RE: #2 Palana Devata-Lakshmi

December 28, 2005

Shri Brahmadaru Smarami

Dear Lakshmi,

Undoubtedly Durga is rajasik and hence would be associated with Bhu Shakti. That is why I mentioned in my mail to Freedom, that palana devata can be both be sri or bhu shakti. In your chart Rahu is conjoined your ishta planet Moon; so naturally it will spring to the mind that Durga is the nature of the deity. However, in practice you have always maintained that Lalita Tripurasundari is your ishta. Perhaps if you take ishta planet Moon back into the rashi chart where it is conjoined Saturn and Jupiter in Sagittarius lagna. Tripura is said to carry parampara shakti, and Jupiter is definitely strong in lagna in its own sign! And that very same Jupiter is your palana devata.

Thakur's ishta Surya is conjoined Moon and Mercury aspected by that brilliant Saturn. Did you know that he worshipped Ma as Shodasi on the day of Phalaharini Kali Puja? Guruji is apparently doing some 'wow' stuff on Thakur and Swamiji for the remedies workshop!

....and I am no authority! Thats just a false arudha.

Best Regards,

Sarbani

lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:12 PMsohamsa Subject: RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Sarbani,

Sorry for jumping in, but the discussion is so very interesting, i just couldn't help it:--))

Ofcourse, Mother is all Love, but there are nuances and shades in the way she demonstrates it. She could cuddle and She could wallop too and she does both these things because She cares. Durga might be a softer version of Chamundi, but still I don't think you can call Her saattwik. She's more rajasik because She had manifested in response to the desire of the devas, in order to achieve a kshatriyan end. Infact, a couple of months ago I tried to do more Durga worship, because I keep seeing Her in dreams and since I am also running Rahu maha dasa, I thought i'd give it a try!! But, believe me, it had generated a very restless & uneasy feeling in me, so I had reverted to my earlier schedule. Do you think it happened because Jupiter and Sun are the key planets in my natal chart and I was indirectly strengthening Rahu, their arch enemy, through this worship? Perhaps Lalitha Tripura Sundari is more apt as my palana devata & ishta, because She corresponds to the Vishnu avatara of Vamana (Jupiter) who filled the Three worlds as Trivikrama.

In Thakur's chart, Saturn(his lagna lord) is just magnificent and so is Rahu, hence his worship of Mother in the form of Kali (Saturn)suited him perfectly and became a blessing for the world. So, probably it is the most powerful planet (s) and the overall tenor of the chart that influence the conscious/unconscious choice of the Devi Form.

Just my two cents because I hardly know any thing about Dasa Maha Vidyas and definitely would like to learn more from an authority like you.

Regards,

Lakshmi

Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote:

Shri Brahmadaru Smarami

Dear Narasimha,

Namaste. Actually you penned my very thoughts! You wrote: This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. This is what I wanted to say but did not get around to it. Mahavidyas impart Brahmagyana. That is why they are called maha vidya. I find it quite amusing to see people trapped in exploring their base energies for relief from material and physical problems. What a waste of sadhana!

You are very right in pointing out that all forms of the Mahavidyas are not Nila shakti. Kamalatmika, Bhuvaneswari and Tripurasundari stand out as exceptions with Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari being embodiments of Sri shakti. Although the Mahavidyas as a group represent Nila shakti. In the Devi Bhagavat and other puranas where the inception of the mahavidyas are described, it is said that Gouri got extremely angry on Shiva as the latter prevented her from attending Daksha's infamous yagna. Shiva ran from her, however whichever corner he ran to, a terrible form of the devi appeared. He ran helter skelter to the ten dikas, running away from one fearsome devi form to another. The ten devi forms in the ten dikas are the Dasa Mahavidyas. So Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari also took fearsome forms although they are not ugra rupas; that is why perhaps we tend to make the mistake. I remember Sanjayji saying, "don't ever make the mistake that Kamalatmika is a sweet, lotus lady. She is the most difficult of them all."

What I meant by saumya forms for palana devatas are other forms of the devi. Because of the word palana being used, the discussion on the list has been on Sri Shakti. But Saraswati as we worship her (and not Nila Saraswati who is quite different and a Tara shakti) even Durga and Jagaddhatri can fit the bill along with Annapurna and Lakshmi. So we can say Durga but not Chamunda; Lakshmi but not Kamalatmika etc. Kali per se appears ugra; even Dakshina Kali. As I wrote in my earlier mail a Kali sadhaka who has Saturn/Moon/Venus as the palana devata can safely assume Kali to be his/her palana devata. He would be anyways perceiving her as Karunamayi, the All Compassionate One, who looks after him. After all She is that depending on how we perceive Her.

Best Regards,

Sarbani

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] Monday, December 26, 2005 8:41 PMsohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata

Namaste Sarbani and others,

My 2 cents on this. Please ignore if it doesn't make sense...

As I understand, not all Dasa maha vidyas are forms of Nila shakti. Also, it is not a question of saumya vs ugra. Dasa maha vidyas not only include Kali and Chhinna Masta, but Kamala and Bhuvaneswari too! Even within one Mahavidya, there are several manifestations that are different. For example, Bhadra Kaali and Smasaana Kaali are considerably different.

I do agree with the reservations you expressed about Dasa Mahavidyas being prescribed as palana devatas. As per my little understanding of the Mother, Maha vidyas impart the most supreme knowledge, as the name implies. She is the Chetas that causes motion in Chit. She is the reason for our independent existence (without Chetas, we would have just been Chit). She is the one who can give us the highest knowledge, i.e. knowledge of the relationship between Chit and Chetas, how Chetas manifests and works and how we can go back to the original state of Chit. Mahavidyas give a perfect understanding of the nature of Chetas. This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.

To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. If you don't want to transcend Chetas, but want to be limited by it and want to manipulate it to apparently benefit your limited existence within it, there are other forms of Mother who can do that for you. Mahavidyas are relevant only when you want to transcend.

I hope more learned Devi bhaktas do not find my views too silly.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

sohamsa , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:>> Shri Brahmadaru Smarami> > Dear Freedom and Sanjayp,> > Sanjay Prabhakaran has specifically given the Dasa Mahavidyas for the palana> devatas. To the best of my knowledge, whether westerner or Indian, beginner> or advanced, the Dasa Mahavidyas are to be prescribed only under very> special circumstances and only when the jyotishi is sure that the Mahavidya> will not be misused or misunderstood. Dasa Mahavidyas help in rescuing the> native from deep distress and mire, when all other avenues fail. I have been> taught in my initial classes, that Mahavidya is to be rarely prescribed. Of> course, I see a different trend nowadays. Palana devata will naturally be> not one of the Mahavidyas, but a saumya rupa of the devi. Saumya may include> either Sri or Bhu shakti. On the other hand, if you meet a native who has> been a Kali sadhak for centuries, and his palana devata indicates Saturn or> Saturn/Moon associations, then one would obviously prescribe Kali as the> palana devata for such a native. Such a sadhaka would anyways not perceive> Kali as a nila shakti but as the All Compassionate Mother. > > So I think we look at saumya rupas whenever prescribing Devi mantras, unless> there are other indications or necessities in the chart. Palana devata> deities therefore can not only be forms of Lakshmi, but Saraswati, Durga,> Annapurna, Jagaddhatri etc.> > Best regards,> > Sarbani> > > > freedom [freedom@s...] > Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Hare Rama Krsna> > So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use> a Sri Shakti rupa? > > To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for> Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full> implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most> people associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay> Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. > > In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter> too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are> supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the> most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way,> isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining> purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana> devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless> that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much> more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional> charakaraka. > > Namah Sivaya> > > Sanjay Rath [guruji@s...]> Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please> correct me)> > It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is> more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and> nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered> to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to> be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. > > Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your> Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart> the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and> hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the> Palana devatä.> > From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana> devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more> mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has> advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of> naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri> SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162> -

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December 28, 2005

Om Gurave Namah Dear Sarbani, You are being modest. You do have a lot of knowledge of Dasa Maha Vidya and mantra shastra. And, I am really sad to miss out on all those wonderful sessions on remedial measures by Guruji. I hope the CDs come out soon so that I can listen to the lectures. Are you going to make VCDs? Btw, is Zoran going to bring CDs of serbia conference? I want to buy one set. Regards, LakshmiSarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Lakshmi, Undoubtedly Durga is rajasik and hence would be associated with Bhu Shakti. That is why I mentioned in my mail to Freedom, that palana devata can be both be sri or bhu shakti. In your chart Rahu is conjoined your ishta planet Moon; so naturally it will spring to the mind that Durga is the nature of the deity. However, in practice you have always maintained that Lalita Tripurasundari is your ishta. Perhaps if you take ishta planet Moon back into the rashi chart where it is conjoined Saturn and Jupiter in Sagittarius lagna. Tripura is said to carry parampara shakti, and Jupiter is definitely strong in lagna in its own sign! And that very same Jupiter is your palana

devata. Thakur's ishta Surya is conjoined Moon and Mercury aspected by that brilliant Saturn. Did you know that he worshipped Ma as Shodasi on the day of Phalaharini Kali Puja? Guruji is apparently doing some 'wow' stuff on Thakur and Swamiji for the remedies workshop! ...and I am no authority! Thats just a false arudha. Best

