On Seeing Deities from the 12th from Karakamsa

September 17, 2009

sri ganeshaya namah.

dear narasimhaji,

namaste.

very excellent post. i also somehow agree karkamsa could refer to the AK

division in d-20,since we are looking for deities and since dieties are shown by

vimsamsa.

i do not understand when maharshi parasara clearly mentioned to use

D-9 only for kalatra and marraige, why do many astrologer see soo many things

from navamsa which are no where related to marriage , thus undermining the usage

/ emphasis of other vargas.

just wanted to understand , if 12th from AK in D-20 is unoccupied , should we

see grahas having rasi dristi on this sign ? or should we see which planets

associate with lord of 12th from AK?

humbly,

chandan s sabarwal.

vedic astrology , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> I mentioned a formula that occurs commonly in the charts of spiritual greats,

though it is not that common in regular charts. The long discussion on sohamsa

that followed that post ignored the actual formula and its building blocks and

focused on other things. I want to say more on one important building block used

in that formula.

>

> * * *

>

> In the chapter called " kaarakaamsa phala " in BPHS, Parasara mentioned the

deities worshipped based on the planets in the 12th from kaarakaamsha. For

example, Sun in 12th from AK shows a worshipper of Shiva and Moon in 12th from

AK shows a worshipper of Gouri.

>

> The term " kaarakaamsa " means " AK's amsa " . Amsa only means division. Which amsa

or division is Parasara referring to?

>

> Though people jumped to the conclusion that amsa means navaamsa by default,

there is one more important thing to consider here. At the onset itself,

Parasara clarified which amsas (divisions) are used for which purposes. He

clearly said " upaasanaayaaH viGYaanaM saadhyaM viMshati bhaagake " , meaning " the

knowledge of one's worship and spiritual practices is possible in D-20 " .

>

> If, having said that at the onset, he defines which deities are worshipped

based on the 12th house from AK in an " amsa " , can the amsa in question be

anything other than D-20?! After all, he clearly said one's upaasanaa is seen

from D-20. So the principles laid out later by Parasara for upaasanaa *must* be

referring to D-20 by " amsa " and *not* D-9 as people normally take.

>

> * * *

>

> People faithfully follow tradition and suggest specific ishta devatas to

people. However, had some spiritual greats who were liberated by the grace of a

deity come to us, we would've probably prescribed a different deity to them.

There are several examples and I will share a few here.

>

> Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's AK Rahu is in Cp in D-9 and Sun (Raama/Maatangi) is

alone in 12th owned by Jupiter (Vaamana/Taaraa). Pt Sanjay Rath once argued with

me that Lord Rama (Sun) is Ramakrishna's ishta devata and tried to justify it

alluding to things from Ramakrishna's childhood. He also said that Tara

(Jupiter) is Ramakrishna's ishta devata, because the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar

temple was called " Bhava Taarini " (one who makes one cross the material world).

>

> Such logic is unreasonable. Bottomline is that Ramakrishna revered and

surrendered to mother Kaali. He saw her in an idol, in a cat, in a flower, in

the entire creation and in the light that fills the entire universe. The one who

appears scary to several was a beautiful and loving mother to him and She guided

his life completely and liberated him. Even before entering nirvikalpa samadhi

(a state beyond forms, including the Kaali form), he asked Kaali for permission.

That shows what Kaali meant to him! If Jyotish principles you use show Raama or

Taaraa as his ishta devata, probably your knowledge is incomplete or incorrect.

>

> In the case of Sarada Mata, AK Moon is in Sg in D-9 and Sc is empty. Mars and

Ketu own it. One would've suggested Narasimha or Bagalamukhi for Mars or

Matsyavatara or Dhumavati for Ketu. Her life too was guided (and liberated) by

mother Kaali.

>

> In the case of Swami Vivekananda, AK Sun is in Sg. Jupiter is in 12th and Mars

owns it. One would've suggested Vaamana or Taaraa for Jupiter or Narasimha or

Bagalamukhi for Mars. Swamiji was into Gayatri mantra and Chandipath. He saw

Kaali as a girl and talked to her for most of the second half of his life and

derived his energy from her. He remarked in his last few days that the girl

Kaali who was around him and giving him energy was no longer visible. If one has

saayujya (togetherness) of a deity while living and the deity is constantly

guiding one, that definitely must be one's ishta devata.

