Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 To All ; I dediced 3-4 months ago to keep away from all controversies and devote my time to creative works only. For three months, I was away from internet and from my town. But Mr AK Kaul is spreading lies that I am moderating his messages in my forum ; following is his message at http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved <<<Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he must have posted some mails in some vedic astrology forums which had banned me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had invited Shri Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open discussoin since the posts to that foruma re not moderated! However, he declined to do so under one pretext or the other! Now I have joined his forum viz. Vedic Astrologyforum of ! But there he is moderating my posts and allows only selective posts to appear! Thus instead of asking me questions, he is blocking my views on his own forum! Jyotishis are nothing but cowards, since they cannot face the truth that the " Vedic astrology is actually a fraud on the Vedas " .>>> I never moderated or banned anyone in my forum. Besides, I was away from my own forum for 3 months during which AKK posted his mails to my forum. I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails should not appear in astrological forums. But I did not ban him. AKK or anyone else is a fully unmoderated member in my forum, one can ask managers. It is deplorable that AKK has taken resort to blatant lies. As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic Astrology, and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss anything with liars. I will post my explanations concerning the topics raised by AKK at proper places (in my forthcoming textbook on ancient Indian astronomy, for instance). AKK has superficial knowledge of ancient astronomy and is deliberately distorting things, eg, cf his assertions about absence of ayanamsha and precession before munjala. -Vinay jha ===================== === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Dear Vinay jee, So nice to see you! Truly! Tell us, bhai, how you spent your last several weeks during which yu remained off internet? I think you have a lot more to share with and tell us from your experience of absence, wilfully brought upon yourself, than getting back at those who are not sincere and those that control them and the flow of their information! I missed you, if it means anything to you! RR_ , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > To All ; > > I dediced 3-4 months ago to keep away from all controversies and devote > my time to creative works only. For three months, I was away from > internet and from my town. But Mr AK Kaul is spreading lies that I am > moderating his messages in my forum ; following is his message at > http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved > > <<<Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he must > have posted some mails in some vedic astrology forums which had banned > me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had invited Shri > Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open discussoin > since the posts to that foruma re not moderated! However, he declined to > do so under one pretext or the other! > Now I have joined his forum viz. Vedic Astrologyforum of ! But > there he is moderating my posts and allows only selective posts to > appear! Thus instead of asking me questions, he is blocking my views on > his own forum! > Jyotishis are nothing but cowards, since they cannot face the truth that > the " Vedic astrology is actually a fraud on the Vedas " .>>> > > I never moderated or banned anyone in my forum. Besides, I was away from > my own forum for 3 months during which AKK posted his mails to my forum. > I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails should not > appear in astrological forums. But I did not ban him. AKK or anyone else > is a fully unmoderated member in my forum, one can ask managers. > > It is deplorable that AKK has taken resort to blatant lies. > > As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic > Astrology, and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss anything with > liars. I will post my explanations concerning the topics raised by AKK > at proper places (in my forthcoming textbook on ancient Indian > astronomy, for instance). AKK has superficial knowledge of ancient > astronomy and is deliberately distorting things, eg, cf his assertions > about absence of ayanamsha and precession before munjala. > > -Vinay jha > ===================== === > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Shri Vinay Jha-ji, Jai Shri Ram! <But Mr. AK Kaul is spreading lies that I am moderating his messages in my forum ; following is his message at http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved> I had posted some message to several forums including Vedic Astrologyforum owned by you. Whereas it appeared on all the other forums, it did not appear on your forum for several days. That gave me the reason to feel that you had started moderating my posts. Later I found that there was some problem with , since several times one and the same message would appear on all the other forums immediately but not on hinducalendar forum, owned by me! Similarly, a post on astronomy_activities_2009 (un-moderated forum) appeared after several days after it had appeared in other forums including —where posts are moderated!! It was a genuine misunderstanding and I am sorry if it has hurt your feelings. <As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic Astrology, and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss anything with liars.> I think it is the other way round! There is no predictive astrology in the Vedas since there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis nor Mangal, Shani etc. planets there----not at least in the sense they are being used by “Vedic astrologers”! As such, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology is repugnant to the letter and spirit of the Vedas! Those who claim that " Vedic astrology " is either a science or a shastra sanctioned by the Vedas will have to prove it! <Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he must have posted some mails in some Vedic-astrology forums which had banned me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had invited Shri Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open discussion since the posts to that forum are not moderated! However, he declined to do so under one pretext or the other!> It is a fact that I reply every technical query if it appears in any forum where I am a member. I was informed by several members that quite a few members of one or the other Vedic Astrology or indianastrology etc. forums were discussing my mails there, when actually I had been either banned by them or hounded out! In fact quite a few mails of mine were being discussed in this also before I joined it! As you are aware, I have kept hinducalendar forum an open forum so that the contents can be read by anybody even if he/she is not a member of that forum. However, astrology forums do not even have that type of an open mind! As such, I could not read your posts on those forums, much less answer them. Why I call those jyotish forums cowards is because those forums have about fifteen thousand members all told! All the members are either top-notch jyotisha-gurus or scholars extraordinary, besides being software experts, in one or the other way and they claim to be making correct predictions as well! With such a battery of “advocates” at their command, they could not answer the points raised by me and as such, they decided to “kill the messenger” instead of reading/answering the message! That is why I call them cowards. On the other hand, take the moderator/owner of this “” about which you had complained sometime back that your mails were blocked here because they were about a particular member! MY experience with this group has been entirely different! If the moderator/owner feels that the mail/post is not in good taste for a particular individual or jyotishis collectively, all he has asked to do is to modify the language---but he has not blocked any mail, in spite of being a jyotisha follower himself! < I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails should not appear in astrological forums.> If you point out such mails as are non-astrological that I have posted in your forum, I will certainly remove them myself. Regarding other jyotisha forums where posts are moderated, I think we should leave it to the moderators of those forums to decide as to what are jyotisha or non-jyotisha messages! Personally, I have never asked any moderator till date as to why he has not let my mail appear in the forum. < AKK has superficial knowledge of ancient astronomy and is deliberately distorting things, e.g., his assertions about absence of ayanamsha and precession before munjala.> There have been lengthy discussions in several forums including Hinducalendar and hinducivilization etc. (I have d from the latter) on the topic of ayanamsha in the sidhantas etc. prior to Munjala! I have raised several points there which have not been answered by anyone. Some of these are: 1. The ayanamsha shlokas in the Surya Sidhanta are interpolations of a much later date—post Munjala. 2. Those shlokas yield absolutely wrong results vis-à-vis precession! 3. Those shlokas yield absolutely contrary results to the ayanamsha being followed these days by jyotishis! 4. Those very ayanamsha interpolated shlokas have been lifted and interpolated as it is in Narada-Purana without any proper acknowledgement thus making even Narada Purana suspect of having more concoctions in the name of Narada-Muni than there being anything original from Narada-muni, the son of Brahma ji. 5. The Gita Press Hindi translator has interpreted those interpolated interpolations in such a manner as to convey the feeling that the Surya Sidhanta (and by implication Narada Purana too) had suggested Lahiri Ayanamsha! 