Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Hare Rama Krsna My view on the Palana Devata is that it is a deity that sustains us and therefore should be a sattvic (sustaining) devatta. Sanjay teaches a form of Visnu for Ishta, that is clear. This is according to our Parampara, as Parashara uses many deities. For Palana devatta, Guruji sometimes says Visnu and sometimes he says Devi. If you look at his writings on the link provided regarded Palana devatta, you can see guruji uses the words 'He looks after the individual....'. For my own chart I have a Rahu-Saturn conjunction sixth from Amk, which Sanjay has advised me to worship as Balaji (a Visnu form associated with Rahu-Saturn conj). Ishta relates to the Sun, a masculine form. Palana relates to Moon (feminine form), and Palana also takes care of you like a Mother, so worship of Palana as a Devi is very valid, and taught by Guruji often. My problem lies with using nila shakti (Kali rupas) for Palana devatta. My understanding is that nila shakti is purifying, removing, etc. Instead, Palana devatta should be a form that is sustaining; either Visnu Rupa or Sri Shakti. My students are all aware of the forms and mantras for the Dasavatara. They are not aware of the various forms of Sri Shakti related to each of the grahas. There have been some teachings of these forms in SJC but I have not seen specific mantras given for each of these forms. I therefore prefer to use the forms of Sri Visnu which we are all aware of and in agreement upon. I am not criticizing the use of Nila Shakti for Palana devatta. I am just stating my own belief based upon gunas and reasoning. In some places in India, Nila Shaktis are used even for Ishta devatta, and their use is supported by various scriptures. When I personally chose a devatta for my own or someone else's worship, the first thing I take into account is [1] the relation of the gunas of the purpose of the worship relative to [2] the gunas of the devatta. One must also take into account the person's spiritual background, we would not ask a devout Christian or Muslim to worship Kurma Avatar if their Palana devatta (Saturn) was afflicted. We would have to understand the fundamental principles, and find a solution according to the individual's background, yet based about gunas and grahas. In this way Vedic science is universal. Namah Sivaya adhyaayin [adhyaayin] Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:47 PM sohamsa Re: #2 Palana Devata: Form of Sri Shakti or Sri Vishnu ? FOR PVR-ji Dear PVR-ji Thank you for clarifying my doubts and elavating me from the level of " adhyaayin " to " Sri Dakshinamurthy " :-) Annway, I am just a student. I totally agree with you and Nitin-ji on the sensibilities of choosing the palana deity. I just wanted to find out if there is an official parampara line on this matter. This is the link to Freedom-ji specific mp3 file (http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% 20Ishta.mp3). The last 30 seconds of the file have the statements. Sincere thanks to all SJC gurus for providing the mp3 lessons and other resources. Kind regards. Adhyaayin sohamsa , " pvr108 " <pvr@c...> wrote: > > Namaste Sri Dakshinamoorthi, > > One should realize that there are no perfect objective answers to > questions in astrology that relate to religion, spirituality and > philosophy. > > What I said in my class was based on the same thinking that was > outlined by Nitin below. Sanjay ji once taught me that it is > advisable to take a form of Vishnu as ishta devata and a form of > Devi as palana devata. > > The above is, however, not strictly following Pararsara. Parasara > outlines all gods when describing ishta and palana devatas. Thus, it > makes sense to accept any devata. At the same time, Sanjay ji's > specific guidance on using the forms of Vishnu and Devi is logical > too. > > Are you sure you are not mistaking what Freedom said regarding ishta > devata for palana devata? That is possible. > > In any case, in my humble view, you can worship any form of god as > ishta devata or palana devata. If Mars is in the 12th from AK in > navamsa and one worships Kartikeya or Bagalamukhi for moksha > (instead of Narasimha), I don't believe that that worship goes > wasted. Those gods may still take one closer to moksha. Similarly, > if Saturn is in 6th from AmK in navamsa and one worships Koorma Deva > or Vishnu Himself instead of Mother Kaali and asks for livelihood, > one's livelihood may still be taken care of. > > It is good to follow the advice of maharshis, tradition and gurus > whenever possible, but one should be flexible and focus on the > essence and spirit of the teachings. Sometimes, we can get stuck in > some details and miss the essence. Thumbrules are just that - > thumbrules. > > Understanding the TRUE nature of either Vishnu or Shiva or Shakti - > even one of them - is not easy. If someone feels close to one of the > three, I wouldn't mind recommending the forms of the same for all > purposes. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear Nitin-ji > > > > I had sent a reply to your response but for some reason it > > never got posted on the vedic astrology group. > > > > Thanks for the reference to the article. I have a copy. > > > > However even in that article under the " Palana devata " section > there > > is no reference to palana devata as a form of the mother. Many > > deities are listed. > > > > Personally i rightly agree with you and also belive in the > mother's > > form for palana devata. > > > > But in Sri Freedom-ji's mp3 (sjc vyasa) class > > http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% > 20Ishta.mp3 > > he mentions palana devata as a sri vishnu swarupa. > > > > In PVR-ji's mp3 classes (lesson no 20) he mentions palana devata > as a > > form of the mother. > > > > > > Please clarify this. > > > > Adhyaayin > > > > Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah > > > > > > sohamsa , " Nitin K " <sjc@j...> wrote: > > > > > > ||| Aum Krishna Guru ||| > > > > > > vedic astrology/message/68220 > > > > > > || Namah Shivaaya || > > > > > > > > > -- > > > " adhyaayin " <adhyaayin> > > > sohamsa > > > Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:40 -0000 > > > > > > >Dear Gurus > > > > > > > >Pranaams > > > > > > > >Please clear my confusion about the Palana Devata (6th from > AmK). > > > > > > > >On hearing the audio classes of PVR-ji my understanding was > that it > > > >should be a form of the mother corresponding to the planet. But > > > >recently I heard Freedom-ji's class mp3 (Vyasa SJC) that it > should > > be a > > > >form of Sri Vishnu. > > > > > > > >So I hope somebody could clarify this. > > > > > > > >Thanks and kind regards. > > > > > > > >Adhyaayin > > > > > > > >Om Sri Gurubhyo namah > *tat savitur varenyam* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Jaya Jagannatha Dear Freedom, Namaste 6th from my AmK is Scorpio and both co-lords are exalted. I was taught to worship Bhaglamukhi for my Palana devata. Love, Swee sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of freedom Friday, December 23, 2005 9:31 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Hare Rama Krsna My view on the Palana Devata is that it is a deity that sustains us and therefore should be a sattvic (sustaining) devatta. Sanjay teaches a form of Visnu for Ishta, that is clear. This is according to our Parampara, as Parashara uses many deities. For Palana devatta, Guruji sometimes says Visnu and sometimes he says Devi. If you look at his writings on the link provided regarded Palana devatta, you can see guruji uses the words 'He looks after the individual....'. For my own chart I have a Rahu-Saturn conjunction sixth from Amk, which Sanjay has advised me to worship as Balaji (a Visnu form associated with Rahu-Saturn conj). Ishta relates to the Sun, a masculine form. Palana relates to Moon (feminine form), and Palana also takes care of you like a Mother, so worship of Palana as a Devi is very valid, and taught by Guruji often. My problem lies with using nila shakti (Kali rupas) for Palana devatta. My understanding is that nila shakti is purifying, removing, etc. Instead, Palana devatta should be a form that is sustaining; either Visnu Rupa or Sri Shakti. My students are all aware of the forms and mantras for the Dasavatara. They are not aware of the various forms of Sri Shakti related to each of the grahas. There have been some teachings of these forms in SJC but I have not seen specific mantras given for each of these forms. I therefore prefer to use the forms of Sri Visnu which we are all aware of and in agreement upon. I am not criticizing the use of Nila Shakti for Palana devatta. I am just stating my own belief based upon gunas and reasoning. In some places in India, Nila Shaktis are used even for Ishta devatta, and their use is supported by various scriptures. When I personally chose a devatta for my own or someone else's worship, the first thing I take into account is [1] the relation of the gunas of the purpose of the worship relative to [2] the gunas of the devatta. One must also take into account the person's spiritual background, we would not ask a devout Christian or Muslim to worship Kurma Avatar if their Palana devatta (Saturn) was afflicted. We would have to understand the fundamental principles, and find a solution according to the individual's background, yet based about gunas and grahas. In this way Vedic science is universal. Namah Sivaya adhyaayin [adhyaayin] Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:47 PM sohamsa Re: #2 Palana Devata: Form of Sri Shakti or Sri Vishnu ? FOR PVR-ji Dear PVR-ji Thank you for clarifying my doubts and elavating me from the level of " adhyaayin " to " Sri Dakshinamurthy " :-) Annway, I am just a student. I totally agree with you and Nitin-ji on the sensibilities of choosing the palana deity. I just wanted to find out if there is an official parampara line on this matter. This is the link to Freedom-ji specific mp3 file (http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% 20Ishta.mp3). The last 30 seconds of the file have the statements. Sincere thanks to all SJC gurus for providing the mp3 lessons and other resources. Kind regards. Adhyaayin sohamsa , " pvr108 " <pvr@c...> wrote: > > Namaste Sri Dakshinamoorthi, > > One should realize that there are no perfect objective answers to > questions in astrology that relate to religion, spirituality and > philosophy. > > What I said in my class was based on the same thinking that was > outlined by Nitin below. Sanjay ji once taught me that it is > advisable to take a form of Vishnu as ishta devata and a form of > Devi as palana devata. > > The above is, however, not strictly following Pararsara. Parasara > outlines all gods when describing ishta and palana devatas. Thus, it > makes sense to accept any devata. At the same time, Sanjay ji's > specific guidance on using the forms of Vishnu and Devi is logical > too. > > Are you sure you are not mistaking what Freedom said regarding ishta > devata for palana devata? That is possible. > > In any case, in my humble view, you can worship any form of god as > ishta devata or palana devata. If Mars is in the 12th from AK in > navamsa and one worships Kartikeya or Bagalamukhi for moksha > (instead of Narasimha), I don't believe that that worship goes > wasted. Those gods may still take one closer to moksha. Similarly, > if Saturn is in 6th from AmK in navamsa and one worships Koorma Deva > or Vishnu Himself instead of Mother Kaali and asks for livelihood, > one's livelihood may still be taken care of. > > It is good to follow the advice of maharshis, tradition and gurus > whenever possible, but one should be flexible and focus on the > essence and spirit of the teachings. Sometimes, we can get stuck in > some details and miss the essence. Thumbrules are just that - > thumbrules. > > Understanding the TRUE nature of either Vishnu or Shiva or Shakti - > even one of them - is not easy. If someone feels close to one of the > three, I wouldn't mind recommending the forms of the same for all > purposes. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear Nitin-ji > > > > I had sent a reply to your response but for some reason it > > never got posted on the vedic astrology group. > > > > Thanks for the reference to the article. I have a copy. > > > > However even in that article under the " Palana devata " section > there > > is no reference to palana devata as a form of the mother. Many > > deities are listed. > > > > Personally i rightly agree with you and also belive in the > mother's > > form for palana devata. > > > > But in Sri Freedom-ji's mp3 (sjc vyasa) class > > http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% > 20Ishta.mp3 > > he mentions palana devata as a sri vishnu swarupa. > > > > In PVR-ji's mp3 classes (lesson no 20) he mentions palana devata > as a > > form of the mother. > > > > > > Please clarify this. > > > > Adhyaayin > > > > Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah > > > > > > sohamsa , " Nitin K " <sjc@j...> wrote: > > > > > > ||| Aum Krishna Guru ||| > > > > > > vedic astrology/message/68220 > > > > > > || Namah Shivaaya || > > > > > > > > > -- > > > " adhyaayin " <adhyaayin> > > > sohamsa > > > Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:40 -0000 > > > > > > >Dear Gurus > > > > > > > >Pranaams > > > > > > > >Please clear my confusion about the Palana Devata (6th from > AmK). > > > > > > > >On hearing the audio classes of PVR-ji my understanding was > that it > > > >should be a form of the mother corresponding to the planet. But > > > >recently I heard Freedom-ji's class mp3 (Vyasa SJC) that it > should > > be a > > > >form of Sri Vishnu. > > > > > > > >So I hope somebody could clarify this. > > > > > > > >Thanks and kind regards. > > > > > > > >Adhyaayin > > > > > > > >Om Sri Gurubhyo namah > *tat savitur varenyam* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Freedom and other Jyotishas, Here is my understanding of corresponding Mother forms, My attempt has been to give a list of dieties for which there are more number of temples (at least in south india) and more easy literature is available for the bhakta to learn. Dasa Maha Vidya Alternative Sun Matangi Meenakshi Amman Moon Gauri Gauri Mars Bagalamba Maari Amman Mercury Tripurasundari Tripurasundari/Raja Rajeshwari Jupiter Taaraa Saraswati Venus Kamalaatmika Maha Lakshmi Saturn Kaali Kaali Rahu ChinnaMasta Varaahi/Durga Ketu Dhoomavati Maari Amman For more information on particular Mother form you can refer http://www.ambaa.org or http://www.srividya.org/ Warm Regards Sanjay P Warm Regards Sanjay P On 12/23/05, freedom <freedom wrote: Hare Rama KrsnaMy view on the Palana Devata is that it is a deity that sustains us andtherefore should be a sattvic (sustaining) devatta.Sanjay teaches a form of Visnu for Ishta, that is clear. This is according to our Parampara, as Parashara uses many deities.For Palana devatta, Guruji sometimes says Visnu and sometimes he says Devi.If you look at his writings on the link provided regarded Palana devatta,you can see guruji uses the words 'He looks after the individual....'. For my own chart I have a Rahu-Saturn conjunction sixth from Amk, which Sanjayhas advised me to worship as Balaji (a Visnu form associated withRahu-Saturn conj).Ishta relates to the Sun, a masculine form. Palana relates to Moon (feminine form), and Palana also takes care of you like a Mother, so worship of Palanaas a Devi is very valid, and taught by Guruji often.My problem lies with using nila shakti (Kali rupas) for Palana devatta. My understanding is that nila shakti is purifying, removing, etc. Instead,Palana devatta should be a form that is sustaining; either Visnu Rupa or SriShakti. My students are all aware of the forms and mantras for the Dasavatara. They are not aware of the various forms of Sri Shakti related toeach of the grahas. There have been some teachings of these forms in SJC butI have not seen specific mantras given for each of these forms. I therefore prefer to use the forms of Sri Visnu which we are all aware of and inagreement upon.I am not criticizing the use of Nila Shakti for Palana devatta. I am juststating my own belief based upon gunas and reasoning. In some places in India, Nila Shaktis are used even for Ishta devatta, and their use issupported by various scriptures.When I personally chose a devatta for my own or someone else's worship, thefirst thing I take into account is [1] the relation of the gunas of the purpose of the worship relative to [2] the gunas of the devatta. One mustalso take into account the person's spiritual background, we would not ask adevout Christian or Muslim to worship Kurma Avatar if their Palana devatta (Saturn) was afflicted. We would have to understand the fundamentalprinciples, and find a solution according to the individual's background,yet based about gunas and grahas. In this way Vedic science is universal. Namah Sivayaadhyaayin [adhyaayin]Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:47 PM sohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata: Form of Sri Shakti or Sri Vishnu ?FOR PVR-jiDear PVR-jiThank you for clarifying my doubts and elavating me from the level of " adhyaayin " to " Sri Dakshinamurthy " :-)Annway, I am just a student.I totally agree with you and Nitin-ji on the sensibilities ofchoosing the palana deity.I just wanted to find out if there is an official parampara line on this matter. This is the link to Freedom-ji specific mp3 file(http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006%20Ishta.mp3). The last 30 seconds of the file have the statements. Sincere thanks to all SJC gurus for providing the mp3 lessons andother resources.Kind regards.Adhyaayinsohamsa , " pvr108 " <pvr@c...> wrote:>> Namaste Sri Dakshinamoorthi,>> One should realize that there are no perfect objective answers to> questions in astrology that relate to religion, spirituality and > philosophy.>> What I said in my class was based on the same thinking that was> outlined by Nitin below. Sanjay ji once taught me that it is> advisable to take a form of Vishnu as ishta devata and a form of > Devi as palana devata.>> The above is, however, not strictly following Pararsara. Parasara> outlines all gods when describing ishta and palana devatas. Thus,it> makes sense to accept any devata. At the same time, Sanjay ji's > specific guidance on using the forms of Vishnu and Devi is logical> too.>> Are you sure you are not mistaking what Freedom said regardingishta> devata for palana devata? That is possible. >> In any case, in my humble view, you can worship any form of god as> ishta devata or palana devata. If Mars is in the 12th from AK in> navamsa and one worships Kartikeya or Bagalamukhi for moksha > (instead of Narasimha), I don't believe that that worship goes> wasted. Those gods may still take one closer to moksha. Similarly,> if Saturn is in 6th from AmK in navamsa and one worships Koorma Deva> or Vishnu Himself instead of Mother Kaali and asks for livelihood,> one's livelihood may still be taken care of.>> It is good to follow the advice of maharshis, tradition and gurus> whenever possible, but one should be flexible and focus on the > essence and spirit of the teachings. Sometimes, we can get stuck in> some details and miss the essence. Thumbrules are just that -> thumbrules.>> Understanding the TRUE nature of either Vishnu or Shiva or Shakti - > even one of them - is not easy. If someone feels close to one ofthe> three, I wouldn't mind recommending the forms of the same for all> purposes.>> May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha> -------------------------------> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> ------------------------------- >> > Dear Nitin-ji> >> > I had sent a reply to your response but for some reason it> > never got posted on the vedic astrology group.> >> > Thanks for the reference to the article. I have a copy. > >> > However even in that article under the " Palana devata " section> there> > is no reference to palana devata as a form of the mother. Many> > deities are listed. > >> > Personally i rightly agree with you and also belive in the> mother's> > form for palana devata.> >> > But in Sri Freedom-ji's mp3 (sjc vyasa) class> > http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006%> 20Ishta.mp3> > he mentions palana devata as a sri vishnu swarupa.> > > > In PVR-ji's mp3 classes (lesson no 20) he mentions palana devata> as a> > form of the mother.> >> >> > Please clarify this.> >> > Adhyaayin > >> > Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah> >> >> > sohamsa , " Nitin K " <sjc@j...> wrote:> > > > > > ||| Aum Krishna Guru |||> > >> > > vedic astrology/message/68220> > > > > > || Namah Shivaaya ||> > >> > >> > > --> > > " adhyaayin " <adhyaayin> > > > sohamsa > > > Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:40 -0000> > >> > > >Dear Gurus> > > > > > > >Pranaams> > > >> > > >Please clear my confusion about the Palana Devata (6th from> AmK).> > > >> > > >On hearing the audio classes of PVR-ji my understanding was > that it> > > >should be a form of the mother corresponding to the planet. But> > > >recently I heard Freedom-ji's class mp3 (Vyasa SJC) that it> should> > be a > > > >form of Sri Vishnu.> > > >> > > >So I hope somebody could clarify this.> > > >> > > >Thanks and kind regards.> > > >> > > >Adhyaayin > > > >> > > >Om Sri Gurubhyo namah>*tat savitur varenyam* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~ Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please correct me) It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the Palana devatä. From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi. With best wishes & warm regards, Yours truly Sanjay Rath Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India Phone: +91.11.25717162 - Swee Chan [swee] Friday, December 23, 2005 3:05 PM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Jaya Jagannatha Dear Freedom, Namaste 6th from my AmK is Scorpio and both co-lords are exalted. I was taught to worship Bhaglamukhi for my Palana devata. Love, Swee sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of freedom Friday, December 23, 2005 9:31 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Hare Rama Krsna My view on the Palana Devata is that it is a deity that sustains us and therefore should be a sattvic (sustaining) devatta. Sanjay teaches a form of Visnu for Ishta, that is clear. This is according to our Parampara, as Parashara uses many deities. For Palana devatta, Guruji sometimes says Visnu and sometimes he says Devi. If you look at his writings on the link provided regarded Palana devatta, you can see guruji uses the words 'He looks after the individual....'