANA was taking care of all the necessary functions for the baby.

So, he has to start breathing, which means coupled inhalation and

exhalation that are driven by opposing forces of " Prana " and

" Apana "

respectively.

 

Birth, marked by presence of breath, happens when the process of

breathing is initiated by the combined action of Prana in Agya (Ham)

and Vishuddhi (SaH) chakras. " Udana " being associated with Vishuddhi

chakra, breath, and with the ether elementary vibration, is therefore

the gross bodily prana for the plane of D-60. Now, Moon rules Udana

and Sun rules Devadatta. Thus,

 

[YOGAS' RULE FOR BIRTH]

For a baby to be born with Breath, the PRANA-pada lagna should be in

trines/7th to Moon/Sun in D-60.

 

For an ordinary person, at death, his astral body is taken to the

astral realms by the action of outgoing breath or " Apana " . Therefore,

 

only after one masters the breath by yogic practices (i.e. controls

prana in Agya and Vishuddhi chakras), can he leave his body at will,

and not be thrown out of it like a mortal.

 

The physical plane D-1 to D-12 is ruled by " Apana " . For a living

and breathing person, force of " Prana " is always stronger than the

force of " Apana " . Since a weaker force cannot drive a stronger

force, there is no way a baby could start breathing by the action of

" Apana " . " Apana " could be useful only for elimination of

baby from

mothers' body, or it should be held responsible for balancing out the

equation with " Prana " to give sensory experiences.

 

This is the only correct version of the principle of birth in line

with the Yogic understanding of PRANA. I have illustrated the

required for the benefit of Jyotish community, and with a hope that

this will inspire them to make an effort to seek and realize the

truth as well as to question everything that is being presented as

truth.

 

Now, applying this principle, in the case of 8 babies, we should

look at the time given by the 28 (7+7+7+7) out of 50 shastyamsas for

the birth of the babies.

 

Regards,

Nitish

 

 

 

sohamsa ,

Jay Weiss <weissjay wrote:

>

> Dear Nitish,

 

 

> I am well aware of the

Pranapada rule and use it daily as well.

> However, as I mentioned earlier the average of 5/8 (37 sec.) makes

it very

> interesting here 'IF' (1) two babies were born within this time

frame (2)

> some will have the Pranapada NOT in trines.

>

> Certainly an interesting issue/case for validation, something that

I always

> advocated under the cover name of 'Statistics'.

>

> Best regards

> /Jay Weiss

>

>

>

 

> 2009/1/28 yeeahoo_99

<nitish.arya

 

 

 

>

> > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> >

> > Long time ago, I had read a rule by Pt. Sanjay Rath about using

> > pranapada lagna for birth time rectification. See link:

> > http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic astrology-jyotisha/

341103-

> > pranapada-rectification-srs-dialogues-zoran.html

> >

> > Here is the relevant text from the link:

> >

> > " ....Check# Not deviating from the point, see the navamsa

position of

> > the Pranapada and that of the Lagna or Moon. These must be in

trines/

> > seventh house. In the above example, the Pranapada is in Virgo

9Deg

> > 49 Min or Pisces navamsa and the Moon is also in Pisces navamsa as

> > he Lagna is in Scorpio Navamsa. Thus both lagna and Lunar checks

> > work. Some authors try to apply these checks in the Rasi chart and

> > often get very inaccurate results and have to shift the time by

many

> > hours to achieve the result!! Please keep this to yourself as it

will

> > be appearing in my next book onbirth time rectification.... "

> >

> > The Navamsa lagna (Ta) and Navamsa Moon (Ge) don't change sign

> > from 10:43 to 10:48.

> > Now, given that 8 babies were born in 5 minutes, and that

> > pranapada lagna moves a navamsa in every 40 seconds, In 5 minutes,

> > the pranapada lagna will move continuously from Ge to Cp navamsa,

> > with reference to static reference points of Navamsa Lagna and

Moon.

> > This rule implies that a baby will not be born for some 80 seconds

> > i.e. when PP goes to Cn and Le (from 10:43:31 - 10:44:51), none of

> > which are in trines/7th from lagna/Moon. Thus, we cannot have

Baby B

> > being really born. Also, this will imply a loss of 2 out of our 7

> > unique slots in the D60,D45,D40 idea leaving us with only 5

distinct

> > sets. Thus, implying that 7 babies have to be put closely

together in

> > 10:45 - 10:48 and with 4 unique slots.

> >

> > Clearly, this needs to be explored precisely with additional data

> > as it can tell us important information about the VALIDITY of this

> > birth-time rectification rule.

> >

> > I think this rule could only be validly applied in D-60 and not in

> > D-9, as we will get 27 (4+8+7+8) out of 50 shastyamsa in 5 minutes

> > that satisfy this condition. And these are ample to allow for 8

> > babies to be born. May be if we employ another conditional

constraint

> > on Pranapada in D-40 and D-45 (17-19 slots each), and find the

> > overlaps with D-60 (27 slots), we could get even better with the

> > correctness of birth time. Finding out these correct slots could

be

> > taken as an exercise by somebody in the list.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Nitish

 

 

> > sohamsa

<sohamsa%40>,

 

 

 

Krishnamurthy

> > Seetharama

> > <kmurthys58@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Jay,

> > >

> > > According to one of the reports on the net, following were the

> > recorded

> > > times:

> > >

> > > A - 10:43

> > > B - 10:44

> > > C - 10:45

> > > D - 10:45

> > > E - 10:46

> > > F - 10:47

> > > G - 10:48

> > >

> > > But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss <weissjay@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > Very well said, no argument about the times that you

mention.

