[Jagannath] Transcript of ISKCON Reading part 3

[Guest guest]

At 8. 4. 2000 12:46:00, you wrote:

>>>The final installment of Pandit Sanjay's Reading on ISKCON

>>>Part 3

>>><:><:><:><:>:<:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:>

>>>

>>>Why am I not having a doubt about Krishna? Because He is pure, He Himself is

>>>completely pure.

>>>

>>>There is a particular time when Gajaraja, the elephant king went to drink

>>>water and a powerful crocodile caught his legs. Gaja means elephant, raja

>>>means king. The crocodile is makara. Makara means Capricorn. Gajaraj means

>>>Jupiter, the elephant king. Gajaraja, Jupiter fought and struggled with the

>>>crocodile too much. He tried to come out, but the crocodile was not leaving

>>>him. The crocodile was in the water, his own place. Sani is in Makara.

>>>

>>>It is the debility of Jupiter that troubles the leaders of ISKCON. If you

>>>see the dashamsha D-10 the Jupiter is troubled in the 10th house of leaders,

>>>and Sani has caught hold of Gajaraja. That is why the leaders, the gurus,

>>>the good leaders, real gurus, they are really in trouble. These gurus are

>>>real tapasvis, in the house of Sani.

>>>

>>>ISKCON is very fortunate it has some of the best tapasvis. When this period

>>>or sub period of Sani comes the crocodile will catch the Gurus.

>>>

>>>When is the period of Sani? From August 99 to March 2001. During this period

>>>the Gurus will be in distress, they will want to go away. Another period

>>>sometime between 92-93, there would have been problems. The crocodile will

>>>catch some of the Gurus. Between 92 and 93 also there would have been

>>>problems. Look back!

>>>

>>

>

>Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

>Jay Radhe,

>

>What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999. As far as I

remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

>Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a main figure

>in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in the field of

book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

>of leaving.

>

>I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON during July

1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for Purity

>where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not tolerate

that and than it switched in my head and then I started to search for my guru

>outside of ISKCON.

><http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya Matha.

>

 

Also among the guru's are like the most are three: SidhhaSwarupananda

Paramahamsa, Tripurari Maharaja and Bhaktivaibhava Puri Maharaja.

And Srila Puri Maharaja was also forbiddeen in ISKCON during the Moon-Jup

period. Here are few excerpts from official GBC 1999 resolutions

you can download from their official web site:

<http://swami.simplenet.com/gbc/download/res1999.zip>

 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

609. [ACTION ORDER] ANANTA DASA

Whereas there have been various transgressions of ISKCON law by the president of

ISKCON Rome,

 

It is hereby resolved THAT:

A. Ananta Das is put under probation for an indefinite period of time with the

following terms:

 

1. He shall write a letter of apology to the GBC Body and ISKCON devotees for A)

Having held istagosthis for the purpose of creating a consensus to abrogate

ISKCON laws on initiation outside of ISKCON. B) Introducing a principle of

" attraction " on an absolute platform for a guru, that supersedes the necessity

for the

devotees to follow GBC laws and orders. C) Having mistreated and intimidated

devotees during both istagosthis and conversations. D) Having failed to follow

the

orders of the GBC executive committee. E) Having offended and obscured the

position of the GBC Body and ISKCON gurus both by organizing the distribution

papers critical of ISKCON authorities to all devotees and guests in the Rome

area and by allowing and nurturing an atmosphere of mistrust within the temple.

 

This letter has to be reviewed and approved by the GBCs of Italy.

 

2. He shall remove from the legal structure of the local society and the temple

council all Puri Maharaja's initiated disciples and put in their place persons

who are

accepted by the Italian National Council and the local GBC.

 

3. He will sign a written document stating that he has no personal claims

whatsoever for the service rendered and that he will accept the decision of the

GBC

Body on his conduct and the measures that they may take to correct him. He must

also promise not to participate in any way in activities against ISKCON of any

nature, including legal.

 

4. He will accept one co-president who will be chosen by the GBCs and Italian

National Council.

 

5. He will cooperate in any way that is deemed necessary by the local GBCs and

ISKCON Confederation in legal documents.

 

6. He will follow ISKCON Law 7.2.4. (passed in 1993) and in addition will not

allow any new persons to come and stay in the temple if such person has any kind

of

interest or loyalty to the Gaudiya Math institution.

 

7. He will make sure that no functions or reception will be offered to the

Gaudiya Math personalities and that no temple devotees other than those already

initiated

by Sripad Puri Maharaja will visit or participate in any way in functions held

elsewhere.

 

8. He will make public or cause to made public the names of all initiated

disciples of Puri Maharaja in the Rome.

 

 

A monitoring group will be formed by the Italian National Council and the GBC

that will inform the GBC Executive Committee of the developments in the Rome

area. If Ananta Das willfully transgresses any of the above points he will be

removed from his position by the Executive Committee, asked to leave ISKCON and

join his Spiritual Master's institution.

 

Points 1-6 are to be executed before the 14th of March.

 

The following Rome devotees will be exempted from having to follow ISKCON Law

7.2.4.1. (which calls for explusion of those who violate 7.2.4) for an amount of

time equal to that of Ananta Das's probation period. At the end of this period

they will be restored in their position as ISKCON devotees:

 

Damdara Priya dasi

Krsna Premavati devi dasi

Mahapursha dasa

Dama dasa

Hari Priya devi dasi

 

The GBC Body guarantees that if all the above guidelines are followed by Ananta

Das and the others involved there will not be any further action by the GBC

Body to remove them from position and service, and that they will be restored in

their condition in all respect, and the local ISKCON society will receive a

written

document allowing it to use the Rome property as long as the other local

societies in Italy will use their respective properties.

 

B. The GBC Body shall send a letter to Sripad Puri Maharaja explaining its

actions.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

>Yours sisya,

>

>Zavisa

>

>

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[Guest guest]

At 9. 4. 2000 3:54:00, you wrote:

>OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

>

>Dear Zavisa,

> A good Jyotisha is always compassionate and most tolerant of all. These

>are vaishnava traits. The leaving cannot be triggered by Jupiter as it is

>the Lord of Lagna of ISKCON. Check the antardasa to confirm the period of

>his leaving.

>

 

Jay Radhe,

 

OK. Since you asked I've checked Chakra's web page for date's of Harikesha's

problems. Started from August 1998, lasted till the end of year, and next GBC

meeting in Feb(I believe) next year. Antardasa is of Jupiter from April 1998 to

August 1999. So it falls into Jupiter antardasa Moon dasa.

 

 

> Why should the leaving of one person or the other have any influence on

>you? Check your own chart for sensitivity and see the lordship of the Moon.

>If this is negative then you will easily be influenced by the lives of

>others and may react in excess to situations. People come and people go.

>ISKCON is but an organisation, this World is also a bigger organisation of

>His.

 

Answer to this is that you please just read the book The Search for Purity. It

is said that lives of saints inspire us. It is a saint speaking there.

Everybody follows somebody, as much as Iskcon does Prabhupada.

