[VRI] Fwd: SENSE OF SEASONS & CALENDAR REFORM

August 30, 2009

Dear friends,

Mr. kaul can go on till his last breadth that the Rashis are not there in the

Veda in spite of Dr. N.R.Waradpande, Dr. Vartak and me showing the presence of

Rashi in Veda. Dr. Waradpande and Dr. Vartak has better credibility than Mr.

Kaul, who just asserts and tells you to refer to past mails but everytime he

fails to quote a single proof. He also misquotes the versions of the Calendar

Reform Committee, who referred to only the ritualistic Brahmana texts in

connection with their statement on Rashi and they had not referred to the

Puranas. Mr. Kaul does not even know the difference between the Sidereal (or

Nirayana) and the Tropical (or Seasonal or Sayana) Rashis. This is because he is

calling the Rashis with the fixed Nakshatras within them as Tropical. He also

says that the Rashis are imported without adducing any convincing proof so far.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Sat, 8/29/09, a_krishen <jyotirved wrote:

a_krishen <jyotirved

[VRI] Fwd: Re: SENSE OF SEASONS & CALENDAR REFORM

vedic_research_institute

Saturday, August 29, 2009, 8:39 AM

HinduCalendar, " a_krishen " <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:

Shri Hari Malla Ji,

Namastey!

<Please do not copy Pope Gregory in the name of the vedas.Our system is always

limited nirayan.Limited for over a thousand years.It was never purely tropical

like Gregorian calendar.Even Julian does not seem to be purely tropical.>

Why are you confusing the issues? I have made it clear time and again that the

moment we utter the word Rashi, we land in the mess of sayana and nirayana

controversies! We do not find any mention of Mesha etc. rashis till the advent

of Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha! That is why I am repeating it like a

parrot that Mesha etc. rashis were imported from Babylonia via the Greeks! Those

rashis were, of course, so called sayana!

Our puranas and tantra-shastras, in spite of what the " Parokshya Professor " may

say, invariably talk of a so called Sayana Rashichakra!

This has been clarified in BVB6 and Rashi5 etc. documents!

And that is an ample proof of the fact that all those Rashis in the puranas etc.

are post Surya Sidhanta interploations!

And that is why I go on shouting from housetops that if at all we have to choose

rashis as a sort of necessary evil for our calendar they have to be so called

Sayana but to be delinked from nakshatras! And that is what Shri Darshaney

Lokesh is doing in his tithi-patrak! And that is what I have been indicating in

the list of festivals, which is in the files section.

Pl. show me any shloka from any sidhanta or any Purana etc. that talks of

ayanamsha in the sense it is being used today! Bhaskara's Sidhanta Shiromani is

being misinterpreted by " Parokshya Professors " because of their vested

interests, just as they are foisting the spurious Rashi mantra on the VJ and

changing their stands like chameloens every moment of the day!

Since you agree that the Rashis are not vedic at all, it is obvious that by

including them in the calendar, your calendar will be anything but Vedic! And

since you want the so called nirayana rashis instead of the so called sayana

rashis as a necessary evil in your calendar, that further confirms that calendar

of yours will neither be Pauranic nor sidhantic either!

We may, as such, call your calendar by the name of Hari-Malla-calendar !

You will appreciate that a lot of communications have already been exchanged on

this topic and since you are not likely to see logic deliberately, I must put on

record that it is futile to have any further discusons with you.

Dhanyavad.

AKK

HinduCalendar, " harimalla@ " <harimalla@> wrote:

>

> Dear Darshaney Lokeshji,

> Namaskar! If not, please let me know what it is I have missed.The puranas are

also vedic.They are made to explain the vedas, not to go against the vedas. So

how are puranas non-vedic please explain that also.

> Please do not copy Pope Gregory in the name of the vedas.Our system is always

limited nirayan.Limited for over a thousand years.It was never purely tropical

like Gregorian calendar.Even Julian does not seem to be purely tropical.

> With your sayan calendar you are going to destroy the follwing vedic concepts.

> 1.Ganga (akash ganga) as the giver of mokshya by their fixedness.

> 2.Nirayan lunar months with fullmoons attached to the nakshyatras.

> 3.Prayer with Rudrakshya mala with the 108 beads which come from 108 padas of

nakshyatras.

> 4.Allthe stories of the puranas starting from the Bhagvatam.Do you think you

will ever be able to take the puranas to the creamation ground? If you think so,

it is purely your dream.

> 5.Why do you not try to understand what the Vedanga jyotish verse No. 6 says.

Is it purely tropical like the Gregorian or coordinative of the solar , lunar

and the tropical dates? Thus please do not destroy the main concept of Vedanga

Jyotish from our vedic calendar. This is my sincere request.

