Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Shri Rohini Ranjanji, Jai Shri Ram! Many thanks for your well reasoned response. The main problem and reason of conflict between " Vedic astrology " and " Vedic calendar " is that the two are poles apart and that is why it is impossible to reconcile them! Let us take the case of Jaimini Astrology or Lal Kitab or Krishnamurti Paddhati or Taazika etc. etc. Quite a few people claim that they make correct predictions from those " paddhatis " or rashichakras etc. etc. I have studied almost all those paddhatis myself. As you might have observed, I have never raised even my little finger about those " dpaddhatis " , but that does not mean that I have found them okay in all respects. No. The simple reason for my silence about all those methodologies is that their practitioners do not call those methodologies “Vedic astrology” nor do they impinge at all on the celebration of festivals like Dipavali or Holi or even the so called Makar Sankranti! They do not insist that I must celebrate my Makar Sankranti only when they advise me to do so whereas " Vedic astrologers " want me to celebrate all the festivals as per a particular rashichakra---that also about half a dozen of them, making the confusion worst confounded, not because of their knowledge of dharmashastras or astronomy, whether siddhantic or modern, but that they cannot satisfy their clients if they claim to be making correct predictions from a Rashichakra which is not being used for celebrating festivals! There are no such pre-conditions with “non-vedic” methodologies! < Jyotish, for reasons good, bad or ugly -- have become associated with karma-kanda and pooja and so on and carries that cross on its shoulders but the two are not mutually inclusive!> The Vedanga Jyotisha by Acharya Lagadha is the Alpha of indigenous astronomical works. And the second and third mantra of Rik Jyotisham states clearly, " This kalanyanam is being expounded for deciding the proper timings of yajnyas " . The second and third mantra of Yajusha Jyotisham are all the more emphatic and precise when they state, " I will narrate to you the most respected (shastra) of brahmanas for deciding the timings of yajnyas and because of the same reasons, he who knows jyotisha (the methodology of calculating proper timings of yajnyas) knows the Vedas actually " . So there is absolutely no conflict between the real jyotisha shastra and the karma-kanda, which is a part of yajnyas. The same thing has been repeated in the Omega of Indian Siddhantic astronomy, viz Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhaskaracharya-II that the purpose of jyotisha is to decide proper timings of yajnyas. Thus the Alpha and Omega of indigenous jyotisha shastras emphasize that the only purpose of jyotisha shastra is to decide proper timings of " karma-kanda " and nothing else. So on that count you are not at all in conflict with the indigenous jyotirganitam but have full support from those texts. <Only someone who cares not one whit about astrology/jyotish would, despite personal claims of successful predictions, would avoid the very fundamental tenets of Jyotish that recommend that we look at the chart of the epoch and its qualities (birth chart, yogas and other factors) and then combine those with the proper dasas and transits to arrive at the fuller picture! > As seen above, the Alpha and Omega of Indigenous astronomical works have said that the only purpose of jyotisha shastra is to decide proper timings of yajnyas i.e. rituals and not predictive astrology. There are other shastras also like the Manusmriti and the Mahabharata etc. that are against “nakshatra soochis” in no uncertain terms. As such in spite of my making some correct predictions in the past, it does not mean that I was on the right track then but what it means is “subah ka bhoola agar sham ko ghar vapas aajaye to usko bhoola mat samjho” Besides, to be honest to you and myself, my personal view about successful predictions is that predictions are accurate not because of the acumen of the jyotishi concerned but it is a matter of chance or at best, some " daivi kripa " . My maternal grandfather made correct predictions from horoscopes prepared from the most monstrous astronomical work viz. Grahalaghava, which is so called nirayana. He used Yogini dasha-bhuktis and that also without any bhukta-bhogya i.e. it was immaterial whether someone was born in say the first or the last part (pada) of kritiika nakshatra, his/her Ulka dasha would rule for six years at the time of birth and so on. Such methodology is neither scientific nor mathematical, but if his predictions did prove correct in spite of such wrong calculations, that means there were some other reasons behind the same! When I dabbled personally in phalita-jyotisha under the impression that it was a " Vedic science " , I found that I could make more correct predictions from so called Sayana Rashichakra and Secondary Progressions as against the most inaccurate nirayana Ghahalaghava rashichakra and yogini dasha bhukti used by my grandpa! For some time, I was thus swayed by the impression that I was practicing the real " Vedic astrology " which was nothing but so called sayana! But when I found no Mesha etc. rashis in the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisnham but only Madhu, Madhava etc. solar months to which were pegged Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. lunar months, I had to change my views. And to share another secret with you, not all my predictions proved correct on the basis of so called Sayana Rashichakra either, but the rate of success was a bit more than that of so called nirayana, and that also especially through the outermost planets viz. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto! As you might be aware, the last named has been disowned even by astronomers as a planet, but I found that planet to be yielding uncanny results if it had some hard aspects with personal points of a chart in Secondary Progressions or even in transits! Naturally, none of those " outer planets " can be called Vedic, which means the so called sayana astrology is also not Vedic! As such, my humble request to all the jyotishis is that they may use whatever ayanamsha or method9ology or planets or rashichakra etc. they want to for their predictive skills, but they must delink their rashis and planets etc. etc. completely from the real Vedic calendar, because the real Vedic calendar does not have any Rashis but only Madhu, Madhava etc. solar months and Krittika, Rohini etc. nakshtras and the four cardinal points apart from lunar months that are pegged to seasonal solar months. If at all any rashis are a must for calendar purposes, they are Pauranic, and the problem with jyotishis is that the Pauranic Rashis are sayana instead of nirayana, since those Pauranic rashis are based on the Surya Sidhanta! As such, nirayna jyotishsis just turn a blind eye to all those puranas deliberately! If you are really interested in the nuances of Hindu calendar vis-à-vis Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Krittika etc. nakshatras, I suggest you join hinducalendar where posts are not moderated at all, and contrarian views are really welcome, since the aim of that forum is to arrive at Truth and nothing but Truth about the tenets of the real Hindu/Vedic calendar. You will find quite a few papers in the files section there and after going through those files, we can compare notes. Pl. rest assured that I feel no embarrassment in changing my views if they are proved to be contrary to shastras or even astronomical facts and I acknowledge openly my gratefulness to such gurus/teachers since they have corrected my wrong notions! One of such gurus is Shri Paul Kekaye Manansala, who pointed out the fact that sayana rashis and krittika etc. nakshatras could not go together, (even if we had been doing so in India till about a couple of centuries back, as shown by Alberuni in his Alberuni’s India) and that was a turning point in my thinking about phalita jyotisha as well as calendar reform. Jai Shri Ram! A K Kaul Jai Shri Ram! A K Kaul , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Leaving all belief and faith etc aside, Kaul Saheb, all are forgetting the FUNDAMENTAL thing! > > What do these solstices and equinoxes and other TRANSITIONS of Sun or other planets really amount to? In terms of individual experiencing? > > I am sure, some of us might be able to relate a few experiences which were significant and connected with such transitions -- as viewed from the Earth, but does that really prove anything? > > From a practical ASTROLOGICAL (as opposed to astronomical machinations and meanderings which seem to have distracted and hi-jacked modern Jyotish more than such meanderings are worth!) perspective, while many jyotishis (and astrologers of other cloths and beliefs) pay hommage to transits of Sun and moon or whatever, such isolated focii of attention are deceptive and misleading! > > Jyotish, at least, has -- at least to HER serious and sincere observers -- constituted more than just transits! Which is all that these apparent sankrantis etc of our STAR, the SUN represents. Sun, by the way, is now being recognized as the primary determinator of climate change, now that the politics of scientists who created the confusion about Global warming has emerged! How interesting! Just when the massive communal debilitated state of planets is reversing and with their clouds lifting, the LIGHT is beginning to shine once again! > > Jyotish, for reasons good, bad or ugly -- have become associated with karma-kanda and pooja and so on and carries that cross on its shoulders but the two are not mutually inclusive! > > Only someone who cares not one whit about astrology/jyotish would, despite personal claims of successful predictions, would avoid the very fundamental tenets of Jyotish that recommend that we look at the chart of the epoch and its qualities (birth chart, yogas and other factors) and then combine those with the proper dasas and transits to arrive at the fuller picture! > > Rohiniranjan > > , " jyotirved " jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > Shri Darshaney Lokeshji, > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > In this age of internet, every imported Vamadeva is more than willing to > > teach us " Vedic astrology " for which he does not expect any remuneration > > from us. But as the saying goes, there are no free lunches! > > > > They are now teaching us even our dharmashastras, as to when to celebrate > > the punyakala of Uttarayana and so on even if they cannot read those > > dharmashastras upside down themselves! > > > > Personally, I think Hindus are more to be blamed for all such " free > > tuitions " since we are prepared to embrace any " sermon " in the name of > > " Vedic astrology " especially if it comes from some videshi! > > > > Take the case of Winter Solstice of 2009. As per page 151 of " Astronomical > > Tables of the Sun, Moon and Planets " by Jean Meeus (published by > > Willmann-Bell, Inc; USA, 1995) it is to take place on December 21, 2009 at > > 17 hrs 47mts 53 seconds, Dynamical Time. And as per Swiss Ephemeris, the > > solar longitude at that time will be 29 sa 59'59.9920. Thus it means that > > Jean Meeus is as correct as the Swiss Ephemeris. Let us cross check it with > > Vishnu.exe program in Hinducalendar forum. For that time on December 21, > > 2009, as per that program, the longitude of the sun is 270 degrees 0 mts. 1 > > second! In other words, Vishnu program is also as accurate as either of the > > above named programs/data! With an average rate of motion of one degree per > > day in case of the sun, it will not take more than 24 seconds for that > > luminary to cover one arc-second of longitude and that is an insignificant > > variation in a program that embraces a span of more than 22000 years from > > 10000 BCE to 12030 AD. > > > > With Delta Time on December 21, 2009 being about 70 seconds plus, the UT > > for that period is 17hrs 46 mts 43 seconds. By adding 5.5 hrs to the same > > as difference for UT and IST, we get 23 hrs 16 mts 43 sec IST. > > > > Thus whichever way we look at it, your assessment that the actual timing of > > Uttarayana is 11-17 pm IST on December 21, 2009 is quite correct! > > > > Now coming to Makar Sankranti! It has become a hammering rod for most of > > the videshis especially as the Hindus go into deliriums the moment they > > learn that some " foreigner " is also going to celebrate it! What Makar > > Sankranti are they talking about, they do not know it themselves actually! > > We have at least half a dozen very prominent Makar Sankrantis these days! > > There is (1) Surya Sidhanta (calculations) Makar Sankranti, a (ii) > > Grahalaghava Makar Sanrkanti, (ii) Lahiri Makar Sankranti, (iii) Ramana > > Makar Sankranti, (iv) Muladhara Makar Sankranti, (v) Raivata Paksha Makar > > Sankranti and so on! Then we have also another Makar Sankranti as per the > > Puranas, which is actually a ditto coy of the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > melccha, since that is actually nothing but a so called Sankranti based on > > Greco-Chaldean Astrology, which Western jyotishis are using these days. > > Actually, most of the videshi jyotishis, in order to increase the clientele > > of their Sayana jyotisha, do so on the shoulders of the same Makara > > Sankranti just as Lahiriwalas celebrate a Lahir Makar Sanrkanti in order to > > impress their clients about the accuracy of that Rashichakra! > > > > Dr. Wilkinson is perhaps confusing the Uttarayana for the same Pauranic > > Makar Sankranti! But his working out the timing is really surprising! On > > second thoughts, I do not think it is actually that surprising, since " Vedic > > astrologers " , whether Sayana or