6. Munjala had advised that the ayanamsha @ one arc-minute per year from Shaka 444 must be added to the Surya Sidhanta longitudes so as to make them “drik-tulya” i.e., Sayana. 7. That practice was followed for several centuries throughout India, but somehow Ganesha Daivajnya put the cart before the horse in sixteenth century AD, and advised, through his Grahalaghava, to subtract ayanamsha @ one arc-minute from Shaka 444 from the actual “drik-longitudes” (i.e. Sayana)---quite contrary to what Munjala had advised. 8. There are about a dozen ayanamshas being followed as on date! All of them cannot be correct though all of them may be wrong! These are besides the Surya Sidhanta ayanamsha, which is much different from any ayanamsha prevailing as on date! 9. Why is it taking “Vedic astrologers” thousands of years to decide as to which Ayanamsha, if any, is correct? 10. There being so many ayanamshas floating around in itself proves that nobody knows when it started and why actually and whether it should continue at all! 11. The net result of all these ayanamsha curses has been that we are celebrating all our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days, thanks to “Vedic astrology” and “Vedic astrologers”. Hope all your points have been clarified. Since you are a monk and a seeker of Truth and nothing but Truth, pl. do ponder on all these points raised by me with an unbiased mind! If you have any contrarian views, pl. do put them forward and I will definitely correct my views if they are proved wrong. In the end, as you know, satyameva jayate! Jai Shri Ram! A K Kaul , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > To All > > I decided 3-4 months ago to keep away from all controversies and devote > my time to creative works only. For three months, I was away from > internet and from my town. But Mr. AK Kaul is spreading lies that I am > moderating his messages in my forum ; following is his message at > http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved > > <<<Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he must > have posted some mails in some Vedic-astrology forums which had banned > me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had invited Shri > Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open discussion > since the posts to that forum re not moderated! However, he declined to > do so under one pretext or the other! > Now I have joined his forum viz. Vedic Astrologyforum of ! But > there he is moderating my posts and allows only selective posts to > appear! Thus instead of asking me questions, he is blocking my views on > his own forum! > Jyotishis are nothing but cowards, since they cannot face the truth that > the " Vedic astrology is actually a fraud on the Vedas " .>>> > > I never moderated or banned anyone in my forum. Besides, I was away from > my own forum for 3 months during which AKK posted his mails to my forum. > I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails should not > appear in astrological forums. But I did not ban him. AKK or anyone else > is a fully unmoderated member in my forum, one can ask managers. > > It is deplorable that AKK has taken resort to blatant lies. > > As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic > Astrology, and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss anything with > liars. I will post my explanations concerning the topics raised by AKK > at proper places (in my forthcoming textbook on ancient Indian > astronomy, for instance). AKK has superficial knowledge of ancient > astronomy and is deliberately distorting things, eg, cf his assertions > about absence of ayanamsha and precession before munjala. > > -Vinay jha > ===================== === > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Vedic AstrologyForum , " Krishen " <a_krishen wrote: Shri Vinay Jha ji, Jai Shri Ram! I am not even in the least surprised to see your answer to my post especially the comments, " Hence, you must be AT LEAST a senior professor to profess your views. OR, you must get some recognized university teaching Jyotishan your side. I am Trustee and secretary of seven Sanskrit colleges and other institutions, and I know the worth of a degree of Shaastri " It just shows you are not interested in a smooth discussoin at all since it means that anyone who is not a " senior professor " cannot discuss anything! <Hence, Shaastri or Acharya or even PhD is worthless, you must be a reputed PROFESSOR IN THIS FIELD to profess your own views.> The logo on you forum says, " Testing traditional methods of astrology is one of our principal tasks. Comparison of modern astronomy with traditional systems such as Suryasiddhanta for getting best outcomes for the purposes of predictive astrology is one of out main goals. Debates may be allowed, but only in a friendly manner and without personal attacks. " You should have put a condition there that only " university professors " can discuss things in this forum! < I tested your credentials and proficiency in this field while you were wrongly computing Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha 10 months ago in AIA forum. > I have left that forum about two years back! It is thus clear that you have discussed that issue with somebody else! In any case, why can't you post those mails again so that we could discuss as to what has gone wrong and where in the Surya Sidhanta Ayanamsha shlokas. <Should I show how many ABUSIVE remarks have you posted for Vedic Astrology and vedic asgtrologers in various fora ??> If anyone claims that he/she practises Vedic astrology, he/she must be able to prove that there are Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas, and there are mehtodologies of calculating planetary longitudes of Mangal, Shani etc. vis-a-vis those very " Vedic rashis " in the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. He/she must also be able to prove that the hundreds of Ayanamshas being used are all Vedic, and so are the hundreds of Dasha-bhuktis etc. He/she must be able to clearly establish the link between the Vedic nakshatras like Krittika, Mrigashira etc. vis-a-vis Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis by quoting, with exact references and translating the Vedic mantras that talk that way. Then he/she has also to link the vargas, hundreds of them, to the Rashis as per the Vedic mantras. In short, if someone wants to estblish that the predictive gimmicks he/she follows are Vedic, he/she must give a clear proof that is beyond all the reasonable doubts! Since we do not find any Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas and since there are no such " twelve equal division " as per modern astronomy either, nor does any zodiac exist in reality---it is just an imaginary " circle of animals " ---how do you expect sensible Hindus to belive that predictive gimmicks followed by some jyotishis on the basis of non-existent rashis and inanimate planets etc. are all creations of the real Vamadeva and Vishvamitra and Atri and Shaunaka etc. Rishis? Do you mean to say that we must believe blindly in the statements of some jyotishis that our Vedic seers were not aware of the fact that the so called rashichakra is a phantasmagoria, so are the Mesha, Vrisha etc. animals supposed to be crawling on the same and the Mangal, Shani etc. planets that are supposed to be governing your and my fate are nothing but inanimate wandering bodies? Do you mean to say that the Vedic seers did not have that much of knowledge either to sift grain from the chaff and they also believed that non-existent Mesha, Vrisha etc. animals are holding us in their thraldom? If something is non-existent as per modern astronomy, how and why do you expect our Vedic Seers to have succumbed to the temptation of making correct predictoins from those very non-existent " aninmals " of a non-existent zodiac? Are you doing justice to the Vedic seers by ascribing such ignorance to them? What type of a Vedic scholar, and a Professor, to boot, are you? < Sir, we can forget the past and discuss things afresh, provided abusive language is avoided and opinions are based on hard facts and evidences , which seems to be next to impossible as far as your past behaviour suggests. > My dear Vinay Jha ji, the hard facts have been kept before you several times! Why can't you just understand the anguish that I am feeling by the sad fact that scholars like you are going all out to defend some predictive gimmicks in the name of Vedic astrology, when there is not even an iota of evidence in any of the Vedas or shastras that the Vedic seers ever believed in having their future deciphered and that also through non-existent rashi-animals, via inanimate wandering bodies, and that also through esluive dasha-bhuktis and pratyantara and what not? What is there to be discussed about such a " naked truth " that the Hindus are being taken for a ride in the name of Vedic astrology? < I am really not interested in any discussion with you, because you are really not interested in checking the proofs of accuracy of Vedic Astrology. > You are really talking in circles! You want me to check the proofs of accura y of " Vedic astrology " when in the very first place, you are unable to establish that there are any predictive gimmicks in any of the Vedas! <Siddhanta-shiromani quoted some lost version of Suryasiddhanta and used Munjala's formula TOGETHER WITH this lost formula of Suryasiddhanta.