Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Respected Sammod Acharyaji, Jai Shri Ram! This is in continuation of my earlier post emphasizing that it is impossible that the Vedic seers would have used synodic lunar months to the exclusion of solar months for their calendars. While going through the Rig-Veda a few days back, I came across the following mantra (3/8/8) Aaditya rudra vasavah suneetha dyava-kshyama prithivee antarikshyam Sajoshaso yajnyam avantu deva oordvam krinvantu advarasya ketum Acharya Sayana, while commenting on this mantra has referred to aditya as “dwadasha adityah†i.e. twelve suns. Then in mantra 3//9/9, we find treeni shata tree sahasrani-agnim trimshachcha deva nav chaasaparyan aukshyan-gritarastrina barhirasma aadidhotaram nyasdayanta Commentigt on this mantra, Acharya Sayana has said, “…..devasankhya cha brihadarnyeke abhihita, ‘mahimana evaitesham ete tryastrimshat-tvena deva iti. Katme tetraystrimshad ashtav vasava ekadasha rudra dwadasha aadityas ta ekatrimshad indraschaiva prajapatishchai trayastrimsshavâ€. Thus the Acharya has talked of the fifth mantra of ninth adyaya of third Brahmana of Brihad Arnyaka-upanishada, that refers to thirty-three devas, which include eight Vasus, eleven Rudras, twelve Adityas (making the devas thirty-one) and by including Indra and Prajapati the number of Devas becomes thirty-threeâ€. Reading these comments of Acharya Sayana, I recalled that I had discussed this mantra of the Brihadarnyaka Upanishada in my “Shri Krishna Universal Ephemeris & Panchang†for 1999 AD, And here is what I had written on page 86 in that ephemeris, “Brhad Arnyaka Upanishad 3/9/5 runs thus, ‘katama aditya iti dwadasha vai masah samvatsarashchaita aadtiya ete heedam sarvam aadadaana yanti te yad idam sarvam aadadaana yanti tasmad aditya iti’ (meaning) ‘Vidagda Shakalya asks---‘Who are the Adityas’? (Yajnyavalkya replies) ‘Twelve months themselves which are the limbs of a Samvatsara, a year, are Adtiyas. (How?) Because these (very) months through their constant cycles---movements---go on accepting the deeds of all the human beings as well as dispensing their results by way of their life span etc. and as they (these twelve months) ‘accept while moving’ that is why they are known as Adityas†On the same page of that very ephemeris I had said further, “(As per 3/6/9 of the Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada) it has been said, ‘O Gargi, under the command of this very indestructible Brahman, days, fortnights, months, Ritus and Samvatsaras remain what they areâ€. Thus this Upanishada also has clubbed the solar months with seasons and then with the year. Similarly, Acharya Shankara has said in his commentary on 4/15/4 of Chhandogya Upaishada “yan shad udanneti masan†, “The departed soul goes to the deity presiding over the six months when the sun goes Uttara†which should mean when the sun has northern declination---Uttarayana. Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada is a part of Vajasneya Brahmana of Kanva Shakha of the Yajurveda, and must, as such, predate the Vedaqnga Jyotisha of Acharya Lagadha. Chhandogya Upanishad is a part of Talavakar Samaveda. Since the Rig-Veda talks of adityas in plural, it means that the Rig-Veda is also referring to solar months, and that is why Acharya Sayana has interpreted those (twelve) adityas as twelve months. There cannot therefore be any doubt that the Vedas do talk of solar months and ayanas definitely and it was only to those very seasonal solar months that the lunar (synodic) months like Magha, Phalguna etc. were aligned/pegged. Regarding your statement that nobody in Kathmandu celebrates any Samkranti, that only goes to prove that even Nepal, the “only Hindu kingdom†of yesteryears, had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis. I will, however, write about that in a separate post. Jai Shri Ram A K Kaul HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved wrote: Respected Sammod Acharya, Jai Shri Ram and welcome to HinduCalendar forum. In fact, Hindus need scholars like you for clear cut guidelines about streamlining the Hindu Calendar. < Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month> You are absolutely right that in the Vedanga Jyotisha and later Paitamaha and Vasishtha Sidhanta etc., we do not have any clear indication about the methodology of finding the starting dates of solar months. That is also clear from Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis being conspicuous by their absence from all these astronomical works. But the four cardinal points have been given due importance in the Vedas and the VJ directly or indirectly. One of the main handicaps that the Indian astronomers were facing as early as 1400 BCE or even in early centuries of Common Era, was the mathematical computation for calculating exact solar ingresses from Tapas to Tapasya and so