Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , AKKaul@@ wrote: Shri Prashant Pandey ji, Jai Shri Ram! <It was really impossible to break the ice without showing the real proof(though those are against Hindu astrology but facts are facts), that Divisional charts are stand alone creativities and as much older as Rashi charts.> Regarding varga charts, we find their definition first of all in Sphujidwaja's yavanajatakam. Pl. see chapter 1, shlokas 30 to 58 at http://www.astrojyoti.com/yavanajatakamainpage.htm <http://www.astrojyoti.com/yavanajatakamainpage.htm> Thus It is not only planetary astronomy in the form of Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha, the first so called indigenous astronomical work to calculate planets vis-a-vis Mesha etc. rashis, that was imported from the Greeks, but even phalita jyotisha! This is evident from the following lines on top of the " Yavana Jataka " by Yavanacharya, in the the above website, and I quote, " Page 1 Sage Yavana, who belonged to the Alexander period, wrote Yavana Jataka. He was an astrologer in the Greek court in India. Because of this he was called Yavanacharya or Greek Guru, and hence a lot of western astrologers claim that Indians learned astrology from the Greeks!! There are a few areas where his interpretations of results are different. Because of this it is an important classic. The teachings of Yavanacharya were recorded by a king called Sphujidhwaja " . Interestingly, the above site has not been hosted by some " David Pingree " but by Pandit S.P.Tata H-5/3, 3rd Floor Malviya Nagar New Delhi - 110017. It is a moot point as to how Yavanacharya was an astrologer of the time of Alexander and simultaneously " pontificated " in a Greek court in India then! We must bear in mind that there were no Mesha etc. rashis in Inida prior to the Surya Sidhanta in India, and that work is of a later era i.e. around first century BCE/AD, whereas Alexander was actually from Macedonia (Balkan Penninusual), who conquered Greek states and then invaded India in around 326 BCE! If you go through this Yavanajataka, chapter 2 and other chapters, a bit carefully and then compare the contents with that of Brihat Jatakam by the greatest charlatan of the last two millenia, you will not see much difference, especially in the description of Hora, Dreshkana etc. If you can get hold of the original Yavana Jtakam in Sanskrit (Vol I and Vol -II), edited by David Pingree and published by Harvard University Press in 1970, you will see it for yourself that the names and definitions of the Rashis in that work in Greek are more or less the same in Brihat Jatakam by Varahamihira, and Varahamihira was around fifth century AD, a " successor " to Yavanacharya! I think that should put to rest the tug of war whether the divisional charts and Mesha etc. rashis emanated from South India or North India! They actually emanated from the Greeks! And as is is an open secret by now, we are experts in calling evey technique in predictive gimmicks of Indian origin, only to make a fool of ourselves! Jai Shri Ram! Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , Prashant-Pandey@@ wrote: Dear Shri Manoj ji, >  > Thanks for your response ! >  > It was really impossible to break the ice without showing the real proof(though those are against Hindu astrology but facts are facts), that Divisional charts are stand alone creativities and as much older as Rashi charts. >  > I am sending one more link as third person's voice to get  more clear cut idea about it.... >  > In below link please try to reach on following heading :- >  > " Appendix: Two Systems of Decan Rulership " >  > and read the second column of lordships which is in accordace with lordship of D-1 charts (means in order like this Mars,Venus,Mercury,Moon, Sun .....) and leads to three different- different charts of D-3 and in accordance of it 3 parts of the body have been divided means if lagna is rising in first Dreskkana then what cycle would be taken of 3 charts and which part would be impacted on body.... >  > http://www.bendykes.com/articles/decans.htm >  > If you want to read how much older this concept have been ie DECANS, then again please read third persons voice.... >  > In below link please go to " History "  heading and read about the Dendera Zodiac's age which was egyptian Zodiac and according to it they used to make calendar... >  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendera_zodiac >  > Hope now everything is clear and one should keep in mind that Divisional charts are separate separate entity and Greeks try to club it with Indian D-1 Rashi concept in India and on the same theme other Divisional charts came in existence.... >  > Nadi scriptures are only specialisation on D-1 with D-9 so those are off-shoots of BPHS which is bible of astrology around the globe now-a days.... >  > I just push this mail as Giant's work were being abused by ONE ABUSER who use to abuse all... >  > Regs, > Prashant Pandey >  > > --- On Tue, 13/10/09, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > Manoj Kumar mouji99@ > Re: History of Varga Charts !!! > " Prashant " praspandey@ > Tuesday, 13 October, 2009, 8:41 PM nice explanation but we have enough in hindu astrology than to be depending on civilizations which depended on hindus for their knowledge. Good effort. Congrats > > > > > > Prashant praspandey@ > S.C. Kursija sckursija@ > Tue, October 13, 2009 6:56:20 AM > Re: History of Varga Charts !!! Dear Shri Kursijaji, >  > Neither i am Pt nor Respected as i am not an astrologer (Jyotishi), yes i have deep interest in History of astronomy, astronomy and civilizations and political matters. >  > Actually works of B V Raman, K N Rao, Sanjay Rath, PVR, G K Goel, Santhanam were being abused so i was forced to break the silence as truth is something different.I