 

yours sisya,

 

Zavisa

>

> Saturn in the fourth is the real bane of ISKCON and they sould do some

>permanenet UPAYA by repairing old temples of Sri Krishna like the one in

>Dwarka or make some effort to repair and maintain the Puri temple. If they

>do this then saturn will be easily pacified as it is in the fourth house and

>in trines to Badhakesh Mercury.

>

>Best Wishes

>Sanjay Rath

>

>>

>> Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

>> Jay Radhe,

>>

>> What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999. As far

>as I remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

>> Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

>Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a main

>figure

>> in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in the

>field of book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

>> of leaving.

>>

>> I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON during

>July 1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for

>Purity

>> where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not

>tolerate that and than it switched in my head and then I started to search

>for my guru

>> outside of ISKCON.

>> <http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

>> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya Matha.

>>

>> Yours sisya,

>>

>> Zavisa

>>

>>

>> ------

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>> HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>------

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>

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Zavisa,

 

I misspelt that word at 4 AM in the morning. It should reas Pratyantara.

As regards following and inspiration, draw inspiration from positive actions

and lessons from negative actions. People going into any organisation are

doing a positive action while leaving the same are doing a negative action.

After all, this whole world is the home of Vasudeva, so we are all like

co-borns being His children.

 

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

 

-

Zavisa Nikac <zavisa.nikac

<varahamihira >

Sunday, April 09, 2000 1001 S Rath

Re: Re: [Jagannath] Transcript of ISKCON Reading part 3

 

 

> At 9. 4. 2000 3:54:00, you wrote:

> >OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

> >

> >Dear Zavisa,

> > A good Jyotisha is always compassionate and most tolerant of all.

These

> >are vaishnava traits. The leaving cannot be triggered by Jupiter as it is

> >the Lord of Lagna of ISKCON. Check the antardasa to confirm the period of

> >his leaving.

> >

>

> Jay Radhe,

>

> OK. Since you asked I've checked Chakra's web page for date's of

Harikesha's problems. Started from August 1998, lasted till the end of year,

and next GBC

> meeting in Feb(I believe) next year. Antardasa is of Jupiter from April

1998 to August 1999. So it falls into Jupiter antardasa Moon dasa.

>

>

> > Why should the leaving of one person or the other have any influence

on

> >you? Check your own chart for sensitivity and see the lordship of the

Moon.

> >If this is negative then you will easily be influenced by the lives of

> >others and may react in excess to situations. People come and people go.

> >ISKCON is but an organisation, this World is also a bigger organisation

of

> >His.

>

> Answer to this is that you please just read the book The Search for

Purity. It is said that lives of saints inspire us. It is a saint speaking

there.

> Everybody follows somebody, as much as Iskcon does Prabhupada.

>

> yours sisya,

>

> Zavisa

> >

> > Saturn in the fourth is the real bane of ISKCON and they sould do

some

> >permanenet UPAYA by repairing old temples of Sri Krishna like the one in

> >Dwarka or make some effort to repair and maintain the Puri temple. If

they

> >do this then saturn will be easily pacified as it is in the fourth house

and

> >in trines to Badhakesh Mercury.

> >

> >Best Wishes

> >Sanjay Rath

> >

> >>

> >> Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

> >> Jay Radhe,

> >>

> >> What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999. As

far

> >as I remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

> >> Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

> >Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a main

> >figure

> >> in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in the

> >field of book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

> >> of leaving.

> >>

> >> I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON during

> >July 1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for

> >Purity

> >> where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not

> >tolerate that and than it switched in my head and then I started to

search

> >for my guru

> >> outside of ISKCON.

> >> <http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

> >> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya Matha.

> >>

> >> Yours sisya,

> >>

> >> Zavisa

> >>

> >>

>

>> ------

> >> Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup

> >> Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.

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> >>

> >> HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >------

> >Get paid for the stuff you know!

> >Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site!

> >http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955233319/

> >------

> >

> >HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> ------

> Get paid for the stuff you know!

> Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site!

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> ------

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> HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 9. 4. 2000 3:54:00, you wrote:

>OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

>

>Dear Zavisa,

> A good Jyotisha is always compassionate and most tolerant of all. These

>are vaishnava traits. The leaving cannot be triggered by Jupiter as it is

>the Lord of Lagna of ISKCON. Check the antardasa to confirm the period of

>his leaving.

>

 

Jay Radhe,

Jai Nitai,

 

I must make some observations. If leaving is looked plainly, that is when person

has left Iskcon, then Jupiter also must come into play. For exmple you

saw that mail about BV Puri MJ. He's got 300 disciples in Italy and some temples

went to him in Jupiter. It happened also in Austria also. Harikesa left in

Jupiter.

 

Then you might say, well maybe they got their resons or decided in some other

antardasa. But then that leaves us wth nothing as then we must

speculate over that and see each particular case and that leaves us not with

this plain statement that whenever there is a period and

somebody leaves it is due to that on his mind. As we, obviously look at

Vimsottari(mind) and antardasa(mind).

But then, could it be trigered by some other dasa?

Lets say person might have thoughts of Jupiter on his mind but was simply due to

others(Narayana dasa) forced to apply these thoughts outside.

It might not be immposible.

So I put this before you for so you can consider.

 

Yours sisya,

 

Zavisa

 

 

 

> Why should the leaving of one person or the other have any influence on

>you? Check your own chart for sensitivity and see the lordship of the Moon.

>If this is negative then you will easily be influenced by the lives of

>others and may react in excess to situations. People come and people go.

>ISKCON is but an organisation, this World is also a bigger organisation of

>His.

>

> Saturn in the fourth is the real bane of ISKCON and they sould do some

>permanenet UPAYA by repairing old temples of Sri Krishna like the one in

>Dwarka or make some effort to repair and maintain the Puri temple. If they

>do this then saturn will be easily pacified as it is in the fourth house and

>in trines to Badhakesh Mercury.

>

>Best Wishes

>Sanjay Rath

>

>>

>> Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

>> Jay Radhe,

>>

>> What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999. As far

>as I remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

>> Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

>Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a main

>figure

>> in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in the

>field of book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

>> of leaving.

>>

>> I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON during

>July 1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for

>Purity

>> where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not

>tolerate that and than it switched in my head and then I started to search

>for my guru

>> outside of ISKCON.

>> <http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

>> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya Matha.

>>

>> Yours sisya,

>>

>> Zavisa

>>

>>

>> ------

>> Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup

>> Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.

>> Install today:

>> http://click./1/2344/4/_/2192/_/955190720/

>> ------

>>

>> HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>------

>Get paid for the stuff you know!

>Get answers for the stuff you don’t. And get $10 to spend on the site!

>http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955233319/

>------

>

>HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 9. 4. 2000 11:10:00, you wrote:

>At 9. 4. 2000 3:54:00, you wrote:

>>OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

>>

>>Dear Zavisa,

>> A good Jyotisha is always compassionate and most tolerant of all. These

>>are vaishnava traits. The leaving cannot be triggered by Jupiter as it is

>>the Lord of Lagna of ISKCON. Check the antardasa to confirm the period of

>>his leaving.

>>

>

>Jay Radhe,

>Jai Nitai,

>

>I must make some observations. If leaving is looked plainly, that is when

person has left Iskcon, then Jupiter also must come into play. For exmple you

>saw that mail about BV Puri MJ. He's got 300 disciples in Italy and some

temples went to him in Jupiter. It happened also in Austria also. Harikesa left

in Jupiter.

