Fwd: The views of PNB, reply to SK Bhattacharyaji from Mr. Wilkinson.

December 8, 2009

parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote:

Dear Wilkinsonji,

Namaksar! Well said indeed! The comparision of Bhisma is perfect.You are

certainly illumined.May victory follow you always. I was already impressed by

your efforts in changing of the dates of festivals according to the sayan system

celebrated by 30 temples in Tamilnadu. Now I understand why you all succeeded in

that great work.

Here in Nepal, the government has also decided to shift the festivals by one

month from next year onwards. From the Report forwarded to the government by the

Narional Task Force formed in 2006 AD and aproved in 2008 AD ,the version is

slightly different from what you have said.I suggest that you please consider

these differences too. The details of the decision is given in the

'parvasudhar2065 ' forum. Please visit the files section of that

forum. The scientific reasons for reformation is given by a drawing entitled the

'Scientific basis of Calendar reform', which you will surely appreciate.

Let me briefly mention that the system adopted for reformation is coordinative.

This means the present nirayan system is conitnued after shifting the names of

both the solar and the lunar dates (and months) by one whole month backwards.In

this way there has been coordination of both the sayan(tropical) and the

nirayan(sidereal) concepts.The coordination of the tropical and the sidereal

sankrantis is done with the help of the lunar fullmoon zones.This seems to be

the best way to reform by harmonising both the sayan and the nirayan supporters.

Please study the pertaiing literatures.

Thank you,

Regards,

Hari Malla

WAVES-Vedic , Robert Wilkinson <robtw@> wrote:

>

> III

>

> I will proceed to the most important point of all: there is no path of

> higher knowledge leading to the goal of Immortality in the Nakshatras. The

> names given to them are proof enough. Whereas, the names, hieroglyphs,

> rhythms and measures of the Tropical Zodiac rasis provide true seekers of

> Vedic Wisdom with the most colossal store of wisdom of all times.

> I challenge all Post-Vedics to prove the contrary. On my part, I will

> present the Vedic content of the tropical zodiac; let any one or all of them

> put forth whatever wisdom of the same standard that they have come upon in

> the study of this ancient and contemporary Art.

> To end with one important aspect of the Vedic wisdom, I will refer to the

> apex of the Rishi's quest once again, Capricorn/Makar/Brahma – providing

> proof based on higher knowledge of the Vedic order to support the statement

> that Capricorn cannot be separated from the Solstice as is currently being

> done, a method SKB upholds. Again, I must ask, on what basis?

> Here is the reason why not only was it held as the rasi/month of Victory and

> the summit of the Journey, but also exactly why IT CANNOT BE SEPARATED FROM

> THE TENTH MONTH SOLSTICE. Again, we turn to the Earth for the answer, and

> this will reveal not only the Earth-centred focus of the true Vedic

> Astrology but also the practical application of the Art in that the physical

> reality of our planet's own journey around the Sun, touching quarterly as it

> does these Cardinal Poles of Equinoxes and Solstices, very accurately

> describes exactly what that culmination meant and why it had to be in

> consonance with the actual structure of our very own solar system and its

> harmonies. What I will describe will also help us realise why Bhisma chose

> to leave this plane on no other date but the December Solstice, the shortest

> day of the year. For the fact is only at that precise time is a `portal'

> opened to the land of the Immortals. The physical reality is our best

> indication of exactly what the Rishis experienced when they attained

> Immortality, remaining forever after to preside over the fortunes of Bharat

> from that eternal plane.

> The light of the Sun is compressed at that precise moment of the solstice;

> the shortest day reveals this compression to a point. This is what the

> Rishis and Bhisma achieved after much diligent and difficult tapasya.

> Indeed, after they had successfully completed the Journey as explained in

> detail in the Vedic Myth and the Hymns. Compression of the

> consciousness-being to a point was and remains the key. And only those who

> have experienced this compaction can understand (hence, the Rishi asks `Who

> can comprehend this?). Bhisma then, in full conscious-ness, crossed the

> threshold through that Point to the land of the Immortals and remained ever

> connected to this Earth plane, just as the Rishis of old had done.