Regards, Sarbani lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:12 PMsohamsa Subject: RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Om Gurave Namah Dear Sarbani, Sorry for jumping in, but the discussion is so very interesting, i just couldn't help it:--)) Ofcourse, Mother is all Love, but there are nuances and shades in the way

she demonstrates it. She could cuddle and She could wallop too and she does both these things because She cares. Durga might be a softer version of Chamundi, but still I don't think you can call Her saattwik. She's more rajasik because She had manifested in response to the desire of the devas, in order to achieve a kshatriyan end. Infact, a couple of months ago I tried to do more Durga worship, because I keep seeing Her in dreams and since I am also running Rahu maha dasa, I thought i'd give it a try!! But, believe me, it had generated a very restless & uneasy feeling in me, so I had reverted to my earlier schedule. Do you think it happened because Jupiter and Sun are the key planets in my natal chart and I was indirectly strengthening Rahu, their arch enemy, through this worship? Perhaps Lalitha Tripura Sundari is more apt as my palana devata & ishta, because She corresponds to the

Vishnu avatara of Vamana (Jupiter) who filled the Three worlds as Trivikrama. In Thakur's chart, Saturn(his lagna lord) is just magnificent and so is Rahu, hence his worship of Mother in the form of Kali (Saturn)suited him perfectly and became a blessing for the world. So, probably it is the most powerful planet (s) and the overall tenor of the chart that influence the conscious/unconscious choice of the Devi Form. Just my two cents because

I hardly know any thing about Dasa Maha Vidyas and definitely would like to learn more from an authority like you. Regards, Lakshmi Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Narasimha, Namaste. Actually you penned my very thoughts! You wrote: This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. This is what I wanted to say but did not get around to it. Mahavidyas

impart Brahmagyana. That is why they are called maha vidya. I find it quite amusing to see people trapped in exploring their base energies for relief from material and physical problems. What a waste of sadhana! You are very right in pointing out that all forms of the Mahavidyas are not Nila shakti. Kamalatmika, Bhuvaneswari and Tripurasundari stand out as exceptions with Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari being embodiments of Sri shakti. Although the Mahavidyas as a group represent Nila shakti. In the Devi Bhagavat and other puranas where the inception of the mahavidyas are described, it is said that Gouri got extremely angry on Shiva as the latter prevented her from attending Daksha's infamous yagna. Shiva ran from her,

however whichever corner he ran to, a terrible form of the devi appeared. He ran helter skelter to the ten dikas, running away from one fearsome devi form to another. The ten devi forms in the ten dikas are the Dasa Mahavidyas. So Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari also took fearsome forms although they are not ugra rupas; that is why perhaps we tend to make the mistake. I remember Sanjayji saying, "don't ever make the mistake that Kamalatmika is a sweet, lotus lady. She is the most difficult of them all." What I meant by saumya forms for palana devatas are other forms of the devi. Because of the word palana being used, the discussion on the list has been on Sri Shakti. But Saraswati as we worship her (and not Nila Saraswati who

is quite different and a Tara shakti) even Durga and Jagaddhatri can fit the bill along with Annapurna and Lakshmi. So we can say Durga but not Chamunda; Lakshmi but not Kamalatmika etc. Kali per se appears ugra; even Dakshina Kali. As I wrote in my earlier mail a Kali sadhaka who has Saturn/Moon/Venus as the palana devata can safely assume Kali to be his/her palana devata. He would be anyways perceiving her as Karunamayi, the All Compassionate One, who looks after him. After all She is that depending on how we perceive Her. Best Regards, Sarbani Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] Monday, December 26, 2005 8:41 PMsohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata Namaste Sarbani and others, My 2 cents on this. Please ignore if it doesn't make sense... As I understand, not all Dasa maha vidyas are forms of Nila shakti. Also, it is not a question of saumya vs ugra. Dasa maha vidyas not only include Kali and Chhinna Masta, but Kamala and Bhuvaneswari too! Even within one Mahavidya, there are several manifestations that are

different. For example, Bhadra Kaali and Smasaana Kaali are considerably different. I do agree with the reservations you expressed about Dasa Mahavidyas being prescribed as palana devatas. As per my little understanding of the Mother, Maha vidyas impart the most supreme knowledge, as the name implies. She is the Chetas that causes motion in Chit. She is the reason for our independent existence (without Chetas, we would have just been Chit). She is the one who can give us the highest knowledge, i.e. knowledge of the relationship between Chit and Chetas, how Chetas manifests and works and how we can go back to the original state of Chit. Mahavidyas give a perfect understanding of the nature of Chetas. This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha. To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits

is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. If you don't want to transcend Chetas, but want to be limited by it and want to manipulate it to apparently benefit your limited existence within it, there are other forms of Mother who can do that for you. Mahavidyas are relevant only when you want to transcend. I hope more learned Devi bhaktas do not find my views too silly. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):

http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- sohamsa , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:>> Shri Brahmadaru Smarami> > Dear Freedom and Sanjayp,> > Sanjay Prabhakaran has specifically given the Dasa Mahavidyas for the palana> devatas. To the best of my knowledge, whether westerner or Indian, beginner> or advanced, the Dasa Mahavidyas are to be

prescribed only under very> special circumstances and only when the jyotishi is sure that the Mahavidya> will not be misused or misunderstood. Dasa Mahavidyas help in rescuing the> native from deep distress and mire, when all other avenues fail. I have been> taught in my initial classes, that Mahavidya is to be rarely prescribed. Of> course, I see a different trend nowadays. Palana devata will naturally be> not one of the Mahavidyas, but a saumya rupa of the devi. Saumya may include> either Sri or Bhu shakti. On the other hand, if you meet a native who has> been a Kali sadhak for centuries, and his palana devata indicates Saturn or> Saturn/Moon associations, then one would obviously prescribe Kali as the> palana devata for such a native. Such a sadhaka would anyways not perceive> Kali as a nila shakti but as the All Compassionate Mother. > > So I think we look at saumya rupas whenever

prescribing Devi mantras, unless> there are other indications or necessities in the chart. Palana devata> deities therefore can not only be forms of Lakshmi, but Saraswati, Durga,> Annapurna, Jagaddhatri etc.> > Best regards,> > Sarbani> > > > freedom [freedom@s...] > Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Hare Rama Krsna> > So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use> a Sri Shakti rupa? > > To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for> Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full> implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most> people associate the

graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay> Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. > > In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter> too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are> supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the> most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way,> isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining> purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana> devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless> that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much> more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional> charakaraka. > > Namah Sivaya> > > Sanjay Rath

[guruji@s...]> Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please> correct me)> > It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is> more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and> nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered> to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to> be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. > > Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your> Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart> the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same

indications, and> hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the> Palana devatä.> > From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana> devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more> mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has> advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of> naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri> SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162>

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December 28, 2005

SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAM AUM GURUBYO NAMAH Dear Sarbani & Lakshmi, Pranams. May i write a few lines!! Be it Satwa, Rajas, Tamas Mother is beyond these three. Rahu is not Durga but Durga Mata is kind enough to shrink herself to the level of a graha because you had invited her while you were in the grip of Rahu. The word graha indicates that you are in the clutches. How to get one out of the grip of a graha? Mother being karunya personified extends herself by manifesting before the heart soaked in Rahu and pulls one out. This is the case with all the grahas. When the child makes mischief mother takes up a scale just to stop the kid from making further trouble. The child may think that mother is ferocious(rajasic/tamasic)! It feels that it should not ask mother anything at that point of time and quickly obeys the command of Mother. After some time it places its request to mother which mother

grants. Now the child thinks that Mother is so sweet!! The simplest form of Mantra is OM MATRE NAMAH. You may stand/sit before any Moorthy/vigraha and simply chant OM MATRE NAMAH. As regards Maha vidyas the very word vidya connote knowledge. This knowledge is not any attainment of some degree. It is complete transformation. The 4th from Atmakaraka in navamsa indicates Mahavidya. The 4th is infact the 64th navamsa which indicates the transformation factor. Of all the discovery it is the self discovery which is the best and of all the wealths knowledge is the best. Mahavidya aims at jeeva to be sensitive of being an amsa of the para and ultimately making the para to manifest. When it is a question of prayer both the eyes may be closed, but when it is question of knowledge then the third needs to be opened up is it not?! May Mother Bless. Warm regards. Astrologically & spiritually

yours, p.s.ramanarayanan.Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Lakshmi, Undoubtedly Durga is rajasik and hence would be associated with Bhu Shakti. That is why I mentioned in my

mail to Freedom, that palana devata can be both be sri or bhu shakti. In your chart Rahu is conjoined your ishta planet Moon; so naturally it will spring to the mind that Durga is the nature of the deity. However, in practice you have always maintained that Lalita Tripurasundari is your ishta. Perhaps if you take ishta planet Moon back into the rashi chart where it is conjoined Saturn and Jupiter in Sagittarius lagna. Tripura is said to carry parampara shakti, and Jupiter is definitely strong in lagna in its own sign! And that very same Jupiter is your palana devata. Thakur's ishta Surya is conjoined Moon and Mercury aspected by that brilliant Saturn. Did you know that he worshipped Ma as Shodasi on the day of Phalaharini Kali Puja?