>

> For Ramana Maharshi, 12th from AK Moon contains Ketu in navamsa and Venus owns

and aspects 12th. However, he obtained liberation guided by Shiva at

Arunachalam.

>

> * * *

>

> If we cannot see the correct deity in the case of spiritual giants who

succeeded by surrendering to a specific deity, what good are our principles and

how well can we guide people?

>

> * * *

>

> I suggest going back to Parasara and using D-20 instead of D-9. There is one

special point when Rahu is AK.

>

> Planets have argala on the 3rd, 10th and 12th houses from them. Parasara

taught that these houses are counted *anti-zodiacally* when we find the argala

of *Rahu and Ketu* on various signs and planets. This makes sense intuitively,

as Rahu and Ketu move anti-zodiacally. What Rahu considers as the 1st or 2nd

house from him would be based on his anti-zodiacal movement. If 0-30 deg from

the longitude of Mars is 1st house from Mars, 30-60 deg from the longitude of

Mars is 2nd house from Mars and so on, as Parasara taught in BPHS, then 360-330

deg from Rahu's longitude must be the 1st house from Rahu and 330-300 deg from

Rahu's longitude must be the 2nd house from Rahu and so on. Even in the

evaluation of chara karakas, Parasara mentioned subtracting Rahu's progress in

sign from 30 deg and that is consistent with this entire philosophy.

>

> Thus, I conclude that houses should be reckoned anti-zodiacally from Rahu, if

Rahu is AK.

>

> * * *

>

> Now, let us revisit previous examples. I am using Jagannatha ayanamsa. I will

stick to Parasara's approach and build on it, rather than use the list of

dasavataras or dasa mahavidyas. For example, Sun shows Shiva according to

Parasara, when influencing the 12th from AK in amsa (D-20). I will not take Sun

to show Rama or Maatangi. Instead of trying to see trees without checking if we

are in the right forest, let us first focus on seeing the forest.

>

> In the case of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, AK Rahu is in Cp in D-20. The 12th

house counted anti-zodiacally is Aq, owned by Saturn and Rahu, who are together

with Ketu in Cp. As per Parasara, Rahu (and also Saturn sometimes) shows

taamasik deities such as Durga ( " taamasIm durgaaM " , said Parasara) and ugra

devatas. Out of the deities listed by Parasara, this is the group that Kaali

would fall in.

>

> In the case of Sarada Mata, AK Moon is in Ta in D-20. The 12th house is Ar,

owned by Mars. Mars is with Saturn in Aq and both aspect Ar. Rahu and Ketu also

aspect it. The influence of Aq, Saturn and Rahu is coming again, like in

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Again Kaali is fine.

>

> In the case of Swami Vivekananda, AK Sun is in Pi in D-20. The 12th from him

is Aq containing Rahu and Ketu and Saturn owns it. Again, the same influence as

the above two charts is seen, which makes sense.

>

> See, the three of them have the same influences on the 12th from AK in D-20!

>

> Just to contrast, let us take another sishya of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, who

was a Vaishnava. Take Swami Trigunatitananda (1865 Jan 30, 9:26 pm LMT, Naora,

India). AK Jupiter is in Cn In D-20. The 12th is Ge and is empty. Only Saturn

aspects it from Vi. Mercury owns Ge. The influence of Mercury and Saturn

according to Parasara shows a devotee of Vishnu. Swami Trigunatitananda was

indeed a Vaishnava.

>

> In the case of Srila Prabhupada, AK Rahu is in Sg. The 12th from him reckoned

anti-zodiacally is Cp. Its lord Saturn is in Gemini owned Mercury and aspected

by Mercury. Saturn and Mercury show Vaishnavas. He realized god through his

surrender to Krishna, a form of Vishnu.

>

> In the case of Tridandi Chinna Jeeyar Swami (in the parampara of

Ramanujacharya), AK Moon is in Cn in D-20. The 12th house Ge is owned by Mercury

and Saturn occupies it. He has realized whatever he has realized so far, through

devotion to Vishnu.

>

> In the case of Ramana Maharshi, AK Moon is in Aq in D-20. The 12th from him is

Cp. It is empty. Jupiter with nodes in a friendly sign aspects it. Parasara

emphasized connection with Ketu in his formulas for 12th from AK. So, we will

take Jupiter's aspect on Cp to be more important than Saturn's ownership.

