Guest guest Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote: Dear Darshaneylokeshji, Namskar! Let me deal with your quories more carefully this time. <I would like to make it very clear that the time itself even a fraction of a second is created only by the ever prevailing relationship of sun and the earth. Moon is none where in context . We also know that the Moon has no light of it's own and that it revolves around the earth only.> Yes time is created by the earth and its motions but the moon helps us to overcome time and reach eternal life we call as mokshya in dharma shastra.This is done by the discovery of the bary center of the earth and the moon which is the Purush or God.It is mentioned in Kala Madhav about the Purush as the center oftheluarn month. This is the very reason why all our festivals are celebrated on the basis of the tithis and not the solar dates.do you not know this? Yes the moon appears to revolve around the earth. But if you study higher science than the shool geography that you know, you will know that the earth and the moon both go around another point, which is the bary center, every month. The center of the monthly earth wobble(bary center) is also known in our religion as Shiva Linga. The 12 lunar months in one year makes possible the 12 jyotir linga, which is spread over Bharatvarsha. Bharat 'varsha' in the puranic language means the solar year. Jyotir linga is a Shaiva concept of the bary center.These are also known as 12 Adityas in the vaishnava concept. <By renaming the Chaitra as Vaisakh on the every year of need  we ca modulate our time being solution in the calendar but think it seriously, it will be just next to impossible for you to trace out the date of a long past i.e. 200, 300. 400...... and son years back. One by one but nomalies will reamain there unavoidable.> There crops up no problem at all, as you say. After naming chaitra as vaisakh,we can keep history as to when the reformation was done. By keeping this history of 30 degree shift each 2150 years,we can always keep the records of any time in history as we have always been doing with the help of ayanamsa. The new Mesh becomes the epochal mesh and with respect to original mesh, we can keep the difference as 30, 60, 90 degrees etc.every 2150 years or so and divide the great year of 25800 years into 12 shift of epochal months. In fact our dharma shastra has intended to mean by the word manawantar - to mean such epochal monthly shifts.They have assumed 14 shifts and called them as 14 manwantars.This was due to the shift assumed to be every 27 degrees of ayanamsa, which is with respect to the sidereal lunar months of 27 days. <So,Ritus (Season) and say every thing related to the life on earth is not effected by any star other than the Sun. > This is genearally speaking quite true . But what you have forgotten is that the star world of naksyatras is the home of the sun, since the sun is only of one of the many stars.The knowledge of the stars is necessary to know the home of the sun.Thus the star world is known as the 'turia' heaven in our phlospphy. When the sun is experienced as member of the star world this is known as 'Sayujya' mokshya which has been mentioned in surya sidhanta too, towards the end of the book.The mention of 'Tat sabitur vareniyam' in our gayatri mantra, is the sun with respet to the stars only eternally fixed, not the sun we see rising and setting every day, illusion caused by our 'earthly' vision. <7- I have put my mathematical explaination before all erudites. You have not touched that but still talking ‘nirayana’, ‘sayana’ due to your ‘nirayan attachments (Moh)’ and ‘sayana hate (vair)’as is evident from your statement,†Since you are also a man interested in the truth, may I request you to let people know of the alternate method to reform our calendar by the coordinative system, where the panchanga remains nirayan as it is the old custome“. Therefore, so far these two words are fetched in to the  brain   you may not be free from such ‘raag-dwesh’. You do not know that basing ‘ayanamsha’ right from 0 to 360 degrees will give you relative measures only. E.g. Kathmandu may be at the distance of 10,100,500,1000 or any more Kms but from where? That ‘where’ talks of your ayanamsha. For true idea of it’s location, you will have to talk interms of Latitude and Longitudes. In this way zodical measurements are needed > to be given on the basis of ‘Shar’ and ‘bhogamsha’ and initial ‘shar and bhogamshas’ are zero/zero. This ‘zero’ is free from the bases of your raag and dwesh. Ok? It is that raag and dwesh only due to which your replies are always- 1> Haste written and 2> Not proper since you do not seem to have  even    read the mail completely.> My nirayan attachment is the vedic attacment.Our system was always nirayan shown even by Vedanga jyotish.We should not pretend to be cleverer than the vedic rishis. The zero point is started from epoch to epoch at various times with each nirayan sakranitis month after month. AS we at present take Mesh sankranti as the starting point, we can shift this mesh calling the new epochal mesh as the nirayan epochal VE. thenew epochal mesh as compared to the original mesh will have the difference of 30 60, 90, 120 degrees etc say, about every two thousand one hundred and fifty years.If at present we shift the nirayn mesh by 30 degrees, the new ayanamsa becomes about (-)6 degrees. This serves as the new nirayan longitudes. It will take some more time for you to understand all these things I have said. But you must be seriously interested to understand and also be persistently discussing with me. Shri AK Kaulji said his patience got exhausted, when he reached near the truth. Have you read the proposal of Bal gangadhar Tilak and the refutation of SB dixit in the Bharatiya jyotish? I again request you to do so , since many of your confusion will vanish then. When you think my letters are haste written, I am taking only the main points, so your confusion is removed at the root.When you correct the main concept many of your other concepts get corrected by themselves. Thus I do not feel the need to answer all the questions all at once, both major and minor. If firstly the major points are clarified, then the minor can be taken care of later on. So much for today.Tahnk ;you for your patience. Regards, Hari Malla HinduCalendar , darshaney lokesh <darshaneylokesh@> wrote: > > > > Dear Shri Hari Mlla ji, Namastey. >          Is it really that you think a person who has devoted his 20 years to calendar reform > and have now come to finalise his proposal for the true vedic calendar would have not gone > through the Dharm Sinndhu and Nirnay sindhu . . . . .? >        Is it that your unclear concept of Dharmshashtr is weighing more in comparision to that of Pujya Paad Shringeri Shankaracharya ji Maharaj of Samvat 2029 who after thorogh study of all relevent matters and have already proclaimed Niryana system not fit for religiously bent hindus since it cannot give us right  tithis for celebrations of our festivals? >        Is it not that Shri SB Dixit has not taken a trustworthy supprt of that 'Mathadesh' and > published that in his famous work ' Bhartiya Jyotish' ? For what purpose he has done so? >       Now you are emphasizing on 'Tradition', Could you kindly clarify that Vedic tradion up to Munjal was more proper or after Munjal is more proper? so for Planetary calculations are of concern, what is the difference between the two? How can that difference be taken into account in deciding a true vedic calasnder? >       You were suggested to submit a calendar of your opinion, at least for one or two months, to enable us understanding exactly what you mean to say. Donot you feel your > irresponsibility by not doing that so far? >       Regarding your unnecesary talks of Lunar Seasons for calendar purpose I have already > gien my views and answer from yours' is still awaited. These views are reproduced here under - > "   Despite of my best regards to him, I am bound to reveal you the fact that he has little understanding of impaact of precession of equinox. Note that a day i.e. Dinman and a night i.e. Ratriman are the UNITS of Months, then Ritus, then Ayans and then finally of the Varsh i.e. years. >       As we all know that theses days and nights are caused by 'On axis rotation of the earth ( in front of the Sun) and Ritus are caused by movements of the same earth but on it's ecliptical  path around the Sun. Likewise the Ayans are caused by maximum south (Uttarayan) and North (Daxinayan) declination with relation to the Sun. The Sun and the earth are only the base elements of day and nights and not the Moon. I would like to make it very clear that the time itself even a fraction of a second is created only by the ever prevailing relationship of sun and the earth. Moon is none where in context .In this connection remember able is a famous reply of our ex President Dr APJ Abdul Kalam to the question put by some one politician that whether the President would like to have fixed an auspicious muhurth for his swearing as President of the country? The Moon is contextive but in Tithis, Eclipses, yogas like Vyatipaat and Vaidhriti and lunar > month including Adhi or Kshya months. >          We also know that the Moon has no light of it's own and   that it revolves around the earth only. With the Moon creates only tithis from 1st to 15th (BFN) and 16th to 30th(DFN) Duration of these tithis or Moon Rise and Moon Set does not give us any Day or Night i.e. Dinman or Ratriman. and thus this Luna i.e. the Moon cannot give us the Seasons and Ayans as the way the Sun gives. Neither at reaching it's Zero declination Moon can give us equal Day and Night duration nor at it's maximum declination it can give us the extended day/night or shortned night/day. Neither we can do it's Chhayendu Sadhan nor we can observe any Lats and Longs with the help of Moon. Rigved clearifies that the Sungoverns the earth and not the > moon, " UXAADADHARPRITHIVIMUDYAAM. " >             More over much talked Ayanamsha is a total precesion  of the ayan and that has nothing to do for calendar making. By renaming the Chaitr as Vaisakh on the every year of need  we ca modulate our time being solution in the calendar but think it seriously, it will be just next to impossible for you to trace out the date of a long past i.e. 200, 300. 400...... and son years back. One by one but nomalies will reamain there unavoidable. >        The concept of NIRAYANA ( I call it niraadhar) proclaims that the earth revolves around the Chitra Taara and not that of the sun. When earth crosses the midway > line of the said Chitra tara and enters from North to South or South to North it fixes the starting points of the Mesha and Tula . Now please mind it that the said taara is > 260 LY far from our Sun and is beyond two degree south of the ecliptic. So,Ritus (Season) and say every thing related to the life on earth is not effected by any star other than the > Sun. To trade on the Nirayana or even Sayana is nothing but  " Andhainaiv neeyamaana yatha andhah " . Option is open for what to do or what not to do " . >         and now last two point of this mail - >        Please note that Nirayana aspects of the ecliptic, since niradhar, are not 'Drik tulya' and hence question does not arise of any coordination for the purpose of a true vedic panchang. >        What about NINE (very specialy the 7th) oteher points of my privious and the subject mail? >        Thanks. Aum Sham ! >                                                    Darshaney Lokesh > > > HinduCalendar, darshaney lokesh > >  Shri hari Malla ji, Namestey. >     Since, myself interested in truth and truth alone I’d like to clarify a few things to you - >  > 1- True panchanga can never be either sayan or nirayan or both or neither. Actually a panchanga (hence forth called as tithi patrak, it being more appropriate nomenclature) has nothing to do with Ayanamsha (what so ever it’s value may be) resulting from precession of equinoxes, as against common thinking. >  > 2- You have been talking a lot of about coordinative approach. For coordination we must have at least two  things which needs to be coordinated having at least one point in common at which the things are to be coordinated. Plz Let me know, the things you are interested in coordinating and the common point of coordination. >  > 3-  Your logic regarding oldness of a custom is also not valid since this  is the arguement on wich Gaililio was trailed. At so may phases this arguement has harmed the humanity very much. That is the reason that  Kalidas had to say,â€Puranmittev na saadhu sarvam. .†An old custom, just because of its oldness, a thing canot be carried forward at least after getting known of its correctness.The same has been done for quite a few old customs. We have touched one of those. >  > 4- The word “lunar season†in itself is a misnomer as “vandhya putra†( son of a vandhya lady). The word “lunar season†has got zero meaning. I hope you understand the meaning of meaning. >  > 5- Truth is alone; there can not be two ways to choose from. Truth is not a matter of choice. It is as such “tat twam asiâ€. When we choose, we choose either the most suitable or the least objectionable. Truth is neither that which is most suitable nor that which is most objectionable. >  > 6- Definitely working together saves time. I request you to have a look of Shri Mohan Krity Aarsh Tithi Patrak. We too are looking forward for your cooperation if you come with your self amended form for which you require to follow ,following, important, points.. >  > 7- I have put my mathematical explaination before all erudites. You have not touched that but still talking ‘nirayana’, ‘sayana’ due to your ‘nirayan attachments (Moh)’ and ‘sayana hate (vair)’as is evident from your statement,†Since you are also a man interested in the truth, may I request you to let people know of the alternate method to reform our calendar by the coordinative system, where the panchanga remains nirayan as it is the old custome“. Therefore, so far these two words are fetched in to the  brain   you may not be free from such ‘raag-dwesh’. You do not know that basing ‘ayanamsha’ right from 0 to 360 degrees will give you relative measures only. E.g. Kathmandu may be at the distance of 10,100,500,1000 or any more Kms but from where? That ‘where’ talks of your ayanamsha. For true idea of it’s location, you will have to talk interms of Latitude and Longitudes. In this way zodical measurements are needed > to be given on the basis of ‘Shar’ and ‘bhogamsha’ and initial ‘shar and bhogamshas’ are zero/zero. This ‘zero’ is free from the bases of your raag and dwesh. Ok? It is that raag and dwesh only due to which your replies are always- >     1> Haste written and >     2> Not proper since you do not seem to have  even    read the mail completely. >  > 8 †" See your advise (what type of advise is this that  looks like an order?),†I am advising him to give another alternative to the public and quote the availability of the nirayana method too.†Sorry dear friend, I have calculated and framed the correct vedic calendar which is the outcome of my longest devotion of years together. It is not the mere matter of,†Since you are also a man interested in the. . .†but devotion of years together This language of your’s is very cheaper way for under rating my ‘total devotion’. If you do not amend yourself then, please,  I will have to amend myself by neglecting your mails. I am sure, By this way, we would save at least our time from being wasted. >  > 9- You have also been talking a lot about the Sun being in Dhanishta at Uttarayan/Makar samkranti during VJ period. In his latest mail Shri Bhattacharya has also put some valid arguments. Can you please clearify if VJ people were able to see Sun and Dhanishta simultaneously? Generally we can not see any star, other than the Sun while Sun is in the sky. If otherwise, then what is the meaning of Sun at Uttarayan/Makarsamkranti in Dhanishta.Is it that Dhanishta was rising in east during the said samkranti or is it that Dhanishta was at Mid-haeaven in the night of that event? What else? >      Hari ji, Nakshtras are primarily related to moon and its’ orbital path and hence seen and recorded in relation to moon alone. Sun’s relation to nakshtrais depicted with the rising of stars at evening or early morning after tropical event like Vasant Sampat etc e.g. Margsheersh name of the star  signifies its’ importance. The star is supposed to be the sheers (i.e. head or the starting point )of the path of the Sun arround Earth was the star rising in east, after VE,  during early vedic period. This position was changed to Kritika, Rohini and Asvini in course of time. Presently the star is Uttarabhadrapad. Ultimately, I feel unless you will not understand delinks between rashis and nakshtras, it will remain very difficult for you to get rid of from your ‘Dhanishta riddle. >       > 10- And now a humble  request to every member of Hindu Calendar Group that the Arsh Tithi Patrak that I have produced is (from my side) a ‘correct’ one and very sincerely managed with my limited knowledge and guidance available to me. However,  it is not yet a ‘complete’ one. There are certain things in my mind which I am not going to disclose at this immature stage. Knowledgeable members  may please take it confiremed that any of the suggestion coming from them ( including Sunil K Bhattacharya ji)  will be sincerely attended to. If I found them correct I will certainly manage those suggestions. Please be with me learnedly but igolessly. > Thanks. Aum Sham! >  > Acharya Darshaney Lokesh > Editor, Shri Mohan Krity Aarsh Tithi Patrak >  > hari <harimalla@> > HinduCalendar > Thu, 12 November, 2009 5:08:38 PM > [HinduCalendar] Re: MeshadI & Tuladi > > Dear shri Darshaneylokesh ji, > Since you are also a man interested in the truth, may I request you to let people know of the alternate method to reform our calendar by the coordinative system, where the panchanga remains nirayan as it is the old custome. Let them know both the sayan method you are advocating and also the method I am trying to propagate. This will save our common time frame for reform, if we cooperate with each other in this way, so that the Hindus of India will get a chance to choose from the two methods. Thanks, > Regards, > Hari Malla >  > HinduCalendar, darshaney lokesh <darshaneylokesh@ ....> wrote: > > >  Respected Kaul ji, > > Namastey. > > >I received today your post with cuttings from Amar Ujala and Dainik Jagran ..There appears to be a steady uneasy feeling in the minds of general public that they are really celebrating their festivals on worng days. I am sure it will gather momentum and ultimately, " satyam eva jayate nanrtiam " > > * Of course! As ‘Sarthee of the Satya’ (Satyya ke saarthee ke roop men) dedicated for doing that. The enclosed cuttings have been sent to more than 200 astrologers and panchanga makers since those  were giving nice coverage of the Chandausi Sammelan of Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar Samiti, > > >Regarding the post " Meshadi & Tuladi " , I think it is the one that I am copying below from Hinducalendar forum. Pl. let me know. > >*Definitely, it is the same. > > It is to also let you know that the famous and quite relevant MATTHAADESH of Samvat 1929 is being reproduced in the SMKATP -2067 along with  three foot notes asking to the present param poojya shree that- > >  1. The said MATTHAADESH is still standing or cancelled? > >  2. If yes, then let us know the draft matter of the cancellation of the  MATTHAADESH. > >  3. If not, then how the Panchangas are being observed and how the Festivals are being observed by the loyal devotees of the respected MATH. > >  It is also brought in the notice of all concerning learned members of this group  that Sri Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak -2066, 2067 have been sent to almost all the MATHS through the Patrone, Shri Rahimal Prasad Tivari, Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar Samiti and following to that, Poojya Shankaracharya ji of Kanchipuram had called on me to his Ashram.. The invitation was  replied back asking for clear agenda of the meeting. Further reply from his holiness is awaited. I hope members will appreceiate and encourage my action. > > This is in reply to an another mail received from you. > > Thanks. Aum Sham. > > Darshaney Lokesh, Genl Secretary, > > Akhil Bhartiya Panchang Sudhar Samiti  > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in./ > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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