> > > > However, the main issue here remains unknown (so far),

which

is

> > " Who was

> > > > delivered when " .

> > > > 8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds

between

each

> > of

> > > > them...

> > > > .... and here is where I place my question mark.

> > > > I will try to get the exact details if possible AND if they

 

were

> > recorded

> > > > (I guess they were so busy in the delivery room ...).

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@>

> >

> > > >

> > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > >> Dear Jay,

> > > >> What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as there is

a

reason

> > to

> > > >> differentiate?

> > > >> In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to 22deg Pi

 

(i.e. 50

> > > >> shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't it

like

> > hearing a

> > > >> music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event

emphasizes the

> > > >> importance of prana-pada.

> > > >> Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada, there

is a

> > reason

> > > >> to differentiate just by combining the three important

> > divisionals

> > > >> representative of karmic pattern being derived from

matrilineal,

> > > >> patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40, D-45

and

D-60

> > > >> resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

> > > >> D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

> > > >> D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

> > > >> D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

> > > >> -----------------------------

> > > >> Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 = 10.

However,

> > some

> > > >> of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

> > > >>

> > > >> E.g. Look at some of these changes

> > > >> 10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

> > > >> 10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

> > > >> -------------------------

> > > >> 10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and

D-40 ---> Vi

> > > >> 10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

> > > >> 10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

> > > >> 10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

> > > >> 10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

> > > >> 10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

> > > >> 10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

> > > >> -------------------------

> > > >> Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5 minutes,

and

> > therefore

> > > >> only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising in

these

three

> > > >> charts taken together. This implies that

differentiation

needs

> > to be

> > > >> made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-45+D-40

in

the

> > same

> > > >> way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct

changes.

This

> > > >> number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct

individuals to

> > be

> > > >> born at the same place in a given interval. It will

also

prove

> > to be

> > > >> a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind of

higher

> > > >> knowledge - just in the same way that all those things

that

> > limit us

> > > >> do upon transgression.

> > > >>

> > > >> So, unless we are willing to accept that physical

vehicle is

all

> > > >> there is in the karmic unfoldment of an individual, we

must

be

> > open

> > > >> to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma vehicle

behind

it

> > as

> > > >> the driving force in determining ones' karmic destiny.

In a

way,

> > this

> > > >> proves the failure of purely physical karmic

astrological

basis,

> > > >> which is a good point to start enquiry into nature of

Prana-

pada.

> > > >>

> > > >> Any comments to explore this further are appreciated.

If we

have

> > a

> > > >> good discussion on this topic, i will put this up as a

post

on my

> > > >> blog.

> > > >>

> > > >> http://wisdomarchives.blogspot.com

> > > >>

> > > >> Regards,

> > > >> Nitish

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

<sohamsa%

> > 40>,

" J.

> > Weiss "

> > > >> <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Friends,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > According to the information that I could gather

the data

are

> > as

> > > >> followed:

> > > >> >

> > > >> > 26-January-2009

> > > >> > Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby

out)

> > > >> > Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center

> > > >> > Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > As to the divisional charts - see for yourself...

(I guess

2-3

> > of

> > > >> them

> > > >> > will also have the same D60).

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Greetings

> > > >> > /Jay Weiss

> > > >> >

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

OM SHRI RAGHAVENDRA GURUBHYO NAMAH

Dear Sanjay Ji,

Namaste.You mentioned about Chaturpada of Nadiamsha of Lagna.Can you please elaborate on this and tell us how to calculate this Chatur Pada of Nadiamsha ?

Normally I use Kunda,Pranapada in Navamsha of Chandra/Lagna and Tattwa-Antar Tattwa for birth time rectification.

Thanking you,

With Shri Hari Vaayu Guru Naama Smarana,

Ramadas Rao.

On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Sanjay Rath <sjrath wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

Dear Nitish/Jay

Firstly I thank you for accepting the scheme of five levels of D-Charts of Parashara using Aurobindo words to understand the level of consciousness. [You talked of D1 to D12 as physical level or physical consciousness].

 

Secondly, your principle of using D60 in this manner is not correct. The yoga principles you mention are very fine and well accepted but your interpolation of the same in this manner into jyotish is not. Birth or JANMA is the Apana Prana domination where the baby expels the mothers prana and ememrges from the womb. The correct manner of fixing the pranapada should take into account the conception chart (Adhana chakra not Nisheka). D9 trines to Moon of the Pranapada is the process of fixing this event of expulsion of the baby (native) from the mothers womb. In fact the more accurate method would be to map this to the Moon and not have the huge gap or take an approximation. There are issues about the sunrise time and until we have fully sorted those out it is not desirable to make comments that can confuse further.

