Sa and Ju change from direct to retrograde or viceversa and a few charts-- why?

[Guest guest]

 

om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

Dear Rishi Shukla

Perhaps thats the reason why the concept of transits in rasi charts needs more elaboration and we need to examine the ramifications w.r.t. natal divisional charts. Secondly you said that they are about to change signs...have you defined the *about to* in your study? See the speed of motion of these planets. The about to may imply months in some charts.

With best wishes and warm regards,

Sanjay Rath

* * *

Sri Jagannath Center®

15B Gangaram Hospital Road

New Delhi 110060, India

http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

* * *

 

 

 

rishi shukla [rishi_2000in] Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:34 AM ; vedic astrology ; sohamsa Subject: Sa and Ju change from direct to retrograde or viceversa and a few charts-- why?

Vidvan Gurujans and Jyotishas,May the Mother shower her blessings on all this day ofbeginning of Navratras.While exploring the fascinating aspects of Jyotish andlearning bit by bit, I stumbled on an interestingcorrelation in a set of Charts and seek your opinionon it.In my very limited awareness of Jyotisha, the motionof grahas, that is direct or retrograde, slow oralmost stationary or fast is taken in account only asa part of shadbala as chestabala. Despite my effortsto know more on this, I have not been able to find adetailed discussion on this issue.This small study focuses on the slow movement ofgrahas, specially Jupiter and Saturn in 30 Charts.Fifteen of these charts come from the charts availablein JH 7.02 as sample charts and 15 others collectedfrom the files section of the Vedic Astrology group.Initially looking at retrograde aspects, 15 Saretrogrades and 5 Ju retrogrades were found in thesecharts with only two charts, that of RamakrishnaParamhans and Dalai Lama having both Sa and Juretrogrades. A total of 18/30 charts had atleasteither a Sa or a Ju retrograde. Considering that bothSa and Ju are retrograde for four months in a year,this is not a surprising figure and does not lead toany suggestion.However, when one looks if Sa or Ju is about to changestations from direct to retrograde or vice versawithin one month of the date of birth in these charts,an interesting aspect is thrown up. In 19 of 30 cases,Sa is set to change stations and is moving slowly. In14/30 charts Ju is set to change stations, in 8 casesboth Sa and Ju about to change stations and in a totalof 25/30 cases either Sa or Ju or both are about tochange stations and are travelling at a slow/slowerspeed. This is a surprisingly high figure of almost83% charts.Considering that on an average this period in a yearwould account for four months in a year; around 33-40% of charts should have this situation. A randomsample of 30 other charts showed this average atalmost 40 % for actors and around the same for PoliceOfficers.The eight charts in which both Sa and Ju are set to change status belong to:Ramakrishna Paramhans, Swami Vivekananda, RabindranathTagore, Paramhans Yogananda, Dalai Lama amongstothers.Here is the total list:Table1Name Date of Birth Ju Date of Enter/Exit R Sa Date ofEnter/Exit R Ramanujacharya 4/4/1017 1 Ge 37 20 Sg 12 R 4/10/1017N Copernicus 1/28/1473 18 Sc 02 3/22/1473 2 Ge 062/17/1473Chaitanya Mahaprabhu 2/27/1486 20 Sg 22 24 Sc 403/20/1486Ramakrishna Paramhansa 2/18/1836 14 Ge 33 R 3/1/183613 Li 41 R 2/14/1836B S Rao 2/12/1856 18 Aq 10 1 Ge 21 R 2/23/1856Sw Narasimha Bharati 3/11/1858 21 Ar 31 29 Ge 30 R3/22/1858Rabindranath Tagore 5/7/1861 25 Cn 56 4/14/1861 10 Le44 5/5/1861Swami Vivekananda 1/12/1863 4 Li 0 2/12/1863 13 Vi 341/15/1861Mahatma Gandhi 10/2/1869 28 Ar 08 R 9/10/1869 20 Sc 19Shri Aurobindo 8/15/1872 21 Cn 35 23 Sg 29 R9/19/1872Raman Maharishi 12/30/1879 16 Aq 29 17 Pi 0312/13/1879Rajendra Prasad Dr. 12/3/1884 13 Le 04 12/21/1884 29Ta 14 R Sw Sivananda * 9/8/1887 11 Li 19 10 Cn 01 Paramhans Yogananda 1/5/1893 23 Pi 51 12/10/1892 20 Vi13 1/21/1893Meher Baba Sri 2/24/1894 1 Ta 41 2 Li 21 R 2/2/1894Sw Chandrasekhar Saraswati 5/20/1894 17 Ta 58 26 Vi50 R 6/21/1894Srila Prabhupada * 9/1/1896 2 Le 01 21 Li 47 Mother Teresa 8/26/1910 21 Vi 10 13 Ar 56 R 8/20/1910B V Raman 8/8/1912 12 Sc 58 8/3/1912 10 Ta 09 Maharishi Mahesh Yogi 1/12/1917 3 Ar 33 12/21/1916 4Cn 54 R Pope John Paul II 5/18/1920 18 Cn 15 12 Le 115/7/1920Satya Sai Baba * 11/23/1926 27 Cp 01 6 Sc 00 RamDass 4/6/1931 18 Ge 54 3/6/1931 29 Sg 47 5/2/1931Osho Rajneesh 12/11/1931 29 Cn 43 R 12/10/1931 28 Sg33 PV Chelapati Rao 7/15/1933 26 Le 05 21 Cp 40 R Dalai Lama 7/6/1935 20 Li 30 R 7/12/1935 17 Aq 05 R6/22/1935Sw Jayendra Saraswati 7/18/1935 20 Li 31 7/12/1935 16Aq 40 R 6/22/1935Amitabh Bachchan 10/11/1942 0 Cn 32 19 Ta 13 R9/25/1942Sanjay Rath 8/7/1963 26 Pi 07 8/9/1963 26 Cp 49 R PV Narasimha Rao 4/4/1970 9 Li 45 R 15 Ar 06 The names on the list need no analysis andintroduction. This is undoubtedly a small sample and alarger sample may change the situation but would liketo know more on this interesting aspect.RegardsRishi

