fifth Veda talks of nothing but sayana rashis!

[Guest guest]

Shri Hari Mall Ji,

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

I am surprised to see your #6447 of Oct 29 and the subsequent reminder of

Nov. 3 that I must reply your earlier post of October 29 in Hinducalendar

forum.

 

 

 

You have asked a surprising question, " Does it never occur to you that

instead of makar sankranti being purely sayan, the Bhagavata puranas etc.

could mean just that it is the nirayan sankranti (first day of the solar

month of maagha, when the sun falls on nirayan makar rashi) which falls

nearest to the sayan uttarayan, the actual shortest day, when it says 'makar

sankranti is uttarayan "

 

 

 

Are you really so ignorant of the facts in spite of my having clarified all

the things hundreds of times or do have really something up your sleeves?

 

 

 

Why can't you understand the simple fact that sayana and nirayana terms are

creations of jyotishis, by jyotishis and for jyotishis, and the word

ayanamsha itself came into existence after tenth century AD when Munjala's

Laghumanasa appeared on the scene?

 

Have you read any of the Puranas or even sidhantas yourself? No. You have

not, since then you would not be asking such useless questions. You have

not read even the BVB6.doc at all though I have circulated it several times

on several forums. You are just trying to pick some threads from here and

there like a drowning man trying to catch at a straw!

 

 

 

In paragraph 5 of the BVB.6 I have quoted Vishnupurana: 2/8/28-31 and 67-68

as saying,

 

ayanasyotarasyadav makaram yati bhaskarah

 

tatah kumbham cha menam cha rashe rashyantaram dvija (28)

 

trishu eteshu atha bhukteshu tato vaishuvatim gatim

 

prayati savita kurvan ahoratram tatah samam

(29)

 

tato ratrih kshayam yati vardhate anudinam dinam

(30)

 

tatashcha mithunasyante param kashtham upagatah

 

rashim karkatam prapya kurute dakshinayanam

(31)

 

" In the beginning of Uttarayana, the sun enters Capricorn

(Makara Rashi) there from going to Kumbha and them Mina. After having passed

through these three signs, it just gains vishuvati (equinoctial) speed

resulting in the day and night being equal on Mesha. After that, nights

start decreasing and the days increasing correspondingly daily. Then when

the sun is in the end of Mithuna Rashi, i.e. when it is just at the verge of

entering Cancer, the day is the longest then and Dakshnayana starts on that

date " .

 

Sharad vsantyor Madhye vishuvam to vibhavyete

 

Tula mesh gate bhanav samratri divam tu tat

(67)

 

Karkatavasthite bhanav dakshiyanamuchete

 

Uttarayanam api uktam makarasthe divakare

(68)

 

" In the midst of sharat ritu and vasanta ritu, vishuvas (equinoxes) take

place with the entry of the sun into Tula (Libra) and Mesha (Aries)

respectively and days and nights become equal on those two sankrantis. The

entry of sun into Cancer (Karkata) is known as dakshinayana whereas its

entry into Maraka is known as Uttarayana "

 

.........

 

The Vishnu Purana by Parashara Rishi, the father of Krishna Dvaipayana

Vedavyasa, has thus said in very clear terms that the sun enters Makar

Rashi in the beginning of Uttarayana, and the day of Makar Sankranti itself

is the shortest day of the year. As such, what is nirayana about it? In

67th and 68th shlokas Parshara Rishi has made it absolutely clear that when

the sun is in Tula or Mesha it is Vishuva i.e. the days are equal to nights

on those two days. What is nirayana about it? Similarly, he has said,

" When the sun is in karkata it is dakshinayana, the longest day of the

year " . Again what is nirayana about it?. How can you ever think of a so

called nirayana mess in such plain and explicit statements of Parashara

Rishi, which he is supposed to have made at the fag end of Dwapara Yuga,

which is supposed to have ended at least 5000 years back? That means there

was absolutely no chance of so called sayana coinciding with so called

nirayana, as is supposed to have happened in 285 AD by Lahiriwalas and 390

AD by Surya Sidhantawalas and so on.

 

 

 

IT IS ACTUALLY A REBUKE TO THE SO CALLED NIRAYANA ASTROLOGERS, WHO, ON THE

ONE HAND, SWEAR BY BRIHAT PARASHARI OF PARASHARA RISHI BUT AT THE SAME TIME

INTERPRET EVERY WORD OF THAT VERY WORK IN TERMS OF SO CALLED LAHIRI/RAMAN

ETC. NIRAYANA RASHIS, WHICH ARE ACTUALLY CONSPICUOUS BY THEIR ABSENCE FROM

EVEN THE VISHNU PURANA BY THE SAME PARASHARA RISHI! Hats off to such

Parashara jyotishis!

 

 

 

Now coming to Srimad Bhagavata, in the same BVB6.doc As you would be aware

some people call it as " the fifth Veda " .

 

Now Shrimadbhagavata, 5/21/4-6

 

yada mesh tulyor vartate tada ahoratrani samanani bhavanti yada vrishadishu

panchasu cha rashishu charati tada ahani eva vardhante hrasati cha masi masi

ekaika ghatika ratrishu (4) yada vrishchikadishu panchasu

vartate tada ahoratrani viparyayani bhavanti (5) yavad dakshinayanam ahani

vardhante yavad uttarayanam ratrayah (6)

 

" When the sun enters Mesha and Tula days and nights are equal on those dates

and the day starts getting longer as compared to nights when the sun passes

through Vrisha etc. five rashis then days keep on increasing and the nights

decreasing by one ghati every month. (After the day and night have become

equal on Tula Sankranti) the nights keep on increasing during the sojourn of

five rashis of Vrishchika etc. In short, during Uttarayana days keep on

increasing till Dakshinayana and after that nights keep on increasing " .

 

 

 

Here Krishna Dwaipayana Vedavyasa has made it absolutely clear that day is

equal to night when the sun enters Mesha or Tula Rashi. What is nirayana

about these statements?

 

 

 

Vishnudharmotarapurana was supposed to be the authority for deciding the

days of festivals etc. in India during the sojourn of Alberuni in eleventh

century And this is what that Vishnudharmotara has to say, again, being

quoted from BVB6.doc itself

 

Vishnurhdarmotarapurana 3/8/6-8 says

 

tula meshagate bhanav vishuvad dinam uchete,

 

dhanvato mithunantashcha ayane soasya dakshine,

 

" When the sun is in Mesha and Tula, they are the days of Vishuva i.e. days

and nights are equal then. From the end of Dhanu (start of Makara)

Uttarayana starts and from the end of Mithuna (start of Karkata) Dakshniyana

starts "

 

The same Vishnudharmotara has said in 3/9/4-5

 

.chaitro madhur-iti smritah,

 

vaishakho madhavah proktah, shuchir jyeshthah udahritah

 

shuklah proktastatha ashado nabhah shravan ishyete,

 

praushthapado nabhasyashcha ishashch ashvayujah smritah

 

urjakhyah kartikah prokto margshirshah sahastatha

 

sahasya paush ityukto maghah syat tap eva cha

 

phalgunashcha tapasyakhyo maso.

 

" (i) Chaitra is known as Madhu (or Madhu is known as Chaitra)! (ii)

Vaishakha as Madhava; (iii) Jyeshtha as Shuchih; (iv) Ashadha as Shuklah (or

Shukrah); (v) Nabhah as Shravana; (vi) Praushthapada (Bhadrapada) as

Nabhasya; (vii) Ashvayuja (Ashvina) as Ishah; (viii) Urja as Kartika; (ix)

Margashirsha as Saha; (x) Sahasya as Pausha; (xi) Magha as Tapah and (xii)

Phalguna as Tapasya. "

 

 

 

Why can't you see that exactly on the pattern of the Vedanga Jyotisha,

Vishndudharmotara has named Chaitra as Madhu and so on. IT THUS PROVES

WITHOUT DOUT THAT THE RAMANAVMI I.E. THE FESTIVAL OF BIRTH OF BHAGWAN RAM

MUST BE CELEBRATED IN THE MONTH OF MADHU, SINCE THAT IS JUST ANOTHER NAME OF

CHAITRA. YOU MAY AS WELL SAY THAT CHAITRA ITSELF IS ANOTHER NAME OF MADHU.

You must therefore understand it once for all there are no so called

nirayana Magha or Chaitra etc. lunar months either! And obviously, we are

not celebrating even Ramanavmi on correct days, thanks to the nirayana mess!

 

 

 

What other proofs do you want from the Puranas that they had absolutely no

idea about any so called nirayana Rashichakra?

 

 

 

Now coming to the Surya Sidhanta, which I have quoted in BVB6.doc. and here

it is what I have said

 

Lest there be any doubt as to what type of Rashis the Surya Sidhanta is

talking about, it makes it clear in Bhugoladhyaya, verses 57 to 62:

 

meshadav to sada vridhir udaguttarto adhika

 

devamshe cha kshapa hanir vipareetam tatha asure

 

tuladav dyunishorvamam kshyay vridhav tayorubhe

 

deshkranti vashan nitem tadvigyanam puroditam

 

ayanante vilomena devasur vibhagayoh

 

nadi shashtya sakrid ahar nishapi asmin sakrit

 

tadantare api shashtyante kshayvridhav ahar-nishoh

 

parto vipareeto ayam bhagolah parivartate.

 

" During the half revolution beginning with Mesha, there is always an excess

of day to the north, in the hemisphere of the gods i.e. Uttarayana---greater

according to distance north---and a corresponding deficiency of the night.

In the hemisphere of the demons (Dakshinayana), the reverse. In the half

revolution beginning with Libra (Tula) both the deficiency and excess of day

and night in the two hemispheres are the opposite of this. The method of

determining them, which is always dependent upon situation (desha) and

declination (kranti), has been before explained.

 

" There occurs once, at the end of the sun's half revolution from

solstice to solstice---(Uttarayana to Dakshinayana) a day of sixty nadis and

a night of the same length mutually opposed to one another, in the two

hemispheres of the gods and of the demons. In the intermediate region, the

deficiency and excess of day and night are within the limit of sixty nadis

beyond this sphere of asterisms (bha) revolves perversely " . (Burgess'

translation).

 

Two things are clear from the above to even a layman with a bit

of knowledge of geography of primary school level about the phenomenon of

seasons: i) It is only around March 21 (Spring Equinox) Mesha Sankranti

every year that day and night are equal and the length of day in the

northern hemisphere starts increasing as compared to the length of night.

 

As such, what nirayana are you talking about?

 

 

 

To remove the cobwebs from the minds of people like you who deliberately

keep on twisting every statement because of their ulterior motives, I had

even quoted from TANTRALOKA of one of the greatest Shaiva Scholars, mystics

and yogis of India viz. Acharya Abhinavagupta of tenth century AD, together

with the Sanskrit commentary of Jayaratha of twelfth century AD, and here is

that quote

 

6. To clinch the issue on the basis of Agama i.e. yogashastras, I

will quote the master-yogi i.e. Acharya Abhinavgupta's Tantraloka: 6/114-116

 

 

shatsu shatsu anguleshu arko hridayat makaradishu

 

tishthan maghadikam shatkam kuryat tat-chotarayanam

 

sankranti tritaye vrite bhukte chashtadashangule

 

mesham prapte ravav punyam vishuvat par laukikam

 

praveshe tu tulasthe arke tadev vishuvad bhavet

 

Ih sidhi pradam chaitat dakshinayan-gam tatah

 

The translation of these mantras, as per the commentary of Jayaratha is,

(Linking yogic kriyas to seasons, it says, " After every six ungalas from the

hirdaya (the pranas go to) Makara etc. and make Magha etc. six such months

from Uttarayana starting with sun's transit into Makara. From Makra to

Mithuna is Uttarayana and in Magha sun transits Makara Rashi so till Ashada

when the sun transits Mithuna, Uttarayana lasts, After having crossed three

sankrantis (of Uttarayana)-eighteen unglas of Prana --= vishuvat Sankranti

arrives. Because on that day of Mesha sankranti the days and nights are

equal throughout the world that is why it is known as vishuvat. When the

sun enters Tula it is vishuva again " .

 

I do not think that there should be any doubt now in anybody's mind as to

how we are being taken for a ride by these panchanga-makers. Or is it that

those panchangakars themselves are being taken for a ride by someone else

either knowingly or unbeknown to them? In either case, it is literally

killing our dharma. "

 

 

 

Here also Makara is the month of Magha! And both are Sayana since six

months of Uttarayana start from the day of Makara Sankranti! And that is in

twelfth century AD

 

It means that whether it was 3000 BCE of the " fifth Veda " or Parashara

Rishi, or twelfth century AD of Acharya Abhinvagupta or Jayaratha, there was

never even a whiff of so called nirayana mess in any of the documents that

we have studied so far. What other proofs do you want?

 

 

 

I wonder whether you have marked in the above quotes from the

Vishnudharmotara or Vishnu Purana or Srimad Bhagavata or even Tantraloka

etc. as to how meticulously they have replicated the intrinsic so called

sayana rashis of the Surya Sidhanta!

 

 

 

What other proofs does anybody want for the fact that Rashis in the Puranas

etc. appeared only after the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha had appeared

on the scene?

 

 

 

Obviously, I have started doubting your intentions since in spite of such

clear quotes from the puranas and other shastras and sidhantas, you are

still talking of some non-existent so called nirayana rashis and nirayana

Chaitra etc. months! Is that the service you claim to be rendering to Hindu

dharma, since it is not only that you do not want the Hindu community to

celebrate festivals as per the Vedic ethos, when there were no Mesha etc.

rashis, but you are just deliberately and willfully ignoring the

admonishments of Puranas and Tantra and yoga shastras, apart from Primary

School level geography that if at all you have to choose Rashis for

festivals etc., they have to be so called sayana!

 

 

 

Jai Shri Ram

 

A K Kaul

 

HinduCalendar , " hari " <harimalla wrote:

 

 

 

Dear shri Kaulji,

Namaskar!

<By studying the Bhagavata, Vishnu Purana. Shiva P:urana, Linga Purana,

Vishnudharmotara Purana etc. etc. besides the Surya Sidhanta etc.sidhantas.>

Does it never occur to you that instead of makar sankranti being purely

sayan,the the Bhagavata,puranas etc. could mean just that it is the nirayan

sankranti (first day of the solar month of maagha, when the sun falls on

nirayan

makar rashi) which falls nearest to the sayan uttarayan,the actual shortest

day,

when it says 'makar sankranti is uttarayan'. If not, why it cannot be so?

Was it not the same system in vedanga jyotish also, that the first day of

the

amanta lunar month of maagha designated the uttaryan, although uttaryan fell

sometime before and sometime after maagha sukla pratipada? Was maagha sukla

pratipada not the civil celebration date for uttaryan? Did they every year

calculate or measured the shortest day when uttarayan or the new year was to

be

celebrated?

How do you explain, the statement of Barahmihir in his Brihad samhita,

Adityacharadhyaya, the first sloka: 'Aslesharhat...'etc. where it is

mentioned

about shifting of sun in the beginning of dhanistha to sun in makar

sankranti

as uttaryan.If it was only sayan it need not be shifted all at once, seven

padas

of nakshyatras. Does it not occur to you that nirayan solar uttaryan was

shifted

from the sun in dhanistha position to sun in makar sankranti position? Have

you

dealt about these points in your BVB6.doc? Thanks in advance for your

consideration of these points.

Regards,

Hari malla

 

HinduCalendar

<HinduCalendar/post?postID=SQRPr3rKxM1MkZ6_6_t

y-VQxaDeRIuHYGOwlaggeyvyHQ9GpHOJBOREFwJCsytN9aLqAwHIAUHmxd-LNW32bil8unw> ,

" Krishen " <jyotirved wrote:

>

>

> Shri Hari Malla ji,

> Jai Shri Ram!

> <how did you ever conclude that 'makar sankranti is the start of

> uttaryan' means A sayan expression>

> By studying the Bhagavata, Vishnu Purana. Shiva P:urana, Linga Purana,

> Vishnudharmotara Purana etc. etc. besides the Surya Sidhanta etc.

> sidhantas. Obvioiusly, you have not gone through BVB6.doc ---or is it

> that you are keeping your ears deliberately closed to the admonishments

> of scriptures?

>

> <when you have been celebrating all the makar sankrantis in your

> lifetime as nirayan>

> I believed Vijayeshwar Jantri of J & K blindly, since that was the only

> jantri/panchanga in Kashmir then and it had been going on for a couple

> of centuries! It was based on Grahalaghava, as that was the easiest

> work from which to prepare jantris/panchangas!

>

> It " advised " me my " rashiphal " and " amdani aur kharch ka naksha " etc.

> ec. apart from of course Tekini-milnavuni i.e. horoscopoe matching and

> what not! It even contains " navagraha patha " for sade-sati etc. etc.

> But as the saying goes, " subah ka bhoola agar sham ko ghar vapas aa jaye

> to usko bhoola mat samajhna " --- which would mean something like,

> " Bettern late than never " .

>

> <AM I WRONG IN SAYING SO>

> No! Absolutely not! But you are certainly wrong if you want me to

> continue to follow a system of celebrating festivals which is neither

> Vedic nor Pauranic nor sidhantic AND ABOVE ALL NOT EVEN AS PER PRIMARY

> SCHOOL LEVEL GEOGRAPHY!

> Others may have some axe to grind to continue celebrating festivals on

> wrong days, but as far as I am concerned, I want that the only axe that

> any Hindu has to grind must be to celebrate festivals on correct days,

> for which purpose they will have to eliminate the use of Mesh, Vrisha

> etc. rashis completely from their vocabulary!

> I am sure you will not switch over to the correct system in spite of

> your having realized that you are following a worng system! You will

> continue to follow the same---although in a different garb of fiteen

> degrees plus and fifteen degrees minus--- and advise others also to

> continue to do so! And you know as well as I know as to why you will

> continue your efforts in that )mis-)direction.