 

The final timing of birth is based on catur-pada of the naadiamsha of Lagna. That is a very fine time and should suffice. Nitish, D60 is a finer supra consciousness level of the D12. It is the past which has karma that maps into the present. It is like a microscopic examination of the 12th house and its calculation is exactly the same as the D12 also.

 

Nitish, can I request you to put your focus on this Naadiamsha and see if you can come up with something about pranapada. I was taught that a human being is born every 54 seconds apart! That is the real truth to praanapada, so we need to find out how to get this from the chart. Also please check the relevance of janma vighatika graha to pranapada.

 

With Warm Regards

Sanjay Rath

http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

 

 

 

sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Jay Weiss

29 January 2009 13:24sohamsa Subject: Re: Re: Birth data of the 8 babies born in L.A.

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Nitish,

 

 

 

Your mail took me by surprised, honestly.

 

 

 

Firstly your black & white view of Jyotish principles " ... are correct or not " . In such a case you can (in my opinion) scrap the entire Jyotish principles as we all know that SOME principles work for SOME, others don't BUT not all principles work for all.

 

 

The reason is very simple: UNKNOWN FACTORS! (as in all fields of science).

 

We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

 

 

 

Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool can bring forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't. There is no other way to make progress in any field of science.

 

 

 

As for the 'originator' of the Pranapada in D-9 I can only refer to a very old mail (on record) written by Sri Sanjay Rath (I think it was back in 2001 or 2002) with an explanation on it's calculation and usage. Where he got it from I am not sure but it has been used by many ever since.

 

 

 

 

What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-60 for Pranapada ?

 

 

 

Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the beholder " i.e. PERCEPTION.

 

So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

 

What is 'true' for some is not for others. The word fact (something which can be proven) is probably more in place.

 

.... especially in astrology!

 

 

 

Best regards

 

/Jay Weiss

 

 

 

 

 

2009/1/29 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

 

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||Dear Jay, Sanjay,

Jyotish is a Vedic science, and it doesn't run on Statistics. Either a Jyotish principle is correct or it is not. How can one be born surely by statistically un-reliable principles? The PRANA-pada

rule for D-9 is grossly incorrect and a misconception of whoever originated it - read on for the illustration.One cannot understand the PRANA-pada in Jyotish, unless one knows how PRANA functions in body.

PRANA in body is divided into 5 specialized forces operating in 5 chakras. Each of these chakras has a gross and a subtle PRANA associated with it, thus making for 10 distinct bodily PRANA (dash mahavidya). The respective gross/subtle pranas are: " Udana/

Devadatta " , " Prana/Naga " , " Samana/Krikal " , " Vyana/Dhananjaya " and " Apana/Kurma " . Which planets rule which prana, anybody ?These five principle and subtle PRANA together take care of all the

bodily functions, while the cosmic PRANA in the 6th/agya chakra takes one to the realm of omnipresence and omniscience.When a baby is born, he is not breathing because mothers' bodily PRANA was taking care of all the necessary functions for the baby.

So, he has to start breathing, which means coupled inhalation and exhalation that are driven by opposing forces of " Prana " and " Apana " respectively.Birth, marked by presence of breath, happens when the process of

breathing is initiated by the combined action of Prana in Agya (Ham) and Vishuddhi (SaH) chakras. " Udana " being associated with Vishuddhi chakra, breath, and with the ether elementary vibration, is therefore

the gross bodily prana for the plane of D-60. Now, Moon rules Udana and Sun rules Devadatta. Thus, [YOGAS' RULE FOR BIRTH]For a baby to be born with Breath, the PRANA-pada lagna should be in trines/7th to Moon/Sun in D-60.

For an ordinary person, at death, his astral body is taken to the astral realms by the action of outgoing breath or " Apana " . Therefore, only after one masters the breath by yogic practices (i.e. controls

prana in Agya and Vishuddhi chakras), can he leave his body at will, and not be thrown out of it like a mortal.The physical plane D-1 to D-12 is ruled by " Apana " . For a living and breathing person, force of " Prana " is always stronger than the

force of " Apana " . Since a weaker force cannot drive a stronger force, there is no way a baby could start breathing by the action of " Apana " . " Apana " could be useful only for elimination of baby from

mothers' body, or it should be held responsible for balancing out the equation with " Prana " to give sensory experiences.This is the only correct version of the principle of birth in line with the Yogic understanding of PRANA. I have illustrated the

required for the benefit of Jyotish community, and with a hope that this will inspire them to make an effort to seek and realize the truth as well as to question everything that is being presented as truth.

Now, applying this principle, in the case of 8 babies, we should look at the time given by the 28 (7+7+7+7) out of 50 shastyamsas for the birth of the babies. Regards,Nitish

 

sohamsa , Jay Weiss <weissjay wrote:>> Dear Nitish,

 

> I am well aware of the Pranapada rule and use it daily as well.> However, as I mentioned earlier the average of 5/8 (37 sec.) makes it very> interesting here 'IF' (1) two babies were born within this time

frame (2)> some will have the Pranapada NOT in trines.> > Certainly an interesting issue/case for validation, something that I always> advocated under the cover name of 'Statistics'.

