Fw: Transferring JHora Ownership/ RUN MY NATIVITY ON JHORA! I DON'T HAVE IT!

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--- On Fri, 3/12/10, DREAM CATCHER <starman108 wrote:

DREAM CATCHER <starman108Transferring JHora Ownership/ "RUN MY NATIVITY ON JHORA"! I DON'T HAVE IT!sohamsa Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 3:54 PM

 

 

 

 

 

I WOULD LIKE SOMEBODY TO "RUN" MY NATIVITY

ON JHORA.........!!!!!!

 

02/20/1971

05:30AM

ROSE HALL, GUYANA

SOUTH AMERICA

 

StRMAN--- On Fri, 3/12/10, jk.dasgupta <jk.dasgupta wrote:

jk.dasgupta <jk.dasgupta[soHamsa] RE: [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownershipvedic astrology , "Sohamsa (AT) (DOT) Com" <sohamsa >Friday, March 12, 2010, 8:17 AM

 

 

 

Dear Sarbani,

 

That's it. I still remember the evening. Probably on the last but one day of Mumbai conference, Sanjayji told us that he was going to ask PVR to make Jhora free. In the evening in front of us, he made a call to PVR and had a long discussion. After that he announced that Jhora was going to be free.

 

Regards

 

jk

 

 

vedic astrology [vedic- astrology]On Behalf Of Sarbani Rath12 March 2010 18:13vedic astrologyRE: [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership

Jai RamakrishnaA few clarifications for those one or two persons in this list who may beinterested in the reality. Akira Kurusowa in his epoch making film,Roshomon, showed that truth has many versions. Here is another. Thefollowing events took place in front of me and some other students:1. Narasimha Rao had put a price on JHora like any other regularcommerial software. At the first level, in 2003, Sanjayji requested him tointroduce a special low rate for India. Many of us purchased the software atthe low rate. In 2004, Sanjayji told him many time to make the software freeand open source. But nothing materialised as Rao always said 'yes' and thennever did anything. Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference inMumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcementbe made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. Afterthis, it was immediately

announced as free. Yes, of course it was a bit ofstruggle. The time when Rao was not very responsive to making it free,Sanjayji suggested many other models, one of which included the lite andprofessional version models. Many issues such as standardised fees forteaching etc was discussed, not only with Rao, but with other SJC gurus aswell, though nothing was put in practice. This was an attempt toincorporate the needs and suggestions of many teachers who might have neededfinancial support. Evryone did not have cushy jobs in the corporate sectorin the US. Many of you may not know these facts.2. The software did originate as a sort of guru dakshina betweenSanjayji and Rao, on the condition that Sanjayji taught him, and thoseteachings would be translated into the software. In return the softwareshould be made available for the public. Sanjayji had suggested that themoney earned from the software before

it was made free should be used by Raoas he saw fit, for the development of SJC activities in the US, likeconferences etc. Other students present during these discussions also gavetheir suggestions. However nothing materialised. Finally, Sanjayji suggestedto Rao, in 2006-7 to donate that money to the Jagannath Temple in Puri. Wedont know whether that happened or not.3. Since 2007, Sanjayji has been advising his Jaimini students in theclassroom NOT to use the software as there were too many erros in it. Infact, we make our dasa calculations by hand, even Narayana Dasa, or usealternate software. Many of the lat-long of cities are wrong, as are othertechnical details. It has been three years now that we have been bypassingand moving away from JHora. Already 2-3 people are working on an alternativesoftware, which we are going to offer free in SJC. But a little more time isrequired for that. But perhaps

most of you are not aware what we have beenupto? Where we are, what we have been doing?4. During the past 3 years, while Rao and his friends were busy jumpingup and down in the list making sanctimonous noises and mud slinging bycreating a holier-than- thou hubris, it gave Sanjayji the perfect space tostart his actual parampara teachings for which he had been waiting all hislife. Ask his band of 30-45 students who have been drinking in the nectar ofthe knowledge of the rishis since 2007. But I dont think even a single oneof them wasted their time being provocated or involved in this quagmirewhich has been transpiring in this Vedic-Astrology list, nor are they likelyto do so now. On behalf of all my colleagues I would like to thank you forcreating this distraction of maya, which enabled us to go underground anddwell in the realm of pure knowledge. 5. What is happening now is good and perhaps

necessary. Such has beenthe norm in the past. Dr. Raman suffered silently in deep anguish when hisvery famous student abused and maligned him. Perhaps he should have spokenup. Who knows. Perhaps these mad diatribes in emails are necessary to bringabout the necessary "cleansing" and "de-weeding" which is now necessary foran organisation to grow and move forward.I know that a 10 feet long response would be hurled at me laced with twistedlogic and virulent suppressed aggression; but this is my last and only emailon the subject. I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to anyfurther provocations that might be directed towards me. Namaste.At the lotus feet of Sri Ramakrishna, I remain,Sarbani RathHomepage: <http://sarbani. com/> http://sarbani.