. For my own chart I have a Rahu-Saturn conjunction sixth from Amk, which Sanjay has advised me to worship as Balaji (a Visnu form associated with Rahu-Saturn conj). Ishta relates to the Sun, a masculine form. Palana relates to Moon (feminine form), and Palana also takes care of you like a Mother, so worship of Palana as a Devi is very valid, and taught by Guruji often. My problem lies with using nila shakti (Kali rupas) for Palana devatta. My understanding is that nila shakti is purifying, removing, etc. Instead, Palana devatta should be a form that is sustaining; either Visnu Rupa or Sri Shakti. My students are all aware of the forms and mantras for the Dasavatara. They are not aware of the various forms of Sri Shakti related to each of the grahas. There have been some teachings of these forms in SJC but I have not seen specific mantras given for each of these forms. I therefore prefer to use the forms of Sri Visnu which we are all aware of and in agreement upon. I am not criticizing the use of Nila Shakti for Palana devatta. I am just stating my own belief based upon gunas and reasoning. In some places in India, Nila Shaktis are used even for Ishta devatta, and their use is supported by various scriptures. When I personally chose a devatta for my own or someone else's worship, the first thing I take into account is [1] the relation of the gunas of the purpose of the worship relative to [2] the gunas of the devatta. One must also take into account the person's spiritual background, we would not ask a devout Christian or Muslim to worship Kurma Avatar if their Palana devatta (Saturn) was afflicted. We would have to understand the fundamental principles, and find a solution according to the individual's background, yet based about gunas and grahas. In this way Vedic science is universal. Namah Sivaya adhyaayin [adhyaayin] Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:47 PM sohamsa Re: #2 Palana Devata: Form of Sri Shakti or Sri Vishnu ? FOR PVR-ji Dear PVR-ji Thank you for clarifying my doubts and elavating me from the level of " adhyaayin " to " Sri Dakshinamurthy " :-) Annway, I am just a student. I totally agree with you and Nitin-ji on the sensibilities of choosing the palana deity. I just wanted to find out if there is an official parampara line on this matter. This is the link to Freedom-ji specific mp3 file (http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% 20Ishta.mp3). The last 30 seconds of the file have the statements. Sincere thanks to all SJC gurus for providing the mp3 lessons and other resources. Kind regards. Adhyaayin sohamsa , " pvr108 " <pvr@c...> wrote: > > Namaste Sri Dakshinamoorthi, > > One should realize that there are no perfect objective answers to > questions in astrology that relate to religion, spirituality and > philosophy. > > What I said in my class was based on the same thinking that was > outlined by Nitin below. Sanjay ji once taught me that it is > advisable to take a form of Vishnu as ishta devata and a form of > Devi as palana devata. > > The above is, however, not strictly following Pararsara. Parasara > outlines all gods when describing ishta and palana devatas. Thus, it > makes sense to accept any devata. At the same time, Sanjay ji's > specific guidance on using the forms of Vishnu and Devi is logical > too. > > Are you sure you are not mistaking what Freedom said regarding ishta > devata for palana devata? That is possible. > > In any case, in my humble view, you can worship any form of god as > ishta devata or palana devata. If Mars is in the 12th from AK in > navamsa and one worships Kartikeya or Bagalamukhi for moksha > (instead of Narasimha), I don't believe that that worship goes > wasted. Those gods may still take one closer to moksha. Similarly, > if Saturn is in 6th from AmK in navamsa and one worships Koorma Deva > or Vishnu Himself instead of Mother Kaali and asks for livelihood, > one's livelihood may still be taken care of. > > It is good to follow the advice of maharshis, tradition and gurus > whenever possible, but one should be flexible and focus on the > essence and spirit of the teachings. Sometimes, we can get stuck in > some details and miss the essence. Thumbrules are just that - > thumbrules. > > Understanding the TRUE nature of either Vishnu or Shiva or Shakti - > even one of them - is not easy. If someone feels close to one of the > three, I wouldn't mind recommending the forms of the same for all > purposes. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear Nitin-ji > > > > I had sent a reply to your response but for some reason it > > never got posted on the vedic astrology group. > > > > Thanks for the reference to the article. I have a copy. > > > > However even in that article under the " Palana devata " section > there > > is no reference to palana devata as a form of the mother. Many > > deities are listed. > > > > Personally i rightly agree with you and also belive in the > mother's > > form for palana devata. > > > > But in Sri Freedom-ji's mp3 (sjc vyasa) class > > http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% > 20Ishta.mp3 > > he mentions palana devata as a sri vishnu swarupa. > > > > In PVR-ji's mp3 classes (lesson no 20) he mentions palana devata > as a > > form of the mother. > > > > > > Please clarify this. > > > > Adhyaayin > > > > Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah > > > > > > sohamsa , " Nitin K " <sjc@j...> wrote: > > > > > > ||| Aum Krishna Guru ||| > > > > > > vedic astrology/message/68220 > > > > > > || Namah Shivaaya || > > > > > > > > > -- > > > " adhyaayin " <adhyaayin> > > > sohamsa > > > Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:40 -0000 > > > > > > >Dear Gurus > > > > > > > >Pranaams > > > > > > > >Please clear my confusion about the Palana Devata (6th from > AmK). > > > > > > > >On hearing the audio classes of PVR-ji my understanding was > that it > > > >should be a form of the mother corresponding to the planet. But > > > >recently I heard Freedom-ji's class mp3 (Vyasa SJC) that it > should > > be a > > > >form of Sri Vishnu. > > > > > > > >So I hope somebody could clarify this. > > > > > > > >Thanks and kind regards. > > > > > > > >Adhyaayin > > > > > > > >Om Sri Gurubhyo namah > *tat savitur varenyam* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 Hare Rama Krsna So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use a Sri Shakti rupa? To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most people associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way, isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional charakaraka. Namah Sivaya Sanjay Rath [guruji] Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~ Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please correct me) It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the Palana devatä. From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi. With best wishes & warm regards, Yours truly Sanjay Rath Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India Phone: +91.11.25717162 - Swee Chan [swee] Friday, December 23, 2005 3:05 PM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Jaya Jagannatha Dear Freedom, Namaste 6th from my AmK is Scorpio and both co-lords are exalted. I was taught to worship Bhaglamukhi for my Palana devata. Love, Swee sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of freedom Friday, December 23, 2005 9:31 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Hare Rama Krsna My view on the Palana Devata is that it is a deity that sustains us and therefore should be a sattvic (sustaining) devatta. Sanjay teaches a form of Visnu for Ishta, that is clear. This is according to our Parampara, as Parashara uses many deities. For Palana devatta, Guruji sometimes says Visnu and sometimes he says Devi. If you look at his writings on the link provided regarded Palana devatta, you can see guruji uses the words 'He looks after the individual....'. For my own chart I have a Rahu-Saturn conjunction sixth from Amk, which Sanjay has advised me to worship as Balaji (a Visnu form associated with Rahu-Saturn conj). Ishta relates to the Sun, a masculine form. Palana relates to Moon (feminine form), and Palana also takes care of you like a Mother, so worship of Palana as a Devi is very valid, and taught by Guruji often. My problem lies with using nila shakti (Kali rupas) for Palana devatta. My understanding is that nila shakti is purifying, removing, etc. Instead, Palana devatta should be a form that is sustaining; either Visnu Rupa or Sri Shakti. My students are all aware of the forms and mantras for the Dasavatara. They are not aware of the various forms of Sri Shakti related to each of the grahas. There have been some teachings of these forms in SJC but I have not seen specific mantras given for each of these forms. I therefore prefer to use the forms of Sri Visnu which we are all aware of and in agreement upon. I am not criticizing the use of Nila Shakti for Palana devatta. I am just stating my own belief based upon gunas and reasoning. In some places in India, Nila Shaktis are used even for Ishta devatta, and their use is supported by various scriptures. When I personally chose a devatta for my own or someone else's worship, the first thing I take into account is [1] the relation of the gunas of the purpose of the worship relative to [2] the gunas of the devatta. One must also take into account the person's spiritual background, we would not ask a devout Christian or Muslim to worship Kurma Avatar if their Palana devatta (Saturn) was afflicted. We would have to understand the fundamental principles, and find a solution according to the individual's background, yet based about gunas and grahas. In this way Vedic science is universal. Namah Sivaya adhyaayin [adhyaayin] Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:47 PM sohamsa Re: #2 Palana Devata: Form of Sri Shakti or Sri Vishnu ? FOR PVR-ji Dear PVR-ji Thank you for clarifying my doubts and elavating me from the level of " adhyaayin " to " Sri Dakshinamurthy " :-) Annway, I am just a student. I totally agree with you and Nitin-ji on the sensibilities of choosing the palana deity. I just wanted to find out if there is an official parampara line on this matter. This is the link to Freedom-ji specific mp3 file (http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% 20Ishta.mp3). The last 30 seconds of the file have the statements. Sincere thanks to all SJC gurus for providing the mp3 lessons and other resources. Kind regards. Adhyaayin sohamsa , " pvr108 " <pvr@c...> wrote: > > Namaste Sri Dakshinamoorthi, > > One should realize that there are no perfect objective answers to > questions in astrology that relate to religion, spirituality and > philosophy. > > What I said in my class was based on the same thinking that was > outlined by Nitin below. Sanjay ji once taught me that it is > advisable to take a form of Vishnu as ishta devata and a form of > Devi as palana devata. > > The above is, however, not strictly following Pararsara. Parasara > outlines all gods when describing ishta and palana devatas. Thus, it > makes sense to accept any devata. At the same time, Sanjay ji's > specific guidance on using the forms of Vishnu and Devi is logical > too. > > Are you sure you are not mistaking what Freedom said regarding ishta > devata for palana devata? That is possible. > > In any case, in my humble view, you can worship any form of god as > ishta devata or palana devata. If Mars is in the 12th from AK in > navamsa and one worships Kartikeya or Bagalamukhi for moksha > (instead of Narasimha), I don't believe that that worship goes > wasted. Those gods may still take one closer to moksha. Similarly, > if Saturn is in 6th from AmK in navamsa and one worships Koorma Deva > or Vishnu Himself instead of Mother Kaali and asks for livelihood, > one's livelihood may still be taken care of. > > It is good to follow the advice of maharshis, tradition and gurus > whenever possible, but one should be flexible and focus on the > essence and spirit of the teachings. Sometimes, we can get stuck in > some details and miss the essence. Thumbrules are just that - > thumbrules. > > Understanding the TRUE nature of either Vishnu or Shiva or Shakti - > even one of them - is not easy. If someone feels close to one of the > three, I wouldn't mind recommending the forms of the same for all > purposes. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear Nitin-ji > > > > I had sent a reply to your response but for some reason it > > never got posted on the vedic astrology group. > > > > Thanks for the reference to the article. I have a copy. > > > > However even in that article under the " Palana devata " section > there > > is no reference to palana devata as a form of the mother. Many > > deities are listed. > > > > Personally i rightly agree with you and also belive in the > mother's > > form for palana devata. > > > > But in Sri Freedom-ji's mp3 (sjc vyasa) class > > http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% > 20Ishta.mp3 > > he mentions palana devata as a sri vishnu swarupa. > > > > In PVR-ji's mp3 classes (lesson no 20) he mentions palana devata > as a > > form of the mother. > > > > > > Please clarify this. > > > > Adhyaayin > > > > Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah > > > > > > sohamsa , " Nitin K " <sjc@j...> wrote: > > > > > > ||| Aum Krishna Guru ||| > > > > > > vedic astrology/message/68220 > > > > > > || Namah Shivaaya || > > > > > > > > > -- > > > " adhyaayin " <adhyaayin> > > > sohamsa > > > Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:40 -0000 > > > > > > >Dear Gurus > > > > > > > >Pranaams > > > > > > > >Please clear my confusion about the Palana Devata (6th from > AmK). > > > > > > > >On hearing the audio classes of PVR-ji my understanding was > that it > > > >should be a form of the mother corresponding to the planet. But > > > >recently I heard Freedom-ji's class mp3 (Vyasa SJC) that it > should > > be a > > > >form of Sri Vishnu. > > > > > > > >So I hope somebody could clarify this. > > > > > > > >Thanks and kind regards. > > > > > > > >Adhyaayin > > > > > > > >Om Sri Gurubhyo namah > *tat savitur varenyam* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2005 Report Share Posted December 25, 2005 ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~ Dear Freedom Yes. The point was Devi, and Satvic form or Sri shakti is correct as Sri shakti is for sustenance which is the essence of palana. You have brought out the point well. Now as a second step can you also list the asta lakshmi form for this or maybe Narasimha can add this. With best wishes & warm regards, Yours truly Sanjay Rath Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India Phone: +91.11.25717162 - freedom [freedom] Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Hare Rama Krsna So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use a Sri Shakti rupa? To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most people associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way, isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional charakaraka. Namah Sivaya Sanjay Rath [guruji] Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~ Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please correct me) It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the Palana devatä. From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi. With best wishes & warm regards, Yours truly Sanjay Rath Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India Phone: +91.11.25717162 - Swee Chan [swee] Friday, December 23, 2005 3:05 PM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Jaya Jagannatha Dear Freedom, Namaste 6th from my AmK is Scorpio and both co-lords are exalted. I was taught to worship Bhaglamukhi for my Palana devata. Love, Swee sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of freedom Friday, December 23, 2005 9:31 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Hare Rama Krsna My view on the Palana Devata is that it is a deity that sustains us and therefore should be a sattvic (sustaining) devatta. Sanjay teaches a form of Visnu for Ishta, that is clear. This is according to our Parampara, as Parashara uses many deities. For Palana devatta, Guruji sometimes says Visnu and sometimes he says Devi. If you look at his writings on the link provided regarded Palana devatta, you can see guruji uses the words 'He looks after the individual....'. For my own chart I have a Rahu-Saturn conjunction sixth from Amk, which Sanjay has advised me to worship as Balaji (a Visnu form associated with Rahu-Saturn conj). Ishta relates to the Sun, a masculine form. Palana relates to Moon (feminine form), and Palana also takes care of you like a Mother, so worship of Palana as a Devi is very valid, and taught by Guruji often. My problem lies with using nila shakti (Kali rupas) for Palana devatta. My understanding is that nila shakti is purifying, removing, etc. Instead, Palana devatta should be a form that is sustaining; either Visnu Rupa or Sri Shakti. My students are all aware of the forms and mantras for the Dasavatara. They are not aware of the various forms of Sri Shakti related to each of the grahas. There have been some teachings of these forms in SJC but I have not seen specific mantras given for each of these forms. I therefore prefer to use the forms of Sri Visnu which we are all aware of and in agreement upon. I am not criticizing the use of Nila Shakti for Palana devatta. I am just stating my own belief based upon gunas and reasoning. In some places in India, Nila Shaktis are used even for Ishta devatta, and their use is supported by various scriptures. When I personally chose a devatta for my own or someone else's worship, the first thing I take into account is [1] the relation of the gunas of the purpose of the worship relative to [2] the gunas of the devatta. One must also take into account the person's spiritual background, we would not ask a devout Christian or Muslim to worship Kurma Avatar if their Palana devatta (Saturn) was afflicted. We would have to understand the fundamental principles, and find a solution according to the individual's background, yet based about gunas and grahas. In this way Vedic science is universal. Namah Sivaya adhyaayin [adhyaayin] Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:47 PM sohamsa Re: #2 Palana Devata: Form of Sri Shakti or Sri Vishnu ? FOR PVR-ji Dear PVR-ji Thank you for clarifying my doubts and elavating me from the level of " adhyaayin " to " Sri Dakshinamurthy " :-) Annway, I am just a student. I totally agree with you and Nitin-ji on the sensibilities of choosing the palana deity. I just wanted to find out if there is an official parampara line on this matter. This is the link to Freedom-ji specific mp3 file (http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% 20Ishta.mp3). The last 30 seconds of the file have the statements. Sincere thanks to all SJC gurus for providing the mp3 lessons and other resources. Kind regards. Adhyaayin sohamsa , " pvr108 " <pvr@c...> wrote: > > Namaste Sri Dakshinamoorthi, > > One should realize that there are no perfect objective answers to > questions in astrology that relate to religion, spirituality and > philosophy. > > What I said in my class was based on the same thinking that was > outlined by Nitin below. Sanjay ji once taught me that it is advisable > to take a form of Vishnu as ishta devata and a form of Devi as palana > devata. > > The above is, however, not strictly following Pararsara. Parasara > outlines all gods when describing ishta and palana devatas. Thus, it > makes sense to accept any devata. At the same time, Sanjay ji's > specific guidance on using the forms of Vishnu and Devi is logical > too. > > Are you sure you are not mistaking what Freedom said regarding ishta > devata for palana devata? That is possible. > > In any case, in my humble view, you can worship any form of god as > ishta devata or palana devata. If Mars is in the 12th from AK in > navamsa and one worships Kartikeya or Bagalamukhi for moksha (instead > of Narasimha), I don't believe that that worship goes wasted. Those > gods may still take one closer to moksha. Similarly, if Saturn is in > 6th from AmK in navamsa and one worships Koorma Deva > or Vishnu Himself instead of Mother Kaali and asks for livelihood, > one's livelihood may still be taken care of. > > It is good to follow the advice of maharshis, tradition and gurus > whenever possible, but one should be flexible and focus on the essence > and spirit of the teachings. Sometimes, we can get stuck in some > details and miss the essence. Thumbrules are just that - thumbrules. > > Understanding the TRUE nature of either Vishnu or Shiva or Shakti - > even one of them - is not easy. If someone feels close to one of the > three, I wouldn't mind recommending the forms of the same for all > purposes. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri > Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear Nitin-ji > > > > I had sent a reply to your response but for some reason it never got > > posted on the vedic astrology group. > > > > Thanks for the reference to the article. I have a copy. > > > > However even in that article under the " Palana devata " section > there > > is no reference to palana devata as a form of the mother. Many > > deities are listed. > > > > Personally i rightly agree with you and also belive in the > mother's > > form for palana devata. > > > > But in Sri Freedom-ji's mp3 (sjc vyasa) class > > http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% > 20Ishta.mp3 > > he mentions palana devata as a sri vishnu swarupa. > > > > In PVR-ji's mp3 classes (lesson no 20) he mentions palana devata > as a > > form of the mother. > > > > > > Please clarify this. > > > > Adhyaayin > > > > Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah > > > > > > sohamsa , " Nitin K " <sjc@j...