> I repeat that this, my friends, is the reason why it is inadmissible that we

> continue to extol the scientific imposition of a separation between zodiacal

> signs and the Earth-centred harmonies of our system in favour of the

> constellations.

>

--- End forwarded message ---

December 8, 2009

Creating " tangible " out of the 'intangible' and then assuming that the TANGIBLE

holds the INTANGIBLE and vice versa!

Hmm... very interesting concept and a distinct possibility, Horatio!

, " hari " <harimalla wrote:

>

> parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote:

>

> Dear Wilkinsonji,

> Namaksar! Well said indeed! The comparision of Bhisma is perfect.You are

certainly illumined.May victory follow you always. I was already impressed by

your efforts in changing of the dates of festivals according to the sayan system

celebrated by 30 temples in Tamilnadu. Now I understand why you all succeeded in

that great work.

> Here in Nepal, the government has also decided to shift the festivals by one

month from next year onwards. From the Report forwarded to the government by the

Narional Task Force formed in 2006 AD and aproved in 2008 AD ,the version is

slightly different from what you have said.I suggest that you please consider

these differences too. The details of the decision is given in the

'parvasudhar2065 ' forum. Please visit the files section of that

forum. The scientific reasons for reformation is given by a drawing entitled the

'Scientific basis of Calendar reform', which you will surely appreciate.

> Let me briefly mention that the system adopted for reformation is

coordinative. This means the present nirayan system is conitnued after shifting

the names of both the solar and the lunar dates (and months) by one whole month

backwards.In this way there has been coordination of both the sayan(tropical)

and the nirayan(sidereal) concepts.The coordination of the tropical and the

sidereal sankrantis is done with the help of the lunar fullmoon zones.This seems

to be the best way to reform by harmonising both the sayan and the nirayan

supporters. Please study the pertaiing literatures.

> Thank you,

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

>

> WAVES-Vedic , Robert Wilkinson <robtw@> wrote:

> >

> > III

> >

> > I will proceed to the most important point of all: there is no path of

> > higher knowledge leading to the goal of Immortality in the Nakshatras. The

> > names given to them are proof enough. Whereas, the names, hieroglyphs,

> > rhythms and measures of the Tropical Zodiac rasis provide true seekers of

> > Vedic Wisdom with the most colossal store of wisdom of all times.

> > I challenge all Post-Vedics to prove the contrary. On my part, I will

> > present the Vedic content of the tropical zodiac; let any one or all of them

> > put forth whatever wisdom of the same standard that they have come upon in

> > the study of this ancient and contemporary Art.

> > To end with one important aspect of the Vedic wisdom, I will refer to the

> > apex of the Rishi's quest once again, Capricorn/Makar/Brahma – providing

> > proof based on higher knowledge of the Vedic order to support the statement

> > that Capricorn cannot be separated from the Solstice as is currently being

> > done, a method SKB upholds. Again, I must ask, on what basis?

> > Here is the reason why not only was it held as the rasi/month of Victory and

> > the summit of the Journey, but also exactly why IT CANNOT BE SEPARATED FROM

> > THE TENTH MONTH SOLSTICE. Again, we turn to the Earth for the answer, and

> > this will reveal not only the Earth-centred focus of the true Vedic

> > Astrology but also the practical application of the Art in that the physical

> > reality of our planet's own journey around the Sun, touching quarterly as it

> > does these Cardinal Poles of Equinoxes and Solstices, very accurately

> > describes exactly what that culmination meant and why it had to be in

> > consonance with the actual structure of our very own solar system and its

> > harmonies. What I will describe will also help us realise why Bhisma chose

> > to leave this plane on no other date but the December Solstice, the shortest

> > day of the year. For the fact is only at that precise time is a `portal'

> > opened to the land of the Immortals. The physical reality is our best

> > indication of exactly what the Rishis experienced when they attained

> > Immortality, remaining forever after to preside over the fortunes of Bharat

> > from that eternal plane.

> > The light of the Sun is compressed at that precise moment of the solstice;

> > the shortest day reveals this compression to a point. This is what the

> > Rishis and Bhisma achieved after much diligent and difficult tapasya.