comSagittarius Publications: <http://sagittariusp ublications. com/>http://sagittariusp ublications. comSohamsa: <http://sohamsa. com/> http://sohamsa. comSri Jagannath Centre: <http:// .org/> http:// .orgchandan s sabarwal [wavelogix (AT) gmail (DOT) com] 12 March 2010 12:25vedic astrology[vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownershipdear sanjay ji,namaste.maybe you do not have intentions of taking over jhora , but to the scores ofupcoming jyotisas who look up to you , your hypothetical statementsunfortunately do not convey honest intentions. so i believe it you shouldhave been more mature on your part had you never said such hypotheticalstatements in the first place. regdarding whether narasimha has given you dakshina or not , why botherproving it to anyone? are you still bound to your ego that somehow wants toshow that "sanjay rath is right" ? as you rightly said , shiva alone showsand knows satya , let it be unto him and you can simply carry on doing yourown karma while narasimha does his.maybe you owed

narasimha something over from past previous lifes that yousimply repaid , so why now think whether dakshina was given or not?infact i dont know whats honestly in both of your hearts , but i do seenarasimha making an effort and keeping a software foc , speding soo muchtime researching and trying to make it accurate itself shows no attachmentto anything else than jyotisa.do not mind my words , for i speak unbiased and sometimes its others whomake us realise.god bless,chandan singh.vedic astrology<vedic- astrology% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" <sjrathwrote:>> Dear Chandan Singh> I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be madeFREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past.

> I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypotheticalquestion and see the reaction. The question was based on one person sayingthat Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that iswhat I HAVE PROVED now.> His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referredto me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham.> I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred tomeas trying to take over Jagannath Hora.> What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and thenhas to see these lies in his name ...> Shiva shows satya and He will> > Jai Bharati> Sanjay Rath> > > chandan s sabarwal > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM> vedic astrology<vedic- astrology% 40. com> > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership> > > > dear narasimha , > > i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give awayjhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims atrefining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculationsand are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions.> > god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!!> > best regards,> chandan singh.> > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:> >>

> Namaste Sanjay,> > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual> > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do> > > if I ask him to transfer --> > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center> > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting aneyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me.> > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leaveJHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink.> > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, "they are goingto try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that.I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for theJyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over,

all youreffort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion,kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else theyare doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, butrealize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora tothem. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it."> > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.)> > > > * * *> > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on thelists, "I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to partways", because I had no "faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu".> > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to takeover JHora and create an "SJC version", as there were too many options inJHora. I immediately remembered my guru's

words and saw this is as the firststep of what he described.> > > > * * *> > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009:> > > > "I will continue to maintain "Jagannatha Hora" software effort for somemore time.> > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support "non-SJC" calculationsand options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As Isaid, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings,if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me viaa jhora.ini file.> > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I canreview the expectations and judge whether and how I can help."> > > > * * *> > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above questionabout transferring the "ownership of

JHora" is indirectly meant for me. But,you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway.> > > > Best regards,> > Narasimha> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,> > "Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:> > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org> > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > Jyotish writings: http://groups. /

group/JyotishWri tings> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath@> wrote:> > > om gurave namah> > > Dear Raj> > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or theperson to whom you gave it?> > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner ofJagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him.> > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or suchthings, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding thesoftware, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So

howis the *Guru Dakshina?*> > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem veryuntruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the factsright before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is tellinglies easily.> > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you arewrong.> > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing -> > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 byNarasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by anotherold student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thiefcalled Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with theresponsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center.> > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha

or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away withthis list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from theprevious ones who ran away with things entrusted to them?> > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and hasbecome very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him totransfer --> > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center> > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle thislist of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna.> > > Jaya Bharati> > > Regards ~> > > Sanjay Rath> > > http://srath. cpm> > > > > > Raj > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM> > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora> > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly> > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and> > > Shishya.> > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology thefollowing> > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind.> > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great> > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora".The website ofNarsimha> > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still.> > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina

of Guru with his great work of> > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the> > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantumis> > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of> > > the Shishya ?> > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out> > > flaws with a number of features/calculatio ns/updation in the JHora.Lots> > > of views and counter views are being generated about theinterpretation> > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/ scholar> > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his> > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are> > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh

sub-scripts for a> > > Film, with No End!> > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He isdoing> > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, evenfrom> > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his> > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces> > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata> > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He canchange> > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,renamethe> > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all theKunjis> > > with him and we are living in So-called "Kaliyuga", as if nothing of> > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc.

Can anyone> > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contributionin> > > JHora !> > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's> > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish.PEACE.> > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj> > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Namaste Manoj ji,> > > >> > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara.> > > >> > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay

ji. For> > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may beimperfect> > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it worksquite> > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't> > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable> > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his> > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you> > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as> > > described in the mail below.> > > >> > > > Namaste Neelam ji,> > > >> > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one> > > occasion that> > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this

soon!> > > Astrology> > > > > makes much sense, isn't it?> > > >> > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my> > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him.> > > >> > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I "came out" NOW. I> > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his studentin> > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As> > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of "there is more to this, but I will teach> > > it later", you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I startednoticing> > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soonas> > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public> > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on

Sanjay ji. I convinced myself thatI> > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains somegems> > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to> > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During> > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towardsgod.> > > After the seed for the "do homam yourself" movement was sown in 2006,I> > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent> > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a> > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some arein> > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still.> > > >> > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions onSanjay> > > ji to

caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to standfor> > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if> > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by> > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I> > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being> > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with> > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek> > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma> > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at> > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly.> > > >> > > > Thus, my "coming out" started long back and has been unfoldingslowly.> > >

As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for> > > several years now.> > > >> > > > Best regards,> > > > Narasimha> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,> > > > "Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:> > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org> > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > > >> > > > <JyotishGrou p%40. com> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@> > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Manoj ji,> > > > >> > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one> > > occasion that> > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!> > > Astrology> > > > > makes much sense, isn't it?> > > > >> >

> > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the> > > intelligent> > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start> > > afresh! I> > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares> > > freely, not> > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora.> > > > >> > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji.> > > > >> > > > > Regards> > > > > Neelam> > > > >> > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is> > > concerned> > >

> > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not> > > seem to have> > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and> > > maternal) did not> > > > > > even consult him astrologically then.> > > > > >> > > > > > regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > Manoj> > > > > >> > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, havingseen> > > him> > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation hereceived> > > from the> > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuineparampara> > > secrets,> > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* "parampara

secrets"> > > irresponsibly. If> > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets,> > > it would've> > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst> > > researcher> > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so> > > many things> > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumpsto> > > serious> > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical> > > testing.> > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible andvague> > > logic that> > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor.> > > > > >> > > > > >

Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with*ideas*> > > for> > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas bysometimes> > > explicitly> > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a> > > glorious> > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji> > > revolutionized> > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subjectbadly> > > for> > > > > > several years now.> > > > > >> > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long timenow,> > > but I> > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I> > > could not say> > > > > >

it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did> > > not want to> > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual> > > master, I am> > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or> > > anger in my> > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations.> > > > > >> > > > > > * * *> > > > > >> > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly> > > so as to> > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > regards> > > > > > > Partha> > > > > >> > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options

because we are unsure of so many> > > things. We> > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may beglorifying> > > and even> > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a> > > reasonably> > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the> > > difference> > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the> > > room is> > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relativelydark.> > > > > >> > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds.> > > What we need> > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and> > > impassioned> > >

> > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict ofinterest.> > > My> > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over thenext> > > decade and> > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish.> > > > > >> > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on> > > astrology in> > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia.Sri> > > K.N. Rao> > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringingthe> > > focus to> > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt SanjayRath> > > took the> > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and

Jaiminiand> > > brought> > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, asthe> > > plant> > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant.> > > > > >> > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the> > > weeds we> > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely intoa> > > tree.> > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the> > > actual plant> > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the> > > knowledge> > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years.> >> > > > > om gurave namah>

Dear> > Jaya Bharati> Regards ~> Sanjay Rath> http://srath. cpm> >