[SoHamsa] Lineage before and after parasara?

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama KrsnaThe text of BPHS constantly makes comments like "some sages say" or "other sages believe" and in the longevity chapter Parasara even says that there are many beliefs and he is just giving a small summary. So this indicates that there were multiple teachings and lineages, but we are limited in which texts are available to us in the present day. This is common, for example, before Panini there were thirty schools of grammar, and after Panini there was just one school of grammar. We only know about the other schools from Panini's references. The Atharvaveda, Puranas, and Siddhantas list various sages known to have practiced astrology. Regarding calculations, 5000 years ago, they were not using a set ephemeris like we do today (that could go wrong if something changes).

There was an entire class who were devoted to watching the sky and doing the computations to give planetary information. As modern church bells ring on the hour, which was used before watches to let us know the time of day. The priests of the ancient world (India, Egypt, Babylon, etc) would call out the day of the New Moon to indicate the new month according to their calculations and observations. In this way, the Vedanga Jytotisham stresses astonomical observation, to insure calculations are correct. Bharat Verma <ffmbvarmaTo:

sohamsa <sohamsa >; Vedic <vedic astrology >Sat, March 13, 2010 8:46:05 PM[soHamsa] Lineage before and after parasara?

 

 

Hi

 

Just curious to find out how did the lineage of jyotish come through. The latest we take is from parasara. But who was before him which the world could have followed. Is there any reference text for the same in any vedic books or puranas.

The reason i am asking is (According to BBC some 5000 yrs ago) probably at the beginning of kali yuga the earth axis tilted by 1 deg which could have caused changes in calculations already predicted. None after the great sage has ever come to revive stuff. I dont see even any stufff from jagatguru sankarcharya himself. How does the lineage stuff fit.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Thanks

Bharat

[Guest guest]

ॠगà¥à¤°à¤µà¥‡ नमःDear Freedom, Namaste.To add to your clarification, we are taught that before ParaÅ›ara there was no 'manual' for jyotish. The information was floating around in Naá¸i texts, i.e. Brighu Naá¸i (not that translation by RG Rao), Dhruva Naá¸i, Agastya Naá¸i, various Graha Naá¸i which we know today as Deva Keralam, and many more. These texts contained specific information on the effects of various planetary placements but was not organised into a manual which one could learn the principles from. There were also many Samhita's, i.e. ParaÅ›ara Samhita, KaÅ›yapa Samhita, VaÅ›iṣṭha Samhita which are referred to by Varahamihira. These contained volumes of information on different topics of Jyotish, but again were not really organised manuals on specifically HorÄ Å›astra.

So when Bá¹›hat ParaÅ›ara HorÄ Å›aÅ›tra (BPHS) came about it was a real manual which one could learn from. I am not aware whether the BPHS is part of a larger compilation, but I can't help but suspect that it is.

This text was spoken and respoken in various parts of India and was specifically kept in written format by the RÄjjyotiá¹£a (advisors/astrologers to the king) of the state. It was kept for learning and worship along with the most secret Mahaṛṣi Jaimini Ká¹›tam UpadeÅ›a Sutram, which no-one got to see. Here the words 'ká¹›tam' and 'upadeÅ›a' imply that the text was 1) directed by the authors Guru (VedavyÄsa) and 2) that it was not a complete work on its own but a supplementary work to other available works (BPHS likely as VedavyÄsa was the son of ParaÅ›ara). Some of the knowledge was taught in the villages for their benefit, but the whole thing was safeguarded by the Rajjyotiá¹£a and only taught to those select few from the villages which were qualified to take over the role as Rajjyotiá¹£a. 

The lineages which carry this knowledge in its complete form therefore stem from those Rajjyotiá¹£a traditions which survived. The lineages of Puri almost came to a halt before the revival caused by Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu at the time. His student, Shri Achyutananda Dasa, was an advisor to the kings of Kaliñga and traveled extensively to teach Jyotiá¹£a. He was also a Rajjyotiá¹£a. The Sasan villages of Orissa continued this task of teaching, and selecting the best Jyotiá¹£a, and it is from there that this particular lineage stems. The desires and intentions of Pt. JagannÄtha RÄtha, who was the Jyotiá¹£a Ratna of Orissa and also a personal advisor to the king, I will leave to Sanjayji to bring to light.

Now, regarding the declination and accuracy of calculations. Indeed in older times they did rely on observational astronomy (dá¹›kpaká¹£iya), i.e. the visible placements of the stars and planets. However, as is taught in the SÅ«rya SiddhÄnta and other SiddhÄnta's, they already knew how to calculate all planetary placements, including the precession of the equinox (sampat chalanam) and the binary orbit of our sun (ayanamsha chalanam). Based on this there are calculations as to how to calculate the 'tilt' of the globe. Notably this would also define the seasons of man. Today we also rely on observational astronomy as we have a definition in the SÅ«rya Siddhanta stating to start the Ayanamsha from Chitra-Paká¹£a. To learn more please read this writeup: (http://thejyotishdigest.com/index.php/authors/author-blogs/2010/02/08/2-ayana-gola-beginning-of-the-zodiac)

I was taught that the 72 year factor is an important factor in understanding the AyanamÅ›a. If we take 1 degree and divide by 72 we get 50 " arc seconds. This is very close to the Ayanamsha that we have today. If I compare this to the SÅ«rya SiddhÄnta, and the teachings of SiddhÄnta Å›iromani I get the following information:

1. The Sun will spend 60 years of sidereal motion to precess one degree (200 revolutions per MahÄyuga of 4.320.000 years)2. The equinox will simultaneously take 30 revolutions per MahÄyuga to make a complete cycle.

Equation: 200-30=170 revolutions per MahÄyuga. 4320000/170 = 25411,76 years to complete one cycle.360:00 degrees divided by 25411,76 = ~50 " arc seconds per year.The calculations at face value look worth of consideration, yet the SÅ«rya SiddhÄnta goes at length in helping us understand that these motions are not mean but vary with time, so we cannot settle with simply appropriating these given values into a software and be done with it. 

We can decide to ignore these detailed calculations and simply choose the safe method of basing our Ayanamsha on the position of Chitra (spica). This is correct so we should encourage it and all softwares should preferably follow this. However, I cannot help but think that we at present do not have a clear idea as to where Chitra was nor at which speed it was moving when Shri RÄma was born. So, as a dedicated astrologer i feel that we would be left with a half or more like 1/1.000.000th overview of the planetary movements in our universe. Literally we are like blind men (and women) grasping at what little we can understand of the Ayanamsha.

So they did know about these equations, and specifically the equinox equation can help us understand literally why the the Puraṇas speak of the seasons increasing from just one, to two, and etc. with time.

Hope this opens more doors for debate.Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen----------Jyotish Guru (Vedic Astrologer)www: http://srigaruda.com

www2: http://thejyotishdigest.com@: visti

On 13 March 2010 18:35, Freedomji <freeflowaum wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Hare Rama KrsnaThe text of BPHS constantly makes comments like " some sages say " or " other sages believe " and in the longevity chapter Parasara even says that there are many beliefs and he is just giving a small summary. So this indicates that there were multiple teachings and lineages, but we are limited in which texts are available to us in the present day. This is common, for example, before Panini there were thirty schools of grammar, and after Panini there was just one school of grammar. We only know about the other schools from Panini's references. The Atharvaveda, Puranas, and Siddhantas list various sages known to have practiced astrology. 

Regarding calculations, 5000 years ago, they were not using a set ephemeris like we do today (that could go wrong if something changes).

There was an entire class who were devoted to watching the sky and doing the computations to give planetary information. As modern church bells ring on the hour, which was used before watches to let us know the time of day. The priests of the ancient world (India, Egypt, Babylon, etc) would call out the day of the New Moon to indicate the new month according to their calculations and observations. In this way, the Vedanga Jytotisham stresses astonomical observation, to insure calculations are correct.  

 

Bharat Verma <ffmbvarmaTo:

sohamsa <sohamsa >; Vedic <vedic astrology >

Sat, March 13, 2010 8:46:05 PM[soHamsa] Lineage before and after parasara?

 

 

Hi

 

Just curious to find out how did the lineage of jyotish come through. The latest we take is from parasara. But who was before him which the world could have followed. Is there any reference text for the same in any vedic books or puranas.

The reason i am asking is (According to BBC some 5000 yrs ago) probably at the beginning of kali yuga the earth axis tilted by 1 deg which could have caused changes in calculations already predicted. None after the great sage has ever come to revive stuff. I dont see even any stufff from jagatguru sankarcharya himself. How does the lineage stuff fit.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Thanks

Bharat