> wrote: > > > > > > ||| Aum Krishna Guru ||| > > > > > > vedic astrology/message/68220 > > > > > > || Namah Shivaaya || > > > > > > > > > -- > > > " adhyaayin " <adhyaayin> > > > sohamsa > > > Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:40 -0000 > > > > > > >Dear Gurus > > > > > > > >Pranaams > > > > > > > >Please clear my confusion about the Palana Devata (6th from > AmK). > > > > > > > >On hearing the audio classes of PVR-ji my understanding was > that it > > > >should be a form of the mother corresponding to the planet. But > > > >recently I heard Freedom-ji's class mp3 (Vyasa SJC) that it > should > > be a > > > >form of Sri Vishnu. > > > > > > > >So I hope somebody could clarify this. > > > > > > > >Thanks and kind regards. > > > > > > > >Adhyaayin > > > > > > > >Om Sri Gurubhyo namah > *tat savitur varenyam* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2005 Report Share Posted December 25, 2005 Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Freedom and Sanjayp, Sanjay Prabhakaran has specifically given the Dasa Mahavidyas for the palana devatas. To the best of my knowledge, whether westerner or Indian, beginner or advanced, the Dasa Mahavidyas are to be prescribed only under very special circumstances and only when the jyotishi is sure that the Mahavidya will not be misused or misunderstood. Dasa Mahavidyas help in rescuing the native from deep distress and mire, when all other avenues fail. I have been taught in my initial classes, that Mahavidya is to be rarely prescribed. Of course, I see a different trend nowadays. Palana devata will naturally be not one of the Mahavidyas, but a saumya rupa of the devi. Saumya may include either Sri or Bhu shakti. On the other hand, if you meet a native who has been a Kali sadhak for centuries, and his palana devata indicates Saturn or Saturn/Moon associations, then one would obviously prescribe Kali as the palana devata for such a native. Such a sadhaka would anyways not perceive Kali as a nila shakti but as the All Compassionate Mother. So I think we look at saumya rupas whenever prescribing Devi mantras, unless there are other indications or necessities in the chart. Palana devata deities therefore can not only be forms of Lakshmi, but Saraswati, Durga, Annapurna, Jagaddhatri etc. Best regards, Sarbani freedom [freedom] Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Hare Rama Krsna So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use a Sri Shakti rupa? To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most people associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way, isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional charakaraka. Namah Sivaya Sanjay Rath [guruji] Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~ Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please correct me) It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the Palana devatä. From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi. With best wishes & warm regards, Yours truly Sanjay Rath Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India Phone: +91.11.25717162 - Swee Chan [swee] Friday, December 23, 2005 3:05 PM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Jaya Jagannatha Dear Freedom, Namaste 6th from my AmK is Scorpio and both co-lords are exalted. I was taught to worship Bhaglamukhi for my Palana devata. Love, Swee sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of freedom Friday, December 23, 2005 9:31 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Hare Rama Krsna My view on the Palana Devata is that it is a deity that sustains us and therefore should be a sattvic (sustaining) devatta. Sanjay teaches a form of Visnu for Ishta, that is clear. This is according to our Parampara, as Parashara uses many deities. For Palana devatta, Guruji sometimes says Visnu and sometimes he says Devi. If you look at his writings on the link provided regarded Palana devatta, you can see guruji uses the words 'He looks after the individual....'. For my own chart I have a Rahu-Saturn conjunction sixth from Amk, which Sanjay has advised me to worship as Balaji (a Visnu form associated with Rahu-Saturn conj). Ishta relates to the Sun, a masculine form. Palana relates to Moon (feminine form), and Palana also takes care of you like a Mother, so worship of Palana as a Devi is very valid, and taught by Guruji often. My problem lies with using nila shakti (Kali rupas) for Palana devatta. My understanding is that nila shakti is purifying, removing, etc. Instead, Palana devatta should be a form that is sustaining; either Visnu Rupa or Sri Shakti. My students are all aware of the forms and mantras for the Dasavatara. They are not aware of the various forms of Sri Shakti related to each of the grahas. There have been some teachings of these forms in SJC but I have not seen specific mantras given for each of these forms. I therefore prefer to use the forms of Sri Visnu which we are all aware of and in agreement upon. I am not criticizing the use of Nila Shakti for Palana devatta. I am just stating my own belief based upon gunas and reasoning. In some places in India, Nila Shaktis are used even for Ishta devatta, and their use is supported by various scriptures. When I personally chose a devatta for my own or someone else's worship, the first thing I take into account is [1] the relation of the gunas of the purpose of the worship relative to [2] the gunas of the devatta. One must also take into account the person's spiritual background, we would not ask a devout Christian or Muslim to worship Kurma Avatar if their Palana devatta (Saturn) was afflicted. We would have to understand the fundamental principles, and find a solution according to the individual's background, yet based about gunas and grahas. In this way Vedic science is universal. Namah Sivaya adhyaayin [adhyaayin] Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:47 PM sohamsa Re: #2 Palana Devata: Form of Sri Shakti or Sri Vishnu ? FOR PVR-ji Dear PVR-ji Thank you for clarifying my doubts and elavating me from the level of " adhyaayin " to " Sri Dakshinamurthy " :-) Annway, I am just a student. I totally agree with you and Nitin-ji on the sensibilities of choosing the palana deity. I just wanted to find out if there is an official parampara line on this matter. This is the link to Freedom-ji specific mp3 file (http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% 20Ishta.mp3). The last 30 seconds of the file have the statements. Sincere thanks to all SJC gurus for providing the mp3 lessons and other resources. Kind regards. Adhyaayin sohamsa , " pvr108 " <pvr@c...> wrote: > > Namaste Sri Dakshinamoorthi, > > One should realize that there are no perfect objective answers to > questions in astrology that relate to religion, spirituality and > philosophy. > > What I said in my class was based on the same thinking that was > outlined by Nitin below. Sanjay ji once taught me that it is advisable > to take a form of Vishnu as ishta devata and a form of Devi as palana > devata. > > The above is, however, not strictly following Pararsara. Parasara > outlines all gods when describing ishta and palana devatas. Thus, it > makes sense to accept any devata. At the same time, Sanjay ji's > specific guidance on using the forms of Vishnu and Devi is logical > too. > > Are you sure you are not mistaking what Freedom said regarding ishta > devata for palana devata? That is possible. > > In any case, in my humble view, you can worship any form of god as > ishta devata or palana devata. If Mars is in the 12th from AK in > navamsa and one worships Kartikeya or Bagalamukhi for moksha (instead > of Narasimha), I don't believe that that worship goes wasted. Those > gods may still take one closer to moksha. Similarly, if Saturn is in > 6th from AmK in navamsa and one worships Koorma Deva > or Vishnu Himself instead of Mother Kaali and asks for livelihood, > one's livelihood may still be taken care of. > > It is good to follow the advice of maharshis, tradition and gurus > whenever possible, but one should be flexible and focus on the essence > and spirit of the teachings. Sometimes, we can get stuck in some > details and miss the essence. Thumbrules are just that - thumbrules. > > Understanding the TRUE nature of either Vishnu or Shiva or Shakti - > even one of them - is not easy. If someone feels close to one of the > three, I wouldn't mind recommending the forms of the same for all > purposes. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri > Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear Nitin-ji > > > > I had sent a reply to your response but for some reason it never got > > posted on the vedic astrology group. > > > > Thanks for the reference to the article. I have a copy. > > > > However even in that article under the " Palana devata " section > there > > is no reference to palana devata as a form of the mother. Many > > deities are listed. > > > > Personally i rightly agree with you and also belive in the > mother's > > form for palana devata. > > > > But in Sri Freedom-ji's mp3 (sjc vyasa) class > > http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% > 20Ishta.mp3 > > he mentions palana devata as a sri vishnu swarupa. > > > > In PVR-ji's mp3 classes (lesson no 20) he mentions palana devata > as a > > form of the mother. > > > > > > Please clarify this. > > > > Adhyaayin > > > > Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah > > > > > > sohamsa , " Nitin K " <sjc@j...> wrote: > > > > > > ||| Aum Krishna Guru ||| > > > > > > vedic astrology/message/68220 > > > > > > || Namah Shivaaya || > > > > > > > > > -- > > > " adhyaayin " <adhyaayin> > > > sohamsa > > > Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:40 -0000 > > > > > > >Dear Gurus > > > > > > > >Pranaams > > > > > > > >Please clear my confusion about the Palana Devata (6th from > AmK). > > > > > > > >On hearing the audio classes of PVR-ji my understanding was > that it > > > >should be a form of the mother corresponding to the planet. But > > > >recently I heard Freedom-ji's class mp3 (Vyasa SJC) that it > should > > be a > > > >form of Sri Vishnu. > > > > > > > >So I hope somebody could clarify this. > > > > > > > >Thanks and kind regards. > > > > > > > >Adhyaayin > > > > > > > >Om Sri Gurubhyo namah > *tat savitur varenyam* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005  ~~ om sadÄÅ›iva gurave namah ~~ Dear Murali Nothing is just from the navamsa. We have to see ifthe person is readyand the extent of bhakti he can have. Everyone is not a Sri Prabhupada who will have Moon as Ista devata and also conjoined the fifth lord in rasi chart to show Krishna bhakti. We have to see the other attributes from the rasi chart. I will be dealing with this and other questions in the Delhi conference. please come if you are in Delhi. With best wishes & warm regards, Yours truly Sanjay Rath Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India Phone: +91.11.25717162 - adhyaayin [adhyaayin] Sunday, December 25, 2005 11:32 AMsohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata Dear Sanjay Guruji and other gurusThanks for clarifying the palana devata issue in detail. Please call me murli.Ultimately one related doubt I have is that, would you still recommend the deities for a person who is already practising various mantras and slokas. After studying articles published by yourself and other sjc gurus I have come across several deities (ishta, palana, dharma, guru, dasamsa deity, 5th from karakamsa for knowledge).When recommending a deity can we simply look at the chara karakas and give a devata or should we seriously study the position of these planets back in the rashi chart ?I hope in in the future there will be some articles with a deeper analysis of the personal deities.Pranaams.MurliOm Sri Gurubhyo Namahsohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...> wrote:>> > > > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please> correct me)> > It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is> more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and> nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered> to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to> be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. > > Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your> Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart> the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and> hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the> Palana devatä.