>

> When a method has been found to keep our traditional niryan system , why do

you find it difficult to accept? Please do not change our traditional vedic

model.Please be vedic and not western.The annual adjustment of ayanamsa is never

our vedic method,it is a recent western style introduced by Pope gregory in the

16 th. century and supported by Shankar Balakrishna Dixit in the 19th.

century.Government of india supported this same concept in the National calendar

of India and shri Kaulji calls it cosmetic touches and nothing more.Please

reconsider your opinion.Thank you.

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

>

> HinduCalendar, darshaney lokesh <darshaneylokesh@ >

wrote:

> >

> > No, please no. You are still away of the answer and this is because you do

not followed the vedic system of calendar. You have studied the Puranas only

anbd puranas are all in all for you.You cannot see beyond the boundries limited

by your prejudiced concept.You cannot cooperate in the matter of the true

calendar.

> > Darshaney Lokesh

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > " harimalla@ " <harimalla@>

> > HinduCalendar

> > Saturday, 29 August, 2009 9:02:07 AM

> > [HinduCalendar] Re: SENSE OF SEASONS & CALENDAR REFORM

> >

> > Dear Darshaney lokeshji,

> > Namaskar! thank you for your mail wherein you have asked,

> >

> > <In a previous mail I asked you to let us know about what the wrong is going

on with present calendar system that you know but you have not yet replied that

mail.>

> >

> > I agree with you that in the present calendar system,at present, the

festivals are not as per the seasons where they should have been.The tropial

uttarayan date has crossed over to the region of mangsir purnima and is not

within the poush purnima zone any more, where it was originally fixed as maagha

snana.Thus my proposal to shift maagha snana and poush purnima to the present

mangsir purnima by the 'sayan' method.This shifting of the names by one month is

allowed by the sayan method.It is aimed at coordinating the nirayan sankranti

and the sayan sankranti so they are close.

> >

> > <how the solar months are supportive by vedic study>

> >

> > Yes I would like to know how the solar months are supported by the vedic

studies.Kindly give references.

> >

> > <yet dharmashastras' s progressive interpretation in favour of sayan

panchang will play major role in getting sayana based panchanga accepted. " >

> >

> > At the present context I can also understand the sympathy of Shri Brijendra

Srivastava who is Nideshak of the Apara Jyotisham in Jivaji Vishwa Vidyalay.The

spirit of sayan based panchanga is understood.but we can satisfy this spirit by

two methods.One is jumping one month in 2150 years or adjusting ayanamsa every

year as you propose. As you well know that adjusting every year as you are

suggesting has not been practised in our culture in the past.Jumping after a

long time sudddenly has been practised, by keeping one nirayan uttarayan for a

long time, say, about 1700 years with sun in dhanstiha, during the vedanga

jyotish period and for about another 1700 years at sun in makar sankranti.Now it

is time to jump again to another nirayan uttarayan point.I am sure you know that

the present system practised is the nirayan method of celebrating the festivals.

> > I fully agree that the traditional pandits have not been able to stop where

they should have stopped by limiting the ayanamsa from increasing more than the

aceptable limit.My claim is that it should not have been let to increase more

than 15 degrees so as to coordiante th solar and the lunar uttarayan dates.

> > You well know that our system is coordinating the solar and the lunar dates

by adhimas every third year.The present proposal is to save the concept of our

adhimas system, which limits the nirayan sankranti and the nirayan fullmoons

within 15 days.You may please refer to the drawing in the file section of the

parvasudhar forum for the study of the sankranti and the full moon zones.I will

be sending one invitaion for you again.

> > Let us first communicate with each other in that forum if you so like.Then

perhaps if possible meet in the future. I am in Nepal and if I come to India I

will inform you.My telephone in Nepal is 977-1-4358809. Thank you.

> > Regards,

> > Hari Malla

> >

> > HinduCalendar, darshaney lokesh <darshaneylokesh@

....> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Hari Malla ji,

> > > Your answer is not at all relevant to my explanation on the sense of the

seasons.Prejudiced pauranic( in your words dharm shashtr) study have misled you.

In a previous mail I asked you to let us know about what the wrong is going on

with present calendar system thatyou know but you have not yet replied that

mail. Iam extracting three paras here and these are from a mail of Shr Brijendra

Srivastava who is Nideshak of theApara Jyotisham in Jivaji Vishwa Vidyalay.

Alberuni's comment given In para 6 applies to your invalied way of commenting.

Such pretentions have already harmed us too much. At least I myself cannot be

befooled by such prejudiced elements. As a student of Philosophy, I am well

known to the fact of why Brhama ji is not worshiped, how the solar months are

supportive by vedic study and why the Chandra Mas tithis are based for

celebration of some of festivals but except the following paras I stop arguing

> > > with you any way (Sorry).

> > >

> > > " 5-You have also mentioned Alberuni. AlBeruni 's book Qitaab ul Hind

(1030)AD was translated in English by German scholar Edward C.Sachau.Its Hindi

version by Noor Nabi Abbasi is available with National Book Trust.

> > >

> > > 6-AlBeruni, after studying Brahmgupta and Varahamihira etc has pointed

out, perhaps rightly, that Hindus mixup scientific questions with religion it

creats doubts and errors.

> > > 7- Your Mohan Kriti AArsh Tithi Patrak Vs2066(2009- 2010) based on Vedic

division of 6 ritus with Tropical or Sayan values is a landmark work in right

direction. Let there be more discussion onit so that 23 days error may gradually

be acceptable to nirayan panchang -kartaas. yet dharmashastras' s progressive

interpretation in favour of sayan panchang will play major role in getting

sayana based panchanga accepted. "

> > >

> > > However, if you are in India, I would like to have personal meeting with

you and for that I request you to let know your postal address and a phone

number please.

> > > Aum Sham.

> > > Darshaney Lokesh

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > " harimalla@ .. " <harimalla@ ..>

> > > HinduCalendar

> > > Thursday, 27 August, 2009 7:39:57 PM

> > > [HinduCalendar] Re: SENSE OF SEASONS & CALENDAR REFORM

> > >

> > > Dear Darshaney Lokeshji,

> > > Namaskar! I am indeed very happy to have got your reaction to my

mentioning of the lunar ayanas and seasons.

> > > Yes I agree that the mooon goes generally around the earth.But does it

exactly go round the earth centre?

> > > Dharma shastras mention that the centre of the lunar orbit is not the

earth which is prakriti, but it is Purush, which is God.All the 12 lunar months

in the year have this Purush except the adhimas.When Adhimaas went to complain

to Narayan(the Surya Narayan) that he has no purush to count on, then Narayan is

said to have committed to take care him by Narayan himself.Thus the adhimas is

also known as 'purushottam' month instead of just purush month.

> > > Is it not that all our festivals are celebrated by the lunar dates because

God or Krishna or Shiva is at the centre of the lunar months.

> > > Thus please note that all the parvas including the seasons and the ayanas

are best celebrated by the lunar tithis and months.This was the system in the

vedanga jyotish days.This is how the religious pople clebrate even now a

days.This is what dharma shastras like Dharma sindhu and Kalamadhav say. If

makar sankranti is solar uttarayan, poush purnima celebrated as maagha snana is

the lunar uttarayan celebrated.Makar sankranti falls at the middle of the

fluctaion of the poush purnima tithi.Which is the reason why makar sankranti is

taken as the nirayn uttrayan solar date.

> > > The tropical uttarayan date is not celebrated in our vedic culture.

> > >

> > > The solar months are artificial months, divided by humans into 12 equal

parts. But the lunar month is the only natural vedic month and on top of that we

experience God or purush at the centre of the lunar motnhs. So why the

hesitation to give top priority to it? Is it we have been brainswashed by the

western tropical months or the rashi solar months? But these are only additions

later on and not originally vedic as Shri Kaulji has proved beyond doubt.So let

us discuss this till we are all satisfied.I have also said that it is prohibited

to celebrate by the sayan dates for the reason that Brahmaji, seated at the pole

star is not worshipped.This is the decision of Lord Shiva who wears the lunar

crescent upon his head.

> > > If you like we can disciuss the three types of poles, the gegraphical

pole, the ecliptic pole and the lunar pole in the next mail. Thank you,

> > > Regards,

> > > Hari Malla

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar, darshaney lokesh <darshaneylokesh@

....> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear members,

> > > > Namastey.The following underlined

> > > > portion is extracted

> > > > from one

> > > > of the latest mails of Hari Malla ji. Despite of my best regards to him,

I am

> > > > bound to reveal you the fact that he has little understanding of impaact

of precession

> > > > of equinox. Note that a day i.e. Dinman and a night i.e. Ratriman are

the

> > > > UNITS of Months, then Ritus, then Ayans and then finally of the Varsh

> > > > i.e. years.

> > > > As we all know that theses days and nights

> > > > are caused

> > > > by 'On axis rotation of the earth ( in front

> > > > of the Sun) and Ritus are caused by movements of the same earth but on

it's

> > > > ecliptical path around the Sun. Likewise the Ayans are caused by maximum

south

> > > > (Uttarayan) and North (Daxinayan) declination with relation to the Sun.

The Sun

> > > > and the earth are only the base elements of day and nights

> > > > and not the Moon. I

> > > > would like to make it very clear that

> > > > the timeitself even a fraction of a

> > > > second is created only by

> > > > the ever prevailing relationship of sun and the earth.Moon

> > > > is none where in context .In this

> > > > connection remember able is

> > > > a famous reply of our ex President Dr APJ Abdul Kalam to

> > > > the question put by some one

> > > > politician that whether the

> > > > President would like to have fixed

> > > > an auspicious muhurth

> > > > for his swearing as President

> > > > of the country? The Moon is

> > > > contextive but in Tithis, Eclipses, yogas like Vyatipaat

> > > > and Vaidhriti and

> > > > lunar month including Adhi or Kshya

> > > > months.