> I wonder if you have read the Laghumanasa of Munjala yourself! Do you know what he has advised about calculating the Ayanamsha and how it is to be adjusted? Yes, the Sidhanta Shiromani has talked about Munjala's ayanamsha and since you have not read Munjala in the first place, how can you understand as to what Bhaskara-II wanted to say? Dear Vinay Jahaji, since you are a monk, you can do a lot of good to Hindu society as a whole. And the maximum good you can do is by making the common man aware that there are no predictive gimmicks in the Vedas, and as such, there canot be any Vedic astrology! That way you can also make the entire Hindu communituy celebrate all the festivals on correct days, which are being celebrated on wrong days, just thanks o " Vedic astrology " and " Vedic astrologers " Jai Shri Ram. A K Kaul Vedic AstrologyForum , " VJha " vj.jyotish@ wrote: > > Kaul Ji, > > The certificates you are citing are meaningless : you are challenging an > entire discipline which is being taught in all recognized Sanskrit > universities. Hence, you must be AT LEAST a senior professor to > profess your views. OR, you must get some recognized university teaching > Jyotishan your side. I am Trustee and secretary of seven Sanskrit > colleges and other institutions, and I know the worth of a degree of > Shaastri : it is being obtaind for less than a song in most of the > colleges. I am unable to prevent malpractices even in colleges which > have included me in board of trustees, although I am fighting against > the corrupt system. Hence, Shaastri or Acharya or even PhD is > worthless, you must be a reputed PROFESSOR IN THIS FIELD to profess > your own views. > > I tested your credentials and proficiency in this field while you were > wrongly computing Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha 10 months ago in AIA > forum. I was also sorry for your blatant haughtiness towards RN > Iyengar Ji, whom I do not know. Should I show how many ABUSIVE remarks > have you posted for Vedic Astrology and vedic asgtrologers in various > fora ?? > > Sir, we can forget the past and discuss things afresh, provided abusive > language is avoided and opinions are based on hard facts and evidences , > which seems to be next to impossible as far as your past behaviour > suggests. Your supporter Prashant Pandey started an abusive attack on me > just because he did not like my answers to your attacks on Vedic > Astrology. Abuses start when sound arguments end. > > I am really not interested in any discussion with you, because you are > really not interested in checking the proofs of accuracy of Vedic > Astrology. But if you meet me in any conference, we can discuss things > in private or publicly. > > I am sorry for your utter disregard for factual evidences put forth by > me concerning knowledge of modern concept of precession in ancient > India, and the difference between precession and ayanamsha. It is a very > difficult topic because ancients did not write in strightforward manner. > Please re-read the verses of Siddhanta-shiromani and computations based > on it. Siddhanta-shiromani quoted some lost version of Suryasiddhanta > and used Munjala's formula TOGETHER WITH this lost formula of > Suryasiddhanta. If commentators neglected these verses, it is their > fault, and not of ancients. Why you are so incapable of learning new > things ?? Old age problem ?? I am not insulting you : you are > insulting Truth by distorting facts. > > If you want real debate, Varanasi Vidvat Parishad can be requested to > organize such a debate in which heads of departments of Jyotisha from > Benaras Hindu University, Sampoornanand Sanskrit University, and other > such universities may be invited. A better alternative is to wait for a > conference in which these scholars will be already present. > > Experts of this field avoid internet fora due to two reasons : they are > busy, and they are not deft in handling computers or internet. Hence, > conference is the best method. I will like to meet you in any > astrologicaql conference. On 20 Dec 2009, a conference is being held at > Patna, organized by scholars of Kashi and their friends in Patna, none > of whom I have ever met. They have invited me as a special guest. If > you attend this conference, I will be glad to discuss things with you. > There are things which can be quickly shown face to face but need > considerable time over internet. You do not know what you are doing by > attacking the most scientific and most accurate branch of human > knowledge : Vedic Jyotisha. I can show you ample proofs face to face. I > had invited Prashant Pandey at International Astrological Conference at > Allahabad (28 Feb-Mar 1, 2009), but he did not turn up. I have never > organized any astro conference, hence I cannot send invitation letters > on behalf of the organizers. > > -Vinay Jha > ==================== ======= > Vedic AstrologyForum , " Krishen " a_krishen@ > wrote: > > > > > > Shri Vinay Jha ji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > <If you want any real discussion, you must chose a proper forum : a > > panel of university experts instead of an internet forum.> > > It would really be a pleasure for me if you could co-opt a panel of > > unversity experts in your own forum or some other forum so that the > > issues could be discussed threadbare. > > I hope you will appreciate that it is otherwise difficult to call all > > the experts in various fields at one place so that you could have a > > debate with me! > > < I have to subsist on juices and groundnuts for months due to > workload> > > I really appreciate your tapasya and hard work and have great regards > > for your tapasya and also scholarship. > > <I have neither any time nor any willingness to discuss anything with > > you.> > > You have created a forum named " vediastrololgyforum " , and anybody can > > post any relevant mail on the same. It is not necessary for anybody, > > including the owner of the forum, to reply any of the mails. If you > > have neither willingness nor time to discuss anything with me, fine. > > You do not have to answer any of my mails. > > < Can you have some mercy on me ?> > > Being a monk, you are a venerable person for me. As such, pl do not > > make such requests. > > < I have no time for you, unless you chose a forum of experts or a > court > > of law.> > > Regarding forum of expers, I have given you a suggestion already. > > Regarding a court of law, I am not sure that that is a proper " forum " > > who can arbitrate on the discussion/debate regarding the subtle > > astronomical points in the sidhantas etc. Besides, that is also a > > highly time consuming process. > > <I refuse to waste my time with persons like you : you may be a great > > person,> > > I am a learner and a student and will remain so throughout my life. > > < but you lack credentials and degrees from reputed universities in > > these topics. > > > This is really a surprsing statement from a scholar like you! I do > not > > know what you mean by " you lack credentials and degrees from reputed > > universities " . I have cleared Shastri examinatioin in 1964 from J & K > > University! Of course, I do not wear that degree round my neck like a > > milstone by calling myself " Shastri A K Kaul " ! > > I have cleared B.Sc. with maths in 1963. I have also cleared M.A. in > > English. I have Honours in Hindi language i.e. Prabhakar! > > I do not know what other degrees you would like me to have for > enetering > > into a discussion about the so called Vedic astrology! > > <I do not want to ban or insult you, unless and until I am compelled> > > As far as I am concerned, I will never try to insult you since you are > a > > monk, even if I do not agree with your views. > > Whether or not you ban me, it is upto you, since I know it already > that > > most of the " Vedic asterologers " are cowards but being a monk, I do > not > > expect you to be one. > > < With Regards!!!> > > With best regards to you as a monk, > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > Vedic AstrologyForum , " VJha " vj.jyotish@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Shri Kaul ji, > > > > > > If you want any real discussion, you must chose a proper forum : a > > panel > > > of university experts instead of an internet forum. > > > > > > I have to subsist on juices and groundnuts for months due to > workload, > > I > > > have neither any time nor any willingness to discuss anything with > > you. > > > Can you have some mercy on me ? I have no time for you, unless you > > chose > > > a forum of experts or a court of law. > > > > > > I refuse to waste my time with persons like you : you may be a great > > > person, but you lack credentials and degrees from reputed > universities > > > in these topics. I do not want to ban or insult you, unless and > until > > I > > > am compelled. Do you understand??? > > > > > > With Regards!!! > > > > > > -VJ > > > ==================== === > > > > > > > > > Vedic AstrologyForum , " jyotirved " a_krishen@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Shri Vinay Jha-ji, > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > <But Mr. AK Kaul is spreading lies that I am moderating his > > messages > > > in my > > > > forum ; following is his message at > http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had posted some message to several forums including > > > Vedic Astrologyforum > > > > owned by you. Whereas it appeared on all the other forums, it did > > not > > > > appear on your forum for several days. That gave me the reason to > > > feel that > > > > you had started moderating my posts. Later I found that there was > > > some > > > > problem with , since several times one and the same message > > would > > > > appear on all the other forums immediately but not on > hinducalendar > > > forum, > > > > owned by me! Similarly, a post on astronomy_activities_2009 > > > (un-moderated > > > > forum) appeared after several days after it had appeared in other > > > forums > > > > including —where posts are moderated!! > > > > > > > > It was a genuine misunderstanding and I am sorry if it has hurt > your > > > > feelings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic > > > Astrology, > > > > and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss anything with > liars.> > > > > > > > > I think it is the other way round! There is no predictive > astrology > > > in the > > > > Vedas since there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis nor > Mangal, > > > Shani > > > > etc. planets there----not at least in the sense they are being > used > > by > > > > " Vedic astrologers " ! As such, to call any predictive gimmicks > > > as Vedic > > > > astrology is repugnant to the letter and spirit of the Vedas! > Those > > > who > > > > claim that " Vedic astrology " is either a science or a shastra > > > sanctioned by > > > > the Vedas will have to prove it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he must > > > have > > > > posted some mails in some Vedic-astrology forums which had banned > > > > > > > > me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had > invited > > > Shri > > > > Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open > discussion > > > since > > > > the posts to that forum are not moderated! However, he declined to > > do > > > so > > > > under one pretext or the other!