[Guest guest]

Guruji,

The changing of stations from retrograde to direct or

viceversa has been examined from one month on either

side of the date of birth. Have calculated the

movement of both and Sa and Ju in these charts and

they are slow,slower or almost stationary.

Shall be posting a file with these movement details,

the shadbala, vimsopaka, charkaraks, Lordships,

position of these charts in a short while.

Regards,

 

Rishi

 

 

 

 

____

for Good

Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

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[Guest guest]

 

om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

Dear Rishi

Thats very good work. See if you can incorporate the speeds that are used by BPHS itself including the fast and very fast speeds.

With best wishes and warm regards,

Sanjay Rath

* * *

Sri Jagannath Center®

15B Gangaram Hospital Road

New Delhi 110060, India

http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

* * *

 

 

 

rishi shukla [rishi_2000in] Tuesday, October 04, 2005 11:00 PMsohamsa Subject: RE: Sa and Ju change from direct to retrograde or viceversa and a few charts-- why?

Guruji,The changing of stations from retrograde to direct orviceversa has been examined from one month on eitherside of the date of birth. Have calculated themovement of both and Sa and Ju in these charts andthey are slow,slower or almost stationary.Shall be posting a file with these movement details,the shadbala, vimsopaka, charkaraks, Lordships,position of these charts in a short while.Regards,Rishi ____ for Good Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store./redcross-donate3/

[Guest guest]

Dear Rishi

 

You can have a look at my chart. Both Jupiter and Saturn are vakri,

jupiter was retrograding and entered Aries.

 

date:-15th december 1976

Time:-8 27 Am

Place:-New Delhi

 

 

Best wishes

partha

 

sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <guruji@s...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

>

> Dear Rishi Shukla

> Perhaps thats the reason why the concept of transits in rasi charts

needs

> more elaboration and we need to examine the ramifications w.r.t.

natal

> divisional charts. Secondly you said that they are about to change

> signs...have you defined the *about to* in your study? See the

speed of

> motion of these planets. The about to may imply months in some

charts.