Guruji is apparently doing some 'wow' stuff on Thakur and Swamiji for the remedies workshop! ...and I am no authority! Thats just a false arudha. Best Regards, Sarbani lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:12 PMsohamsa Subject: RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Om Gurave Namah Dear Sarbani, Sorry for jumping in, but the discussion is so very interesting, i just couldn't help it:--)) Ofcourse, Mother is all Love, but there are nuances and shades in the way she demonstrates it. She could cuddle and She could wallop too and she does both these things because She cares. Durga might be a softer version of Chamundi, but still I don't think you can call Her saattwik. She's more rajasik because She had manifested in response to the desire of the devas, in order to achieve a kshatriyan end.

Infact, a couple of months ago I tried to do more Durga worship, because I keep seeing Her in dreams and since I am also running Rahu maha dasa, I thought i'd give it a try!! But, believe me, it had generated a very restless & uneasy feeling in me, so I had reverted to my earlier schedule. Do you think it happened because Jupiter and Sun are the key planets in my natal chart and I was indirectly strengthening Rahu, their arch enemy, through this worship? Perhaps Lalitha Tripura Sundari is more apt as my palana devata & ishta, because She corresponds to the Vishnu avatara of Vamana (Jupiter) who filled the Three worlds as Trivikrama. In Thakur's chart, Saturn(his lagna lord) is just magnificent and so is Rahu, hence his worship of Mother in the form of Kali (Saturn)suited him perfectly and became a blessing for the world. So, probably it is the most powerful planet (s) and the overall tenor of the chart that influence the conscious/unconscious choice of the Devi Form. Just my two cents because I hardly know any thing about Dasa Maha Vidyas and definitely would like to learn more from an authority like you. Regards, Lakshmi Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Narasimha, Namaste. Actually you penned my very thoughts! You wrote: This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. This is what I wanted to say but did not get around to it. Mahavidyas impart Brahmagyana. That is why they are called maha vidya. I find it quite amusing to see people trapped in exploring their base energies for relief from material and

physical problems. What a waste of sadhana! You are very right in pointing out that all forms of the Mahavidyas are not Nila shakti. Kamalatmika, Bhuvaneswari and Tripurasundari stand out as exceptions with Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari being embodiments of Sri shakti. Although the Mahavidyas as a group represent Nila shakti. In the Devi Bhagavat and other puranas where the inception of the mahavidyas are described, it is said that Gouri got extremely angry on Shiva as the latter prevented her from attending Daksha's infamous yagna. Shiva ran from her, however whichever corner he ran to, a terrible form of the devi appeared. He ran helter skelter to the ten dikas,

running away from one fearsome devi form to another. The ten devi forms in the ten dikas are the Dasa Mahavidyas. So Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari also took fearsome forms although they are not ugra rupas; that is why perhaps we tend to make the mistake. I remember Sanjayji saying, "don't ever make the mistake that Kamalatmika is a sweet, lotus lady. She is the most difficult of them all." What I meant by saumya forms for palana devatas are other forms of the devi. Because of the word palana being used, the discussion on the list has been on Sri Shakti. But Saraswati as we worship her (and not Nila Saraswati who is quite different and a Tara shakti) even Durga

and Jagaddhatri can fit the bill along with Annapurna and Lakshmi. So we can say Durga but not Chamunda; Lakshmi but not Kamalatmika etc. Kali per se appears ugra; even Dakshina Kali. As I wrote in my earlier mail a Kali sadhaka who has Saturn/Moon/Venus as the palana devata can safely assume Kali to be his/her palana devata. He would be anyways perceiving her as Karunamayi, the All Compassionate One, who looks after him. After all She is that depending on how we perceive Her. Best Regards, Sarbani Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] Monday, December 26, 2005 8:41 PMsohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata Namaste Sarbani and others, My 2 cents on this. Please ignore if it doesn't make sense... As I understand, not all Dasa maha vidyas are forms of Nila shakti. Also, it is not a question of saumya vs ugra. Dasa maha vidyas not only include Kali

and Chhinna Masta, but Kamala and Bhuvaneswari too! Even within one Mahavidya, there are several manifestations that are different. For example, Bhadra Kaali and Smasaana Kaali are considerably different. I do agree with the reservations you expressed about Dasa Mahavidyas being prescribed as palana devatas. As per my little understanding of the Mother, Maha vidyas impart the most supreme knowledge, as the name implies. She is the Chetas that causes motion in Chit. She is the reason for our independent existence (without Chetas, we would have just been Chit). She is the one who can give us the highest knowledge, i.e. knowledge of the relationship between Chit and Chetas, how Chetas manifests and works and how we can go back to the original state of Chit. Mahavidyas give a perfect understanding of the nature of Chetas. This is the

highest knowledge, because it enables moksha. To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. If you don't want to transcend Chetas, but want to be limited by it and want to manipulate it to apparently benefit your limited existence within it, there are other forms of Mother who can do that for you. Mahavidyas are relevant only when you want to transcend. I hope more learned Devi bhaktas do not find my views too silly. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- sohamsa , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:>> Shri Brahmadaru Smarami> > Dear Freedom and Sanjayp,> > Sanjay Prabhakaran has specifically given the Dasa Mahavidyas for the palana> devatas. To the best of my knowledge, whether westerner or Indian, beginner> or advanced, the Dasa Mahavidyas are to be prescribed only under very> special circumstances and only when the jyotishi

is sure that the Mahavidya> will not be misused or misunderstood. Dasa Mahavidyas help in rescuing the> native from deep distress and mire, when all other avenues fail. I have been> taught in my initial classes, that Mahavidya is to be rarely prescribed. Of> course, I see a different trend nowadays. Palana devata will naturally be> not one of the Mahavidyas, but a saumya rupa of the devi. Saumya may include> either Sri or Bhu shakti. On the other hand, if you meet a native who has> been a Kali sadhak for centuries, and his palana devata indicates Saturn or> Saturn/Moon associations, then one would obviously prescribe Kali as the> palana devata for such a native. Such a sadhaka would anyways not perceive> Kali as a nila shakti but as the All Compassionate Mother. > > So I think we look at saumya rupas whenever prescribing Devi mantras, unless>

there are other indications or necessities in the chart. Palana devata> deities therefore can not only be forms of Lakshmi, but Saraswati, Durga,> Annapurna, Jagaddhatri etc.> > Best regards,> > Sarbani> > > > freedom [freedom@s...] > Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Hare Rama Krsna> > So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use> a Sri Shakti rupa? > > To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for> Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full> implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most> people

associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay> Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. > > In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter> too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are> supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the> most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way,> isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining> purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana> devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless> that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much> more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional> charakaraka. > > Namah Sivaya> >

> Sanjay Rath [guruji@s...]> Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please> correct me)> > It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is> more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and> nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered> to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to> be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. > > Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your> Karakamsa and hence they also represent

your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart> the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and> hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the> Palana devatä.> > From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana> devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more> mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has> advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of> naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri> SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162> - PhotosRing in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.