> > From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana> devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more> mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has> advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of> naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com> Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162> -> > > Swee Chan [swee@c...] > Friday, December 23, 2005 3:05 PM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Jaya Jagannatha> > Dear Freedom,> Namaste> > 6th from my AmK is Scorpio and both co-lords are exalted. I was taught to> worship Bhaglamukhi for my Palana devata.> > Love,> Swee> > > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of> freedom> Friday, December 23, 2005 9:31 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Hare Rama Krsna> > My view on the Palana Devata is that it is a deity that sustains us and> therefore should be a sattvic (sustaining) devatta. > > Sanjay teaches a form of Visnu for Ishta, that is clear. This is according> to our Parampara, as Parashara uses many deities. > > For Palana devatta, Guruji sometimes says Visnu and sometimes he says Devi.> If you look at his writings on the link provided regarded Palana devatta,> you can see guruji uses the words 'He looks after the individual....'. For> my own chart I have a Rahu-Saturn conjunction sixth from Amk, which Sanjay> has advised me to worship as Balaji (a Visnu form associated with> Rahu-Saturn conj). > > Ishta relates to the Sun, a masculine form. Palana relates to Moon (feminine> form), and Palana also takes care of you like a Mother, so worship of Palana> as a Devi is very valid, and taught by Guruji often.> > My problem lies with using nila shakti (Kali rupas) for Palana devatta. My> understanding is that nila shakti is purifying, removing, etc. Instead,> Palana devatta should be a form that is sustaining; either Visnu Rupa or Sri> Shakti. My students are all aware of the forms and mantras for the> Dasavatara. They are not aware of the various forms of Sri Shakti related to> each of the grahas. There have been some teachings of these forms in SJC but> I have not seen specific mantras given for each of these forms. I therefore> prefer to use the forms of Sri Visnu which we are all aware of and in> agreement upon. > > I am not criticizing the use of Nila Shakti for Palana devatta. I am just> stating my own belief based upon gunas and reasoning. In some places in> India, Nila Shaktis are used even for Ishta devatta, and their use is> supported by various scriptures. > > When I personally chose a devatta for my own or someone else's worship, the> first thing I take into account is [1] the relation of the gunas of the> purpose of the worship relative to [2] the gunas of the devatta. One must> also take into account the person's spiritual background, we would not ask a> devout Christian or Muslim to worship Kurma Avatar if their Palana devatta> (Saturn) was afflicted. We would have to understand the fundamental> principles, and find a solution according to the individual's background,> yet based about gunas and grahas. In this way Vedic science is universal.> > Namah Sivaya > > > > > > adhyaayin [adhyaayin]> Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:47 PM> sohamsa > Re: #2 Palana Devata: Form of Sri Shakti or Sri Vishnu ?> FOR PVR-ji> > > Dear PVR-ji> > Thank you for clarifying my doubts and elavating me from the level > of "adhyaayin" to "Sri Dakshinamurthy" :-)> > Annway, I am just a student.> > I totally agree with you and Nitin-ji on the sensibilities of > choosing the palana deity. > > I just wanted to find out if there is an official parampara line on > this matter. This is the link to Freedom-ji specific mp3 file > (http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006%> 20Ishta.mp3). The last 30 seconds of the file have the statements.> > Sincere thanks to all SJC gurus for providing the mp3 lessons and > other resources. > > Kind regards.> > Adhyaayin> > > > > > sohamsa , "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:> >> > Namaste Sri Dakshinamoorthi,> > > > One should realize that there are no perfect objective answers to > > questions in astrology that relate to religion, spirituality and > > philosophy.> > > > What I said in my class was based on the same thinking that was > > outlined by Nitin below. Sanjay ji once taught me that it is > > advisable to take a form of Vishnu as ishta devata and a form of > > Devi as palana devata.> > > > The above is, however, not strictly following Pararsara. Parasara > > outlines all gods when describing ishta and palana devatas. Thus, > it > > makes sense to accept any devata. At the same time, Sanjay ji's > > specific guidance on using the forms of Vishnu and Devi is logical > > too.> > > > Are you sure you are not mistaking what Freedom said regarding > ishta > > devata for palana devata? That is possible.> > > > In any case, in my humble view, you can worship any form of god as > > ishta devata or palana devata. If Mars is in the 12th from AK in > > navamsa and one worships Kartikeya or Bagalamukhi for moksha > > (instead of Narasimha), I don't believe that that worship goes > > wasted. Those gods may still take one closer to moksha. Similarly, > > if Saturn is in 6th from AmK in navamsa and one worships Koorma > Deva > > or Vishnu Himself instead of Mother Kaali and asks for livelihood, > > one's livelihood may still be taken care of.> > > > It is good to follow the advice of maharshis, tradition and gurus > > whenever possible, but one should be flexible and focus on the > > essence and spirit of the teachings. Sometimes, we can get stuck in > > some details and miss the essence. Thumbrules are just that - > > thumbrules.> > > > Understanding the TRUE nature of either Vishnu or Shiva or Shakti - > > even one of them - is not easy. If someone feels close to one of > the > > three, I wouldn't mind recommending the forms of the same for all > > purposes.> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,> > Narasimha> > -------------------------------> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > -------------------------------> > > > > Dear Nitin-ji> > > > > > I had sent a reply to your response but for some reason it> > > never got posted on the vedic astrology group. > > > > > > Thanks for the reference to the article. I have a copy.> > > > > > However even in that article under the "Palana devata" section > > there > > > is no reference to palana devata as a form of the mother. Many > > > deities are listed.> > > > > > Personally i rightly agree with you and also belive in the > > mother's > > > form for palana devata.> > > > > > But in Sri Freedom-ji's mp3 (sjc vyasa) class > > > http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006%> > 20Ishta.mp3> > > he mentions palana devata as a sri vishnu swarupa.> > > > > > In PVR-ji's mp3 classes (lesson no 20) he mentions palana devata > > as a > > > form of the mother.> > > > > > > > > Please clarify this.> > > > > > Adhyaayin> > > > > > Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah> > > > > > > > > sohamsa , "Nitin K" <sjc@j...> wrote:> > > >> > > > ||| Aum Krishna Guru |||> > > > > > > > vedic astrology/message/68220> > > > > > > > || Namah Shivaaya ||> > > > > > > > > > > > --> > > > "adhyaayin" <adhyaayin>> > > > sohamsa > > > > Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:40 -0000> > > > > > > > >Dear Gurus> > > > >> > > > >Pranaams> > > > >> > > > >Please clear my confusion about the Palana Devata (6th from > > AmK).> > > > >> > > > >On hearing the audio classes of PVR-ji my understanding was > > that it> > > > >should be a form of the mother corresponding to the planet. But> > > > >recently I heard Freedom-ji's class mp3 (Vyasa SJC) that it > > should > > > be a> > > > >form of Sri Vishnu.> > > > >> > > > >So I hope somebody could clarify this.> > > > >> > > > >Thanks and kind regards.> > > > >> > > > >Adhyaayin> > > > >> > > > >Om Sri Gurubhyo namah> >> > > > > > > > *tat savitur varenyam* > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Guruji, Sarbani, I understood Sri Shakti to be worship for Palana Devata. But, Let's say the Palana Devata Graha is Saturn and have strong relationship with 12th from UL-C . In such a case, can't we reccomend worship Kali Rupa ? I feel such a native shall not misuse it, but will inprove Satvik qualities as well as purity of mind ? Thanks Karu ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~ Dear Freedom Yes. The point was Devi, and Satvic form or Sri shakti is correct as Sri shakti is for sustenance which is the essence of palana. You have brought out the point well. Now as a second step can you also list the asta lakshmi form for this or maybe Narasimha can add this. With best wishes & warm regards, Yours truly Sanjay Rath Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India Phone: +91.11.25717162 - freedom [freedom] Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Hare Rama Krsna So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use a Sri Shakti rupa? To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most people associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way, isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional charakaraka. Namah Sivaya Sanjay Rath [guruji] Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~ Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please correct me) It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the Palana devatä. From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi. With best wishes & warm regards, Yours truly Sanjay Rath Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India Phone: +91.11.25717162 - Swee Chan [swee] Friday, December 23, 2005 3:05 PM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Jaya Jagannatha Dear Freedom, Namaste 6th from my AmK is Scorpio and both co-lords are exalted. I was taught to worship Bhaglamukhi for my Palana devata. Love, Swee sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of freedom Friday, December 23, 2005 9:31 AM sohamsa RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata Hare Rama Krsna My view on the Palana Devata is that it is a deity that sustains us and therefore should be a sattvic (sustaining) devatta. Sanjay teaches a form of Visnu for Ishta, that is clear. This is according to our Parampara, as Parashara uses many deities. For Palana devatta, Guruji sometimes says Visnu and sometimes he says Devi. If you look at his writings on the link provided regarded Palana devatta, you can see guruji uses the words 'He looks after the individual....'