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a fact that I reply every technical query if it appears in > any > > > forum > > > > where I am a member. I was informed by several members that quite > a > > > few > > > > members of one or the other Vedic Astrology or indianastrology etc. > > > forums > > > > were discussing my mails there, when actually I had been either > > banned > > > by > > > > them or hounded out! In fact quite a few mails of mine were being > > > discussed > > > > in this also before I joined it! As you are aware, I > > > have kept > > > > hinducalendar forum an open forum so that the contents can be read > > by > > > > anybody even if he/she is not a member of that forum. However, > > > astrology > > > > forums do not even have that type of an open mind! As such, I > could > > > not > > > > read your posts on those forums, much less answer them. > > > > > > > > Why I call those jyotish forums cowards is because those forums > > have > > > about > > > > fifteen thousand members all told! All the members are either > > > top-notch > > > > jyotisha-gurus or scholars extraordinary, besides being software > > > experts, > > > > in one or the other way and they claim to be making correct > > > predictions as > > > > well! > > > > > > > > With such a battery of " advocates " at their command, they > > > could not answer > > > > the points raised by me and as such, they decided to " kill the > > > messenger " > > > > instead of reading/answering the message! That is why I call them > > > cowards. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, take the moderator/owner of this > > > " " about > > > > which you had complained sometime back that your mails were > blocked > > > here > > > > because they were about a particular member! MY experience with > > this > > > group > > > > has been entirely different! If the moderator/owner feels that > the > > > > mail/post is not in good taste for a particular individual or > > > jyotishis > > > > collectively, all he has asked to do is to modify the > language---but > > > he has > > > > not blocked any mail, in spite of being a jyotisha follower > > himself! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails should > > not > > > appear > > > > in astrological forums.> > > > > > > > > If you point out such mails as are non-astrological that I have > > posted > > > in > > > > your forum, I will certainly remove them myself. > > > > > > > > Regarding other jyotisha forums where posts are moderated, I > think > > we > > > > should leave it to the moderators of those forums to decide as to > > what > > > are > > > > jyotisha or non-jyotisha messages! Personally, I have never asked > > any > > > > moderator till date as to why he has not let my mail appear in the > > > forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < AKK has superficial knowledge of ancient astronomy and is > > > deliberately > > > > distorting things, e.g., his assertions about absence of > ayanamsha > > > and > > > > precession before munjala.> > > > > > > > > There have been lengthy discussions in several forums including > > > > Hinducalendar and hinducivilization etc. (I have d from > > the > > > > latter) on the topic of ayanamsha in the sidhantas etc. prior to > > > Munjala! > > > > I have raised several points there which have not been answered by > > > anyone. > > > > Some of these are: > > > > > > > > 1. The ayanamsha shlokas in the Surya Sidhanta are > > > interpolations of > > > > a much later date—post Munjala. > > > > > > > > 2. Those shlokas yield absolutely wrong results vis-à-vis > > > precession! > > > > > > > > 3. Those shlokas yield absolutely contrary results to the > > > ayanamsha > > > > being followed these days by jyotishis! > > > > > > > > 4. Those very ayanamsha interpolated shlokas have been > lifted > > > and > > > > interpolated as it is in Narada-Purana without any proper > > > acknowledgement > > > > thus making even Narada Purana suspect of having more concoctions > in > > > the > > > > name of Narada-Muni than there being anything original from > > > Narada-muni, the > > > > son of Brahma ji. > > > > > > > > 5. The Gita Press Hindi translator has interpreted those > > > interpolated > > > > interpolations in such a manner as to convey the feeling that the > > > Surya > > > > Sidhanta (and by implication Narada Purana too) had suggested > Lahiri > > > > Ayanamsha! > > > > > > > > 6. Munjala had advised that the ayanamsha @ one arc-minute > per > > > year > > > > from Shaka 444 must be added to the Surya Sidhanta longitudes so > as > > to > > > make > > > > them " drik-tulya " i.e., Sayana. > > > > > > > > 7. That practice was followed for several centuries > throughout > > > India, > > > > but somehow Ganesha Daivajnya put the cart before the horse in > > > sixteenth > > > > century AD, and advised, through his Grahalaghava, to subtract > > > ayanamsha @ > > > > one arc-minute from Shaka 444 from the actual > > > " drik-longitudes " (i.e. > > > > Sayana)---quite contrary to what Munjala had advised. > > > > > > > > 8. There are about a dozen ayanamshas being followed as on > > date! > > > All > > > > of them cannot be correct though all of them may be wrong! These > > are > > > > besides the Surya Sidhanta ayanamsha, which is much different from > > any > > > > ayanamsha prevailing as on date! > > > > > > > > 9. Why is it taking " Vedic astrologers " thousands of > > > years to decide > > > > as to which Ayanamsha, if any, is correct? > > > > > > > > 10. There being so many ayanamshas floating around in itself > > proves > > > that > > > > nobody knows when it started and why actually and whether it > should > > > continue > > > > at all! > > > > > > > > 11. The net result of all these ayanamsha curses has been that > we > > > are > > > > celebrating all our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days, thanks > to > > > " Vedic > > > > astrology " and " Vedic astrologers " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope all your points have been clarified. Since you are a monk > and > > a > > > > seeker of Truth and nothing but Truth, pl. do ponder on all these > > > points > > > > raised by me with an unbiased mind! If you have any contrarian > > views, > > > pl. > > > > do put them forward and I will definitely correct my views if they > > are > > > > proved wrong. > > > > > > > > In the end, as you know, satyameva jayate! > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To All > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I decided 3-4 months ago to keep away from all controversies and > > > devote > > > > > > > > > my time to creative works only. For three months, I was away > from > > > > > > > > > internet and from my town. But Mr. AK Kaul is spreading lies > > that > > > I am > > > > > > > > > moderating his messages in my forum ; following is his message > at > > > > > > > > > http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<<Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he > > must > > > > > > > > > have posted some mails in some Vedic-astrology forums which had > > > banned > > > > > > > > > me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had > > invited > > > Shri > > > > > > > > > Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open > > discussion > > > > > > > > > since the posts to that forum re not moderated! However, he > > declined > > > to > > > > > > > > > do so under one pretext or the other! > > > > > > > > > Now I have joined his forum viz. Vedic Astrologyforum of > > ! > > > But > > > > > > > > > there he is moderating my posts and allows only selective posts > to > > > > > > > > > appear! Thus instead of asking me questions, he is blocking my > > views > > > on > > > > > > > > > his own forum! > > > > > > > > > Jyotishis are nothing but cowards, since they cannot face the > > truth > > > that > > > > > > > > > the " Vedic astrology is actually a fraud on the Vedas " .>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never moderated or banned anyone in my forum. Besides, I was > > away > > > from > > > > > > > > > my own forum for 3 months during which AKK posted his mails to > my > > > forum. > > > > > > > > > I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails should > > not > > > > > > > > > appear in astrological forums. But I did not ban him. AKK or > > anyone > > > else > > > > > > > > > is a fully unmoderated member in my forum, one can ask > > > managers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is deplorable that AKK has taken resort to blatant lies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic > > > > > > > > > Astrology, and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss > anything > > > with > > > > > > > > > liars. I will post my explanations concerning the topics raised > by > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > at proper places (in my forthcoming textbook on ancient Indian > > > > > > > > > astronomy, for instance). AKK has superficial knowledge of > ancient > > > > > > > > > astronomy and is deliberately distorting things, eg, cf his > > > assertions > > > > > > > > > about absence of ayanamsha and precession before munjala. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Vinay jha > > > > > > > > > ===================== === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 HinduCalendar , " Krishen " <jyotirved wrote: Shri A. Sharma ji, Jai Shri Ram! One does not do shastrartha in a conference! Besides, any conference by jyotishis is usually of jyotishis and for jyotishis! I have had bitter experiences of attending such conferences of jyotishis, since the points of discussion there are not astronomy or calendar reform, but honing the tools of prediction and blowing their own trumpets as to who made how many correct predictions on the basis of what ayanamsha or dasha-bhukti! Secondly, I do not have anything to sort out with Shri Vinay Jha personally because we have no personal grievances against one another. He is a well read scholar who interprets things his own way and who even in the twenty-first century makes correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta based software. That sidhanta is the most inaccurate astronomical work as per modern astronomy! How can a conference sort it out as to how Shri Jha is making correct predictions from the same? It is as such, much better that experts of different disciplines join the internet forums to sift grain from the chaf. As far as I can understand personally, all the real astronomers are already aware of the mess known as Vedic astrology and how it has derailed the Vedic calendar. This you can judge from various astronomical forums. They, however, do not want to take up cudgels against the same, for reasons not difficult to discern! Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. Jai Shri Ram A K Kaul HinduCalendar , A Sharma <asharmanz@> wrote: > > AKKji, > > CC: Vinay Jhaji. > > AKKji, Vinay Jhaji has invited you to the 20 Dec 2009conference in Patna. > > Please attend and sort out whatever can be sorted out between Vinay Jhaji and yourself. > > ASharma. > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Shri Vinay Jha ji, Jai Shri Ram! Thank you for your response. <Thus, instead of testing and refuting the predictions based on this or that method, you are rejecting me and my lifelong work without any trial or debate, and are also rejecting the entire tradition of Jyotisha. Jyotishis, therefore, are fully justified in rejecting you.> You are perhaps the only " modern Vedic astrologer " who is making correct predictions from the longitudes of the Surya Sidhanta! As you are aware, it does not agree with any other sidhanta nor does it tally at all with the planetary longitudes as per modern astronomy---whether sayana or nirayana! Still you claim to be making correct predictions from the same! Excepting you, all the other astronomers are using either Lahiri or Raman or even zero or some other ayanamsha and that also vis-a-vis modern astronomy! Almost all of them are satisfied with the results regarding making correct predictions. That is at least what they claim! It is obvious that either you are wrong in your assessments on the bases of the data from the Surya Sidhanta or all the remaining jyotishis are wrong! Nopth of you cannot be correct simultaneously, though both of you i.e. Surya sidhanta walllas and modern astronomy-walas can be wrong simultaneously! Ironically, all of you call yourselves Vedic astrologers! It is thus an impossible task to decide as to who is really a Vedic astrologer amongst you, if at all there is any! As such, I do not understand as to what you mean when you say, " ..are also rejecting the entire tradition of jyotisha " ? If your tradition which is supposed to be based on the Surya Sidhanta is correct and that is the real tradition, it is not being rejected by me but by the entire community of " Vedic astrologers " ----billions and billions of them---are rejecting it! And if their Lahiri or Ramana etc. Rashichakras are correct, you are rejecting theirr tradition, obviously! You cannot have the cake and eat it as well. Regarding my trying your method, I have told you several times that I had downloaded Kundalee software from your website but it does not work either on WINXP or WINME---least of all VISTA. It always says, " phalit.exe file is corrupt " or some other file is corrupt. Such a problem I am facing only with your software, whereas JHORA and other software are working very fine on my system! I downloaded the latest version of Kundalee software also but that too has a similar problem! You must be aware that whether it is JHORA or Astrodienst or Future Point or Parashara's Light or any other software, none has the calculations of the Surya Sidhanta! Yours is the only one, but that does not work at all! Still you want that I should give a trial to your software! < Your above statement portrays me as an obscurantist and anachronistic fool. You project yourself as a man of scientific temperament. ..Those who have read my biodata know that I have scientific works recognized by world's recognized universities, and I excelled in science in my student days as well.> Your imagination is running riot! You are presuming things like an " obscurantist and anachronistic fool " etc. which were never intended by me. You are unnecessarily entering into a personal slanging match! Regarding your works being recognized by world's universities, to the best of my knowledge, the Surya Sidhanta is not recognized by any university except for BHU etc. And those universities have " recognized " the current version of that work, which in itself is quite wrong according to you! That itself means that the BHU etc. have recognized a wrong work! < But whom are you trying to cheat by making such statements ? ...All your work consists of abuses against Vedic Jyotisha.> In fact, by claiming that correct predictions can be made only as per the longitudes etc. from the Surya Sidhanta software that you have prepared, it is you who is claiming to be the only " real Vedic astrologer " as against all the others who are thus fake according to you, since they are using any and every program except the one based on the Surya Sidhanhta! However, unless and until you, of any other " Vedic astrologer " , for that matter, are able to prove that the Vedas talk of nothing but Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, which are scientifically non-existent, and also ascribe lordships of imaginary " animals of that imaginary zodiac " to inanimate wandering bodies like Mangal, Shani etc., you do not have any right to call predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " ! Similarly, unless and until you also prove that the Vedas also talk of elusive Dasha-bhuktis and pratyantaras---hundreds of them like Vimsxhotari, Ashtotari, Yogini, Kalachakra etc. etc.--- and Kemadruma and hundreds of other Greek yogas etc., besides of course, such terms as Panaphara, Apoklima, Kendra etc. etc. you cannot call those predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " ! Same is the case about " other Vedic astrologers " ---the only difference being that except for Surya sidhanta longitudes, everything else remain the same in their case i.e. they also call predictive gimmicks based on non-existent Mesha etc. rashis etc. etc. Vedic astrology! It is as such, " Vedic astrologers " who are cheating the public, and not me, since all I am asking the " Vedic astrologers " to do is to substantiate their claims, which they are unable to do! Do you, as such, realize at to what an injustice you are doing to the Vedas and the Vedic seers when you try to thrust down our throat the " proclamation " that we must believe in your words that the real Vamadeva and Vishwamitra etc. Rishis believed in the non-sense called Kalasarpa yoga and also patri melapak etc. etc. Is this what you are teaching the Hindus as a monk? <I have already posted enough evidences in favour of veracity of Jyotisha.. .. because you do not want to see proofs of Vedic Jyotisha, which lies in its predictive power..> No! You have not. You have yet to quote even a single mantra from the Vedas that talks of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. rashis in that sequence and advises that we must wager bets on the basis of those very non-existent " twelve animals " of the " circle of animals " . You have yet to quote even a single mantra or shloka from any Veda or Purana that has advised us to contact some soothsayer for ascertaining as to what amount we will gain or lose in stock-market by investing in which share! You have yet to give any references to any mantras where the Vedic seers married only after patri-melapak. So, how do you claim that you have already " posted evidence " ? My dear Vinay Jha ji! Let me tell you something frankly. If at all you are able to forecast something uncannily accurately, it may not be because of the Surya Sidhanta being a real gem of an astronomical or astrological work, but only because you are a monk and you have some divine powers. My grandpa used to make astoundingly correct predictions from horoscopes prepared from Grahalaghava panchangas. And as you know, Grahalghava is as accurate or inaccurate as the Surya Sidhanta is---that is both of them are highly inaccurate.! <.Veda and Jyotisha cannot be mastered by mere reading. It is spiritual knowledge, gathered by mean of tapasya and through guru.> Yes, you are right! Predictive gimmicks are not Vedic astrology and as such, do not need any guru at all, since a real guru does not teach something that is against the shastras. As you are aware, all the shastras are against fatalism whereas horoscope reading is nothing but fatalism! About tapasya, there is a saying, " Tapasa prapyete rajyam, rajyat naraka eva chai " As you are a Sanskrit scholar, you must be knowing its meaning also, but let me explain it for those who do not understand Sanskrit. The meaning is, " One gets kingship through tapasya and then Hell through kingship " ! Anybody making successful predictions by dint of tapasya is bartering real diamonds with glittering pieces of glass! It is not necessarily for pecuniary gains but may be just the satisfaction of ego that Mr. xxxx has " vak-sidhi " and is making correct predictions! May be that Mr.x is not himself aware of that barter! It is kaliyuga, as you know, and Kaliyuga does not tolerate anyone performing real tapasya! < You never abuse Christian or Islamic astrology. It is not difficult to discover your real religion which you hid beneath a superficial lip-service to Vedas.