> With best wishes and warm regards,

> Sanjay Rath

> * * *

> Sri Jagannath CenterR

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road

> New Delhi 110060, India

> <http://srath.com/> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

> * * *

>

>

> _____

>

> rishi shukla [rishi_2000in]

> Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:34 AM

> ; vedic-

astrology ;

> sohamsa

> Sa and Ju change from direct to retrograde or

viceversa

> and a few charts-- why?

>

>

> Vidvan Gurujans and Jyotishas,

>

> May the Mother shower her blessings on all this day of

> beginning of Navratras.

> While exploring the fascinating aspects of Jyotish and

> learning bit by bit, I stumbled on an interesting

> correlation in a set of Charts and seek your opinion

> on it.

>

> In my very limited awareness of Jyotisha, the motion

> of grahas, that is direct or retrograde, slow or

> almost stationary or fast is taken in account only as

> a part of shadbala as chestabala. Despite my efforts

> to know more on this, I have not been able to find a

> detailed discussion on this issue.

>

> This small study focuses on the slow movement of

> grahas, specially Jupiter and Saturn in 30 Charts.

> Fifteen of these charts come from the charts available

> in JH 7.02 as sample charts and 15 others collected

> from the files section of the Vedic Astrology group.

> Initially looking at retrograde aspects, 15 Sa

> retrogrades and 5 Ju retrogrades were found in these

> charts with only two charts, that of Ramakrishna

> Paramhans and Dalai Lama having both Sa and Ju

> retrogrades. A total of 18/30 charts had atleast

> either a Sa or a Ju retrograde. Considering that both

> Sa and Ju are retrograde for four months in a year,

> this is not a surprising figure and does not lead to

> any suggestion.

>

> However, when one looks if Sa or Ju is about to change

> stations from direct to retrograde or vice versa

> within one month of the date of birth in these charts,

> an interesting aspect is thrown up. In 19 of 30 cases,

> Sa is set to change stations and is moving slowly. In

> 14/30 charts Ju is set to change stations, in 8 cases

> both Sa and Ju about to change stations and in a total

> of 25/30 cases either Sa or Ju or both are about to

> change stations and are travelling at a slow/slower

> speed. This is a surprisingly high figure of almost

> 83% charts.

> Considering that on an average this period in a year

> would account for four months in a year; around 33-40

> % of charts should have this situation. A random

> sample of 30 other charts showed this average at

> almost 40 % for actors and around the same for Police

> Officers.

> The eight charts in which both Sa and Ju are set to

> change status belong to:

> Ramakrishna Paramhans, Swami Vivekananda, Rabindranath

> Tagore, Paramhans Yogananda, Dalai Lama amongst

> others.

>

> Here is the total list:

> Table1

> Name Date of Birth Ju Date of Enter/Exit R

Sa Date

> of

> Enter/Exit R

> Ramanujacharya 4/4/1017 1 Ge 37 20 Sg 12 R

> 4/10/1017

> N Copernicus 1/28/1473 18 Sc 02 3/22/1473 2 Ge

06

> 2/17/1473

> Chaitanya Mahaprabhu 2/27/1486 20 Sg 22 24 Sc

40

> 3/20/1486

> Ramakrishna Paramhansa 2/18/1836 14 Ge 33 R 3/1/1836

> 13 Li 41 R 2/14/1836

> B S Rao 2/12/1856 18 Aq 10 1 Ge 21 R

2/23/1856

> Sw Narasimha Bharati 3/11/1858 21 Ar 31 29 Ge

30 R

> 3/22/1858

> Rabindranath Tagore 5/7/1861 25 Cn 56 4/14/1861

10 Le

> 44 5/5/1861

> Swami Vivekananda 1/12/1863 4 Li 0 2/12/1863 13

Vi 34

> 1/15/1861

> Mahatma Gandhi 10/2/1869 28 Ar 08 R 9/10/1869

20 Sc 19

>

> Shri Aurobindo 8/15/1872 21 Cn 35 23 Sg 29 R

> 9/19/1872

> Raman Maharishi 12/30/1879 16 Aq 29 17 Pi 03

> 12/13/1879

> Rajendra Prasad Dr. 12/3/1884 13 Le 04

12/21/1884 29

> Ta 14 R

> Sw Sivananda * 9/8/1887 11 Li 19 10 Cn 01

> Paramhans Yogananda 1/5/1893 23 Pi 51

12/10/1892 20 Vi

> 13 1/21/1893

> Meher Baba Sri 2/24/1894 1 Ta 41 2 Li 21 R

> 2/2/1894

> Sw Chandrasekhar Saraswati 5/20/1894 17 Ta 58

26 Vi

> 50 R 6/21/1894

> Srila Prabhupada * 9/1/1896 2 Le 01 21 Li

47

> Mother Teresa 8/26/1910 21 Vi 10 13 Ar 56 R

> 8/20/1910

> B V Raman 8/8/1912 12 Sc 58 8/3/1912 10 Ta

09

> Maharishi Mahesh Yogi 1/12/1917 3 Ar 33

12/21/1916 4

> Cn 54 R

> Pope John Paul II 5/18/1920 18 Cn 15 12 Le 11

> 5/7/1920

> Satya Sai Baba * 11/23/1926 27 Cp 01 6 Sc

00

> RamDass 4/6/1931 18 Ge 54 3/6/1931 29 Sg 47

> 5/2/1931

> Osho Rajneesh 12/11/1931 29 Cn 43 R 12/10/1931

28 Sg

> 33

> PV Chelapati Rao 7/15/1933 26 Le 05 21 Cp 40

R

> Dalai Lama 7/6/1935 20 Li 30 R 7/12/1935 17 Aq

05 R

> 6/22/1935

> Sw Jayendra Saraswati 7/18/1935 20 Li 31

7/12/1935 16

> Aq 40 R 6/22/1935

> Amitabh Bachchan 10/11/1942 0 Cn 32 19 Ta 13 R

> 9/25/1942

> Sanjay Rath 8/7/1963 26 Pi 07 8/9/1963 26 Cp 49

R

> PV Narasimha Rao 4/4/1970 9 Li 45 R 15 Ar

06

> The names on the list need no analysis and

> introduction. This is undoubtedly a small sample and a

> larger sample may change the situation but would like

> to know more on this interesting aspect.

> Regards

>

> Rishi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> *tat savitur varenyam*

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Partha,

The thrust of this study has been to observe the changing of Saturn

and/or Jupiter from retrograde Stations to Direct or

viceversa...within a month of the date of birth. It is this period in

which the movement of both Ju and Sa are slow/slower. Merely

retrogression has not been able to suggest anything.

A large number of notable charts showed this pattern.

You may have read the list of thirty charts which I posted. In as many

as 25/30 charts this was seen.

In your chart also the same pattern is visible but not because both Ju

and Sa are vakri or that ju is changing from Ta to Ar in retrogression

but because Sa went retrograde around Nov 28, 1976...two days before

your birth and the movement of Sa is unusually slow at the time of

your birth.

Regards

 

Rishi

[Guest guest]

Dear Partha,

Infact...not two days but 17 days!

 

rishi

[Guest guest]

Dear Rishi

 

Yes, it is 17 days. But if you observe Jupiter. Jupiter moved to

aries on December 8th that is just 7 days before i was born.

Retrograding planets changing signs is more significant than simple

retrogression.

That kind of situation is called anuvakra if my memory serves me

right. Jupiter in fifth and saturn in 8th both vakri made me

interested in occult from a tender age.

