[VRI] [WAVES-Vedic] The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet

December 2, 2009

Dear friends,

So here is another untruth from Jyotirved:

////Â Â 1. As all the

siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is

the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti,Â

would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why?Â Â ///

Firstly Jyotirved does not know the meaning of Uttarayana. Uttarayana is the

period of six months of the northern course of the Sun. Uttarayana starts with

the shortest day and continues till the longest day is reached. Calling the

shortest day as the Uttarayana day is not correct. It should be called only as

the starting day of the Uttarayana.

No Purana had called the starting day of the Uttarayana as the Makar Sankranti.

Makar Sankranti is when there is Makar Sankramana, ie. when the Sun enters the

Makar Rashi. The Makar RashiÂ is sidereal or Nirayana and it is as defined in

the Vamana purana is from the the beginning of the second pada of the

Uttarashadha Nakshatra to the end of the second pada of the Dhanishtha

Nakshatra. Due to precession there was a time in the past when the Makar

Sankranti and the starting day of the Uttarayana coincided.. Now a days the

Makar Sankranti falls within the six months period of the Uttarayana. Any

astronomer will tell you that in the 32nd century BCE ie.during the times of the

Mahabharata war, the Makar Sankranti did not fall in the Uttarayana period at

all.

I am sure this will go over the head of Jyotirved as he does not have the

capacity to understand this.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Wed, 12/2/09, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote:

jyotirved <jyotirved

[VRI] [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet

vedic_research_institute

Cc: hinducalendar , ,

indiaarchaeology , " 'subash razdan' " <subashrazdan

Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 7:46 AM

Â

Dear friends,

Jai Shri Ram!

Shri Sunil

Bhattacharjya has said, â€œPuranas have not talked about Sayana rashi chakra.

Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your bluffs.â€

This request is,

as such, for the rest of the members except for Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya!

1. As all the

siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is

the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti,Â

would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why?

2. As all the

siddhantas and Puranas tell us that Vishuva is the day when day is equal to

night and those very days are known as Mesha and Tula Sankrantis, would you call

such Tula and Mesha Sankrantis as nirayana or sayana and why?

3. As all the

siddhantas and puranas tell us that Dakshinayana Day i.e. Summer Solstice is

the longest day of the year and that very day is known as Karkata Sankranti,

would you call such a Karkata Sankranti as nirayana or sayana and why?

4. As all the

siddhantaqs and puranas tell us that the lunar months Chaitra, Vaishakha etc.

months, which are also known as Madhu, Madhava etc months,Â start

immediately after the Mina and Mesha Sankrantis etc. what would you call such

synodic months, especially since Chaitra and Vaishakha have been named as the

two months of Vasanta Ritu; Jyeshtha and Ashada as the two months of Grishma

Ritu and so on?

5. As the

Tantra Shastras tell us that the day is the shortest when it is Makar

Sankranti,Â longest when it is Karkata Sankranti and so on, would you call

such Â Tantra-shastraÂ Makar and Karkata Sankrntis as Sayana or nirayana?

6. As Â Alberuni

says that in the eleventh century India, Makar Sankranti was being celebrated on

the shortest day of the year after the ayanamsha corrections had been

introduced by Munjala through his Laghumanasa, what would you call such a Makar

Sankranti and so on.

In fact, I

could go on citing hundreds if not thousands of such instances, but I am sure

the above sample is more than enough to give a clear picture of the system of

rashis, whether so called sayana or so called nirayana, that India was

following till a couple of centuries back, whatever Â people like Shri Sunil

Bhattacharjya may say.

Jai Shri Ram.

A K Kaul

--- In

vedic_research_ institute, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear friends,

>

> All the Rashis mentioned in the puranas are Sidereal as shown in the

Vamana purana and no other purana had contradicted that. No purana ever said

that the rashis are not sidereal. Let Jyotirved show a single statement if any

purana specifically mentioned that the Rashis are not sidereeal. AllÃ‚Â the

Rashis mentioned in the Puranas, as quoted byÃ‚Â Jyotirved in hisÃ‚Â

BVB6.doc,Ã‚Â Ã‚Â are sidereal. His assertions that the Rashis are not

sidereal would not change what Vamana purana says about the rashis. The Vamana

purana tells us which are the nakshatras in a particular Rashi.. Puranas have

not talked about Sayana rashi chakra. Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your

bluffs.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Krishen jyotirved@.. . wrote:

>

> Krishen jyotirved@.. .

> [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet

>

> Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:22 AM

>

> Ã‚Â

>

> Dear friends,

>

> Jai Shri Ram!

>

> Shri Bhattacharjya has said, " No purana had ever said thatÃƒâ€š the

>

> Uttarayana day is the Makar Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that

>

> the Uttarayana shifts fron nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in

>

> course of time. The Bhagavata Purana was recited before Parikshita in

>

> the 31st century BCE and at that time Makar Sankranti was in the

>

> Dakshinayana andÃƒâ€š any astronomer worth his salt qwill admit this.. I

>

> mentioned that in my earlier mail and Jyotirved ignores that to his

>

> convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on toleratingsuchÃƒâ€š bluffs after

>

> bluffs. "

>

> Just to refresh Shri Bhattacharjya' s memory, I am quoting just a few

>

> excerpts from BVB6.doc so that the forum members can see it for

>

> themsleves that the Puranas and also the sidhantas talk invariably of a

>

> so called Sayana Rashichakra when they say that on the day of Mesha

>

> Sankranti day is equal to night and so on.

>

> Jai Shri Ram.

>

> ******** ********

>

> ******

>

> 5. Puranas: I have already quoted hundreds of proofs with

>

> chapter and verse in my Panchangas and other articles. It is no use to

>

> repeat them here again. Suffice to quote a few only from a couple of

>

> Puranas. First the Vishnupurana: 2/8/28-31 and 67-68

>

> ayanasyotarasyadav makaram yati bhaskarah

>

> tatah kumbham cha menam cha rashe rashyantaram dvija

>

> (28)

>

> trishu eteshu atha bhukteshu tato vaishuvatim gatim

>

> prayati savita kurvan ahoratram tatah samam

>

> (29)

>

> tato ratrih kshayam yati vardhate anudinam dinam

>

> (30)

>

> tatashcha mithunasyante param kashtham upagatah

>

> rashim karkatam prapya kurute dakshinayanam

>

> (31)

>

> " In the beginning of Uttarayana, the sun enters

>

> Capricorn (Makara Rashi) there from going to Kumbha and them Mina. After

>

> having passed through these three signs, it just gains vishuvati

>

> (equinoctial) speed resulting in the day and night being equal on Mesha.

>

> After that, nights start decreasing and the days increasing

>

> correspondingly daily. Then when the sun is in the end of Mithuna Rashi,

>

> i.e. when it is just at the verge of entering Cancer, the day is the

>

> longest then and Dakshnayana starts on that date " .

>

> Sharad vsantyor Madhye vishuvam to vibhavyete

>

> Tula mesh gate bhanav samratri divam tu tat

>

> (67)

>

> Karkatavasthite bhanav dakshiyanamuchete

>

> Uttarayanam api uktam makarasthe divakare

>

> (88)

>

> " In the midst of sharat ritu and vasanta ritu, vishuvas (equinoxes)

>

> take place with the entry of the sun into Tula (Libra) and Mesha (Aries)

>

> respectively and days and nights become equal on those two sankrantis.

>

> The entry of sun into Cancer (Karkata) is known as dakshinayana whereas

>

> its entry into Maraka is known as Uttarayana "

>

> Now Shrimadbhagavata, 5/21/4-6

>

> yada mesh tulyor vartate tada ahoratrani samanani bhavanti yada

>

> vrishadishu panchasu cha rashishu charati tada ahani eva vardhante

>

> hrasati cha masi masi ekaika ghatika ratrishu (4) yada

>

> vrishchikadishu panchasu vartate tada ahoratrani viparyayani bhavanti

>

> (5) yavad dakshinayanam ahani vardhante yavad uttarayanam ratrayah

>

> (6)

>

> " When the sun enters Mesha and Tula days and nights are equal on

>

> those dates and the day starts getting longer as compared to nights when

>

> the sun passes through Vrisha etc. five rashis then days keep on

>

> increasing and the nights decreasing by one ghati every month. (After

>

> the day and night have become equal on Tula Sankranti) the nights keep

>

> on increasing during the sojourn of five rashis of Vrishchika etc. In

>

> short, during Uttarayana days keep on increasing till Dakshinayana and

>

> after that nights keep on increasing " .

>

> Vishnurhdarmotarapu rana 3/8/6-8 says

>

> tula meshagate bhanav vishuvad dinam uchete,

>

> dhanvato mithunantashcha ayane soasya dakshine,

>

> " When the sun is in Mesha and Tula, they are the days of Vishuva

>

> i.e. days and nights are equal then. From the end of Dhanu (start of

>

> Makara) Uttarayana starts and from the end of Mithuna (start of Karkata)

>

> Dakshniyana starts "

>

> Any discussion on such topics is incomplete without appropriate

>

> references from Shivamahapurana: We just quote one 5/51/54 from this

>

> Purana below:

>

> madhavasya site pakshe tritiya ya akshayabida

>

> tasyam yo jagadambayah vratam kuryad atandritahÃ¢â‚¬Â¦

>

> " The tritiya of Shukla paksha of Madhava (!) is know as akshayaya

>

> tritiya. One who observes a fast for Jagadamba on that date (gets

>

> immortal and thousand fold results) "

>

> It is to be noted here that Akshaya tritiya is to be

>

> observed in (lunar) Madhava that means according to Shiva-Mahapurana

>

> also Vaishakha does not have any other existence besides Madhava! Thus

>

> the akshyaya tritiya that we observed in 2003 on May 4, was against all

>

> the shastras since solar Madhava had ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava

>

> on April 30! A similar situation is going to crop up in 2005. We will

>

> be asked to celebrate Akshaya tritiya on May 12, when solar Madhava will

>

> have ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava shukla paksha will start on

>

> April 8, 2005 which means it should be celebrated actually on April 11,

>

> 2005!

>

> Now obviously, if as per all the Vedas, Vedanga Jyotisha, Surya

>

> Sidhanta, Bhagavata, Vishnupurana, Vishnudharmotarapur ana and Shiva

>

> Mahapurana etc. etc. solar Shravana is another name of Dakshinayana viz

>

> sun in Karkata, it starts on June 21 in 2004. The first shukla pratipat

>

> after that is on July 18. Therefore, that is the day when the Lunar

>

> Shravana starts in 2004 as per all the Vedas and Puranas etc. As such,

>

> Shravana Purnima viz Raksha Bandhan and Amarnath Yatra etc. should be

>

> celebrated on July 31 in 2004. Why are our panchangakars asking us to

>

> celebrate it on August 29 instead? Only because they treat the entire

>

> Hindu society as ignorant fools who have no idea about the criteria of

>

> any festivals! Or is it that the panchangakars do not know anything

>

> themselves but are just copying from others like blind following blind?

>

> End excerpt

>

> ******* *********

>

> *******

>

> , Sunil Bhattacharjya

>

> <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear friends,

>

> >

>

> > Jyotirved gives another bluff when he says as follows "

>

> >

>

> > ///Ãƒâ€š Ãƒâ€š Surprisingly, all the Puranas and sidhantas (and not the

>

> Vedas or the VJ!) call that very Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti!Ãƒâ€š

>

> Ãƒâ€š ///

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > No purana had ever said thatÃƒâ€š the Uttarayana day is the Makar

>

> Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that the Uttarayana shifts fron

>

> nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in course of time. The Bhagavata

>

> Purana was recited before Parikshita in the 31st century BCE and at that

>

> time Makar Sankranti was in the Dakshinayana andÃƒâ€š any astronomer

>

> worth his salt qwill admit this.. I mentioned that in my earlier mail

>

> and Jyotirved ignores that to his convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on

>

> toleratingsuchÃƒâ€š bluffs after bluffs.

>

> >

>

> > Secondly since JyotirvedÃƒâ€š does not believe in Sidereal Makar

>

> SankrantiÃƒâ€š he has no business to poke his long nose into the million

>

> dollar question. Let the believers discuss such points and not

>

> Jyotirved.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> >

>

> > Sunil K. Bhattachatrjya

>

> >

>

> > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, jyotirved jyotirved@ . wrote:

>

> >

>

> > jyotirved jyotirved@ .

>

> > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

>

> Norelli-Bachelet

>

> >

>

> > Cc: hinducalendar, " 'subash razdan' "

subashrazdan@ ...,

>

> vedic_research_ institute,

>

> indiaarchaeology

>

> > Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:57 AM

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

December 8, 2009

Dear all,

How does Mr Harimalla explain that the Sun entered Makar rashi in the

dakshinayana in the 32nd century BCE?

My ckallenge to Mr. hari to explain this first.

Regards,

Sunil K. bhattacharjya

--- On Mon, 12/7/09, hari <harimalla wrote:

hari <harimalla

[VRI] [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet

" Sunil Bhattacharjya " <sunil_bhattacharjya

Monday, December 7, 2009, 7:01 AM

Dear all,

Sorry to say that both Bhattacharyaji and Robertsonji carry only half truths,

like the blind men who went to feel the elephant. When the shastras say

uttarayan starts on makar sankranti day,it simply means that for conveneience

makar sankranti is taken as uttaryan although it was approximately uttarayan.

WhenÂ both makar sankranti and uttrayan are covered by poush fullmoon in its

fluctuation over one month, then the delusion vanishes.This is the vedic truth

which modern western educated people have difficulty to understand.The reason is

they do no tknow that the vedic people gave importance to the 'purush' or 'God'

which is experienced at the center of the lunar orbit. Thus I would say both

sayanbad and nirayanbad are in the dark. Only the lunarbad know the truth which

coordinats both sayan and nirayan concepts.This truly is the vedic concept and

non else.Oen may refer to vedanga jyotish to see how the two conepts are

coordinated.

Thus my friends, who enjoy in debates more tahn the total truth and do not want

to compromise have only partial place in the vedic lore.The vedas are

comprehensive and all inclusive. Not limited like the brains of some so called

learned people are.

Hari Malla

WAVES-Vedic , Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear friends,

>

> So here is another untruth from Jyotirved:

>

> ////Â Â 1. As all the

> siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is

> the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti,Â

> would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why?Â Â ///

>

> Firstly Jyotirved does not know the meaning of Uttarayana. Uttarayana is the

period of six months of the northern course of the Sun. Uttarayana starts with

the shortest day and continues till the longest day is reached. Calling the

shortest day as the Uttarayana day is not correct. It should be called only as

the starting day of the Uttarayana.

>

> No Purana had called the starting day of the Uttarayana as the Makar

Sankranti. Makar Sankranti is when there is Makar Sankramana, ie. when the Sun

enters the Makar Rashi. The Makar RashiÂ is sidereal or Nirayana and it is as

defined in the Vamana purana is from the the beginning of the second pada of the

Uttarashadha Nakshatra to the end of the second pada of the Dhanishtha

Nakshatra. Due to precession there was a time in the past when the Makar

Sankranti and the starting day of the Uttarayana coincided.. Now a days the

Makar Sankranti falls within the six months period of the Uttarayana. Any

astronomer will tell you that in the 32nd century BCE ie.during the times of the

Mahabharata war, the Makar Sankranti did not fall in the Uttarayana period at

all.

>

> I am sure this will go over the head of Jyotirved as he does not have the

capacity to understand this.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Wed, 12/2/09, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote:

>

> jyotirved <jyotirved

> [VRI] [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet

> vedic_research_institute

> Cc: hinducalendar , ,

indiaarchaeology , " 'subash razdan' " <subashrazdan

> Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 7:46 AM

>

Â

>

Dear friends,

>

> Jai Shri Ram!

>

> Shri Sunil

> Bhattacharjya has said, â€œPuranas have not talked about Sayana rashi chakra.

> Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your bluffs.â€

>

> This request is,

> as such, for the rest of the members except for Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya!

>

> 1. As all the

> siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is

> the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti,Â

> would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why?

>

> 2. As all the

> siddhantas and Puranas tell us that Vishuva is the day when day is equal to

> night and those very days are known as Mesha and Tula Sankrantis, would you

call

> such Tula and Mesha Sankrantis as nirayana or sayana and why?

>

> 3. As all the

> siddhantas and puranas tell us that Dakshinayana Day i.e. Summer Solstice is

> the longest day of the year and that very day is known as Karkata Sankranti,

> would you call such a Karkata Sankranti as nirayana or sayana and why?

>

> 4. As all the

> siddhantaqs and puranas tell us that the lunar months Chaitra, Vaishakha etc.

> months, which are also known as Madhu, Madhava etc months,Â start

> immediately after the Mina and Mesha Sankrantis etc. what would you call such

> synodic months, especially since Chaitra and Vaishakha have been named as the

> two months of Vasanta Ritu; Jyeshtha and Ashada as the two months of Grishma

> Ritu and so on?

>

> 5. As the

> Tantra Shastras tell us that the day is the shortest when it is Makar

> Sankranti,Â longest when it is Karkata Sankranti and so on, would you call

> such Â Tantra-shastraÂ Makar and Karkata Sankrntis as Sayana or nirayana?

>

> 6. As Â Alberuni

> says that in the eleventh century India, Makar Sankranti was being celebrated

on

> the shortest day of the year after the ayanamsha corrections had been

> introduced by Munjala through his Laghumanasa, what would you call such a

Makar

> Sankranti and so on.

>

> In fact, I

> could go on citing hundreds if not thousands of such instances, but I am sure

> the above sample is more than enough to give a clear picture of the system of

> rashis, whether so called sayana or so called nirayana, that India was

> following till a couple of centuries back, whatever Â people like Shri Sunil

> Bhattacharjya may say.

>

> Jai Shri Ram.

>

> A K Kaul

>

> --- In

> vedic_research_ institute, Sunil Bhattacharjya

> <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear friends,

>

> >

>

> > All the Rashis mentioned in the puranas are Sidereal as shown in the

> Vamana purana and no other purana had contradicted that. No purana ever said

> that the rashis are not sidereal. Let Jyotirved show a single statement if any

> purana specifically mentioned that the Rashis are not sidereeal. AllÃ‚Â the

> Rashis mentioned in the Puranas, as quoted byÃ‚Â Jyotirved in hisÃ‚Â

> BVB6.doc,Ã‚Â Ã‚Â are sidereal. His assertions that the Rashis are not

> sidereal would not change what Vamana purana says about the rashis. The Vamana

> purana tells us which are the nakshatras in a particular Rashi.. Puranas have

> not talked about Sayana rashi chakra. Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your

> bluffs.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> >

>

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Krishen jyotirved@ . wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Krishen jyotirved@ .

>

> > [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

> Norelli-Bachelet

>

> >

>

> > Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:22 AM

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Ã‚Â

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Dear friends,

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Jai Shri Ram!

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Shri Bhattacharjya has said, " No purana had ever said thatÃƒâ€š the

>

> >

>

> > Uttarayana day is the Makar Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that

>

> >

>

> > the Uttarayana shifts fron nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in

>

> >

>

> > course of time. The Bhagavata Purana was recited before Parikshita in

>

> >

>

> > the 31st century BCE and at that time Makar Sankranti was in the

>

> >

>

> > Dakshinayana andÃƒâ€š any astronomer worth his salt qwill admit this.. I

>

> >

>

> > mentioned that in my earlier mail and Jyotirved ignores that to his

>

> >

>

> > convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on toleratingsuchÃƒâ€š bluffs after

>

> >

>

> > bluffs. "

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Just to refresh Shri Bhattacharjya' s memory, I am quoting just a few

>

> >

>

> > excerpts from BVB6.doc so that the forum members can see it for

>

> >

>

> > themsleves that the Puranas and also the sidhantas talk invariably of a

>

> >

>

> > so called Sayana Rashichakra when they say that on the day of Mesha

>

> >

>

> > Sankranti day is equal to night and so on.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Jai Shri Ram.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ******** ********

>

> >

>

> > ******

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > 5. Puranas: I have already quoted hundreds of proofs with

>

> >

>

> > chapter and verse in my Panchangas and other articles. It is no use to

>

> >

>

> > repeat them here again. Suffice to quote a few only from a couple of

>

> >

>

> > Puranas. First the Vishnupurana: 2/8/28-31 and 67-68

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ayanasyotarasyadav makaram yati bhaskarah

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > tatah kumbham cha menam cha rashe rashyantaram dvija

>

> >

>

> > (28)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > trishu eteshu atha bhukteshu tato vaishuvatim gatim

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > prayati savita kurvan ahoratram tatah samam

>

> >

>

> > (29)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > tato ratrih kshayam yati vardhate anudinam dinam

>

> >

>

> > (30)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > tatashcha mithunasyante param kashtham upagatah

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > rashim karkatam prapya kurute dakshinayanam

>

> >

>

> > (31)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > " In the beginning of Uttarayana, the sun enters

>

> >

>

> > Capricorn (Makara Rashi) there from going to Kumbha and them Mina. After

>

> >

>

> > having passed through these three signs, it just gains vishuvati

>

> >

>

> > (equinoctial) speed resulting in the day and night being equal on Mesha.

