Guest guest Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 HinduCalendar , darshaney lokesh <darshaneylokesh wrote: Shri hari Malla ji,     Namestey.     Since, myself interested in truth and truth alone I’d like to clarify a few things to you,  1-True panchanga can never be either sayan or nirayan or both or neither. Actually a panchanga (hence forth called as tithi patrak, it being more appropriate nomenclature) has nothing to do with Ayanamsha (what so ever it’s value may be) resulting from precession of equinoxes, as against common thinking.        2-You have been talking a lot of about coordinative approach. For coordination we must have at least two  things which needs to be coordinated having at least one point in common at which the things are to be coordinated. Plz Let me know, the things you are interested in coordinating and the common point of coordination. 3-  Your logic regarding oldness of a custom is also not valid since this  is the argument on wich Gaililio was trailed. At so may phases this argument has harmed the humanity very much. That is the reason that  Kalidas had to say,â€Puranmittev na saadhu sarvam. .†An old custom, just because of its oldness, ca not be carried forward at least after getting known of its correctness.The same has been done for quite a few old customs. We have touched one of those. 4-The word “lunar season†in itself is a misnomer as “vandhya putra†( son of a vandhya lady). The word “lunar season†has got zero meaning. I hope you understand the meaning of meaning. 5-Truth is alone; there can not be two ways to choose from. Truth is not a matter of choice. It is as such “tat twam asiâ€. When we choose, we choose either the most suitable or the least objectionable. Truth is neither that which is most suitable nor that which is most objectionable. 6-Definitely working together saves time. I request you to have a look of Shri Mohan Krity Aarsh Tithi Patrak. We too are looking forward for your cooperation if you come with your self amended form for which you require to follow some important   following points.. 7- I have put my mathematical explaination before all erudites. You have not touched that but still talking ‘nirayana’, ‘sayana’ due to your ‘nirayan attachments (Moh)’ and ‘sayana hate (vair)’as is evident from your statement,â€Since you are also a man interested in the truth, may I request you to let people know of the alternate method to reform our calendar by the coordinative system, where the panchanga remains nirayan as it is the old custome“. Therefore, so far these two words are fetched in to the  brain   you may not be free from such ‘raag-dwesh’. You do not know that basing ‘ayanamsha’ right from 0 to 360 degrees will give relative measures only. E.g. Kathmandumay be at the distance of 10,100,500,1000 or any more Kms but from where? That ‘where’ talks of your ayanamsha. For true idea of it’s location, you will have to talk interms of Latitude and Longitudes. In this way zodical measurements are needed to be given on the basis of ‘Shar’ and ‘bhogamsha’ and initial ‘shar and bhogamshas’ are zero/zero. This ‘zero’ is free from the bases of your raag and dwesh. Ok? It is that raag and dwesh only due to which your replies are always- 1> Haste written and 2> Not proper since you do not even read the mail completely. 8 †" See your advise (what type of advise is this that  looks like an order?),â€I am advising him to give another alternative to the public and quote the availability of the nirayana method too.†Sorry dear friend, I have calculated and framed the correct vedic calendar which is the outcome of my longest devotion of years together. It is not the mere matter of,†Since you are also a man interested in the. . .†but devotion of years together This language of your’s is very cheaper way for under rating my ‘total devotion’. If you do not amend yourself then I will have to amend myself by neglecting your mails. I am sure, By this way, we would save at least our time from being wasted.  9- You have been talking a lot about the Sun being in Dhanishta at Uttarayan/Makar samkranti during VJ period. In his latest mail Shri Bhattacharya has also put some valid arguments. Can you please clearify if VJ people were able to Sun and Dhanishta simultaneously? Generally we can not see any star, other than the Sunwhile Sun is in the sky.If otherwise, then what is the meaning of Sun at Uttarayan/Makarsamkranti in Dhanishta.Is it that Dhanishta was rising in east during the said samkranti or is it that Dhanishta was at Mid-haeaven in the night of that event? What else?      Hari ji, Nakshtras ar primarily related to moon and its’ orbital path and hence seen and recorded in relation to moon alone. Sun’s relation to nakshtrais depicted with the rising of stars at evening or early morning after tropical event like Vasant Sampat etc e.g. Margsheersh name of the star  signifies its’ importance. The star is supposed to be the sheers (i.e. head or the starting point )of the path of the Sun arrounf Earthwas the star rising in east after VE during early vedic period. This position was changed to Kritika, Rohini and Asvini in course of time. Presently the star is Uttarabhadrapad.Ultimately, I feel unless you will not understand delinks between rashis and nakshtras, it will remain very difficult for you to get rid of from your ‘Dhanishta riddle.      10- And now a humble  request to every member of Hindu Calendar Group that the Arsh Tithi Patrak that I have produced is (from my side) a ‘correct’ one and very sincerely managed with my limited knowledge and guidance available to me. However,  it is not yet a ‘complete’ one. There are certain things in my mind which I am not going to disclose at this immature stage. Knowledgeable members  may please take it confiremed that any of the suggestion coming from them ( including Sunil K Bhattacharya ji)  will be sincerely attended to. If I found them correct I will certainly manage those suggestions. Please be with me learnedly but igolessly. Thanks. Aum Sham!  Acharya Darshaney Lokesh Editor, Shri Mohan Krity Aarsh Tithi Patrak  hari harimalla HinduCalendar Thu, 12 November, 20095:08:38 PM [HinduCalendar] Re: MeshadI & Tuladi Dear shri Darshaneylokesh ji, Since you are also a man interested in the truth, may I request you to let people know of the alternate method to reform our calendar by the coordinative system, where the panchanga remains nirayan as it is the old custome. Let them know both the sayan method you are advocating and also the method I am trying to propagate. This will save our common time frame for reform, if we cooperate with each other in this way, so that the Hindus of India will get a chance to choose from the two methods. Thanks, Regards, Hari Malla  HinduCalendar, darshaney lokesh <darshaneylokesh@ ...> wrote: >  Respected Kaul ji, > Namastey. > >I received today your post with cuttings from Amar Ujala and Dainik Jagran .There appears to be a steady uneasy feeling in the minds of general public that they are really celebrating their festivals on worng days. I am sure it will gather momentum and ultimately, " satyam eva jayate nanrtiam " > * Of course! As ‘Sarthee of the Satya’ (Satyya ke saarthee ke roop men) dedicated for doing that. The enclosed cuttings have been sent to more than 200 astrologers and panchanga makers since those  were giving nice coverage of the Chandausi Sammelan of Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar Samiti, > >Regarding the post " Meshadi & Tuladi " , I think it is the one that I am copying below from Hinducalendar forum. Pl. let me know. >*Definitely, it is the same. > It is to also let you know that the famous and quite relevant MATTHAADESH of Samvat 1929 is being reproduced in the SMKATP -2067 along with  three foot notes asking to the present param poojya shree that- >  1. The said MATTHAADESH is still standing or cancelled? >  2. If yes, then let us know the draft matter of the cancellation of the  MATTHAADESH. >  3. If not, then how the Panchangas are being observed and how the Festivals are being observed by the loyal devotees of the respected MATH. >  It is also brought in the notice of all concerning learned members of this group  that Sri Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak -2066, 2067 have been sent to almost all the MATHS through the Patrone, Shri Rahimal Prasad Tivari, Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar Samiti and following to that, Poojya Shankaracharya ji of Kanchipuram had called on me to his Ashram.. The invitation was  replied back asking for clear agenda of the meeting. Further reply from his holiness is awaited. I hope members will appreceiate and encourage my action. > This is in reply to an another mail received from you. > Thanks. Aum Sham. > Darshaney Lokesh, Genl Secretary, > Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar Samiti, > Primary School level Geography: Let us see the situation in the light of modern astronomy/geography . Initially, I was myself peeved as to why the ayana and vishuva (Makara, Mesha, Karkata and Tula) sankrantis had been praised to the skies by our Rishis, so much so that they say that it is difficult even for yogis to catch the actual moment of such sankrantis and any charities or fasts on such occasions yield thousand-fold results! > Let me explain it in a manner that is as non-technical as possible: > We know that the earth hurtles around the sun at about 30 kilometers per second. (2) It also rotates on its axis, causing days and nights (3) The equator is " precessing " at tremendous speeds. (4) Because the ecliptic is inclined to the equator (obliquity of ecliptic) the earth/sun reaches the minimum/maximum declination i.e. it is at the minimum/maximum distance from the equator during its revolution of the sun at particular points of time. The maximum obliquity of the ecliptic has remained around 23°28' over the last couple of centuries. Therefore that is the maximum north/south declination that the sun/earth can attain these days during its journey via the ecliptic. On that declination depends the phenomenon of seasons, which is also directly responsible for increase/decrease in day/night durations. The sun attains the maximum northern declination of about 23° 27' on June 21. That means it is at a maximum northern distance from the > equator on that date. That is thus the last day of the summer season when the day is the longest and varsha ritu starts. The sun (actually the earth) has then to stop for a fleeting moment---less than a nanosecond-- - before climbing down from that " high pedestal " of North declination! That fleeting moment is the real crucial moment and we can only " calculate " it correctly to some extent with our computers with microprocessor speeds in GHz that also only with the data from NASA and other overseas observatories and not from our panchanga-makers including the Rashtriya Panchanga! This very moment of " U-turn " in the declination of the sun is the real dakshinayana as the earth has reached the maximum declination of south or the sun the maximum declination of north viz. 23° 27' and has to turn back from there. This is also known as Karkata Sankranti of the sun as the sun lies directly over the tropic of Cancer (Karka-Rekha) on that date. I am sure > everybody has read that much of geography in his primary school days! There cannot be any other Karkata Sankranti as per any shastra or sidhanta or modern astronomy/geography since there is no other Karka Rekha (Tropic of Cancer) or any other longest day of the year! > Similar is the case on December 21, when the sun reaches the maximum south declination (of around 23° 27') i.e. when the sun is at a maximum southern distance from the equator. It has to stop then for a fleeting moment---less than a nanosecond again--- before " turning " back (U-turn!) from that high pedestal. That fleeting moment is the real Uttarayana of the sun known as Makara Sankranti since the sun is directly on the tropic of Capricorn--- Makara-Rekha- --on that date. There is absolutely no other Makara Sankranti either as per the shastras or sidhantas or modern astronomy/geography since there is no other Makara-Rekha nor any other shortest day of the year! That also is primary school level geography! > Similarly, during its sojourn around the sun; the earth, the equator and the ecliptic join together for a fleeting moment---here also less than a nanosecond-- when the longitude, latitude, declination and right ascension of the sun/earth are zero! The sun (actually the earth) is in exact " conjunction " with the ecliptic and the equator! It is thus a " Triveni " and that is the moment of Spring Equinox. With the declination of the sun being zero degrees South it has to start moving away (cross the equator) again from that " conjunction of the equator " from that moment of zero degrees longitude-cum- latitude- cum-declination- cum-right ascension! It proceeds towards Northern declination and it is known as Uttaragola. That fleeting moment is Vishuva †" Mesha Sankranti of the sun (Tula Sankranti of the earth)! It is Vishuva because the earth is conjunct with the Vishuvat Rekha i.e. the Equator. That is the moment when days and nights are really equal throughout > the globe. > That is the zero " moment/point " for all the calculations of longitude, Right Ascension, Declination etc. and it is known as Vernal Equinox. Vishuva also means, as per Jayaratha, the commentator of Tantraloka, the days when " days and nights are equal " . Spring Equinox also means the same thing i.e Equi-nox: day is equal to night in the midst of the spring season! This is the real Vaishakhi and the sun enters Uttara Gola then i.e. it starts gaining in northern declination! There is no other Vishuvat Rekha (Equator) with which the earth can be " conjunct " during Spring and therefore there cannot be any other Vishuva or Mesha Sankranti since day and night are not equal during Spring on any other day. All the panchangakars list Uttara-gola on that date but then why do they want us to celebrate Vaishakhi/Vaishakha di/Meshadi i.e. solar New Year on April 14/15!   Because they know that we do not know ABC of geography! Or is it that they do not know it > themselves? > Then again after six months of that phenomenon, a similar situation comes again, when the longitude and Right ascension of the sun are 180 degrees (earth zero degrees). The longitude of the sun also can be taken as zero degrees on that date if we measure it from Autumn Equinox instead of from Vernal Equinox! The equator, the earth and the ecliptic have a confluence for a fleeting moment---less than a nanosecond-- -again! As the earth is conjunct the equator i.e. Vishuvat Rekha again, it is also known as Vishuva----Autumn Equinox (Jala Vishuva or Tula Sankranti) around September 23. It is the midpoint (second month) of the Sharat-ritu. (That is why Sharadiya Navaratras should start with the first Shukla Pratipat after Sharat Ritu starts---on September 15 in 2004†" and not when Sharat-kala is almost over†" October 14, 2004----as is being done by our panchangamakers) . > The declination of the sun is zero degrees at that particular moment. Again, all the panchangakars list it as " the sun enters dakshina gola " as the sun (after crossing the Equator) starts gaining southern declination from that moment. There cannot be any other Tula Sankranti/Jala Vishuva as the earth is not conjunct Equator---and thus the day and night are not equal---on any other day in Autumn! But then these panchangakars make us celebrate Tula Sankranti on October 14/15! Why? Only because they will lose their sinful crumbs if the tell us the facts! Or is it that they do not know the facts themselves? A sad state of affairs, in either case! > Naturally, in ancient times, it was almost impossible for ordinary mortals to calculate accurately to the nearest minute, leave alone the nearest second, such phenomena as lasted hardly for nanoseconds! Really, hats off to our Rishis! Obviously, our present " Vamadevas " and " Parasharas " who advocate such Mesha etc. sankrantis as do not exist at all, are a slur on the real Rishis and such fakes must be banished without delay from this land of real Rishis > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in./ --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Dear shri Kaulji and Darshaneylokeshji, namaskar! Please try to understand the intenton of the following corespondence.If you do not agree with the interpretation of vedanga jyotish as mentioned hereunder give your comments. I feel shri Darhsneylokeshji should not try to change the basic vedic truths in the name of modernity. Please, may you both gentlemen not try to escape from the meanings of sayan and nirayan which translated into english becomes tropical and sidereal. when you say vedic calendar is neither sayan nor nirayan, you are both trying to evade issues.You are also trying to say that the seasonal calendar is vedic, which though is approximately true but not exactly true. In the exact sense the vedic calendar is coordinative of both the sayan and the nirayan concepts. This is evident from the sixth sloka of yajur vedanga jyotish, which has been mentioned hereunder. Thanks. Hari Malla > Dear Rohiniji, > Certainly your words are both sagacioius and comforting.Thankyou for the same. The cause of my worry is, if some so called wise persons hamper the truth or themeaning of the scriptures,then the massses suffer for a longer time. My woorry is mainly for the massses, not that the vedic truth will not shine one day in its own glory. > As you have aptly said both the western suit and the kurta being in the same wardrobe,so also the vedic truth is that both the sayan and the nirayan concepts are limited within the same full moon or pratipada tithi zone.This is surely the meaning of the sixth sloka of yajur vedanga jyotish- " When the sun and the moon are in dhanistha, then the five year yuga, month of maagha, tapa sukla (pratipada) and uttarayan start together. " > Regards, > Hari Malla > , " Krishen " <jyotirved wrote: > > > HinduCalendar , darshaney lokesh > <darshaneylokesh@> wrote: > > Shri hari Malla ji, >     Namestey. >     Since, myself interested in truth and truth alone I’d > like to clarify a few things to you, >  > 1-True panchanga can never be either sayan or nirayan or both or > neither. Actually a panchanga (hence forth called as tithi patrak, it > being more appropriate nomenclature) has nothing to do with Ayanamsha > (what so ever it’s value may be) resulting from precession of > equinoxes, as against common thinking. >        2-You have been talking a lot of about coordinative > approach. For coordination we must have at least two  things which > needs to be coordinated having at least one point in common at which the > things are to be coordinated. Plz Let me know, the things you are > interested in coordinating and the common point of coordination. > 3-  Your logic regarding oldness of a custom is also not valid > since this  is the argument on wich Gaililio was trailed. At so may > phases this argument has harmed the humanity very much. That is the > reason that  Kalidas had to say,â€Puranmittev na saadhu > sarvam. .†An old custom, just because of its oldness, ca not be > carried forward at least after getting known of its correctness.The same > has been done for quite a few old customs. We have touched one of those. > 4-The word “lunar season†in itself is a misnomer as > “vandhya putra†( son of a vandhya lady). The word > “lunar season†has got zero meaning. I hope you understand > the meaning of meaning. > 5-Truth is alone; there can not be two ways to choose from. Truth is not > a matter of choice. It is as such “tat twam asiâ€. When we > choose, we choose either the most suitable or the least objectionable. > Truth is neither that which is most suitable nor that which is most > objectionable. > 6-Definitely working together saves time. I request you to have a look > of Shri Mohan Krity Aarsh Tithi Patrak. We too are looking forward for > your cooperation if you come with your self amended form for which you > require to follow some important   following points.. > 7- I have put my mathematical explaination before all erudites. You > have not touched that but still talking ‘nirayana’, > ‘sayana’ due to your ‘nirayan attachments > (Moh)’ and ‘sayana hate (vair)’as is evident from > your statement,â€Since you are also a man interested in the truth, > may I request you to let people know of the alternate method to reform > our calendar by the coordinative system, where the panchanga remains > nirayan as it is the old custome“. Therefore, so far these two > words are fetched in to the  brain   you may not be free from > such ‘raag-dwesh’. You do not know that basing > ‘ayanamsha’ right from 0 to 360 degrees will give relative > measures only. E.g. Kathmandumay be at the distance > of 10,100,500,1000 or any more Kms but from where? That > ‘where’ talks of your ayanamsha. For true idea of > it’s location, you will have to talk interms of Latitude and > Longitudes. In this way zodical measurements are needed to be > given on the basis of ‘Shar’ and ‘bhogamsha’ > and initial ‘shar and bhogamshas’ are zero/zero. This > ‘zero’ is free from the bases of your raag and dwesh. Ok? > It is that raag and dwesh only due to which your replies are always- 1> > Haste written and 2> Not proper since you do not even read the mail > completely. > 8 †" See your advise (what type of advise is this that  looks > like an order?),â€I am advising him to give another alternative to > the public and quote the availability of the nirayana method > too.