>

>Then you might say, well maybe they got their resons or decided in some other

antardasa. But then that leaves us wth nothing as then we must

>speculate over that and see each particular case and that leaves us not with

this plain statement that whenever there is a period and

>somebody leaves it is due to that on his mind. As we, obviously look at

Vimsottari(mind) and antardasa(mind).

>But then, could it be trigered by some other dasa?

>Lets say person might have thoughts of Jupiter on his mind but was simply due

to others(Narayana dasa) forced to apply these thoughts outside.

>It might not be immposible.

>So I put this before you for so you can consider.

>

>Yours sisya,

>

>Zavisa

>

>

>

 

Jay Gurudeva,

 

I have something to add.

Also if person left during the period of Rahu and had these kind of thoghts on

his mind, its not that he could never change. I mean, a person is not a stone.

Especially in spiritual life. Also if person has left in Jupuiter's period it

does not mean that he can not change. These periods tell us only about what was

on

the minds of persons at a particular point in time, when they left(It should

also be confirmed in their charts).

 

Lets take Harikesa. When I was reading his stuff he wrote on VNN and other

formus when he left, it seemed exactly as a hurt Jupiter by others who did not

wish

him well. Looked to me exactly like that. I was in his area for 4 years and 4

months with mostly his disciples around me, and did know something about him.

Hovever then he started speaking some nonsense due to his mental problems. And

now he must have changed because he lives in a 10 room villa and has a lot

of money. Does that mean that he could change, or is it triggered by his chart

and Rahu there.

I mean, things can be caused in many ways and I can not subcribe to one only, on

the cost of others.

 

yours sisya,

 

Zavisa

 

 

>> Why should the leaving of one person or the other have any influence on

>>you? Check your own chart for sensitivity and see the lordship of the Moon.

>>If this is negative then you will easily be influenced by the lives of

>>others and may react in excess to situations. People come and people go.

>>ISKCON is but an organisation, this World is also a bigger organisation of

>>His.

>>

>> Saturn in the fourth is the real bane of ISKCON and they sould do some

>>permanenet UPAYA by repairing old temples of Sri Krishna like the one in

>>Dwarka or make some effort to repair and maintain the Puri temple. If they

>>do this then saturn will be easily pacified as it is in the fourth house and

>>in trines to Badhakesh Mercury.

>>

>>Best Wishes

>>Sanjay Rath

>>

>>>

>>> Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

>>> Jay Radhe,

>>>

>>> What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999. As far

>>as I remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

>>> Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

>>Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a main

>>figure

>>> in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in the

>>field of book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

>>> of leaving.

>>>

>>> I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON during

>>July 1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for

>>Purity

>>> where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not

>>tolerate that and than it switched in my head and then I started to search

>>for my guru

>>> outside of ISKCON.

>>> <http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

>>> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya Matha.

>>>

>>> Yours sisya,

>>>

>>> Zavisa

>>>

>>>

>>> ------

>>> Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup

>>> Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.

>>> Install today:

>>> http://click./1/2344/4/_/2192/_/955190720/

>>> ------

>>>

>>> HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>------

>>Get paid for the stuff you know!

>>Get answers for the stuff you don’t. And get $10 to spend on the site!

>>http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955233319/

>>------

>>

>>HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>------

>Get paid for the stuff you know!

>Get answers for the stuff you don’t. And get $10 to spend on the site!

>http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955271396/

>------

>

>HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Zavisa,

 

That is not the way. Here we are focusing on the organisation and people

coming and going. We are not focusing on the personal chart of the people

who come and go. When we speak of the IRS movement or something like that we

are talking of troubles showing up at ISKCON and not at what is right and

what is wrong.

 

The evil shows up during the periods of Saturn due to some inherent

defects in an organisation and Saturn only tells us it is time for a clean

up and it is time to rethink to plan and conserve. Saturn is the cause of

growth and its focus is on the Upachaya.

 

As far as taking temples and sisya or Parakrama of any kind is

concerned, it is indicative of instability or ill-health of the ISKCON as

the dispositor of the Lagna Lord is in the 8th house. It is likely that the

event may have occured during the pratyantardasa of some planet influencing

this house.

 

In Jyotish try to focus on the events and do not get Judgemental about

what is right and wrong. All that is happening is the wish of Bhagawan and

He alone knows why He is doing all this. As far as ISKCON is concerned, what

is happening is not good for the health of the organisation, but it will

surely result in inner cleansing. Change is the sign of life.

Did you check the pratyantar??

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

 

-

Zavisa Nikac <zavisa.nikac

<varahamihira >

Sunday, April 09, 2000 1630 S Rath

Re: Re: Re: [Jagannath] Transcript of ISKCON Reading part 3

 

 

> At 9. 4. 2000 11:10:00, you wrote:

> >At 9. 4. 2000 3:54:00, you wrote:

> >>OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

> >>

> >>Dear Zavisa,

> >> A good Jyotisha is always compassionate and most tolerant of all.

These

> >>are vaishnava traits. The leaving cannot be triggered by Jupiter as it

is

> >>the Lord of Lagna of ISKCON. Check the antardasa to confirm the period

of

> >>his leaving.

> >>

> >

> >Jay Radhe,

> >Jai Nitai,

> >

> >I must make some observations. If leaving is looked plainly, that is when

person has left Iskcon, then Jupiter also must come into play. For exmple

you

> >saw that mail about BV Puri MJ. He's got 300 disciples in Italy and some

temples went to him in Jupiter. It happened also in Austria also. Harikesa

left in Jupiter.

> >

> >Then you might say, well maybe they got their resons or decided in some

other antardasa. But then that leaves us wth nothing as then we must

> >speculate over that and see each particular case and that leaves us not

with this plain statement that whenever there is a period and

> >somebody leaves it is due to that on his mind. As we, obviously look at

Vimsottari(mind) and antardasa(mind).

> >But then, could it be trigered by some other dasa?

> >Lets say person might have thoughts of Jupiter on his mind but was simply

due to others(Narayana dasa) forced to apply these thoughts outside.

> >It might not be immposible.

> >So I put this before you for so you can consider.

> >

> >Yours sisya,

> >

> >Zavisa

> >

> >

> >

>

> Jay Gurudeva,

>

> I have something to add.

> Also if person left during the period of Rahu and had these kind of

thoghts on his mind, its not that he could never change. I mean, a person is

not a stone.

> Especially in spiritual life. Also if person has left in Jupuiter's period

it does not mean that he can not change. These periods tell us only about

what was on

> the minds of persons at a particular point in time, when they left(It

should also be confirmed in their charts).

>

> Lets take Harikesa. When I was reading his stuff he wrote on VNN and other

formus when he left, it seemed exactly as a hurt Jupiter by others who did

not wish

> him well. Looked to me exactly like that. I was in his area for 4 years

and 4 months with mostly his disciples around me, and did know something

about him.

> Hovever then he started speaking some nonsense due to his mental problems.

And now he must have changed because he lives in a 10 room villa and has a

lot

> of money. Does that mean that he could change, or is it triggered by his

chart and Rahu there.