. For my own chart I have a Rahu-Saturn conjunction sixth from Amk, which Sanjay has advised me to worship as Balaji (a Visnu form associated with Rahu-Saturn conj). Ishta relates to the Sun, a masculine form. Palana relates to Moon (feminine form), and Palana also takes care of you like a Mother, so worship of Palana as a Devi is very valid, and taught by Guruji often. My problem lies with using nila shakti (Kali rupas) for Palana devatta. My understanding is that nila shakti is purifying, removing, etc. Instead, Palana devatta should be a form that is sustaining; either Visnu Rupa or Sri Shakti. My students are all aware of the forms and mantras for the Dasavatara. They are not aware of the various forms of Sri Shakti related to each of the grahas. There have been some teachings of these forms in SJC but I have not seen specific mantras given for each of these forms. I therefore prefer to use the forms of Sri Visnu which we are all aware of and in agreement upon. I am not criticizing the use of Nila Shakti for Palana devatta. I am just stating my own belief based upon gunas and reasoning. In some places in India, Nila Shaktis are used even for Ishta devatta, and their use is supported by various scriptures. When I personally chose a devatta for my own or someone else's worship, the first thing I take into account is [1] the relation of the gunas of the purpose of the worship relative to [2] the gunas of the devatta. One must also take into account the person's spiritual background, we would not ask a devout Christian or Muslim to worship Kurma Avatar if their Palana devatta (Saturn) was afflicted. We would have to understand the fundamental principles, and find a solution according to the individual's background, yet based about gunas and grahas. In this way Vedic science is universal. Namah Sivaya adhyaayin [adhyaayin] Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:47 PM sohamsa Re: #2 Palana Devata: Form of Sri Shakti or Sri Vishnu ? FOR PVR-ji Dear PVR-ji Thank you for clarifying my doubts and elavating me from the level of " adhyaayin " to " Sri Dakshinamurthy " :-) Annway, I am just a student. I totally agree with you and Nitin-ji on the sensibilities of choosing the palana deity. I just wanted to find out if there is an official parampara line on this matter. This is the link to Freedom-ji specific mp3 file (http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% 20Ishta.mp3). The last 30 seconds of the file have the statements. Sincere thanks to all SJC gurus for providing the mp3 lessons and other resources. Kind regards. Adhyaayin sohamsa , " pvr108 " <pvr@c...> wrote: > > Namaste Sri Dakshinamoorthi, > > One should realize that there are no perfect objective answers to > questions in astrology that relate to religion, spirituality and > philosophy. > > What I said in my class was based on the same thinking that was > outlined by Nitin below. Sanjay ji once taught me that it is advisable > to take a form of Vishnu as ishta devata and a form of Devi as palana > devata. > > The above is, however, not strictly following Pararsara. Parasara > outlines all gods when describing ishta and palana devatas. Thus, it > makes sense to accept any devata. At the same time, Sanjay ji's > specific guidance on using the forms of Vishnu and Devi is logical > too. > > Are you sure you are not mistaking what Freedom said regarding ishta > devata for palana devata? That is possible. > > In any case, in my humble view, you can worship any form of god as > ishta devata or palana devata. If Mars is in the 12th from AK in > navamsa and one worships Kartikeya or Bagalamukhi for moksha (instead > of Narasimha), I don't believe that that worship goes wasted. Those > gods may still take one closer to moksha. Similarly, if Saturn is in > 6th from AmK in navamsa and one worships Koorma Deva > or Vishnu Himself instead of Mother Kaali and asks for livelihood, > one's livelihood may still be taken care of. > > It is good to follow the advice of maharshis, tradition and gurus > whenever possible, but one should be flexible and focus on the essence > and spirit of the teachings. Sometimes, we can get stuck in some > details and miss the essence. Thumbrules are just that - thumbrules. > > Understanding the TRUE nature of either Vishnu or Shiva or Shakti - > even one of them - is not easy. If someone feels close to one of the > three, I wouldn't mind recommending the forms of the same for all > purposes. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri > Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear Nitin-ji > > > > I had sent a reply to your response but for some reason it never got > > posted on the vedic astrology group. > > > > Thanks for the reference to the article. I have a copy. > > > > However even in that article under the " Palana devata " section > there > > is no reference to palana devata as a form of the mother. Many > > deities are listed. > > > > Personally i rightly agree with you and also belive in the > mother's > > form for palana devata. > > > > But in Sri Freedom-ji's mp3 (sjc vyasa) class > > http://shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/lecture/01/2005-9-25%2006% > 20Ishta.mp3 > > he mentions palana devata as a sri vishnu swarupa. > > > > In PVR-ji's mp3 classes (lesson no 20) he mentions palana devata > as a > > form of the mother. > > > > > > Please clarify this. > > > > Adhyaayin > > > > Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah > > > > > > sohamsa , " Nitin K " <sjc@j...> wrote: > > > > > > ||| Aum Krishna Guru ||| > > > > > > vedic astrology/message/68220 > > > > > > || Namah Shivaaya || > > > > > > > > > -- > > > " adhyaayin " <adhyaayin> > > > sohamsa > > > Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:40 -0000 > > > > > > >Dear Gurus > > > > > > > >Pranaams > > > > > > > >Please clear my confusion about the Palana Devata (6th from > AmK). > > > > > > > >On hearing the audio classes of PVR-ji my understanding was > that it > > > >should be a form of the mother corresponding to the planet. But > > > >recently I heard Freedom-ji's class mp3 (Vyasa SJC) that it > should > > be a > > > >form of Sri Vishnu. > > > > > > > >So I hope somebody could clarify this. > > > > > > > >Thanks and kind regards. > > > > > > > >Adhyaayin > > > > > > > >Om Sri Gurubhyo namah > *tat savitur varenyam* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Narasimha, Namaste. Actually you penned my very thoughts! You wrote: This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. This is what I wanted to say but did not get around to it. Mahavidyas impart Brahmagyana. That is why they are called maha vidya. I find it quite amusing to see people trapped in exploring their base energies for relief from material and physical problems. What a waste of sadhana! You are very right in pointing out that all forms of the Mahavidyas are not Nila shakti. Kamalatmika, Bhuvaneswari and Tripurasundari stand out as exceptions with Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari being embodiments of Sri shakti. Although the Mahavidyas as a group represent Nila shakti. In the Devi Bhagavat and other puranas where the inception of the mahavidyas are described, it is said that Gouri got extremely angry on Shiva as the latter prevented her from attending Daksha's infamous yagna. Shiva ran from her, however whichever corner he ran to, a terrible form of the devi appeared. He ran helter skelter to the ten dikas, running away from one fearsome devi form to another. The ten devi forms in the ten dikas are the Dasa Mahavidyas. So Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari also took fearsome forms although they are not ugra rupas; that is why perhaps we tend to make the mistake. I remember Sanjayji saying, "don't ever make the mistake that Kamalatmika is a sweet, lotus lady. She is the most difficult of them all." What I meant by saumya forms for palana devatas are other forms of the devi. Because of the word palana being used, the discussion on the list has been on Sri Shakti. But Saraswati as we worship her (and not Nila Saraswati who is quite different and a Tara shakti) even Durga and Jagaddhatri can fit the bill along with Annapurna and Lakshmi. So we can say Durga but not Chamunda; Lakshmi but not Kamalatmika etc. Kali per se appears ugra; even Dakshina Kali. As I wrote in my earlier mail a Kali sadhaka who has Saturn/Moon/Venus as the palana devata can safely assume Kali to be his/her palana devata. He would be anyways perceiving her as Karunamayi, the All Compassionate One, who looks after him. After all She is that depending on how we perceive Her. Best Regards, Sarbani Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] Monday, December 26, 2005 8:41 PMsohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata Namaste Sarbani and others, My 2 cents on this. Please ignore if it doesn't make sense... As I understand, not all Dasa maha vidyas are forms of Nila shakti. Also, it is not a question of saumya vs ugra. Dasa maha vidyas not only include Kali and Chhinna Masta, but Kamala and Bhuvaneswari too! Even within one Mahavidya, there are several manifestations that are different. For example, Bhadra Kaali and Smasaana Kaali are considerably different. I do agree with the reservations you expressed about Dasa Mahavidyas being prescribed as palana devatas. As per my little understanding of the Mother, Maha vidyas impart the most supreme knowledge, as the name implies. She is the Chetas that causes motion in Chit. She is the reason for our independent existence (without Chetas, we would have just been Chit). She is the one who can give us the highest knowledge, i.e. knowledge of the relationship between Chit and Chetas, how Chetas manifests and works and how we can go back to the original state of Chit. Mahavidyas give a perfect understanding of the nature of Chetas. This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha. To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. If you don't want to transcend Chetas, but want to be limited by it and want to manipulate it to apparently benefit your limited existence within it, there are other forms of Mother who can do that for you. Mahavidyas are relevant only when you want to transcend. I hope more learned Devi bhaktas do not find my views too silly. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- sohamsa , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:>> Shri Brahmadaru Smarami> > Dear Freedom and Sanjayp,> > Sanjay Prabhakaran has specifically given the Dasa Mahavidyas for the palana> devatas. To the best of my knowledge, whether westerner or Indian, beginner> or advanced, the Dasa Mahavidyas are to be prescribed only under very> special circumstances and only when the jyotishi is sure that the Mahavidya> will not be misused or misunderstood. Dasa Mahavidyas help in rescuing the> native from deep distress and mire, when all other avenues fail. I have been> taught in my initial classes, that Mahavidya is to be rarely prescribed. Of> course, I see a different trend nowadays. Palana devata will naturally be> not one of the Mahavidyas, but a saumya rupa of the devi. Saumya may include> either Sri or Bhu shakti. On the other hand, if you meet a native who has> been a Kali sadhak for centuries, and his palana devata indicates Saturn or> Saturn/Moon associations, then one would obviously prescribe Kali as the> palana devata for such a native. Such a sadhaka would anyways not perceive> Kali as a nila shakti but as the All Compassionate Mother. > > So I think we look at saumya rupas whenever prescribing Devi mantras, unless> there are other indications or necessities in the chart. Palana devata> deities therefore can not only be forms of Lakshmi, but Saraswati, Durga,> Annapurna, Jagaddhatri etc.> > Best regards,> > Sarbani> > > > freedom [freedom@s...] > Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Hare Rama Krsna> > So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use> a Sri Shakti rupa? > > To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for> Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full> implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most> people associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay> Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. > > In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter> too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are> supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the> most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way,> isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining> purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana> devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless> that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much> more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional> charakaraka. > > Namah Sivaya> > > Sanjay Rath [guruji@s...]> Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please> correct me)> > It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is> more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and> nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered> to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to> be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. > > Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your> Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart> the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and> hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the> Palana devatä.> > From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana> devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more> mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has> advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of> naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri> SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162> - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Dear Sarbani, Sorry for jumping in, but the discussion is so very interesting, i just couldn't help it:--)) Ofcourse, Mother is all Love, but there are nuances and shades in the way she demonstrates it. She could cuddle and She could wallop too and she does both these things because She cares. Durga might be a softer version of Chamundi, but still I don't think you can call Her saattwik. She's more rajasik because She had manifested in response to the desire of the devas, in order to achieve a kshatriyan end. Infact, a couple of months ago I tried to do more Durga worship, because I keep seeing Her in dreams and since I am also running Rahu maha dasa, I thought i'd give it a try!! But, believe me, it had generated a very restless & uneasy feeling in me, so I had reverted to my earlier schedule. Do you think it happened because Jupiter and Sun are the key planets in my natal chart and I was indirectly strengthening Rahu, their arch enemy, through this worship? Perhaps Lalitha Tripura Sundari is more apt as my palana devata & ishta, because She corresponds to the Vishnu avatara of Vamana (Jupiter) who filled the Three worlds as Trivikrama. In Thakur's chart, Saturn(his lagna lord) is just magnificent and so is Rahu, hence his worship of Mother in the form of Kali (Saturn)suited him perfectly and became a blessing for the world. So, probably it is the most powerful planet (s) and the overall tenor of the chart that influence the conscious/unconscious choice of the Devi Form. Just my two cents because I hardly know any thing about Dasa Maha Vidyas and definitely would like to learn more from an authority like you. Regards, Lakshmi Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Narasimha, Namaste. Actually you penned my very thoughts! You wrote: This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha.To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. This is what I wanted to say but did not get around to it. Mahavidyas impart Brahmagyana. That is why they are called maha vidya. I find it quite amusing to see people trapped in exploring their base energies for relief from material and physical problems. What a waste of sadhana! You are very right in pointing out that all forms of the Mahavidyas are not Nila shakti. Kamalatmika, Bhuvaneswari and Tripurasundari stand out as exceptions with Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari being embodiments of Sri shakti. Although the Mahavidyas as a group represent Nila shakti. In the Devi Bhagavat and other puranas where the inception of the mahavidyas are described, it is said that Gouri got extremely angry on Shiva as the latter prevented her from attending Daksha's infamous yagna. Shiva ran from her, however whichever corner he ran to, a terrible form of the devi appeared. He ran helter skelter to the ten dikas, running away from one fearsome devi form to another. The ten devi forms in the ten dikas are the Dasa Mahavidyas. So Kamalatmika and Tripurasundari also took fearsome forms although they are not ugra rupas; that is why perhaps we tend to make the mistake. I remember Sanjayji saying, "don't ever make the mistake that Kamalatmika is a sweet, lotus lady. She is the most difficult of them all." What I meant by saumya forms for palana devatas are other forms of the devi. Because of the word palana being used, the discussion on the list has been on Sri Shakti. But Saraswati as we worship her (and not Nila Saraswati who is quite different and a Tara shakti) even Durga and Jagaddhatri can fit the bill along with Annapurna and Lakshmi. So we can say Durga but not Chamunda; Lakshmi but not Kamalatmika etc. Kali per se appears ugra; even Dakshina Kali. As I wrote in my earlier mail a Kali sadhaka who has Saturn/Moon/Venus as the palana devata can safely assume Kali to be his/her palana devata. He would be anyways perceiving her as Karunamayi, the All Compassionate One, who looks after him. After all She is that depending on how we perceive Her. Best Regards, Sarbani Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] Monday, December 26, 2005 8:41 PMsohamsa Subject: Re: #2 Palana Devata Namaste Sarbani and others, My 2 cents on this. Please ignore if it doesn't make sense... As I understand, not all Dasa maha vidyas are forms of Nila shakti. Also, it is not a question of saumya vs ugra. Dasa maha vidyas not only include Kali and Chhinna Masta, but Kamala and Bhuvaneswari too! Even within one Mahavidya, there are several manifestations that are different. For example, Bhadra Kaali and Smasaana Kaali are considerably different. I do agree with the reservations you expressed about Dasa Mahavidyas being prescribed as palana devatas. As per my little understanding of the Mother, Maha vidyas impart the most supreme knowledge, as the name implies. She is the Chetas that causes motion in Chit. She is the reason for our independent existence (without Chetas, we would have just been Chit). She is the one who can give us the highest knowledge, i.e. knowledge of the relationship between Chit and Chetas, how Chetas manifests and works and how we can go back to the original state of Chit. Mahavidyas give a perfect understanding of the nature of Chetas. This is the highest knowledge, because it enables moksha. To ask Mahavidyas for any material benefits is inappropriate. For that, one better worship other forms of the Mother. If you don't want to transcend Chetas, but want to be limited by it and want to manipulate it to apparently benefit your limited existence within it, there are other forms of Mother who can do that for you. Mahavidyas are relevant only when you want to transcend. I hope more learned Devi bhaktas do not find my views too silly. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- sohamsa , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:>> Shri Brahmadaru Smarami> > Dear Freedom and Sanjayp,> > Sanjay Prabhakaran has specifically given the Dasa Mahavidyas for the palana> devatas. To the best of my knowledge, whether westerner or Indian, beginner> or advanced, the Dasa Mahavidyas are to be prescribed only under very> special circumstances and only when the jyotishi is sure that the Mahavidya> will not be misused or misunderstood. Dasa Mahavidyas help in rescuing the> native from deep distress and mire, when all other avenues fail. I have been> taught in my initial classes, that Mahavidya is to be rarely prescribed. Of> course, I see a different trend nowadays. Palana devata will naturally be> not one of the Mahavidyas, but a saumya rupa of the devi. Saumya may include> either Sri or Bhu shakti. On the other hand, if you meet a native who has> been a Kali sadhak for centuries, and his palana devata indicates Saturn or> Saturn/Moon associations, then one would obviously prescribe Kali as the> palana devata for such a native. Such a sadhaka would anyways not perceive> Kali as a nila shakti but as the All Compassionate Mother. > > So I think we look at saumya rupas whenever prescribing Devi mantras, unless> there are other indications or necessities in the chart. Palana devata> deities therefore can not only be forms of Lakshmi, but Saraswati, Durga,> Annapurna, Jagaddhatri etc.> > Best regards,> > Sarbani> > > > freedom [freedom@s...] > Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:22 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > Hare Rama Krsna> > So the Form of the Palana Devatta is of a Devi, but isn't still best to use> a Sri Shakti rupa? > > To teach beginner or intermediate students to give a nila shakti form for> Palana Devata based on Navamsa when they don't understand the full> implication that nila shakti rupas have in the Rasi can be dangerous. Most> people associate the graha shaktis only with the kali rupas. Even Sanjay> Prabhakaran's list did not clearly separate them all. > > In the end, any form of the Mother will sustain us, and it doesn’t matter> too much as long as we call out to Her, but we are jyotishis who are> supposed to understand the devas. To the normal westerner who perceives the> most famous Indian devatta and the most obscure in relatively the same way,> isn't better to take them to the most sattvic form (for a sustaining> purpose). To tell them to worship Gaja Laksmi instead of Tara for Palana> devatta purposes would be the safest method of worshipping the Devi. Unless> that nila shakti also had a beneficial role in the rasi, which takes much> more understanding than simple calculation of placement from an divisional> charakaraka. > > Namah Sivaya> > > Sanjay Rath [guruji@s...]> Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:34 AM> sohamsa > RE: Re: #2 Palana Devata> > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Swee, Narasimha, Freedom and 'Adhyaayin' (is that your name? Please> correct me)> > It all depends on the level or view point. Freedom is right but Narasimha is> more correct. Palana at the physical world level has to do with food and> nurturing and this is the bhoga which we get due to the *naivedyam* offered> to the Palana devatä. Naivedyam is associated with Jala tattva, so it has to> be a DEVI form and the Palana devatä is a devi form. > > Freedom, in your chart, Satrun and Rähu are in the 9th house from your> Karakamsa and hence they also represent your Dharma Devatä. So in your chart> the dharma devatä and Palana devatä are having the same indications, and> hence I advised you to worship the dharma devatä Who will also act as the> Palana devatä.> > From the Guna devatä viewpoint, Vishnu is the sustainer and is the palana> devatä but then this is for the Atma and not for the Amatya...which is more> mundane or worldly life. So Narasimha's learning is more correct as he has> advised on the basis of Tattva devatä and Jala tattva is the giver of> naivedyam and bhoga for Palana devatä....Devi.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: http://srath.com http://.org http://sjcerc.com Atri> SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162> - Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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