> > Indeed, after they had successfully completed the Journey as explained in

> > detail in the Vedic Myth and the Hymns. Compression of the

> > consciousness-being to a point was and remains the key. And only those who

> > have experienced this compaction can understand (hence, the Rishi asks `Who

> > can comprehend this?). Bhisma then, in full conscious-ness, crossed the

> > threshold through that Point to the land of the Immortals and remained ever

> > connected to this Earth plane, just as the Rishis of old had done.

> > I repeat that this, my friends, is the reason why it is inadmissible that we

> > continue to extol the scientific imposition of a separation between zodiacal

> > signs and the Earth-centred harmonies of our system in favour of the

> > constellations.

> >

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

December 18, 2009

parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote:

Dear Bhupendra Jamnadasji,

Thank you fo your interest in the issue.You know uttarayan is a changing point

every year with respect to the stars. But the stars like dhanistha or makar

sankranti are fixed points, which can be seen by the naked eyes. So it was

convenient to fix the sun in dhanistha position, as uttarayan for convenience of

observation during Vedanga jyotish days.It was also convenient to fix makar

sankranti as uttarayan during the early century of Vikram Sambat.Once it was

fixed, these points remained as nirayan uttarayan for a very long time say one

thousand to two thousand years.In fact it wsa a necessary convenience.

It was also costumary to fix separate uttarayan dates by lunar tithi.During

Vedanga jyotish they fixed Maagha sukla pratipada to represent uttarayan. And

during sidhant period they fixed Poush purnima as the lunar uttarayan.These

lunar dates fluctuated over a month due to adhimas. Thus as these tithis

fluctuated over a region, which contained the actual uttarayan they did not find

it necessary to shift the nirayn uttarayan with the sun fixed at certain star,

frequently.Thus you are quite right when you say that they were quite elaborate

and did not do so only for conveneience.I fully agree with you. But the method

they followed were not only convenient but also elaboraate and exactly

meaningful. I do agree with you.Only for people who did not understand like

shri Kaulji I used the word convenience, so he may understand some aspect at

least.

Regards,

Hari Malla

- In HinduCalendar , Bhupendra Jamnadas <b_jamnadas@> wrote:

>

> Namaste Hari mala Ji,

>

> Could not avoid noticing this exchange between you and AK Kaul Ji. What you

are suggesting here is that for convenience purpose only, the scriptures have

indicate 1st day Makar Sanskranti to mark the beginning of Uttarayana. Since

Makar sankranti itself is never on the same lunar date year after year, what

additional convenience is to be gained by taking Makar Sankranti to indicate the

start of Uttarayan? Since Uttarayan like makar sankranti is also not going to be

on the same lunar data year after year, might as well mark a separate date on

the lunar calender for uttarayan just like makar sanskranti. If the scriptures

are out convenience trying to bundle to 2 events in a single calender event, it

seems very dubious and indicates scriptures that were doctored by people who

somehow were trying to fit these events into their methematical model and were

having trouble syncing their calculations with actual phenomena of the shortest

day.

>

> Our scriptures are very elaborate, it does not make sense that just out of

convenience, these 2 events are bundled into one for the sake simpler calender.

There is something definitely wrong here.

>

> Regards,

> Bhupendra.

>

> ________________________________

> hari <harimalla@>

> HinduCalendar

> Wed, December 16, 2009 1:48:30 AM

> [HinduCalendar] Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet

>

> Â

> Dear shri Kaulji,

> Namskar! I again find your patience is exhausted. I will not trouble you much

more. Nonetheless, I would like to request you to confirm one fact, so the truth

is clarified. Between makar sankranti and uttarayana let us find which is the

primary horse and which is the secondary cart.The question is what do the

shastras say? Does uttrayan start from makar sankranti or does makar sankranti

start from uttarayan? If the first part is true then makar sankranti is nirayan,

if the second part is true then makar sankranti is sayan.Kindly confirm from the

sidhantas and puranas which is true, whether it is uttarayan which starts from

makar sankranti or makar sankranti starts from uttarayan.