December 28, 2005

Om Gurave Namah Namaste Ram, It is very nice to see your response. You are very right that Mother(for that matter all Deities) is basically nirguna and it is our need which arrogates a guna to Her. The need of Devas gave Mother that "rajasik" tint as Durga! I am sure that you know the line "Sahasra dala padmastha sarva varnopa shobhitaa" from Lalitha Sahasranaamam. As Prakriti personified, Mother is full of colours and infinite variety is Her norm. During the course of Bhagavadgita, Sri Krishna revealed His awesome infinite cosmic form to Arjuna, yet Arjuna begged Bhagavan to resume the form of his dear old friend, whom he had grown to love over the years. Arjuna's entreaty is more a reflection of his attachment. Sri Ramakrishna had exhaustively experienced the entire spectrum of spiritual sadhana, yet the Enlightened Soul remained fiercely attached to Mother's manifestation

as Kali. Likewise our discussion was centred on exploring personal compatibility and preference of the forms of Devi, who is both saguna and nirguna. She's Shodasi and is capable of an intriguing mix of saguna & nirguna. Incidentally, I feel that since both bhakti and moksha indicate jala tattwa, the deity we relate to, does carry a remote resemblence to our selves, in terms of disposition. She/He is like a Higher Self. At the level of nirgunopasana (paraa state) We are Mother or the attribute-less Brahman, is it not? Where is the difference? So, till we reach that state of liberation, our worship and spiritual aspirations/longings continue to be based on guna, hence the discussion. As long as the manah exists, so do the gunas!! Thanks for the lovely note on Mahavidyas. I have a lot to learn in this direction. I have an academic

question. In my chart, the 4th from Atmakaraka is Scorpio, which is the navamsa lagna and is ruled by Atmakaraka. So which would be the form I need to worship? Will not such a worship (of deity related to AK) damage the cause of moksha, which is the true end of any transformation? Looking forward to your reply, Regards, Lakshmi rama narayanan <sree88ganesha wrote: SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAMAUM GURUBYO NAMAHDear Sarbani & Lakshmi,Pranams. May i write a few lines!! Be it Satwa, Rajas, Tamas Mother is beyond these three. Rahu is not Durga but Durga Mata is kind enough to shrink herself to the level of a graha because you had

invited her while you were in the grip of Rahu. The word graha indicates that you are in the clutches. How to get one out of the grip of a graha? Mother being karunya personified extends herself by manifesting before the heart soaked in Rahu and pulls one out. This is the case with all the grahas.When the child makes mischief mother takes up a scale just to stop the kid from making further trouble. The child may think that mother is ferocious(rajasic/tamasic)! It feels that it should not ask mother anything at that point of time and quickly obeys the command of Mother. After some time it places its request to mother which mother grants. Now the child thinks that Mother is so sweet!!The simplest form of Mantra is OM MATRE NAMAH. You may stand/sit before any Moorthy/vigraha and simply chant OM MATRE NAMAH.As regards Maha vidyas the very word vidya connote knowledge. This knowledge is not any attainment of some degree. It is

complete transformation. The 4th from Atmakaraka in navamsa indicates Mahavidya. The 4th is infact the 64th navamsa which indicates the transformation factor. Of all the discovery it is the self discovery which is the best and of all the wealths knowledge is the best. Mahavidya aims at jeeva to be sensitive of being an amsa of the para and ultimately making the para to manifest.When it is a question of prayer both the eyes may be closed, but when it is question of knowledge then the third needs to be opened up is it not?!May Mother Bless.Warm regards.Astrologically & spiritually yours,p.s.ramanarayanan.Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Lakshmi, Undoubtedly Durga is rajasik and hence would be associated with Bhu Shakti. That is why I mentioned in my mail to Freedom, that palana devata can be both be sri or bhu shakti. In your chart Rahu is conjoined your ishta planet Moon; so naturally it will spring to the mind that Durga is the nature of the deity. However, in practice you have always maintained that Lalita Tripurasundari is your ishta. Perhaps if you take ishta planet Moon back into the rashi chart where it is conjoined Saturn and Jupiter in Sagittarius lagna. Tripura is said to carry parampara shakti, and Jupiter is definitely

strong in lagna in its own sign! And that very same Jupiter is your palana devata. Thakur's ishta Surya is conjoined Moon and Mercury aspected by that brilliant Saturn. Did you know that he worshipped Ma as Shodasi on the day of Phalaharini Kali Puja? Guruji is apparently doing some 'wow' stuff on Thakur and Swamiji for the remedies workshop! ...and I am no authority! Thats just a false arudha. Best Regards, Sarbani lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:12 PMsohamsa Subject: RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Om Gurave Namah Dear Sarbani, Sorry for jumping in, but the discussion is so very interesting, i just couldn't help it:--)) Ofcourse, Mother is all Love, but there are nuances and shades in the

way she demonstrates it. She could cuddle and She could wallop too and she does both these things because She cares. Durga might be a softer version of Chamundi, but still I don't think you can call Her saattwik. She's more rajasik because She had manifested in response to the desire of the devas, in order to achieve a kshatriyan end. Infact, a couple of months ago I tried to do more Durga worship, because I keep seeing Her in dreams and since I am also running Rahu maha dasa, I thought i'd give it a try!! But, believe me, it had generated a very restless & uneasy feeling in me, so I had reverted to my earlier schedule. Do you think it happened because Jupiter and Sun are the key planets in my natal chart and I was indirectly strengthening Rahu, their arch enemy, through this worship? Perhaps Lalitha Tripura Sundari is more apt as my palana devata & ishta, because She corresponds to the

Vishnu avatara of Vamana (Jupiter) who filled the Three worlds as Trivikrama. In Thakur's chart, Saturn(his lagna lord) is just magnificent and so is Rahu, hence his worship of Mother in the form of Kali (Saturn)suited him perfectly and became a blessing for the world. So, probably it is the most powerful planet (s) and the overall tenor of the chart that influence the conscious/unconscious choice of the Devi Form. Just my two cents because

I hardly know any thing about Dasa Maha Vidyas and definitely would like to learn more from an authority like you. Regards, Lakshmi Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Narasimha, Namaste. Actually you penned my very thoughts! You wrote: This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. This is what I wanted to say but did not get around to it.

Mahavidyas impart Brahmagyana. That is why they are called maha vidya. I find it quite amusing to see people trapped in exploring their base energies for relief from material and physical problems. What a waste of sadhana! You are very right in pointing out that all forms of the Mahavidyas are not Nila shakti. Kamalatmika, Bhuvaneswari and Tripurasundari stand out as exceptions with Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari being embodiments of Sri shakti. Although the Mahavidyas as a group represent Nila shakti. In the Devi Bhagavat and other puranas where the inception of the mahavidyas are described, it is said that Gouri got extremely angry on Shiva as the latter prevented her from attending Daksha's infamous yagna. Shiva ran

from her, however whichever corner he ran to, a terrible form of the devi appeared. He ran helter skelter to the ten dikas, running away from one fearsome devi form to another. The ten devi forms in the ten dikas are the Dasa Mahavidyas. So Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari also took fearsome forms although they are not ugra rupas; that is why perhaps we tend to make the mistake. I remember Sanjayji saying, "don't ever make the mistake that Kamalatmika is a sweet, lotus lady. She is the most difficult of them all." What I meant by saumya forms for palana devatas are other forms of the devi. Because of the word palana being used, the discussion on the list has been on Sri Shakti. But Saraswati as we worship her (and not Nila

Saraswati who is quite different and a Tara shakti) even Durga and Jagaddhatri can fit the bill along with Annapurna and Lakshmi. So we can say Durga but not Chamunda; Lakshmi but not Kamalatmika etc. Kali per se appears ugra; even Dakshina Kali. As I wrote in my earlier mail a Kali sadhaka who has Saturn/Moon/Venus as the palana devata can safely assume Kali to be his/her palana devata. He would be anyways perceiving her as Karunamayi, the All Compassionate One, who looks after him. After all She is that depending on how we perceive Her. Best Regards, Sarbani Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] Monday, December 26, 2005 8:41 PMsohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata Namaste Sarbani and others, My 2 cents on this. Please ignore if it doesn't make sense... As I understand, not all Dasa maha vidyas are forms of Nila shakti. Also, it is not a question of saumya vs ugra. Dasa maha vidyas not only include Kali and Chhinna Masta, but Kamala and Bhuvaneswari too! Even within one Mahavidya, there

are several manifestations that are different. For example, Bhadra Kaali and Smasaana Kaali are considerably different. I do agree with the reservations you expressed about Dasa Mahavidyas being prescribed as palana devatas. As per my little understanding of the Mother, Maha vidyas impart the most supreme knowledge, as the name implies. She is the Chetas that causes motion in Chit. She is the reason for our independent existence (without Chetas, we would have just been Chit). She is the one who can give us the highest knowledge, i.e. knowledge of the relationship between Chit and Chetas, how Chetas manifests and works and how we can go back to the original state of Chit. Mahavidyas give a perfect understanding of the nature of Chetas. This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha. To ask

Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. If you don't want to transcend Chetas, but want to be limited by it and want to manipulate it to apparently benefit your limited existence within it, there are other forms of Mother who can do that for you. Mahavidyas are relevant only when you want to transcend. I hope more learned Devi bhaktas do not find my views too silly. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- sohamsa , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:>> Shri Brahmadaru Smarami> > Dear Freedom and Sanjayp,> > Sanjay Prabhakaran has specifically given the Dasa Mahavidyas for the palana> devatas. To the best of my knowledge, whether westerner or Indian, beginner> or advanced, the Dasa Mahavidyas are to be prescribed only under very> special circumstances and only when the jyotishi is sure that the Mahavidya> will not be misused or misunderstood. Dasa Mahavidyas help in rescuing the> native from deep distress and mire, when all other avenues fail. I have been> taught in my initial classes, that Mahavidya is to be rarely prescribed. Of> course, I see a different trend nowadays. Palana devata will naturally be> not one of the Mahavidyas, but a saumya rupa of the devi.