†Sorry dear friend, I have calculated and framed the correct > vedic calendar which is the outcome of my longest devotion of years > together. It is not the mere matter of,†Since you are also a man > interested in the. . .†but devotion of years together This > language of your’s is very cheaper way for under rating my > ‘total devotion’. If you do not amend yourself then I will > have to amend myself by neglecting your mails. I am sure, By this way, > we would save at least our time from being wasted. >  > 9- You have been talking a lot about the Sun being in Dhanishta at > Uttarayan/Makar samkranti during VJ period. In his latest mail Shri > Bhattacharya has also put some valid arguments. Can you please clearify > if VJ people were able to Sun and Dhanishta simultaneously? Generally we > can not see any star, other than the Sunwhile Sun is in the sky.If > otherwise, then what is the meaning of Sun at Uttarayan/Makarsamkranti > in Dhanishta.Is it that Dhanishta was rising in east during the said > samkranti or is it that Dhanishta was at Mid-haeaven in the night of > that event? What else? >      Hari ji, Nakshtras ar primarily related to moon and > its’ orbital path and hence seen and recorded in relation to moon > alone. Sun’s relation to nakshtrais depicted with the rising of > stars at evening or early morning after tropical event like Vasant > Sampat etc e.g. Margsheersh name of the star  signifies its’ > importance. The star is supposed to be the sheers (i.e. head or the > starting point )of the path of the Sun arrounf Earthwas the star rising > in east after VE during early vedic period. This position was changed to > Kritika, Rohini and Asvini in course of time. Presently the star is > Uttarabhadrapad.Ultimately, I feel unless you will not understand > delinks between rashis and nakshtras, it will remain very difficult for > you to get rid of from your ‘Dhanishta riddle.      > 10- And now a humble  request to every member of Hindu Calendar > Group that the Arsh Tithi Patrak that I have produced is (from my > side) a ‘correct’ one and very sincerely managed with > my limited knowledge and guidance available to me. However,  it is > not yet a ‘complete’ one. There are certain things in my > mind which I am not going to disclose at this immature stage. > Knowledgeable members  may please take it confiremed that any of the > suggestion coming from them ( including Sunil K Bhattacharya ji) >  will be sincerely attended to. If I found them correct I will > certainly manage those suggestions. Please be with me learnedly but > igolessly. > Thanks. Aum Sham! >  > Acharya Darshaney Lokesh > Editor, Shri Mohan Krity Aarsh Tithi Patrak >  > hari harimalla@ > HinduCalendar > Thu, 12 November, 20095:08:38 PM > [HinduCalendar] Re: MeshadI & Tuladi > > Dear shri Darshaneylokesh ji, > Since you are also a man interested in the truth, may I request you to > let people know of the alternate method to reform our calendar by the > coordinative system, where the panchanga remains nirayan as it is the > old custome. Let them know both the sayan method you are advocating and > also the method I am trying to propagate. This will save our common time > frame for reform, if we cooperate with each other in this way, so that > the Hindus of India will get a chance to choose from the two methods. > Thanks, > Regards, > Hari Malla >  > HinduCalendar, darshaney lokesh > <darshaneylokesh@ ...> wrote: > > >  Respected Kaul ji, > > Namastey. > > >I received today your post with cuttings from Amar Ujala and Dainik > Jagran .There appears to be a steady uneasy feeling in the minds of > general public that they are really celebrating their festivals on worng > days. I am sure it will gather momentum and ultimately, " satyam > eva jayate nanrtiam " > > * Of course! As ‘Sarthee of the Satya’ (Satyya > ke saarthee ke roop men) dedicated for doing that. The enclosed cuttings > have been sent to more than 200 astrologers and panchanga makers since > those  were giving nice coverage of the Chandausi Sammelan of > Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar Samiti, > > >Regarding the post " Meshadi & Tuladi " , I think it is the one > that I am copying below from Hinducalendar forum. Pl. let me > know. > >*Definitely, it is the same. > > It is to also let you know that the famous and quite relevant > MATTHAADESH of Samvat 1929 is being reproduced in the SMKATP -2067 along > with  three foot notes asking to the present param poojya shree > that- > >  1. The said MATTHAADESH is still standing or cancelled? > >  2. If yes, then let us know the draft matter of the cancellation > of the  MATTHAADESH. > >  3. If not, then how the Panchangas are being observed and how > the Festivals are being observed by the loyal devotees of the respected > MATH. > >  It is also brought in the notice of all concerning learned > members of this group  that Sri Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi > Patrak -2066, 2067 have been sent to almost all the MATHS through the > Patrone, Shri Rahimal Prasad Tivari, Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar > Samiti and following to that, Poojya Shankaracharya ji of > Kanchipuram had called on me to his Ashram.. The > invitation was  replied back asking for clear agenda of > the meeting. Further reply from his holiness is awaited. I hope members > will appreceiate and encourage my action. > > This is in reply to an another mail received from you. > > Thanks. Aum Sham. > > Darshaney Lokesh, Genl Secretary, > > Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar Samiti, > > Primary School level Geography: Let us see the situation in > the light of modern astronomy/geography . Initially, I was > myself peeved as to why the ayana and vishuva (Makara, Mesha, Karkata > and Tula) sankrantis had been praised to the skies by our Rishis, so > much so that they say