> With this test your confusion will surely vanish. Thank you for your last

patience.My point is uttarayan starts from makar sakranti,(refer: The six months

of uttaryna is from makar sankranti to Karkat sankranti-SS) which means that

makar sankranti is the land mark for the start of uttaryan, only for convenience

of daily use, although it may not be exactly true over a long time. This surely

proves that makar sankranti does not start from uttarayan.Kindly check it from

the shastras.Thank you.

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

>

> HinduCalendar, " Krishen " <jyotirved@ ..> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Hari Mallaji,

> > Jai Shri Ram!

> > On reading your post, I regret my decision of allowing the same on this

forum, since all you are interested in is propagating a calendar which you have

a mandate to do, instead of going as per any dharma shastra or purana or

sidhanta! If anyone points out those anachronisms to you, he is " blatantly

misinterpreting the puranas and the sidhantas " according to you.

> > Jai Shri Ram!

> > A K Kaul

> >

> > HinduCalendar, " hari " <harimalla@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear shri Kaulji,

> > > Namaskar!In continuation of my last mail, I add the following comments.

> > > My previous statement:

> > > <This is the classic makar sankranti as uttarayan, along with the shift of

lunar uttrayan from the maaagha sukla pratipada of Vedanga jyotish to Poush full

moon.>

> > > Your comment in reply:

> > > <It is impossible to make either head or tail of your statements! How many

times do I have to remind you that Uttarayana is a geographical phenomenon that

is to be celebrated on the shortest day of the year? There is no lunar

uttarayana! It is up to you whether you call the Uttarayana day makar Sankranti

or Dhanu Sanrkanti or Kumbha Sankranti or no Sankranit at all, though all the

sidhantas and Puranas call Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti! If you do not want

to believe in the Puranas or sidhantas, including the Surya Sidhanta of

Varahamihra, I cannot compel you to do so. >

> > >

> > > You are blatantly misinterpreting the puranas and the sidhantas.The

puranas and sidhantas do not call uttarayan as makar sankranti, but celebrate

uttarayan by makar sankranti by equating one with the other.This equation is the

vedic way of coordinating the tropical and sidereal concepts.

> > > Uttarayan is a geographical event which occurs on the shortest day but is

celebrated on the day near it. The celebration is done on the first day of the

solar and the lunar months like maagha sukla pratipada or makar sankranti which

is the first day of the solar maagha. Since these months are attached to the

rashis and nakshyatras, which are thus nirayan or not moving with the

seasons,the days of celebrations do not fall on the actual uttarayan date which

is tropical or seasonal. Solar uttarayan, known as uttaryan sankranti in dharma

shastras, is the first day of the solar month of maagha. Lunar uttarayan tithi

falls on the first day of the lunar month of maagha.At present the lunar

uttarayan is celebrated on poush purnima, which is one day previous to the lunar

purnimanta month of maagha (maagha krishna pratipada). We thus celebrate

uttaryan not on the actual uttarayan date which may fall on any date, but only

on the first day of solar and\or lunar

> month. This is the basis given by all the sidhantas and puranas. This is

certainly so, only if you do not misinterpret these dates to be tropical

uttarayan date. This is also confirmed by the practice itself.Please read Dharma

sindhu, which talk of both the solar and the lunar seasons.

> > > Our shastras prohibit us, not to celebrate on the actual uttarayan

date.The reason given for this is that the uttarayan date being related to the

earth axis is tilted further away from the lunar pole than the eliptic pole. The

lunar pole and the ecliptic pole are closer being separated by only 5 degrees.

This has been explained by a story which says Brahmaji (dhruva bindu) is not to

be worshipped because he pretended or lied, to have touched the top of the lunar

pole, known as jyotir linga of lord Shiva. This means that dhurva bindu is not

the highest point, but the lunar pole or ecliptic pole near it, is higher.

