RE: Parasara's AK Kendradi Graha Dasa

September 10, 2005

om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

Dear Narasimha

coments below -

With best wishes and warm regards,

Sanjay Rath

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Sri Jagannath Center®

15B Gangaram Hospital Road

New Delhi 110060, India

http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

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sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Narasimha P.V.R. RaoFriday, September 09, 2005 8:11 PMsohamsa Subject: Parasara's AK Kendradi Graha Dasa

Om Gurubhyo Namah

Pranaam Sanjay and other Jyotishis,

For the last one year, I've been going back to BPHS, reading Parasara's words carefully, pondering over them, interpreting them without any biases coming from the previous notions and then trying them out. I will slowly share my findings with others as time permits.

A couple of weeks back, I talked about Parasara's available teachings on Drigdasa. I pointed out the glaring differences between our previous understanding and Parasara's available teachings.

I want to do the same thing with AK Kendradi Graha dasa today. Please note that this is not out of disrespect for your teachings. I merely want to understand Parasara correctly and making a sincere attempt.[s.Rath:] Very good. I have waited for this for too long.

* * *

My previous understanding (which is programmed in JHora) seems to be different from what Parasara Maharshi taught.

Parasara's verses on Kendradi dasa from the chapter on dasas in BPHS are:

lagnasaptamayormadhye yo rAshirbalavAn.h bhavet.h |

tataH kendrAdisaMsthAnAM rAshInAJNcha balakramAt.h || 175||

kArakAdapi rAshInAM kheTAnAM chaivameva hi |

dashAbdAshcharavajGYeyAH kheTAnAM cha svabhAvadhi || 176||

dvirAshyadhipakheTasya gaNyedubhayAvadhi |

ubhayoradhikA saMkhyA kArakasya dashA samAH || 177||

The literal translation would be: "Whichever rasi is stronger between the lagna and the seventh, [dasas are] of the rasis that are in quadrants etc from it, in the order of strength. From [atma] karaka also, [dasas] of rasis and [dasas] of planets are [found] just like this. The dasa years should be known like [in] Chara [dasa]. For planets, [count] till own house. For a planet owning two rasis, [one] may count till both. The higher number of the two equals the dasa [years] of the Karaka."[s.Rath:] Correct translation

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There seem to be some differences between what we have been doing and what Parasara taught. I will outline the major differences:

(1) We have been taking dasa years like in Moola dasa, i.e. we've been taking Vimsottari dasa years with moolatrikona correction. Parasara definitely did not talk about that.[s.Rath:] Why have you been taking the years in this way? Moola dasa is exclusive and is based on Moola trikona. Where is the reference to using Moola trikona for AK Kendradi or Lagna Kendradi Rasi dasa?

Parasara talked about chara dasa years. In lagna/AK Kendradi RASI dasa, he taught using Chara dasa years. In AK kendradi GRAHA dasa, he taught using years similar to Chara dasa years, but by counting from the planet to the rasi (instead of counting from the rasi to the planet). If a planet owns two signs, he suggested counting to both and taking the higher count.[s.Rath:] OK. But in which direction are you going to count? Please specify.

(2) Parasara did not talk about reckoning kendras etc in forward/reverse order based on lagna or 7th being in odd/even/odd-footed/even-footed signs. He simply skipped the issue. He talked about the forward/backward counting in some dasas and he skipped the issue in some dasas (e.g. sthira, yogardha, kendradi). I am of the view that this means that we count in the normal order. We take "kendras etc" to mean kendras (1, 4, 7, 10), panapharas (2, 5, 8, 11) and apoklimas (3, 6, 9, 12), reckoned zodiacally, in the absence of any special guideline. The absence of a special guideline is a guideline in itself![s.Rath:] No thats not right. Parasara does not have to mention basics again and again. He has already advised that these are based on Chara dasa i.e. Narayana Dasa principles.

(3) Parasara used the expression "kendrAdisaMsthAnAM rAshInAJNcha balakramAt.h". The word "balakramAt.h" clearly means "in the order of strength". Thus, we take the quadrants in the order of strength, panapharas in the order of strength and apoklimas in the order of strength. Until now, we haven't used strength and merely went zodically or anti-zodiacally from the stronger of 1st and 7th.[s.Rath:] Thats totally wrong. We should use strengths. I do use strengths all the time. But the question we need to ask is *what sources of strength*. I had advised Visti to study this aspect and he had presented a paper on this in the west coast. If only you had attended that. I am happy that you are going through this now as I presume you have more time. Visti please forward your findings to Narasimha asap.