> I mean, things can be caused in many ways and I can not subcribe to one

only, on the cost of others.

>

> yours sisya,

>

> Zavisa

>

>

> >> Why should the leaving of one person or the other have any influence

on

> >>you? Check your own chart for sensitivity and see the lordship of the

Moon.

> >>If this is negative then you will easily be influenced by the lives of

> >>others and may react in excess to situations. People come and people go.

> >>ISKCON is but an organisation, this World is also a bigger organisation

of

> >>His.

> >>

> >> Saturn in the fourth is the real bane of ISKCON and they sould do

some

> >>permanenet UPAYA by repairing old temples of Sri Krishna like the one in

> >>Dwarka or make some effort to repair and maintain the Puri temple. If

they

> >>do this then saturn will be easily pacified as it is in the fourth house

and

> >>in trines to Badhakesh Mercury.

> >>

> >>Best Wishes

> >>Sanjay Rath

> >>

> >>>

> >>> Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

> >>> Jay Radhe,

> >>>

> >>> What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999. As

far

> >>as I remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

> >>> Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

> >>Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a

main

> >>figure

> >>> in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in the

> >>field of book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

> >>> of leaving.

> >>>

> >>> I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON

during

> >>July 1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for

> >>Purity

> >>> where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not

> >>tolerate that and than it switched in my head and then I started to

search

> >>for my guru

> >>> outside of ISKCON.

> >>> <http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

> >>> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya Matha.

> >>>

> >>> Yours sisya,

> >>>

> >>> Zavisa

> >>>

> >>>

>

>>> ------

> >>> Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup

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> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >>

> >>------

> >>Get paid for the stuff you know!

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> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >------

> >Get paid for the stuff you know!

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>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 9. 4. 2000 3:54:00, you wrote:

>OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

>

>Dear Zavisa,

> A good Jyotisha is always compassionate and most tolerant of all. These

>are vaishnava traits. The leaving cannot be triggered by Jupiter as it is

>the Lord of Lagna of ISKCON. Check the antardasa to confirm the period of

>his leaving.

>

> Why should the leaving of one person or the other have any influence on

>you? Check your own chart for sensitivity and see the lordship of the Moon.

>If this is negative then you will easily be influenced by the lives of

>others and may react in excess to situations. People come and people go.

>ISKCON is but an organisation, this World is also a bigger organisation of

>His.

 

Jay Gurudeva,

 

So what am I to conclude from this Moon info. Moon is said to rule the Puranas,

stories through which spirtual teachings are imparted through examples, or

through lives of saints, of people in general and their interaction with saints

etc... Also it is said that for a talented writer moon should be in trikonas to

Navamsa

lagna influenced by Jupiter, Venus or Mercury. So than those writings

permanently reflect lives of certain people. Moon could convey this.

 

Zavisa

 

 

 

 

>

> Saturn in the fourth is the real bane of ISKCON and they sould do some

>permanenet UPAYA by repairing old temples of Sri Krishna like the one in

>Dwarka or make some effort to repair and maintain the Puri temple. If they

>do this then saturn will be easily pacified as it is in the fourth house and

>in trines to Badhakesh Mercury.

>

>Best Wishes

>Sanjay Rath

>

>>

>> Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

>> Jay Radhe,

>>

>> What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999. As far

>as I remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

>> Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

>Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a main

>figure

>> in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in the

>field of book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

>> of leaving.

>>

>> I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON during

>July 1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for

>Purity

>> where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not

>tolerate that and than it switched in my head and then I started to search

>for my guru

>> outside of ISKCON.

>> <http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

>> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya Matha.

>>

>> Yours sisya,

>>

>> Zavisa

>>

>>

>> ------

>> Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup

>> Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.

>> Install today:

>> http://click./1/2344/4/_/2192/_/955190720/

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>> HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>------

>Get paid for the stuff you know!

>Get answers for the stuff you don’t. And get $10 to spend on the site!

>http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955233319/

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>HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 9. 4. 2000 12:53:00, you wrote:

>Dear Zavisa,

>

> I misspelt that word at 4 AM in the morning. It should reas Pratyantara.

>As regards following and inspiration, draw inspiration from positive actions

>and lessons from negative actions. People going into any organisation are

>doing a positive action while leaving the same are doing a negative action.

>After all, this whole world is the home of Vasudeva, so we are all like

>co-borns being His children.

>

 

Jay Gurudeva,

 

Yes, if I could look at that so simply. Take for example, you are a women and

are raped in a temple. I know a women. Lives in my town. Is then leaving a

positive

or negative? If you find you can not go with some organization due to principles

you percieve are done wrongly is it positive or negative? And if you then start

an

organization with principles you believe in? Lets take Prabhupada when we speak

of Iskcon. Did he acted fundamentaly and stayed in his Guru's institution

Gaudiya Matha after he has percieved things done wrongly in it(we all know which

things he percieved wrongly from his books), because his guru said that his

institution(Gaudiya Matha) would spread throughout the universe or did he start

new organization ISKCON with principles thought by his guru incorporated in it.

He

could have as well stayed in Gaudiya Matha because people were also preaching

there. But he did not. We know for what reasons. And for that reason he

spread his society throughout the world. So I cannot agree with a blanket

statement that leaving is negative and joining is positive. What manifested from

Prabhupada's leaving Gaudiya matha?

Just that somebody left some institution means nothing to me. What is behind

means.

 

yours sisya,

 

Zavisa

 

p.s. So I can draw positive things from leaving also. Prabhupada changed many

things in his Iskcon from Gaudiya Matha standards to make them near to

Westerners as did Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati from previous standards and applied

them to new circumstances. If guru is bonafide he can do that. He then know

what is to be done.

 

My pranams to you again and thank you for pointing this. It makes me rethink

many things.

 

 

 

 

>Best Wishes

>Sanjay Rath

>

>-

>Zavisa Nikac <zavisa.nikac

><varahamihira >

>Sunday, April 09, 2000 1001 S Rath

>Re: Re: [Jagannath] Transcript of ISKCON Reading part 3

>

>

>> At 9. 4. 2000 3:54:00, you wrote:

>> >OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

>> >

>> >Dear Zavisa,

>> > A good Jyotisha is always compassionate and most tolerant of all.

>These

>> >are vaishnava traits. The leaving cannot be triggered by Jupiter as it is

>> >the Lord of Lagna of ISKCON. Check the antardasa to confirm the period of

>> >his leaving.

>> >

>>

>> Jay Radhe,

>>

>> OK. Since you asked I've checked Chakra's web page for date's of

>Harikesha's problems. Started from August 1998, lasted till the end of year,

>and next GBC

>> meeting in Feb(I believe) next year. Antardasa is of Jupiter from April

>1998 to August 1999. So it falls into Jupiter antardasa Moon dasa.

>>

>>

>> > Why should the leaving of one person or the other have any influence

>on

>> >you? Check your own chart for sensitivity and see the lordship of the

>Moon.

>> >If this is negative then you will easily be influenced by the lives of

>> >others and may react in excess to situations. People come and people go.

>> >ISKCON is but an organisation, this World is also a bigger organisation

>of

>> >His.