> > >

> > > <Similarly, it is again up to you as to whether you call the Uttarayana

Day as the start of Tapah month or solar Magha month as desired by the VJ. If

you want to call that by some other name, I cannot compel you not to do so,

though all the sidhantas and Puranas say that the month of solar Tapah and magha

start from the day of Uttarayana!>

> > >

> > > Sorry to differ form your interpretation of VJ. VJ says that uttarayan

occurs when the sun is in dhanistha, or when it is maagha(or tapa) sukla

pratipada.Thus uttarayn date is not the start of tapa sukla pratipada but tapa

sukla pratipada is the representative day of uttarayan (ie.is assumed to be

uttrayan for the civil celebrations) . Tapa sukla pratipada touches uttarayan

date while it fluctuates back and forth during the fluctuation caused by the

adhimases. The lunar uttarayan date, tapa sukla pratipada touches both the solar

uttarayan date of 'sun in dhanistha' and the actual uttarayan.

> > >

> > > <Similarly, it is for you to decide as to what name you would like to give

to the Purnima preceding or succeeding the Winter Solstice, though all the

Puranas say that we must call the preceding Purnima as Pausha Shukla Purnima and

succeeding Purnima as Magha Shukla Purnima.>

> > >

> > > You have also gone out of tract here.Please learn to give up the idea of

purnima succeeding or preceding uttarayan.'Utttarya n purnima' is that purnima

which goes both before and after uttarayan.Also tapa sukla pratipada or

'uttarayan pratipada' is the pratipada which goes both before and after

uttarayan.This will be clear if you analyse the flucatuation of the uttarayan

tithi in the various eras both vedanga and sidhanta.During vedanga jyotish,

maagha sukla pratipada went both before and after uttarayan, thus it was the

uttarayan pratipada or tithi. In sidhanta period poush purnima 15 days before

maagha sukla pratipada, went both before and after uttarayan.Thus this was the

uttarayan tithi and maagha snana was celebrated on this date. These will be

clear if you study the scientific basis of calendar reform given by a drawing in

the prvasudhar forum. Unless you learn to study this drawing you will be in

confusion for a long time more.SO kindly study

> this drawing.The drawings are many times more helpful than the words to

understand facts.

> > >

> > > <This is also evident by the Maagha snana we are still celebrating on

Poush purnima. Please refer to dharma shastras.>

> > >

> > > <Again the same confusing and confounding statements! How can any dharma

shastra advise you to celebrate Magha snana on Pausha Purnima since then it

would advise you to celebrate Vaishkha snana on Chaitra Purnima and so on. Pl.

do not expose your motives all the more byt ascribing such ignorance to

dharmashatras! >

> > >

> > > Shall I say ignorance is bliss! Please read Dharma sindhu and confirm that

it is indeed so.Vaisakh snana is prescribed from the Chaitra purnima day.You

have really hit the mark this time.Please read and confirm that Kartik snana is

also prescribed from the Aswin purnima date.This was the system introduced from

the sidhanta period for the four 'lunar' cardinal points.This will be a great

discovery for you in your calendar reform efforts.How nicely you are coming to

the truth, accidentally!

> > >

> > > <So my request to specially you shri Kaulji, do not try to spoil our

pristine vedic culture, with the concept brought into effect by Pope Gregory.>

> > >

> > > <Either your memory is proverbially short or you just do not read any

posts except your own! I have demonstrated it already in a different post in

response to a gentleman's insinuation that " Winter Solstice " (uttarayana) is a

Christian festival thrust on the Hindus by Christians, that even the Julian

Calendar, the erstwhile avatar of Gregorian calendar is actually based on the

Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha! Or do you mean to say that even Acharya Lagadha of

fifteenth century BCE was influenced by Pope Gregory of fifteenth century AD?>

> > >

> > > You want to be vedic, no doubt, but inadvertantly copy pope Gregory

mistaking it to be vedic.All your sayan interpretations of the purnas and the

sidhantas are showing this.When Lagadh is saying (nirayan) 'sun in dhanistha'

and lunar maagha sukla pratidpada are to be, as it were, coordinated with

uttarayan, you want to think vedanga jyotish is sayan system like the Gregorain

calendar.