nirayana or imported or indigenous do not do > > any calculations themselves but they just go by computer programs for making > > horoscopes based on data from JPL/NASA! They have, as such, no idea about > > the difference in LMT and IST since what Dr. Wilkinson has done actually is > > he has not only calculated the Uttarayana Time wrong by ten minutes, since > > as against 11-17 PM IST he has calculated it for 11-07 PM IST and again > > made a " double whammy " of Local Time of Uttarayana, which he fancies to call > > Makar Sankranti, at a time that is less by 20 minutes from IST since > > Kodaikalnal has a longitude east of 77.29 degrees which is less by five > > degrees i.e. twenty minutes of time from the Central Station of India, > > wherefrom IST is calculated! > > > > Obviously, Dr. Wilkinson has no idea of the fact that then he will have to > > synchronize his watches also to Local Time of Kodaikanal, in order to > > celebrate a geocentric geographical phenomenon as per the Local time of a > > place in India instead of IST, but that will not change the timing of the > > phenomenon itself! > > > > Coming again to Makar Sanrkanti, if anybody, whether Lahiriwalas or > > Ramanawalas or Surya Sidhantawalas or even Sayanawalas want to celebrate the > > real Makar Sankranti of the Sun, they must do so on January 24, 2010 at 7hrs > > 15 mts. UT/GMT since the longitude of the sun will then be 304-11-17, which > > is the exact longitude of Beta Capricorni star on that date! > > > > That is the only date and time when the real " Makar Sankranti " of the sun > > will take place between January 2009 and January 2010! > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Calculation of Makar Sankranti > > > > > > > > Dear Robert ji, > > > > Namastey. > > > > I have checked the calculation and found correct. I wnat to see > > you something more indulged > > > > in this calculation and for that reason I am not giving you my explaination > > of required ''why''. > > > > " but I feel like we have the exact time. " I do not understand what > > do you mean by this > > > > sentense. You have used the word 'Darshany' as the verb 'done'. What type of > > english is this? More > > > > over my name is Darshaney and not Darshany. Darshaney means the son of Smt > > Darshani Devi i.e. it > > > > pertains to my respected mother's name also and for that, I wish if it could > > be spelled correctly. Would > > > > you...? > > > > Thanks for the interest. > > > > > > Darshaney Lokesh > > > > > > > > Robert Wilkinson robtw@ > > " skambha@ " skambha@; sai srinivasan > > saisrinivasan@; darshaneylokesh@ > > Sun, 22 November, 2009 11:16:32 PM > > Fw: Re: Calculation of Makar Sankranti > > > > Thea, > > I have been working on extrapolating the exact timing for the Winter > > Solstice at Skambha. The time that I sent earlier of 21/12 at 11:07 pm was > > based on Indian Standard Time which is calculated at Greenwich Time plus 5 ½ > > hours. If you figure that 1 hour of Time equals 15 degrees of Longitude, 5 ½ > > hours of time corresponds to a position 82.30 degrees of longitude East of > > Greenwich. Kodaikanal, as we know, is at 77.29 degrees longitude East of > > Greenwich, leaving a difference of -5 degrees. If 15 degrees of longitude > > equals 1 hour, then 5 degrees of longitude equals 1/3 of an hour or 20 > > minutes. Therefore, if we figure the exact moment of the Winter Solstice at > > Indian Standard Time (82.30 lon.) to be 21/12 at 11:07 pm, the timing at > > Skambha adjusted by -5 degrees lon. will be 20 minutes earlier on 21/12 > > 10:47 pm. You might have Darshany double check my figures but I feel like we > > have the exact time. > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Dear Kaul Saheb, Thanks for your sharing. I am sorry to read that you have had some discouraging/disappointing experiences with Jyotish and Jyotishis. Speaking for myself, personally, I have never considered jyotish as a science or scientific discipline, but more like a language, a descriptor of Human Experience. My perspectives and point of views appear in several articles available on Boloji/astro site and elsewhere in silico and in print, etc. I have also not worried about sementics and whether jyotish is Vaidik (a better spelling than 'vedic' -- the anglicised version) or multinational/multicultural or whatever! We are collectively and in significant numbers far from realizing or fully exploring what jyotish is or is not capable of. It is premature, in my opinion, to worry about its origins or tie our knickers in a knot over its 'purity' or pristine nascence! Regards, Rohiniranjan , " jyotirved " <jyotirved wrote: > > Shri Rohini Ranjanji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > Many thanks for your well reasoned response. > > The main problem and reason of conflict between " Vedic astrology " and " Vedic > calendar " is that the two are poles apart and that is why it is impossible > to reconcile them! > > Let us take the case of Jaimini Astrology or Lal Kitab or Krishnamurti > Paddhati or Taazika etc. etc. Quite a few people claim that they make > correct predictions from those " paddhatis " or rashichakras etc. etc. I have > studied almost all those paddhatis myself. As you might have observed, I > have never raised even my little finger about those " dpaddhatis " , but that > does not mean that I have found them okay in all respects. No. The simple > reason for my silence about all those methodologies is that their > practitioners do not call those methodologies " Vedic astrology " nor do they > impinge at all on the celebration of festivals like Dipavali or Holi or > even the so called Makar Sankranti! > > They do not insist that I must celebrate my Makar Sankranti only when they > advise me to do so whereas " Vedic astrologers " want me to celebrate all the > festivals as per a particular rashichakra---that also about half a dozen of > them, making the confusion worst confounded, not because of their knowledge > of dharmashastras or astronomy, whether siddhantic or modern, but that they > cannot satisfy their clients if they claim to be making correct predictions > from a Rashichakra which is not being used for celebrating festivals! > There are no such pre-conditions with " non-vedic " methodologies! > > < Jyotish, for reasons good, bad or ugly -- have become associated with > karma-kanda and pooja and so on and carries that cross on its shoulders but > the two are not mutually inclusive!> > > The Vedanga Jyotisha by Acharya Lagadha is the Alpha of indigenous > astronomical works. And the second and third mantra of Rik Jyotisham > states clearly, " This kalanyanam is being expounded for deciding the proper > timings of yajnyas " . The second and third mantra of Yajusha Jyotisham are > all the more emphatic and precise when they state, " I will narrate to you > the most respected (shastra) of brahmanas for deciding the timings of > yajnyas and because of the same reasons, he who knows jyotisha (the > methodology of calculating proper timings of yajnyas) knows the Vedas > actually " . So there is absolutely no conflict between the real jyotisha > shastra and the karma-kanda, which is a part of yajnyas. > > The same thing has been repeated in the Omega of Indian Siddhantic > astronomy, viz Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhaskaracharya-II that the purpose of > jyotisha is to decide proper timings of yajnyas. > > Thus the Alpha and Omega of indigenous jyotisha shastras emphasize that the > only purpose of jyotisha shastra is to decide proper timings of > " karma-kanda " and nothing else. So on that count you are not at all in > conflict with the indigenous jyotirganitam but have full support from those > texts. > > <Only someone who cares not one whit about astrology/jyotish would, despite > personal claims of successful predictions, would avoid the very fundamental > tenets of Jyotish that recommend that we look at the chart of the epoch and > its qualities (birth chart, yogas and other factors) and then combine those > with the proper dasas and transits to arrive at the fuller picture! > > > As seen above, the Alpha and Omega of Indigenous astronomical works have > said that the only purpose of jyotisha shastra is to decide proper timings > of yajnyas i.e. rituals and not predictive astrology. There are other > shastras also like the Manusmriti and the Mahabharata etc. that are against > " nakshatra soochis " in no uncertain terms. As such in spite of my making > some correct predictions in the past, it does not mean that I was on the > right track then but what it means is " subah ka bhoola agar sham ko ghar > vapas aajaye to usko bhoola mat samjho " > > Besides, to be honest to you and myself, my personal view about successful > predictions is that predictions are accurate not because of the acumen of > the jyotishi concerned but it is a matter of chance or at best, some " daivi > kripa " . My maternal grandfather made correct predictions from horoscopes > prepared from the most monstrous astronomical work viz. Grahalaghava, which > is so called nirayana. He used Yogini dasha-bhuktis and that also without > any bhukta-bhogya i.e. it was immaterial whether someone was born in say > the first