> Jai Shri Ram

> A K Kaul

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

HinduCalendar , " Krishen " <jyotirved wrote:

 

 

 

Shri Hari Malla Ji,

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

<Please try to concentrate where SB Dixit says, the purpose of adhimas

is only to bring the lunar seasons and festivals>

 

I fully agree with you on this point. So what are you cribbing about?

 

<.Do you find such difficulty to understand this basic fact.AS long as

adhimas is there how can it lead us to the Hejira Calendar>

 

No. I donot find any difficulty in accepting your point that so long as

the lunar months are adhika or kshyaya vis-a-vis seasonal solar months,

they are on the pattern of the real Vedic calendar.

 

<.Do you find such difficulty to understand this basic fact.AS long as

adhimas is there how can it lead us to the Hejira Calendar?>

 

The adhimasa will definitely lead to a Hegira calendar if it is

celebrated unrelated to the solar seaosonal months.

 

<Please wash away your western concept of our religion.>

 

Is nirayana, which you are advocating, the real concept of your

religion? If yes, then pl. do quote at least some puranas. As far as I

remember, Western culture does not consider synodic months at all for

any of their activities.

 

Jai Shri Ram

 

A K Kaul

 

 

 

HinduCalendar , " hari " harimalla@ wrote:

>

> Dear shri Kaulji,

> namaskar!

> <Your imagination is running riot, as usual, and you are interpreting

> dharmashastras also accordingly! And if you continue with the same,

you will definitely put Nepal in the lap of Hegira calenar, since that

is the only calendar that goes by synodic (what you call lunar) months

to the exclusion of seasonal solar months.>

>

> Please try to concentrate where SB Dixit says, the purpose of adhimas

is only to bring the lunar seasons and festivals.Do you find such

difficulty to understand this basic fact.AS long as adhimas is there how

can it lead us to the Hejira Calendar? Our lunar months are seasonal due

to the adhimas.Why do you not study some dharma shastra, say like Dharma

sindhu. Right in the beginning they say that the seasons are of two

types solar and the lunar.You must get rid of of your concept of season

being only solar. Please wash away your western concept of our

religion.Thank you.

> Regards.

> Hari Malla

>

>

>

>

> HinduCalendar , " Krishen " jyotirved@ wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Shri Hari Mallaji,

> >

> > Jai Shri Ram!

> >

> > <In connection with this yogic practise, let me tell you what we

have in

> > Nepal.The yogic deity connectd with uttarayan and dakhinayan is

known as

> > the Red Matsyendranath.There is a festival of when Matsyendranath is

> > brought every year to the city of Patan from the southern village of

> > Bungmati on the uttaryan date.This is done before the end of solar

> > Mangsir.Thus this indicates that by beginning of solar poush,

uttaryan

> > starts. the deity is also taken back every year to Bungmati by say

the

> > beginning of Ashadh.This custom has been in practice since about 400

> > years back.So much for reformed uttaryan and dakhinayan in Nepal. >

> >

> > Pl. read the shlokas/mantras from Tantraloka, with their commentary

of

> > Jayaratha again! Uttarayana has been linked with Magha in about

twelfth

> > century AD, when Jayartha was around. As such, what Nepal has been

> > doing over the last four hundred years is more or less the same

thing as

> > India has been doing i.e. celebrating all the festivals including

the

> > Magha snana on topsy turvy days! And that is why there is the need

of

> > calendar reform!

> >

> > <Then connected with the story is also the story of Gorakhnath,who

is

> > said to have risen when his guru Matsyendaranath was brought to

Nepal

> > and rainfall is said to have occurred in Nepal. This is the

realisation

> > of the lunar center.

> > Thus to the story of utaryanan dakhinayan is linked the story of the

> > rising of the mooon too in the yogic practice.Thus the need to link

with

> > the moon and tithi too instead of only to the solar dates.>

> >

> > This is all your wishful thinking and you may as well persevere with

the

> > same!

> >

> > < This is same as the flight of hanuman to Lanka after which Ram

Chandra

> > gets up from Sugrive's cave to proceed to lanka,and ultimately kills

> > Ravan.Ram Chandra is basically representing the moon and its rising

and

> > the center of the lunar orbit as the Purush or God.? Unless you read

the

> > dharma shastra and understand that God or Purush is at the center of

the

> > lunar orbit, you are bound to get confused everywhere in calendar

> > reform.

> > The lunar orbit is ultimately fixed at the vishuva.thus the yogis

give

> > importance to vishuva too.>

> >

> > Your imagination is running riot, as usual, and you are interpreting

> > dharmashastras also accordingly! And if you continue with the same,

you

> > will definitely put Nepal in the lap of Hegira calenar, since that

is

> > the only calendar that goes by synodic (what you call lunar) months

to

> > the exclusion of seasonal solar months.

> > Jai Shri Ram

> >

> > A K Kaul

> >

> >

> > HinduCalendar , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear shri Kaulji,

> > > 'Linking yogic kriyas to seasons' this is a very good thing you

have

> > said.In fact unless you are able to understand the yogic kriyas,let

me

> > tell you again you will not be able to get the calendar reform

through.

> > >

> > > <The translation of these mantras, as per the commentary of

Jayaratha

> > is, (Linking yogic kriyas to seasons, it says, " After every six

ungalas

> > from the hirdaya (the pranas go to) Makara etc. and make Magha etc.

six

> > such months from Uttarayana starting with sun's transit into Makara.