> > >

> > > <Then again, you have yet to prove that the rashi division, whether so

called sayana (which you call Gregorian) or nirayana, which you call shastriac,

has any scientific basis!>

> > >

> > > The rashi division of 30 degrees is man made and has been handy to control

our adhimases and thus the lunar months.These are nirayan months being attached

to the stars.Thus they are sidereal or steller. Since the sun, which really is

fixed, is again rigidly fixed by this circle of stars, divided into 30 degrees

each, they seem to be much more scientific than the months which alterntely take

30 and 31 days. The 12 equal angular artificial division of space is surely the

most scientific way of looking at outer space, which approximates, with the 12

natural lunar months.

> > >

> > > <Above all, would you kindly elucidate your insinuation as to how I am

asking you " to go by the concept brought into effect by Pope Gregory " .>

> > > The purely tropical method is prohibited by our tradition. It is Pope

Gregory who has introduced the purely tropical system, because they have only

solar months to think of. When you forget our coordinative nature of the

tropical and the sidereal systems by the lunar tithis, and want to go purely

tropcial in his footsteps, it does appear, quite an imitation of his system.

> > > Thank you and regards,

> > > Hari Malla

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shri Hari Malla ji,

> > > >

> > > > Jai Shri Ram!

> > > >

> > > > < Perhaps your spelling is more acceptable. If my spelling is not

correct,

> > > > then pardon me.>

> > > >

> > > > It is not a matter of spelling alone! Had you read any works of

> > > > Varahamihria actually yourself, you would not have been flogging a wrong

> > > > horse over such a long period!

> > > >

> > > > <I am trying to quote him in the chapter on Adityacharadhyaya, perhaps

the

> > > > opening verses themselves. If my translation is not exact then also I

> > > > request you to correct me.>

> > > >

> > > > Again the same confusion " perhaps " . Once you read Brihat Samhita fully

and

> > > > compare the discussion of that Uttarayana-cum- Makar Sankranti vis-a-vis

the

> > > > Uttarayana-cum- Makar Sankranti of the Surya Sidhanta of

Panchasidhantika by

> > > > the same author, you will be able to understand as to how Varahamihra

has

> > > > contradicted his own views himself about such phenomena.

> > > >

> > > > < But I am convinced that the intent of the verses, clarifies that

Vedanga

> > > > jyotish was nirayan,'sun at dhanistha' being accepted as the uttrayan

for a

> > > > very long time even nearly till the time of Varaha mihira (spelling is

> > > > yours).>

> > > >

> > > > My dear friend, pl. do read some books on astronomy! Sun in Dhanishtha

> > > > nakshatra is an annual phenomenon and has been going on ever since the

> > > > nakshatras-vis- a-vis the solar movement was recognized! So what is

nirayana

> > > > about it? Similarly, sun is always in one or the other nakshatra! Do you

> > > > mean to say that sun is as such always nirayana? Same is the case with

the

> > > > Moon! That is also in one or the other nakshatra always! Do you mean to

> > > > say that the Moon is always nirayana?

> > > >

> > > > What a confusion!

> > > >

> > > > If there had been any rashis prevailing at the time of the VJ in India,

the

> > > > solar movement would have been recorded vis-a-vis the rashis then during

> > > > that period also.

> > > >

> > > > <The new uttarayan, he accepted after correction was also nirayan since

it

> > > > is effective to this day as our practice shows so.>

> > > >

> > > > Again another confusing statement! " Old uttarayana " was nirayana because

> > > > that was in some nakshtra! " New Uttarayana " also is nirayana because it

is

> > > > in some rashi! Or do you mean to say that if it had been in some rashi

> > > > instead of nakshatra at the time of the VJ, it would not have been

nirayana

> > > > then?

> > > >

> > > > Again, What is nirayana? " New Uttarayana " or makar Sankranti according

to

> > > > you? If it is uttarayana, whether " new " or " old " , you are again talking

> > > > through your hat since Uttarayana is a geographical phenomenon that has

been

> > > > going on from the dawn of creation and will continue till doomsday! It

will

> > > > always fall in one or the other nakshatra! So to qualify it as nirayana

or

> > > > sayana is to exhibit one's ignorance.

> > > >

> > > > If Makar Sankranti is nirayana according to you, that is just your

> > > > prerogative to consider it so! Rashis being imaginary divisions of

> > > > imaginary circles can be nirayana or sayana or co-ordinated or

disjointed or

> > > > whatever, depending on the " state of mind " of the beholder.

> > > >

> > > > <This is the classic makar sankranti as uttarayan, along with the shift

of

> > > > lunar uttrayan from the maaagha sukla pratipada of Vedanga jyotish to

Poush

> > > > full moon.>

> > > >

> > > > It is impossible to make either head or tail of your statements! How

many

> > > > times do I have to remind you that Uttarayana is a geographical

phenomenon

> > > > that is to be celebrated on the shortest day of the year? There is no

lunar

> > > > uttarayana! It is up to you whether you call the Uttarayana day makar

> > > > Sankranti or Dhanu Sanrkanti or Kumbha Sankranti or no Sankranit at all,

> > > > though all the sidhantas and Puranas call Uttarayana day as Makar

Sankranti!

> > > > If you do not want to believe in the Puranas or sidhantas, including the

> > > > Surya Sidhanta of Varahamihra, I cannot compel you to do so.

> > > >

> > > > Similarly, it is again up to you as to whether you call the Uttarayana

Day

> > > > as the start of Tapah month or solar Magha month as desired by the VJ.

If

> > > > you want to call that by some other name, I cannot compel you not to do

so,

> > > > though all the sidhantas and Puranas say that the month of solar Tapah

and

> > > > magha start from the day of Uttarayana!

> > > >

> > > > Similarly, it is for you to decide as to what name you would like to

give to

> > > > the Purnima preceding or succeeding the Winter Solstice, though all the

> > > > Puranas say that we must call the preceding Purnima as Pausha Shukla

> > > > Purnima and succeeding Purnima as Magha Shukla Purnima.

> > > >

> > > > <This is also evident by the Maagha snana we are still celebrating on

Poush

> > > > purnima. Please refer to dharma shastras.>

> > > >

> > > > Again the same confusing and confounding statements! How can any dharma

> > > > shastra advise you to celebrate Magha snana on Pausha Purnima since then

it

> > > > would advise you to celebrate Vaishkha snana on Chaitra Purnima and so

on.

> > > > Pl. do not expose your motives all the more byt ascribing such ignorance

to

> > > > dharmashatras!

> > > >

> > > > <So my request to specially you shri Kaulji, do not try to spoil our

> > > > pristine vedic culture, with the concept brought into effect by Pope

> > > > Gregory.>

> > > >

> > > > Either your memory is proverbially short or you just do not read any

posts

> > > > except your own! I have demonstrated it already in a different post in

> > > > response to a gentleman's insinuation that " Winter Solstice "

(uttarayana) is

> > > > a Christian festival thrust on the Hindus by Christians, that even the

> > > > Julian Calendar, the erstwhile avatar of Gregorian calendar is actually

> > > > based on the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha! Or do you mean to say that

even

> > > > Acharya Lagadha of fifteenth century BCE was influenced by Pope Gregory

of

> > > > fifteenth century AD?

> > > >

> > > > Then again, you have yet to prove that the rashi division, whether so

called

> > > > sayana (which you call Gregorian) or nirayana, which you call shastriac,

has

> > > > any scientific basis!

> > > >

> > > > Above all, would you kindly elucidate your insinuation as to how I am

asking

> > > > you " to go by the concept brought into effect by Pope Gregory " .

> > > >

> > > > Jai Shri Ram!

> > > >

> > > > AKK

> > > >

> > > > HinduCalendar, " hari " <harimalla@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Shri Kaulji,

> > > >

> > > > > Namskar! Yes you are right. I mean him. Perhaps your spelling is more

> > > > acceptable.If my spelling is not corrrect, then pardon me. It is him who

> > > > wrote Brihad Samhita. I am trying to qouote him in the chapter on

> > > > Adityacharadhyaya, perhaps the opening verses themsielves. If my

translation

> > > > is not exact then also I request you to correct me.