>>

>> Answer to this is that you please just read the book The Search for

>Purity. It is said that lives of saints inspire us. It is a saint speaking

>there.

>> Everybody follows somebody, as much as Iskcon does Prabhupada.

>>

>> yours sisya,

>>

>> Zavisa

>> >

>> > Saturn in the fourth is the real bane of ISKCON and they sould do

>some

>> >permanenet UPAYA by repairing old temples of Sri Krishna like the one in

>> >Dwarka or make some effort to repair and maintain the Puri temple. If

>they

>> >do this then saturn will be easily pacified as it is in the fourth house

>and

>> >in trines to Badhakesh Mercury.

>> >

>> >Best Wishes

>> >Sanjay Rath

>> >

>> >>

>> >> Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

>> >> Jay Radhe,

>> >>

>> >> What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999. As

>far

>> >as I remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

>> >> Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

>> >Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a main

>> >figure

>> >> in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in the

>> >field of book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

>> >> of leaving.

>> >>

>> >> I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON during

>> >July 1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for

>> >Purity

>> >> where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not

>> >tolerate that and than it switched in my head and then I started to

>search

>> >for my guru

>> >> outside of ISKCON.

>> >> <http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

>> >> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya Matha.

>> >>

>> >> Yours sisya,

>> >>

>> >> Zavisa

>> >>

>> >>

>>

>>> ------

>> >> Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup

>> >> Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.

>> >> Install today:

>> >> http://click./1/2344/4/_/2192/_/955190720/

>>

>>> ------

>> >>

>> >> HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >

>> >

>> >------

>> >Get paid for the stuff you know!

>> >Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site!

>> >http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955233319/

>> >------

>> >

>> >HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>>

>> ------

>> Get paid for the stuff you know!

>> Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site!

>> http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955251051/

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>> HARE RAMA KRISHNA

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>------

>Get paid for the stuff you know!

>Get answers for the stuff you don’t. And get $10 to spend on the site!

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>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jaya Jagannath

Dear Zavisa,

 

Even in the rape case you site, calmly think about what I said. The

organisation that is ISKCON, is an independant body and is independant of

the GBC or all the people and organisations that run its affairs. These

people, GBC, and various sub-committees and institutes work to further

ISKCON's objectives. If they fail, then they suffer and cleansing will come

sooner or later, else the organisation will decay and perish.

 

Now look at the incident of rape. ISKCON did not order it, nor does

ISKCON preach such things. In fact being a spiritually uplifting body, it

detests and discourages such actions. Thus, if the incident did happen, then

the same is negative as far as ISKCON is concerned and the leaving of the

woman devotee is also negative (unfortunate) for ISKCON as it has failed to

show the path for another person and its primary objective of giving

enlightenment is lost.

 

However from the perspective of the person (the woman), the incident was

terrible and her leaving ISKCON if injustice was done is correct and

justified as then she can pursue her life's goals and also save her own self

respect. Thus if we are seeing the horoscope of the lady, then this incident

of rape shall be negative and her having to leave an organisation that she

had joined for Krishna Consciousness is also a negative experience, but the

decision to leave is positive from her horoscope.

 

In fact if I was her Jyotish, I wuld have tried to bring Justice first,

failing which I would have advised her to leave. KRISHNA IS " OM TAT SAT " and

always measure people, situations and decisions with this. The leaving of so

many Guru's during the periods of Saturn is not good for ISKCON. In fact

what really happens is the good ones are disinclined to continue and wish to

leave. Even in the present Saturn antardasa one most senior GBC Guru was

very inclined to leave and after seeing the proof of Jyotish before his

eyes, He has decided to stay back and implement reforms.

 

Zavisa there is a lot of difference in the world view of East & West.

For example, even if I were to lose everything (which has happened in the

past in saturn dasa Ketu antardasa) and were to be in the street, the

thought of dissociating with the Puri Temple is blasphemous. Our breath is

associated with Him. That is the way you should develop your faith towards

one temple and deity and accept all punishment as if it were from Him. Even

if you don't get justice in this life time in a few cases, don't worry

Jyotish has already shown to you how all these factors balance out and sins

can rarely go unpunished. That is why I recommend fasting and repentance for

self cleansing.

 

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

 

 

 

-

Zavisa Nikac <zavisa.nikac

<varahamihira >

Sunday, April 09, 2000 1902 S Rath

Re: Re: Re: [Jagannath] Transcript of ISKCON Reading part 3

 

 

> At 9. 4. 2000 12:53:00, you wrote:

> >Dear Zavisa,

> >

> > I misspelt that word at 4 AM in the morning. It should reas

Pratyantara.

> >As regards following and inspiration, draw inspiration from positive

actions

> >and lessons from negative actions. People going into any organisation are

> >doing a positive action while leaving the same are doing a negative

action.

> >After all, this whole world is the home of Vasudeva, so we are all like

> >co-borns being His children.

> >

>

> Jay Gurudeva,

>

> Yes, if I could look at that so simply. Take for example, you are a women

and are raped in a temple. I know a women. Lives in my town. Is then leaving

a positive

> or negative? If you find you can not go with some organization due to

principles you percieve are done wrongly is it positive or negative? And if

you then start an

> organization with principles you believe in? Lets take Prabhupada when we

speak of Iskcon. Did he acted fundamentaly and stayed in his Guru's

institution

> Gaudiya Matha after he has percieved things done wrongly in it(we all know

which things he percieved wrongly from his books), because his guru said

that his

> institution(Gaudiya Matha) would spread throughout the universe or did he

start new organization ISKCON with principles thought by his guru

incorporated in it. He

> could have as well stayed in Gaudiya Matha because people were also

preaching there. But he did not. We know for what reasons. And for that

reason he

> spread his society throughout the world. So I cannot agree with a blanket

statement that leaving is negative and joining is positive. What manifested

from

> Prabhupada's leaving Gaudiya matha?

> Just that somebody left some institution means nothing to me. What is

behind means.

>

> yours sisya,

>

> Zavisa

>

> p.s. So I can draw positive things from leaving also. Prabhupada changed

many things in his Iskcon from Gaudiya Matha standards to make them near to

> Westerners as did Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati from previous standards and

applied them to new circumstances. If guru is bonafide he can do that. He

then know

> what is to be done.

>

> My pranams to you again and thank you for pointing this. It makes me

rethink many things.

>

>

>

>

> >Best Wishes

> >Sanjay Rath

> >

> >-

> >Zavisa Nikac <zavisa.nikac

> ><varahamihira >

> >Sunday, April 09, 2000 1001 S Rath

> >Re: Re: [Jagannath] Transcript of ISKCON Reading part 3

> >

> >

> >> At 9. 4. 2000 3:54:00, you wrote:

> >> >OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

> >> >

> >> >Dear Zavisa,

> >> > A good Jyotisha is always compassionate and most tolerant of all.

> >These

> >> >are vaishnava traits. The leaving cannot be triggered by Jupiter as it

is

> >> >the Lord of Lagna of ISKCON. Check the antardasa to confirm the period

of

> >> >his leaving.