> > Best regards> /Jay Weiss> > >

> 2009/1/28 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

 

 

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||> > Dear Jay, Sanjay,> >> > Long time ago, I had read a rule by Pt. Sanjay Rath about using> > pranapada lagna for birth time rectification. See link:

> > http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic astrology-jyotisha/341103-> > pranapada-rectification-srs-dialogues-zoran.html

> >> > Here is the relevant text from the link:> >> > " ....Check# Not deviating from the point, see the navamsa position of> > the Pranapada and that of the Lagna or Moon. These must be in

trines/> > seventh house. In the above example, the Pranapada is in Virgo 9Deg> > 49 Min or Pisces navamsa and the Moon is also in Pisces navamsa as> > he Lagna is in Scorpio Navamsa. Thus both lagna and Lunar checks

> > work. Some authors try to apply these checks in the Rasi chart and> > often get very inaccurate results and have to shift the time by many> > hours to achieve the result!! Please keep this to yourself as it

will> > be appearing in my next book onbirth time rectification.... " > >> > The Navamsa lagna (Ta) and Navamsa Moon (Ge) don't change sign> > from 10:43 to 10:48.> > Now, given that 8 babies were born in 5 minutes, and that

> > pranapada lagna moves a navamsa in every 40 seconds, In 5 minutes,> > the pranapada lagna will move continuously from Ge to Cp navamsa,> > with reference to static reference points of Navamsa Lagna and

Moon.> > This rule implies that a baby will not be born for some 80 seconds> > i.e. when PP goes to Cn and Le (from 10:43:31 - 10:44:51), none of> > which are in trines/7th from lagna/Moon. Thus, we cannot have

Baby B> > being really born. Also, this will imply a loss of 2 out of our 7> > unique slots in the D60,D45,D40 idea leaving us with only 5 distinct> > sets. Thus, implying that 7 babies have to be put closely

together in> > 10:45 - 10:48 and with 4 unique slots.> >> > Clearly, this needs to be explored precisely with additional data> > as it can tell us important information about the VALIDITY of this

> > birth-time rectification rule.> >> > I think this rule could only be validly applied in D-60 and not in> > D-9, as we will get 27 (4+8+7+8) out of 50 shastyamsa in 5 minutes> > that satisfy this condition. And these are ample to allow for 8

> > babies to be born. May be if we employ another conditional constraint> > on Pranapada in D-40 and D-45 (17-19 slots each), and find the> > overlaps with D-60 (27 slots), we could get even better with the

> > correctness of birth time. Finding out these correct slots could be> > taken as an exercise by somebody in the list.> >> > Regards,> > Nitish

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>,

 

 

Krishnamurthy> > Seetharama> > <kmurthys58@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Jay,> > >> > > According to one of the reports on the net, following were the

> > recorded> > > times:> > >> > > A - 10:43> > > B - 10:44> > > C - 10:45> > > D - 10:45> > > E - 10:46> > > F - 10:47

> > > G - 10:48> > >> > > But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.> > >> > > Regards,> > > Krishna> > >> > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss <weissjay@> wrote:

> > >> > > > Dear Nitish,> > > > Very well said, no argument about the times that you mention.> > > > However, the main issue here remains unknown (so far), which

is> > " Who was> > > > delivered when " .> > > > 8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds between each> > of> > > > them...> > > > .... and here is where I place my question mark.

> > > > I will try to get the exact details if possible AND if they were> > recorded> > > > (I guess they were so busy in the delivery room ...).> > > >> > > > Regards

> > > > /Jay Weiss> > > >> > > >> > > > 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@>> >> > > >> > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > >> Dear Jay,> > > >> What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as there is a reason> > to> > > >> differentiate?> > > >> In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to 22deg Pi

(i.e. 50> > > >> shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't it like> > hearing a> > > >> music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event emphasizes the

> > > >> importance of prana-pada.> > > >> Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada, there is a> > reason> > > >> to differentiate just by combining the three important

> > divisionals> > > >> representative of karmic pattern being derived from matrilineal,> > > >> patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40, D-45 and D-60

> > > >> resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:> > > >> D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi> > > >> D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg> > > >> D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

> > > >> -----------------------------> > > >> Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 = 10. However,> > some> > > >> of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

> > > >>> > > >> E.g. Look at some of these changes> > > >> 10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi> > > >> 10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li

> > > >> -------------------------> > > >> 10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 ---> Li and D-40 ---> Vi> > > >> 10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 ---> Li

> > > >> 10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc> > > >> 10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq> > > >> 10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc> > > >> 10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

> > > >> 10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi> > > >> -------------------------> > > >> Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5 minutes, and

> > therefore> > > >> only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising in these three> > > >> charts taken together. This implies that differentiation needs> > to be

> > > >> made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in D-60+D-45+D-40 in the> > same> > > >> way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120 distinct changes. This> > > >> number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct

individuals to> > be> > > >> born at the same place in a given interval. It will also prove> > to be> > > >> a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind of higher

