Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Dear Shivrajji, 1) Have you noticed the strange biased logic in the following? Quote Secondly, can you quote even a single mantra that talks of animals like Rams and Bulls and Scorpions etc. etc. in a successive order as is done in the Surya Siddhanta by Maya the mlechha or the Puranas? Why were the Vedic seers shy of mentioning those " Scales " and " Virgins " etc. in a " pratyakshya " manner and why should we have to employ " paroskhya professors " to solve the " mystery of the missing rashis " in the Vedas? Unquote The Puranas clearly mention the names of the Rashis such as Mesha and Vrshabha. I have even quoted the verses from the Vamana purana showing how the Rashis such as Mesha and Vrshabha are linked to the fixed Nakshatras. The Puranas have the exalted status of the Fifth Veda, as mentioned in the Upanishads (Chandogya Upanishad 7.1.2). While Vedas have the Paroksha meanings of the verses, the Puranas have direct meaning so that even a layman can understand that. Kaulji is thoroughly confused searching paroksha meanings in the puranas and not accepting the direct meanings 2) Quote Why do we not find any mention in the Rik Jyotisham or even Yajur Jyotisham either of Rashis or of Mangal, Shani etc. planets? Unquote I have already given the reference of Rashi in the Vedanga Jyotisha. Yet he says as above. Further how does he say that Mangal and Shani are not given in the Vedas? How can a person who ridicules the Veads having Paroksha meaning will find that in the Vedas. Let him first accept that the Vedas have Paroksha meaning and then look for the Rsahis in the Vedas and he will find it. If after unconditionbal acceptance of the Paroksha meaning of the Vedic vertses he does not find the nine grahas in the Vedas then I shall show him. Just as a sample let me tell him that Rahu and Ketu are mentioned as Sewarabhanu in Veda. Sincerely Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Avtar <Avtar wrote: Avtar <Avtar [Abhinavagupta] Re: References of Rashis in the Vedaas and the Vedanga Jyotisha. Abhinavagupta Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:29 AM Shri Shivraj Knokraji, Namaskar! < If we read RgVedic Hymn: 1.164.11, it mentions " sun having twelve spokes in his wheel " .> You have given neither the original mantra in full nor a complete translation of the mantra. Why? Pl. translate the full mantra yourself into English and then let me know as to what the meaning of twelve spokes is. How do you reconcile those twelve " animals " with the figure of 720, if not as days plus nights of the twelve months? Secondly, can you quote even a single mantra that talks of animals like Rams and Bulls and Scorpions etc. etc. in a successive order as is done in the Surya Siddhanta by Maya the mlechha or the Puranas? Why were the Vedic seers shy of mentioning those " Scales " and " Virgins " etc. in a " pratyakshya " manner and why should we have to employ " paroskhya professors " to solve the " mystery of the missing rashis " in the Vedas? Why do we not find any mention in the Rik Jyotisham or even Yajur Jyotisham either of Rashis or of Mangal, Shani etc. planets? How on earth and under the sun did the Vedic Seers calculate their horoscopes according to you correct to the nearest second of planetary longitude if Rik Jyotisham takes the duration of a year as 366 and wants us to derive the duration of a tithi on the basis of mean longitudes of the sun and the moon? There were Delphic Oracles in ancient Greece. There were clay tablets of the position of planets vis-a-vis Aries etc. astrological signs in Babylonia which was yesteryear's Iraq. And I am sure you know what the fate of Babylonia and/or those Delphis was. Do you mean to say that we in India also did have similar Delphis? My dear friend, by trying to prove that the real Vamadevas were astro-buffs you are putting the Vedic seers to shame, since fatalism is completely against the Vedic ethos. We must not forget Iqbal's famous lines: Iran Misra Roma, sab mit gaye jahan se ab tak magar hai baakee namo nishan hamara Ides of March could have been predicted for Julius Caesar by the Roman soothsayer but we do not have any such records in India prior to the charlatan Varahamihira' s Brihat Samhita. Pl., for God's sake, do not involve real Vamadevas in this hocus-pocus known as Vedic astrology! Do not forget the " chetavani " of Chanakaya! With regards, A K Kaul [Reply to Shivraj Khokra's post (22 June 2009) at http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5194 Rest of thi sthread at Koenraad's post (23 June 2009) at http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5206] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 