> >> >

> >>

> >> Jay Radhe,

> >>

> >> OK. Since you asked I've checked Chakra's web page for date's of

> >Harikesha's problems. Started from August 1998, lasted till the end of

year,

> >and next GBC

> >> meeting in Feb(I believe) next year. Antardasa is of Jupiter from April

> >1998 to August 1999. So it falls into Jupiter antardasa Moon dasa.

> >>

> >>

> >> > Why should the leaving of one person or the other have any

influence

> >on

> >> >you? Check your own chart for sensitivity and see the lordship of the

> >Moon.

> >> >If this is negative then you will easily be influenced by the lives of

> >> >others and may react in excess to situations. People come and people

go.

> >> >ISKCON is but an organisation, this World is also a bigger

organisation

> >of

> >> >His.

> >>

> >> Answer to this is that you please just read the book The Search for

> >Purity. It is said that lives of saints inspire us. It is a saint

speaking

> >there.

> >> Everybody follows somebody, as much as Iskcon does Prabhupada.

> >>

> >> yours sisya,

> >>

> >> Zavisa

> >> >

> >> > Saturn in the fourth is the real bane of ISKCON and they sould do

> >some

> >> >permanenet UPAYA by repairing old temples of Sri Krishna like the one

in

> >> >Dwarka or make some effort to repair and maintain the Puri temple. If

> >they

> >> >do this then saturn will be easily pacified as it is in the fourth

house

> >and

> >> >in trines to Badhakesh Mercury.

> >> >

> >> >Best Wishes

> >> >Sanjay Rath

> >> >

> >> >>

> >> >> Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

> >> >> Jay Radhe,

> >> >>

> >> >> What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999.

As

> >far

> >> >as I remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

> >> >> Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

> >> >Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a

main

> >> >figure

> >> >> in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in

the

> >> >field of book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

> >> >> of leaving.

> >> >>

> >> >> I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON

during

> >> >July 1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for

> >> >Purity

> >> >> where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not

> >> >tolerate that and than it switched in my head and then I started to

> >search

> >> >for my guru

> >> >> outside of ISKCON.

> >> >> <http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

> >> >> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya

Matha.

> >> >>

> >> >> Yours sisya,

> >> >>

> >> >> Zavisa

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >>

>

>>> ------

> >> >> Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup

> >> >> Get automatic protection and access to your important computer

files.

> >> >> Install today:

> >> >> http://click./1/2344/4/_/2192/_/955190720/

> >>

>

>>> ------

> >> >>

> >> >> HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

>------

> >> >Get paid for the stuff you know!

> >> >Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site!

> >> >http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955233319/

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> >> >

> >> >HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> >>

>

>> ------

> >> Get paid for the stuff you know!

> >> Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site!

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> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >------

> >Get paid for the stuff you know!

> >Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site!

> >http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955277908/

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> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

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>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Zavisa,

 

Prepare to be a good Jyotish through proper meditation so that when you

see the sorrow of others your heart will not sink and you will have the

fortitude to show them light in their hour of darkness.

 

Meditating on the mantra " HRIM SHREEM KLEEM " one can develop this. These

Akshara represent Hari, Rama & Krishna and also Self, Guru and God. This

also represents the Gopa's, Radhika and Krishna....

 

That was my message and I am happy to see that you have discussed this

sensitive topic in such a rational manner.

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

 

-

Zavisa Nikac <zavisa.nikac

<varahamihira >

Sunday, April 09, 2000 1846 S Rath

Re: Re: [Jagannath] Transcript of ISKCON Reading part 3

 

 

> At 9. 4. 2000 3:54:00, you wrote:

> >OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

> >

> >Dear Zavisa,

> > A good Jyotisha is always compassionate and most tolerant of all.

These

> >are vaishnava traits. The leaving cannot be triggered by Jupiter as it is

> >the Lord of Lagna of ISKCON. Check the antardasa to confirm the period of

> >his leaving.

> >

> > Why should the leaving of one person or the other have any influence

on

> >you? Check your own chart for sensitivity and see the lordship of the

Moon.

> >If this is negative then you will easily be influenced by the lives of

> >others and may react in excess to situations. People come and people go.

> >ISKCON is but an organisation, this World is also a bigger organisation

of

> >His.

>

> Jay Gurudeva,

>

> So what am I to conclude from this Moon info. Moon is said to rule the

Puranas, stories through which spirtual teachings are imparted through

examples, or

> through lives of saints, of people in general and their interaction with

saints etc... Also it is said that for a talented writer moon should be in

trikonas to Navamsa

> lagna influenced by Jupiter, Venus or Mercury. So than those writings

permanently reflect lives of certain people. Moon could convey this.

>

> Zavisa

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Saturn in the fourth is the real bane of ISKCON and they sould do

some

> >permanenet UPAYA by repairing old temples of Sri Krishna like the one in

> >Dwarka or make some effort to repair and maintain the Puri temple. If

they

> >do this then saturn will be easily pacified as it is in the fourth house

and

> >in trines to Badhakesh Mercury.

> >

> >Best Wishes

> >Sanjay Rath

> >

> >>

> >> Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

> >> Jay Radhe,

> >>

> >> What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999. As

far

> >as I remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

> >> Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

> >Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a main

> >figure

> >> in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in the

> >field of book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

> >> of leaving.

> >>

> >> I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON during

> >July 1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for

> >Purity

> >> where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not

> >tolerate that and than it switched in my head and then I started to

search

> >for my guru

> >> outside of ISKCON.

> >> <http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

> >> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya Matha.

> >>

> >> Yours sisya,

> >>

> >> Zavisa

> >>

> >>

>

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> >

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[Guest guest]

At 9. 4. 2000 16:41:00, you wrote:

>Dear Zavisa,

>

> That is not the way. Here we are focusing on the organisation and people

>coming and going. We are not focusing on the personal chart of the people

>who come and go. When we speak of the IRS movement or something like that we

>are talking of troubles showing up at ISKCON and not at what is right and

>what is wrong.

>

> The evil shows up during the periods of Saturn due to some inherent

>defects in an organisation and Saturn only tells us it is time for a clean

>up and it is time to rethink to plan and conserve. Saturn is the cause of

>growth and its focus is on the Upachaya.

>

> As far as taking temples and sisya or Parakrama of any kind is

>concerned, it is indicative of instability or ill-health of the ISKCON as

>the dispositor of the Lagna Lord is in the 8th house. It is likely that the

>event may have occured during the pratyantardasa of some planet influencing

>this house.

>

> In Jyotish try to focus on the events and do not get Judgemental about

>what is right and wrong. All that is happening is the wish of Bhagawan and

>He alone knows why He is doing all this. As far as ISKCON is concerned, what

>is happening is not good for the health of the organisation, but it will

>surely result in inner cleansing. Change is the sign of life.

>Did you check the pratyantar??

>Best Wishes

>Sanjay Rath

>

 

Jay Gurudeva,

 

For myself it was Moon-Jup-Sat when decision was make. In my personal chart it

was Jup-Ket-Sat. For Harikesa Swami Visnupada it seems to be the same Moon-

Jup-Sat, the time when problems started, however in his case it lasted for some

time and I cannot go through all the old postings on VNN, it could go up to sun

pratyantar. For Puri Maharaja I also do not know when this all exectly started,

just know that there is a strong pushing for many or all the temples there to

come to

him presently. I am getting this info from friends here not through sites like

VNN. So, I do not have the dates, unfortunately. I just know that when I met

Srila Puri

Maharaja in my Jup-Venus-Moon, I developed faith in him. He's gonna come to

Italy next week and is going to visit my country in my Jup-Ven-Jup, my present

period. Am looking forward to that time. When I first saw him I said now this

person is nondifferent from Prabhupada, same was the comment of my best friend.