 

Best Regards

partha

 

 

sohamsa , " rishi_2000in " <rishi_2000in>

wrote:

>

> Dear Partha,

> The thrust of this study has been to observe the changing of Saturn

> and/or Jupiter from retrograde Stations to Direct or

> viceversa...within a month of the date of birth. It is this period

in

> which the movement of both Ju and Sa are slow/slower. Merely

> retrogression has not been able to suggest anything.

> A large number of notable charts showed this pattern.

> You may have read the list of thirty charts which I posted. In as

many

> as 25/30 charts this was seen.

> In your chart also the same pattern is visible but not because both

Ju

> and Sa are vakri or that ju is changing from Ta to Ar in

retrogression

> but because Sa went retrograde around Nov 28, 1976...two days

before

> your birth and the movement of Sa is unusually slow at the time of

> your birth.

> Regards

>

> Rishi

>

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

 

Namaste Rishi,

 

From Aug 16th 1960 to Sep 16th 1960, I am sure you'll

find a lot of charts with both Saturn & Jupiter

changing stations.

 

The following is one example.

 

September 1st, 1960

Time:15:24:22

Hyderabad, India

 

Regards,

Lakshmi

--- rishi_2000in <rishi_2000in wrote:

 

> Dear Partha,

> The thrust of this study has been to observe the

> changing of Saturn

> and/or Jupiter from retrograde Stations to Direct or

>

> viceversa...within a month of the date of birth. It

> is this period in

> which the movement of both Ju and Sa are

> slow/slower. Merely

> retrogression has not been able to suggest anything.

>

> A large number of notable charts showed this

> pattern.

> You may have read the list of thirty charts which I

> posted. In as many

> as 25/30 charts this was seen.

> In your chart also the same pattern is visible but

> not because both Ju

> and Sa are vakri or that ju is changing from Ta to

> Ar in retrogression

> but because Sa went retrograde around Nov 28,

> 1976...two days before

> your birth and the movement of Sa is unusually slow

> at the time of

> your birth.

> Regards

>

> Rishi

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

 

[Guest guest]

|| Hare Rama Krishna ||

 

Dear Rishi-ji,

Namaskar. Very good research as Sanjay-ji said. I

would like to know what definitions you use for slow/slower

in 'deg/day' units. Have you looked at the Sa and Ju dasas' of the

said charts? In what percentage of the charts are Ju or Sa Lagnesha

and/or AK, BK. Kindly let me know.

 

Best regards,

 

Sourav

===================================================================

 

sohamsa , " rishi_2000in " <rishi_2000in>

wrote:

>

> Dear Partha,

> Infact...not two days but 17 days!

>

> rishi

>

[Guest guest]

Guruji,First of all, let me express my gratitude to you for your kind words of encouragement.I am posting a file on the group site about the charts in which Sa or Ju are about to change stations from Retrograde to Direct or viceversa.It includes, the date of entering/exiting the retrograde station, the movement of Ju and Sa in a week preceding and following the date of birth, the Ascendants, The Placement, Vimsopaka and shadbala of both Sa and Ju for all these charts.My interest in this particular study was triggered during a study of your chart. A near stationary jupiter going in retrogression in two days. High shadbala and high vimsopaka for Jupiter, the giver of all knowledge and wisdom. Soon, I found that many a notable charts cutting across centuries showed a pattern of either Ju or Sa changing stations in a period of one month from the date of birth. Dalai lama, Swami Vivekananda, Rabindranath Tagore, Sri Aurobindo, Mother Teresa..the list goes on . A few points of interest are as follows:> >Jupiter:>>1. In these 30 charts there is not a single chart with Jupiter in Capricorn...not surprising!2. There are 4 Jus in cancer but 5 each in Libra and Leo accounting for almost 50 % of the total.3.Ju is Lagna Lord in 5/30 cases, (average), 5th Lord in 5 cases and 9th Lord in 3 cases.4. There are 5 charts with ju placed in 5th house, 4 in Lagna and 2 in the ninth house.5. 5 each of AKs, PiKs and BKs while the others get distributed.6. 21/30 vimsopakas are 60% plus including four cases of 75% plus.7. 25/30 cases of shadbala over 100% including 8 of over 130%.8. Only one cases of high shadbala, high vimsopaka, AK and a stationary situation.9. In the 14 charts where Ju is changing stations in this study the only factor which seems relevant is that 4/5 AKs are in these cases.10. Shadbala, vimsopaka, ascendants, placements do not show significant convergence or variance.> >Saturn:>>> >1. Interestingly in this total of 30 charts there is not a single placement of Sa in third or 12th house.2.Charakaraka: AKs 6, Piks 8 and MK 4 dominate these charts and in 4/6 of these AK charts and 6/8 of PiK charts SA is moving slow and slower and is about to change stations.3.The shadbala and vimsopaka show no convergence or significant variation in charts with faster moving saturn or the slower moving charts.> >Ascendants:>>7/30 cases are ascendants with either Aq or Ca.. On the other hand, there is not even a single Ar ascendant. The primary convergence remains of the movement of Ju and Sa in these charts, there is an extraordinary high percentage of charts which have either or both of these major grahas moving slowly.> >Ofcourse, could be a sheer coincidence. A larger study could perhaps give some clarity. Will try to incorporate more as you suggested.Thanks for your time and interest.Regards,> >Rishi> >> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Sauravji,