> > From Makra to Mithuna is Uttarayana and in Magha sun transits Makara

> > Rashi so till Ashada when the sun transits Mithuna, Uttarayana

lasts,

> > After having crossed three sankrantis (of Uttarayana)–eighteen

> > unglas of Prana --= vishuvat Sankranti arrives. Because on that day

of

> > Mesha sankranti the days and nights are equal throughout the world

that

> > is why it is known as vishuvat. When the sun enters Tula it is

vishuva

> > again " .>

> > >

> > > In connection with this yogic practise, let me tell you what we

have

> > in Nepal.The yogic deity connectd with uttarayan and dakhinayan is

known

> > as the Red Matsyendranath.There is a festival of when Matsyendranath

is

> > brought every year to the city of Patan from the southern village of

> > Bungmati on the uttaryan date.This is done before the end of solar

> > Mangsir.Thus this indicates that by beginning of solar poush,

uttaryan

> > starts. the deity is also taken back every year to Bungmati by say

the

> > beginning of Ashadh.This custom has been in practice since about 400

> > years back.So much for reformed uttaryan and dakhinayan in Nepal.

Then

> > connected with the story is also the story of Gorakhnath,who is said

to

> > have risen when his guru Matsyendaranath was brought to Nepal and

> > rainfall is said to have occurred in Nepal. This is the realisation

of

> > the lunar center.

> > > Thus to the story of utaryanan dakhinayan is linked the story of

the

> > rising of the mooon too in the yogic practice.Thus the need to link

with

> > the moon and tithi too instead of only to the solar dates.

> > > This is same as the flight of hanuman to Lanka after which Ram

Chandra

> > gets up from Sugrive's cave to proceed to lanka,and ultimately kills

> > Ravan.Ram Chandra is basically representing the moon and its rising

and

> > the center of the lunar orbit as the Purush or God.? Unless you read

the

> > dharma shastra and understand that God or Purush is at the center of

the

> > lunar orbit, you are bound to get confused everywhere in calendar

> > reform.

> > > The lunar orbit is ultimately fixed at the vishuva.thus the yogis

give

> > importance to vishuva too.

> > > thanks,

> > > Hari Malla

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " jyotirved@

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shri Hari Mall Ji,

> > > >

> > > > Jai Shri Ram!

> > > >

> > > > I am surprised to see your #6447 of Oct 29 and the subsequent

> > reminder of

> > > > Nov. 3 that I must reply your earlier post of October 29 in

> > Hinducalendar

> > > > forum.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > You have asked a surprising question, " Does it never occur to

you

> > that

> > > > instead of makar sankranti being purely sayan, the Bhagavata

puranas

> > etc.

> > > > could mean just that it is the nirayan sankranti (first day of

the

> > solar

> > > > month of maagha, when the sun falls on nirayan makar rashi)

which

> > falls

> > > > nearest to the sayan uttarayan, the actual shortest day, when it

> > says 'makar

> > > > sankranti is uttarayan "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Are you really so ignorant of the facts in spite of my having

> > clarified all

> > > > the things hundreds of times or do have really something up your

> > sleeves?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Why can't you understand the simple fact that sayana and

nirayana

> > terms are

> > > > creations of jyotishis, by jyotishis and for jyotishis, and the

word

> > > > ayanamsha itself came into existence after tenth century AD when

> > Munjala's

> > > > Laghumanasa appeared on the scene?

> > > >

> > > > Have you read any of the Puranas or even sidhantas yourself? No.

You

> > have

> > > > not, since then you would not be asking such useless questions.

You

> > have

> > > > not read even the BVB6.doc at all though I have circulated it

> > several times

> > > > on several forums. You are just trying to pick some threads from

> > here and

> > > > there like a drowning man trying to catch at a straw!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > In paragraph 5 of the BVB.6 I have quoted Vishnupurana:

2/8/28-31

> > and 67-68

> > > > as saying,

> > > >

> > > > ayanasyotarasyadav makaram yati bhaskarah

> > > >

> > > > tatah kumbham cha menam cha rashe rashyantaram dvija (28)

> > > >

> > > > trishu eteshu atha bhukteshu tato vaishuvatim gatim

> > > >

> > > > prayati savita kurvan ahoratram tatah samam

> > > > (29)

> > > >

> > > > tato ratrih kshayam yati vardhate anudinam dinam

> > > > (30)

> > > >

> > > > tatashcha mithunasyante param kashtham upagatah

> > > >

> > > > rashim karkatam prapya kurute dakshinayanam

> > > > (31)

> > > >

> > > > " In the beginning of Uttarayana, the sun enters Capricorn

> > > > (Makara Rashi) there from going to Kumbha and them Mina. After

> > having passed

> > > > through these three signs, it just gains vishuvati (equinoctial)

> > speed

> > > > resulting in the day and night being equal on Mesha. After that,

> > nights

> > > > start decreasing and the days increasing correspondingly daily.

Then

> > when

> > > > the sun is in the end of Mithuna Rashi, i.e. when it is just at

the

> > verge of

> > > > entering Cancer, the day is the longest then and Dakshnayana

starts

> > on that

> > > > date " .

> > > >

> > > > Sharad vsantyor Madhye vishuvam to vibhavyete

> > > >

> > > > Tula mesh gate bhanav samratri divam tu tat

> > > > (67)

> > > >

> > > > Karkatavasthite bhanav dakshiyanamuchete

> > > >

> > > > Uttarayanam api uktam makarasthe divakare

> > > > (68)

> > > >

> > > > " In the midst of sharat ritu and vasanta ritu, vishuvas

(equinoxes)

> > take

> > > > place with the entry of the sun into Tula (Libra) and Mesha

(Aries)

> > > > respectively and days and nights become equal on those two

> > sankrantis. The

> > > > entry of sun into Cancer (Karkata) is known as dakshinayana

whereas

> > its

> > > > entry into Maraka is known as Uttarayana "

> > > >

> > > > ........

> > > >

> > > > The Vishnu Purana by Parashara Rishi, the father of Krishna

> > Dvaipayana

> > > > Vedavyasa, has thus said in very clear terms that the sun enters

> > Makar

> > > > Rashi in the beginning of Uttarayana, and the day of Makar

Sankranti

> > itself

> > > > is the shortest day of the year. As such, what is nirayana about

it?