>

> >

>

> > After that, nights start decreasing and the days increasing

>

> >

>

> > correspondingly daily. Then when the sun is in the end of Mithuna Rashi,

>

> >

>

> > i.e. when it is just at the verge of entering Cancer, the day is the

>

> >

>

> > longest then and Dakshnayana starts on that date " .

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Sharad vsantyor Madhye vishuvam to vibhavyete

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Tula mesh gate bhanav samratri divam tu tat

>

> >

>

> > (67)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Karkatavasthite bhanav dakshiyanamuchete

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Uttarayanam api uktam makarasthe divakare

>

> >

>

> > (88)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > " In the midst of sharat ritu and vasanta ritu, vishuvas (equinoxes)

>

> >

>

> > take place with the entry of the sun into Tula (Libra) and Mesha (Aries)

>

> >

>

> > respectively and days and nights become equal on those two sankrantis.

>

> >

>

> > The entry of sun into Cancer (Karkata) is known as dakshinayana whereas

>

> >

>

> > its entry into Maraka is known as Uttarayana "

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Now Shrimadbhagavata, 5/21/4-6

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > yada mesh tulyor vartate tada ahoratrani samanani bhavanti yada

>

> >

>

> > vrishadishu panchasu cha rashishu charati tada ahani eva vardhante

>

> >

>

> > hrasati cha masi masi ekaika ghatika ratrishu (4) yada

>

> >

>

> > vrishchikadishu panchasu vartate tada ahoratrani viparyayani bhavanti

>

> >

>

> > (5) yavad dakshinayanam ahani vardhante yavad uttarayanam ratrayah

>

> >

>

> > (6)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > " When the sun enters Mesha and Tula days and nights are equal on

>

> >

>

> > those dates and the day starts getting longer as compared to nights when

>

> >

>

> > the sun passes through Vrisha etc. five rashis then days keep on

>

> >

>

> > increasing and the nights decreasing by one ghati every month. (After

>

> >

>

> > the day and night have become equal on Tula Sankranti) the nights keep

>

> >

>

> > on increasing during the sojourn of five rashis of Vrishchika etc. In

>

> >

>

> > short, during Uttarayana days keep on increasing till Dakshinayana and

>

> >

>

> > after that nights keep on increasing " .

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Vishnurhdarmotarapu rana 3/8/6-8 says

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > tula meshagate bhanav vishuvad dinam uchete,

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > dhanvato mithunantashcha ayane soasya dakshine,

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > " When the sun is in Mesha and Tula, they are the days of Vishuva

>

> >

>

> > i.e. days and nights are equal then. From the end of Dhanu (start of

>

> >

>

> > Makara) Uttarayana starts and from the end of Mithuna (start of Karkata)

>

> >

>

> > Dakshniyana starts "

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Any discussion on such topics is incomplete without appropriate

>

> >

>

> > references from Shivamahapurana: We just quote one 5/51/54 from this

>

> >

>

> > Purana below:

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > madhavasya site pakshe tritiya ya akshayabida

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > tasyam yo jagadambayah vratam kuryad atandritahÃ¢â‚¬Â¦

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > " The tritiya of Shukla paksha of Madhava (!) is know as akshayaya

>

> >

>

> > tritiya. One who observes a fast for Jagadamba on that date (gets

>

> >

>

> > immortal and thousand fold results) "

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > It is to be noted here that Akshaya tritiya is to be

>

> >

>

> > observed in (lunar) Madhava that means according to Shiva-Mahapurana

>

> >

>

> > also Vaishakha does not have any other existence besides Madhava! Thus

>

> >

>

> > the akshyaya tritiya that we observed in 2003 on May 4, was against all

>

> >

>

> > the shastras since solar Madhava had ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava

>

> >

>

> > on April 30! A similar situation is going to crop up in 2005. We will

>

> >

>

> > be asked to celebrate Akshaya tritiya on May 12, when solar Madhava will

>

> >

>

> > have ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava shukla paksha will start on

>

> >

>

> > April 8, 2005 which means it should be celebrated actually on April 11,

>

> >

>

> > 2005!