One may wonder why Parasara talked about taking the stronger of lagna and 7th and then finding quadrants etc in the order of strength. Qudrants from the 1st/7th are, after all, the same signs. My view on this is that the natural order is decided by the starting sign. When you cannot decide the stronger of two signs based on the rules given by Parasara prior to this verse, this natural order matters. Thus, which sign starts dasas is important.[s.Rath:] This has been used by Sri Chowdhury (I am not sure if that is the name) in an issue of the AM where he also gave the option of starting from 1st or 7th for male charts and 4th/10th for female charts. Have you read that. He gave some slokas from a Bengali translation. I can't remember them now. Please try that option. There are some more questions coming from this statement but I will keep them for later.

(4) The fact that Parasara used the word "kAraka" to refer to the dasa lord in the case of planetary Kendradi dasa makes me think that he wants only 8 planets to be considered and not Ketu. If not, he would have used the words "kheTa" or "graha" instead of the word "kAraka". The dasa starts from AK and only the eight chara karakas get dasas. So far, at SJC, we've been taking Ketu too. Parasara seems to suggest otherwise.[s.Rath:] Oh really! Thats interesting and quite logical. Now this can start another controversy about 7/8 CK. But I will go along with this one as it seems logical that a person cannot get moksha in this body.

* * *

I am sure there will be opposition to my views and people will continue to follow what they are used to. So, I will not try to convince people, but I will give one example to clarify the calculation.

Let us take your (Sanjay's) chart.

August 7, 1963Time: 21:15:00Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 83 E 58' 00", 21 N 27' 00" Sambalpur, India

Let us find Atma Karaka Kendradi Graha (AKKG) dasa. AK is in Cp. The stronger of 1st and 7th from AK is Cn. When planets in quadrants are arranged in the order of strength, we get Sun, Venus and Saturn. BTW, for the comparison of strengths of rasis and planets, I am strictly using the guidelines given by Parasara prior to the verse in question. I am 100% adhering to the available text of Parasara.

The order of planets in panapharas is: Mercury, Moon. The order of planets in apoklimas is: Ketu, Rahu, Jupiter and Mars.

Sun is in Cn, an even-footed sign. We count from him to his sign Le in reverse order (like in Chara dasa, but from planet to sign). We get a count of 12 and subtracting 1, we get 11. So Sun dasa is for 11 years. Venus is in Cn, an even-footed sign. He owns two signs Ta and Li. Counting from Cn to Ta and Li in reverse order and subtracting 1, we get counts of 2 and 9. Taking the larger number, we get 9 years for Venus dasa.[s.Rath:] Why are you counting from the planet to the sign in the reverse if you have stated earlier that for the graha dasa you will not use the forward or reverse footed nature of the sign. Now if you are going to use this then you should use this for all aspects.

The complete AKKG dasa calculations are shown below:

AK Kendradi Graha Dasa of D-1 (work of the soul):

Sun: 1963-08-07 (21:15:00) - 1974-08-07 (16:51:32) Ven: 1974-08-07 (16:51:32) - 1983-08-08 (0:19:02) Sat: 1983-08-08 (0:19:02) - 1995-08-08 (2:03:26) Merc: 1995-08-08 (2:03:26) - 2006-08-07 (21:40:05) Moon: 2006-08-07 (21:40:05) - 2013-08-07 (16:50:56) Rah: 2013-08-07 (16:50:56) - 2022-08-07 (23:58:28) Jup: 2022-08-07 (23:58:28) - 2034-08-08 (1:54:47) Mars: 2034-08-08 (1:54:47) - 2044-08-07 (15:27:04)

Sun is the BK. He is in mantra sthana. So his dasa gave spiritual initiation with savitR^i gAyatrI mantra.[s.Rath:] Thats not right. I did not get the initiation into the Gayatri mantra at this time. It was delayed until Ju dasa Ma antardasa in 1977 after Makar sankranti due to my elder brother and other factors.

Venus is PiK. He is the 8th lord in the 5th house. He is in the 7th house from AK, showing the desires of the soul. So paternal elders played a role in your life and you learnt occult subjects needed for fulfilling the desire of the soul.[s.Rath:] ok

Saturn is the AK. He is the 12th lord in 11th. This dasa brought a lot of changes in your life.[s.Rath:] ok. well, maybe...

AK Kendradi Graha Dasa of D-1 (experiences of the soul):

Sat MD: 1983-08-08 (0:19:02) - 1995-08-08 (2:03:26)

Antardasas in this MD:

Sun: 1983-08-08 (0:19:02) - 1985-03-22 (7:09:45) Ven: 1985-03-22 (7:09:45) - 1986-07-24 (20:12:25) Sat: 1986-07-24 (20:12:25) - 1988-05-01 (20:09:32) Merc: 1988-05-01 (20:09:32) - 1989-12-20 (6:38:23) Moon: 1989-12-20 (6:38:23) - 1991-01-02 (14:52:36) Rah: 1991-01-02 (14:52:36) - 1992-05-01 (20:48:55) Jup: 1992-05-01 (20:48:55) - 1994-02-10 (17:20:19) Mars: 1994-02-10 (17:20:19) - 1995-08-08 (2:03:26)

While Saturn is the 12th lord, Rahu is the DK and aspects UL. Rahu antardasa brought the marriage. Mars is the PK. His antardasa may have given a child. Jupiter is AmK. Though your career started in Rahu antardasa, Jupiter antardasa must have given the actual posting and early growth in career.[s.Rath:] What spiritual upliftment does a person get after marriage??!! Career from AK Kendradi dasa! Narasimha please. What spiritual direction would I have got by sipping tons of tea in Krushi Bhavan.

Mercury dasa started in 1995. I wonder when you started your Jaimini Sutras book. Was it around that time?[s.Rath:] Yes about this time I thought about it.

Since 1995, you've been writing books, articles and teaching astrology. Mercury signifies those activities.[s.Rath:] Thats right. Since Jyotish is vedanga this is justified.

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Perhaps I can give more examples later. I hope this gives some food for thought to those who care about what the available teachings of Parasara say on AKKG dasa. Those who don't care or believe that available verses from BPHS are so corrupted that there is not any truth in them may kindly ignore this mail.[s.Rath:] Very interesting.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

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September 10, 2005

Pranaam Sanjay,

> (1) We have been taking dasa years like in Moola dasa, i.e. we've been> taking Vimsottari dasa years with moolatrikona correction. Parasara> definitely did not talk about that.> [s.Rath:] Why have you been taking the years in this way? Moola dasa is> exclusive and is based on Moola trikona. Where is the reference to using> Moola trikona for AK Kendradi or Lagna Kendradi Rasi dasa?

I have been taking dasa years in AKKG dasa in this way because I was under the impression that YOU taught so! I may have misunderstood your teaching. It looks like Visti also had the same misunderstanding. Or probably I misunderstood you and ended up confusing everybody including Visti. I found an article on Visti's website that mentioned you as the guru and guide:

http://www.srigaruda.com/archives/kkd.htm

I believe this article was also published in Jyotish Digest and presented at a west coast conference. This article teaches finding dasa years by applying Moolatrikona correction to Vimsottari dasa years.

Are you saying that I and Visti misunderstood you? If so, can I take it that you are accepting Parasara's teaching on Chara dasa like years without a contention on Moolatrikona corrected Vimsottari years? Kindly clarify!!

> Parasara talked about chara dasa years. In lagna/AK Kendradi RASI dasa, he> taught using Chara dasa years. In AK kendradi GRAHA dasa, he taught using> years similar to Chara dasa years, but by counting from the planet to the> rasi (instead of counting from the rasi to the planet). If a planet owns two> signs, he suggested counting to both and taking the higher count.> [s.Rath:] OK. But in which direction are you going to count? Please specify.

When teaching Chara dasa, Parasara said that rasis are counted from dasa rasi to its lord. He said that the counting was forward/backward based on whether the dasa rasi is odd-footed or even-footed. In AKKG dasa, he said that dasa years are found "like in Chara dasa", but the counting is from the planet to the owned sign.

Obviously, there is no doubt about counting from planet to the owned sign. The only doubt is about the direction. Obviously, the counting has to be forward/backward based on something being odd-footed or even-footed (because it is supposed to be "like in Chara dasa"). There are two options - (1) check whether the planet is in odd-footed/even-footed sign and take the direction accordingly, (2) check whether the sign owned is odd-footed/even-footed and take the direction accordingly.

When counting from the sign to its paka in the case of dasas of signs, we checked the odd-footed/even-footed nature of the sign. When counting from paka of a sign to the sign, it makes sense to check the nature of the paka. That would be a natural interpretation of "like in Chara dasa, but count from planet to owned sign".

However, other view is also tenable. I considered both and accepted the former after some testing.

> (2) Parasara did not talk about reckoning kendras etc in forward/reverse> order based on lagna or 7th being in odd/even/odd-footed/even-footed signs.> He simply skipped the issue. He talked about the forward/backward counting> in some dasas and he skipped the issue in some dasas (e.g. sthira, yogardha,> kendradi). I am of the view that this means that we count in the normal> order. We take "kendras etc" to mean kendras (1, 4, 7, 10), panapharas (2,> 5, 8, 11) and apoklimas (3, 6, 9, 12), reckoned zodiacally, in the absence> of any special guideline. The absence of a special guideline is a guideline> in itself!> [s.Rath:] No thats not right. Parasara does not have to mention basics again> and again. He has already advised that these are based on Chara dasa i.e.> Narayana Dasa principles.

He mentioned dasa years to be based on Chara dasa and hence he does not need to repeat how to find dasa years. But, I am not talking about that above. I am talking about the order of dasas. The dasa order is NOT based on chara dasa. It starts from the stronger of 1st/7th and goes as quadrants, panapharas and apoklimas. THAT is NOT based on Chara dasa. For example, in the next Mandooka dasa also, Parasara talked about starting from the stronger of 1st and 7th and then talked about going zodiacally or anti-zodiacally based on the first sign being odd or even. He did not make the same statement in Kendradi dasa and only talked about going thru the qudrants etc "in the order of strength". He did not distinguish between odd and even lagna.

> (3) Parasara used the expression "kendrAdisaMsthAnAM rAshInAJNcha> balakramAt.h". The word "balakramAt.h" clearly means "in the order of> strength". Thus, we take the quadrants in the order of strength, panapharas> in the order of strength and apoklimas in the order of strength. Until now,> we haven't used strength and merely went zodically or anti-zodiacally from> the stronger of 1st and 7th.> [s.Rath:] Thats totally wrong. We should use strengths. I do use strengths> all the time. But the question we need to ask is *what sources of strength*.> I had advised Visti to study this aspect and he had presented a paper on> this in the west coast. If only you had attended that. I am happy that you> are going through this now as I presume you have more time. Visti please> forward your findings to Narasimha asap.

Thanks for that. I read the paper on Visti's site and do see that the order of strengths is used within quadrants, within panapharas and within apoklimas. This is more consistent with Parasara's words and I am very glad that this issue is already taken care of!

Actually, I don't have "more time" now, but am able to focus more and do more with the time I have.

Taking apoklimas before panapharas if lagna is even has no basis in Parasara. Parasara did not indicate any different treatment of odd/even lagnas. Finding dasa years based on moolatrikona corrected Vimsottari dasa years also has absolutely no basis in Parasara. Please consider those factors too.

Regarding strengths, I would use the sources of strengths mentioned by Parasara before that verse.

> Sun is in Cn, an even-footed sign. We count from him to his sign Le in> reverse order (like in Chara dasa, but from planet to sign). We get a count> of 12 and subtracting 1, we get 11. So Sun dasa is for 11 years. Venus is in> Cn, an even-footed sign. He owns two signs Ta and Li. Counting from Cn to Ta> and Li in reverse order and subtracting 1, we get counts of 2 and 9. Taking> the larger number, we get 9 years for Venus dasa.> [s.Rath:] Why are you counting from the planet to the sign in the reverse> if you have stated earlier that for the graha dasa you will not use the> forward or reverse footed nature of the sign. Now if you are going to use> this then you should use this for all aspects.

In dasa years, Parasara explicitly mentioned "like in Chara dasa". So I use the forward/reverse counting based on odd/even-footed nature. When mentioning the dasa reckoning (i.e. reckoning "kendras etc"), he did not mention any change based on odd/even or odd-footed/eve-footed nature.

If you were to go by the nature of lagna, why take odd/even and why not odd-footed/even-footed? Why not go by the odd-footed/even-footed nature of 9th or 12th?

I am strictly following Parasara and don't have to contend with all those issues.

> Sun is the BK. He is in mantra sthana. So his dasa gave spiritual initiation> with savitR^i gAyatrI mantra.> [s.Rath:] Thats not right. I did not get the initiation into the Gayatri> mantra at this time. It was delayed until Ju dasa Ma antardasa in 1977 after> Makar sankranti due to my elder brother and other factors.

Even Venus is in 5th with BK Sun.

I am sorry for the mistake. I was somehow under a wrong impression. Visti also wrote on your chart in his article:

"During Venus Dasa – Venus Antar Dasa (1968-1970) the native and his brother were initiated into the Savitur Gayatri Mantra. His brother was given the same by the maternal uncle, whilst he received it from the Paternal uncle."

I will remember it now. What month in 1977?

> [s.Rath:] What spiritual upliftment does a person get after marriage??!!> Career from AK Kendradi dasa! Narasimha please. What spiritual direction> would I have got by sipping tons of tea in Krushi Bhavan.

AK does not only show "spiritual upliftment". He shows the spirit. Upliftment or suppression depends on how he is placed in the chart and what influences are exerted on him. I wouldn't look at AKKG dasa as a dasa of "spiritual upliftment". That is but one part of it.

A yoga between AK and PK in the 5th can make one the Prime Minister of a country. AK is not just about sadhana, mantras, Jyotish and upasana. It is the key to everything in life. Sipping tons of tea in Krushi Bhavan and getting married also happen because AK co-operates with those activities. AK is the "king" of a chart according to Parasara and nothing happens without AK's co-operation. If one gets married, it is because AK chooses to have a union with DK. If one gets children, it is because AK chooses to have a union with PK. I can't understand why you feel that such events should not be seen from AKKG dasa.

Your sishya,

Narasimha

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