> > > >> knowledge - just in the same way that all those things that> > limit us> > > >> do upon transgression.> > > >>> > > >> So, unless we are willing to accept that physical vehicle is

all> > > >> there is in the karmic unfoldment of an individual, we must be> > open> > > >> to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma vehicle behind it> > as

> > > >> the driving force in determining ones' karmic destiny. In a way,> > this> > > >> proves the failure of purely physical karmic astrological basis,> > > >> which is a good point to start enquiry into nature of Prana-

pada.> > > >>> > > >> Any comments to explore this further are appreciated. If we have> > a> > > >> good discussion on this topic, i will put this up as a post

on my> > > >> blog.> > > >>> > > >> http://wisdomarchives.blogspot.com> > > >>

> > > >> Regards,> > > >> Nitish> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

<sohamsa%> > 40>, " J.> > Weiss " > > > >> <weissjay@> wrote:> > > >> >

> > > >> > Friends,> > > >> >> > > >> > According to the information that I could gather the data are> > as> > > >> followed:

> > > >> >> > > >> > 26-January-2009> > > >> > Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th baby out)> > > >> > Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center

> > > >> > Los Angeles, Ca. USA.> > > >> >> > > >> > As to the divisional charts - see for yourself... (I guess 2-3> > of> > > >> them

> > > >> > will also have the same D60).> > > >> >> > > >> > Greetings> > > >> > /Jay Weiss> > > >> >> > > >>

> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >>

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

Dear Nitish

Comments below yours -

With Warm Regards

Sanjay Rath

http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

 

 

 

 

sohamsa

[sohamsa ] On Behalf Of yeeahoo_99

01 February 2009 17:13

sohamsa

Re: Birth data of the 8 babies born in L.A.

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Sanjay, Jay,

 

The principle of using D-60 is correct - this mail completes all I

have to illustrate in this regard. Emergence of baby is a necessary

but not sufficient condition for birth because he needn't breath

after emergence. " Breath " is the primary and only cause for the

expression of consciousness that we call as Birth in human body.

[sanjay Rath:] That also is not sufficient

t define the independent existence of the baby as the baby is still a part of

the mothers body. So there is something more than just breathing as every organ

of the body of the mother breathes as the mother breathes. The cutting of the

umbilicus has been taken as the moment of independent existence of the being.

> Nitish, can I request you to put your

focus on this Naadiamsha and

see if

> you can come up with something about pranapada. I was taught that a

human

> being is born every 54 seconds apart! That is the real truth to

praanapada,

> so we need to find out how to get this from the chart. Also please

check the

> relevance of janma vighatika graha to pranapada.

 

I have already moved forward along the way of Yoga, and it would

n't be right on my part not to put all my efforts in this direction.

If, by grace of God, I receive any knowledge about Naadiamsha along

the way, I would be most glad to share it.

 

It is not possible for 8 babies to be born in 5 minutes, with 54

seconds Gap between successive births. So, it is conclusively

invalid. As I have already shown previously, that the Pranapada in D-

9 has large gaps of upto 80 seconds, it is not useful either.

[sanjay Rath:] No no you did not get that

right. The Janma vighatika graha changes every 24 seconds as the vighati

changes. So a different being can be born *technically* every 24 seconds. So,

in 5 minutes, there are 300 seconds which can give 12.5 or 13 births.Of these

13 births, those that shall be manushya yoni in both present and past

existences can be up to 5.555 or say 6 births (300 sec/54).

So if in that hospital there were 8

babies, then at least 2 of them were not manushya in the past life.

 

Relationship to breath as reflected in use of D-60 takes this

restriction to as little as 6 seconds Gap, which is reasonable for

the 8 babies case.

 

Due to inherent duality in nature, a second principle is called in.

In yoga, 5th chakra is linked to 2nd chakra by duality, so we use D-

24 chart as the highest harmonic in this plane with a least count of

15 seconds Gap.

[sanjay Rath:] You are using D24 for

Pranapada!

 

Now, in human body,

Mercury rules Vyana, (Shodashi)

Venus rules Dhananjaya, (Kamala)

Sun rules Devadatta, (Matangi)

Moon rules Udana (Bhuvaneshvari)

 

In essence:

1.We need to check if Pranapada is trines/7th to Mo/Su in D-60 chart

(6 seconds).

2.We need to check if Pranapada is trines/7th to Me/Ve in D-24 chart

(15 seconds).

[sanjay Rath:] No no this is not correct.

From where do you get the use of Pranapada in trines to Sun?? This is going

against the principle of the very calculation of pranapada in horoscopy.

 

These two together can be used to fix the valid ranges for human

birth. But they do not pinpoint which one of the multiple valid

ranges within a D-60 lagna duration (105 sec) is to be considered

authentic.

I think that this method coupled with Kunda correction, will give

a correct result. I haven't tried it on the 8 babies case though.

[sanjay Rath:] Kunda correction is done

essentially for Prashna and also for birth chart if one does not have the time

for Nadi amsha study.

 

 

Regards,

Nitish

 

sohamsa ,

" Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

>

> Dear Nitish/Jay

>

> Firstly I thank you for accepting the scheme of five levels of D-

Charts of

> Parashara using Aurobindo words to understand the level of

consciousness.