> I have explained it several times in several forums that I am neither a cop nor a social reformist! There are physiognomists and palmists and numerologists and so on. I do not toiuch them with a barge pole. There are also innumerable types of cheats and thugs in India, but they do not impinge either directly or indirectly on the format/gamut of Vedic/Pauranic calendar. It is only " Vedic astrology " that compels us to celebrate all the festivals and muhurtas on wrong days because it is " Vedic astrologers " who preside over all the conferences of Panchanga standardization-and we are always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating " almighty " Lahiri festivals instead of the real Vedic festivals! And somebody has to take up cudgels against that injustice! Being a very unpleasant and thankless task, nobody wants to annoy the powerful lobby of " Vedic astrologers " . But that does not mean that the ones not raising their voices against such tyranny are not cowards! It is common knowledge by now that there are no Mesha etc. rashis in the Vedas. As such, to talk of any Makara or Kmbha snakrnati ---whether so called Sayana or so called nirayana---etc. being Vedic is taking the Hindu society for a ride. There is thus no question of Vedic calendar being either so called sayana or so called nirayana-since that term is applicable only to Mesha etc. rashis! When we come to the Puranas and sidhantas, we find that they talk of nothing but a so called sayana rashichakra. I am posting separately a document BVB6.doc on your forum. Kindly do take some time out and go through the same. You will see that all the Puranas and sidhantas are talking of nothing but a so called Sayana Rashichakra for all our festivals and muhurtas. It therefore means that we are celebrating our festivals neither as per the Vedas nor as per Puranas not even modern astronomy, so much so that not even Primary School level geography, which talks of Winter Solstice (Uttarayana) and Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two equinoxes (Vasanta sampat and hemanta sampat). It is all because of " Vedic astrology " and " Vedic astrologers " . Since you are a monk and a scholar, I beseech you in all earnest to set an example by celebrating all the festivals on correct days. You will have to eliminate Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashish from your vocabulary for this purpose. And I am sure after pondering on all the facts kept before you, you will definitely do that! The earlier you do so the better for the entire Hindu community. Shubhasya sheegram. Satyam eva jayate, nanritam. Jai Shri Ram. A K Kaul ======================================= Vedic AstrologyForum , " VJha " <vj.jyotish wrote: > Fwd: Re: Abusers of Astrology : AK Kaul & c Mr Kaul, Your following remark is sufficient for a ban on you in all astrological fora, including this one : " (Vinay Jha) who even in the twenty-first century makes correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta based software. That sidhanta is the most inaccurate astronomical work as per modern astronomy! How can a conference sort it out as to how Shri Jha is making correct predictions from the same? " Thus, instead of testing and refuting the predictions based on this or that method, you are rejecting me and my lifelong or work without any trial or debate, and are also rejecting the entire tradition of Jyotisha. Jyotishis, therefore, are fully justified in rejecting you. Your above statement portrays me as an obscurantist and anachronistist fool. You project yourself as a man of scientific temperament. But whom are you trying to cheat by making such statements ? Those who have read by biodate know that I have scientific works recognized by world's recognized universities, and I excelled in science in my studen days as well. You have shown no proof of your contribution to any field of human knowledge. All your work consists of abuses against Vedic Jyotisha. Yet I am not banning you now. Shaastraarthas were always held in conferences, but you want your own opinions. Keep them, because you do not want to see proofs of Vedic Jyotisha, which lies in its predictive power. Your refusal to see proofs ends our dialogue here. Henceforth, if you flood this forum with too much of your anti-astrological nonsense, you will be instantly banned. I have already posted enough evidences in favour of veracity of Jyotisha, but you never discuss pros and cons of such things. You never abuse Christian or Islamic astrology. It is not difficult to discover your real religion which you hide beneath a superficial lip-service to Vedas. Veda and Jyotisha cannot be mastered by mere reading. It is spiritual knowledge, gathered by means of tapasya and through guru. A dishonest soul is unfit for such things. -VJ ==================== ==== Vedic AstrologyForum <Vedic AstrologyForum/post?postID=vGNkfeB7F9H3V XePz2Jz-RHXeFfJt44zmhA5dNGD9rqwDPBnTfry_hzRGo00Ufk8O0X_xX9qtMEV7CFbOFDh1ksZl JaVFq4FQqY> , " Krishen " <a_krishen wrote: > > HinduCalendar <Vedic AstrologyForum/post?postID=vxj0CKOk7l8Wc bthse1kK8sjbEzrwh7-t2wdLtk3uUCKTZyLG72J4JKqrsrnjGBC0G_9AuiP-9Lm4nGYiDOBIO-B1 HFn> , " Krishen " jyotirved@ wrote: > > Shri A. Sharma ji, > Jai Shri Ram! > > One does not do shastrartha in a conference! > Besides, any conference by jyotishis is usually of jyotishis and for jyotishis! I have had bitter experiences of attending such conferences of jyotishis, since the points of discussion there are not astronomy or calendar reform, but honing the tools of prediction and blowing their own trumpets as to who made how many correct predictions on the basis of what ayanamsha or dasha-bhukti! > Secondly, I do not have anything to sort out with Shri Vinay Jha personally because we have no personal grievances against one another. He is a well read scholar who interprets things his own way and who even in the twenty-first century makes correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta based software. That sidhanta is the most inaccurate astronomical work as per modern astronomy! How can a conference sort it out as to how Shri Jha is making correct predictions from the same? > It is as such, much better that experts of different disciplines join the internet forums to sift grain from the chaf. As far as I can understand personally, all the real astronomers are already aware of the mess known as Vedic astrology and how it has derailed the Vedic calendar. This you can judge from various astronomical forums. They, however, do not want to take up cudgels against the same, for reasons not difficult to discern! > Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. > Jai Shri Ram > A K Kaul > > > HinduCalendar <Vedic AstrologyForum/post?postID=vxj0CKOk7l8Wc bthse1kK8sjbEzrwh7-t2wdLtk3uUCKTZyLG72J4JKqrsrnjGBC0G_9AuiP-9Lm4nGYiDOBIO-B1 HFn> , A Sharma <asharmanz@> wrote: > > > > AKKji, > > > > CC: Vinay Jhaji. > > > > AKKji, Vinay Jhaji has invited you to the 20 Dec 2009conference in Patna. > > > > Please attend and sort out whatever can be sorted out between Vinay Jhaji and yourself. > > > > ASharma. > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Shri Kaul Ji, I expected this type of response from you. Your statements show the " depth " and quality of your knowledge : <<<You are perhaps the only " modern Vedic astrologer " who is making correct predictions from the longitudes of the Surya Sidhanta>>> You wrongly presume that internet is the whole world. Suryasiddhanta is the backbone of Jyotishacharya syllabus in all universities where Jyotisha is taught, esp in Ganita-Jyotisha. Suryasiddhanta is still the main basis of a vast majority of panchangas in India. Suryasiddhanta was never refuted by any ancient astrologer/astronomer, yet you say : " it does not agree with any other sidhanta " . If Bhaskara's planetary longitudes differ from Suryasiddhantic longitudes, why Bhaskara called Suryasiddhanta an " aagama " text, which places Suryasiddhanta in thye category of divine text ? So did Varahamihira, who called it " Saavitr " siddhanta, ie the theory of Vedic god Savita. Suryasiddhanta itself says it is a " rahasyam " . If you do not understand its " rahasyam " , it is not the fault of Suryasiddhanta. The descrepancies of other siddhantas with Suryasiddhanta was due to many factors which you do not understand. Makarandacharya used that ancient technique which was not known to Burgess. You have studied Jyotisha from wrong sources and therefore fail to understand the fundamentals of Indian Jyotisha. Unless and until you are able to explain Indian method of making true planetary longitudes, you have no right to call tham right or wrong. Ignorants have no right to participate in shaastraarthas. First tell me how the equation of centre (mandaphala) was solved according to Suryasiddhantic method used by the earliest extant Suryasiddhantic tables (Makaranda), and tell me WHY four phalas are used in a particular sequence to make true planet from mean motions. If you do not know these things, how can you participate in any debate on these topics? <<<Excepting you, all the other astronomers are using either Lahiri or Raman or even zero or some other ayanamsha >>> You are talking like a child !! Do you know " astronomers " differ from " astrologers " ?? You also do not know that astronomers have nothing to do with ayanamsha. Astronomers deal with precession of equinoxes, and no phenomenon like ayanamsha has ever been watched in physical astronomy. Hence, the very definition of librating ayanamsha has been modified by modern astronomers to suit their views about precession. They assumed that ancients confused precession with ayanamsha. But even after reading my article on Bhaskara's computation of precession which was not ayanamsha according to Bhaskara, you are adamant on confusing ayanamsha with precession. Original definition of ayanamsha has nothing to do with precession of equinoxes. You are making false statements deliberatelym merely to drive home your point, such as : <<<Still you claim to be making correct predictions from the same! Excepting you, all the other astronomers are using either Lahiri or Raman or even zero or some other ayanamsha and that also vis-a-vis modern astronomy! Almost all of them are satisfied with the results regarding making correct predictions. That is at least what they claim! >>> Instead of comparingthe phalita RESULTS of both methods, you have started counting votes to decide an academic issue. But even in this endeavour, you are taking resort to dishonesty and falsehood, forgetting that a majority of panchangas and jyotishis are making horoscopes not from computers but from tables most of which are originally based on Suryasiddhanta. Hence, while counting votes, you make all those votes invalid which do not conform to your biased mind. <<< Regarding your works being recognized by world's universities, to the best of my knowledge, the Surya Sidhanta is not recognized by any university except for BHU etc.