Jupiter shows Shiva. Ramana Maharshi was devoted to Shiva at Arunachalam and

realized Self.

>

> In the case of Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, AK Saturn is in Cp in D-20. The

12th from him is owned by Jupiter. He too was devoted to Shiva and realized

Self.

>

> Take Prof. K.S. Krishnamoorthy (1908 November 1, 12:11 pm IST, Thiruvaiyaru),

the inventer of KP. His AK Rahu is in Sc in D-20. The 12th from it reckoned

anti-zodiacally is Sg. Its lord Jupiter is in Sc with 4 other planets. The

strongest influence there is that of Ketu. Moreover, Sg is Ketu's exaltation

sign. He was devoted to Ganapathi.

>

> Take a person with birthdata 1968 March 19 evening, India. AK Saturn is in Vi

in D-20. The 12th lord from him is in a Martian sign. Mars in moolatrikona is

aspecting 12th and 12th lord. His dominating influence suggests Kartikeya. He

indeed practiced a Subrahmanya mantra and had several mystical experiences and

making good progress towards realization.

>

> In the case of Swami Ramakrishnananda (disciple of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa),

steadfast devotion to spiritual master was the liberating factor. He constantly

served Ramakrishna when he was here and worshipped his relics everyday without

fail after he left. Once he requested Ramakrishna for some spiritual

experiences, seeing the experiences and ecstasy of other disciples. When

Ramakrishna said, " I can do that. But you will not be able to serve me after

that " , he withdrew his request and said he was then not interested in any

experiences! He became liberated through complete surrender, perfect devotion

and tireless service to his guru. He was born on 1863 July 13 at 4:56 am LMT at

Ichchapur, India. His AK Sun is in Aq in D-20. There are 3 planets in Cp, but

only Jupiter is in the 12th house from Sun, based on Sun's divisional longitude

in D-20.

>

> In the case of Paramahamsa Yogananda (of kriya yoga and " Self-Realization

Fellowship " and author of " Autobiography of a Yogi " ), AK Venus is in Ar in D-20.

The 12th from him is owned by Jupiter, who joins nodes. Jupiter can show Shiva,

but he can also show surrender to a great guru, like in the above example.

Paramahamsa Yogananda may have worshipped several deities, but his surrender to

his guru Yukteshwar Maharaj (whom he met at 17) and guru parampara (from

Mahavatar Babaji) is what liberated him.

>

> * * *

>

> You can see that I am sticking to the basic classification instead of using

dasavataras or dasa mahavidyas. If the 12th from AK in navamsa has Jupiter, some

suggest Vaamana and some suggest Taaraa, while Pararsara said Shiva. It is

important to see the forest first and then try to see the trees. Clearly,

Parasara's indications in BPHS show that the 12th from AK in amsa (D-20) is

meant to see the forest (Shiva or Vishnu or Gouri or Kartikeya etc). Seeing the

specific form of Vishnu or Shiva or Gouri etc must be from other modifying

factors. I will not go into that. But, I want to emphasize that going into trees

without making sure you are in the right forest is not so wise!

>

> There seem to be corruptions in our current knowledge. Going back to Parasara

faithfully, thinking logically and simplifying things will be helpful in getting

more consistent results, in many areas. Unless the principles one uses are

verified based on reliable data (e.g. charts of people who indeed made great

spiritual progress by worshipping a specific deity), they just remain

theoretical and their utility questionable.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

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> Spirituality:

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> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

September 17, 2009

Dear Narasimha, namaste...

You say that:

-----------------------------

>

> If, having said that at the onset, he defines which deities are worshipped

> based on the 12th house from AK in an " amsa " , can the amsa in question be

> anything other than D-20?! After all, he clearly said one's upaasanaa is

> seen from D-20. So the principles laid out later by Parasara for upaasanaa

> *must* be referring to D-20 by " amsa " and *not* D-9 as people normally take.

>

----------------------------

Does it means that you do not take into consideration at all the opinion of

Irangati and other jyotishas who would look into Krishna Misra Navamsa and

see Deity from there ?

> .

>

regards, Medh

September 17, 2009

Namaste,

I mentioned a formula that occurs commonly in the charts of spiritual greats,

though it is not that common in regular charts. The long discussion on sohamsa

that followed that post ignored the actual formula and its building blocks and

focused on other things. I want to say more on one important building block used

in that formula.

