Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote: Dear Shri Kaulji, Best wishies for your sayan uttaryan sankranti! We propose to celebrate nirayan uttaryan sankranti on solar Poush 1st(sankranti) since the shastras prohibit celebration of sayan sankranti. Nirayan poush sankranti is Dec 16th. This will remain as such for about 15-1600 years. But as you say we have to name this also as Makar sankranti,the sayan way, although it is presently known as Dhanu sankranti. This is to support the opinions of sayanbadis like you and SB Dixit, although you like to call yourself neither sayan nor nirayan, by throwing away the rashis. The proposed lunar maagha snana started from Mrigasira purnima (the full moon of December) which fell this year on 2nd of December but will fall next year towards the end of December. Since December 21 is the actual shortest day,the proposed lunar shortest day maagha snana, namely Mrigasira purnima, will go both before and after this date, since this fullmoon fluctuates over the whole month of December, from Dec. 1 to Dec.31. Thus the traditional nirayan solar sankranti and lunar full moons will be the celebration date for uttarayan, which keeps on changing its abslute steller location from year to year. We prefer to stick to the age old tradition of not worshipping Brahmaji, which would be the case if we celebrated the sayan sankranti, as you are proposing. So my request for you too, to follow the age old vedic tradition and not go against it. If you read the dharma shastras you will note that the lunar months having the nirayan solar sankrantis contain the Purusha.Purusha is not considered with respect to the sayan sankrantis. Hope you understand the basis of our shastras. Thank you and regards, HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > Dear friends, > Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009! > Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique > Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two > Ayanaas i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and > Hemanta Sampat respectively. > > All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold > results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other > puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period. > Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks, > which some people call " Vedic astrology " , we have gone completely out of > touch with these universal geographic and religious phenomena. > > Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas, > including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata, > Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapurana etc. > > The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which > corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of > doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. > IST and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of > Uttarayana will be on December 22 right from the dawn. > > It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in UP > and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the > whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar > Magha apart from Shishira Ritu. > > There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas, > not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, > being imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those > works. > Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is the > largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her " religious > freedom " even to celebrate any imaginary sankranti! > > The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per > muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of > January 15, when " almighty " Lahiri Dharniumasa will end! > With regards, > A K Kaul > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote: Dear Goelji, Namskar! <'Thus for general use poush purnima and makar sankranti are the lunar and the solar dates for celebration based on Sidereal coordinates. In present era , makar sankranti falls when Sun on its uttarayan course. " > Thank you for the suggestion of the addition of 'sidereal coordintes' and also the present position of makar sankranti to be added in the statement I had made.In fact I wanted to discuss that same point in the next step. Sidereal coordinates are necessary to get the center of the lunar orbit which is known as the Purush.In Kala madhav we learn that sankranti is needed in a lunar month to get the Purush.That lunar month which does not have sankranti is the neuter month or 'napunsak' month and this is treated as malamas or adhimas.Thus your suggestion for the addition of the word 'sidereal' is very good. Comimg to the next point the present postion of makar sankranti, we have to give it a little more thought.Please recall my following remark in my previous mail: <Since poush purnima fluctates over one month due to one month adhimas,the actual uttarayan can be withn the zone of poush purnima for about 2150 years.Durig this whole period, makar sankranti which is at the middle of the purnima fluctuation zone can autehntically represent the utttaryan phenomenon. > You will note that on one side of sankranti purnima fluctuates only for 15 degrees.This means ayanamsa can be only 15 degrees.Thus the total effective years is only about 1075 years.So the year 285 AD (when uattarayan was in makar sankranti) plus 1075 years equals 1360 AD, which is the year makar sankranti and poush purnima was effective as uttarayan. So only upto about the end of the 14th century or the beginning of 15 th century, poush purnima and makar sankranti were effectively representing uttarayan.After that the tropical uttarayan entered the zone of mrigasira purnima leaving behind poush purnima. Then itself was the time that, the uttarayan tithi was to be shifted to Mrigasira purnima from poush purnima.But inadvertantly the celebrations continued with uttrayn as makar sankranti and poush purnima tithi. I feel happy to tell you that in the 17th century, in Nepal they did shift the uttrayan to mrigasira purnima but left the othe festivals remain where they were. <Madhu,Madhav ,sukra ,saci etc are seasonal solar months and starts from the day of occurrence of Equinox day> To my knowledge madhu(chaitra) does not start from the equinox but madhav (vaisakh) does since madhu and madhav (chaitra and vaisakh) makes vasant ritu or spring season.The VE is at the middle of vasanta ritu. <By intoducing one lunar month after 65 pakshas , this anomaly is adjusted in present Panchangs.> This is correct that the solar and the lunar dates are coordinated by adhimas in our system.In fact this is the reason why poush purnima fluctuates from 15 solar poush to 15 solar maagha for one month. <Even If be give them the name of our Lunar months.,the real situation will emerge like this for the year 2009. Tropical solar Pausa will commence on Dec 21 at 23.17 hrs, sidereal solar Pausa will commence on dec 16 at 1.52 hrs IST. and sidereal lunar Pausa will commence on Dec2 at 13.00 hrs in the year 2009. Sidereal makar sankranti will fall on Jan14 at 12.38 hrs in lunar month of Magha in year 2010. As there will one additional month of Lunar Vaishakh in 2010 , Makar sankranyi will fall in the month of lunar sidereal Paush in 2011.> As per the present system your above stements stand correct.I have no disagreement.But one athing we have to remember is that the coordination of the sidereal and the tropical coordinates has gone off the mark or disirable limtits. Our adhimas system limits that the lunar dates get their sasonal value within 15 days of the solar value.This is the onyl reason why we set the adimases, i.e. to give tropical value to our tithis. When this purpose has failed our system has already failed.What do you say.Let us concentrate on how our system of adhimas has failed because the festivals are not only one month away from their tropcial values but upto 39 days away, in our next mail. There is a lot of reading and viewing materials in the parvasudhar forum.Kindly be a member of that forum so that we can refer to more materials available. Thank you regards, Hari Malla Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@> wrote: > > Dear Malla ji, > In your mail ,kindly refer following sentence: > > " Thus for general use poush purnima and makar sankranti are the lunar > and the solar uttaryan dates for celebration. " > If we write it in following way , then it will be more near to reality: > 'Thus for general use poush purnima and makar sankranti are the lunar > and the solar dates for celebration based on Sidereal coordinates. In present era , makar sankranti falls when Sun on its uttarayan course. " > > Duration of sidereal year is 365.256 days and lunar year is 354.367days.This Is reason that Paush purnima slides back wards and forward w.r.t sidereal Makar Sankranti .By intoducing one lunar month after 65 pakshas , this anomaly is adjusted in present Panchangs. > > Tropical year is 365.242190 days which is shorter than sidereal year.This is the reason that > so called Tropical Makar sankranti and sidereal makar sankranti are separating at a rate of > about one day in 72 years or at a rate of 50 " .3 sec every year. > > Madhu,Madhav ,sukra ,saci etc are seasonal solar months and starts from the day of occurrence > of Equinox day.Even If be give them the name of our Lunar months.,the real situation will emerge like this for the year 2009. > Tropical solar Pausa will commence on Dec 21 at 23.17 hrs, sidereal solar Pausa will commence on dec 16 at 1.52 hrs IST. and sidereal lunar Pausa will commence on Dec2 at 13.00 hrs in the year 2009. > Sidereal makar sankranti will fall on Jan14 at 12.38 hrs in lunar month of Magha in year 2010. > As there will one additional month of Lunar Vaishakh in 2010 , Makar sankranyi will fall in the > month of lunar sidereal Paush in 2011. > Let not mix Tropical and sidereal co-ordinates and we should try to understand the intent of shastra. > No body can over ride actual occurrence of tropical and sidereal solar months .. > Sidereal lunar months are followed in India from time immemorial in accordance of the sanction > of shastras,This is the reason that they are linked with sidereal solar months. > Regards, > > > > > G.K.GOEL > Ph: 09350311433 > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR > NEW DELHI-110 076 > INDIA > > > > > ________________________________ > prashant <praspandey@> > Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest > Wed, 23 December, 2009 9:55:36 PM > Re: [ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Best wishes for uttarayan 2009! > > > < One felt the tail and said the elphant is like a rope.The other felt the trunk and said the elephant is like a snake etc. > > > Nothing matters for our Pandit Babaji Shri Gopal Goelji, one felt elephant's tail as tail, rope trunk etc etc.... > > Only one thing matters for him, is, his mobile (consultation- wala) should keep ringing continuously which he writes in his signature... . > > Pandit Shri Gopal Goel ji, Am I wrong ??? > > Regs, > Prashant Pandey > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, " hari " <harimalla@ ..> wrote: > > > > Dear Goelji, > > naamskar! Yes > > I have been waiting long to tell you this matter. I am happy you have asked this question.Please continue to enquie thoroughly, so we understand things better from the vedic viewpoint. I will let you know whatever I have learnt from the various Gurus. > > I guess you know about the six blind men who went to see the elphant.One felt the tail and said the elphant is like a rope.The other felt the trunk and said the elephant is like a snake etc. Each festival has three components.The main is the lunar tithi.Say Poush Purnima is the real uttaryan tithi.This you will learn from the dharma shastra like Dharma sindhu.Since this Poush purnima fluctuates 15\16 days on both sides of makar sankranti every third year due to adhimasa, it is taken as the solar mean of maagha snana.Thus for general use poush purnima and makar sankranti are the lunar and the solar uttaryan dates for celebration. But the actual uttarayan date is within the poush purnima fluctuation zone and gives the uttarayan value to Poush purnima. Since poush purnima fluctates over one month due to one month adhimas,the actual uttarayan can be withn the zone of poush ppurnima for about 2150 years.Durig this whole period, makar sankranti which is at > the middle of the ppurnima fluctuation zone can autehntically represent the utttaryan phenomenon. There is no probelm in this. Please confirm if I am clear or not. Of course we have to talk more but I want to make sure you have understood what I am trying to say. > > Regardes, > > Hari Mall > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > > > If You say, ' Sun becomes Uttarayan on the day Sidereal Makar > > > Sankranti , who will believe in such things. > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > G.K.GOEL > > > Ph: 09350311433 > > > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR > > > NEW DELHI-110 076 > > > INDIA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > prashant <praspandey@ > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com > > > Tue, 22 December, 2009 8:42:39 PM > > > Re: [ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Best wishes for uttarayan 2009! > > > > > > > > > First read VEDAS after that comment about the festivals. > > > > > > Festivals in VEDAS are also mentioned as based on seasons. > > > > > > There is difference between Tropical and Seasons. > > > > > > Regs, > > > Prashant Pandey > > > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, " hari " <harimalla@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Goelji, > > > > You should read some dharmashatras to understand many of the things about religious astrology. Uttarayan sankranti which is used in dharma shastras is nirayan since it is celebrated on nirayan date like makar sankranti.Do not pretend not to know things which is commonly practised by the majority of the Hindus.Is makar sankranti celebrated not on the nirayn date? Sayan celebration is basically not prescribed because it does not lead us to the Purush. Do you know the meaning of the Purush? The lunar months containing nirayan sankranti is said to contain the Purush.If there is no nirayan sankranti in a lunar month that lunar month is said to be napunsak(neuter) . This is the general rule of dharmsa shastras. > > > > Regards, > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > > There is no such term ' nirayan uttaryan sankranti'. > > > > > Every person is free to celebrate festivals according > > > > > to their belief and teaching of his 'Samprdaya'. > > > > > > > > > > Nirayan means without Ayan.As such Nirayan Samkranti > > > > > has absolutely no connection with Uttaryan or Dakshayan. > > > > > > > > > > As VE Point is receeding in zodiac with the mean rate of 50 " .3 sec. > > > > > per year .it receeds about 1 degree in 72 years.As such , nirayan > > > > > Sankrant(s) advance by one date on the Gregorian calendar(which > > > > > follows the tropical year of 365.2452 days instead of sidereal year > > > > > of 365.256 days duration) > > > > > REGARDS, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > G.K.GOEL > > > > > Ph: 09350311433 > > > > > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR > > > > > NEW DELHI-110 076 > > > > > INDIA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > hari <harimalla@> > > > > > indian_astrology_ group_daily_ digest@grou ps.com > > > > > Mon, 21 December, 2009 9:57:19 AM > > > > > [ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Best wishes for uttarayan 2009! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parvasudhar2065, " hari " <harimalla@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Kaulji, > > > > > Best wishies for your sayan uttaryan sankranti! > > > > > We propose to celebrate nirayan uttaryan sankranti on solar Poush 1st(sankranti) since the shastras prohibit celebration of sayan sankranti. Nirayan poush sankranti is Dec 16th. This will remain as such for about 15-1600 years. But as you say we have to name this also as Makar sankranti,the sayan way, although it is presently known as Dhanu sankranti. This is to support the opinions of sayanbadis like you and SB Dixit, although you like to call yourself neither sayan nor nirayan, by throwing away the rashis. > > > > > The proposed lunar maagha snana started from Mrigasira purnima (the full moon of December) which fell this year on 2nd of December but will fall next year towards the end of December. Since December 21 is the actual shortest day,the proposed lunar shortest day maagha snana, namely Mrigasira purnima, will go both before and after this date, since this fullmoon fluctuates over the whole month of December, from Dec. 1 to Dec.31. > > > > > Thus the traditional nirayan solar sankranti and lunar full moons will be the celebration date for uttarayan, which keeps on changing its abslute steller location from year to year. We prefer to stick to the age old tradition of not worshipping Brahmaji, which would be the case if we celebrated the sayan sankranti, as you are proposing. > > > > > So my request for you too, to follow the age old vedic tradition and not go against it. > > > > > If you read the dharma shastras you will note that the lunar months having the nirayan solar sankrantis contain the Purusha.Purusha is not considered with respect to the sayan sankrantis. Hope you understand the basis of our shastras. > > > > > Thank you and regards, > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009! > > > > > > Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique > > > > > > Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two > > > > > > Ayanaas i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and > > > > > > Hemanta Sampat respectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold > > > > > > results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other > > > > > > puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period. > > > > > > Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks, > > > > > > which some people call " Vedic astrology " , we have gone completely out of > > > > > > touch with these universal geographic and religious phenomena. > > > > > > > > > > > > Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas, > > > > > > including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata, > > > > > > Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapu rana etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which > > > > > > corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of > > > > > > doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. > > > > > > IST and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of > > > > > > Uttarayana will be on December 22 right from the dawn. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in UP > > > > > > and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the > > > > > > whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar > > > > > > Magha apart from Shishira Ritu. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas, > > > > > > not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, > > > > > > being imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those > > > > > > works. > > > > > > Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is the > > > > > > largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her " religious > > > > > > freedom " even to celebrate any imaginary sankranti! > > > > > > > > > > > > The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per > > > > > > muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of > > > > > > January 15, when " almighty " Lahiri Dharniumasa will end! > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in.. com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in.. com/ > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in./ > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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