> > > >

> > > > > But I am convinced that the intent of the verses, clarifies that

Vedanga

> > > > jyotish was nirayan,'sun at dhanistha' being accepted as the uttrayan

for a

> > > > very long time even nearly till the time of Varaha mihira (spelling is

> > > > yours).The new uttarayan, he accepted after correction was also nirayan

> > > > since it is effective to this day as our practice shows so.This is the

> > > > classic makar sankranti as uttarayan,along with the shift of lunar

uttrayan

> > > > from the maaagha sukla pratipada of Vedanga jyotish to Poush full

moon.This

> > > > is also evidint by the Maagha snana we are still celebrating on Poush

> > > > purnima.Please refer to dharma shastras.

> > > >

> > > > > Similarly, we must now fix a new nirayan uttarayan which is close to

the

> > > > present day tropical uttarayan which now falls not in the range of

puoush

> > > > purnima but of mrigasira purnima. This would be in the footsteps of our

past

> > > > reformations rather than succcumbing to the modern method of Pope

Gregory,

> > > > whose culture is quite different from our culture, since they do not tie

up

> > > > the sun and the moon with the help of adhimases and the stars too. Mind

> > > > you,I am not in favour of indefinite nityanness like many astorlogers.

But

> > > > my view is that, the new nirayn sankranti should be close to the present

> > > > tropical sankranti so that although they are slightly different,but

since

> > > > they both fall within the same fullmoon zone would give the correct

seasons

> > > > to the tithis, which are the real basis of our celebrations. I feel that

> > > > those who advocate the sayan system or exactly season based as you say,

are

> > > > not really aware of the importance of the nirayan tithis and their tie

up

> > > > with the stars.Tying up the fullmoons with the stars and naming the

months

> > > > as such seems to be older than Vedanga jyotish and is the very

foundation of

> > > > our culture.

> > > >

> > > > > So my request to specially you shri Kaulji, do not try to spoil our

> > > > pristine vedic culture, with the concept brought into effect by Pope

> > > > Gregory.

> > > >

> > > > > Thanks and Regards,

> > > >

> > > > > Hari Malla

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > , " Krishen " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Shri Hari Malla ji,

> > > >

> > > > > > Jai Shri Ram!

> > > >

> > > > > > < What I know is Barahmihir says>

> > > >

> > > > > > Who is this chap " Barahamihr " who is your pet flogging horse? I have

> > > > never heard about him! Was he anyway related to Varahamihira, who is

said to

> > > > have compiled " Panchasidhanitka " etc. books in about fifth century AD?

> > > >

> > > > > > Jai Shri Ram!

> > > >

> > > > > > AKK

> > > >

> > > > > > , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Bhattacharyaji,

> > > >

> > > > > > > What I know is Barahmihir says the 'sun in dhanistha'position as

the

> > > > start of uttarayan, was too old a concept then at his time and the

> > > > occurrence of uttarayan with the sun at makar sankranti was logical and

> > > > could be proved by checking practically. '

> > > >

> > > > > > > Start of Uttarayan with sun at makar sankranti (beginning of makar

> > > > rashi) occurred around 285 AD, as accepted nowadays. One month shift of

> > > > uttarayan occurs in around 2150 years. Thus around 2150-285 = 1865 BC

> > > > becomes the year when uttarayan occurred at the end of makar rashi, 30

> > > > degrees after the beginning of makar rashi. Before that time, uttarayan

> > > > occurred when the sun was in Kumbha rashi and not in makar rashi.

Dakhinsysn

> > > > started when the sun was in Karkat rashi in 285 AD, which means in 1865

BC,

> > > > it started when the sun was in the end of Karkat rashi. Before that

> > > > dakhinayan started when the sun was in Simha rashi.Thus at around 32

century

> > > > BCE uttarayan started when the sun was in Simha rashi. This is the

simple

> > > > mathematics I can explain.

> > > >

> > > > > > > The rest of the fantastic assumtions, explanations and

calculations

> > > > that dakhinayan occurred when the sun entered makar rashi in 32nd

century

> > > > BCE, I leave to you, shri Bhattacharyaji to explain. So please go ahead

and

> > > > explain whatever you have assumed, by challenging yourself. I will

surely

> > > > read it. Do not challenge me to do such silly task.

> > > >

> > > > > > > Hari Malla

> > > >

> > >

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--- End forwarded message ---

December 18, 2009