>>> I said " My works are recognized by many leading institutions of the world " , but you assumed Suryasiddhanta to be my work. My rain forecasts were approved by NASA and many other reputed institutes. My paper on rain forecasting was accepted by IISc, CAOS (Bangalore). I never explained my method. What right you have of claiming wildly that I made those forecasts from Boyle's Law or Suryasiddhanta ?? You are fooling yourself by fighting like a bull in an intellectual field. I am not going to disclose my method to you. There are two varianta of Suryasiddhanta : Drikppaksha and Saurapaksha. Drikpaksha was used for physical world, as did Bhaskara-II in computing precession, and as Kamlakara Bhatta defined. Drikpaksha is exactly same as modern astronomy in its results. Saurapaksha was and is used in astrology. Planetary positions of Drikpaksha and Saurapaksha differ. If Drikpaksha is used in astrology, you will not get 100% accurate asterological results, and if Saurapaksha is used in physical astronomy, you will get wrong planetary positions. That is what you are doing. In spite my repeated statements that extant Suryasiddhanta should be tested only astrologically and never according to physical astronomy, you are adamant on making a wrong test just because you are a " Failed Astrologer " according to your own article. If you did not possess the talents of becoming a good astrologer, why the grapes became sour ?? <<< you who is claiming to be the only " real Vedic astrologer " as against all the others who are thus fake according to you>>> You are really a mean person for inventing such false statements in my name. I said many times that Suryasiddhanta is still the basis of a majority of Indian horoscopes, most of which are hand-made from traditional panchangas whose tables are largely based on Suryasiddhanta. Perhaps you think that those astrologers are not " Vedic Astrologers " who do not use computers and make horoscopes manually. All of them are neither genuine nor fake. Why you make wrong statements in my name ?? It is simply meanness. Instead of discussing intellectual matters, you are trying to play politics by pitting me against the whole world !! You are a fighter who wants to win a war through all fair or unfair means, but you do not know that I have no wish to fight. Intellectual matters cannot be solved by bullfighters. <<< And those universities have " recognized " the current version of that work, which in itself is quite wrong according to you!>>> Where I said so ?? Is your memory failing, or are you a habitual liar and rejoice in making false statements in the name of others?? The current version of Suryasiddhanta is the original siddhanta, barring a few verses which have been tampered by scribes during millenia of copying, and barring the verses on beeja-samskaara which all earliest manuscripts included but modern publishers have stopped publishing or commenting on. Varaha Mihira's version was not a siddhanta at all, but a karana text according to himself. You are a hopeless person. Ignorance can be cured, but there is no cure of dishonesty. Stop making false statements in my name. And if you can, stop discussions with me, I have no interest in you and your ideas. If you stop harassing me, I will also forget you. I have too much of work at hand, but you are a callous person and do not want to allow me to do my work. In the end, I repeat my point : only that person can be allowed to participate in a shaastraartha who knows the shaastra. Unless you learn how to compute the formulae I asked, you have no right to waste my time in any debate. If you forget this cardinal principle, you may soon find yourself in legal trouble. -VJ ================= == , " jyotirved " <jyotirved wrote: > > Shri Vinay Jha ji, > Jai Shri Ram! > > Thank you for your response. > > > <Thus, instead of testing and refuting the predictions based on this or that > method, you are rejecting me and my lifelong work without any trial or > debate, and are also rejecting the entire tradition of Jyotisha. Jyotishis, > therefore, are fully justified in rejecting you.> > > > > You are perhaps the only " modern Vedic astrologer " who is making correct > predictions from the longitudes of the Surya Sidhanta! As you are aware, it > does not agree with any other sidhanta nor does it tally at all with the > planetary longitudes as per modern astronomy---whether sayana or nirayana! > Still you claim to be making correct predictions from the same! > Excepting you, all the other astronomers are using either Lahiri or Raman or > even zero or some other ayanamsha and that also vis-a-vis modern astronomy! > Almost all of them are satisfied with the results regarding making correct > predictions. That is at least what they claim! > > It is obvious that either you are wrong in your assessments on the bases of > the data from the Surya Sidhanta or all the remaining jyotishis are wrong! > Nopth of you cannot be correct simultaneously, though both of you i.e. Surya > sidhanta walllas and modern astronomy-walas can be wrong simultaneously! > Ironically, all of you call yourselves Vedic astrologers! > > It is thus an impossible task to decide as to who is really a Vedic > astrologer amongst you, if at all there is any! > > As such, I do not understand as to what you mean when you say, " ..are also > rejecting the entire tradition of jyotisha " ? If your tradition which is > supposed to be based on the Surya Sidhanta is correct and that is the real > tradition, it is not being rejected by me but by the entire community of > " Vedic astrologers " ----billions and billions of them---are rejecting it! > And if their Lahiri or Ramana etc. Rashichakras are correct, you are > rejecting theirr tradition, obviously! > > You cannot have the cake and eat it as well. > > Regarding my trying your method, I have told you several times that I had > downloaded Kundalee software from your website but it does not work either > on WINXP or WINME---least of all VISTA. It always says, " phalit.exe file is > corrupt " or some other file is corrupt. Such a problem I am facing only > with your software, whereas JHORA and other software are working very fine > on my system! I downloaded the latest version of Kundalee software also but > that too has a similar problem! > > You must be aware that whether it is JHORA or Astrodienst or Future Point or > Parashara's Light or any other software, none has the calculations of the > Surya Sidhanta! Yours is the only one, but that does not work at all! > Still you want that I should give a trial to your software! > > < Your above statement portrays me as an obscurantist and anachronistic > fool. You project yourself as a man of scientific temperament. ..Those who > have read my biodata know that I have scientific works recognized by world's > recognized universities, and I excelled in science in my student days as > well.> > > > > Your imagination is running riot! You are presuming things like an > " obscurantist and anachronistic fool " etc. which were never intended by me. > You are unnecessarily entering into a personal slanging match! Regarding > your works being recognized by world's universities, to the best of my > knowledge, the Surya Sidhanta is not recognized by any university except for > BHU etc. And those universities have " recognized " the current version of > that work, which in itself is quite wrong according to you! That itself > means that the BHU etc. have recognized a wrong work! > > < But whom are you trying to cheat by making such statements ? ...All your > work consists of abuses against Vedic Jyotisha.> > > In fact, by claiming that correct predictions can be made only as per the > longitudes etc. from the Surya Sidhanta software that you have prepared, it > is you who is claiming to be the only " real Vedic astrologer " as against all > the others who are thus fake according to you, since they are using any and > every program except the one based on the Surya Sidhanhta! > > However, unless and until you, of any other " Vedic astrologer " , for that > matter, are able to prove that the Vedas talk of nothing but Mesha, Vrisha > etc. rashis, which are scientifically non-existent, and also ascribe > lordships of imaginary " animals of that imaginary zodiac " to inanimate > wandering bodies like Mangal, Shani etc., you do not have any right to call > predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " ! Similarly, unless and until you > also prove that the Vedas also talk of elusive Dasha-bhuktis and > pratyantaras---hundreds of them like Vimsxhotari, Ashtotari, Yogini, > Kalachakra etc. etc.--- and Kemadruma and hundreds of other Greek yogas > etc., besides of course, such terms as Panaphara, Apoklima, Kendra etc. > etc. you cannot call those predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " ! Same > is the case about " other Vedic astrologers " ---the only difference being that > except for Surya sidhanta longitudes, everything else remain the same in > their case i.e. they also call predictive gimmicks based on non-existent > Mesha etc. rashis etc. etc. Vedic astrology! It is as such, " Vedic > astrologers " who are cheating the public, and not me, since all I am asking > the " Vedic astrologers " to do is to substantiate their claims, which they > are unable to do! > > Do you, as such, realize at to what an injustice you are doing to the Vedas > and the Vedic seers when you try to thrust down our throat the > " proclamation " that we must believe in your words that the real Vamadeva > and Vishwamitra etc. Rishis believed in the non-sense called Kalasarpa yoga > and also patri melapak etc. etc. Is this what you are teaching the Hindus > as a monk? > > <I have already posted enough evidences in favour of veracity of Jyotisha.. > . because you do not want to see proofs of Vedic Jyotisha, which lies in > its predictive power..