> [You talked of D1 to D12 as physical level or physical

consciousness].

>

>

>

> Secondly, your principle of using D60 in this manner is not

correct. The

> yoga principles you mention are very fine and well accepted but your

> interpolation of the same in this manner into jyotish is not. Birth

or JANMA

> is the Apana Prana domination where the baby expels the mothers

prana and

> ememrges from the womb. The correct manner of fixing the pranapada

should

> take into account the conception chart (Adhana chakra not Nisheka).

D9

> trines to Moon of the Pranapada is the process of fixing this event

of

> expulsion of the baby (native) from the mothers womb. In fact the

more

> accurate method would be to map this to the Moon and not have the

huge gap

> or take an approximation. There are issues about the sunrise time

and until

> we have fully sorted those out it is not desirable to make comments

that can

> confuse further.

>

>

>

> The final timing of birth is based on catur-pada of the naadiamsha

of Lagna.

> That is a very fine time and should suffice. Nitish, D60 is a finer

supra

> consciousness level of the D12. It is the past which has karma that

maps

> into the present. It is like a microscopic examination of the 12th

house and

> its calculation is exactly the same as the D12 also.

>

>

>

> Nitish, can I request you to put your focus on this Naadiamsha and

see if

> you can come up with something about pranapada. I was taught that a

human

> being is born every 54 seconds apart! That is the real truth to

praanapada,

> so we need to find out how to get this from the chart. Also please

check the

> relevance of janma vighatika graha to pranapada.

>

>

>

> With Warm Regards

>

> Sanjay Rath

>

> http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

>

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

>

>

>

> sohamsa

[sohamsa ]

On

Behalf Of

> Jay Weiss

> 29 January 2009 13:24

> sohamsa

> Re: Re: Birth data of the 8 babies born in L.A.

>

>

>

> Dear Nitish,

>

>

>

> Your mail took me by surprised, honestly.

>

>

>

> Firstly your black & white view of Jyotish principles " ... are

correct or

> not " . In such a case you can (in my opinion) scrap the entire

Jyotish

> principles as we all know that SOME principles work for SOME,

others don't

> BUT not all principles work for all.

>

> The reason is very simple: UNKNOWN FACTORS! (as in all fields of

science).

>

> We humans are NOT meant to know everything!

>

>

>

> Therefore the use of SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS as a testing tool can

bring

> forward WHICH roles work for what charts and which don't. There is

no other

> way to make progress in any field of science.

>

>

>

> As for the 'originator' of the Pranapada in D-9 I can only refer to

a very

> old mail (on record) written by Sri Sanjay Rath (I think it was

back in 2001

> or 2002) with an explanation on it's calculation and usage. Where

he got it

> from I am not sure but it has been used by many ever since.

>

>

>

> What is YOUR source of using the very birth time sensitive D-60 for

> Pranapada ?

>

>

>

> Last but not least: " The truth is only in the eyes of the

beholder "

i.e.

> PERCEPTION.

>

> So there is nothing called 'truth' in the world of Maya.

>

> What is 'true' for some is not for others. The word fact (something

which

> can be proven) is probably more in place.

>

> ... especially in astrology!

>

>

>

> Best regards

>

> /Jay Weiss

>

>

>

>

>

> 2009/1/29 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya

>

> || OM TAT SAT ||

> Dear Jay, Sanjay,

>

> Jyotish is a Vedic science, and it doesn't run on Statistics.

> Either a Jyotish principle is correct or it is not. How can one be

> born surely by statistically un-reliable principles? The PRANA-pada

> rule for D-9 is grossly incorrect and a misconception of whoever

> originated it - read on for the illustration.

>

> One cannot understand the PRANA-pada in Jyotish, unless one knows

> how PRANA functions in body.

>

> PRANA in body is divided into 5 specialized forces operating in 5

> chakras. Each of these chakras has a gross and a subtle PRANA

> associated with it, thus making for 10 distinct bodily PRANA (dash

> mahavidya). The respective gross/subtle pranas are: " Udana/

> Devadatta " , " Prana/Naga " , " Samana/Krikal " ,

" Vyana/Dhananjaya " and

> " Apana/Kurma " . Which planets rule which prana, anybody ?

>

> These five principle and subtle PRANA together take care of all the

> bodily functions, while the cosmic PRANA in the 6th/agya chakra

takes

> one to the realm of omnipresence and omniscience.

>

> When a baby is born, he is not breathing because mothers' bodily

> PRANA was taking care of all the necessary functions for the baby.

> So, he has to start breathing, which means coupled inhalation and

> exhalation that are driven by opposing forces of " Prana " and

" Apana "

> respectively.

>

> Birth, marked by presence of breath, happens when the process of

> breathing is initiated by the combined action of Prana in Agya

(Ham)

> and Vishuddhi (SaH) chakras. " Udana " being associated with

Vishuddhi

> chakra, breath, and with the ether elementary vibration, is

therefore

> the gross bodily prana for the plane of D-60. Now, Moon rules Udana

> and Sun rules Devadatta. Thus,

>

> [YOGAS' RULE FOR BIRTH]

> For a baby to be born with Breath, the PRANA-pada lagna should be

in

> trines/7th to Moon/Sun in D-60.