> > > > We also know that the Moon has no

> > > > light of it's own

> > > > and that it

> > > > revolves around the earth only. With the Moon

> > > > creates only tithis from 1st to 15th

> > > > (BFN) and 16th to 30th

> > > > (DFN). Duration of these tithis or Moon Rise and Moon

> > > > Set does not give us any Day or Night i.e. Dinman or

> > > > Ratriman. and thus this Luna i.e. the Moon cannot give

> > > > us the Seasons and Ayans as the way the Sun gives.

> > > > Neither at reaching it's Zero declination Moon can give

> > > > us equal Day and Night duration

> > > > nor at it's maximum

> > > > declination it can give us the

> > > > extended day/night or shortned

> > > > night/day. Neither we can do it's Chhayendu Sadhan nor

> > > > we can observe any Lats and Longs with the help of Moon.

> > > > Rigved clearifies that the

> > > > Sungoverns the earth and not the moon,

> > > > " UXAADADHARPRITHIVI MUT DYAAM. "

> > > > More over much talked

> > > > Ayanamsha is a total precesion

> > > > of the ayan and that has nothing

> > > > to do for calendar

> > > > making. By renaming the Chaitr as

> > > > Vaisakh on the every year

> > > > of need we can modulate our time being solution

> > > > in the

> > > > calendar but think it

> > > > seriously, it will be just next to

> > > > impossible for you to trace out

> > > > the date of a long past i.e.

> > > > 200, 300. 400...... and son years

> > > > back. One by one but

> > > > anomalies will remain there unavoidable.

> > > > The concept of NIRAYANA ( I call it

> > > > niraadhar) proclaims

> > > > that the earth revolves around the Chitra Taara and not that

> > > > of the sun. When earth crosses the midway line of the

> > > > said

> > > > Chitra tara and enters from North to South or South to

> > > > North

> > > > it fixes the starting points of the Mesha and Tula. Now please

> > > > mind it that the said taara is 260

> > > > LY far from our Sun and is

> > > > beyond two degree south of the

> > > > ecliptic. So,Ritus (Season) and

> > > > say every thing related to

> > > > the life on earth is not effected by any

> > > > star other than the Sun. To trade

> > > > on the Nirayana or even Sayana

> > > > is nothing but " Andhainaiv neeyamaana yatha andhah " .Option

> > > > is open for what to do or what

> > > > not to do.

> > > > As a dedicated person to the subject

> > > > of Calendar Reform I

> > > > request all erudites like Hari

> > > > Malla jiwho is also conducting a

> > > > group on Parv Sudhar to please be proper by improving himself

> > > > first otherwise better to stop

> > > > talking on this subject of Parv Sudhar.

> > > > i.e PAHLE KHUD KO SUDHAREN HUM OR

> > > > TUB BAAT

> > > > KAREN PARV SUDHAR KI TO ACHHA HOGA.

> > > > Aum Sham!

> > > >

> > > > Darshaney Lokesh

> > > >

> > > > Sampadak,

> > > >

> > > > Shree Mohan Krity arsh tithi Patrak

> > > > and

> > > > Genl Secretary,

> > > >

> > > > Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar samiti,

> > > > Greater

> > > > Noida (UP)- 201310

> > > > Ph : 0120-6544628 (M) 09412354036

> > > >

> > > > Note - Shree Mohan Krity arsh Tithi Patrak is neither SayanA nor

> > > > NirayanA and intimates you about correct Sankrantis, unequal

> > > > division of all the prominient 28 nakshtra and also the correct

> > > > dates of the festivals, muhurtas adhi-masas etc.This Patrak for the

> > > > 'Krodhi' Samvatsar 2067 is already calculated and is likely to be

> > > > published by Oct 2009.

> > > >

> > > > = = = = = = = = = =

> > > > 1.There are not only solar seasons but also lunar seasons as depicted

> > > > by our tithis.Thus we have both lunar ayana as well as lunar seasons.

> > > > The lunar chaitra and lunar vaisakh months make lunar vasanta.poush

> > > > full moon or magh sukla pratiada and Asadh full moon or shravan sukla

> > > > pratipada are respecively purnimanta and amanta lunar uttarayan and

> > > > dakhinayan respectively.

> > > >

> > > > 2.Thus the lunar tithis are both connected to the nakshyatras and the

> > > > seasons.The poush full moon is connected to purshya nakshyatra and

> > > > Asadha fullmoon to purva asadha and uttar Ashadha nakshyatra etc.

> > > >

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>

--- End forwarded message ---

August 30, 2009