that it is difficult even for yogis to catch the > actual moment of such sankrantis and any charities or fasts on such > occasions yield thousand-fold results! > > Let me explain it in a manner that is as non-technical as possible: > > We know that the earth hurtles around the sun at about 30 kilometers > per second. (2) It also rotates on its axis, causing days and > nights (3) The equator is " precessing " at tremendous speeds. (4) > Because the ecliptic is inclined to the equator (obliquity of ecliptic) > the earth/sun reaches the minimum/maximum declination i.e. it is at the > minimum/maximum distance from the equator during its revolution of the > sun at particular points of time. The maximum obliquity of the > ecliptic has remained around 23°28' over the last couple of > centuries. Therefore that is the maximum north/south declination > that the sun/earth can attain these days during its journey via the > ecliptic. On that declination depends the phenomenon of seasons, > which is also directly responsible for increase/decrease in day/night > durations. The sun attains the maximum northern declination of > about 23° 27' on June 21. That means it is at a maximum > northern > distance from the > > equator on that date. That is thus the last day of the summer season > when the day is the longest and varsha ritu starts. The sun (actually > the earth) has then to stop for a fleeting moment---less than a > nanosecond-- - before climbing down from that " high pedestal " of North > declination! That fleeting moment is the real crucial moment and > we can only " calculate " it correctly to some extent with our computers > with microprocessor speeds in GHz that also only with the data from NASA > and other overseas observatories and not from our panchanga-makers > including the Rashtriya Panchanga! This very moment of " U-turn " > in the declination of the sun is the real dakshinayana as the earth has > reached the maximum declination of south or the sun the maximum > declination of north viz. 23° 27' and has to turn back from > there. This is also known as Karkata Sankranti of the sun as the sun > lies directly over the tropic of Cancer (Karka-Rekha) on that > date. I am > sure > > everybody has read that much of geography in his primary school > days! There cannot be any other Karkata Sankranti as per any > shastra or sidhanta or modern astronomy/geography since there is no > other Karka Rekha (Tropic of Cancer) or any other longest day of the > year! > > Similar is the case on December 21, when the sun reaches the maximum > south declination (of around 23° 27') i.e. when the sun is at a > maximum southern distance from the equator. It has to stop then for a > fleeting moment---less than a nanosecond again--- before " turning " back > (U-turn!) from that high pedestal. That fleeting moment is the > real Uttarayana of the sun known as Makara Sankranti since the sun is > directly on the tropic of Capricorn--- Makara-Rekha- --on that > date. There is absolutely no other Makara Sankranti either as > per the shastras or sidhantas or modern astronomy/geography since there > is no other Makara-Rekha nor any other shortest day of the year! > That also is primary school level geography! > > Similarly, during its sojourn around the sun; the earth, the equator > and the ecliptic join together for a fleeting moment---here also less > than a nanosecond-- when the longitude, latitude, declination and right > ascension of the sun/earth are zero! The sun (actually the earth) is in > exact " conjunction " with the ecliptic and the equator! It is thus a > " Triveni " and that is the moment of Spring Equinox. With the > declination of the sun being zero degrees South it has to start moving > away (cross the equator) again from that " conjunction of the equator " > from that moment of zero degrees longitude-cum- latitude- > cum-declination- cum-right ascension! It proceeds towards > Northern declination and it is known as Uttaragola. That fleeting moment > is Vishuva †" Mesha Sankranti of the sun (Tula Sankranti of the > earth)! It is Vishuva because the earth is conjunct with the Vishuvat > Rekha i.e. the Equator. That is the moment when days and nights are > really > equal throughout > > the globe. > > That is the zero " moment/point " for all the calculations of longitude, > Right Ascension, Declination etc. and it is known as Vernal > Equinox. Vishuva also means, as per Jayaratha, the commentator > of Tantraloka, the days when " days and nights are equal " . Spring > Equinox also means the same thing i.e Equi-nox: day is equal to night in > the midst of the spring season! This is the real Vaishakhi and the sun > enters Uttara Gola then i.e. it starts gaining in northern > declination! There is no other Vishuvat Rekha (Equator) with > which the earth can be " conjunct " during Spring and therefore there > cannot be any other Vishuva or Mesha Sankranti since day and night are > not equal during Spring on any other day. All the panchangakars > list Uttara-gola on that date but then why do they want us to celebrate > Vaishakhi/Vaishakha di/Meshadi i.e. solar New Year on April 14/15! >   Because they know that we do not know ABC of > geography! Or is it that > they do not know it > > themselves? > > Then again after six months of that phenomenon, a similar situation > comes again, when the longitude and Right ascension of the sun are 180 > degrees (earth zero degrees). The longitude of the sun also can > be taken as zero degrees on that date if we measure it from Autumn > Equinox instead of from Vernal Equinox! The equator, the earth and the > ecliptic have a confluence for a fleeting moment---less than a > nanosecond-- -again! As the earth is conjunct the equator i.e. > Vishuvat Rekha again, it is also known as Vishuva----Autumn Equinox > (Jala Vishuva or Tula Sankranti) around September 23. It is the midpoint > (second month) of the Sharat-ritu. (That is why Sharadiya Navaratras > should start with the first Shukla Pratipat after Sharat Ritu > starts---on September 15 in 2004†" and not when Sharat-kala is > almost over†" October 14, 2004----as is being done by our > panchangamakers) . > > The declination of the sun is zero degrees at that particular > moment. Again, all the panchangakars list it as " the sun enters > dakshina gola " as the sun (after crossing the Equator) starts gaining > southern declination from that moment. There cannot be any other > Tula Sankranti/Jala Vishuva as the earth is not conjunct Equator---and > thus the day and night are not equal---on any other day in Autumn! But > then these panchangakars make us celebrate Tula Sankranti on October > 14/15! Why? Only because they will lose their sinful > crumbs if the tell us the facts! Or is it that they do not know > the facts themselves? A sad state of affairs, in either case! > > Naturally, in ancient times, it was almost impossible for ordinary > mortals to calculate accurately to the nearest minute, leave alone the > nearest second, such phenomena as lasted hardly for nanoseconds! > Really, hats off to our Rishis! Obviously, our present > " Vamadevas " and " Parasharas " who advocate such Mesha etc. sankrantis as > do not exist at all, are a slur on the real Rishis and such fakes must > be banished without delay from this land of real Rishis > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. > http://in./ > > --- End forwarded message --- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Dear Maharathis engaged in this Mahabharat: Pardon my innocense and naivity, but I was given the impression that VEDAS were not just about India or Indian Culture but rather were the compendia of Human Experience and Experience beyond just the Human State of Being! In that perspective, and in order to be complete and COMPREHENSIVE the VEDAS probably incorporated, captured, mentioned, included EVERYTHING! They were after all DIVINE REVELATIONS, were they not? Obviously, then, they must have described all HUMAN EXPERIENCE in a TIMELESS manner! Not that that would stop a certain aspect of human beings to continue to quibble and quarrel! It is all 'pensionable-time' as far as the Soul is concerned ;-) Rohiniranjan , " hari " <harimalla wrote: > > > Dear shri Kaulji and Darshaneylokeshji, > namaskar! Please try to understand the intenton of the following corespondence.If you do not agree with the interpretation of vedanga jyotish as mentioned hereunder give your comments. I feel shri Darhsneylokeshji should not try to change the basic vedic truths in the name of modernity. > Please, may you both gentlemen not try to escape from the meanings of sayan and nirayan which translated into english becomes tropical and sidereal. when you say vedic calendar is neither sayan nor nirayan, you are both trying to evade issues.You are also trying to say that the seasonal calendar is vedic, which though is approximately true but not exactly true. In the exact sense the vedic calendar is coordinative of both the sayan and the nirayan concepts. This is evident from the sixth sloka of yajur vedanga jyotish, which has been mentioned hereunder. > Thanks. > Hari Malla > > > > Dear Rohiniji, > > Certainly your words are both sagacioius and comforting.Thankyou for the same. > The cause of my worry is, if some so called wise persons hamper the truth or > themeaning of the scriptures,then the massses suffer for a longer time. My > woorry is mainly for the massses, not that the vedic truth will not shine one > day in its own glory. > > As you have aptly said both the western suit and the kurta being in the same > wardrobe,so also the vedic truth is that both the sayan and the nirayan concepts > are limited within the same full moon or pratipada tithi zone.This is surely the > meaning of the sixth sloka of yajur vedanga jyotish- " When the sun and the moon > are in dhanistha, then the five year yuga, month of maagha, tapa sukla > (pratipada) and uttarayan start together. " > > Regards, > > Hari Malla > > > > , " Krishen " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > HinduCalendar , darshaney lokesh > > <darshaneylokesh@> wrote: > > > > Shri hari Malla ji, > >     Namestey. > >     Since, myself interested in truth and truth alone I’d > > like to clarify a few things to you, > >  > > 1-True panchanga can never be either sayan or nirayan or both or > > neither. Actually a panchanga (hence forth called as tithi patrak, it > > being more appropriate nomenclature) has nothing to do with Ayanamsha > > (what so ever it’s value may be) resulting from precession of > > equinoxes, as against common thinking. > >        2-You have been talking a lot of about coordinative > > approach. For coordination we must have at least two  things which > > needs to be coordinated having at least one point in common at which the > > things are to be coordinated. Plz Let me know, the things you are > > interested in coordinating and the common point of coordination. > > 3-  Your logic regarding oldness of a custom is also not valid > > since this  is the argument on wich Gaililio was trailed. At so may > > phases this argument has harmed the humanity very much. That is the > > reason that  Kalidas had to say,â€Puranmittev na saadhu > > sarvam. .†An old custom, just because of its oldness, ca not be > > carried forward at least after getting known of its correctness.The same > > has been done for quite a few old customs. We have touched one of those. > > 4-The word “lunar season†in itself is a misnomer as > > “vandhya putra†( son of a vandhya lady). The word > > “lunar season†has got zero meaning. I hope you understand > > the meaning of meaning. > > 5-Truth is alone; there can not be two ways to choose from. Truth is not > > a matter of choice. It is as such “tat twam asiâ€. When we > > choose, we choose either the most suitable or the least objectionable. > > Truth is neither that which is most suitable nor that which is most > > objectionable. > > 6-Definitely working together saves time. I request you to have a look > > of Shri Mohan Krity Aarsh Tithi Patrak. We too are looking forward for > > your cooperation if you come with your self amended form for which you > > require to follow some important   following points.. > > 7- I have put my mathematical explaination before all erudites. You > > have not touched that but still talking ‘nirayana’, > > ‘sayana’ due to your ‘nirayan attachments > > (Moh)’ and ‘sayana hate (vair)’as is evident from > > your statement,â€Since you are also a man interested in the truth, > > may I request you to let people know of the alternate method to reform > > our calendar by the coordinative system, where the panchanga remains > > nirayan as it is the old custome“. Therefore, so far these two > > words are fetched in to the  brain   you may not be free from > > such ‘raag-dwesh’. You do not know that basing > > ‘ayanamsha’ right from 0 to 360 degrees will give relative > > measures only. E.g. Kathmandumay be at the distance > > of 10,100,500,1000 or any more Kms but from where? That > > ‘where’ talks of your ayanamsha. For true idea of > > it’s location, you will have to talk interms of Latitude and > > Longitudes. In this way zodical measurements are needed to be > > given on the basis of ‘Shar’ and ‘bhogamsha’ > > and initial ‘shar and bhogamshas’ are zero/zero. This > > ‘zero’ is free from the bases of your raag and dwesh. Ok? > > It is that raag and dwesh only due to which your replies are always- 1> > > Haste written and 2> Not proper since you do not even read the mail > > completely. > > 8 †" See your advise (what type of advise is this that  looks > > like an order?),â€I am advising him to give another alternative to > > the public and quote the availability of the nirayana method > > too.†Sorry dear friend, I have calculated and framed the correct > > vedic calendar which is the outcome of my longest devotion of years > > together. It is not the mere matter of,†Since you are also a man > > interested in the. . .†but devotion of years together This > > language of your’s is very cheaper way for under rating my > > ‘total devotion’. If you do not amend yourself then I will > > have to amend myself by neglecting your mails. I am sure, By this way, > > we would save at least our time from being wasted. > >  > > 9- You have been talking a lot about the Sun being in Dhanishta at > > Uttarayan/Makar samkranti during VJ period. In his latest mail Shri > > Bhattacharya has also put some valid arguments. Can you please clearify > > if VJ people were able to Sun and Dhanishta simultaneously? Generally we > > can not see any star, other than the Sunwhile Sun is in the sky.If > > otherwise, then what is the meaning of Sun at Uttarayan/Makarsamkranti > > in Dhanishta.Is it that Dhanishta was rising in east during the said > > samkranti or is it that Dhanishta was at Mid-haeaven in the night of > > that event? What else? > >      Hari ji, Nakshtras ar primarily related to moon and > > its’ orbital path and hence seen and recorded in relation to moon > > alone. Sun’s relation to nakshtrais depicted with the rising of > > stars at evening or early morning after tropical event like Vasant > > Sampat etc e.g. Margsheersh name of the star  signifies its’ > > importance. The star is supposed to be the sheers (i.e. head or the > > starting point )of the path of the Sun arrounf Earthwas the star rising > > in east after VE during early vedic period. This position was changed to > > Kritika, Rohini and Asvini in course of time. Presently the star is > > Uttarabhadrapad.Ultimately, I feel unless you will not understand > > delinks between rashis and nakshtras, it will remain very difficult for > > you to get rid of from your ‘Dhanishta riddle.      > > 10- And now a humble  request to every member of Hindu Calendar > > Group that the Arsh Tithi Patrak that I have produced is (from my > > side) a ‘correct’ one and very sincerely managed with > > my limited knowledge and guidance available to me. However,  it is > > not yet a ‘complete’ one. There are certain things in my > > mind which I am not going to disclose at this immature stage. > > Knowledgeable members  may please take it confiremed that any of the > > suggestion coming from them ( including Sunil K Bhattacharya ji) > >  will be sincerely attended to. If I found them correct I will > > certainly manage those suggestions. Please be with me learnedly but > > igolessly. > > Thanks. Aum Sham! > >  > > Acharya Darshaney Lokesh > > Editor, Shri Mohan Krity Aarsh Tithi Patrak > >  > > hari harimalla@ > > HinduCalendar > > Thu, 12 November, 20095:08:38 PM > > [HinduCalendar] Re: MeshadI & Tuladi > > > > Dear shri Darshaneylokesh ji, > > Since you are also a man interested in the truth, may I request you to > > let people know of the alternate method to reform our calendar by the > > coordinative system, where the panchanga remains nirayan as it is the > > old custome. Let them know both the sayan method you are advocating and > > also the method I am trying to propagate. This will save our common time > > frame for reform, if we cooperate with each other in this way, so that > > the Hindus of India will get a chance to choose from the two methods. > > Thanks, > > Regards, > > Hari Malla > >  > > HinduCalendar, darshaney lokesh > > <darshaneylokesh@ ...> wrote: > > > > >  Respected Kaul ji, > > > Namastey. > > > >I received today your post with cuttings from Amar Ujala and Dainik > > Jagran .There appears to be a steady uneasy feeling in the minds of > > general public that they are really celebrating their festivals on worng > > days. I am sure it will gather momentum and ultimately, " satyam > > eva jayate nanrtiam " > > > * Of course! As ‘Sarthee of the Satya’ (Satyya > > ke saarthee ke roop men) dedicated for doing that. The enclosed cuttings > > have been sent to more than 200 astrologers and panchanga makers since > > those  were giving nice coverage of the Chandausi Sammelan of > > Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar Samiti, > > > >Regarding the post " Meshadi & Tuladi " , I think it is the one > > that I am copying below from Hinducalendar forum. Pl. let me > > know. > > >*Definitely, it is the same. > > > It is to also let you know that the famous and quite relevant > > MATTHAADESH of Samvat 1929 is being reproduced in the SMKATP -2067 along > > with  three foot notes asking to the present param poojya shree > > that- > > >  1. The said MATTHAADESH is still standing or cancelled? > > >  2. If yes, then let us know the draft matter of the cancellation > > of the  MATTHAADESH. > > >  3. If not, then how the Panchangas are being observed and how > > the Festivals are being observed by the loyal devotees of the respected > > MATH. > > >  It is also brought in the notice of all concerning learned > > members of this group  that Sri Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi > > Patrak -2066, 2067 have been sent to almost all the MATHS through the > > Patrone, Shri Rahimal Prasad Tivari, Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar > > Samiti and following to that, Poojya Shankaracharya ji of > > Kanchipuram had called on me to his Ashram.. The > > invitation was  replied back asking for clear agenda of > > the meeting. Further reply from his holiness is awaited. I hope members > > will appreceiate and encourage my action. > > > This is in reply to an another mail received from you. > > > Thanks. Aum Sham. > > > Darshaney Lokesh, Genl Secretary, > > > Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar Samiti, > > > Primary School level Geography: Let us see the situation in > > the light of modern astronomy/geography . Initially, I was > > myself peeved as to why the ayana and vishuva (Makara, Mesha, Karkata > > and Tula) sankrantis had been praised to the skies by our Rishis, so > > much so that they say that it is difficult even for yogis to catch the > > actual moment of such sankrantis and any charities or fasts on such > > occasions yield thousand-fold results! > > > Let me explain it in a manner that is as non-technical as possible: > > > We know that the earth hurtles around the sun at about 30 kilometers > > per second. (2) It also rotates on its axis, causing days and > > nights (3) The equator is " precessing " at tremendous speeds. (4) > > Because the ecliptic is inclined to the equator (obliquity of ecliptic) > > the earth/sun reaches the minimum/maximum declination i.e. it is at the > > minimum/maximum distance from the equator during its revolution of the > > sun at particular points of time. The maximum obliquity of the > > ecliptic has remained around 23°28' over the last couple of > > centuries. Therefore that is the maximum north/south declination > > that the sun/earth can attain these days during its journey via the > > ecliptic. On that declination depends the phenomenon of seasons, > > which is also directly responsible for increase/decrease in day/night > > durations. The sun attains the maximum northern declination of > > about 23° 27' on June 21. That means it is at a maximum > > northern > > distance from the > > > equator on that date. That is thus the last day of the summer season > > when the day is the longest and varsha ritu starts. The sun (actually > > the earth) has then to stop for a fleeting moment---less than a > > nanosecond-- - before climbing down from that " high pedestal " of North > > declination! That fleeting moment is the real crucial moment and > > we can only " calculate " it correctly to some extent with our computers > > with microprocessor speeds in GHz that also only with the data from NASA > > and other overseas observatories and not from our panchanga-makers > > including the Rashtriya Panchanga! This very moment of " U-turn " > > in the declination of the sun is the real dakshinayana as the earth has > > reached the maximum declination of south or the sun the maximum > > declination of north viz. 23° 27' and has to turn back from > > there. This is also known as Karkata Sankranti of the sun as the sun > > lies directly over the tropic of Cancer (Karka-Rekha) on that > > date. I am > > sure > > > everybody has read that much of geography in his primary school > > days! There cannot be any other Karkata Sankranti as per any > > shastra or sidhanta or modern astronomy/geography since there is no > > other Karka Rekha (Tropic of Cancer) or any other longest day of the > > year! > > > Similar is the case on December 21, when the sun reaches the maximum > > south declination (of around 23° 27') i.e. when the sun is at a > > maximum southern distance from the equator. It has to stop then for a > > fleeting moment---less than a nanosecond again--- before " turning " back > > (U-turn!) from that high pedestal. That fleeting moment is the > > real Uttarayana of the sun known as Makara Sankranti since the sun is > > directly on the tropic of Capricorn--- Makara-Rekha- --on that > > date. There is absolutely no other Makara Sankranti either as > > per the shastras or sidhantas or modern astronomy/geography since there > > is no other Makara-Rekha nor any other shortest day of the year! > > That also is primary school level geography! > > > Similarly, during its sojourn around the sun; the earth, the equator > > and the ecliptic join together for a fleeting moment---here also less > > than a nanosecond-- when the longitude, latitude, declination and right > > ascension of the sun/earth are zero! The sun (actually the earth) is in > > exact " conjunction " with the ecliptic and the equator! It is thus a > > " Triveni " and that is the moment of Spring Equinox. With the > > declination of the sun being zero degrees South it has to start moving > > away (cross the equator) again from that " conjunction of the equator " > > from that moment of zero degrees longitude-cum- latitude- > > cum-declination- cum-right ascension! It proceeds towards > > Northern declination and it is known as Uttaragola. That fleeting moment > > is Vishuva †" Mesha Sankranti of the sun (Tula Sankranti of the > > earth)! It is Vishuva because the earth is conjunct with the Vishuvat > > Rekha i.e. the Equator. That is the moment when days and nights are > > really > > equal throughout > > > the globe. > > > That is the zero " moment/point " for all the calculations of longitude, > > Right Ascension, Declination etc. and it is known as Vernal > > Equinox. Vishuva also means, as per Jayaratha, the commentator > > of Tantraloka, the days when " days and nights are equal " . Spring > > Equinox also means the same thing i.e Equi-nox: day is equal to night in > > the midst of the spring season! This is the real Vaishakhi and the sun > > enters Uttara Gola then i.e. it starts gaining in northern > > declination! There is no other Vishuvat Rekha (Equator) with > > which the earth can be " conjunct " during Spring and therefore there > > cannot be any other Vishuva or Mesha Sankranti since day and night are > > not equal during Spring on any other day. All the panchangakars > > list Uttara-gola on that date but then why do they want us to celebrate > > Vaishakhi/Vaishakha di/Meshadi i.e. solar New Year on April 14/15! > >   Because they know that we do not know ABC of > > geography! Or is it that > > they do not know it > > > themselves? > > > Then again after six months of that phenomenon, a similar situation > > comes again, when the longitude and Right ascension of the sun are 180 > > degrees (earth zero degrees). The longitude of the sun also can > > be taken as zero degrees on that date if we measure it from Autumn > > Equinox instead of from Vernal Equinox! The equator, the earth and the > > ecliptic have a confluence for a fleeting moment---less than a > > nanosecond-- -again! As the earth is conjunct the equator i.e. > > Vishuvat Rekha again, it is also known as Vishuva----Autumn Equinox > > (Jala Vishuva or Tula Sankranti) around September 23. It is the midpoint > > (second month) of the Sharat-ritu. (That is why Sharadiya Navaratras > > should start with the first Shukla Pratipat after Sharat Ritu > > starts---on September 15 in 2004†" and not when Sharat-kala is > > almost over†" October 14, 2004----as is being done by our > > panchangamakers) . > > > The declination of the sun is zero degrees at that particular > > moment. Again, all the panchangakars list it as " the sun enters > > dakshina gola " as the sun (after crossing the Equator) starts gaining > > southern declination from that moment. There cannot be any other > > Tula Sankranti/Jala Vishuva as the earth is not conjunct Equator---and > > thus the day and night are not equal---on any other day in Autumn! But > > then these panchangakars make us celebrate Tula Sankranti on October > > 14/15! Why? Only because they will lose their sinful > > crumbs if the tell us the facts! Or is it that they do not know > > the facts themselves? A sad state of affairs, in either case! > > > Naturally, in ancient times, it was almost impossible for ordinary > > mortals to calculate accurately to the nearest minute, leave alone the > > nearest second, such phenomena as lasted hardly for nanoseconds! > > Really, hats off to our Rishis! Obviously, our present > > " Vamadevas " and " Parasharas " who advocate such Mesha etc. sankrantis as > > do not exist at all, are a slur on the real Rishis and such fakes must > > be banished without delay from this land of real Rishis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. > > http://in./ > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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