or the last part (pada) of kritiika nakshatra, his/her Ulka dasha > would rule for six years at the time of birth and so on. > > Such methodology is neither scientific nor mathematical, but if his > predictions did prove correct in spite of such wrong calculations, that > means there were some other reasons behind the same! > > When I dabbled personally in phalita-jyotisha under the impression that it > was a " Vedic science " , I found that I could make more correct predictions > from so called Sayana Rashichakra and Secondary Progressions as against the > most inaccurate nirayana Ghahalaghava rashichakra and yogini dasha bhukti > used by my grandpa! For some time, I was thus swayed by the impression > that I was practicing the real " Vedic astrology " which was nothing but so > called sayana! > > But when I found no Mesha etc. rashis in the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisnham > but only Madhu, Madhava etc. solar months to which were pegged Chaitra, > Vaishakha etc. lunar months, I had to change my views. And to share another > secret with you, not all my predictions proved correct on the basis of so > called Sayana Rashichakra either, but the rate of success was a bit more > than that of so called nirayana, and that also especially through the > outermost planets viz. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto! As you might be aware, > the last named has been disowned even by astronomers as a planet, but I > found that planet to be yielding uncanny results if it had some hard aspects > with personal points of a chart in Secondary Progressions or even in > transits! > > Naturally, none of those " outer planets " can be called Vedic, which means > the so called sayana astrology is also not Vedic! > > As such, my humble request to all the jyotishis is that they may use > whatever ayanamsha or method9ology or planets or rashichakra etc. they want > to for their predictive skills, but they must delink their rashis and > planets etc. etc. completely from the real Vedic calendar, because the real > Vedic calendar does not have any Rashis but only Madhu, Madhava etc. solar > months and Krittika, Rohini etc. nakshtras and the four cardinal points > apart from lunar months that are pegged to seasonal solar months. If at all > any rashis are a must for calendar purposes, they are Pauranic, and the > problem with jyotishis is that the Pauranic Rashis are sayana instead of > nirayana, since those Pauranic rashis are based on the Surya Sidhanta! As > such, nirayna jyotishsis just turn a blind eye to all those puranas > deliberately! > > If you are really interested in the nuances of Hindu calendar vis-à-vis > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Krittika etc. nakshatras, I suggest you join > hinducalendar > > where posts are not moderated at all, and contrarian views are really > welcome, since the aim of that forum is to arrive at Truth and nothing but > Truth about the tenets of the real Hindu/Vedic calendar. You will find > quite a few papers in the files section there and after going through those > files, we can compare notes. > > Pl. rest assured that I feel no embarrassment in changing my views if they > are proved to be contrary to shastras or even astronomical facts and I > acknowledge openly my gratefulness to such gurus/teachers since they have > corrected my wrong notions! One of such gurus is Shri Paul Kekaye > Manansala, who pointed out the fact that sayana rashis and krittika etc. > nakshatras could not go together, (even if we had been doing so in India > till about a couple of centuries back, as shown by Alberuni in his > Alberuni's India) and that was a turning point in my thinking about phalita > jyotisha as well as calendar reform. > > Jai Shri Ram! > > A K Kaul > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > A K Kaul > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> > wrote: > > > > Leaving all belief and faith etc aside, Kaul Saheb, all are forgetting the > FUNDAMENTAL thing! > > > > What do these solstices and equinoxes and other TRANSITIONS of Sun or > other planets really amount to? In terms of individual experiencing? > > > > I am sure, some of us might be able to relate a few experiences which were > significant and connected with such transitions -- as viewed from the Earth, > but does that really prove anything? > > > > From a practical ASTROLOGICAL (as opposed to astronomical machinations and > meanderings which seem to have distracted and hi-jacked modern Jyotish more > than such meanderings are worth!) perspective, while many jyotishis (and > astrologers of other