dont say you should get agree with me but at least read the truth.... >  > I am saying again and again that D Charts are of very old creativities and those are separate charts and Greek did exercise of clubbing Rashi chart(Of indian origin) with D Charts(Basically D-3 of Egyptian) in India with Indian Mathematics. Varahmihir person of 5 cent AD has written in his works about D charts, so how D charts could be just 300 years older creativities... >  > If i am wrong, plz read on your own, voice of third person about divisional chart :- >  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decans >  > Number 108 is of indian origin and from there D-9 came in existence....D-9 went to Nadi as D-9 deals with Dharma or one may say Fate of evrything..So in Nadi works there is complete exrcise of concepts with D-9 and D-1 >  > For rest 2 queries which you have written in your mail like :- >  > 1. The names of Rashi are available in Veda which is the accepted oldest literature available. > 2. You yourself have accepted that the calculation used in Suryasidhant is origin of India. When you say that Syryasidhant is Indian origin, it means that we know the ecliptic path, rashi, ayanamsha and nakshtra etc. >  > I have answers with proofs to refute your points, but you are Vedic-Astrologer so i dont think you should come across of it.Hope you will mind if my language is aggressive any where and sorry in advance as i am aggressive writer. >  > Regs, > Prashant Pandey >  > PS:- My request is not to abuse D charts even in dreams as those are ancient creativities and i have shown with proofs. > > --- On Tue, 13/10/09, S.C. Kursija sckursija@ wrote: > > > S.C. Kursija sckursija@ > Re: History of Varga Charts !!! > " Prashant " praspandey@ > Tuesday, 13 October, 2009, 1:13 PM > Respected Pt.Prashant ji, > I am sorry that I can not agree with you so for the history of astrology is concerned. The names of Rashi are available in Veda which is the accepted oldest literature available. There are certainly some developments and mixing of two cultures and in astrology after the attack of Alexander, You yourself have accepted that the calculation used in Suryasidhant is origin of India. When you say that Syryasidhant is Indian origin, it means that we know the ecliptic path, rashi, ayanamsha and nakshtra etc. > Regards > > --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Prashant praspandey@ wrote: > > > Prashant praspandey@ > History of Varga Charts !!! > To: > Monday, October 12, 2009, 11:00 PM > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > Varga Charts are one of the oldest creations and those are separate charts and it came in existence at same time when Rashi chart came….. > > 1) Greeks came to India in 3'rd BCE with Egyptians thinking as their interactions were older then Indians... > > 2) Egyptians were using 36 parts around the ecliptic(Not exactly there was ecliptic concept)and all parts had deities and those parts were known as Decante or one may say Drekkanna (This is at least 4000 yrs older astronomical fact of Egyptians).. ..If I am liar plz read that Drekkana also use to have deities…. > > 3) Indians were using 12 parts around ecliptic (not exactly around on ecliptic as there was no ecliptic concept in ancient time) as clear from VEDAS verses... > > 4) Greeks and Babylonians created constellation in the name of Rashis in 4'th Century BCE sorry Vice-Versa.. . > > 5) Now with attacks of Alexander on India (In 3'rd Cent BCE), things started flowing to India or one may say 4-5 civilization got mixed up and and real astrology started caming in existence which we know now days around the world… > > Mathematics used in Suryasidhanta is of Indian origin but certainly views to get calculated things from 4-5 civilizations… > > 5) When Rashi chart came in existence (means in 1'st BCE) at the same time Drekkana chart came in existence (because Drekkana was ancient Egyptian concept and Rashi was Indian) but Greeks clubbed those and after this ppl got the idea to partitioning thirty degrees in many divisions and those took separate separate charts and they clubbed it with Rashi chart...So D charts are originated at same time when Rashi chart originated.. . > > It is obvious thing if there are two sets, one is having 12 counts and other 36 then which could be division of what?? > > 6) Rashi and D-3 chart are the oldest creation of astrology or one may same came in existence at same time and those were also separate chart…Clubbing of those separate charts gave thinking of separate separate Divisional charts of other harmonics but clubbing of D-Charts with Rashi chart was also one aspect as 12 counts of ecliptic is the lowest part of ecliptic… > > So BPHS is the oldest treatise which talks of D-Charts among all astrological books and other are off shoots of it, like Nadi etc etc... > > So My salutations to B V Raman, K N Rao, Santhanam, PVR, Sanjay Rath, GK Goel who propogated D Charts in India and in whole world… > > Thanks and Regards, > Prashant Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the new India Homepage. > > > > From cricket scores to your friends. Try the India Homepage! > > > > Connect more, do more and share more with India Mail. Learn more. > > > Try the new India Homepage. http://in./trynew > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 My comments follow: On 10/14/09, Krishen <jyotirved wrote: > > Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , AKKaul@@ > wrote: > > > Shri Prashant Pandey ji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > <It was really impossible to break the ice without showing the real > proof(though those are against Hindu astrology but facts are facts), > that Divisional charts are stand alone creativities and as much older as > Rashi charts.