Saumya may include> either Sri or Bhu shakti. On the other hand, if you meet a native who has> been a Kali sadhak for centuries, and his palana devata indicates Saturn or> Saturn/Moon associations, then one would obviously prescribe Kali as the> palana devata for such a native. Such a sadhaka would anyways not perceive> Kali as a nila shakti but as the All Compassionate Mother. > > So I think we look at saumya rupas whenever prescribing Devi mantras, unless> there are other indications or necessities in the chart. Palana devata> deities therefore can not only be forms of Lakshmi, but Saraswati, Durga,> Annapurna, Jagaddhatri etc.> > Best regards,> > Sarbani> > > > freedom [freedom@s...] > Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Hare Rama Krsna> > So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use> a Sri Shakti rupa? > > To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for> Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full> implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most> people associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay> Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. > > In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter> too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are> supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the> most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same

way,> isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining> purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana> devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless> that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much> more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional> charakaraka. > > Namah Sivaya> > > Sanjay Rath [guruji@s...]> Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please> correct me)> > It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is> more

correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and> nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered> to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to> be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. > > Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your> Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart> the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and> hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the> Palana devatä.> > From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana> devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more> mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has> advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver

of> naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri> SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162> - PhotosRing in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events,

holidays, whatever. Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.

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December 29, 2005

SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAM AUM GURUBYO NAMAH Dear Lakshmi, Namaste. Sorry for not being able to reply/respond immediately and thank you for the response. Mars is placed alongwith Sun in 10th in navamsa. This combination is akin to the combination of Venus and Buda in swamsa!!! This gives hint about rajasic clouds sweeping the dharmic ideals. MATA BAGALAMUKHI can bring about a stunning change if worshipped with firm faith. The expression of Bagala makes others expressionless. She is called as Bagala as per Agama and as Valga as per Nigama. She manifested before Lord Vishnu during a night when Tuesday shook hands with Chaturdashi. She represents Brahmaastra. Think for a second the Brahmaastra used by Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi. He put forth the simple question "who am I" which brought forth the stunning effect of immediate silence. Think for a second the manifestation of faith in the answer(A BIG "YES") given by Prahalada to

Hiranyakashipu when he was asked as to whether Lord Vishnu was in the pillar. Think for a second the stunning effect of the manifestation of Lord from the Pillar. That electric force technically known as 'atharva sakthi' is Bagala. Her beauty can leave you speechless. You need have no fears as to Mars being AK and that the worship of the devatha related to Mars may harm you. The real 'kuja sthambana' can be realised in the worship of Bagalamukhi. Best wishes. May Mother Bless. Astrologically & spiritually yours, p.s.ramanarayanan.lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: Om Gurave Namah Namaste Ram, It is very nice to see your response. You are very right that Mother(for that matter all Deities) is basically

nirguna and it is our need which arrogates a guna to Her. The need of Devas gave Mother that "rajasik" tint as Durga! I am sure that you know the line "Sahasra dala padmastha sarva varnopa shobhitaa" from Lalitha Sahasranaamam. As Prakriti personified, Mother is full of colours and infinite variety is Her norm. During the course of Bhagavadgita, Sri Krishna revealed His awesome infinite cosmic form to Arjuna, yet Arjuna begged Bhagavan to resume the form of his dear old friend, whom he had grown to love over the years. Arjuna's entreaty is more a reflection of his attachment. Sri Ramakrishna had exhaustively experienced the entire spectrum of spiritual sadhana, yet the Enlightened Soul remained fiercely attached to Mother's manifestation as Kali. Likewise our discussion was centred on exploring personal compatibility and preference of the forms of Devi, who is both saguna and nirguna. She's Shodasi

and is capable of an intriguing mix of saguna & nirguna. Incidentally, I feel that since both bhakti and moksha indicate jala tattwa, the deity we relate to, does carry a remote resemblence to our selves, in terms of disposition. She/He is like a Higher Self. At the level of nirgunopasana (paraa state) We are Mother or the attribute-less Brahman, is it not? Where is the difference? So, till we reach that state of liberation, our worship and spiritual aspirations/longings continue to be based on guna, hence the discussion. As long as the manah exists, so do the gunas!! Thanks for the lovely note on Mahavidyas. I have a lot to learn in this direction. I have an academic question. In my chart, the 4th from Atmakaraka is Scorpio, which is the navamsa lagna and is ruled by Atmakaraka. So which would be the form I need to worship? Will not such a

worship (of deity related to AK) damage the cause of moksha, which is the true end of any transformation? Looking forward to your reply, Regards, Lakshmi rama narayanan <sree88ganesha wrote: SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAMAUM GURUBYO NAMAHDear Sarbani & Lakshmi,Pranams. May i write a few lines!! Be it Satwa, Rajas, Tamas Mother is beyond these three. Rahu is not Durga but Durga Mata is kind enough to shrink herself to the level of a graha because you had invited her while you were in the grip of Rahu. The word graha indicates that you are in the clutches. How to get one out of the grip of a graha? Mother

being karunya personified extends herself by manifesting before the heart soaked in Rahu and pulls one out. This is the case with all the grahas.When the child makes mischief mother takes up a scale just to stop the kid from making further trouble. The child may think that mother is ferocious(rajasic/tamasic)! It feels that it should not ask mother anything at that point of time and quickly obeys the command of Mother. After some time it places its request to mother which mother grants. Now the child thinks that Mother is so sweet!!The simplest form of Mantra is OM MATRE NAMAH. You may stand/sit before any Moorthy/vigraha and simply chant OM MATRE NAMAH.As regards Maha vidyas the very word vidya connote knowledge. This knowledge is not any attainment of some degree. It is complete transformation. The 4th from Atmakaraka in navamsa indicates Mahavidya. The 4th is infact the 64th navamsa which indicates the

transformation factor. Of all the discovery it is the self discovery which is the best and of all the wealths knowledge is the best. Mahavidya aims at jeeva to be sensitive of being an amsa of the para and ultimately making the para to manifest.When it is a question of prayer both the eyes may be closed, but when it is question of knowledge then the third needs to be opened up is it not?!May Mother Bless.Warm regards.Astrologically & spiritually yours,p.s.ramanarayanan.Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Lakshmi, Undoubtedly Durga is rajasik and hence would be associated with Bhu Shakti. That is why I mentioned in my mail to Freedom, that palana devata can be both be sri or bhu shakti. In your chart Rahu is conjoined your ishta planet Moon; so naturally it will spring to the mind that Durga is the nature of the deity. However, in practice you have always maintained that Lalita Tripurasundari is your ishta. Perhaps if you take ishta planet Moon back into the rashi chart where it is conjoined Saturn and Jupiter in Sagittarius lagna. Tripura is said to carry parampara shakti, and Jupiter is definitely strong in lagna in its own sign! And that very same Jupiter is

your palana devata. Thakur's ishta Surya is conjoined Moon and Mercury aspected by that brilliant Saturn. Did you know that he worshipped Ma as Shodasi on the day of Phalaharini Kali Puja? Guruji is apparently doing some 'wow' stuff on Thakur and Swamiji for the remedies workshop! ...and I am no authority! Thats just a false arudha. Best Regards, Sarbani lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:12 PMsohamsa Subject: RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Om

Gurave Namah Dear Sarbani, Sorry for jumping in, but the discussion is so very interesting, i just couldn't help it:--)) Ofcourse, Mother is all

Love, but there are nuances and shades in the way she demonstrates it. She could cuddle and She could wallop too and she does both these things because She cares. Durga might be a softer version of Chamundi, but still I don't think you can call Her saattwik. She's more rajasik because She had manifested in response to the desire of the devas, in order to achieve a kshatriyan end. Infact, a couple of months ago I tried to do more Durga worship, because I keep seeing Her in dreams and since I am also running Rahu maha dasa, I thought i'd give it a try!! But, believe me, it had generated a very restless & uneasy feeling in me, so I had reverted to my earlier schedule. Do you think it happened because Jupiter and Sun are the key planets in my natal chart and I was indirectly strengthening Rahu, their arch enemy, through this worship? Perhaps Lalitha Tripura Sundari is more apt as my palana

devata & ishta, because She corresponds to the Vishnu avatara of Vamana (Jupiter) who filled the Three worlds as Trivikrama. In Thakur's chart, Saturn(his lagna lord) is just magnificent and so is Rahu, hence his worship of Mother in the form of Kali (Saturn)suited him perfectly and became a blessing for the world. So, probably it is the most powerful planet (s) and the overall tenor of the chart that influence the conscious/unconscious choice of the Devi Form. Just my two cents because I hardly know any thing about Dasa Maha Vidyas and definitely would like to learn more from an authority like you. Regards, Lakshmi Sarbani Sarkar

<sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Narasimha, Namaste. Actually you penned my very thoughts! You wrote: This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is

inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. This is what I wanted to say but did not get around to it. Mahavidyas impart Brahmagyana. That is why they are called maha vidya. I find it quite amusing to see people trapped in exploring their base energies for relief from material and physical problems. What a waste of sadhana! You are very right in pointing out that all forms of the Mahavidyas are not Nila shakti. Kamalatmika, Bhuvaneswari and Tripurasundari stand out as exceptions with Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari being embodiments of Sri shakti. Although the Mahavidyas as a group represent Nila shakti. In the Devi Bhagavat and

other puranas where the inception of the mahavidyas are described, it is said that Gouri got extremely angry on Shiva as the latter prevented her from attending Daksha's infamous yagna. Shiva ran from her, however whichever corner he ran to, a terrible form of the devi appeared. He ran helter skelter to the ten dikas, running away from one fearsome devi form to another. The ten devi forms in the ten dikas are the Dasa Mahavidyas. So Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari also took fearsome forms although they are not ugra rupas; that is why perhaps we tend to make the mistake. I remember Sanjayji saying, "don't ever make the mistake that Kamalatmika is a sweet, lotus lady. She is the most difficult of them all." What I meant by saumya forms for palana devatas are other forms of the devi. Because of the word palana being used, the discussion on the list has been on Sri Shakti. But Saraswati as we worship her (and not Nila Saraswati who is quite different and a Tara shakti) even Durga and Jagaddhatri can fit the bill along with Annapurna and Lakshmi. So we can say Durga but not Chamunda; Lakshmi but not Kamalatmika etc. Kali per se appears ugra; even Dakshina Kali. As I wrote in my earlier mail a Kali sadhaka who has Saturn/Moon/Venus as the palana devata can safely assume Kali to be his/her palana devata. He would be anyways perceiving her as Karunamayi, the All Compassionate One, who looks after him. After all She is that depending on how we perceive Her. Best Regards, Sarbani Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] Monday, December 26, 2005 8:41 PMsohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata Namaste Sarbani and others, My 2 cents on this. Please ignore if it doesn't make sense... As I understand, not all Dasa maha vidyas are forms of Nila shakti. Also, it is not a question of saumya vs ugra. Dasa maha vidyas not only include Kali and Chhinna Masta, but Kamala and Bhuvaneswari too! Even within one Mahavidya, there are several manifestations that are different. For example, Bhadra Kaali and Smasaana Kaali are considerably different. I do agree with the reservations you expressed about Dasa Mahavidyas being prescribed as palana devatas. As per my little understanding of the Mother, Maha vidyas impart the most supreme knowledge, as the name implies. She is the Chetas that causes motion in Chit. She is the reason for our independent existence (without Chetas, we would have just been Chit). She is the one who can give us the highest knowledge, i.e. knowledge of the relationship between Chit

and Chetas, how Chetas manifests and works and how we can go back to the original state of Chit. Mahavidyas give a perfect understanding of the nature of Chetas. This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha. To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. If you don't want to transcend Chetas, but want to be limited by it and want to manipulate it to apparently benefit your limited existence within it, there are other forms of Mother who can do that for you. Mahavidyas are relevant only when you want to transcend. I hope more learned Devi bhaktas do not find my views too silly. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- sohamsa , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:>> Shri Brahmadaru Smarami> > Dear Freedom and Sanjayp,> > Sanjay Prabhakaran has specifically given the Dasa Mahavidyas for the palana> devatas. To the best of my knowledge, whether westerner or Indian, beginner> or advanced, the Dasa Mahavidyas are to be

prescribed only under very> special circumstances and only when the jyotishi is sure that the Mahavidya> will not be misused or misunderstood. Dasa Mahavidyas help in rescuing the> native from deep distress and mire, when all other avenues fail. I have been> taught in my initial classes, that Mahavidya is to be rarely prescribed. Of> course, I see a different trend nowadays. Palana devata will naturally be> not one of the Mahavidyas, but a saumya rupa of the devi. Saumya may include> either Sri or Bhu shakti. On the other hand, if you meet a native who has> been a Kali sadhak for centuries, and his palana devata indicates Saturn or> Saturn/Moon associations, then one would obviously prescribe Kali as the> palana devata for such a native. Such a sadhaka would anyways not perceive> Kali as a nila shakti but as the All Compassionate Mother. > > So I think we look at saumya rupas whenever

prescribing Devi mantras, unless> there are other indications or necessities in the chart. Palana devata> deities therefore can not only be forms of Lakshmi, but Saraswati, Durga,> Annapurna, Jagaddhatri etc.> > Best regards,> > Sarbani> > > > freedom [freedom@s...] > Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Hare Rama Krsna> > So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use> a Sri Shakti rupa? > > To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for> Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full> implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most> people associate the

graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay> Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. > > In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter> too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are> supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the> most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way,> isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining> purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana> devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless> that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much> more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional> charakaraka. > > Namah Sivaya> > > Sanjay Rath

[guruji@s...]> Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please> correct me)> > It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is> more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and> nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered> to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to> be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. > > Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your> Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart> the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same

indications, and> hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the> Palana devatä.> > From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana> devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more> mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has> advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of> naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri> SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162>

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December 29, 2005

Om Gurave Namah Namaste Ram, Thanks for your reply and yes, Sun+Mars in karakamsa is indeed a rajasik combination. I have always been worried about strengthening Martian goddesses, even though my Dharma devata also happens to be Mars! That's a very poetic description about Bagalamukhi:--)) Mother willing, perhaps I will learn more about Her. Regards, Lakshmi rama narayanan <sree88ganesha wrote: SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAM AUM GURUBYO NAMAH Dear Lakshmi, Namaste. Sorry for not being able to reply/respond immediately and thank you for the response. Mars is placed alongwith Sun in 10th in navamsa. This combination is akin to the combination of Venus and Buda in swamsa!!!

This gives hint about rajasic clouds sweeping the dharmic ideals. MATA BAGALAMUKHI can bring about a stunning change if worshipped with firm faith. The expression of Bagala makes others expressionless. She is called as Bagala as per Agama and as Valga as per Nigama. She manifested before Lord Vishnu during a night when Tuesday shook hands with Chaturdashi. She represents Brahmaastra. Think for a second the Brahmaastra used by Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi. He put forth the simple question "who am I" which brought forth the stunning effect of immediate silence. Think for a second the manifestation of faith in the answer(A BIG "YES") given by Prahalada to Hiranyakashipu when he was asked as to whether Lord Vishnu was in the pillar. Think for a second the stunning effect of the manifestation of Lord from the Pillar. That electric force technically known as 'atharva sakthi' is Bagala. Her beauty can leave you speechless. You need have no fears as to Mars being AK and that the

worship of the devatha related to Mars may harm you. The real 'kuja sthambana' can be realised in the worship of Bagalamukhi. Best wishes. May Mother Bless. Astrologically & spiritually yours, p.s.ramanarayanan.lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: Om Gurave Namah Namaste Ram, It is very nice to see your response. You are very right that Mother(for that matter all Deities) is basically nirguna and it is our need which arrogates a guna to Her. The need of Devas gave Mother that "rajasik" tint as Durga! I am sure that you know the line "Sahasra dala padmastha sarva varnopa shobhitaa" from Lalitha Sahasranaamam. As Prakriti personified, Mother is full of colours and infinite variety is Her norm.

During the course of Bhagavadgita, Sri Krishna revealed His awesome infinite cosmic form to Arjuna, yet Arjuna begged Bhagavan to resume the form of his dear old friend, whom he had grown to love over the years. Arjuna's entreaty is more a reflection of his attachment. Sri Ramakrishna had exhaustively experienced the entire spectrum of spiritual sadhana, yet the Enlightened Soul remained fiercely attached to Mother's manifestation as Kali. Likewise our discussion was centred on exploring personal compatibility and preference of the forms of Devi, who is both saguna and nirguna. She's Shodasi and is capable of an intriguing mix of saguna & nirguna. Incidentally, I feel that since both bhakti and moksha indicate jala tattwa, the deity we relate to, does carry a remote resemblence to our selves, in terms of disposition. She/He is like a Higher Self. At the level of nirgunopasana (paraa state) We are Mother or the attribute-less Brahman, is it not? Where is the difference? So, till we reach that state of liberation, our worship and spiritual aspirations/longings continue to be based on guna, hence the discussion. As long as the manah exists, so do the gunas!! Thanks for the lovely note on Mahavidyas. I have a lot to learn in this direction. I have an academic question. In my chart, the 4th from Atmakaraka is Scorpio, which is the navamsa lagna and is ruled by Atmakaraka. So which would be the form I need to worship? Will not such a worship (of deity related to AK) damage the cause of moksha, which is the true end of any transformation? Looking forward to your reply, Regards, Lakshmi rama narayanan <sree88ganesha wrote: SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAMAUM GURUBYO NAMAHDear Sarbani & Lakshmi,Pranams. May i write a few lines!! Be it Satwa, Rajas, Tamas Mother is beyond these three. Rahu is not Durga but Durga Mata is kind enough to shrink herself to the level of a graha because you had invited her while you were in the grip of Rahu. The word graha indicates that you are in the clutches. How to get one out of the grip of a graha? Mother being karunya personified extends herself by manifesting before the heart soaked in Rahu and pulls one out. This is the case with all the grahas.When the child makes mischief mother takes up a scale just to stop the kid from making further trouble. The child may think that mother is ferocious(rajasic/tamasic)! It feels that it should not ask mother anything at that point of time and quickly obeys the command of Mother. After some time it places its request to mother which mother grants. Now the child thinks that Mother is so sweet!!The simplest form of Mantra is OM MATRE NAMAH. You may stand/sit before any Moorthy/vigraha and simply chant OM MATRE NAMAH.As regards Maha vidyas the very word vidya connote knowledge. This knowledge is not any attainment of some degree. It is complete transformation. The 4th from Atmakaraka in navamsa indicates Mahavidya. The 4th is infact the 64th navamsa which indicates the transformation factor. Of all the discovery it is the self discovery which is the best and of all the wealths knowledge is the best. Mahavidya aims at jeeva to be sensitive of being an amsa of the para and ultimately making the para to manifest.When it is a question of prayer both the eyes may

be closed, but when it is question of knowledge then the third needs to be opened up is it not?!May Mother Bless.Warm regards.Astrologically & spiritually yours,p.s.ramanarayanan.Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Lakshmi, Undoubtedly Durga is rajasik and hence would be associated with Bhu Shakti. That is why I mentioned in my mail to Freedom, that palana devata can be both be sri or bhu shakti. In your chart Rahu is conjoined your ishta planet Moon; so naturally it will spring to the mind that Durga is the nature of the deity. However, in practice you have always maintained that Lalita Tripurasundari is your ishta. Perhaps if you take ishta planet Moon back into the rashi chart where it is conjoined Saturn and Jupiter in Sagittarius lagna. Tripura is said to carry parampara shakti, and Jupiter is definitely strong in lagna in its own sign! And that very same Jupiter is your palana devata. Thakur's ishta Surya is conjoined Moon and

Mercury aspected by that brilliant Saturn. Did you know that he worshipped Ma as Shodasi on the day of Phalaharini Kali Puja? Guruji is apparently doing some 'wow' stuff on Thakur and Swamiji for the remedies workshop! ...and I am no authority! Thats just a false arudha. Best Regards, Sarbani lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:12 PMsohamsa Subject: RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Om Gurave Namah Dear Sarbani, Sorry for jumping in, but the discussion is so very interesting, i just couldn't help it:--)) Ofcourse, Mother is all Love, but there are nuances and shades in the way she demonstrates it. She could cuddle and She could wallop too and she does both these things because She cares. Durga might be a softer version of Chamundi, but still I don't think you can call Her saattwik. She's more rajasik because She had

manifested in response to the desire of the devas, in order to achieve a kshatriyan end. Infact, a couple of months ago I tried to do more Durga worship, because I keep seeing Her in dreams and since I am also running Rahu maha dasa, I thought i'd give it a try!! But, believe me, it had generated a very restless & uneasy feeling in me, so I had reverted to my earlier schedule. Do you think it happened because Jupiter and Sun are the key planets in my natal chart and I was indirectly strengthening Rahu, their arch enemy, through this worship? Perhaps Lalitha Tripura Sundari is more apt as my palana devata & ishta, because She corresponds to the Vishnu avatara of Vamana (Jupiter) who filled the Three worlds as Trivikrama. In Thakur's chart, Saturn(his lagna lord) is just magnificent and so is Rahu, hence his worship of Mother in the form of Kali (Saturn)suited him perfectly and became a blessing for the world. So, probably it is the most powerful planet (s) and the overall tenor of the chart that influence the conscious/unconscious choice of the Devi Form. Just my two cents because I hardly know any thing about Dasa Maha Vidyas and definitely would like to learn more from an authority like you. Regards, Lakshmi Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Narasimha, Namaste. Actually you penned my very thoughts! You wrote: This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. This is what I wanted to say but did not get around to it. Mahavidyas impart Brahmagyana. That is why they are called maha vidya. I find it quite amusing to see people trapped in

exploring their base energies for relief from material and physical problems. What a waste of sadhana! You are very right in pointing out that all forms of the Mahavidyas are not Nila shakti. Kamalatmika, Bhuvaneswari and Tripurasundari stand out as exceptions with Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari being embodiments of Sri shakti. Although the Mahavidyas as a group represent Nila shakti. In the Devi Bhagavat and other puranas where the inception of the mahavidyas are described, it is said that Gouri got extremely angry on Shiva as the latter prevented her from attending Daksha's infamous yagna. Shiva ran from her, however whichever corner he ran to, a terrible form of the devi appeared. He ran

helter skelter to the ten dikas, running away from one fearsome devi form to another. The ten devi forms in the ten dikas are the Dasa Mahavidyas. So Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari also took fearsome forms although they are not ugra rupas; that is why perhaps we tend to make the mistake. I remember Sanjayji saying, "don't ever make the mistake that Kamalatmika is a sweet, lotus lady. She is the most difficult of them all." What I meant by saumya forms for palana devatas are other forms of the devi. Because of the word palana being used, the discussion on the list has been on Sri Shakti. But Saraswati as we worship her (and not Nila Saraswati who is quite different and a Tara shakti) even Durga and

Jagaddhatri can fit the bill along with Annapurna and Lakshmi. So we can say Durga but not Chamunda; Lakshmi but not Kamalatmika etc. Kali per se appears ugra; even Dakshina Kali. As I wrote in my earlier mail a Kali sadhaka who has Saturn/Moon/Venus as the palana devata can safely assume Kali to be his/her palana devata. He would be anyways perceiving her as Karunamayi, the All Compassionate One, who looks after him. After all She is that depending on how we perceive Her. Best Regards, Sarbani Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] Monday, December 26, 2005 8:41 PMsohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata Namaste Sarbani and others, My 2 cents on this. Please ignore if it doesn't make sense... As I understand, not all Dasa maha vidyas are forms of Nila shakti. Also, it is not a question of saumya vs ugra. Dasa maha vidyas not only include Kali and Chhinna Masta, but Kamala and Bhuvaneswari too! Even within one Mahavidya,

there are several manifestations that are different. For example, Bhadra Kaali and Smasaana Kaali are considerably different. I do agree with the reservations you expressed about Dasa Mahavidyas being prescribed as palana devatas. As per my little understanding of the Mother, Maha vidyas impart the most supreme knowledge, as the name implies. She is the Chetas that causes motion in Chit. She is the reason for our independent existence (without Chetas, we would have just been Chit). She is the one who can give us the highest knowledge, i.e. knowledge of the relationship between Chit and Chetas, how Chetas manifests and works and how we can go back to the original state of Chit. Mahavidyas give a perfect understanding of the nature of Chetas. This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha. To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. If you don't want to transcend Chetas, but want to be limited by it and want to manipulate it to apparently benefit your limited existence within it, there are other forms of Mother who can do that for you. Mahavidyas are relevant only when you want to transcend. I hope more learned Devi bhaktas do not find my views too silly. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- sohamsa , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:>> Shri Brahmadaru Smarami> > Dear Freedom and Sanjayp,> > Sanjay Prabhakaran has specifically given the Dasa Mahavidyas for the palana> devatas. To the best of my knowledge, whether westerner or Indian, beginner> or advanced, the Dasa Mahavidyas are to be prescribed only under very> special circumstances and only when the jyotishi is sure that the Mahavidya> will not be misused or misunderstood. Dasa Mahavidyas help in rescuing the> native from deep distress and mire, when all other avenues fail. I have been> taught in my initial classes, that

Mahavidya is to be rarely prescribed. Of> course, I see a different trend nowadays. Palana devata will naturally be> not one of the Mahavidyas, but a saumya rupa of the devi. Saumya may include> either Sri or Bhu shakti. On the other hand, if you meet a native who has> been a Kali sadhak for centuries, and his palana devata indicates Saturn or> Saturn/Moon associations, then one would obviously prescribe Kali as the> palana devata for such a native. Such a sadhaka would anyways not perceive> Kali as a nila shakti but as the All Compassionate Mother. > > So I think we look at saumya rupas whenever prescribing Devi mantras, unless> there are other indications or necessities in the chart. Palana devata> deities therefore can not only be forms of Lakshmi, but Saraswati, Durga,> Annapurna, Jagaddhatri etc.> > Best regards,> > Sarbani> > > -----Original

Message-----> freedom [freedom@s...] > Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Hare Rama Krsna> > So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use> a Sri Shakti rupa? > > To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for> Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full> implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most> people associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay> Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. > > In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter> too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are> supposed to understand the devas.

To the normal westerner who perceives the> most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way,> isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining> purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana> devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless> that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much> more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional> charakaraka. > > Namah Sivaya> > > Sanjay Rath [guruji@s...]> Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name?