cloths and beliefs) pay hommage to transits of Sun and > moon or whatever, such isolated focii of attention are deceptive and > misleading! > > > > Jyotish, at least, has -- at least to HER serious and sincere observers -- > constituted more than just transits! Which is all that these apparent > sankrantis etc of our STAR, the SUN represents. Sun, by the way, is now > being recognized as the primary determinator of climate change, now that the > politics of scientists who created the confusion about Global warming has > emerged! How interesting! Just when the massive communal debilitated state > of planets is reversing and with their clouds lifting, the LIGHT is > beginning to shine once again! > > > > Jyotish, for reasons good, bad or ugly -- have become associated with > karma-kanda and pooja and so on and carries that cross on its shoulders but > the two are not mutually inclusive! > > > > Only someone who cares not one whit about astrology/jyotish would, despite > personal claims of successful predictions, would avoid the very fundamental > tenets of Jyotish that recommend that we look at the chart of the epoch and > its qualities (birth chart, yogas and other factors) and then combine those > with the proper dasas and transits to arrive at the fuller picture! > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , " jyotirved " jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > Shri Darshaney Lokeshji, > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > In this age of internet, every imported Vamadeva is more than willing to > > > teach us " Vedic astrology " for which he does not expect any remuneration > > > from us. But as the saying goes, there are no free lunches! > > > > > > They are now teaching us even our dharmashastras, as to when to > celebrate > > > the punyakala of Uttarayana and so on even if they cannot read those > > > dharmashastras upside down themselves! > > > > > > Personally, I think Hindus are more to be blamed for all such " free > > > tuitions " since we are prepared to embrace any " sermon " in the name of > > > " Vedic astrology " especially if it comes from some videshi! > > > > > > Take the case of Winter Solstice of 2009. As per page 151 of > " Astronomical > > > Tables of the Sun, Moon and Planets " by Jean Meeus (published by > > > Willmann-Bell, Inc; USA, 1995) it is to take place on December 21, 2009 > at > > > 17 hrs 47mts 53 seconds, Dynamical Time. And as per Swiss Ephemeris, the > > > solar longitude at that time will be 29 sa 59'59.9920. Thus it means > that > > > Jean Meeus is as correct as the Swiss Ephemeris. Let us cross check it > with > > > Vishnu.exe program in Hinducalendar forum. For that time on December 21, > > > 2009, as per that program, the longitude of the sun is 270 degrees 0 > mts. 1 > > > second! In other words, Vishnu program is also as accurate as either of > the > > > above named programs/data! With an average rate of motion of one degree > per > > > day in case of the sun, it will not take more than 24 seconds for that > > > luminary to cover one arc-second of longitude and that is an > insignificant > > > variation in a program that embraces a span of more than 22000 years > from > > > 10000 BCE to 12030 AD. > > > > > > With Delta Time on December 21, 2009 being about 70 seconds plus, the UT > > > for that period is 17hrs 46 mts 43 seconds. By adding 5.5 hrs to the > same > > > as difference for UT and IST, we get 23 hrs 16 mts 43 sec IST. > > > > > > Thus whichever way we look at it, your assessment that the actual timing > of > > > Uttarayana is 11-17 pm IST on December 21, 2009 is quite correct! > > > > > > Now coming to Makar Sankranti! It has become a hammering rod for most of > > > the videshis especially as the Hindus go into deliriums the moment they > > > learn that some " foreigner " is also going to celebrate it! What Makar > > > Sankranti are they talking about, they do not know it themselves > actually! > > > We have at least half a dozen very prominent Makar Sankrantis these > days! > > > There is (1) Surya Sidhanta (calculations) Makar Sankranti, a (ii) > > > Grahalaghava Makar Sanrkanti, (ii) Lahiri Makar Sankranti, (iii) Ramana > > > Makar Sankranti, (iv) Muladhara Makar Sankranti, (v) Raivata Paksha > Makar > > > Sankranti and so on! Then we have also another Makar Sankranti as per > the > > > Puranas, which is actually a ditto coy of the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > > melccha, since that is actually nothing but a so called Sankranti based > on > > > Greco-Chaldean Astrology, which Western jyotishis are using these days. > > > Actually, most