> > > > Regarding varga charts, we find their definition first of all in > Sphujidwaja's yavanajatakam. Pl. see chapter 1, shlokas 30 to 58 at This is wrong. Parasara Rsi defined them well before that. Yavana Jatakam is from 2-3rd century AD. > > http://www.astrojyoti.com/yavanajatakamainpage.htm > <http://www.astrojyoti.com/yavanajatakamainpage.htm> > > Thus It is not only planetary astronomy in the form of Surya Sidhanta by > Maya the mlechha, the first so called indigenous astronomical work to > calculate planets vis-a-vis Mesha etc. rashis, that was imported from > the Greeks, but even phalita jyotisha! > > This is evident from the following lines on top of the " Yavana Jataka " > by Yavanacharya, in the the above website, and I quote, " Page 1 > Sage Yavana, who belonged to the Alexander period, wrote Yavana Jataka. Wrong, he is from 500 years later, you have not done your homework properly. > He was an astrologer in the Greek court in India. Because of this he was > called Yavanacharya or Greek Guru, and hence a lot of western > astrologers claim that Indians learned astrology from the Greeks!! Again wrong. All Greeks were Yavanas but not all Yavanas were Greeks. You are not even repeating Western scholars properly because even they say Yavana Jataka is from 2-3rd century AD, NOT 4th century BC. > There > are a few areas where his interpretations of results are different. > Because of this it is an important classic. The teachings of > Yavanacharya were recorded by a king called Sphujidhwaja " . You have not read it correctly. This Yavanacarya was not a Greek, he was a Yavana. For example in Yavanajaka it is mentioned how the old Yavanas defined Vargotamma, when rasi and navamsa are same it is vargotamma. Well my dear friend the Greeks did not use NAVAMASA, even Pingree agrees to this. So these Yavanas were not Greeks. > > Interestingly, the above site has not been hosted by some " David > Pingree " but by > > Pandit S.P.Tata > H-5/3, 3rd Floor > Malviya Nagar > New Delhi - 110017. > > It is a moot point as to how Yavanacharya was an astrologer of the time > of Alexander and simultaneously " pontificated " in a Greek court in > India then! Greeks didn’t have astrology at that time. Get your history right, it was not introduced to Greek till 280 BC by Berrossus, more than 50 years after the death of Alexander. Basically you do not know what you are talking about so stop talking. >We must bear in mind that there were no Mesha etc. rashis > in Inida prior to the Surya Sidhanta in India, and that work is of a > later era i.e. around first century BCE/AD, whereas Alexander was > actually from Macedonia (Balkan Penninusual), who conquered Greek states > and then invaded India in around 326 BCE! > > If you go through this Yavanajataka, chapter 2 and other chapters, a > bit carefully and then compare the contents with that of Brihat Jatakam > by the greatest charlatan of the last two millenia, you will not see > much difference, especially in the description of Hora, Dreshkana etc. > > If you can get hold of the original Yavana Jtakam in Sanskrit (Vol I and > Vol -II), edited by David Pingree and published by Harvard University > Press in 1970, you will see it for yourself that the names and > definitions of the Rashis in that work in Greek are more or less the > same in Brihat Jatakam by Varahamihira, and Varahamihira was around > fifth century AD, a " successor " to Yavanacharya! These volumes are no longer in print last time I checked, I have copies. Pingree made many blunders. You just accept him because he is a sahib, and you are a sahib chamcha. > > I think that should put to rest the tug of war whether the divisional > charts and Mesha etc. rashis emanated from South India or North India! > They actually emanated from the Greeks! Again you do not know anything. The Greeks only used dodekotemoria, division by 12, equivalent to dvadasamsa. They didn’t use shodasavargas as you claim. Have you ever read Vettius Valens, or Firmicus Maternus, or Theodorus of Sidon? No, these were Hellenistic astrologers and they didn’t have shodasavargas only rasi chart and dodekotemoria. > > And as is is an open secret by now, we are experts in calling evey > technique in predictive gimmicks of Indian origin, only to make a fool > of ourselves! Be careful who you are calling a fool. We of course should not blindly follow what is written about jyotish I was forwarded a link to a very interesting article by a leading scholar in Vedic astrology (Shyamasundara Dasa) regarding the authenticity of the Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra. It was fascinating reading and gave a whole new twist to my understanding of Vedic astrology. For instance it gave sharp observations such as: Jaimini astrology was not mentioned in any classical text and didn’t appear on the scene until 16th century, how unequal house systems are recent innovations and that the method of remedial measure mentioned in Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra are basically bogus. This article is especially important because so many astrologers put their blind faith in BPHS without questioning if it is authentic or not. (Just as some are putting blind faith in David Pingree.) After reading it I was convinced that the modern BPHS is not authentic and should be handled with care. However, he showed that the core of Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra, things like shodasa vargas, shad balas etc, are genuine and very ancient and actually taught by Parasara Rsi. Anyway if you are interested in a deeper understanding of Vedic astrology then you may find this article as interesting as I did. It can be found here: http://shyamasundaradasa.com/jyotish/resources/articles/bphs.html With regards Agastya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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