Dear Shivrajji, 1) Have you noticed the strange biased logic in the following? Quote Secondly, can you quote even a single mantra that talks of animals like Rams and Bulls and Scorpions etc. etc. in a successive order as is done in the Surya Siddhanta by Maya the mlechha or the Puranas? Why were the Vedic seers shy of mentioning those " Scales " and " Virgins " etc. in a " pratyakshya " manner and why should we have to employ " paroskhya professors " to solve the " mystery of the missing rashis " in the Vedas? Unquote The Puranas clearly mention the names of the Rashis such as Mesha and Vrshabha. I have even quoted the verses from the Vamana purana showing how the Rashis such as Mesha and Vrshabha are linked to the fixed Nakshatras. The Puranas have the exalted status of the Fifth Veda, as mentioned in the Upanishads (Chandogya Upanishad 7.1.2). While Vedas have the Paroksha meanings of the verses, the Puranas have direct meaning so that even a layman can understand that. Kaulji is thoroughly confused searching paroksha meanings in the puranas and not accepting the direct meanings 2) Quote Why do we not find any mention in the Rik Jyotisham or even Yajur Jyotisham either of Rashis or of Mangal, Shani etc. planets? Unquote I have already given the reference of Rashi in the Vedanga Jyotisha. Yet he says as above. Further how does he say that Mangal and Shani are not given in the Vedas? How can a person who ridicules the Veads having Paroksha meaning will find that in the Vedas. Let him first accept that the Vedas have Paroksha meaning and then look for the Rsahis in the Vedas and he will find it. If after unconditionbal acceptance of the Paroksha meaning of the Vedic vertses he does not find the nine grahas in the Vedas then I shall show him. Just as a sample let me tell him that Rahu and Ketu are mentioned as Sewarabhanu in Veda. Sincerely Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Avtar <Avtar wrote: Avtar <Avtar [Abhinavagupta] Re: References of Rashis in the Vedaas and the Vedanga Jyotisha. Abhinavagupta Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:29 AM Shri Shivraj Knokraji, Namaskar! < If we read RgVedic Hymn: 1.164.11, it mentions " sun having twelve spokes in his wheel " .> You have given neither the original mantra in full nor a complete translation of the mantra. Why? Pl. translate the full mantra yourself into English and then let me know as to what the meaning of twelve spokes is. How do you reconcile those twelve " animals " with the figure of 720, if not as days plus nights of the twelve months? Secondly, can you quote even a single mantra that talks of animals like Rams and Bulls and Scorpions etc. etc. in a successive order as is done in the Surya Siddhanta by Maya the mlechha or the Puranas? Why were the Vedic seers shy of mentioning those " Scales " and " Virgins " etc. in a " pratyakshya " manner and why should we have to employ " paroskhya professors " to solve the " mystery of the missing rashis " in the Vedas? Why do we not find any mention in the Rik Jyotisham or even Yajur Jyotisham either of Rashis or of Mangal, Shani etc. planets? How on earth and under the sun did the Vedic Seers calculate their horoscopes according to you correct to the nearest second of planetary longitude if Rik Jyotisham takes the duration of a year as 366 and wants us to derive the duration of a tithi on the basis of mean longitudes of the sun and the moon? There were Delphic Oracles in ancient Greece. There were clay tablets of the position of planets vis-a-vis Aries etc. astrological signs in Babylonia which was yesteryear's Iraq. And I am sure you know what the fate of Babylonia and/or those Delphis was. Do you mean to say that we in India also did have similar Delphis? My dear friend, by trying to prove that the real Vamadevas were astro-buffs you are putting the Vedic seers to shame, since fatalism is completely against the Vedic ethos. We must not forget Iqbal's famous lines: Iran Misra Roma, sab mit gaye jahan se ab tak magar hai baakee namo nishan hamara Ides of March could have been predicted for Julius Caesar by the Roman soothsayer but we do not have any such records in India prior to the charlatan Varahamihira' s Brihat Samhita. Pl., for God's sake, do not involve real Vamadevas in this hocus-pocus known as Vedic astrology! Do not forget the " chetavani " of Chanakaya! With regards, A K Kaul [Reply to Shivraj Khokra's post (22 June 2009) at http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5194 Rest of thi sthread at Koenraad's post (23 June 2009) at http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5206] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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