The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet - H Mall & Kaul Ji

[Guest guest]

Dear H Malla,

 

What's the issue that you are trying to find out in statement made by

Sunil Bhattacharya, That what you are saying a " shift " is actually is a

shift of recognition only. You both are essentially saying same thing -

 

/*

 

We don't have to shift anything. We have only to recognise what is what.

Now

the Uttarayana starts when the Sun is in the Dhanu Rashi, ie. before the

Makar

Sankranti. In Varahamihira's time the Uttarayana started in the

beginning of the

Makar Rashi.

 

*/

 

In the Nakshatra Sukta count begins with Kritika, whole framework is

moving, It's a dynamic world, what's the grudge that we tend to carry

on.

 

Our sages have said - " CharaiVeti CharaiVeti .... Keep Moving , Keep

Moving ... "

 

" Ayam Atma Brahma ... " - ...... Me (Ayam) is Brahma !!

 

Mantra No. # 452, The SamVedic Rishi says that he is the one who sets

universe in his descipline -

 

|| Ima Nu Kam Bhuvana Seesh-Dhem-Endrascha Vishve Devaah ||

 

Let's be capable, World is waiting for us ........ Our PM has done

mourning in US, perhapse, US and Pakistan govt will restrain terrorism

...

 

Who will restrain Naxals ..... will he goto China for another round of

mourning, Let's recognize incapability is not intellectuality, Let's be

brave as Vedas said.

 

regards,

Utkal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " hari " <harimalla wrote:

>

> Dear Bhattacharyaji and RAjji,

> Let us please discuss this issue jointly.I find it difficult to

explain what I mean to Bhattacharyaji.Thus I request shree RAjji also to

join us here. I had said in my previous mail as follows:

>

> <Can you please explain what is meant by 'utttayan occurs when sun is

in dhanistha or sun is in makar sanrkanti' at different times of our

history.If they could be separated what was the necessity to shift the

nirayan utttaryan from sun in dhanistha to sun in makar sankranti. If

acoording to you indepeendant existaence of the two was OK, we could

have as well continued with sun in dhanistha position of uttrayan even

today. Why do you think they shifted it to makar sankranti as mentioned

by Barhamihir.>

> Let me further clarify my own statement.My intention ws that

Barahmihir has mentioned in his Brihad Samhita, chapter

Adityacharadhyaya that in the olden days uttaryan occurred in dhanistha

because it was true those days, but by his time uttaryan had come to

makar sankranti. Sinc we are using makar sankranti even now as the

'nirayan' uttarayan,he did shift the nirayan uttarayan of vedanga

jyotish,ie 'sun in dhannitatha' to the nirayan uttarayan as 'makar

sankranti' which is continued even till this day.

>

> But shri Bhattacharyaji has replied thus:

> <We don't have to shift anything. We have only to recognise what is

what. Now the Uttarayana starts when the Sun is in the Dhanu Rashi, ie.

before the Makar Sankranti. In Varahamihira's time the Uttarayana

started in the beginning of the Makar Rashi. Ask any astronomer and he

will confirm this. Varahamihira did not have to change anything except

changing the mindset of the (intellectually) blind people.>

> Now my intention is that Barahmihir did not only change the mind set

of the blind people, but he shifted the nirayan uttarayan from the 'sun

in dhaninstha'position to the 'sun in makar sankranti'position. Shri

Rajji, Please give your opinion if I am right or not.

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

>

>

>

> , Sunil Bhattacharjya

sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:

> >

> > Shri Harimallaji,

> >

> > 1)

> > Uttarayana means the period of six month of the northern course of

the Sun. The Makar Sankranti is observed in Uttarayana even now

though the start of the Uttarayana is before the Makar sankranti. During

the period of Vedanga Jyotisha the Uttarayana started in the first haif

of the Dhanistha Nakshatra ie. it occurred in the end of the Makar

Rashi. Thus at that time the Makar Sankramana occurred before the

start of the Uttarayana. Once explained a school boy will understand

this and I hope this will not be difficult for you to understand.

> > 2)

> > We don't have to shift anything. We have only to recognise what is

what. Now the Uttarayana starts when the Sun is in the Dhanu Rashi, ie.

before the Makar Sankranti. In Varahamihira's time the Uttarayana

started in the beginning of the Makar Rashi. Ask any astronomer and he

will confirm this. Varahamihira did not have to change anything except

changing the mindset of the (intellectually) blind people.

> > 3)

> > In the Brahmana of the Veda we find that at one time the

Mahashivaratri fell on the start of the Uttarayana, ie. on the first day

of the seasonal month of Tapas (and the astronomers will tell you that

this time period was in the third millennium BCE). These days it

does not fall on the day of the start of Uttarayana. Ask the schoolboy

(whom if you explain the above concept of Uttarayana) and he will tell

you that in the Vedic reference the calendar followed for the

Mahashivaratri was the Sidereal calendar and not the Seasonal calendar.