Thankyou for your kind words. I have posted a file in the files

section. I must admit though that I did not calculate the movement

through Longitude/day, just manually checked the position of both Sa

and Ju a week before the day of birth and a week after the day of

birth.

There are 5 charts of Ju lagnesh and 7 of Sa lagnesh.

There are notable exceptions in the list..also in whose charts this

observation does not fit.But interestingly it fits in 80% of charts.

Have not examined the mahadashas though.

With regards,

 

rishi

[Guest guest]

Dear Sauravji,

Once again my thanks for your time to analyse my comments. I have

not drawn any inference in this issue and have not built up any

hypothesis on why this should be happening. Infact, that is exactly

my query ...what could be the reason for this observation.

I fully concur that the data size is too small to conclude anything

and am saying the same, perhaps a larger study can suggest if this

observation is merely a coincidence. And I seek suggestions as to

the reasons or inferences from all of you.

Let me, once again, briefly recapitulate:

In an observation of 30 very wellknown charts,One can notice that in

25 Charts..either JU or SA or both have changed from retrograde to

direct or from direct to retrograde within one month of either side

of the date of birth. There are however 5 charts in which this is

not true. If you would kindly go through the details posted on the

file you can see it. These five charts include that of Srila

Prabhupada, Satya Saibaba, Swami Sivananda.

On an average this period would be nearly three to four months a

year when this situation applies. Almost 33-40% of all charts will

therefore have this situation, its not unusual.

But in this sample almost 80% of charts show this situation. Why?

That exactly is my question.

One physical reason is that in the period in which a graha changes

from retrograde to direct, it slows down in its movement.

But does this significantly affect the internal chart dynamics?

That I suppose is the answer which is being sought.

This is an observation of a pattern and I seek the indulgence of the

learned jyotishas on this.

While examining these charts, I have looked at Ascendants,

charkarakatwas etc of these charts too to see if there are other

convergences statistically.

In these 30 charts, we have 5 Pi/Sg ascendants and 7 Cp/AQ

ascendants.This is to elaborate on your seeking more information on

this.There are other observations which are listed in my earlier

post.

 

Meanwhile, as I keep looking for more cases, I found two more for

your consideration:

1.Ma Amritanandamayi..Date of Birth...Sept 27, 1953( Source :Sanjay

P " s blog),Jupiter shifting to retrograde on Oct 12,1953.

2.Sri Achuta Dasa, Date of Birth: Jan 30, 1510 ( Source: Shri

Visti's article on Upaasanamsa),Saturn turning retrograde on Jan

18,1510.

Once again thanks for your time on this issue but as of now I do not

have the answers or even a hypothesis, maybe Lord Mahakaal will

suggest something.

Regards

 

Rishi