* * *

In the chapter called " kaarakaamsa phala " in BPHS, Parasara mentioned the

deities worshipped based on the planets in the 12th from kaarakaamsha. For

example, Sun in 12th from AK shows a worshipper of Shiva and Moon in 12th from

AK shows a worshipper of Gouri.

The term " kaarakaamsa " means " AK's amsa " . Amsa only means division. Which amsa

or division is Parasara referring to?

Though people jumped to the conclusion that amsa means navaamsa by default,

there is one more important thing to consider here. At the onset itself,

Parasara clarified which amsas (divisions) are used for which purposes. He

clearly said " upaasanaayaaH viGYaanaM saadhyaM viMshati bhaagake " , meaning " the

knowledge of one's worship and spiritual practices is possible in D-20 " .

If, having said that at the onset, he defines which deities are worshipped based

on the 12th house from AK in an " amsa " , can the amsa in question be anything

other than D-20?! After all, he clearly said one's upaasanaa is seen from D-20.

So the principles laid out later by Parasara for upaasanaa *must* be referring

to D-20 by " amsa " and *not* D-9 as people normally take.

* * *

People faithfully follow tradition and suggest specific ishta devatas to people.

However, had some spiritual greats who were liberated by the grace of a deity

come to us, we would've probably prescribed a different deity to them. There are

several examples and I will share a few here.

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's AK Rahu is in Cp in D-9 and Sun (Raama/Maatangi) is

alone in 12th owned by Jupiter (Vaamana/Taaraa). Pt Sanjay Rath once argued with

me that Lord Rama (Sun) is Ramakrishna's ishta devata and tried to justify it

alluding to things from Ramakrishna's childhood. He also said that Tara

(Jupiter) is Ramakrishna's ishta devata, because the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar

temple was called " Bhava Taarini " (one who makes one cross the material world).

Such logic is unreasonable. Bottomline is that Ramakrishna revered and

surrendered to mother Kaali. He saw her in an idol, in a cat, in a flower, in

the entire creation and in the light that fills the entire universe. The one who

appears scary to several was a beautiful and loving mother to him and She guided

his life completely and liberated him. Even before entering nirvikalpa samadhi

(a state beyond forms, including the Kaali form), he asked Kaali for permission.

That shows what Kaali meant to him! If Jyotish principles you use show Raama or

Taaraa as his ishta devata, probably your knowledge is incomplete or incorrect.

In the case of Sarada Mata, AK Moon is in Sg in D-9 and Sc is empty. Mars and

Ketu own it. One would've suggested Narasimha or Bagalamukhi for Mars or

Matsyavatara or Dhumavati for Ketu. Her life too was guided (and liberated) by

mother Kaali.

In the case of Swami Vivekananda, AK Sun is in Sg. Jupiter is in 12th and Mars

owns it. One would've suggested Vaamana or Taaraa for Jupiter or Narasimha or

Bagalamukhi for Mars. Swamiji was into Gayatri mantra and Chandipath. He saw

Kaali as a girl and talked to her for most of the second half of his life and

derived his energy from her. He remarked in his last few days that the girl

Kaali who was around him and giving him energy was no longer visible. If one has

saayujya (togetherness) of a deity while living and the deity is constantly

guiding one, that definitely must be one's ishta devata.

For Ramana Maharshi, 12th from AK Moon contains Ketu in navamsa and Venus owns

and aspects 12th. However, he obtained liberation guided by Shiva at

Arunachalam.

* * *

If we cannot see the correct deity in the case of spiritual giants who succeeded

by surrendering to a specific deity, what good are our principles and how well

can we guide people?

* * *

I suggest going back to Parasara and using D-20 instead of D-9. There is one

special point when Rahu is AK.

Planets have argala on the 3rd, 10th and 12th houses from them. Parasara taught

that these houses are counted *anti-zodiacally* when we find the argala of *Rahu

and Ketu* on various signs and planets. This makes sense intuitively, as Rahu

and Ketu move anti-zodiacally. What Rahu considers as the 1st or 2nd house from

him would be based on his anti-zodiacal movement. If 0-30 deg from the longitude

of Mars is 1st house from Mars, 30-60 deg from the longitude of Mars is 2nd

house from Mars and so on, as Parasara taught in BPHS, then 360-330 deg from

Rahu's longitude must be the 1st house from Rahu and 330-300 deg from Rahu's

longitude must be the 2nd house from Rahu and so on. Even in the evaluation of

chara karakas, Parasara mentioned subtracting Rahu's progress in sign from 30

deg and that is consistent with this entire philosophy.

