RE: Trying to understand Ishta-Rafal

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Shri Brahmadaru Smarami

 

Dear Rafal,

 

I agree with Sourav here. See Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's Dvaita-Advaita thought.

 

Best Regards,

 

Sarbani

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sourav Chowdhury [souravc108] Saturday, December 03, 2005 10:00 PMsohamsa Subject: Re: Trying to understand "Ishta"-

 

|| Hare Rama Krishna ||

Dear Rafal,

Namaskar. This is more close to Vishishtadvaita (Qualified Monism) which does not do away with plurality as does staunch Advaitabaad. I do not want to influence your conception of God. Hence you are free to choose your ideas.

One idea to remember is that it is not known what Dvaitavaadi or Advaitavaadi feels at the end of journey. Atman as we try to call it is avam-manas-agocharam (beyond the possibility of thought or expression).

Best Wishes,

Sourav

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sohamsa , "Rafal Gendarz" <starsuponme@w...> wrote:>> Dear Sourav,> > This is Advaita understanding. How about Dvaita tradition?> > Regards> Rafal Gendarz> > - > Sourav Chowdhury > sohamsa > Saturday, December 03, 2005 3:09 PM> Re: Trying to understand "Ishta"-> > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > Dear Sarbani-ji,> > Namaskar. Hope I am not mistaken. > > >I do not agree with Saurav's dictum that malefics in the 12th from> > Karakamsha will show lesser deities. This applies for 5th house matters in> > the rashi chart. A lesser deity can never be ishta. The ishta sits in the> > 12th house of moksha , having the capacity to deliver the native from the> > all bondages of the world, nay of several worlds. > > I didn't mean lower Ishta or higher Ishtam. I meant tamasika/rajasika/satvika influence on Ishtadevata-sthana influences the outlook in worship. That is how we differentiate ugra-rupa with saumya rupa, for example. Of course there is no higher or lower. But there is greater or lesser in our conception of God. Swami Vivekananda gave the idea or a hole in the screen through which we view reality (God manifest). For some people this hole is bigger. With time the hole become s bigger and bigger until the screen drops altogether. Hence bigger or smaller is how much one can perceive God. We say "He! Krishna ! He! Krishna" How much do we know real Krishna. We see him is Gopala or Muralidhara form, but how much we can see beyond this form ? Every moment of every time Krishna Shakti is performing all actions, how much we can perceive ? Myself, I perceive a negligible portion. But with time, Krishna will show me more of himself, I pray thus. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa gave an example that a pure diamond has no color but takes up the color of the background. God is one and same, however the approach to God is different, and must be so, because God wanted variety. We were discussing about a Jaimini Sutra, just to keep in mind.> > God is a complement to us. Myself+My Ishta Devata = 1.0. When this equation is satisfied and understood, I (an individual) will not exist. Just like complementary colors when combined, gives one color. Depending on my color, my Ishta devata's color (as viewed in my eyes) change, even from day to day. Because of this complementary nature we feel the attraction. This attraction is from the soul level not on mundane level.> > Again, hope I am not misunderstood. And didn't mean to argue for a moment.> > Best Wishes,> > - Sourav> > =====================================================> > > > > sohamsa , "Sarbani Sarkar" sarbani@s... wrote:> >> > Shri Brahmadaru Smarami> > > > Dear Nitin and SanjayP,> > > > Sorry for barging in to the discussion. I agree that the 12th from the> > Karamkamsha is the Jivanmuktamsha and the 9th from Karakamsha is the> > Vigyanamsha. The deity to who one is drawn to or has attraction/inclination> > towards, although that deity may not be his or her ishta, should be first> > seen in the 5th house of the rashi chart. Vimshamsha is one of the charts> > which will confirm whether worshipping of that deity is indicated for the> > native or not. > > > > As for the ishta devata, yes, the rashi will often help to determine the> > form of the divine. Jupiter is Pisces or in Aries is a slightly different> > story. I do not agree with Saurav's dictum that malefics in the 12th from> > Karakamsha will show lesser deities. This applies for 5th house matters in> > the rashi chart. A lesser deity can never be ishta. The ishta sits in the> > 12th house of moksha , having the capacity to deliver the native from the> > all bondages of the world, nay of several worlds. Whichever the graha> > sitting over there, malefic or benefic, has then lost its grahatva, and> > appears to us only as the spark of the paramatman. Jivan mukti is achieved> > at the paramam padam (12th house)of Vishnu; hence Vishnu avatars are> > prescribed. Saturn is Naryana and Rahu and Ketu are Varaha and Matsya> > avatars while Mars Nrisimha rupa. In jyotish boks of Bengal, the dasa> > mahavidyas are given as the ishta devis, where Saturn, Mars, Rahu and Ketu> > become the goddesses Kali, Bagala, Chhinnamasta and Dhumavati. Under no> > circumstances are the dasa avatars or the dasa mahavidyas or any form of> > Shiva or whoever lesser deities. The whole way of perceiving the planet in> > the 12th from karakamsha is different. > > > > (Sanjay, ishta is that which we desire most, that is the object of the> > desire and not the desire itself. It is said that what we should desire most> > is Krishna, there can be no higher desire than that. Hence Krishna is> > worshipped with the Kama bija Klim.)> > > > > > Best Regards,> > > > Sarbani> > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > Nitin K [sjc@j...] > > Saturday, December 03, 2005 5:36 AM> > sohamsa > > Re: Trying to understand "Ishta" for those who do not> > worship in particular forms....> > > > > > ||| Aum Krishna Guru |||> > > > Dear List Members, Namaskaar...> > > > Let's not use "Ishtaamsa," though it is understood what position you are> > referring to in the vargas (subdivisonal charts). > > [There are so many terms to learn and grasp, why create a new one?]> > > > "Jivan Muktaamsa" perhaps would be better as it is referred to in Chandra> > Kala Naadi. > > > > 2 people with the same Ishta need not feel attracted to the same deity (if> > inclined to worship) or the same form. What the person finds closer in> > his/her heart will be a representation found from the Vimsamsa (D20). > > > > Sourav -- Chandra (Moon) as a graha (planet) represents jiva atman. The> > Rashi holding it would represent jar atman. > > > > For a wholistic perspective, consider both. > > > > Hope some of this helps. May the Gurus continue to guide us.> > > > Best wishes,> > Nitin,> > > > || Namah Shivaaya ||> > > > > > > > > > > > --> > "Sourav Chowdhury" souravc108> > sohamsa > > Fri, 02 Dec 2005 23:54:59 -0000> > > > >--> > > > >> > >|| Hare Rama Krishna ||> > >> > >Dear Nitin and SanjayP-ji,> > >> > > namaskar. Both of you> > have raised very good points. I was reading Kapilopadesha (a segment of> > Bhagavatam) in which Maharshi Kalipa describes, how worship of various> > grades of deities result in going to various lokas after birth, the highest> > loka being Satya loka which is achieved by worship of Mahavishnu (of which> > Sri Kapila is an incarnation). This indicates that > > >> > >(a) there are indeed various grades of deities> > >> > >Or> > >> > >(b) it is the same 'overall' deity and we are worshipping an aspect of> > Him/Her and that forms our deity.> > >> > >Tamasika grahas in the 12-th from karakaamsa (can we call this Ishtaamsa ?)> > can show a lower aspect of deity inwhich tamasika qualities are more> > manifest. Opposite for Satvika grahas. Rasi drishti(s) on and ownership of> > this Ishtaamsa is also to be considered. This is my understanding.> > >> > >Another thought is that, say there are two persons with same AK graha> > having same Ju in the Ishtaamsa. Does it mean that they are appealing to the> > same deity ? I doubt. Each individual is different. If two persons worships> > the same form of Sri Vishnu, there is a difference in the worship (in desire> > of objects for which worship is made or in intensity of longing, say.) Thus> > we should take into account the rasi aspects, lorship and more importantly> > (to my understanding) the rasi itself of the Ishtaamsa.> > >> > >Nitin, is it because of Mo or it is because of some jalatatva rasi in the> > Ishtamsa of that singer/composer ? I understand it as Ishtaamsa is the place> > of repose of the soul (which it can get by getting rid of maayik> > experiences) and the graha sitting in there/influencing it, it the> > deity/conciousness to whom the native (bound soul) seeks this repose/refuge.> > Agnostics have such deities as well whether they want to believe it or not.> > >> > >Best wishes,> > >> > >Sourav> > >> > >===========================================================================> > =================> > >sohamsa , "Nitin K" sjc@j... wrote:> > >>> > >> ||| Aum Krishna Guru |||> > >> > > >> Dear Sonali Ji and Samjay P, Namaskaar. > > >> > > >> Allow me to share some of my thoughts. The below is subjective and could> > be considered speculative.> > >> > > >> There is a segment in society who do not believe in idol worship or> > cannot find God in any particular form. This does not indicate a lack of> > divinity or spirituality. > > >> > > >> Here is an approach I try to follow when such a person asks for guidance> > and the 12th from Kaarakamsa has to be revealed...> > >> > > >> Use the elements and nature.> > >> > > >> For example, the higher spirit we commonly refer to as God may speak to a> > person having the Moon (Chandra) in this position, when visiting water> > bodies. > > >> [in one of the conferences, a chart of a singer from "The Beach Boys" was> > discussed. This celebrity felt a divine purpose near the water and authored> > many songs about the beach, etc.]> > >> > > >> Likewise, the Sun in such a position may have a person speak to him with> > representations of sun-rise, day-break, twilight, etc. > > >> > > >> Hope some of these thoughts help.> > >> > > >> Best wishes, > > >> Nitin.> > >> > > >> || Namah Shivaaya ||> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> --> > >> Sanjay Prabhakaran sanjaychettiar@g...> > >> sohamsa > > >> Fri, 2 Dec 2005 17:31:22 -0500> > >> > > >> >--> > >> > > >> >|| Om Gurave Namah ||> > >> >> > >> >Dear Sonali,> > >> >> > >> > You can call me Sanjay without a Ji.> > >> >> > >> >>When it is said that 'worship of good or evil deities', how do we> > >> >>co-relate that with people who dont do puja and such ?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > In Jaimini Sutra (Ref:Jaimini Updesa/SRath) malefics in 12th from Ak> > can> > >> >give worship of lower dieties (Ketu not malefic here).> > >> > Also Maharishi says Venus if being the 12th lord from Ak can gives> > worship> > >> >of of lower dieties too.> > >> >Refer charts like Hitler or Ted Bundy (given in last Jyotish Digest)> > Note> > >> >thier 12th from Ak is lorded by Venus and Venus was the Ak.> > >> >> > >> >My understanding is, 12th from Ak is Ishta, Ishta means just the desires> > of> > >> >the soul. Now when we worship higherforms then it becomes Ishta Devata.> > 12th> > >> >from Ak is the natural desires of the soul. Everybody has some Ishta> > follows> > >> >that path. Naturally a native will be drawn to matters related to 12th> > Ak> > >> >and give the person "a purpose". But proper worship I think we just make> > >> >sure we are in the right path.> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >Warm Regards> > >> >Sanjay P> > >> >> > >> >Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > > > ______________> > Sent via the WebMail system at justnitin.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *tat savitur varenyam* > > > > > > > > > >