He

has that glow. Looking forward to see him again. Being 87 years old, we must

take every opportunity to associate with him, but he also said when he is going

to

leave and that is not so soon, so there will be other opportunities also, I

hope.

 

yours sisya,

 

Zavisa

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>-

>Zavisa Nikac <zavisa.nikac

><varahamihira >

>Sunday, April 09, 2000 1630 S Rath

>Re: Re: Re: [Jagannath] Transcript of ISKCON Reading part 3

>

>

>> At 9. 4. 2000 11:10:00, you wrote:

>> >At 9. 4. 2000 3:54:00, you wrote:

>> >>OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

>> >>

>> >>Dear Zavisa,

>> >> A good Jyotisha is always compassionate and most tolerant of all.

>These

>> >>are vaishnava traits. The leaving cannot be triggered by Jupiter as it

>is

>> >>the Lord of Lagna of ISKCON. Check the antardasa to confirm the period

>of

>> >>his leaving.

>> >>

>> >

>> >Jay Radhe,

>> >Jai Nitai,

>> >

>> >I must make some observations. If leaving is looked plainly, that is when

>person has left Iskcon, then Jupiter also must come into play. For exmple

>you

>> >saw that mail about BV Puri MJ. He's got 300 disciples in Italy and some

>temples went to him in Jupiter. It happened also in Austria also. Harikesa

>left in Jupiter.

>> >

>> >Then you might say, well maybe they got their resons or decided in some

>other antardasa. But then that leaves us wth nothing as then we must

>> >speculate over that and see each particular case and that leaves us not

>with this plain statement that whenever there is a period and

>> >somebody leaves it is due to that on his mind. As we, obviously look at

>Vimsottari(mind) and antardasa(mind).

>> >But then, could it be trigered by some other dasa?

>> >Lets say person might have thoughts of Jupiter on his mind but was simply

>due to others(Narayana dasa) forced to apply these thoughts outside.

>> >It might not be immposible.

>> >So I put this before you for so you can consider.

>> >

>> >Yours sisya,

>> >

>> >Zavisa

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>> Jay Gurudeva,

>>

>> I have something to add.

>> Also if person left during the period of Rahu and had these kind of

>thoghts on his mind, its not that he could never change. I mean, a person is

>not a stone.

>> Especially in spiritual life. Also if person has left in Jupuiter's period

>it does not mean that he can not change. These periods tell us only about

>what was on

>> the minds of persons at a particular point in time, when they left(It

>should also be confirmed in their charts).

>>

>> Lets take Harikesa. When I was reading his stuff he wrote on VNN and other

>formus when he left, it seemed exactly as a hurt Jupiter by others who did

>not wish

>> him well. Looked to me exactly like that. I was in his area for 4 years

>and 4 months with mostly his disciples around me, and did know something

>about him.

>> Hovever then he started speaking some nonsense due to his mental problems.

>And now he must have changed because he lives in a 10 room villa and has a

>lot

>> of money. Does that mean that he could change, or is it triggered by his

>chart and Rahu there.

>> I mean, things can be caused in many ways and I can not subcribe to one

>only, on the cost of others.

>>

>> yours sisya,

>>

>> Zavisa

>>

>>

>> >> Why should the leaving of one person or the other have any influence

>on

>> >>you? Check your own chart for sensitivity and see the lordship of the

>Moon.

>> >>If this is negative then you will easily be influenced by the lives of

>> >>others and may react in excess to situations. People come and people go.

>> >>ISKCON is but an organisation, this World is also a bigger organisation

>of

>> >>His.

>> >>

>> >> Saturn in the fourth is the real bane of ISKCON and they sould do

>some

>> >>permanenet UPAYA by repairing old temples of Sri Krishna like the one in

>> >>Dwarka or make some effort to repair and maintain the Puri temple. If

>they

>> >>do this then saturn will be easily pacified as it is in the fourth house

>and

>> >>in trines to Badhakesh Mercury.

>> >>

>> >>Best Wishes

>> >>Sanjay Rath

>> >>

>> >>>

>> >>> Jay Jay Sri Narasimha,

>> >>> Jay Radhe,

>> >>>

>> >>> What about ISKCON Moon-Jupiter period from April 1998 to Aug 1999. As

>far

>> >>as I remember in summer 1998 Harikesa Swami Visnupada left.

>> >>> Srila Prabhupada did call him the most important granddisciple of

>> >>Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He was leading all in this area and was a

>main

>> >>figure

>> >>> in ISKCON. Having thousands of disciples, and being main mover in the

>> >>field of book distribution. Possibly Jup could also give these results

>> >>> of leaving.

>> >>>

>> >>> I have also decided that I did not want to associate with ISKCON

>during

>> >>July 1998 after I read the book from Paramadvaiti Swami The Search for

>> >>Purity

>> >>> where I learned how GBC treated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. I could not

>> >>tolerate that and than it switched in my head and then I started to

>search

>> >>for my guru

>> >>> outside of ISKCON.

>> >>> <http://www.vrindavan.org/English/Books/Search/search.rtf.zip>

>> >>> Only in October that year did I start associating with Gaudiya Matha.

>> >>>

>> >>> Yours sisya,

>> >>>

>> >>> Zavisa

>> >>>

>> >>>

>>

>>>> ------

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>> >>>

>> >>>

>> >>>

>> >>

>> >>

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[Guest guest]

JAYA JAGANNATHA!

 

Dear Zavisa!

 

Namaste.

 

> Jay Gurudeva,

>

> Yes, if I could look at that

so simply. Take for example,

you are a women and are raped

in a temple. I know a women.

Lives in my town. Is then

leaving a positive

> or negative? If you find you

can not go with some

organization due to principles

you percieve are done wrongly

is it positive or negative?

And if you then start an

> organization with principles

you believe in? Lets take

Prabhupada when we speak of

Iskcon. Did he acted

fundamentaly and stayed in his

Guru's institution

> Gaudiya Matha after he has

percieved things done wrongly

in it(we all know which things

he percieved wrongly from his

books), because his guru said

that his

> institution(Gaudiya Matha)

would spread throughout the

universe or did he start new

organization ISKCON with

principles thought by his guru

incorporated in it. He

> could have as well stayed in

Gaudiya Matha because people

were also preaching there. But

he did not. We know for what

reasons. And for that reason

he

> spread his society

throughout the world. So I

cannot agree with a blanket

statement that leaving is

negative and joining is

positive. What manifested from

> Prabhupada's leaving Gaudiya

matha?

> Just that somebody left some

institution means nothing to

me. What is behind means.

