Guest guest Posted September 19, 2000 Report Share Posted September 19, 2000 Jai Jai Sri Jagannath !!! Dear YND, The 12th house indicates our past (the family from which we have descended - our forefathers etc.,) and the 2nd, our future (our own family). When we talk of our past, we mean our genetics - the family geneology. When the family geneology is worked backwards i.e., when you begin tracing our forefathers you will find that all of us belong to a particular Gotra which would have begun from a Maharishi - eg., Kashyapa gotra from Kashyapa Maharishi, Atri or Rathattreya gotra from Atri Maharishi and so on. No other house other than the 12th indicates this family geneology. From this has come the Lagna and from the Lagna comes the 2nd or our own family. Therefore, we consider only the 12th house for Upapada matters. Thus, Upapada is important. Upapada is the maya of marriage. In our traditional marriage, the mandapa (the stage/podium) is set up and a sthamba (pillar - representing the Dharma - also representing the deity blessing the dharma of marriage and its fruits, which is good, comfortable life and good children to carry on the family geneology and the tradition and culture) is set up. All the relatives - near and dear ones - gather to bless the wedding. Thus, the first marriage is seen from the 1st UL and the second from the 2nd UL and so on. In fact, according to shastras if a man and woman would be associated with each other for a year at the least even at the mana level (without formal marriage) it is considered a marriage and will be taken as the 1st UL. Jupiter's aspect on the 2nd from UL indicates the ideal year of solmenizing the marriage, because Jupiter (physically) represents the Brahmana who performs the marriage and his aspect on the 2nd from UL indicates the arrival of the brahmana to perform the wedding. Thus the periods of Nayarayana Dasa/Antardasa rasis aspecting the rasi dispositing UL will indicate marriage. What is gained from marriage and what is seen from the Upapada? The 7th house is the eleventh from 9th house - gains of Dharma is marriage. 5th house is eleventh to the 7th and children are the gains of marriage. The 12th house is fourth from the 9th - the sukhasthana of Dharma. Thus, the main thing associated with marriage is Dharma. We know that Dharma comes from father and Peace comes from mother - "Sarva Dharma Pitrupade, Sarva Sukha Matrupade". The coming together of these two - father and mother gives rise to the Lagna. You have studied that sustenance of the Upapada is seen from its 2nd house and the planets conjoining it. While all planets in the 2nd give one reason or the other to damage the marriage (the Upapada) only Surya (who is the true representative of Dharma) protects the marriage while Rahu and Saturn, who are opposed to Surya, are first rate malefics to Upapada and will inflict considerable damage on the Upapada. Thus, as understood from the teachings of Sri Krishna in the Bhagavat Gita, any corruption of dharma will lead to corruption of women and the corruption of women will lead to begetting undesired children. Why do we consider Upapada and not the Arudha of the 7th house for marriage purposes? Upapada is also called Gaunapada - anuchara - or that which follows. The family geneology follows one after the other. The blessings of all elders (including those of the Maharishi associated/indicated) are obtained from the Upapada and not from A7. As we know, the 7th house is for partnerships/relationships/interactions etc. Therefore, the Arudha of the 7th can only indicate the contacts that one will have. For such a contact to become the spouse, there should be a sambandha between the Lagnapada and A7. The type of sambandha will indicate where the contact will come from - ie., whether from office, neighbourhood or elsewhere as the signification would suggest. A7 will indicate other contacts also. Thus, in the overall perspective of dharma which is imbibed from the forefathers and passed on to the next generation as explained above, Upapada is more important to a horoscope ( to an individual) than the A7 which is merely a maya of his association with others. I hope I have cleared this to an extent and Sanjay ji may correct me if I am short of explaining certain other points or if they are wrong. Hare Rama Krishna !! Warm regards, Sarat. - Yasomatinandana das varahamihira Tuesday, September 19, 2000 6:46 AM [sri Guru] Upapada - ple-e-e-e-e-ase reply Dear Gurudev, Please accept my respectful obeisances. Jaya Jagannath! There are some questions I've been wondering about ever since I read the UPSJ first. They are about the Upapada. I would be very much obliged to you if you could explain them as this is a very important area in human life. Why it is the 12th house which Aruddha idicates marriage. Why 12th and not some other house? And if Aruddhas generally indiate illusions, externals and nonessencials concerned with the particular house then why the UP is so important? Why not just deal with the 7th house? your shishya, Yasomatinandana das OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2000 Report Share Posted September 19, 2000 Dear Yasomatinandana Prabhu, Jaya Jagannatha! Although your question was addressed to Sanjayji I will attempt to answer it since it seems like none attempted to do so for a while and of course Sanjayji will probably find it useful to add his comments. >Why it is the 12th house which Aruddha idicates marriage. Why 12th and not some >other house? Upapada is also called Gauna pada, and actually represents the blessings of the holy cow for the propagation of the family and is related to kula - family. It also indicates that which follows (anuchara) the person. A house that represents the person is Lagna and that which follows it is the house behind it or the 12th house. Traditionally in Vedic system wife is the one who always follows the husband and even walks behind him. That is why aruda pada of 12th house is among other things connected to spouse, like servants that come with spouse and several other things... >And if Aruddhas generally indiate illusions, externals and nonessencials concerned >with the particular house then why the UP is so important? Why not just deal with the >7th house? 