Darshaneyji, in spite of his good intentions prposed that in 2010 it

should be celebrated in 12 tapasya, which defies all logic. It is

neither according the Seasonal calendar nor according to the Sidereal

calendar. If he strictly follows the Seasonal calendar then he should

ask people to celebrate the Mahashivaratri on the Winter solstice day by

quoting the precedence in the Veda. Hope this will not be difficult

for

> > you to undertand this.

> >

> > You profess to be so knowledgeable so are you pretending not to

understand all these? If so please do not pretend and do not continue

this unnnecessary mails so that the Jyotishis do not get disturbed in

their main task of jyotish-discussions. I hope you do not like to

make unsubstantiated statements like Shri Kaul, who short-sightaedy does

all that just trying to win an argument.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Sat, 11/21/09, hari harimalla@ wrote:

> >

> > hari harimalla@

> > Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet

> >

> > Saturday, November 21, 2009, 12:35 AM

> >

> >

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> > Â

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> >

> > Dear Bhatachryaji,

> >

> > Can you please explain what is meant by 'utttayan occurs when sun is

in dhanistha or sun is in makar sanrkanti' at different times of our

history.If they could be separated what was the necessity to shift the

nirayan utttaryan from sun in dhanistha to sun in makar sankranti. If

acoording to you indepeendant existaence of the two was OK, we could

have as well continued with sun in dhanistha position of uttrayan even

today. Why do you think they shifted it to makar sankranti as mentioned

by Barhamihir.What was the need if your independant theory of sayan and

nirayan was acceptable.

> >

> > Please note that nowadays Shiva ratri is not linked with winter

solstice at all.That may have been an old concept which has no bearing

today. At present Shivaratri is at the mid point between winter

solstice,which is Poush purnima(designated by start of maagha snana) and

spring equinox which is Chaitra purnima (designated by Vaisakh snana).

> >

> > If you think coupling of the sayan and the nirayan concepts are not

needed then please explain why Vedanga jyotish had to coordinate the sun

in dhanistha position, uttarayan and also maagha sukla pratipada

together into one by thesixth sloka.Thus to be Vedic we have to

coordinate sayan sankranti, nirayan sankranti and the lunar tithi

together.Thanks.

> >

> > Hari Malla

> >

> >

> >

> > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Dear friends,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Everybody connected with calendar seems to avoid the

Mahashivaratri issue. This year in February 2009 we observed the

Mahashivaratri two months after the Winter Solstice in December

2008, whereas in the Kaushitaki Brahman the Shivaratri coincided with

the Winter solstice. This is a clear case of ignoring the Sayana

calendar for observing one of the most important festival of the Hindus.

If one respects the Vedas and the Vedic calendar then any

proposedcalendar should be able to explain the growing distance between

the date of the Winter Solstice and the date of the Mahashivararti.

Friends, who are genuinely interested in Vidic Calendar please wake up

and look at the case mentioned, which will tell you that the Sayana and

the Nirayana Calendars can coexist side by side without interfering with

each other. Approximately every 25,800 years the the angular

difference between the Sayana and the Nirayana positions will be

repeated. No compromise of any

> >

> > > sort will be required in Vedic calendar. A time will come when the

Mahashivaratri will again coincide with the Winter Solstice. Of course

you and me may not be there to see that happen.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Regards,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> > >

> >

> > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, hari <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > hari <harimalla@ ..>

> >

> > > Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Friday, November 20, 2009, 7:36 PM

> >

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> > > Dear Harry,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Kindly confirm if the vedic correlationship I have drawn is

satisfactory to you or not. Step by step we should proceed to arrive at

the correct way of reforming our vedic calendar. This correction is of

dire necessity now, since our populace are celebrating the festivals on

wrong days,say lagging one month behind the schedule.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > The lunar dates are controlled by the sidereal sankrantis as you

must be well knowing. But for them to get the actual seasonal value

these same tithis must also touch the sayan dates. For example, during

the sidhanta jyotish period,poush purnima was the uttaryan tithi which

is the celebrations dates even today, and during the vedanga jyotiish

period maagha sukla pratipada was the uttaryan tithi. Although they were

related to the makar sankanti and the sun in dhanistha positions

respectively, both of which are nirayan dates, they also touched the

sayan uttarayan dates and got the true tropical values as well in a

coordinated manner during the repective epochs.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > But now since poush purnima does not touch the actual uttrayan

date, this makes it necesssary to correct our vedic calendar again as

was done before, as mentioned by Brahmihir in his Brihad samhita.He has

said 'In the old scriptures it is mentioned that uttarayan occurs when

the sun was in dhanistha nakshyatra, because it was true those days. But

now uttrayan occurs when the sun is in makar sankranti, which can be

verified practically. ' Thus by shifting the sidereal uttarayan to makar

sankranti and the uttarayan tithi to poush purnima, which is evident by

the shift of maagha snana,the coordination of the tropical uttaryan date

and the sidereal utrarayan date by the respective tithi was maintained

after reformation those days, say less than two thousand years ago.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Should we also not do the reformation in the same way, to satisfy

the vedic coordination clause specified by the sixth sloka of yajur

vedang jyotish is my question.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Please give your valuable suggestion. Thank you,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Regards