Please> correct me)> > It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is> more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and> nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered> to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to> be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. > > Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your> Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart> the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and> hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the> Palana devatä.> > From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana> devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more> mundane or worldly

life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has> advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of> naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri> SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162> - PhotosRing in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger. DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger. Do You

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December 30, 2005

Shri Brahmadaru Smarami

Dear Lakshmi,

Unfortunately no VCDs but definitely we are recording and so I believe a lot of other people! I hope Zoran is reading this mail and and is going to bring the CDs.

Answering your other mails separately.

Best Regards,

Sarbani

lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:31 PMsohamsa Subject: RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata-Lakshmi

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Sarbani,

You are being modest. You do have a lot of knowledge of Dasa Maha Vidya and mantra shastra. And, I am really sad to miss out on all those wonderful sessions on remedial measures by Guruji. I hope the CDs come out soon so that I can listen to the lectures. Are you going to make VCDs?

Btw, is Zoran going to bring CDs of serbia conference? I want to buy one set.

Regards,

LakshmiSarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote:

Shri Brahmadaru Smarami

Dear Lakshmi,

Undoubtedly Durga is rajasik and hence would be associated with Bhu Shakti. That is why I mentioned in my mail to Freedom, that palana devata can be both be sri or bhu shakti. In your chart Rahu is conjoined your ishta planet Moon; so naturally it will spring to the mind that Durga is the nature of the deity. However, in practice you have always maintained that Lalita Tripurasundari is your ishta. Perhaps if you take ishta planet Moon back into the rashi chart where it is conjoined Saturn and Jupiter in Sagittarius lagna. Tripura is said to carry parampara shakti, and Jupiter is definitely strong in lagna in its own sign! And that very same Jupiter is your palana devata.

Thakur's ishta Surya is conjoined Moon and Mercury aspected by that brilliant Saturn. Did you know that he worshipped Ma as Shodasi on the day of Phalaharini Kali Puja? Guruji is apparently doing some 'wow' stuff on Thakur and Swamiji for the remedies workshop!

....and I am no authority! Thats just a false arudha.

Best Regards,

Sarbani

lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:12 PMsohamsa Subject: RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Sarbani,

Sorry for jumping in, but the discussion is so very interesting, i just couldn't help it:--))

Ofcourse, Mother is all Love, but there are nuances and shades in the way she demonstrates it. She could cuddle and She could wallop too and she does both these things because She cares. Durga might be a softer version of Chamundi, but still I don't think you can call Her saattwik. She's more rajasik because She had manifested in response to the desire of the devas, in order to achieve a kshatriyan end. Infact, a couple of months ago I tried to do more Durga worship, because I keep seeing Her in dreams and since I am also running Rahu maha dasa, I thought i'd give it a try!! But, believe me, it had generated a very restless & uneasy feeling in me, so I had reverted to my earlier schedule. Do you think it happened because Jupiter and Sun are the key planets in my natal chart and I was indirectly strengthening Rahu, their arch enemy, through this worship? Perhaps Lalitha Tripura Sundari is more apt as my palana devata & ishta, because She corresponds to the Vishnu avatara of Vamana (Jupiter) who filled the Three worlds as Trivikrama.

In Thakur's chart, Saturn(his lagna lord) is just magnificent and so is Rahu, hence his worship of Mother in the form of Kali (Saturn)suited him perfectly and became a blessing for the world. So, probably it is the most powerful planet (s) and the overall tenor of the chart that influence the conscious/unconscious choice of the Devi Form.

Just my two cents because I hardly know any thing about Dasa Maha Vidyas and definitely would like to learn more from an authority like you.

Regards,

Lakshmi

Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote:

Shri Brahmadaru Smarami

Dear Narasimha,

Namaste. Actually you penned my very thoughts! You wrote: This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. This is what I wanted to say but did not get around to it. Mahavidyas impart Brahmagyana. That is why they are called maha vidya. I find it quite amusing to see people trapped in exploring their base energies for relief from material and physical problems. What a waste of sadhana!

You are very right in pointing out that all forms of the Mahavidyas are not Nila shakti. Kamalatmika, Bhuvaneswari and Tripurasundari stand out as exceptions with Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari being embodiments of Sri shakti. Although the Mahavidyas as a group represent Nila shakti. In the Devi Bhagavat and other puranas where the inception of the mahavidyas are described, it is said that Gouri got extremely angry on Shiva as the latter prevented her from attending Daksha's infamous yagna. Shiva ran from her, however whichever corner he ran to, a terrible form of the devi appeared. He ran helter skelter to the ten dikas, running away from one fearsome devi form to another. The ten devi forms in the ten dikas are the Dasa Mahavidyas. So Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari also took fearsome forms although they are not ugra rupas; that is why perhaps we tend to make the mistake. I remember Sanjayji saying, "don't ever make the mistake that Kamalatmika is a sweet, lotus lady. She is the most difficult of them all."

What I meant by saumya forms for palana devatas are other forms of the devi. Because of the word palana being used, the discussion on the list has been on Sri Shakti. But Saraswati as we worship her (and not Nila Saraswati who is quite different and a Tara shakti) even Durga and Jagaddhatri can fit the bill along with Annapurna and Lakshmi. So we can say Durga but not Chamunda; Lakshmi but not Kamalatmika etc. Kali per se appears ugra; even Dakshina Kali. As I wrote in my earlier mail a Kali sadhaka who has Saturn/Moon/Venus as the palana devata can safely assume Kali to be his/her palana devata. He would be anyways perceiving her as Karunamayi, the All Compassionate One, who looks after him. After all She is that depending on how we perceive Her.

Best Regards,

Sarbani

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] Monday, December 26, 2005 8:41 PMsohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata

Namaste Sarbani and others,

My 2 cents on this. Please ignore if it doesn't make sense...

As I understand, not all Dasa maha vidyas are forms of Nila shakti. Also, it is not a question of saumya vs ugra. Dasa maha vidyas not only include Kali and Chhinna Masta, but Kamala and Bhuvaneswari too! Even within one Mahavidya, there are several manifestations that are different. For example, Bhadra Kaali and Smasaana Kaali are considerably different.

I do agree with the reservations you expressed about Dasa Mahavidyas being prescribed as palana devatas. As per my little understanding of the Mother, Maha vidyas impart the most supreme knowledge, as the name implies. She is the Chetas that causes motion in Chit. She is the reason for our independent existence (without Chetas, we would have just been Chit). She is the one who can give us the highest knowledge, i.e. knowledge of the relationship between Chit and Chetas, how Chetas manifests and works and how we can go back to the original state of Chit. Mahavidyas give a perfect understanding of the nature of Chetas. This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.

To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. If you don't want to transcend Chetas, but want to be limited by it and want to manipulate it to apparently benefit your limited existence within it, there are other forms of Mother who can do that for you. Mahavidyas are relevant only when you want to transcend.

I hope more learned Devi bhaktas do not find my views too silly.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

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sohamsa , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:>> Shri Brahmadaru Smarami> > Dear Freedom and Sanjayp,> > Sanjay Prabhakaran has specifically given the Dasa Mahavidyas for the palana> devatas. To the best of my knowledge, whether westerner or Indian, beginner> or advanced, the Dasa Mahavidyas are to be prescribed only under very> special circumstances and only when the jyotishi is sure that the Mahavidya> will not be misused or misunderstood. Dasa Mahavidyas help in rescuing the> native from deep distress and mire, when all other avenues fail. I have been> taught in my initial classes, that Mahavidya is to be rarely prescribed. Of> course, I see a different trend nowadays. Palana devata will naturally be> not one of the Mahavidyas, but a saumya rupa of the devi. Saumya may include> either Sri or Bhu shakti. On the other hand, if you meet a native who has> been a Kali sadhak for centuries, and his palana devata indicates Saturn or> Saturn/Moon associations, then one would obviously prescribe Kali as the> palana devata for such a native. Such a sadhaka would anyways not perceive> Kali as a nila shakti but as the All Compassionate Mother. > > So I think we look at saumya rupas whenever prescribing Devi mantras, unless> there are other indications or necessities in the chart. Palana devata> deities therefore can not only be forms of Lakshmi, but Saraswati, Durga,> Annapurna, Jagaddhatri etc.> > Best regards,> > Sarbani> > > > freedom [freedom@s...] > Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Hare Rama Krsna> > So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use> a Sri Shakti rupa? > > To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for> Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full> implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most> people associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay> Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. > > In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter> too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are> supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the> most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way,> isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining> purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana> devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless> that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much> more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional> charakaraka. > > Namah Sivaya> > > Sanjay Rath [guruji@s...]> Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please> correct me)> > It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is> more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and> nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered> to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to> be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. > > Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your> Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart> the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and> hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the> Palana devatä.> > From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana> devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more> mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has> advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of> naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri> SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162> -

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