Thus, I conclude that houses should be reckoned anti-zodiacally from Rahu, if

Rahu is AK.

* * *

Now, let us revisit previous examples. I am using Jagannatha ayanamsa. I will

stick to Parasara's approach and build on it, rather than use the list of

dasavataras or dasa mahavidyas. For example, Sun shows Shiva according to

Parasara, when influencing the 12th from AK in amsa (D-20). I will not take Sun

to show Rama or Maatangi. Instead of trying to see trees without checking if we

are in the right forest, let us first focus on seeing the forest.

In the case of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, AK Rahu is in Cp in D-20. The 12th house

counted anti-zodiacally is Aq, owned by Saturn and Rahu, who are together with

Ketu in Cp. As per Parasara, Rahu (and also Saturn sometimes) shows taamasik

deities such as Durga ( " taamasIm durgaaM " , said Parasara) and ugra devatas. Out

of the deities listed by Parasara, this is the group that Kaali would fall in.

In the case of Sarada Mata, AK Moon is in Ta in D-20. The 12th house is Ar,

owned by Mars. Mars is with Saturn in Aq and both aspect Ar. Rahu and Ketu also

aspect it. The influence of Aq, Saturn and Rahu is coming again, like in

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Again Kaali is fine.

In the case of Swami Vivekananda, AK Sun is in Pi in D-20. The 12th from him is

Aq containing Rahu and Ketu and Saturn owns it. Again, the same influence as the

above two charts is seen, which makes sense.

See, the three of them have the same influences on the 12th from AK in D-20!

Just to contrast, let us take another sishya of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, who was

a Vaishnava. Take Swami Trigunatitananda (1865 Jan 30, 9:26 pm LMT, Naora,

India). AK Jupiter is in Cn In D-20. The 12th is Ge and is empty. Only Saturn

aspects it from Vi. Mercury owns Ge. The influence of Mercury and Saturn

according to Parasara shows a devotee of Vishnu. Swami Trigunatitananda was

indeed a Vaishnava.

In the case of Srila Prabhupada, AK Rahu is in Sg. The 12th from him reckoned

anti-zodiacally is Cp. Its lord Saturn is in Gemini owned Mercury and aspected

by Mercury. Saturn and Mercury show Vaishnavas. He realized god through his

surrender to Krishna, a form of Vishnu.

In the case of Tridandi Chinna Jeeyar Swami (in the parampara of

Ramanujacharya), AK Moon is in Cn in D-20. The 12th house Ge is owned by Mercury

and Saturn occupies it. He has realized whatever he has realized so far, through

devotion to Vishnu.

In the case of Ramana Maharshi, AK Moon is in Aq in D-20. The 12th from him is

Cp. It is empty. Jupiter with nodes in a friendly sign aspects it. Parasara

emphasized connection with Ketu in his formulas for 12th from AK. So, we will

take Jupiter's aspect on Cp to be more important than Saturn's ownership.

Jupiter shows Shiva. Ramana Maharshi was devoted to Shiva at Arunachalam and

realized Self.

In the case of Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, AK Saturn is in Cp in D-20. The

12th from him is owned by Jupiter. He too was devoted to Shiva and realized

Self.

Take Prof. K.S. Krishnamoorthy (1908 November 1, 12:11 pm IST, Thiruvaiyaru),

the inventer of KP. His AK Rahu is in Sc in D-20. The 12th from it reckoned

anti-zodiacally is Sg. Its lord Jupiter is in Sc with 4 other planets. The

strongest influence there is that of Ketu. Moreover, Sg is Ketu's exaltation

sign. He was devoted to Ganapathi.

Take a person with birthdata 1968 March 19 evening, India. AK Saturn is in Vi in

D-20. The 12th lord from him is in a Martian sign. Mars in moolatrikona is

aspecting 12th and 12th lord. His dominating influence suggests Kartikeya. He

indeed practiced a Subrahmanya mantra and had several mystical experiences and

making good progress towards realization.

In the case of Swami Ramakrishnananda (disciple of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa),