Guest guest Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote: Dear Kaulji and Bhattachryaji, Namaskar! If you do not mind let me try to answer to Kaulji's question to satistfy both shri Kaulji and shri Bhattacharyaji if they are ready to compromise and discontinue to quarrel endlessly for the sake of the common hindus.Please note that the longer you stick to your unending debates you are making the people suffer for a longer time. They may not like to accept it but that is the vedic truth which is reflected both in the vedanga jyotish, sidhanta jyotish and also in the purranas. <1. As all the siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti, would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why?> Makar sankranti as uttarayan is the nirayan uttarayan evident from the costumary celebrations.There is no doubt about this. But since uttarayan is also shifting and we do not shift makar sankranti,it is OK as long as the difference between them is within tolerable limits.What is the tolerable limit and what defines it? The tolerable limit is 15 days and comes from the main basis of the festivals. This is yet another type of date, which in the modern times we are not used to- the lunar uttarayan date.This is poush purnima which is the maagha snana representing the uttarayan tithi.This is clarified by the dharma shastras like Dharma sindhu, which do not mislead. I have found that those who have studied only sidhnata jyotish say that there is no lunar seasons; but the Dharma shatras clearly say the lunar seasons are to be given priority.Shri Kaulji and Bhattaharyaji both do not seem to have referred to Dharma shastras. Thus my request to them to please go through them too, so you can have clear knowldege of the festivals.Darshaney lokeshji has also asserted that there is no lunar seasons. I request him also to go through these shastras. Thus when makar sankrnti is said to be uttrayan it is coordinating both the sayan and the nirayn concepts.The fact that this coordination is done by the lunar tithi should be understood because the actual celebration of festivasls is done by lunar tithis.Also lunar tithi is given first priority by the dharma shastras even to indicate th seasons.This is more clear from vedanga jyotish since then uttarayan ws celebrated on maagha sukla pratipada instead of poush purnima, which was and still is, the uttarayan tithi since the sidhanta period. thankyou for your considerations. Hari Malla HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya has said, “Puranas have not talked about Sayana rashi chakra. Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your bluffs.†> > > > This request is, as such, for the rest of the members except for Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya! > > 1. As all the siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti, would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why? > > 2. As all the siddhantas and Puranas tell us that Vishuva is the day when day is equal to night and those very days are known as Mesha and Tula Sankrantis, would you call such Tula and Mesha Sankrantis as nirayana or sayana and why? > > 3. As all the siddhantas and puranas tell us that Dakshinayana Day i.e. Summer Solstice is the longest day of the year and that very day is known as Karkata Sankranti, would you call such a Karkata Sankranti as nirayana or sayana and why? > > 4. As all the siddhantaqs and puranas tell us that the lunar months Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. months, which are also known as Madhu, Madhava etc months, start immediately after the Mina and Mesha Sankrantis etc. what would you call such synodic months, especially since Chaitra and Vaishakha have been named as the two months of Vasanta Ritu; Jyeshtha and Ashada as the two months of Grishma Ritu and so on? > > 5. As the Tantra Shastras tell us that the day is the shortest when it is Makar Sankranti, longest when it is Karkata Sankranti and so on, would you call such Tantra-shastra Makar and Karkata Sankrntis as Sayana or nirayana? > > 6. As Alberuni says that in the eleventh century India, Makar Sankranti was being celebrated on the shortest day of the year after the ayanamsha corrections had been introduced by Munjala through his Laghumanasa, what would you call such a Makar Sankranti and so on. > > In fact, I could go on citing hundreds if not thousands of such instances, but I am sure the above sample is more than enough to give a clear picture of the system of rashis, whether so called sayana or so called nirayana, that India was following till a couple of centuries back, whatever people like Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya may say. > > Jai Shri Ram. > > A K Kaul > > vedic_research_institute , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > > > All the Rashis mentioned in the puranas are Sidereal as shown in the Vamana purana and no other purana had contradicted that. No purana ever said that the rashis are not sidereal. Let Jyotirved show a single statement if any purana specifically mentioned that the Rashis are not sidereeal. All the Rashis mentioned in the Puranas, as quoted by Jyotirved in his BVB6.doc,  are sidereal. His assertions that the Rashis are not sidereal would not change what Vamana purana says about the rashis. The Vamana purana tells us which are the nakshatras in a particular Rashi.. Puranas have not talked about Sayana rashi chakra. Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your bluffs. > > > > Regards, > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Krishen jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > Krishen jyotirved@ > > [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet > > > > Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:22 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > Shri Bhattacharjya has said, " No purana had ever said that the > > > > Uttarayana day is the Makar Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that > > > > the Uttarayana shifts fron nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in > > > > course of time. The Bhagavata Purana was recited before Parikshita in > > > > the 31st century BCE and at that time Makar Sankranti was in the > > > > Dakshinayana and any astronomer worth his salt qwill admit this.. I > > > > mentioned that in my earlier mail and Jyotirved ignores that to his > > > > convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on toleratingsuch bluffs after > > > > bluffs. " > > > > > > > > Just to refresh Shri Bhattacharjya' s memory, I am quoting just a few > > > > excerpts from BVB6.doc so that the forum members can see it for > > > > themsleves that the Puranas and also the sidhantas talk invariably of a > > > > so called Sayana Rashichakra when they say that on the day of Mesha > > > > Sankranti day is equal to night and so on. > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram. > > > > > > > > ******** ******** > > > > ****** > > > > > > > > 5. Puranas: I have already quoted hundreds of proofs with > > > > chapter and verse in my Panchangas and other articles. It is no use to > > > > repeat them here again. Suffice to quote a few only from a couple of > > > > Puranas. First the Vishnupurana: 2/8/28-31 and 67-68 > > > > > > > > ayanasyotarasyadav makaram yati bhaskarah > > > > > > > > tatah kumbham cha menam cha rashe rashyantaram dvija > > > > (28) > > > > > > > > trishu eteshu atha bhukteshu tato vaishuvatim gatim > > > > > > > > prayati savita kurvan ahoratram tatah samam > > > > (29) > > > > > > > > tato ratrih kshayam yati vardhate anudinam dinam > > > > (30) > > > > > > > > tatashcha mithunasyante param kashtham upagatah > > > > > > > > rashim karkatam prapya kurute dakshinayanam > > > > (31) > > > > > > > > " In the beginning of Uttarayana, the sun enters > > > > Capricorn (Makara Rashi) there from going to Kumbha and them Mina. After > > > > having passed through these three signs, it just gains vishuvati > > > > (equinoctial) speed resulting in the day and night being equal on Mesha. > > > > After that, nights start decreasing and the days increasing > > > > correspondingly daily. Then when the sun is in the end of Mithuna Rashi, > > > > i.e. when it is just at the verge of entering Cancer, the day is the > > > > longest then and Dakshnayana starts on that date " . > > > > > > > > Sharad vsantyor Madhye vishuvam to vibhavyete > > > > > > > > Tula mesh gate bhanav samratri divam tu tat > > > > (67) > > > > > > > > Karkatavasthite bhanav dakshiyanamuchete > > > > > > > > Uttarayanam api uktam makarasthe divakare > > > > (88) > > > > > > > > " In the midst of sharat ritu and vasanta ritu, vishuvas (equinoxes) > > > > take place with the entry of the sun into Tula (Libra) and Mesha (Aries) > > > > respectively and days and nights become equal on those two sankrantis. > > > > The entry of sun into Cancer (Karkata) is known as dakshinayana whereas > > > > its entry into Maraka is known as Uttarayana " > > > > > > > > Now Shrimadbhagavata, 5/21/4-6 > > > > > > > > yada mesh tulyor vartate tada ahoratrani samanani bhavanti yada > > > > vrishadishu panchasu cha rashishu charati tada ahani eva vardhante > > > > hrasati cha masi masi ekaika ghatika ratrishu (4) yada > > > > vrishchikadishu panchasu vartate tada ahoratrani viparyayani bhavanti > > > > (5) yavad dakshinayanam ahani vardhante yavad uttarayanam ratrayah > > > > (6) > > > > > > > > " When the sun enters Mesha and Tula days and nights are equal on > > > > those dates and the day starts getting longer as compared to nights when > > > > the sun passes through Vrisha etc. five rashis then days keep on > > > > increasing and the nights decreasing by one ghati every month. (After > > > > the day and night have become equal on Tula Sankranti) the nights keep > > > > on increasing during the sojourn of five rashis of Vrishchika etc. In > > > > short, during Uttarayana days keep on increasing till Dakshinayana and > > > > after that nights keep on increasing " . > > > > > > > > Vishnurhdarmotarapu rana 3/8/6-8 says > > > > > > > > tula meshagate bhanav vishuvad dinam uchete, > > > > > > > > dhanvato mithunantashcha ayane soasya dakshine, > > > > > > > > " When the sun is in Mesha and Tula, they are the days of Vishuva > > > > i.e. days and nights are equal then. From the end of Dhanu (start of > > > > Makara) Uttarayana starts and from the end of Mithuna (start of Karkata) > > > > Dakshniyana starts " > > > > > > > > Any discussion on such topics is incomplete without appropriate > > > > references from Shivamahapurana: We just quote one 5/51/54 from this > > > > Purana below: > > > > > > > > madhavasya site pakshe tritiya ya akshayabida > > > > > > > > tasyam yo jagadambayah vratam kuryad atandritah… > > > > > > > > " The tritiya of Shukla paksha of Madhava (!) is know as akshayaya > > > > tritiya. One who observes a fast for Jagadamba on that date (gets > > > > immortal and thousand fold results) " > > > > > > > > It is to be noted here that Akshaya tritiya is to be > > > > observed in (lunar) Madhava that means according to Shiva-Mahapurana > > > > also Vaishakha does not have any other existence besides Madhava! Thus > > > > the akshyaya tritiya that we observed in 2003 on May 4, was against all > > > > the shastras since solar Madhava had ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava > > > > on April 30! A similar situation is going to crop up in 2005. We will > > > > be asked to celebrate Akshaya tritiya on May 12, when solar Madhava will > > > > have ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava shukla paksha will start on > > > > April 8, 2005 which means it should be celebrated actually on April 11, > > > > 2005! > > > > > > > > Now obviously, if as per all the Vedas, Vedanga Jyotisha, Surya > > > > Sidhanta, Bhagavata, Vishnupurana, Vishnudharmotarapur ana and Shiva > > > > Mahapurana etc. etc. solar Shravana is another name of Dakshinayana viz > > > > sun in Karkata, it starts on June 21 in 2004. The first shukla pratipat > > > > after that is on July 18. Therefore, that is the day when the Lunar > > > > Shravana starts in 2004 as per all the Vedas and Puranas etc. As such, > > > > Shravana Purnima viz Raksha Bandhan and Amarnath Yatra etc. should be > > > > celebrated on July 31 in 2004. Why are our panchangakars asking us to > > > > celebrate it on August 29 instead? Only because they treat the entire > > > > Hindu society as ignorant fools who have no idea about the criteria of > > > > any festivals! Or is it that the panchangakars do not know anything > > > > themselves but are just copying from others like blind following blind? > > > > > > > > End excerpt > > > > > > > > ******* ********* > > > > ******* > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > Jyotirved gives another bluff when he says as follows " > > > > > > > > > > ///  Surprisingly, all the Puranas and sidhantas (and not the > > > > Vedas or the VJ!) call that very Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti! > > > >  /// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No purana had ever said that the Uttarayana day is the Makar > > > > Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that the Uttarayana shifts fron > > > > nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in course of time. The Bhagavata > > > > Purana was recited before Parikshita in the 31st century BCE and at that > > > > time Makar Sankranti was in the Dakshinayana and any astronomer > > > > worth his salt qwill admit this.. I mentioned that in my earlier mail > > > > and Jyotirved ignores that to his convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on > > > > toleratingsuch bluffs after bluffs. > > > > > > > > > > Secondly since Jyotirved does not believe in Sidereal Makar > > > > Sankranti he has no business to poke his long nose into the million > > > > dollar question. Let the believers discuss such points and not > > > > Jyotirved. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattachatrjya > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, jyotirved jyotirved@ . wrote: > > > > > > > > > > jyotirved jyotirved@ . > > > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia > > > > Norelli-Bachelet > > > > > > > > > > Cc: hinducalendar, " 'subash razdan' " subashrazdan@ ..., > > > > vedic_research_ institute, > > > > indiaarchaeology > > > > > Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:57 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Do not continue your nonsense in the name of the Dharmashastras. Just quote one single Sanskrit verse with reference to substantiate your point of view. --- On Mon, 12/7/09, hari <harimalla wrote: hari <harimalla Fwd: The views of PNB! Monday, December 7, 2009, 6:41 PM  parvasudhar2065, " hari " <harimalla@. ..> wrote: Dear Kaulji and Bhattachryaji, Namaskar! If you do not mind let me try to answer to Kaulji's question to satistfy both shri Kaulji and shri Bhattacharyaji if they are ready to compromise and discontinue to quarrel endlessly for the sake of the common hindus.Please note that the longer you stick to your unending debates you are making the people suffer for a longer time. They may not like to accept it but that is the vedic truth which is reflected both in the vedanga jyotish, sidhanta jyotish and also in the purranas. <1. As all the siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti, would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why?> Makar sankranti as uttarayan is the nirayan uttarayan evident from the costumary celebrations. There is no doubt about this. But since uttarayan is also shifting and we do not shift makar sankranti,it is OK as long as the difference between them is within tolerable limits.What is the tolerable limit and what defines it? The tolerable limit is 15 days and comes from the main basis of the festivals. This is yet another type of date, which in the modern times we are not used to- the lunar uttarayan date.This is poush purnima which is the maagha snana representing the uttarayan tithi.This is clarified by the dharma shastras like Dharma sindhu, which do not mislead. I have found that those who have studied only sidhnata jyotish say that there is no lunar seasons; but the Dharma shatras clearly say the lunar seasons are to be given priority.Shri Kaulji and Bhattaharyaji both do not seem to have referred to Dharma shastras. Thus my request to them to please go through them too, so you can have clear knowldege of the festivals.Darshaney lokeshji has also asserted that there is no lunar seasons. I request him also to go through these shastras. Thus when makar sankrnti is said to be uttrayan it is coordinating both the sayan and the nirayn concepts.The fact that this coordination is done by the lunar tithi should be understood because the actual celebration of festivasls is done by lunar tithis.Also lunar tithi is given first priority by the dharma shastras even to indicate th seasons.This is more clear from vedanga jyotish since then uttarayan ws celebrated on maagha sukla pratipada instead of poush purnima, which was and still is, the uttarayan tithi since the sidhanta period. thankyou for your considerations. Hari Malla HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya has said, “Puranas have not talked about Sayana rashi chakra. Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your bluffs.†> > > > This request is, as such, for the rest of the members except for Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya! > > 1. As all the siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti, would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why? > > 2. As all the siddhantas and Puranas tell us that Vishuva is the day when day is equal to night and those very days are known as Mesha and Tula Sankrantis, would you call such Tula and Mesha Sankrantis as nirayana or sayana and why? > > 3. As all the siddhantas and puranas tell us that Dakshinayana Day i.e. Summer Solstice is the longest day of the year and that very day is known as Karkata Sankranti, would you call such a Karkata Sankranti as nirayana or sayana and why? > > 4. As all the siddhantaqs and puranas tell us that the lunar months Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. months, which are also known as Madhu, Madhava etc months, start immediately after the Mina and Mesha Sankrantis etc. what would you call such synodic months, especially since Chaitra and Vaishakha have been named as the two months of Vasanta Ritu; Jyeshtha and Ashada as the two months of Grishma Ritu and so on? > > 5. As the Tantra Shastras tell us that the day is the shortest when it is Makar Sankranti, longest when it is Karkata Sankranti and so on, would you call such Tantra-shastra Makar and Karkata Sankrntis as Sayana or nirayana? > > 6. As Alberuni says that in the eleventh century India, Makar Sankranti was being celebrated on the shortest day of the year after the ayanamsha corrections had been introduced by Munjala through his Laghumanasa, what would you call such a Makar Sankranti and so on. > > In fact, I could go on citing hundreds if not thousands of such instances, but I am sure the above sample is more than enough to give a clear picture of the system of rashis, whether so called sayana or so called nirayana, that India was following till a couple of centuries back, whatever people like Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya may say. > > Jai Shri Ram. > > A K Kaul > > vedic_research_ institute, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a@> wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > > > All the Rashis mentioned in the puranas are Sidereal as shown in the Vamana purana and no other purana had contradicted that. No purana ever said that the rashis are not sidereal. Let Jyotirved show a single statement if any purana specifically mentioned that the Rashis are not sidereeal. All the Rashis mentioned in the Puranas, as quoted by Jyotirved in his BVB6.doc,  are sidereal. His assertions that the Rashis are not sidereal would not change what Vamana purana says about the rashis. The Vamana purana tells us which are the nakshatras in a particular Rashi.. Puranas have not talked about Sayana rashi chakra. Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your bluffs. > > > > Regards, > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Krishen jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > Krishen jyotirved@ > > [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet > > > > Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:22 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > Shri Bhattacharjya has said, " No purana had ever said that the > > > > Uttarayana day is the Makar Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that > > > > the Uttarayana shifts fron nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in > > > > course of time. The Bhagavata Purana was recited before Parikshita in > > > > the 31st century BCE and at that time Makar Sankranti was in the > > > > Dakshinayana and any astronomer worth his salt qwill admit this.. I > > > > mentioned that in my earlier mail and Jyotirved ignores that to his > > > > convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on toleratingsuch bluffs after > > > > bluffs. " > > > > > > > > Just to refresh Shri Bhattacharjya' s memory, I am quoting just a few > > > > excerpts from BVB6.doc so that the forum members can see it for > > > > themsleves that the Puranas and also the sidhantas talk invariably of a > > > > so called Sayana Rashichakra when they say that on the day of Mesha > > > > Sankranti day is equal to night and so on. > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram. > > > > > > > > ******** ******** > > > > ****** > > > > > > > > 5. Puranas: I have already quoted hundreds of proofs with > > > > chapter and verse in my Panchangas and other articles. It is no use to > > > > repeat them here again. Suffice to quote a few only from a couple of > > > > Puranas. First the Vishnupurana: 2/8/28-31 and 67-68 > > > > > > > > ayanasyotarasyadav makaram yati bhaskarah > > > > > > > > tatah kumbham cha menam cha rashe rashyantaram dvija > > > > (28) > > > > > > > > trishu eteshu atha bhukteshu tato vaishuvatim gatim > > > > > > > > prayati savita kurvan ahoratram tatah samam > > > > (29) > > > > > > > > tato ratrih kshayam yati vardhate anudinam dinam > > > > (30) > > > > > > > > tatashcha mithunasyante param kashtham upagatah > > > > > > > > rashim karkatam prapya kurute dakshinayanam > > > > (31) > > > > > > > > " In the beginning of Uttarayana, the sun enters > > > > Capricorn (Makara Rashi) there from going to Kumbha and them Mina. After > > > > having passed through these three signs, it just gains vishuvati > > > > (equinoctial) speed resulting in the day and night being equal on Mesha. > > > > After that, nights start decreasing and the days increasing > > > > correspondingly daily. Then when the sun is in the end of Mithuna Rashi, > > > > i.e. when it is just at the verge of entering Cancer, the day is the > > > > longest then and Dakshnayana starts on that date " . > > > > > > > > Sharad vsantyor Madhye vishuvam to vibhavyete > > > > > > > > Tula mesh gate bhanav samratri divam tu tat > > > > (67) > > > > > > > > Karkatavasthite bhanav dakshiyanamuchete > > > > > > > > Uttarayanam api uktam makarasthe divakare > > > > (88) > > > > > > > > " In the midst of sharat ritu and vasanta ritu, vishuvas (equinoxes) > > > > take place with the entry of the sun into Tula (Libra) and Mesha (Aries) > > > > respectively and days and nights become equal on those two sankrantis. > > > > The entry of sun into Cancer (Karkata) is known as dakshinayana whereas > > > > its entry into Maraka is known as Uttarayana " > > > > > > > > Now Shrimadbhagavata, 5/21/4-6 > > > > > > > > yada mesh tulyor vartate tada ahoratrani samanani bhavanti yada > > > > vrishadishu panchasu cha rashishu charati tada ahani eva vardhante > > > > hrasati cha masi masi ekaika ghatika ratrishu (4) yada > > > > vrishchikadishu panchasu vartate tada ahoratrani viparyayani bhavanti > > > > (5) yavad dakshinayanam ahani vardhante yavad uttarayanam ratrayah > > > > (6) > > > > > > > > " When the sun enters Mesha and Tula days and nights are equal on > > > > those dates and the day starts getting longer as compared to nights when > > > > the sun passes through Vrisha etc. five rashis then days keep on > > > > increasing and the nights decreasing by one ghati every month. (After > > > > the day and night have become equal on Tula Sankranti) the nights keep > > > > on increasing during the sojourn of five rashis of Vrishchika etc. In > > > > short, during Uttarayana days keep on increasing till Dakshinayana and > > > > after that nights keep on increasing " . > > > > > > > > Vishnurhdarmotarapu rana 3/8/6-8 says > > > > > > > > tula meshagate bhanav vishuvad dinam uchete, > > > > > > > > dhanvato mithunantashcha ayane soasya dakshine, > > > > > > > > " When the sun is in Mesha and Tula, they are the days of Vishuva > > > > i.e. days and nights are equal then. From the end of Dhanu (start of > > > > Makara) Uttarayana starts and from the end of Mithuna (start of Karkata) > > > > Dakshniyana starts " > > > > > > > > Any discussion on such topics is incomplete without appropriate > > > > references from Shivamahapurana: We just quote one 5/51/54 from this > > > > Purana below: > > > > > > > > madhavasya site pakshe tritiya ya akshayabida > > > > > > > > tasyam yo jagadambayah vratam kuryad atandritah… > > > > > > > > " The tritiya of Shukla paksha of Madhava (!) is know as akshayaya > > > > tritiya. One who observes a fast for Jagadamba on that date (gets > > > > immortal and thousand fold results) " > > > > > > > > It is to be noted here that Akshaya tritiya is to be > > > > observed in (lunar) Madhava that means according to Shiva-Mahapurana > > > > also Vaishakha does not have any other existence besides Madhava! Thus > > > > the akshyaya tritiya that we observed in 2003 on May 4, was against all > > > > the shastras since solar Madhava had ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava > > > > on April 30! A similar situation is going to crop up in 2005. We will > > > > be asked to celebrate Akshaya tritiya on May 12, when solar Madhava will > > > > have ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava shukla paksha will start on > > > > April 8, 2005 which means it should be celebrated actually on April 11, > > > > 2005! > > > > > > > > Now obviously, if as per all the Vedas, Vedanga Jyotisha, Surya > > > > Sidhanta, Bhagavata, Vishnupurana, Vishnudharmotarapur ana and Shiva > > > > Mahapurana etc. etc. solar Shravana is another name of Dakshinayana viz > > > > sun in Karkata, it starts on June 21 in 2004. The first shukla pratipat > > > > after that is on July 18. Therefore, that is the day when the Lunar > > > > Shravana starts in 2004 as per all the Vedas and Puranas etc. As such, > > > > Shravana Purnima viz Raksha Bandhan and Amarnath Yatra etc. should be > > > > celebrated on July 31 in 2004. Why are our panchangakars asking us to > > > > celebrate it on August 29 instead? Only because they treat the entire > > > > Hindu society as ignorant fools who have no idea about the criteria of > > > > any festivals! Or is it that the panchangakars do not know anything > > > > themselves but are just copying from others like blind following blind? > > > > > > > > End excerpt > > > > > > > > ******* ********* > > > > ******* > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > Jyotirved gives another bluff when he says as follows " > > > > > > > > > > ///  Surprisingly, all the Puranas and sidhantas (and not the > > > > Vedas or the VJ!) call that very Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti! > > > >  /// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No purana had ever said that the Uttarayana day is the Makar > > > > Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that the Uttarayana shifts fron > > > > nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in course of time. The Bhagavata > > > > Purana was recited before Parikshita in the 31st century BCE and at that > > > > time Makar Sankranti was in the Dakshinayana and any astronomer > > > > worth his salt qwill admit this.. I mentioned that in my earlier mail > > > > and Jyotirved ignores that to his convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on > > > > toleratingsuch bluffs after bluffs. > > > > > > > > > > Secondly since Jyotirved does not believe in Sidereal Makar > > > > Sankranti he has no business to poke his long nose into the million > > > > dollar question. Let the believers discuss such points and not > > > > Jyotirved. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattachatrjya > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, jyotirved jyotirved@ . wrote: > > > > > > > > > > jyotirved jyotirved@ . > > > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia > > > > Norelli-Bachelet > > > > > > > > > > Cc: hinducalendar, " 'subash razdan' " subashrazdan@ ..., > > > > vedic_research_ institute, > > > > indiaarchaeology > > > > > Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:57 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Dear Bhattacharyaji, 'When the sun and the moon rise together in dhanistha nakshaytra, ...then uttarayan starts.' This is the classic vedanga jyotish quote in support of my views that tropical and sidereal concepts are coordinated. 'Sun in dhanistha' is sidereal and 'uttaryan' is tropical. Since they are equated coordination is the vedic method of calendar system. When Surya sidhanta says 'Makar sankranti is uttaryan' contiuity is given to that same coordination of sidereal and tropical concepts, at a later stage around 285 AD. 'Makar sanrkanti' is sidereal and 'uttaryan' is tropical.Is there any doubt about this? What say you? Hari Malla , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote: > > Do not continue your nonsense in the name of the Dharmashastras. Just quote one single Sanskrit verse with reference to substantiate your point of view. > > --- On Mon, 12/7/09, hari <harimalla wrote: > > hari <harimalla > Fwd: The views of PNB! > > Monday, December 7, 2009, 6:41 PM >  > > > parvasudhar2065, " hari " <harimalla@ ..> wrote: > > > > Dear Kaulji and Bhattachryaji, > > Namaskar! If you do not mind let me try to answer to Kaulji's question to satistfy both shri Kaulji and shri Bhattacharyaji if they are ready to compromise and discontinue to quarrel endlessly for the sake of the common hindus.Please note that the longer you stick to your unending debates you are making the people suffer for a longer time. > > They may not like to accept it but that is the vedic truth which is reflected both in the vedanga jyotish, sidhanta jyotish and also in the purranas. > > <1. As all the siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti, would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why?> > > > > Makar sankranti as uttarayan is the nirayan uttarayan evident from the costumary celebrations. There is no doubt about this. But since uttarayan is also shifting and we do not shift makar sankranti,it is OK as long as the difference between them is within tolerable limits.What is the tolerable limit and what defines it? The tolerable limit is 15 days and comes from the main basis of the festivals. This is yet another type of date, which in the modern times we are not used to- the lunar uttarayan date.This is poush purnima which is the maagha snana representing the uttarayan tithi.This is clarified by the dharma shastras like Dharma sindhu, which do not mislead. > > I have found that those who have studied only sidhnata jyotish say that there is no lunar seasons; but the Dharma shatras clearly say the lunar seasons are to be given priority.Shri Kaulji and Bhattaharyaji both do not seem to have referred to Dharma shastras. Thus my request to them to please go through them too, so you can have clear knowldege of the festivals.Darshaney lokeshji has also asserted that there is no lunar seasons. I request him also to go through these shastras. > > Thus when makar sankrnti is said to be uttrayan it is coordinating both the sayan and the nirayn concepts.The fact that this coordination is done by the lunar tithi should be understood because the actual celebration of festivasls is done by lunar tithis.Also lunar tithi is given first priority by the dharma shastras even to indicate th seasons.This is more clear from vedanga jyotish since then uttarayan ws celebrated on maagha sukla pratipada instead of poush purnima, which was and still is, the uttarayan tithi since the sidhanta period. > > thankyou for your considerations. > > Hari Malla > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya has said, “Puranas have not talked about Sayana rashi chakra. Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your bluffs.†> > > > > > > > > > > > This request is, as such, for the rest of the members except for Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya! > > > > > > 1. As all the siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti, would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why? > > > > > > 2. As all the siddhantas and Puranas tell us that Vishuva is the day when day is equal to night and those very days are known as Mesha and Tula Sankrantis, would you call such Tula and Mesha Sankrantis as nirayana or sayana and why? > > > > > > 3. As all the siddhantas and puranas tell us that Dakshinayana Day i.e. Summer Solstice is the longest day of the year and that very day is known as Karkata Sankranti, would you call such a Karkata Sankranti as nirayana or sayana and why? > > > > > > 4. As all the siddhantaqs and puranas tell us that the lunar months Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. months, which are also known as Madhu, Madhava etc months, start immediately after the Mina and Mesha Sankrantis etc. what would you call such synodic months, especially since Chaitra and Vaishakha have been named as the two months of Vasanta Ritu; Jyeshtha and Ashada as the two months of Grishma Ritu and so on? > > > > > > 5. As the Tantra Shastras tell us that the day is the shortest when it is Makar Sankranti, longest when it is Karkata Sankranti and so on, would you call such Tantra-shastra Makar and Karkata Sankrntis as Sayana or nirayana? > > > > > > 6. As Alberuni says that in the eleventh century India, Makar Sankranti was being celebrated on the shortest day of the year after the ayanamsha corrections had been introduced by Munjala through his Laghumanasa, what would you call such a Makar Sankranti and so on. > > > > > > In fact, I could go on citing hundreds if not thousands of such instances, but I am sure the above sample is more than enough to give a clear picture of the system of rashis, whether so called sayana or so called nirayana, that India was following till a couple of centuries back, whatever people like Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya may say. > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram. > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > vedic_research_ institute, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > All the Rashis mentioned in the puranas are Sidereal as shown in the Vamana purana and no other purana had contradicted that. No purana ever said that the rashis are not sidereal. Let Jyotirved show a single statement if any purana specifically mentioned that the Rashis are not sidereeal. All the Rashis mentioned in the Puranas, as quoted by Jyotirved in his BVB6.doc,  are sidereal. His assertions that the Rashis are not sidereal would not change what Vamana purana says about the rashis. The Vamana purana tells us which are the nakshatras in a particular Rashi.. Puranas have not talked about Sayana rashi chakra. Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your bluffs. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Krishen jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Krishen jyotirved@ > > > > [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet > > > > > > > > Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:22 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri Bhattacharjya has said, " No purana had ever said that the > > > > > > > > Uttarayana day is the Makar Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that > > > > > > > > the Uttarayana shifts fron nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in > > > > > > > > course of time. The Bhagavata Purana was recited before Parikshita in > > > > > > > > the 31st century BCE and at that time Makar Sankranti was in the > > > > > > > > Dakshinayana and any astronomer worth his salt qwill admit this.. I > > > > > > > > mentioned that in my earlier mail and Jyotirved ignores that to his > > > > > > > > convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on toleratingsuch bluffs after > > > > > > > > bluffs. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to refresh Shri Bhattacharjya' s memory, I am quoting just a few > > > > > > > > excerpts from BVB6.doc so that the forum members can see it for > > > > > > > > themsleves that the Puranas and also the sidhantas talk invariably of a > > > > > > > > so called Sayana Rashichakra when they say that on the day of Mesha > > > > > > > > Sankranti day is equal to night and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ******** ******** > > > > > > > > ****** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Puranas: I have already quoted hundreds of proofs with > > > > > > > > chapter and verse in my Panchangas and other articles. It is no use to > > > > > > > > repeat them here again. Suffice to quote a few only from a couple of > > > > > > > > Puranas. First the Vishnupurana: 2/8/28-31 and 67-68 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ayanasyotarasyadav makaram yati bhaskarah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tatah kumbham cha menam cha rashe rashyantaram dvija > > > > > > > > (28) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trishu eteshu atha bhukteshu tato vaishuvatim gatim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prayati savita kurvan ahoratram tatah samam > > > > > > > > (29) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tato ratrih kshayam yati vardhate anudinam dinam > > > > > > > > (30) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tatashcha mithunasyante param kashtham upagatah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rashim karkatam prapya kurute dakshinayanam > > > > > > > > (31) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " In the beginning of Uttarayana, the sun enters > > > > > > > > Capricorn (Makara Rashi) there from going to Kumbha and them Mina. After > > > > > > > > having passed through these three signs, it just gains vishuvati > > > > > > > > (equinoctial) speed resulting in the day and night being equal on Mesha. > > > > > > > > After that, nights start decreasing and the days increasing > > > > > > > > correspondingly daily. Then when the sun is in the end of Mithuna Rashi, > > > > > > > > i.e. when it is just at the verge of entering Cancer, the day is the > > > > > > > > longest then and Dakshnayana starts on that date " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharad vsantyor Madhye vishuvam to vibhavyete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tula mesh gate bhanav samratri divam tu tat > > > > > > > > (67) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karkatavasthite bhanav dakshiyanamuchete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uttarayanam api uktam makarasthe divakare > > > > > > > > (88) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " In the midst of sharat ritu and vasanta ritu, vishuvas (equinoxes) > > > > > > > > take place with the entry of the sun into Tula (Libra) and Mesha (Aries) > > > > > > > > respectively and days and nights become equal on those two sankrantis. > > > > > > > > The entry of sun into Cancer (Karkata) is known as dakshinayana whereas > > > > > > > > its entry into Maraka is known as Uttarayana " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now Shrimadbhagavata, 5/21/4-6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yada mesh tulyor vartate tada ahoratrani samanani bhavanti yada > > > > > > > > vrishadishu panchasu cha rashishu charati tada ahani eva vardhante > > > > > > > > hrasati cha masi masi ekaika ghatika ratrishu (4) yada > > > > > > > > vrishchikadishu panchasu vartate tada ahoratrani viparyayani bhavanti > > > > > > > > (5) yavad dakshinayanam ahani vardhante yavad uttarayanam ratrayah > > > > > > > > (6) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " When the sun enters Mesha and Tula days and nights are equal on > > > > > > > > those dates and the day starts getting longer as compared to nights when > > > > > > > > the sun passes through Vrisha etc. five rashis then days keep on > > > > > > > > increasing and the nights decreasing by one ghati every month. (After > > > > > > > > the day and night have become equal on Tula Sankranti) the nights keep > > > > > > > > on increasing during the sojourn of five rashis of Vrishchika etc. In > > > > > > > > short, during Uttarayana days keep on increasing till Dakshinayana and > > > > > > > > after that nights keep on increasing " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vishnurhdarmotarapu rana 3/8/6-8 says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tula meshagate bhanav vishuvad dinam uchete, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dhanvato mithunantashcha ayane soasya dakshine, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " When the sun is in Mesha and Tula, they are the days of Vishuva > > > > > > > > i.e. days and nights are equal then. From the end of Dhanu (start of > > > > > > > > Makara) Uttarayana starts and from the end of Mithuna (start of Karkata) > > > > > > > > Dakshniyana starts " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any discussion on such topics is incomplete without appropriate > > > > > > > > references from Shivamahapurana: We just quote one 5/51/54 from this > > > > > > > > Purana below: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > madhavasya site pakshe tritiya ya akshayabida > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tasyam yo jagadambayah vratam kuryad atandritah… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The tritiya of Shukla paksha of Madhava (!) is know as akshayaya > > > > > > > > tritiya. One who observes a fast for Jagadamba on that date (gets > > > > > > > > immortal and thousand fold results) " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is to be noted here that Akshaya tritiya is to be > > > > > > > > observed in (lunar) Madhava that means according to Shiva-Mahapurana > > > > > > > > also Vaishakha does not have any other existence besides Madhava! Thus > > > > > > > > the akshyaya tritiya that we observed in 2003 on May 4, was against all > > > > > > > > the shastras since solar Madhava had ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava > > > > > > > > on April 30! A similar situation is going to crop up in 2005. We will > > > > > > > > be asked to celebrate Akshaya tritiya on May 12, when solar Madhava will > > > > > > > > have ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava shukla paksha will start on > > > > > > > > April 8, 2005 which means it should be celebrated actually on April 11, > > > > > > > > 2005! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now obviously, if as per all the Vedas, Vedanga Jyotisha, Surya > > > > > > > > Sidhanta, Bhagavata, Vishnupurana, Vishnudharmotarapur ana and Shiva > > > > > > > > Mahapurana etc. etc. solar Shravana is another name of Dakshinayana viz > > > > > > > > sun in Karkata, it starts on June 21 in 2004. The first shukla pratipat > > > > > > > > after that is on July 18. Therefore, that is the day when the Lunar > > > > > > > > Shravana starts in 2004 as per all the Vedas and Puranas etc. As such, > > > > > > > > Shravana Purnima viz Raksha Bandhan and Amarnath Yatra etc. should be > > > > > > > > celebrated on July 31 in 2004. Why are our panchangakars asking us to > > > > > > > > celebrate it on August 29 instead? Only because they treat the entire > > > > > > > > Hindu society as ignorant fools who have no idea about the criteria of > > > > > > > > any festivals! Or is it that the panchangakars do not know anything > > > > > > > > themselves but are just copying from others like blind following blind? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End excerpt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ******* ********* > > > > > > > > ******* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotirved gives another bluff when he says as follows " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ///  Surprisingly, all the Puranas and sidhantas (and not the > > > > > > > > Vedas or the VJ!) call that very Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti! > > > > > > > >  /// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No purana had ever said that the Uttarayana day is the Makar > > > > > > > > Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that the Uttarayana shifts fron > > > > > > > > nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in course of time. The Bhagavata > > > > > > > > Purana was recited before Parikshita in the 31st century BCE and at that > > > > > > > > time Makar Sankranti was in the Dakshinayana and any astronomer > > > > > > > > worth his salt qwill admit this.. I mentioned that in my earlier mail > > > > > > > > and Jyotirved ignores that to his convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on > > > > > > > > toleratingsuch bluffs after bluffs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly since Jyotirved does not believe in Sidereal Makar > > > > > > > > Sankranti he has no business to poke his long nose into the million > > > > > > > > dollar question. Let the believers discuss such points and not > > > > > > > > Jyotirved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattachatrjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, jyotirved jyotirved@ . wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotirved jyotirved@ . > > > > > > > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia > > > > > > > > Norelli-Bachelet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: hinducalendar, " 'subash razdan' " subashrazdan@ ...., > > > > > > > > vedic_research_ institute, > > > > > > > > indiaarchaeology > > > > > > > > > Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:57 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote: Dear Avinashji, I agree with your following statement to some extent. <The equation between the makara samkranti and uttarayan in old books was not meant to be an eternal truth, but a statement of an observed fact at the time of the construction of the book(s).> But you should recall that 'Sun in dhanistha' as uttarayan remained conveniently true for about 1700 years.Also makar sankranti remained as uttarayan conveniently true for another 1200 years henceforth.Now the new proposal is to eastablish Dhanu sankranti as the new uttarayan for another 1500 years.How do you find this idea of changing the epochal nirayan uttarayan again, as was done in the past? Thank you, Hari Malla HinduCalendar , Avinash Sathaye <sohum@> wrote: > > *I was keeping quiet because I assumed that everyone will easily see the > problem with the equation > " makara samkranti=Uttarayan " . > > The word uttarayana (uttara+ayana) means going towards the north and it > has to mean the start of the Sun's northerly (apparent) motion. It has > to be variable from year to year due to various perturbations of the orbits. > > The word makara saMkranti refers to crossing the threshold of the Makara > Rashi. It refers to a configuration of stars and being sufficiently > distant from the earth, these stars do not match the annual motions. > > To me, calling makara samkranti as uttarayan for convenience sounds like > calling the noon hour as day break for convenience (because one chooses > to wake up then!) :-) > > The equation between the makara samkranti and uttarayan in old books was > not meant to be an eternal truth, but a statement of an observed fact at > the time of the construction of the book(s). > > > *Bhupendra Jamnadas wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Hari mala Ji, > > > > Could not avoid noticing this exchange between you and AK Kaul Ji. > > What you are suggesting here is that for convenience purpose only, the > > scriptures have indicate 1st day Makar Sanskranti to mark the > > beginning of Uttarayana. Since Makar sankranti itself is never on the > > same lunar date year after year, what additional convenience is to be > > gained by taking Makar Sankranti to indicate the start of Uttarayan? > > Since Uttarayan like makar sankranti is also not going to be on the > > same lunar data year after year, might as well mark a separate date on > > the lunar calender for uttarayan just like makar sanskranti. If the > > scriptures are out convenience trying to bundle to 2 events in a > > single calender event, it seems very dubious and indicates scriptures > > that were doctored by people who somehow were trying to fit these > > events into their methematical model and were having trouble syncing > > their calculations with actual phenomena of the shortest day. > > > > Our scriptures are very elaborate, it does not make sense that just > > out of convenience, these 2 events are bundled into one for the sake > > simpler calender. There is something definitely wrong here. > > > > Regards, > > Bhupendra. > > -- > > > -- > With Best Regards, > Avinash Sathaye > > Web: www.msc.uky.edu/sohum > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote: Dear shri Kaulji, Namskar! Please do not avoid the seartch for the truth and reconsider the matter. I repeat here so we come to some result. If you want to find the truth let me ask the question again? The following statement is not at all self contradictory.You have to see the difference between the two options given below.Can I expect some sincere reply to the following question: <Between makar sankranti and uttarayana let us find which is the primary horse and which is the secondary cart.The question is what do the shastras say? Does uttarayan start from makar sankranti or does makar sankranti start from uttarayan? If the first part is true then makar sankranti is nirayan, if the second part is true then makar sankranti is sayan.Kindly confirm from the sidhantas and puranas which is true, whether it is uttarayan which starts from makar sankranti or makar sankranti that starts from uttarayan.> Thank you, in advance, for your more serious consideration of what I am saying. Regards, Hari Malla > , " Krishen " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > Dear members of , > Jai Shri Ram! > Shri Hari Malla has " established " himself as my " examiner " and has set > the following test: > > <My point is uttarayan starts from makar sakranti,(refer:The six months > of uttaryna is from makar sankranti to Karkat sankranti-SS) which means > that makar sankranti is the land mark for the start of uttaryan, only > for convenience of daily use, although it may not be exactly true over a > long time. This surely proves that makar sankranti does not start from > uttarayan> > With such self-contradictory statments, I wonder whether Shri Hari Malla > is even qualified to be a good student! As such, I reject his tests and > pity his ignorance. > > Jai Shri Ram! > A K Kaul > > > , " hari " harimalla@ wrote: > > > > parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > Dear shri Kaulji, > > Namskar! I again find your patience is exhausted. I will not trouble > you much more. Nonetheless, I would like to request you to confirm one > fact, so the truth is clarified. Between makar sankranti and uttarayana > let us find which is the primary horse and which is the secondary > cart.The question is what do the shastras say? Does uttrayan start from > makar sankranti or does makar sankranti start from uttarayan? If the > first part is true then makar sankranti is nirayan, if the second part > is true then makar sankranti is sayan.Kindly confirm from the sidhantas > and puranas which is true, whether it is uttarayan which starts from > makar sankranti or makar sankranti starts from uttarayan. > > With this test your confusion will surely vanish. Thank you for your > last patience.My point is uttarayan starts from makar > sakranti,(refer:The six months of uttaryna is from makar sankranti to > Karkat sankranti-SS) which means that makar sankranti is the land mark > for the start of uttaryan, only for convenience of daily use, although > it may not be exactly true over a long time. This surely proves that > makar sankranti does not start from uttarayan.Kindly check it from the > shastras.Thank you. > > Regards, > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " Krishen " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > Shri Hari Mallaji, > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > On reading your post, I regret my decision of allowing the same on > this forum, since all you are interested in is propagating a calendar > which you have a mandate to do, instead of going as per any dharma > shastra or purana or sidhanta! If anyone points out those anachronisms > to you, he is " blatantly misinterpreting the puranas and the sidhantas " > according to you. > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear shri Kaulji, > > > > Namaskar!In continuation of my last mail, I add the following > comments. > > > > My previous statement: > > > > <This is the classic makar sankranti as uttarayan, along with the > shift of lunar uttrayan from the maaagha sukla pratipada of Vedanga > jyotish to Poush full moon.> > > > > Your comment in reply: > > > > <It is impossible to make either head or tail of your statements! > How many times do I have to remind you that Uttarayana is a geographical > phenomenon that is to be celebrated on the shortest day of the year? > There is no lunar uttarayana! It is up to you whether you call the > Uttarayana day makar Sankranti or Dhanu Sanrkanti or Kumbha Sankranti or > no Sankranit at all, though all the sidhantas and Puranas call > Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti! If you do not want to believe in the > Puranas or sidhantas, including the Surya Sidhanta of Varahamihra, I > cannot compel you to do so. > > > > > > > > > You are blatantly misinterpreting the puranas and the > sidhantas.The puranas and sidhantas do not call uttarayan as makar > sankranti, but celebrate uttarayan by makar sankranti by equating one > with the other.This equation is the vedic way of coordinating the > tropical and sidereal concepts. > > > > Uttarayan is a geographical event which occurs on the shortest day > but is celebrated on the day near it. The celebration is done on the > first day of the solar and the lunar months like maagha sukla pratipada > or makar sankranti which is the first day of the solar maagha. Since > these months are attached to the rashis and nakshyatras,which are thus > nirayan or not moving with the seasons,the days of celebrations do not > fall on the actual uttarayan date which is tropical or seasonal. Solar > uttarayan, known as uttaryan sankranti in dharma shastras, is the first > day of the solar month of maagha. Lunar uttarayan tithi falls on the > first day of the lunar month of maagha.At present the lunar uttarayan is > celebrated on poush purnima, which is one day previous to the lunar > purnimanta month of maagha (maagha krishna pratipada). We thus celebrate > uttaryan not on the actual uttarayan date which may fall on any date, > but only on the first day of solar and\or lunar month. This is the basis > given by all the sidhantas and puranas. This is certainly so, only if > you do not misinterpret these dates to be tropical uttarayan date. This > is also confirmed by the practice itself.Please read Dharma sindhu, > which talk of both the solar and the lunar seasons. > > > > Our shastras prohibit us, not to celebrate on the actual uttarayan > date.The reason given for this is that the uttarayan date being related > to the earth axis is tilted further away from the lunar pole than the > eliptic pole. The lunar pole and the ecliptic pole are closer being > separated by only 5 degrees. This has been explained by a story which > says Brahmaji (dhruva bindu) is not to be worshipped because he > pretended or lied, to have touched the top of the lunar pole, known as > jyotir linga of lord Shiva. This means that dhurva bindu is not the > highest point, but the lunar pole or ecliptic pole near it, is higher. > > > > > > > > <Similarly, it is again up to you as to whether you call the > Uttarayana Day as the start of Tapah month or solar Magha month as > desired by the VJ. If you want to call that by some other name, I cannot > compel you not to do so, though all the sidhantas and Puranas say that > the month of solar Tapah and magha start from the day of Uttarayana!> > > > > > > > > Sorry to differ form your interpretation of VJ. VJ says that > uttarayan occurs when the sun is in dhanistha, or when it is maagha(or > tapa) sukla pratipada.Thus uttarayn date is not the start of tapa sukla > pratipada but tapa sukla pratipada is the representative day of > uttarayan (ie.is assumed to be uttrayan for the civil celebrations). > Tapa sukla pratipada touches uttarayan date while it fluctuates back and > forth during the fluctuation caused by the adhimases. The lunar > uttarayan date, tapa sukla pratipada touches both the solar uttarayan > date of 'sun in dhanistha' and the actual uttarayan. > > > > > > > > <Similarly, it is for you to decide as to what name you would like > to give to the Purnima preceding or succeeding the Winter Solstice, > though all the Puranas say that we must call the preceding Purnima as > Pausha Shukla Purnima and succeeding Purnima as Magha Shukla Purnima.> > > > > > > > > You have also gone out of tract here.Please learn to give up the > idea of purnima succeeding or preceding uttarayan.'Utttaryan purnima' is > that purnima which goes both before and after uttarayan.Also tapa sukla > pratipada or 'uttarayan pratipada' is the pratipada which goes both > before and after uttarayan.This will be clear if you analyse the > flucatuation of the uttarayan tithi in the various eras both vedanga and > sidhanta.During vedanga jyotish, maagha sukla pratipada went both before > and after uttarayan, thus it was the uttarayan pratipada or tithi. In > sidhanta period poush purnima 15 days before maagha sukla pratipada, > went both before and after uttarayan.Thus this was the uttarayan tithi > and maagha snana was celebrated on this date. These will be clear if you > study the scientific basis of calendar reform given by a drawing in the > prvasudhar forum. Unless you learn to study this drawing you will be in > confusion for a long time more.SO kindly study this drawing.The drawings > are many times more helpful than the words to understand facts. > > > > > > > > <This is also evident by the Maagha snana we are still celebrating > on Poush purnima. Please refer to dharma shastras.> > > > > > > > > <Again the same confusing and confounding statements! How can any > dharma shastra advise you to celebrate Magha snana on Pausha Purnima > since then it would advise you to celebrate Vaishkha snana on Chaitra > Purnima and so on. Pl. do not expose your motives all the more byt > ascribing such ignorance to dharmashatras!> > > > > > > > > Shall I say ignorance is bliss! Please read Dharma sindhu and > confirm that it is indeed so.Vaisakh snana is prescribed from the > Chaitra purnima day.You have really hit the mark this time.Please read > and confirm that Kartik snana is also prescribed from the Aswin purnima > date.This was the system introduced from the sidhanta period for the > four 'lunar' cardinal points.This will be a great discovery for you in > your calendar reform efforts.How nicely you are coming to the truth, > accidentally! > > > > > > > > <So my request to specially you shri Kaulji, do not try to spoil > our pristine vedic culture, with the concept brought into effect by Pope > Gregory.> > > > > > > > > <Either your memory is proverbially short or you just do not read > any posts except your own! I have demonstrated it already in a different > post in response to a gentleman's insinuation that " Winter Solstice " > (uttarayana) is a Christian festival thrust on the Hindus by Christians, > that even the Julian Calendar, the erstwhile avatar of Gregorian > calendar is actually based on the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha! Or do you > mean to say that even Acharya Lagadha of fifteenth century BCE was > influenced by Pope Gregory of fifteenth century AD?> > > > > > > > > You want to be vedic, no doubt, but inadvertantly copy pope > Gregory mistaking it to be vedic.All your sayan interpretations of the > purnas and the sidhantas are showing this.When Lagadh is saying > (nirayan) 'sun in dhanistha' and lunar maagha sukla pratidpada are to > be, as it were, coordinated with uttarayan, you want to think vedanga > jyotish is sayan system like the Gregorain calendar. > > > > > > > > <Then again, you have yet to prove that the rashi division, > whether so called sayana (which you call Gregorian) or nirayana, which > you call shastriac, has any scientific basis!> > > > > > > > > The rashi division of 30 degrees is man made and has been handy to > control our adhimases and thus the lunar months.These are nirayan months > being attached to the stars.Thus they are sidereal or steller. Since the > sun, which really is fixed, is again rigidly fixed by this circle of > stars, divided into 30 degrees each, they seem to be much more > scientific than the months which alterntely take 30 and 31 days. The 12 > equal angular artificial division of space is surely the most scientific > way of looking at outer space, which approximates, with the 12 natural > lunar months. > > > > > > > > <Above all, would you kindly elucidate your insinuation as to how > I am asking you " to go by the concept brought into effect by Pope > Gregory " .> > > > > The purely tropical method is prohibited by our tradition. It is > Pope Gregory who has introduced the purely tropical system, because they > have only solar months to think of. When you forget our coordinative > nature of the tropical and the sidereal systems by the lunar tithis, and > want to go purely tropcial in his footsteps, it does appear, quite an > imitation of his system. > > > > Thank you and regards, > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri Hari Malla ji, > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > < Perhaps your spelling is more acceptable. If my spelling is > not correct, > > > > > then pardon me.> > > > > > > > > > > It is not a matter of spelling alone! Had you read any works of > > > > > Varahamihria actually yourself, you would not have been flogging > a wrong > > > > > horse over such a long period! > > > > > > > > > > <I am trying to quote him in the chapter on Adityacharadhyaya, > perhaps the > > > > > opening verses themselves. If my translation is not exact then > also I > > > > > request you to correct me.> > > > > > > > > > > Again the same confusion " perhaps " . Once you read Brihat Samhita > fully and > > > > > compare the discussion of that Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti > vis-a-vis the > > > > > Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti of the Surya Sidhanta of > Panchasidhantika by > > > > > the same author, you will be able to understand as to how > Varahamihra has > > > > > contradicted his own views himself about such phenomena. > > > > > > > > > > < But I am convinced that the intent of the verses, clarifies > that Vedanga > > > > > jyotish was nirayan,'sun at dhanistha' being accepted as the > uttrayan for a > > > > > very long time even nearly till the time of Varaha mihira > (spelling is > > > > > yours).> > > > > > > > > > > My dear friend, pl. do read some books on astronomy! Sun in > Dhanishtha > > > > > nakshatra is an annual phenomenon and has been going on ever > since the > > > > > nakshatras-vis-a-vis the solar movement was recognized! So what > is nirayana > > > > > about it? Similarly, sun is always in one or the other > nakshatra! Do you > > > > > mean to say that sun is as such always nirayana? Same is the > case with the > > > > > Moon! That is also in one or the other nakshatra always! Do you > mean to > > > > > say that the Moon is always nirayana? > > > > > > > > > > What a confusion! > > > > > > > > > > If there had been any rashis prevailing at the time of the VJ in > India, the > > > > > solar movement would have been recorded vis-a-vis the rashis > then during > > > > > that period also. > > > > > > > > > > <The new uttarayan, he accepted after correction was also > nirayan since it > > > > > is effective to this day as our practice shows so.> > > > > > > > > > > Again another confusing statement! " Old uttarayana " was nirayana > because > > > > > that was in some nakshtra! " New Uttarayana " also is nirayana > because it is > > > > > in some rashi! Or do you mean to say that if it had been in some > rashi > > > > > instead of nakshatra at the time of the VJ, it would not have > been nirayana > > > > > then? > > > > > > > > > > Again, What is nirayana? " New Uttarayana " or makar Sankranti > according to > > > > > you? If it is uttarayana, whether " new " or " old " , you are again > talking > > > > > through your hat since Uttarayana is a geographical phenomenon > that has been > > > > > going on from the dawn of creation and will continue till > doomsday! It will > > > > > always fall in one or the other nakshatra! So to qualify it as > nirayana or > > > > > sayana is to exhibit one's ignorance. > > > > > > > > > > If Makar Sankranti is nirayana according to you, that is just > your > > > > > prerogative to consider it so! Rashis being imaginary divisions > of > > > > > imaginary circles can be nirayana or sayana or co-ordinated or > disjointed or > > > > > whatever, depending on the " state of mind " of the beholder. > > > > > > > > > > <This is the classic makar sankranti as uttarayan, along with > the shift of > > > > > lunar uttrayan from the maaagha sukla pratipada of Vedanga > jyotish to Poush > > > > > full moon.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is impossible to make either head or tail of your statements! > How many > > > > > times do I have to remind you that Uttarayana is a geographical > phenomenon > > > > > that is to be celebrated on the shortest day of the year? There > is no lunar > > > > > uttarayana! It is up to you whether you call the Uttarayana day > makar > > > > > Sankranti or Dhanu Sanrkanti or Kumbha Sankranti or no Sankranit > at all, > > > > > though all the sidhantas and Puranas call Uttarayana day as > Makar Sankranti! > > > > > If you do not want to believe in the Puranas or sidhantas, > including the > > > > > Surya Sidhanta of Varahamihra, I cannot compel you to do so. > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, it is again up to you as to whether you call the > Uttarayana Day > > > > > as the start of Tapah month or solar Magha month as desired by > the VJ. If > > > > > you want to call that by some other name, I cannot compel you > not to do so, > > > > > though all the sidhantas and Puranas say that the month of solar > Tapah and > > > > > magha start from the day of Uttarayana! > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, it is for you to decide as to what name you would > like to give to > > > > > the Purnima preceding or succeeding the Winter Solstice, though > all the > > > > > Puranas say that we must call the preceding Purnima as Pausha > Shukla > > > > > Purnima and succeeding Purnima as Magha Shukla Purnima. > > > > > > > > > > <This is also evident by the Maagha snana we are still > celebrating on Poush > > > > > purnima. Please refer to dharma shastras.> > > > > > > > > > > Again the same confusing and confounding statements! How can any > dharma > > > > > shastra advise you to celebrate Magha snana on Pausha Purnima > since then it > > > > > would advise you to celebrate Vaishkha snana on Chaitra Purnima > and so on. > > > > > Pl. do not expose your motives all the more byt ascribing such > ignorance to > > > > > dharmashatras! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <So my request to specially you shri Kaulji, do not try to spoil > our > > > > > pristine vedic culture, with the concept brought into effect by > Pope > > > > > Gregory.> > > > > > > > > > > Either your memory is proverbially short or you just do not read > any posts > > > > > except your own! I have demonstrated it already in a different > post in > > > > > response to a gentleman's insinuation that " Winter Solstice " > (uttarayana) is > > > > > a Christian festival thrust on the Hindus by Christians, that > even the > > > > > Julian Calendar, the erstwhile avatar of Gregorian calendar is > actually > > > > > based on the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha! Or do you mean to say > that even > > > > > Acharya Lagadha of fifteenth century BCE was influenced by Pope > Gregory of > > > > > fifteenth century AD? > > > > > > > > > > Then again, you have yet to prove that the rashi division, > whether so called > > > > > sayana (which you call Gregorian) or nirayana, which you call > shastriac, has > > > > > any scientific basis! > > > > > > > > > > Above all, would you kindly elucidate your insinuation as to how > I am asking > > > > > you " to go by the concept brought into effect by Pope Gregory " . > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " hari " <harimalla@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Kaulji, > > > > > > > > > > > Namskar! Yes you are right. I mean him. Perhaps your spelling > is more > > > > > acceptable.If my spelling is not corrrect, then pardon me. It is > him who > > > > > wrote Brihad Samhita. I am trying to qouote him in the chapter > on > > > > > Adityacharadhyaya, perhaps the opening verses themsielves.If my > translation > > > > > is not exact then also I request you to correct me. > > > > > > > > > > > But I am convinced that the intent of the verses, clarifies > that Vedanga > > > > > jyotish was nirayan,'sun at dhanistha' being accepted as the > uttrayan for a > > > > > very long time even nearly till the time of Varaha mihira > (spelling is > > > > > yours).The new uttarayan, he accepted after correction was also > nirayan > > > > > since it is effective to this day as our practice shows so.This > is the > > > > > classic makar sankranti as uttarayan,along with the shift of > lunar uttrayan > > > > > from the maaagha sukla pratipada of Vedanga jyotish to Poush > full moon.This > > > > > is also evidint by the Maagha snana we are still celebrating on > Poush > > > > > purnima.Please refer to dharma shastras. > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, we must now fix a new nirayan uttarayan which is > close to the > > > > > present day tropical uttarayan which now falls not in the range > of puoush > > > > > purnima but of mrigasira purnima. This would be in the footsteps > of our past > > > > > reformations rather than succcumbing to the modern method of > Pope Gregory, > > > > > whose culture is quite different from our culture, since they do > not tie up > > > > > the sun and the moon with the help of adhimases and the stars > too. Mind > > > > > you,I am not in favour of indefinite nityanness like many > astorlogers. But > > > > > my view is that, the new nirayn sankranti should be close to the > present > > > > > tropical sankranti so that although they are slightly > different,but since > > > > > they both fall within the same fullmoon zone would give the > correct seasons > > > > > to the tithis, which are the real basis of our celebrations. I > feel that > > > > > those who advocate the sayan system or exactly season based as > you say, are > > > > > not really aware of the importance of the nirayan tithis and > their tie up > > > > > with the stars.Tying up the fullmoons with the stars and naming > the months > > > > > as such seems to be older than Vedanga jyotish and is the very > foundation of > > > > > our culture. > > > > > > > > > > > So my request to specially you shri Kaulji, do not try to > spoil our > > > > > pristine vedic culture, with the concept brought into effect by > Pope > > > > > Gregory. > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Krishen " <jyotirved@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri Hari Malla ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > > > < What I know is Barahmihir says> > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is this chap " Barahamihr " who is your pet flogging > horse? I have > > > > > never heard about him! Was he anyway related to Varahamihira, > who is said to > > > > > have compiled " Panchasidhanitka " etc. books in about fifth > century AD? > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > , " hari " <harimalla@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhattacharyaji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I know is Barahmihir says the 'sun in > dhanistha'position as the > > > > > start of uttarayan, was too old a concept then at his time and > the > > > > > occurrence of uttarayan with the sun at makar sankranti was > logical and > > > > > could be proved by checking practically.' > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start of Uttarayan with sun at makar sankranti (beginning > of makar > > > > > rashi) occurred around 285 AD, as accepted nowadays. One month > shift of > > > > > uttarayan occurs in around 2150 years. Thus around 2150-285 = > 1865 BC > > > > > becomes the year when uttarayan occurred at the end of makar > rashi, 30 > > > > > degrees after the beginning of makar rashi. Before that time, > uttarayan > > > > > occurred when the sun was in Kumbha rashi and not in makar > rashi. Dakhinsysn > > > > > started when the sun was in Karkat rashi in 285 AD, which means > in 1865 BC, > > > > > it started when the sun was in the end of Karkat rashi. Before > that > > > > > dakhinayan started when the sun was in Simha rashi.Thus at > around 32 century > > > > > BCE uttarayan started when the sun was in Simha rashi. This is > the simple > > > > > mathematics I can explain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The rest of the fantastic assumtions, explanations and > calculations > > > > > that dakhinayan occurred when the sun entered makar rashi in > 32nd century > > > > > BCE, I leave to you, shri Bhattacharyaji to explain. So please > go ahead and > > > > > explain whatever you have assumed, by challenging yourself. I > will surely > > > > > read it. Do not challenge me to do such silly task. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote: Dear shri Kaulji, Let me admit that you are moving in the proper direction when you are at least accepting the relationship of uttarayan with the stars as mentioned in the following (uttarayan at mula and purnavsu). Clubbing it like this is also welcome.This is the nirayan clubbing which is very necessary for our calendar to be vedic. <The Uttarayana is these days taking place around the midpoint of Lambda Scorpii and Delta Sagitarii (Mula and Purvashadha) stars. Why don't you club it with those two nakshatras/junction stars and why do you want to correlate it to some imaginary division known as Makar Sankranti and then simultaneosuly tell us in the same breath that no, Uttarayana is not taking place simultaneously with Makar Sankranti these days?> If you hate the rashis, you can proceed it like this too.This is also welcome.If you are more liberal to the rashis you can include the rashis too.For me wether the rashis or the nakshytras or teh both they are all the same, both being the same circle of stars. Thank you for the positive steps. Regards, Hari Malla HinduCalendar , " Krishen " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Shri Hari Malla ji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > < But the stars like dhanistha or makar sankranti are fixed points, > which can be seen by the naked eyes.> > > You are absolutely wrong! Dhanishtha is a star known as Beta/Alpha > Delphini which has a present longitude of about 317 degrees from Mean > Equator and Equinox of date whereas Makar Sankranti is the ingress of > the sun into an imaginary point which nobody, including you, knows as to > what the longitude of that point is! > > Which Sankranti can you see with " naked eyes " ? Till date I had heard > " Tapasvisnis " seeing Makar Samkranti through their tapasya and some > parokshya-walas seeing it through their parokshya- knowledge but you > must really be a superhuman being surpassing all the rest of such beings > since you can see even imaginary Makar Samkranti points with naked eyes > without any tapasya or parokshya knowledge either! > > Why are you putting your ignorance on public display with such nonsense > statements? > > No wonder, it is because of people like you who can see " makar > sankrantis with naked eyes " that we have never been able to streamline > the Hindu calendar over the last several centuries! > > <So it was convenient to fix the sun in dhanistha position, as uttarayan > for convenience of observation during Vedanga jyotish days.It was also > convenient to fix makar sankranti as uttarayan during the early century > of Vikram Sambat.> > > The Uttarayana is these days taking place around the midpoint of Lambda > Scorpii and Delta Sagitarii (Mula and Purvashadha) stars. Why don't you > club it with those two nakshatras/junction stars and why do you want to > correlate it to some imaginary division known as Makar Sankranti and > then simultaneosuly tell us in the same breath that no, Uttarayana is > not taking place simultaneously with Makar Sankranti these days? > > <It was also costumary to fix separate uttarayan dates by lunar > tithi.During Vedanga jyotish they fixed Maagha sukla pratipada to > represent uttarayan> > > Yet another fantastic statement! The VJ has never said that Uttarayana > fell every year on the same lunar tithi! Obviously, you have not read > even the VJ fully but are still pontificating on the same! > > <I do agree with you.Only for people who did not understand like shri > Kaulji I used the word convenience, so he may understand some aspect at > least.> > > Again the same blah, blah, blah! what is convenient or inconvenient > about celebrating uttarayana, a geographical phenomenon? It takes > place every year these days around December 21/22. Anybody can see that > date and time from the internet these days. Why do you want to club it > with any lunar tithi or any imaginary sankranti etc. at all? Let > anybody celebrate any Sankranti on any day he or she likes to! Why > should you thrust your pet calendar down the throat of every Hindu, just > because you are mandated to do so? > > The VJ has never advised you to celebrate any so called Makar or Kumbha > etc. Sankrantis. All it has advised you to do is to celebrate the two > ayanas and vishuvas, apart from madhu, Madhava etc. months, to which are > pegged the lunar months viz. Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. etc. > > It is the siddhntas that talk of Makar and Kumbha etc. samkrantis. And > they are so called sayana. Same is the case with the Puranas. Pauranic > Sankrantis also are sayana. As such, if you have to advocate any > Sankranti on the shoulders of the siddhantas or Puranas, it has to be so > called sayana and nothing else. > > Jai Shri Ram! > > A K Kaul > > HinduCalendar , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bhupendra Jamnadasji, > > > > Thank you fo your interest in the issue.You know uttarayan is a > changing point every year with respect to the stars. But the stars like > dhanistha or makar sankranti are fixed points, which can be seen by the > naked eyes. So it was convenient to fix the sun in dhanistha position, > as uttarayan for convenience of observation during Vedanga jyotish > days.It was also convenient to fix makar sankranti as uttarayan during > the early century of Vikram Sambat.Once it was fixed, these points > remained as nirayan uttarayan for a very long time say one thousand to > two thousand years.In fact it wsa a necessary convenience. > > It was also costumary to fix separate uttarayan dates by lunar > tithi.During Vedanga jyotish they fixed Maagha sukla pratipada to > represent uttarayan. And during sidhant period they fixed Poush purnima > as the lunar uttarayan.These lunar dates fluctuated over a month due to > adhimas. Thus as these tithis fluctuated over a region, which contained > the actual uttarayan they did not find it necessary to shift the nirayn > uttarayan with the sun fixed at certain star, frequently.Thus you are > quite right when you say that they were quite elaborate and did not do > so only for conveneience.I fully agree with you. But the method they > followed were not only convenient but also elaboraate and exactly > meaningful. I do agree with you.Only for people who did not understand > like shri Kaulji I used the word convenience, so he may understand some > aspect at least. > > Regards, > > Hari Malla > > > > - In HinduCalendar , Bhupendra Jamnadas b_jamnadas@ > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Hari mala Ji, > > > > > > Could not avoid noticing this exchange between you and AK Kaul Ji. > What you are suggesting here is that for convenience purpose only, the > scriptures have indicate 1st day Makar Sanskranti to mark the beginning > of Uttarayana. Since Makar sankranti itself is never on the same lunar > date year after year, what additional convenience is to be gained by > taking Makar Sankranti to indicate the start of Uttarayan? Since > Uttarayan like makar sankranti is also not going to be on the same lunar > data year after year, might as well mark a separate date on the lunar > calender for uttarayan just like makar sanskranti. If the scriptures are > out convenience trying to bundle to 2 events in a single calender event, > it seems very dubious and indicates scriptures that were doctored by > people who somehow were trying to fit these events into their > methematical model and were having trouble syncing their calculations > with actual phenomena of the shortest day. > > > > > > Our scriptures are very elaborate, it does not make sense that just > out of convenience, these 2 events are bundled into one for the sake > simpler calender. There is something definitely wrong here. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Bhupendra. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > hari harimalla@ > > > HinduCalendar > > > Wed, December 16, 2009 1:48:30 AM > > > [HinduCalendar] Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet > > > > > > Â > > > Dear shri Kaulji, > > > Namskar! I again find your patience is exhausted. I will not trouble > you much more. Nonetheless, I would like to request you to confirm one > fact, so the truth is clarified. Between makar sankranti and uttarayana > let us find which is the primary horse and which is the secondary > cart.The question is what do the shastras say? Does uttrayan start from > makar sankranti or does makar sankranti start from uttarayan? If the > first part is true then makar sankranti is nirayan, if the second part > is true then makar sankranti is sayan.Kindly confirm from the sidhantas > and puranas which is true, whether it is uttarayan which starts from > makar sankranti or makar sankranti starts from uttarayan. > > > With this test your confusion will surely vanish. Thank you for your > last patience.My point is uttarayan starts from makar sakranti,(refer: > The six months of uttaryna is from makar sankranti to Karkat > sankranti-SS) which means that makar sankranti is the land mark for the > start of uttaryan, only for convenience of daily use, although it may > not be exactly true over a long time. This surely proves that makar > sankranti does not start from uttarayan.Kindly check it from the > shastras.Thank you. > > > Regards, > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " Krishen " <jyotirved@ ..> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Shri Hari Mallaji, > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > On reading your post, I regret my decision of allowing the same on > this forum, since all you are interested in is propagating a calendar > which you have a mandate to do, instead of going as per any dharma > shastra or purana or sidhanta! If anyone points out those anachronisms > to you, he is " blatantly misinterpreting the puranas and the sidhantas " > according to you. > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear shri Kaulji, > > > > > Namaskar!In continuation of my last mail, I add the following > comments. > > > > > My previous statement: > > > > > <This is the classic makar sankranti as uttarayan, along with > the shift of lunar uttrayan from the maaagha sukla pratipada of Vedanga > jyotish to Poush full moon.> > > > > > Your comment in reply: > > > > > <It is impossible to make either head or tail of your > statements! How many times do I have to remind you that Uttarayana is a > geographical phenomenon that is to be celebrated on the shortest day of > the year? There is no lunar uttarayana! It is up to you whether you call > the Uttarayana day makar Sankranti or Dhanu Sanrkanti or Kumbha > Sankranti or no Sankranit at all, though all the sidhantas and Puranas > call Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti! If you do not want to believe in > the Puranas or sidhantas, including the Surya Sidhanta of Varahamihra, I > cannot compel you to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > You are blatantly misinterpreting the puranas and the > sidhantas.The puranas and sidhantas do not call uttarayan as makar > sankranti, but celebrate uttarayan by makar sankranti by equating one > with the other.This equation is the vedic way of coordinating the > tropical and sidereal concepts. > > > > > Uttarayan is a geographical event which occurs on the shortest > day but is celebrated on the day near it. The celebration is done on the > first day of the solar and the lunar months like maagha sukla pratipada > or makar sankranti which is the first day of the solar maagha. Since > these months are attached to the rashis and nakshyatras, which are thus > nirayan or not moving with the seasons,the days of celebrations do not > fall on the actual uttarayan date which is tropical or seasonal. Solar > uttarayan, known as uttaryan sankranti in dharma shastras, is the first > day of the solar month of maagha. Lunar uttarayan tithi falls on the > first day of the lunar month of maagha.At present the lunar uttarayan is > celebrated on poush purnima, which is one day previous to the lunar > purnimanta month of maagha (maagha krishna pratipada). We thus celebrate > uttaryan not on the actual uttarayan date which may fall on any date, > but only on the first day of solar and\or lunar > > > month. This is the basis given by all the sidhantas and puranas. > This is certainly so, only if you do not misinterpret these dates to be > tropical uttarayan date. This is also confirmed by the practice > itself.Please read Dharma sindhu, which talk of both the solar and the > lunar seasons. > > > > > Our shastras prohibit us, not to celebrate on the actual > uttarayan date.The reason given for this is that the uttarayan date > being related to the earth axis is tilted further away from the lunar > pole than the eliptic pole. The lunar pole and the ecliptic pole are > closer being separated by only 5 degrees. This has been explained by a > story which says Brahmaji (dhruva bindu) is not to be worshipped because > he pretended or lied, to have touched the top of the lunar pole, known > as jyotir linga of lord Shiva. This means that dhurva bindu is not the > highest point, but the lunar pole or ecliptic pole near it, is higher. > > > > > > > > > > <Similarly, it is again up to you as to whether you call the > Uttarayana Day as the start of Tapah month or solar Magha month as > desired by the VJ. If you want to call that by some other name, I cannot > compel you not to do so, though all the sidhantas and Puranas say that > the month of solar Tapah and magha start from the day of Uttarayana!> > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to differ form your interpretation of VJ. VJ says that > uttarayan occurs when the sun is in dhanistha, or when it is maagha(or > tapa) sukla pratipada.Thus uttarayn date is not the start of tapa sukla > pratipada but tapa sukla pratipada is the representative day of > uttarayan (ie.is assumed to be uttrayan for the civil celebrations) . > Tapa sukla pratipada touches uttarayan date while it fluctuates back and > forth during the fluctuation caused by the adhimases. The lunar > uttarayan date, tapa sukla pratipada touches both the solar uttarayan > date of 'sun in dhanistha' and the actual uttarayan. > > > > > > > > > > <Similarly, it is for you to decide as to what name you would > like to give to the Purnima preceding or succeeding the Winter Solstice, > though all the Puranas say that we must call the preceding Purnima as > Pausha Shukla Purnima and succeeding Purnima as Magha Shukla Purnima.> > > > > > > > > > > You have also gone out of tract here.Please learn to give up the > idea of purnima succeeding or preceding uttarayan.'Utttarya n purnima' > is that purnima which goes both before and after uttarayan.Also tapa > sukla pratipada or 'uttarayan pratipada' is the pratipada which goes > both before and after uttarayan.This will be clear if you analyse the > flucatuation of the uttarayan tithi in the various eras both vedanga and > sidhanta.During vedanga jyotish, maagha sukla pratipada went both before > and after uttarayan, thus it was the uttarayan pratipada or tithi. In > sidhanta period poush purnima 15 days before maagha sukla pratipada, > went both before and after uttarayan.Thus this was the uttarayan tithi > and maagha snana was celebrated on this date. These will be clear if you > study the scientific basis of calendar reform given by a drawing in the > prvasudhar forum. Unless you learn to study this drawing you will be in > confusion for a long time more.SO kindly study > > > this drawing.The drawings are many times more helpful than the words > to understand facts. > > > > > > > > > > <This is also evident by the Maagha snana we are still > celebrating on Poush purnima. Please refer to dharma shastras.> > > > > > > > > > > <Again the same confusing and confounding statements! How can > any dharma shastra advise you to celebrate Magha snana on Pausha Purnima > since then it would advise you to celebrate Vaishkha snana on Chaitra > Purnima and so on. Pl. do not expose your motives all the more byt > ascribing such ignorance to dharmashatras! > > > > > > > > > > > Shall I say ignorance is bliss! Please read Dharma sindhu and > confirm that it is indeed so.Vaisakh snana is prescribed from the > Chaitra purnima day.You have really hit the mark this time.Please read > and confirm that Kartik snana is also prescribed from the Aswin purnima > date.This was the system introduced from the sidhanta period for the > four 'lunar' cardinal points.This will be a great discovery for you in > your calendar reform efforts.How nicely you are coming to the truth, > accidentally! > > > > > > > > > > <So my request to specially you shri Kaulji, do not try to spoil > our pristine vedic culture, with the concept brought into effect by Pope > Gregory.> > > > > > > > > > > <Either your memory is proverbially short or you just do not > read any posts except your own! I have demonstrated it already in a > different post in response to a gentleman's insinuation that " Winter > Solstice " (uttarayana) is a Christian festival thrust on the Hindus by > Christians, that even the Julian Calendar, the erstwhile avatar of > Gregorian calendar is actually based on the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha! > Or do you mean to say that even Acharya Lagadha of fifteenth century BCE > was influenced by Pope Gregory of fifteenth century AD?> > > > > > > > > > > You want to be vedic, no doubt, but inadvertantly copy pope > Gregory mistaking it to be vedic.All your sayan interpretations of the > purnas and the sidhantas are showing this.When Lagadh is saying > (nirayan) 'sun in dhanistha' and lunar maagha sukla pratidpada are to > be, as it were, coordinated with uttarayan, you want to think vedanga > jyotish is sayan system like the Gregorain calendar. > > > > > > > > > > <Then again, you have yet to prove that the rashi division, > whether so called sayana (which you call Gregorian) or nirayana, which > you call shastriac, has any scientific basis!> > > > > > > > > > > The rashi division of 30 degrees is man made and has been handy > to control our adhimases and thus the lunar months.These are nirayan > months being attached to the stars.Thus they are sidereal or steller. > Since the sun, which really is fixed, is again rigidly fixed by this > circle of stars, divided into 30 degrees each, they seem to be much more > scientific than the months which alterntely take 30 and 31 days. The 12 > equal angular artificial division of space is surely the most scientific > way of looking at outer space, which approximates, with the 12 natural > lunar months. > > > > > > > > > > <Above all, would you kindly elucidate your insinuation as to > how I am asking you " to go by the concept brought into effect by Pope > Gregory " .> > > > > > The purely tropical method is prohibited by our tradition. It is > Pope Gregory who has introduced the purely tropical system, because they > have only solar months to think of. When you forget our coordinative > nature of the tropical and the sidereal systems by the lunar tithis, and > want to go purely tropcial in his footsteps, it does appear, quite an > imitation of his system. > > > > > Thank you and regards, > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri Hari Malla ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > > > < Perhaps your spelling is more acceptable. If my spelling is > not correct, > > > > > > then pardon me.> > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not a matter of spelling alone! Had you read any works > of > > > > > > Varahamihria actually yourself, you would not have been > flogging a wrong > > > > > > horse over such a long period! > > > > > > > > > > > > <I am trying to quote him in the chapter on Adityacharadhyaya, > perhaps the > > > > > > opening verses themselves. If my translation is not exact then > also I > > > > > > request you to correct me.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again the same confusion " perhaps " . Once you read Brihat > Samhita fully and > > > > > > compare the discussion of that Uttarayana-cum- Makar Sankranti > vis-a-vis the > > > > > > Uttarayana-cum- Makar Sankranti of the Surya Sidhanta of > Panchasidhantika by > > > > > > the same author, you will be able to understand as to how > Varahamihra has > > > > > > contradicted his own views himself about such phenomena. > > > > > > > > > > > > < But I am convinced that the intent of the verses, clarifies > that Vedanga > > > > > > jyotish was nirayan,'sun at dhanistha' being accepted as the > uttrayan for a > > > > > > very long time even nearly till the time of Varaha mihira > (spelling is > > > > > > yours).> > > > > > > > > > > > > My dear friend, pl. do read some books on astronomy! Sun in > Dhanishtha > > > > > > nakshatra is an annual phenomenon and has been going on ever > since the > > > > > > nakshatras-vis- a-vis the solar movement was recognized! So > what is nirayana > > > > > > about it? Similarly, sun is always in one or the other > nakshatra! Do you > > > > > > mean to say that sun is as such always nirayana? Same is the > case with the > > > > > > Moon! That is also in one or the other nakshatra always! Do > you mean to > > > > > > say that the Moon is always nirayana? > > > > > > > > > > > > What a confusion! > > > > > > > > > > > > If there had been any rashis prevailing at the time of the VJ > in India, the > > > > > > solar movement would have been recorded vis-a-vis the rashis > then during > > > > > > that period also. > > > > > > > > > > > > <The new uttarayan, he accepted after correction was also > nirayan since it > > > > > > is effective to this day as our practice shows so.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again another confusing statement! " Old uttarayana " was > nirayana because > > > > > > that was in some nakshtra! " New Uttarayana " also is nirayana > because it is > > > > > > in some rashi! Or do you mean to say that if it had been in > some rashi > > > > > > instead of nakshatra at the time of the VJ, it would not have > been nirayana > > > > > > then? > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, What is nirayana? " New Uttarayana " or makar Sankranti > according to > > > > > > you? If it is uttarayana, whether " new " or " old " , you are > again talking > > > > > > through your hat since Uttarayana is a geographical phenomenon > that has been > > > > > > going on from the dawn of creation and will continue till > doomsday! It will > > > > > > always fall in one or the other nakshatra! So to qualify it as > nirayana or > > > > > > sayana is to exhibit one's ignorance. > > > > > > > > > > > > If Makar Sankranti is nirayana according to you, that is just > your > > > > > > prerogative to consider it so! Rashis being imaginary > divisions of > > > > > > imaginary circles can be nirayana or sayana or co-ordinated or > disjointed or > > > > > > whatever, depending on the " state of mind " of the beholder. > > > > > > > > > > > > <This is the classic makar sankranti as uttarayan, along with > the shift of > > > > > > lunar uttrayan from the maaagha sukla pratipada of Vedanga > jyotish to Poush > > > > > > full moon.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is impossible to make either head or tail of your > statements! How many > > > > > > times do I have to remind you that Uttarayana is a > geographical phenomenon > > > > > > that is to be celebrated on the shortest day of the year? > There is no lunar > > > > > > uttarayana! It is up to you whether you call the Uttarayana > day makar > > > > > > Sankranti or Dhanu Sanrkanti or Kumbha Sankranti or no > Sankranit at all, > > > > > > though all the sidhantas and Puranas call Uttarayana day as > Makar Sankranti! > > > > > > If you do not want to believe in the Puranas or sidhantas, > including the > > > > > > Surya Sidhanta of Varahamihra, I cannot compel you to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, it is again up to you as to whether you call the > Uttarayana Day > > > > > > as the start of Tapah month or solar Magha month as desired by > the VJ. If > > > > > > you want to call that by some other name, I cannot compel you > not to do so, > > > > > > though all the sidhantas and Puranas say that the month of > solar Tapah and > > > > > > magha start from the day of Uttarayana! > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, it is for you to decide as to what name you would > like to give to > > > > > > the Purnima preceding or succeeding the Winter Solstice, > though all the > > > > > > Puranas say that we must call the preceding Purnima as Pausha > Shukla > > > > > > Purnima and succeeding Purnima as Magha Shukla Purnima. > > > > > > > > > > > > <This is also evident by the Maagha snana we are still > celebrating on Poush > > > > > > purnima. Please refer to dharma shastras.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again the same confusing and confounding statements! How can > any dharma > > > > > > shastra advise you to celebrate Magha snana on Pausha Purnima > since then it > > > > > > would advise you to celebrate Vaishkha snana on Chaitra > Purnima and so on. > > > > > > Pl. do not expose your motives all the more byt ascribing such > ignorance to > > > > > > dharmashatras! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <So my request to specially you shri Kaulji, do not try to > spoil our > > > > > > pristine vedic culture, with the concept brought into effect > by Pope > > > > > > Gregory.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Either your memory is proverbially short or you just do not > read any posts > > > > > > except your own! I have demonstrated it already in a different > post in > > > > > > response to a gentleman's insinuation that " Winter Solstice " > (uttarayana) is > > > > > > a Christian festival thrust on the Hindus by Christians, that > even the > > > > > > Julian Calendar, the erstwhile avatar of Gregorian calendar is > actually > > > > > > based on the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha! Or do you mean to > say that even > > > > > > Acharya Lagadha of fifteenth century BCE was influenced by > Pope Gregory of > > > > > > fifteenth century AD? > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, you have yet to prove that the rashi division, > whether so called > > > > > > sayana (which you call Gregorian) or nirayana, which you call > shastriac, has > > > > > > any scientific basis! > > > > > > > > > > > > Above all, would you kindly elucidate your insinuation as to > how I am asking > > > > > > you " to go by the concept brought into effect by Pope > Gregory " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " hari " <harimalla@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " hari " <harimalla@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Kaulji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namskar! Yes you are right. I mean him. Perhaps your > spelling is more > > > > > > acceptable.If my spelling is not corrrect, then pardon me. It > is him who > > > > > > wrote Brihad Samhita. I am trying to qouote him in the chapter > on > > > > > > Adityacharadhyaya, perhaps the opening verses themsielves. If > my translation > > > > > > is not exact then also I request you to correct me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I am convinced that the intent of the verses, clarifies > that Vedanga > > > > > > jyotish was nirayan,'sun at dhanistha' being accepted as the > uttrayan for a > > > > > > very long time even nearly till the time of Varaha mihira > (spelling is > > > > > > yours).The new uttarayan, he accepted after correction was > also nirayan > > > > > > since it is effective to this day as our practice shows > so.This is the > > > > > > classic makar sankranti as uttarayan,along with the shift of > lunar uttrayan > > > > > > from the maaagha sukla pratipada of Vedanga jyotish to Poush > full moon.This > > > > > > is also evidint by the Maagha snana we are still celebrating > on Poush > > > > > > purnima.Please refer to dharma shastras. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, we must now fix a new nirayan uttarayan which is > close to the > > > > > > present day tropical uttarayan which now falls not in the > range of puoush > > > > > > purnima but of mrigasira purnima. This would be in the > footsteps of our past > > > > > > reformations rather than succcumbing to the modern method of > Pope Gregory, > > > > > > whose culture is quite different from our culture, since they > do not tie up > > > > > > the sun and the moon with the help of adhimases and the stars > too. Mind > > > > > > you,I am not in favour of indefinite nityanness like many > astorlogers. But > > > > > > my view is that, the new nirayn sankranti should be close to > the present > > > > > > tropical sankranti so that although they are slightly > different,but since > > > > > > they both fall within the same fullmoon zone would give the > correct seasons > > > > > > to the tithis, which are the real basis of our celebrations. I > feel that > > > > > > those who advocate the sayan system or exactly season based as > you say, are > > > > > > not really aware of the importance of the nirayan tithis and > their tie up > > > > > > with the stars.Tying up the fullmoons with the stars and > naming the months > > > > > > as such seems to be older than Vedanga jyotish and is the very > foundation of > > > > > > our culture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So my request to specially you shri Kaulji, do not try to > spoil our > > > > > > pristine vedic culture, with the concept brought into effect > by Pope > > > > > > Gregory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Krishen " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri Hari Malla ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < What I know is Barahmihir says> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is this chap " Barahamihr " who is your pet flogging > horse? I have > > > > > > never heard about him! Was he anyway related to Varahamihira, > who is said to > > > > > > have compiled " Panchasidhanitka " etc. books in about fifth > century AD? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " hari " <harimalla@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhattacharyaji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I know is Barahmihir says the 'sun in > dhanistha'position as the > > > > > > start of uttarayan, was too old a concept then at his time and > the > > > > > > occurrence of uttarayan with the sun at makar sankranti was > logical and > > > > > > could be proved by checking practically. ' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start of Uttarayan with sun at makar sankranti > (beginning of makar > > > > > > rashi) occurred around 285 AD, as accepted nowadays. One month > shift of > > > > > > uttarayan occurs in around 2150 years. Thus around 2150-285 = > 1865 BC > > > > > > becomes the year when uttarayan occurred at the end of makar > rashi, 30 > > > > > > degrees after the beginning of makar rashi. Before that time, > uttarayan > > > > > > occurred when the sun was in Kumbha rashi and not in makar > rashi. Dakhinsysn > > > > > > started when the sun was in Karkat rashi in 285 AD, which > means in 1865 BC, > > > > > > it started when the sun was in the end of Karkat rashi. Before > that > > > > > > dakhinayan started when the sun was in Simha rashi.Thus at > around 32 century > > > > > > BCE uttarayan started when the sun was in Simha rashi. This is > the simple > > > > > > mathematics I can explain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The rest of the fantastic assumtions, explanations and > calculations > > > > > > that dakhinayan occurred when the sun entered makar rashi in > 32nd century > > > > > > BCE, I leave to you, shri Bhattacharyaji to explain. So please > go ahead and > > > > > > explain whatever you have assumed, by challenging yourself. I > will surely > > > > > > read it. Do not challenge me to do such silly task. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________ > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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