> > In

> > > > 67th and 68th shlokas Parshara Rishi has made it absolutely

clear

> > that when

> > > > the sun is in Tula or Mesha it is Vishuva i.e. the days are

equal to

> > nights

> > > > on those two days. What is nirayana about it? Similarly, he has

> > said,

> > > > " When the sun is in karkata it is dakshinayana, the longest day

of

> > the

> > > > year " . Again what is nirayana about it?. How can you ever think

of a

> > so

> > > > called nirayana mess in such plain and explicit statements of

> > Parashara

> > > > Rishi, which he is supposed to have made at the fag end of

Dwapara

> > Yuga,

> > > > which is supposed to have ended at least 5000 years back? That

means

> > there

> > > > was absolutely no chance of so called sayana coinciding with so

> > called

> > > > nirayana, as is supposed to have happened in 285 AD by

Lahiriwalas

> > and 390

> > > > AD by Surya Sidhantawalas and so on.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > IT IS ACTUALLY A REBUKE TO THE SO CALLED NIRAYANA ASTROLOGERS,

WHO,

> > ON THE

> > > > ONE HAND, SWEAR BY BRIHAT PARASHARI OF PARASHARA RISHI BUT AT

THE

> > SAME TIME

> > > > INTERPRET EVERY WORD OF THAT VERY WORK IN TERMS OF SO CALLED

> > LAHIRI/RAMAN

> > > > ETC. NIRAYANA RASHIS, WHICH ARE ACTUALLY CONSPICUOUS BY THEIR

> > ABSENCE FROM

> > > > EVEN THE VISHNU PURANA BY THE SAME PARASHARA RISHI! Hats off to

such

> > > > Parashara jyotishis!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Now coming to Srimad Bhagavata, in the same BVB6.doc As you

would be

> > aware

> > > > some people call it as " the fifth Veda " .

> > > >

> > > > Now Shrimadbhagavata, 5/21/4-6

> > > >

> > > > yada mesh tulyor vartate tada ahoratrani samanani bhavanti yada

> > vrishadishu

> > > > panchasu cha rashishu charati tada ahani eva vardhante hrasati

cha

> > masi masi

> > > > ekaika ghatika ratrishu (4) yada vrishchikadishu panchasu

> > > > vartate tada ahoratrani viparyayani bhavanti (5) yavad

dakshinayanam

> > ahani

> > > > vardhante yavad uttarayanam ratrayah (6)

> > > >

> > > > " When the sun enters Mesha and Tula days and nights are equal on

> > those dates

> > > > and the day starts getting longer as compared to nights when the

sun

> > passes

> > > > through Vrisha etc. five rashis then days keep on increasing and

the

> > nights

> > > > decreasing by one ghati every month. (After the day and night

have

> > become

> > > > equal on Tula Sankranti) the nights keep on increasing during

the

> > sojourn of

> > > > five rashis of Vrishchika etc. In short, during Uttarayana days

keep

> > on

> > > > increasing till Dakshinayana and after that nights keep on

> > increasing " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Here Krishna Dwaipayana Vedavyasa has made it absolutely clear

that

> > day is

> > > > equal to night when the sun enters Mesha or Tula Rashi. What is

> > nirayana

> > > > about these statements?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vishnudharmotarapurana was supposed to be the authority for

deciding

> > the

> > > > days of festivals etc. in India during the sojourn of Alberuni

in

> > eleventh

> > > > century And this is what that Vishnudharmotara has to say,

again,

> > being

> > > > quoted from BVB6.doc itself

> > > >

> > > > Vishnurhdarmotarapurana 3/8/6-8 says

> > > >

> > > > tula meshagate bhanav vishuvad dinam uchete,

> > > >

> > > > dhanvato mithunantashcha ayane soasya dakshine,

> > > >

> > > > " When the sun is in Mesha and Tula, they are the days of Vishuva

> > i.e. days

> > > > and nights are equal then. From the end of Dhanu (start of

Makara)

> > > > Uttarayana starts and from the end of Mithuna (start of Karkata)

> > Dakshniyana

> > > > starts "

> > > >

> > > > The same Vishnudharmotara has said in 3/9/4-5

> > > >

> > > > .chaitro madhur-iti smritah,

> > > >

> > > > vaishakho madhavah proktah, shuchir jyeshthah udahritah

> > > >

> > > > shuklah proktastatha ashado nabhah shravan ishyete,

> > > >

> > > > praushthapado nabhasyashcha ishashch ashvayujah smritah

> > > >

> > > > urjakhyah kartikah prokto margshirshah sahastatha

> > > >

> > > > sahasya paush ityukto maghah syat tap eva cha

> > > >

> > > > phalgunashcha tapasyakhyo maso.

> > > >

> > > > " (i) Chaitra is known as Madhu (or Madhu is known as Chaitra)!

(ii)

> > > > Vaishakha as Madhava; (iii) Jyeshtha as Shuchih; (iv) Ashadha as

> > Shuklah (or

> > > > Shukrah); (v) Nabhah as Shravana; (vi) Praushthapada

(Bhadrapada) as

> > > > Nabhasya; (vii) Ashvayuja (Ashvina) as Ishah; (viii) Urja as

> > Kartika; (ix)

> > > > Margashirsha as Saha; (x) Sahasya as Pausha; (xi) Magha as Tapah

and

> > (xii)

> > > > Phalguna as Tapasya. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Why can't you see that exactly on the pattern of the Vedanga

> > Jyotisha,

> > > > Vishndudharmotara has named Chaitra as Madhu and so on. IT THUS

> > PROVES

> > > > WITHOUT DOUT THAT THE RAMANAVMI I.E. THE FESTIVAL OF BIRTH OF

> > BHAGWAN RAM

> > > > MUST BE CELEBRATED IN THE MONTH OF MADHU, SINCE THAT IS JUST

ANOTHER

> > NAME OF

> > > > CHAITRA. YOU MAY AS WELL SAY THAT CHAITRA ITSELF IS ANOTHER NAME

OF

> > MADHU.

> > > > You must therefore understand it once for all there are no so

called

> > > > nirayana Magha or Chaitra etc. lunar months either! And

obviously,

> > we are

> > > > not celebrating even Ramanavmi on correct days, thanks to the

> > nirayana mess!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > What other proofs do you want from the Puranas that they had

> > absolutely no

> > > > idea about any so called nirayana Rashichakra?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Now coming to the Surya Sidhanta, which I have quoted in

BVB6.doc.