>

> For an ordinary person, at death, his astral body is taken to the

> astral realms by the action of outgoing breath or " Apana " .

Therefore,

> only after one masters the breath by yogic practices (i.e. controls

> prana in Agya and Vishuddhi chakras), can he leave his body at

will,

> and not be thrown out of it like a mortal.

>

> The physical plane D-1 to D-12 is ruled by " Apana " . For a living

 

> and breathing person, force of " Prana " is always stronger than

the

> force of " Apana " . Since a weaker force cannot drive a stronger

> force, there is no way a baby could start breathing by the action

of

> " Apana " . " Apana " could be useful only for elimination

of baby from

> mothers' body, or it should be held responsible for balancing out

the

> equation with " Prana " to give sensory experiences.

>

> This is the only correct version of the principle of birth in line

> with the Yogic understanding of PRANA. I have illustrated the

> required for the benefit of Jyotish community, and with a hope that

> this will inspire them to make an effort to seek and realize the

> truth as well as to question everything that is being presented as

> truth.

>

> Now, applying this principle, in the case of 8 babies, we should

> look at the time given by the 28 (7+7+7+7) out of 50 shastyamsas

for

> the birth of the babies.

>

> Regards,

> Nitish

>

>

>

> sohamsa

<sohamsa%40> ,

Jay

> Weiss <weissjay@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Nitish,

>

> > I am well aware of the Pranapada rule and use it daily as well.

> > However, as I mentioned earlier the average of 5/8 (37 sec.)

makes

> it very

> > interesting here 'IF' (1) two babies were born within this time

> frame (2)

> > some will have the Pranapada NOT in trines.

> >

> > Certainly an interesting issue/case for validation, something

that

> I always

> > advocated under the cover name of 'Statistics'.

> >

> > Best regards

> > /Jay Weiss

> >

> >

> >

>

> > 2009/1/28 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@>

>

>

> >

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > Dear Jay, Sanjay,

> > >

> > > Long time ago, I had read a rule by Pt. Sanjay Rath about using

> > > pranapada lagna for birth time rectification. See link:

> > > http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic astrology-jyotisha/

> 341103-

> > > pranapada-rectification-srs-dialogues-zoran.html

> > >

> > > Here is the relevant text from the link:

> > >

> > > " ....Check# Not deviating from the point, see the navamsa

> position of

> > > the Pranapada and that of the Lagna or Moon. These must be in

> trines/

> > > seventh house. In the above example, the Pranapada is in Virgo

> 9Deg

> > > 49 Min or Pisces navamsa and the Moon is also in Pisces navamsa

as

> > > he Lagna is in Scorpio Navamsa. Thus both lagna and Lunar checks

> > > work. Some authors try to apply these checks in the Rasi chart

and

> > > often get very inaccurate results and have to shift the time by

> many

> > > hours to achieve the result!! Please keep this to yourself as

it

> will

> > > be appearing in my next book onbirth time rectification.... "

> > >

> > > The Navamsa lagna (Ta) and Navamsa Moon (Ge) don't change sign

> > > from 10:43 to 10:48.

> > > Now, given that 8 babies were born in 5 minutes, and that

> > > pranapada lagna moves a navamsa in every 40 seconds, In 5

minutes,

> > > the pranapada lagna will move continuously from Ge to Cp

navamsa,

> > > with reference to static reference points of Navamsa Lagna and

> Moon.

> > > This rule implies that a baby will not be born for some 80

seconds

> > > i.e. when PP goes to Cn and Le (from 10:43:31 - 10:44:51), none

of

> > > which are in trines/7th from lagna/Moon. Thus, we cannot have

> Baby B

> > > being really born. Also, this will imply a loss of 2 out of our

7

> > > unique slots in the D60,D45,D40 idea leaving us with only 5

> distinct

> > > sets. Thus, implying that 7 babies have to be put closely

> together in

> > > 10:45 - 10:48 and with 4 unique slots.

> > >

> > > Clearly, this needs to be explored precisely with additional

data

> > > as it can tell us important information about the VALIDITY of

this

> > > birth-time rectification rule.

> > >

> > > I think this rule could only be validly applied in D-60 and not

in

> > > D-9, as we will get 27 (4+8+7+8) out of 50 shastyamsa in 5

minutes

> > > that satisfy this condition. And these are ample to allow for 8

> > > babies to be born. May be if we employ another conditional

> constraint

> > > on Pranapada in D-40 and D-45 (17-19 slots each), and find the

> > > overlaps with D-60 (27 slots), we could get even better with the

> > > correctness of birth time. Finding out these correct slots

could

> be

> > > taken as an exercise by somebody in the list.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Nitish

>

> > > sohamsa

 

<sohamsa%40>

> <sohamsa%40>,

>

> Krishnamurthy

> > > Seetharama

> > > <kmurthys58@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Jay,

> > > >

> > > > According to one of the reports on the net, following were

the

> > > recorded

> > > > times:

> > > >

> > > > A - 10:43

> > > > B - 10:44

> > > > C - 10:45

> > > > D - 10:45

> > > > E - 10:46

> > > > F - 10:47

> > > > G - 10:48

> > > >

> > > > But, I guess we need more accuracy than that.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Krishna

> > > >

> > > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Jay Weiss

<weissjay@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > Very well said, no argument about the times that you

mention.