7th house shows only physical relationships between man and woman. Upapada shows the inner nature of wife. Marriage is also a form of illusion because it exists only in the minds of the husband and wife, it doesn't really exists on physical level and hence it has to be seen from aruda pada which in this case is aruda pada of 12th house. Upapada is used not only for marriage but for renunciation too, moral of the person and the most important thing is that it shows the blessings for continuing one's linage, but as I mentioned other things can be seen from Upapada also. I hope that this helps. Hare Krishna, Dina-natha Das. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2000 Report Share Posted September 19, 2000 Dear Yasomatinandana Prabhu, Jaya Jagannatha! Although your question was addressed to Sanjayji I will attempt to answer it since it seems like none attempted to do so for a while and of course Sanjayji will probably find it useful to add his comments. >Why it is the 12th house which Aruddha idicates marriage. Why 12th and not some >other house? Upapada is also called Gauna pada, and actually represents the blessings of the holy cow for the propagation of the family and is related to kula or family. It also indicates that which follows (anuchara) the person. A house that represents the person is Lagna and that which follows it is the house behind it or the 12th house. Traditionally in Vedic system wife is the one who always follows the husband and even walks behind him. That is why aruda pada of 12th house is among other things connected to spouse, servants that come with spouse and several other things... >And if Aruddhas generally indiate illusions, externals and > nonessencials concerned with the particular house then why the UP is >so important? Why not just deal with the 7th house? 7th house shows only physical relationships between man and woman. Upapada shows the inner nature of wife. Marriage is also a form of illusion because it exists only in the minds of the husband and wife, it doesn't really exists on physical level and hence it has to be seen from aruda pada which in this case is aruda pada of 12th house. Upapada is used not only for marriage but for renunciation too, moral of the person can be seen from Upapada and the most important thing is that it shows the blessings for continuing one's linage, but as I mentioned other things can be seen from Upapada also. I hope that this helps. Hare Krishna, Dina-natha Das. ------------------------------ This Message was Powered by Xcel Communications Sign up for your FREE EMAIL account today at http://www.mailroom.com Give your FAX machine an email address http://www.faxroom.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2000 Report Share Posted September 19, 2000 The explanation re Upapada works for a male chart but cannot therefore by definition be symmetric and work for a female chart. Both cannot be followers! - Dina-natha Das varahamihira Tuesday, September 19, 2000 6:59 PM Re: [sri Guru] Upapada - ple-e-e-e-e-ase reply Dear Yasomatinandana Prabhu, Jaya Jagannatha! Although your question was addressed to Sanjayji I will attempt to answer it since it seems like none attempted to do so for a while and of course Sanjayji will probably find it useful to add his comments. >Why it is the 12th house which Aruddha idicates marriage. Why 12th and not some >other house? Upapada is also called Gauna pada, and actually represents the blessings of the holy cow for the propagation of the family and is related to kula - family. It also indicates that which follows (anuchara) the person. A house that represents the person is Lagna and that which follows it is the house behind it or the 12th house. Traditionally in Vedic system wife is the one who always follows the husband and even walks behind him. That is why aruda pada of 12th house is among other things connected to spouse, like servants that come with spouse and several other things... >And if Aruddhas generally indiate illusions, externals and nonessencials concerned >with the particular house then why the UP is so important? Why not just deal with the >7th house? 7th house shows only physical relationships between man and woman. Upapada shows the inner nature of wife. Marriage is also a form of illusion because it exists only in the minds of the husband and wife, it doesn't really exists on physical level and hence it has to be seen from aruda pada which in this case is aruda pada of 12th house. Upapada is used not only for marriage but for renunciation too, moral of the person and the most important thing is that it shows the blessings for continuing one's linage, but as I mentioned other things can be seen from Upapada also. I hope that this helps. Hare Krishna, Dina-natha Das. OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2000 Report Share Posted September 20, 2000 Namaste Dina-natha Prabhu, > Upapada is also called Gauna pada, and actually represents the > blessings of the holy cow for the propagation of the family and is > related to kula or family. It also indicates that which follows > (anuchara) the person. A house that represents the person is Lagna and > that which follows it is the house behind it or the 12th house. > Traditionally in Vedic system wife is the one who always follows the > husband and even walks behind him. That is why aruda pada of 12th house > is among other things connected to spouse, True, wife may follow husband and walk behind him. But I don't think that is the point. After all, we use the arudha pada of 12th to show the spouse in both male and female charts! So who walks first and who follows is not the point. Sarat has beautifully expanded on the nice reply you gave. His reply is extremely elegant and very insightful. Members may read it twice to understand all the points! The 12th shows one's evolution. It shows the blessings of the vamsa (lineage), which is part of one's evolution. That is why D-12 shows parents. The blessings of vamsa enjoyed by one are judged in this world by the kind of spouse one has. If one has a noble spouse, the world assumes that (s)he will beget noble progeny and that (s)he has the blessings of Maharshis, ancestors etc in that matter. If one has an unworthy wife, the world may think that the native lacks blessings of vamsa. Of course, this is only an illusion. For example, one may have the blessings of Maharshis and ancestors and one's lineage may flourish despite a cruel and mean wife. But the nature and background of spouse is what guides the world as it forms an impression about the blessings of Maharshis and ancestors towards a native. Yasomati-nandana Prabhu, I do not pretend to comprehend this issue completely, but I hope the above makes atleast *some* sense to you. I will be very happy if Sanjay or others correct me. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2000 Report Share Posted September 20, 2000 Namaste Narasimha, Jaya Jagannnatha! > True, wife may follow husband and walk behind him. But I don't > think that is the point. After all, we use the arudha pada of > 12th to show the spouse in both male and female charts! So who > walks first and who follows is not the point. Wife walking behind the husband is not a reason for Upapada being upapada, that was just analogy (maybe not the best one) to help illustrate the previous point that I also mention and that is that a house that represents the person is Lagna and that which follows it is the house behind it or the 12th house. > Sarat has beautifully expanded on the nice reply you gave. His > reply is extremely elegant and very insightful. Members may read > it twice to understand all the points! Yes, Sarat has expanded it very nicely. However I am still waiting for Sanjayji to throw in his 2 cents on the matter of upapada so that everyone can get full understanding of it. There is much more to say on Upapada than what 3 of us wrote. It is quite interesting. I gave one hint and that is that Upapada also deals with renunciation not only marriage. Hare Krishna, Dina-natha Das. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2000 Report Share Posted September 21, 2000 Dear Dinanath and Sarat Prabhus, Hare Krishna. Jaya Jagannath! Thank you for your kind clarifications. Two more questions. 1. I am a little confused as Dinanath Prabhu writes that the 12th signifies those who follow us, whereas Sarat Prabhu likns that with our predecessors or lineage. Is this a contradiction? 2. Why is the 2nd from UL determines the durability of marriate? Is it because the 2nd house signifies it's sustainence or just because the 2nd is a maraka house & kindest regards, Yasomatinandana das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2000 Report Share Posted September 21, 2000 Namaste Yasomati-nandana Prabhu, > Dear Dinanath and Sarat Prabhus, > Hare Krishna. Jaya Jagannath! > > Thank you for your kind clarifications. Two more questions. > > 1. I am a little confused as Dinanath Prabhu writes that > the 12th signifies those who follow us, whereas Sarat > Prabhu likns that with our predecessors or lineage. Is > this a contradiction? Dina-natha prabhu clarified later that he was only giving a loose analogy. The points of Sarat are sound. I hope you read my mail also. I tried to expand a little more on Sarat's reply and show why " arudha pada " is involved. If you somehow missed my mail, I'll send it to you privately. The logic of 12th showing one who follows and wife following husband were meant by Dina-natha prabhu as a loose analogy, as he clarified. However it is interesting to note that the same logic actually misled some people into starting a new theory. There is a section of Indian astrologers who define UL as the arudha of 12th/2nd in male/female charts! Some people went a little further and they defined UL as the arudha pada of the 12th/2nd based on odd/even lagna. However, this controversy is due to the imagination of some people and unneeded. UL is always the arudha of 12th for the reasons already mentioned. To clarify another point, the 12th house does not really show one who follows a native. > 2. Why is the 2nd from UL determines the durability of > marriate? Is it because the 2nd house signifies it's > sustainence or just because the 2nd is a maraka house & I saw in many charts that Narayana dasa of the 2nd and 7th from UL brings troubles in marriage (or even divorce), if those houses are afflicted. If the 3rd and 8th from UL are strong, then the marriage is saved. > kindest regards, > Yasomatinandana das May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2000 Report Share Posted September 22, 2000 Dear Narasimha Prabhu, Please accept my respetful obeisances. Jaya Jagannath! Thank you very much. I got all the mails and enjoyed them much. kindest regards, Yasomatinandana das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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