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Now obviously, if as per all the Vedas, Vedanga Jyotisha, Surya

>

> >

>

> > Sidhanta, Bhagavata, Vishnupurana, Vishnudharmotarapur ana and Shiva

>

> >

>

> > Mahapurana etc. etc. solar Shravana is another name of Dakshinayana viz

>

> >

>

> > sun in Karkata, it starts on June 21 in 2004. The first shukla pratipat

>

> >

>

> > after that is on July 18. Therefore, that is the day when the Lunar

>

> >

>

> > Shravana starts in 2004 as per all the Vedas and Puranas etc. As such,

>

> >

>

> > Shravana Purnima viz Raksha Bandhan and Amarnath Yatra etc. should be

>

> >

>

> > celebrated on July 31 in 2004. Why are our panchangakars asking us to

>

> >

>

> > celebrate it on August 29 instead? Only because they treat the entire

>

> >

>

> > Hindu society as ignorant fools who have no idea about the criteria of

>

> >

>

> > any festivals! Or is it that the panchangakars do not know anything

>

> >

>

> > themselves but are just copying from others like blind following blind?

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > End excerpt

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ******* *********

>

> >

>

> > *******

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

>

> >

>

> > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Dear friends,

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Jyotirved gives another bluff when he says as follows "

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > ///Ãƒâ€š Ãƒâ€š Surprisingly, all the Puranas and sidhantas (and not the

>

> >

>

> > Vedas or the VJ!) call that very Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti!Ãƒâ€š

>

> >

>

> > Ãƒâ€š ///

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > No purana had ever said thatÃƒâ€š the Uttarayana day is the Makar

>

> >

>

> > Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that the Uttarayana shifts fron

>

> >

>

> > nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in course of time. The Bhagavata

>

> >

>

> > Purana was recited before Parikshita in the 31st century BCE and at that

>

> >

>

> > time Makar Sankranti was in the Dakshinayana andÃƒâ€š any astronomer

>

> >

>

> > worth his salt qwill admit this.. I mentioned that in my earlier mail

>

> >

>

> > and Jyotirved ignores that to his convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on

>

> >

>

> > toleratingsuchÃƒâ€š bluffs after bluffs.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Secondly since JyotirvedÃƒâ€š does not believe in Sidereal Makar

>

> >

>

> > SankrantiÃƒâ€š he has no business to poke his long nose into the million

>

> >

>

> > dollar question. Let the believers discuss such points and not

>

> >

>

> > Jyotirved.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Regards,

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Sunil K. Bhattachatrjya

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, jyotirved jyotirved@ . wrote:

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > jyotirved jyotirved@ .

>

> >

>

> > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

>

> >

>

> > Norelli-Bachelet

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Cc: hinducalendar, " 'subash razdan' "

> subashrazdan@ ...,

>

> >

>

> > vedic_research_ institute,

>

> >

>

> > indiaarchaeology

>

> >

>

> > > Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:57 AM

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

December 8, 2009

--- On Tue, 12/8/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

Re: [VRI] [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet

Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 3:18 AM

Dear friends,

Avtar Krishen Kaul quotes dictoionary ususally why then he fails to quote

dictionary for Uttarayana now?

He hasÂ not proved that the puranas were not available in those days

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Krishen <jyotirved wrote:

Krishen <jyotirved

[VRI] [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet

Sunday, December 6, 2009, 6:54 AM

Â

Dear friends,

Jai Shri Ram!

<Uttarayana is the period of six months of the northern course of the Sun.

Uttarayana starts with the shortest day and continues till the longest day is

reached. Calling the shortest day as the Uttarayana day is not correct. It

should be called only as the starting day of the Uttarayana.>

It appears Shri Bhattacdharjya has stopped using any panchanga at all in spite

of being a jyotishi! Maybe he calculates horoscopes only through his parokshya

knowledge or maybe even just by having a look at the skies!

To put the records straight, however, this is what the Rashtriya Panchanga goes

on repeating year after year on the Winter Solstie Day, " Uttarayana Divas/Day " .

Similarly, on every Summer Solstice Day it goes on repeating, " Dakshinayana

Day/Divas " .

So Shri Bhattacharjya better brush up his knowledge of even the current

panchangas before entering into discussions on technical points.

<Any astronomer will tell you that in the 32nd century BCE ie.during the times

of the Mahabharata war, the Makar Sankranti did not fall in the Uttarayana

period at all.>

Shri Bhattacharjya is correct that the Uttarayana Day did not fall in Makar

Sanrkanti in about 3200 BCE, but that is just because there were no Mesha etc.

rashis in India then!

Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy

a wrote:

>

> Dear friends,

>

> So here is another untruth from Jyotirved:

>

> ////Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 1. As all the

> siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is

> the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti,Ã‚Â

> would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why?Ã‚Â Ã‚Â

///

>

> Firstly Jyotirved does not know the meaning of Uttarayana. Uttarayana is the

period of six months of the northern course of the Sun. Uttarayana starts with

the shortest day and continues till the longest day is reached. Calling the

shortest day as the Uttarayana day is not correct. It should be called only as

the starting day of the Uttarayana.

>

> No Purana had called the starting day of the Uttarayana as the Makar

Sankranti. Makar Sankranti is when there is Makar Sankramana, ie. when the Sun

enters the Makar Rashi. The Makar RashiÃ‚Â is sidereal or Nirayana and it is as

defined in the Vamana purana is from the the beginning of the second pada of the

Uttarashadha Nakshatra to the end of the second pada of the Dhanishtha

Nakshatra. Due to precession there was a time in the past when the Makar

Sankranti and the starting day of the Uttarayana coincided.. Now a days the

Makar Sankranti falls within the six months period of the Uttarayana. Any

astronomer will tell you that in the 32nd century BCE ie.during the times of the

Mahabharata war, the Makar Sankranti did not fall in the Uttarayana period at

all.

>

> I am sure this will go over the head of Jyotirved as he does not have the

capacity to understand this.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Wed, 12/2/09, jyotirved <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:

>

> jyotirved <jyotirved@. ..>

> [VRI] [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet

> vedic_research_ institute

> Cc: hinducalendar, ,

indiaarchaeology, " 'subash razdan' " <subashrazdan@ ...>

> Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 7:46 AM

>

December 9, 2009

Dear friends,

In the 32nd BCE the Uttarayana started in the Satabhisha nakshatra and any

sensible person knows that Satabhisa is in the Kumbha Rashi and not in the Simha

Rashi.Â So it shows that Shri Harimalla has zero knowledge of the Nakishatras

and the Rashis. He is trying to invent new astronomy and are you going to

tolerate his nonsense in these fora ?

Regards,

Sunil K. bhattacharjya

--- On Tue, 12/8/09, hari <harimalla wrote:

hari <harimalla

[VRI] [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet

Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 6:42 AM

Â

Dear Bhattacharyaji,

What I know is Barahmihir says the 'sun in dhanistha'position as the start of

uttarayan, was too old a concept then at his time and the occurrence of

uttarayan with the sun at makar sankranti was logical and could be proved by

checking practically. '

Start of Uttarayan with sun at makar sankranti (beginning of makar rashi)

occurred around 285 AD, as accepted nowadays. One month shift of uttarayan

occurs in around 2150 years. Thus around 2150-285 = 1865 BC becomes the year

when uttarayan occurred at the end of makar rashi, 30 degrees after the

beginning of makar rashi. Before that time, uttarayan occurred when the sun was

in Kumbha rashi and not in makar rashi. Dakhinsysn started when the sun was in

Karkat rashi in 285 AD, which means in 1865 BC, it started when the sun was in

the end of Karkat rashi. Before that dakhinayan started when the sun was in

Simha rashi.Thus at around 32 century BCE uttarayan started when the sun was in

Simha rashi. This is the simple mathematics I can explain.

The rest of the fantastic assumtions, explanations and calculations that

dakhinayan occurred when the sun entered makar rashi in 32nd century BCE, I

leave to you, shri Bhattacharyaji to explain. So please go ahead and explain

whatever you have assumed, by challenging yourself. I will surely read it. Do

not challenge me to do such silly task.

Hari Malla

, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy

a wrote:

>

> Dear all,

>

> How does Mr Harimalla explain that the Sun entered Makar rashi in the

dakshinayana in the 32nd century BCE?

> My ckallenge to Mr. hari to explain this first.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Mon, 12/7/09, hari <harimalla@. ..> wrote:

>

> hari <harimalla@. ..>

> [VRI] [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet

> " Sunil Bhattacharjya " <sunil_bhattacharjy a

> Monday, December 7, 2009, 7:01 AM

>

> Dear all,

> Sorry to say that both Bhattacharyaji and Robertsonji carry only half truths,