of the videshi jyotishis, in order to increase the > clientele > > > of their Sayana jyotisha, do so on the shoulders of the same Makara > > > Sankranti just as Lahiriwalas celebrate a Lahir Makar Sanrkanti in order > to > > > impress their clients about the accuracy of that Rashichakra! > > > > > > Dr. Wilkinson is perhaps confusing the Uttarayana for the same Pauranic > > > Makar Sankranti! But his working out the timing is really surprising! On > > > second thoughts, I do not think it is actually that surprising, since > " Vedic > > > astrologers " , whether Sayana or nirayana or imported or indigenous do > not do > > > any calculations themselves but they just go by computer programs for > making > > > horoscopes based on data from JPL/NASA! They have, as such, no idea > about > > > the difference in LMT and IST since what Dr. Wilkinson has done actually > is > > > he has not only calculated the Uttarayana Time wrong by ten minutes, > since > > > as against 11-17 PM IST he has calculated it for 11-07 PM IST and again > > > made a " double whammy " of Local Time of Uttarayana, which he fancies to > call > > > Makar Sankranti, at a time that is less by 20 minutes from IST since > > > Kodaikalnal has a longitude east of 77.29 degrees which is less by five > > > degrees i.e. twenty minutes of time from the Central Station of India, > > > wherefrom IST is calculated! > > > > > > Obviously, Dr. Wilkinson has no idea of the fact that then he will have > to > > > synchronize his watches also to Local Time of Kodaikanal, in order to > > > celebrate a geocentric geographical phenomenon as per the Local time of > a > > > place in India instead of IST, but that will not change the timing of > the > > > phenomenon itself! > > > > > > Coming again to Makar Sanrkanti, if anybody, whether Lahiriwalas or > > > Ramanawalas or Surya Sidhantawalas or even Sayanawalas want to celebrate > the > > > real Makar Sankranti of the Sun, they must do so on January 24, 2010 at > 7hrs > > > 15 mts. UT/GMT since the longitude of the sun will then be 304-11-17, > which > > > is the exact longitude of Beta Capricorni star on that date! > > > > > > That is the only date and time when the real " Makar Sankranti " of the > sun > > > will take place between January 2009 and January 2010! > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Calculation of Makar Sankranti > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Robert ji, > > > > > > Namastey. > > > > > > I have checked the calculation and found correct. I wnat to see > > > you something more indulged > > > > > > in this calculation and for that reason I am not giving you my > explaination > > > of required ''why''. > > > > > > " but I feel like we have the exact time. " I do not understand what > > > do you mean by this > > > > > > sentense. You have used the word 'Darshany' as the verb 'done'. What > type of > > > english is this? More > > > > > > over my name is Darshaney and not Darshany. Darshaney means the son of > Smt > > > Darshani Devi i.e. it > > > > > > pertains to my respected mother's name also and for that, I wish if it > could > > > be spelled correctly. Would > > > > > > you...? > > > > > > Thanks for the interest. > > > > > > > > > Darshaney Lokesh > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert Wilkinson robtw@ > > > " skambha@ " skambha@; sai srinivasan > > > saisrinivasan@; darshaneylokesh@ > > > Sun, 22 November, 2009 11:16:32 PM > > > Fw: Re: Calculation of Makar Sankranti > > > > > > Thea, > > > I have been working on extrapolating the exact timing for the Winter > > > Solstice at Skambha. The time that I sent earlier of 21/12 at 11:07 pm > was > > > based on Indian Standard Time which is calculated at Greenwich Time plus > 5 ½ > > > hours. If you figure that 1 hour of Time equals 15 degrees of Longitude, > 5 ½ > > > hours of time corresponds to a position 82.30 degrees of longitude East > of > > > Greenwich. Kodaikanal, as we know, is at 77.29 degrees longitude East of > > > Greenwich, leaving a difference of -5 degrees. If 15 degrees of > longitude > > > equals 1 hour, then 5 degrees of longitude equals 1/3 of an hour or 20 > > > minutes. Therefore, if we figure the exact moment of the Winter Solstice > at > > > Indian Standard Time (82.30 lon.) to be 21/12 at 11:07 pm, the timing at > > > Skambha adjusted by -5 degrees lon. will be 20 minutes earlier on 21/12 > > > 10:47 pm. You might have Darshany double check my figures but I feel > like we > > > have the exact time. > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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