> > and here

> > > > it is what I have said

> > > >

> > > > Lest there be any doubt as to what type of Rashis the Surya

Sidhanta

> > is

> > > > talking about, it makes it clear in Bhugoladhyaya, verses 57 to

62:

> > > >

> > > > meshadav to sada vridhir udaguttarto adhika

> > > >

> > > > devamshe cha kshapa hanir vipareetam tatha asure

> > > >

> > > > tuladav dyunishorvamam kshyay vridhav tayorubhe

> > > >

> > > > deshkranti vashan nitem tadvigyanam puroditam

> > > >

> > > > ayanante vilomena devasur vibhagayoh

> > > >

> > > > nadi shashtya sakrid ahar nishapi asmin sakrit

> > > >

> > > > tadantare api shashtyante kshayvridhav ahar-nishoh

> > > >

> > > > parto vipareeto ayam bhagolah parivartate.

> > > >

> > > > " During the half revolution beginning with Mesha, there is

always an

> > excess

> > > > of day to the north, in the hemisphere of the gods i.e.

> > Uttarayana---greater

> > > > according to distance north---and a corresponding deficiency of

the

> > night.

> > > > In the hemisphere of the demons (Dakshinayana), the reverse. In

the

> > half

> > > > revolution beginning with Libra (Tula) both the deficiency and

> > excess of day

> > > > and night in the two hemispheres are the opposite of this. The

> > method of

> > > > determining them, which is always dependent upon situation

(desha)

> > and

> > > > declination (kranti), has been before explained.

> > > >

> > > > " There occurs once, at the end of the sun's half revolution from

> > > > solstice to solstice---(Uttarayana to Dakshinayana) a day of

sixty

> > nadis and

> > > > a night of the same length mutually opposed to one another, in

the

> > two

> > > > hemispheres of the gods and of the demons. In the intermediate

> > region, the

> > > > deficiency and excess of day and night are within the limit of

sixty

> > nadis

> > > > beyond this sphere of asterisms (bha) revolves perversely " .

> > (Burgess'

> > > > translation).

> > > >

> > > > Two things are clear from the above to even a layman with a bit

> > > > of knowledge of geography of primary school level about the

> > phenomenon of

> > > > seasons: i) It is only around March 21 (Spring Equinox) Mesha

> > Sankranti

> > > > every year that day and night are equal and the length of day in

the

> > > > northern hemisphere starts increasing as compared to the length

of

> > night.

> > > >

> > > > As such, what nirayana are you talking about?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > To remove the cobwebs from the minds of people like you who

> > deliberately

> > > > keep on twisting every statement because of their ulterior

motives,

> > I had

> > > > even quoted from TANTRALOKA of one of the greatest Shaiva

Scholars,

> > mystics

> > > > and yogis of India viz. Acharya Abhinavagupta of tenth century

AD,

> > together

> > > > with the Sanskrit commentary of Jayaratha of twelfth century AD,

and

> > here is

> > > > that quote

> > > >

> > > > 6. To clinch the issue on the basis of Agama i.e. yogashastras,

I

> > > > will quote the master-yogi i.e. Acharya Abhinavgupta's

Tantraloka:

> > 6/114-116

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > shatsu shatsu anguleshu arko hridayat makaradishu

> > > >

> > > > tishthan maghadikam shatkam kuryat tat-chotarayanam

> > > >

> > > > sankranti tritaye vrite bhukte chashtadashangule

> > > >

> > > > mesham prapte ravav punyam vishuvat par laukikam

> > > >

> > > > praveshe tu tulasthe arke tadev vishuvad bhavet

> > > >

> > > > Ih sidhi pradam chaitat dakshinayan-gam tatah

> > > >

> > > > The translation of these mantras, as per the commentary of

Jayaratha

> > is,

> > > > (Linking yogic kriyas to seasons, it says, " After every six

ungalas

> > from the

> > > > hirdaya (the pranas go to) Makara etc. and make Magha etc. six

such

> > months

> > > > from Uttarayana starting with sun's transit into Makara. From

Makra

> > to

> > > > Mithuna is Uttarayana and in Magha sun transits Makara Rashi so

till

> > Ashada

> > > > when the sun transits Mithuna, Uttarayana lasts, After having

> > crossed three

> > > > sankrantis (of Uttarayana)-eighteen unglas of Prana --= vishuvat

> > Sankranti

> > > > arrives. Because on that day of Mesha sankranti the days and

nights

> > are

> > > > equal throughout the world that is why it is known as vishuvat.

When

> > the

> > > > sun enters Tula it is vishuva again " .

> > > >

> > > > I do not think that there should be any doubt now in anybody's

mind

> > as to

> > > > how we are being taken for a ride by these panchanga-makers. Or

is

> > it that

> > > > those panchangakars themselves are being taken for a ride by

someone

> > else

> > > > either knowingly or unbeknown to them? In either case, it is

> > literally

> > > > killing our dharma. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Here also Makara is the month of Magha! And both are Sayana

since

> > six

> > > > months of Uttarayana start from the day of Makara Sankranti! And

> > that is in

> > > > twelfth century AD

> > > >

> > > > It means that whether it was 3000 BCE of the " fifth Veda " or

> > Parashara

> > > > Rishi, or twelfth century AD of Acharya Abhinvagupta or

Jayaratha,

> > there was

> > > > never even a whiff of so called nirayana mess in any of the

> > documents that

> > > > we have studied so far. What other proofs do you want?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I wonder whether you have marked in the above quotes from the

> > > > Vishnudharmotara or Vishnu Purana or Srimad Bhagavata or even

> > Tantraloka

> > > > etc. as to how meticulously they have replicated the intrinsic

so

> > called

> > > > sayana rashis of the Surya Sidhanta!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > What other proofs does anybody want for the fact that Rashis in

the

> > Puranas

> > > > etc. appeared only after the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha

had

> > appeared

> > > > on the scene?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Obviously, I have started doubting your intentions since in

spite of

> > such

> > > > clear quotes from the puranas and other shastras and sidhantas,

you

> > are

> > > > still talking of some non-existent so called nirayana rashis and

> > nirayana

> > > > Chaitra etc. months! Is that the service you claim to be

rendering

> > to Hindu

> > > > dharma, since it is not only that you do not want the Hindu

> > community to

> > > > celebrate festivals as per the Vedic ethos, when there were no

Mesha

> > etc.