> > > > > However, the main issue here remains unknown (so far),

 

which

> is

> > > " Who was

> > > > > delivered when " .

> > > > > 8 babies in 5 minutes are an average of 37.5 seconds

between

> each

> > > of

> > > > > them...

> > > > > .... and here is where I place my question mark.

> > > > > I will try to get the exact details if possible AND if

they

> were

> > > recorded

> > > > > (I guess they were so busy in the delivery room ...).

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > /Jay Weiss

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 2009/1/27 yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@>

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > >> Dear Jay,

> > > > >> What cannot be explained in NATURE as long as

there is a

> reason

> > > to

> > > > >> differentiate?

> > > > >> In 5 minutes, pranapada moved from 27deg Aq to

22deg Pi

> (i.e. 50

> > > > >> shastyamsa) and lagna moved by 4 shastyamsa. Isn't

it like

> > > hearing a

> > > > >> music with 50 distinct notes ? In fact, this event

 

> emphasizes the

> > > > >> importance of prana-pada.

> > > > >> Therefore, without jumping directly to pranapada,

there is

a

> > > reason

> > > > >> to differentiate just by combining the three

important

> > > divisionals

> > > > >> representative of karmic pattern being derived

from

> matrilineal,

> > > > >> patrilineal, and ones' past birth karma i.e. D-40,

D-45

and

> D-60

> > > > >> resp. So, in 5 minutes these change as follows:

> > > > >> D-60 --> 4 signs --> From Sg to Pi

> > > > >> D-45 --> 3 signs --> From Li to Sg

> > > > >> D-40 --> 3 signs --> From Vi to Sc

> > > > >> -----------------------------

> > > > >> Total distinct changes should be therefore 4+3+3 =

10.

> However,

> > > some

> > > > >> of these changes may coincide at seconds accuracy.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> E.g. Look at some of these changes

> > > > >> 10:41:58 --> D-40 ---> Vi

> > > > >> 10:42:40 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 --->

Li

> > > > >> -------------------------

> > > > >> 10:43:00 --> D-60 ---> Sg and D-45 --->

Li and D-40 ---> Vi

> > > > >> 10:44:04 --> D-60 ---> Cp and D-40 --->

Li

> > > > >> 10:44:32 --> D-45 ---> Sc

> > > > >> 10:45:28 --> D-60 ---> Aq

> > > > >> 10:46:10 --> D-40 ---> Sc

> > > > >> 10:46:24 --> D-45 ---> Sg

> > > > >> 10:46:52 --> D-60 ---> Pi

> > > > >> -------------------------

> > > > >> Now, these are only 6 distinct changes in 5

minutes, and

> > > therefore

> > > > >> only 7 possible combinations of ascendants rising

in these

> three

> > > > >> charts taken together. This implies that

differentiation

> needs

> > > to be

> > > > >> made at the level of Prana-Pada lagna in

D-60+D-45+D-40 in

> the

> > > same

> > > > >> way, which can have less than 50+37+33=120

distinct

changes.

> This

> > > > >> number will equate to the maximum no. of distinct

> individuals to

> > > be

> > > > >> born at the same place in a given interval. It

will also

> prove

> > > to be

> > > > >> a threshold - to be crossed - for acquiring a kind

of

higher

> > > > >> knowledge - just in the same way that all those

things that

> > > limit us

> > > > >> do upon transgression.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> So, unless we are willing to accept that physical

vehicle

is

> all

> > > > >> there is in the karmic unfoldment of an

individual, we

must

> be

> > > open

> > > > >> to understand the importance of Prana/sukshma

vehicle

behind

> it

> > > as

> > > > >> the driving force in determining ones' karmic

destiny. In

a

> way,

> > > this

> > > > >> proves the failure of purely physical karmic

astrological

> basis,

> > > > >> which is a good point to start enquiry into nature

of

Prana-

> pada.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Any comments to explore this further are

appreciated. If

we

> have

> > > a

> > > > >> good discussion on this topic, i will put this up

as a

post

> on my

> > > > >> blog.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> http://wisdomarchives.blogspot.com

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Regards,

> > > > >> Nitish

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >> sohamsa

 

<sohamsa%40>

> <sohamsa%40>

> <sohamsa%

> > > 40>, " J.

> > > Weiss "

> > > > >> <weissjay@> wrote:

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Friends,

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > According to the information that I could

gather the

data

> are

> > > as

> > > > >> followed:

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > 26-January-2009

> > > > >> > Time: between 10:43 a.m. to 10:48 a.m (8th

baby out)

> > > > >> > Place: Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical

Center

> > > > >> > Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > As to the divisional charts - see for

yourself... (I

guess

> 2-3

> > > of

> > > > >> them

> > > > >> > will also have the same D60).

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Greetings

> > > > >> > /Jay Weiss

> > > > >> >

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>