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Hari Malla

> >

> > >

> >

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> > >

> >

> > > , " Harry " <harishkumar09@

....> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Dear Hari Malla,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > It is the Sayana system that is truly Vedic and thats exactly

what the Rishi's used. The Nirayana system is non-vedic. Its not based

on proper understanding of the Vedic Sacrifice. Sri Aurobindo came to

give the correct interpretation of the Veda. And in the Aurobindo Ashram

and also in Auroville only Sayana system is used. Only the tropical

zodiac is the correct system.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Regards,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Harish Kumar.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > , " hari " <harimalla@>

wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Dear Harishkumar ji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > The intention of PNB may be correct as far as our calenar has

gone out of tract. But taking the sayan system is not a vedic

suggestion, it is the Gregorian suggestion. The vedic suggestion would

be to maintain the nirayan saytem and yet reform our calendar the vedic

way.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > This can easily be done by shifting our time frame by one

whole month, so that our present Chaitra becoems the new Vaisakh or the

present Meen sankranti becomes the new epochal Mesh sankranti. By this

way the calendar is both reformed and the current nirayan system remains

as it is. This method is the coordination of the concepts of two

stalwarts of the nieteeth century- Bala ganagdhar Tilak and Shakar BK

Dikshit.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > This is the best way to reform our calendar.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Thanks,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Hari Malla

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > , " Harry " <harishkumar09@

> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Have the members of this group gone through the works of

Patrizia Norelli Bachelet(PNB) and her views on astrology ? She

advocates the Sayana Tropical Zodiac as the correct system. She traces

the problems of India to a faulty calender and states rectification of

it will make us perceive the Cosmic Harmonies which will bring forth the

Satya Yuga the Age of Truth. What has been lost is the perfect measure

of Time which needs to be retrieved. A resetting of the cosmic clock is

necessary according to her for us to See the Truth.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Clearly,its obvious to a child that Makara Sankranti should

be celebrated on 21 December on Winter Solstice day,the shortest day of

the year. But the current Nirayana system celebrates it 23 days later.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I give below a few useful links :

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > www.aeongroup. com

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > www.patrizianorelli bachelet. com

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > , " Harry " <harishkumar09@

....> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Dear Hari Malla,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > It is the Sayana system that is truly Vedic and thats exactly

what the Rishi's used. The Nirayana system is non-vedic. Its not based

on proper understanding of the Vedic Sacrifice. Sri Aurobindo came to

give the correct interpretation of the Veda. And in the Aurobindo Ashram

and also in Auroville only Sayana system is used. Only the tropical

zodiac is the correct system.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Regards,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Harish Kumar.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > , " hari " <harimalla@>

wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Dear Harishkumar ji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > The intention of PNB may be correct as far as our calenar has

gone out of tract. But taking the sayan system is not a vedic

suggestion, it is the Gregorian suggestion. The vedic suggestion would

be to maintain the nirayan saytem and yet reform our calendar the vedic

way.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > This can easily be done by shifting our time frame by one

whole month, so that our present Chaitra becoems the new Vaisakh or the

present Meen sankranti becomes the new epochal Mesh sankranti. By this

way the calendar is both reformed and the current nirayan system remains

as it is. This method is the coordination of the concepts of two

stalwarts of the nieteeth century- Bala ganagdhar Tilak and Shakar BK

Dikshit.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > This is the best way to reform our calendar.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Thanks,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Hari Malla

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > , " Harry " <harishkumar09@

> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Have the members of this group gone through the works of

Patrizia Norelli Bachelet(PNB) and her views on astrology ? She

advocates the Sayana Tropical Zodiac as the correct system. She traces

the problems of India to a faulty calender and states rectification of

it will make us perceive the Cosmic Harmonies which will bring forth the

Satya Yuga the Age of Truth. What has been lost is the perfect measure

of Time which needs to be retrieved. A resetting of the cosmic clock is

necessary according to her for us to See the Truth.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Clearly,its obvious to a child that Makara Sankranti should

be celebrated on 21 December on Winter Solstice day,the shortest day of

the year. But the current Nirayana system celebrates it 23 days later.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I give below a few useful links :

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > www.aeongroup. com

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > www.patrizianorelli bachelet. com

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

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