> > > > rashis, but you are just deliberately and willfully ignoring the

> > > > admonishments of Puranas and Tantra and yoga shastras, apart

from

> > Primary

> > > > School level geography that if at all you have to choose Rashis

for

> > > > festivals etc., they have to be so called sayana!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Jai Shri Ram

> > > >

> > > > A K Kaul

> > > >

> > > > HinduCalendar , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear shri Kaulji,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > <By studying the Bhagavata, Vishnu Purana. Shiva P:urana, Linga

> > Purana,

> > > > Vishnudharmotara Purana etc. etc. besides the Surya Sidhanta

> > etc.sidhantas.>

> > > > Does it never occur to you that instead of makar sankranti being

> > purely

> > > > sayan,the the Bhagavata,puranas etc. could mean just that it is

the

> > nirayan

> > > > sankranti (first day of the solar month of maagha, when the sun

> > falls on

> > > > nirayan

> > > > makar rashi) which falls nearest to the sayan uttarayan,the

actual

> > shortest

> > > > day,

> > > > when it says 'makar sankranti is uttarayan'. If not, why it

cannot

> > be so?

> > > > Was it not the same system in vedanga jyotish also, that the

first

> > day of

> > > > the

> > > > amanta lunar month of maagha designated the uttaryan, although

> > uttaryan fell

> > > > sometime before and sometime after maagha sukla pratipada? Was

> > maagha sukla

> > > > pratipada not the civil celebration date for uttaryan? Did they

> > every year

> > > > calculate or measured the shortest day when uttarayan or the new

> > year was to

> > > > be

> > > > celebrated?

> > > > How do you explain, the statement of Barahmihir in his Brihad

> > samhita,

> > > > Adityacharadhyaya, the first sloka: 'Aslesharhat...'etc. where

it is

> > > > mentioned

> > > > about shifting of sun in the beginning of dhanistha to sun in

makar

> > > > sankranti

> > > > as uttaryan.If it was only sayan it need not be shifted all at

once,

> > seven

> > > > padas

> > > > of nakshyatras. Does it not occur to you that nirayan solar

uttaryan

> > was

> > > > shifted

> > > > from the sun in dhanistha position to sun in makar sankranti

> > position? Have

> > > > you

> > > > dealt about these points in your BVB6.doc? Thanks in advance for

> > your

> > > > consideration of these points.

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Hari malla

> > > >

> > > > HinduCalendar

> > > >

> >

<HinduCalendar/post?postID=SQRPr3rKxM1MkZ6\

\

\

> > _6_t

> > > >

> >

y-VQxaDeRIuHYGOwlaggeyvyHQ9GpHOJBOREFwJCsytN9aLqAwHIAUHmxd-LNW32bil8unw>

> > ,

> > > > " Krishen " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri Hari Malla ji,

> > > > > Jai Shri Ram!

> > > > > <how did you ever conclude that 'makar sankranti is the start

of

> > > > > uttaryan' means A sayan expression>

> > > > > By studying the Bhagavata, Vishnu Purana. Shiva P:urana, Linga

> > Purana,

> > > > > Vishnudharmotara Purana etc. etc. besides the Surya Sidhanta

etc.

> > > > > sidhantas. Obvioiusly, you have not gone through BVB6.doc

---or is

> > it

> > > > > that you are keeping your ears deliberately closed to the

> > admonishments

> > > > > of scriptures?

> > > > >

> > > > > <when you have been celebrating all the makar sankrantis in

your

> > > > > lifetime as nirayan>

> > > > > I believed Vijayeshwar Jantri of J & K blindly, since that was

the

> > only

> > > > > jantri/panchanga in Kashmir then and it had been going on for

a

> > couple

> > > > > of centuries! It was based on Grahalaghava, as that was the

> > easiest

> > > > > work from which to prepare jantris/panchangas!

> > > > >

> > > > > It " advised " me my " rashiphal " and " amdani aur kharch ka

naksha "

> > etc.

> > > > > ec. apart from of course Tekini-milnavuni i.e. horoscopoe

matching

> > and

> > > > > what not! It even contains " navagraha patha " for sade-sati

etc.

> > etc.

> > > > > But as the saying goes, " subah ka bhoola agar sham ko ghar

vapas

> > aa jaye

> > > > > to usko bhoola mat samajhna " --- which would mean something

like,

> > > > > " Bettern late than never " .

> > > > >

> > > > > <AM I WRONG IN SAYING SO>

> > > > > No! Absolutely not! But you are certainly wrong if you want me

to

> > > > > continue to follow a system of celebrating festivals which is

> > neither

> > > > > Vedic nor Pauranic nor sidhantic AND ABOVE ALL NOT EVEN AS PER

> > PRIMARY

> > > > > SCHOOL LEVEL GEOGRAPHY!

> > > > > Others may have some axe to grind to continue celebrating

> > festivals on

> > > > > wrong days, but as far as I am concerned, I want that the only

axe

> > that

> > > > > any Hindu has to grind must be to celebrate festivals on

correct

> > days,

> > > > > for which purpose they will have to eliminate the use of Mesh,

> > Vrisha

> > > > > etc. rashis completely from their vocabulary!

> > > > > I am sure you will not switch over to the correct system in

spite

> > of

> > > > > your having realized that you are following a worng system!

You

> > will

> > > > > continue to follow the same---although in a different garb of

> > fiteen

> > > > > degrees plus and fifteen degrees minus--- and advise others

also

> > to

> > > > > continue to do so! And you know as well as I know as to why

you

> > will

> > > > > continue your efforts in that )mis-)direction.

> > > > > Jai Shri Ram

> > > > > A K Kaul

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---