> > > No! You have not. You have yet to quote even a single mantra from the Vedas > that talks of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. rashis in that sequence and > advises that we must wager bets on the basis of those very non-existent > " twelve animals " of the " circle of animals " . You have yet to quote even a > single mantra or shloka from any Veda or Purana that has advised us to > contact some soothsayer for ascertaining as to what amount we will gain or > lose in stock-market by investing in which share! You have yet to give any > references to any mantras where the Vedic seers married only after > patri-melapak. So, how do you claim that you have already " posted > evidence " ? > > My dear Vinay Jha ji! Let me tell you something frankly. > > If at all you are able to forecast something uncannily accurately, it may > not be because of the Surya Sidhanta being a real gem of an astronomical or > astrological work, but only because you are a monk and you have some divine > powers. My grandpa used to make astoundingly correct predictions from > horoscopes prepared from Grahalaghava panchangas. And as you know, > Grahalghava is as accurate or inaccurate as the Surya Sidhanta is---that is > both of them are highly inaccurate.! > > <.Veda and Jyotisha cannot be mastered by mere reading. It is spiritual > knowledge, gathered by mean of tapasya and through guru.> > > Yes, you are right! Predictive gimmicks are not Vedic astrology and as > such, do not need any guru at all, since a real guru does not teach > something that is against the shastras. As you are aware, all the shastras > are against fatalism whereas horoscope reading is nothing but fatalism! > About tapasya, there is a saying, " Tapasa prapyete rajyam, rajyat naraka eva > chai " As you are a Sanskrit scholar, you must be knowing its meaning also, > but let me explain it for those who do not understand Sanskrit. The meaning > is, " One gets kingship through tapasya and then Hell through kingship " ! > Anybody making successful predictions by dint of tapasya is bartering real > diamonds with glittering pieces of glass! It is not necessarily for > pecuniary gains but may be just the satisfaction of ego that Mr. xxxx has > " vak-sidhi " and is making correct predictions! May be that Mr.x is not > himself aware of that barter! It is kaliyuga, as you know, and Kaliyuga > does not tolerate anyone performing real tapasya! > > > > < You never abuse Christian or Islamic astrology. It is not difficult to > discover your real religion which you hid beneath a superficial lip-service > to Vedas.> > > I have explained it several times in several forums that I am neither a cop > nor a social reformist! There are physiognomists and palmists and > numerologists and so on. I do not toiuch them with a barge pole. There are > also innumerable types of cheats and thugs in India, but they do not impinge > either directly or indirectly on the format/gamut of Vedic/Pauranic > calendar. It is only " Vedic astrology " that compels us to celebrate all the > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days because it is " Vedic astrologers " who > preside over all the conferences of Panchanga standardization-and we are > always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating " almighty " Lahiri festivals > instead of the real Vedic festivals! > > And somebody has to take up cudgels against that injustice! Being a very > unpleasant and thankless task, nobody wants to annoy the powerful lobby of > " Vedic astrologers " . But that does not mean that the ones not raising their > voices against such tyranny are not cowards! > > > > It is common knowledge by now that there are no Mesha etc. rashis in the > Vedas. As such, to talk of any Makara or Kmbha snakrnati ---whether so > called Sayana or so called nirayana---etc. being Vedic is taking the Hindu > society for a ride. There is thus no question of Vedic calendar being > either so called sayana or so called nirayana-since that term is applicable > only to Mesha etc. rashis! When we come to the Puranas and sidhantas, we > find that they talk of nothing but a so called sayana rashichakra. I am > posting separately a document BVB6.doc on your forum. Kindly do take some > time out and go through the same. You will see that all the Puranas and > sidhantas are talking of nothing but a so called Sayana Rashichakra for all > our festivals and muhurtas. It therefore means that we are celebrating our > festivals neither as per the Vedas nor as per Puranas not even modern > astronomy, so much so that not even Primary School level geography, which > talks of Winter Solstice (Uttarayana) and Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) > and the two equinoxes (Vasanta sampat and hemanta sampat). It is all > because of " Vedic astrology " and " Vedic astrologers " . > > Since you are a monk and a scholar, I beseech you in all earnest to set an > example by celebrating all the festivals on correct days. You will have to > eliminate Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashish from your vocabulary for this purpose. > And I am sure after pondering on all the facts kept before you, you will > definitely do that! The earlier you do so the better for the entire Hindu > community. Shubhasya sheegram. > > Satyam eva jayate, nanritam. > > Jai Shri Ram. > > A K Kaul > > ======================================= > > Vedic AstrologyForum , " VJha " vj.jyotish@ wrote: > > Fwd: Re: Abusers of Astrology : AK Kaul & c > > > > Mr Kaul, > > Your following remark is sufficient for a ban on you in all astrological > fora, including this one : > > " (Vinay Jha) who even in the twenty-first century makes correct > predictions from the Surya Sidhanta based software. That sidhanta is the > most inaccurate astronomical work as per modern astronomy! How can a > conference sort it out as to how Shri Jha is making correct predictions > from the same? " > > Thus, instead of testing and refuting the predictions based on this or > that method, you are rejecting me and my lifelong or work without any > trial or debate, and are also rejecting the entire tradition of > Jyotisha. Jyotishis, therefore, are fully justified in rejecting you. > > Your above statement portrays me as an obscurantist and anachronistist > fool. You project yourself as a man of scientific temperament. But whom > are you trying to cheat by making such statements ? Those who have read > by biodate know that I have scientific works recognized by world's > recognized universities, and I excelled in science in my studen days as > well. You have shown no proof of your contribution to any field of human > knowledge. All your work consists of abuses against Vedic Jyotisha. > > Yet I am not banning you now. Shaastraarthas were always held in > conferences, but you want your own opinions. Keep them, because you do > not want to see proofs of Vedic Jyotisha, which lies in its predictive > power. Your refusal to see proofs ends our dialogue here. Henceforth, > if you flood this forum with too much of your anti-astrological > nonsense, you will be instantly banned. I have already posted enough > evidences in favour of veracity of Jyotisha, but you never discuss pros > and cons of such things. You never abuse Christian or Islamic astrology. > It is not difficult to discover your real religion which you hide > beneath a superficial lip-service to Vedas. Veda and Jyotisha cannot be > mastered by mere reading. It is spiritual knowledge, gathered by means > of tapasya and through guru. A dishonest soul is unfit for such things. > > -VJ > ==================== ==== > > > > > > Vedic AstrologyForum > <Vedic AstrologyForum/post?postID=vGNkfeB7F\ 9H3V > XePz2Jz-RHXeFfJt44zmhA5dNGD9rqwDPBnTfry_hzRGo00Ufk8O0X_xX9qtMEV7CFbOFDh1\ ksZl > JaVFq4FQqY> , " Krishen " a_krishen@ > wrote: > > > > HinduCalendar > <Vedic AstrologyForum/post?postID=vxj0CKOk7\ l8Wc > bthse1kK8sjbEzrwh7-t2wdLtk3uUCKTZyLG72J4JKqrsrnjGBC0G_9AuiP-9Lm4nGYiDOBI\ O-B1 > HFn> , " Krishen " jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > Shri A. Sharma ji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > One does not do shastrartha in a conference! > > Besides, any conference by jyotishis is usually of jyotishis and for > jyotishis! I have had bitter experiences of attending such conferences > of jyotishis, since the points of discussion there are not astronomy or > calendar reform, but honing the tools of prediction and blowing their > own trumpets as to who made how many correct predictions on the basis of > what ayanamsha or dasha-bhukti! > > Secondly, I do not have anything to sort out with Shri Vinay Jha > personally because we have no personal grievances against one another. > He is a well read scholar who interprets things his own way and who even > in the twenty-first century makes correct predictions from the Surya > Sidhanta based software. That sidhanta is the most inaccurate > astronomical work as per modern astronomy! How can a conference sort it > out as to how Shri Jha is making correct predictions from the same? > > It is as such, much better that experts of different disciplines join > the internet forums to sift grain from the chaf. As far as I can > understand personally, all the real astronomers are already aware of the > mess known as Vedic astrology and how it has derailed the Vedic > calendar. This you can judge from various astronomical forums. They, > however, do not want to take up cudgels against the same, for reasons > not difficult to discern! > > Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. > > Jai Shri Ram > > A K Kaul > > > > > > HinduCalendar > <Vedic AstrologyForum/post?postID=vxj0CKOk7\ l8Wc > bthse1kK8sjbEzrwh7-t2wdLtk3uUCKTZyLG72J4JKqrsrnjGBC0G_9AuiP-9Lm4nGYiDOBI\ O-B1 > HFn> , A Sharma <asharmanz@> wrote: > > > > > > AKKji, > > > > > > CC: Vinay Jhaji. > > > > > > AKKji, Vinay Jhaji has invited you to the 20 Dec 2009conference in > Patna. > > > > > > Please attend and sort out whatever can be sorted out between Vinay > Jhaji and yourself. > > > > > > ASharma. > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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