 

The purpose of a spiritual

organization which is

considered to be the

reincarnation of the Visva

Vaisnava Rja Sabha is to

convert materalists into

devotees. At the time whien

Srila Prabhupada left Gaudiya

Math behind it was clear that

the leaders of Gaudiya Math

were negaging not in preaching

but in grossly violating their

guru's instruction to form a

GBC and electing two acharyas

instead, which split the whole

Gaudiya Math and all of their

energy went into fighting over

properties and money instead

of preaching. This was the

institution that Prabhupada

left for fulfilling the order

of his guru. No one of Gaudiya

Math was either successful or

willing to preach to western

materialists. So he did it,

and see the success. Now the

Gaudiya Math became enlivened,

and all like BV Puri,

Tripurari and Narayan Maharaja

are doing nothing more than

seducing the people that were

made devotees by ISKCON. Who

introduced you to Krishna

consciousness: ISKCON or

Gaudiya Math? They are all

very expert in giving " higher

tattvas " than those taught in

ISKCON. But where is their

preaching? show me the

numbers! How many peolpe were

made devotees by the Gaudiya

Math withiut their contact

with ISKCON? Licking

Prabhupada's plate is veri

easy, but getting your own si

much more difficult.

There are countless millions

of materialists out there. Why

Narayan Maharaja and co. don,t

preach to them? Why does he

preach to ISKCON,s devotees,

senior men, Prabhupada,s

disciples, and torns them away

from their own family? I have

seen three cases like this in

one year. He.s just

systematically diminishing the

disciples, faith in their own

gurus, and even reinitiates

them, which is totaly against

any Vaishnava ettiquette and

the law of the Parampara. By

the way Prabhupada's

godbrothers did the same with

his disciples in the early

seventies.

 

So what are you talking about?

If they don't need ISKCON,

fine, let them preach to

whomever they want, but not to

our people. Then who cares?

But no, they are always

engaged in gossiping about

ISKCON, finding fault with the

leaders, and praising

Prabhupada to look authentic.

This is the business of

jackals, not human beings.

You'd better read the story of

Sankhasura. He's the demon

representing the anartha of

seducing other,s followers.

All these big gurus should do

so and honstly find out

whether they are after

followers or not.

 

I'm sorry for my words but I

won,t tolerate silently

throwing mud on ISKCON all the

time.

 

Yours, Gauranga das

[Guest guest]

>The purpose of a spiritual

>organization which is

>considered to be the

>reincarnation of the Visva

>Vaisnava Rja Sabha is to

>convert materalists into

>devotees. At the time whien

>Srila Prabhupada left Gaudiya

>Math behind it was clear that

>the leaders of Gaudiya Math

>were negaging not in preaching

>but in grossly violating their

>guru's instruction to form a

>GBC and electing two acharyas

>instead, which split the whole

>Gaudiya Math and all of their

>energy went into fighting over

>properties and money instead

>of preaching. This was the

>institution that Prabhupada

>left for fulfilling the order

>of his guru. No one of Gaudiya

>Math was either successful or

>willing to preach to western

>materialists. So he did it,

>and see the success. Now the

>Gaudiya Math became enlivened,

>and all like BV Puri,

>Tripurari and Narayan Maharaja

>are doing nothing more than

>seducing the people that were

>made devotees by ISKCON. Who

>introduced you to Krishna

>consciousness: ISKCON or

>Gaudiya Math? They are all

>very expert in giving " higher

>tattvas " than those taught in

>ISKCON. But where is their

>preaching? show me the

>numbers! How many peolpe were

>made devotees by the Gaudiya

>Math withiut their contact

>with ISKCON? Licking

>Prabhupada's plate is veri

>easy, but getting your own si

>much more difficult.

>There are countless millions

>of materialists out there. Why

>Narayan Maharaja and co. don,t

>preach to them? Why does he

>preach to ISKCON,s devotees,

>senior men, Prabhupada,s

>disciples, and torns them away

>from their own family? I have

>seen three cases like this in

>one year. He.s just

>systematically diminishing the

>disciples, faith in their own

>gurus, and even reinitiates

>them, which is totaly against

>any Vaishnava ettiquette and

>the law of the Parampara. By

>the way Prabhupada's

>godbrothers did the same with

>his disciples in the early

>seventies.

>

>So what are you talking about?

>If they don't need ISKCON,

>fine, let them preach to

>whomever they want, but not to

>our people. Then who cares?

>But no, they are always

>engaged in gossiping about

>ISKCON, finding fault with the

>leaders, and praising

>Prabhupada to look authentic.

>This is the business of

>jackals, not human beings.

>You'd better read the story of

>Sankhasura. He's the demon

>representing the anartha of

>seducing other,s followers.

>All these big gurus should do

>so and honstly find out

>whether they are after

>followers or not.

>

>I'm sorry for my words but I

>won,t tolerate silently

>throwing mud on ISKCON all the

>time.

>

> Yours, Gauranga das

>

 

Sri Sri Guru Gauranga Jayatah

 

Well, in my case I was brought to spiritual life by my aunt that was trying to

follow Maheshwarananda(Is curently in Italy married). I read first yoga book

when I was

six and became vegetarian when 6 or 9 even though my parents were strictly

against it. Read Bhagavatam 1st canto and Raja vidya when I was 10 or something

like that, and liked reading Maheshwarananda's books. That was what brought me

to spiritual life. In Iskcon at the very beggining of my Jup-Sat it came to me

practicaly. But I did not took initiation there and what do you want? Let me go.

 

But, I do understand your concerns. It does happen. Except for

SiddhaSwarupananda's mission they generally except ISKCON people, and except for

some like

Srila Bhakti Vallabha Tirtha Maharaja, they reinitiate them(in his Math it is

forbidden). Yeah, but it usually happenes this way. Person in ISKCON gets

disilussioned

with somebody or something happens to her and that approaches Narayana MJ for

example and he excepts her and then she contiues speaking nonsense about

what happened to her. I speak from personal experience with a woman. When you

get couple of people like that and then they came to some " misionnary " idea

to " save " their older friends what hapens is problems. I do not agree to that,

and that's what I say. And I do that way. Its better to preach to new people.

Therefore

we're gonna publish some books now so we can do that. To whom you are gonna

preach if you have nothing? But to those you knew.

 

But as far, ultimately it goes, it boils down to whether guru has got real

connection to Krishna or not, and I see Puri Maharaja as bonafide. And he's got

his mission

of 20 temples in India that he manifested by his own Sakti and preaching. And

believe me, he is much criticised outside also, because he did not get diksa

from

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, rather Harinama only. But I believe in the power of

the holy name. And him.

What happens in Italy is another story. There are some people that were in

Iskcon and don't wanna be there any more and came to Puri Maharaja and he

accepted them. For me that's mercy. He also said on one videotaped lecture that

he does not believe in officiating Acarya. That Acarya should be self-effulgent.

Swarupa Damodara and some others visited him and he told them that. And I never

heard him speaking bad about Iskcon. Heard negative statements from some,

but not from him.

 

As you know he was allowed by ISKCON to preach but not to initiate. And when he

started to initiate he was forbidden. But what do you expect from an Acarya

but to give the holy name to others. They could have thought of that first,

before letting him preach there. I mean it simply strikes the eye. He must have

done that

when he was approached by others. Who can forbid an Acarya to initiate.

 

That's my personal stance.

 

I understand your points, and value them to a degree,

 

Zavisa