on. Gnomon was the main instrument used for such purposes, but it is next to impossible to calculate the exact timings of even Uttarayana or Dakshinayana etc. phenomena leave alone the other months like Tapasya and Madhu etc., without taking recourse to observations over several centuries. Modern astronomy is also undergoing changes by the day even if it is by milliseconds in computing the exact timings of Winter Solstice etc. A fundamental question that arises otherwise is that if the four cardinal points were not of any importance in the Vedic period, why and how did they get all the attention in the Puranas and Tantra Shashtra etc.? This will be evident from BVB6, 1999b and rashi5 and npj1 etc. documents in the files section. These four cardinal points do not have much of a religious significance in other religions. Thus though Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were imported into India from other countries, and they were clubbed with Vernal and Autumnal Equinox etc., but the solar ingress into (so called Sayana rashis) of Mesha, Karkata, Tula and Makara etc. rashis gained prominence and importance only because of their association with the four cardinal points. If Makar Sankranti was being celebrated with fervour over the last several centuries I India, it is not because that Sankranti has any intrinsic value but it is only because of its association with Udagayana, the Winter Solstice, as it was the start of the new solar year as per the Vedanga Jyotisha. We also find that several commentators of the Vedanga Jyotisha have linked Tapas and Tapasya etc. months to seasonal solar months and Magha, Phalgua etc. to lunar months. Similarly, regarding the thirteen lunar months, an adhika and kshyya masa can take place only if it is compared to some standard year that has only twelve months. To take the duration of the solar year as 366 days and then calculate adhika or kshyaya lunar masa just on the basis of that very duration is a far fetched point. We find the mention of thirteenth month in the Rig Veda itself, and unless and until there had been a concept of twelve solar months, it is impossible to presume that the thirteenth month would have been an adhika masa! <when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined.> It was not an easy job to determine even a solar year in 1400 BCE! Regarding a lunar year, it is a misnomer! A solar year means the revolution of the earth from one Solstice to another as during the time of the VJ or from one Equinox to another, as at present. On the other hand, lunar revolution from one VE to another is known as a Tropical month and from one “Fixed Star†to another is known as a sidereal month, whereas the period between one New Moon and another is known as a Synodic month! There is never a lunar year, as such! Besides, we have to bear in mind that it is a “masa†(month) that is adhika or kshyaya, and it can be so only against some other standard month and not some standard year! As such, we have to go by the spirit (and not just the  letter) of the Vedas and the Veadanga Jyotisha as far as calculation of adhika or kshyaya masa etc. is concerned. And this can be done only by treating Tapas, Tapasya etc. months as solar and Magha, Phalgua etc. months as lunar. With regards, A K Kaul HinduCalendar , sammod acharya <samodacharya wrote: Re: [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 Dear Kaullji Thanks a lot for remembering.Best wishes of vatrsararambha to you and all. Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined. All these things are explained in the kaundinnyayana vyakhyana of VJ published by Chaukhamba Vidya Bhavana of Varanasi (2005); the book is available in Delhi at Chaukhmba Sanskrit Pratisthana, 38 U A Bangalo road, Jabahara Nagara also. All things are explained in Hindi also in this book. Please read the book thoroughly every thing will be clear.Our new hindi book on vedanga jyotish Bharatavarsheeya jyotishke jwalant prashna aur Vedanga Jyotish (2008) published by same publisher deals in detail with all these issues. regards , sammod --- On Sun, 12/20/09, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote: jyotirved <jyotirved [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 hinducalendar , , usbrahmins , vedic_research_institute , akandabaratam , asthikasamaj , mukti_marg , indiaarchaeology Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:11 AM Dear friends, Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009! Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two Ayanaas i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and Hemanta Sampat respectively. All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period. Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks, which some people call “Vedic astrologyâ€ÂÂ, we have gone completely out of touch with these universal geographic and religious phenomena. Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas, including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata, Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapu rana etc. The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. IST and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of Uttarayana will be on December 22 right from the dawn. It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in UP and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar Magha apart from Shishira Ritu. There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas, not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, being imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those works. Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is the largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her “religious freedom†even to celebrate any imaginary sankranti! The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of January 15, when “almighty†Lahiri Dharniumasa will end! With regards, A K Kaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Respected Shri Kaulji, After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail). Am i allowed to write on your mails?? I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail. Regs, Prashant Pandey , " jyotirved " <jyotirved wrote: > > Respected Sammod Acharyaji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > This is in continuation of my earlier post emphasizing that it is impossible that the Vedic seers would have used synodic lunar months to the exclusion of solar months for their calendars. > > While going through the Rig-Veda a few days back, I came across the following mantra (3/8/8) > > Aaditya rudra vasavah suneetha dyava-kshyama prithivee antarikshyam > > Sajoshaso yajnyam avantu deva oordvam krinvantu advarasya ketum > > > > Acharya Sayana, while commenting on this mantra has referred to aditya as “dwadasha adityah†i.e. twelve suns. > > Then in mantra 3//9/9, we find > > treeni shata tree sahasrani-agnim trimshachcha deva nav chaasaparyan > > aukshyan-gritarastrina barhirasma aadidhotaram nyasdayanta > > Commentigt on this mantra, Acharya Sayana has said, “…..devasankhya cha brihadarnyeke abhihita, ‘mahimana evaitesham ete tryastrimshat-tvena deva iti. Katme tetraystrimshad ashtav vasava ekadasha rudra dwadasha aadityas ta ekatrimshad indraschaiva prajapatishchai trayastrimsshavâ€. Thus the Acharya has talked of the fifth mantra of ninth adyaya of third Brahmana of Brihad Arnyaka-upanishada, that refers to thirty-three devas, which include eight Vasus, eleven Rudras, twelve Adityas (making the devas thirty-one) and by including Indra and Prajapati the number of Devas becomes thirty-threeâ€. > > Reading these comments of Acharya Sayana, I recalled that I had discussed this mantra of the Brihadarnyaka Upanishada in my “Shri Krishna Universal Ephemeris & Panchang†for 1999 AD, And here is what I had written on page 86 in that ephemeris, “Brhad Arnyaka Upanishad 3/9/5 runs thus, ‘katama aditya iti dwadasha vai masah samvatsarashchaita aadtiya ete heedam sarvam aadadaana yanti te yad idam sarvam aadadaana yanti tasmad aditya iti’ (meaning) ‘Vidagda Shakalya asks---‘Who are the Adityas’? (Yajnyavalkya replies) ‘Twelve months themselves which are the limbs of a Samvatsara, a year, are Adtiyas. (How?) Because these (very) months through their constant cycles---movements---go on accepting the deeds of all the human beings as well as dispensing their results by way of their life span etc. and as they (these twelve months) ‘accept while moving’ that is why they are known as Adityas†> > On the same page of that very ephemeris I had said further, “(As per 3/6/9 of the Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada) it has been said, ‘O Gargi, under the command of this very indestructible Brahman, days, fortnights, months, Ritus and Samvatsaras remain what they areâ€. > > Thus this Upanishada also has clubbed the solar months with seasons and then with the year. > > Similarly, Acharya Shankara has said in his commentary on 4/15/4 of Chhandogya Upaishada “yan shad udanneti masan†, “The departed soul goes to the deity presiding over the six months when the sun goes Uttara†which should mean when the sun has northern declination---Uttarayana. > > Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada is a part of Vajasneya Brahmana of Kanva Shakha of the Yajurveda, and must, as such, predate the Vedaqnga Jyotisha of Acharya Lagadha. Chhandogya Upanishad is a part of Talavakar Samaveda. > > Since the Rig-Veda talks of adityas in plural, it means that the Rig-Veda is also referring to solar months, and that is why Acharya Sayana has interpreted those (twelve) adityas as twelve months. > > There cannot therefore be any doubt that the Vedas do talk of solar months and ayanas definitely and it was only to those very seasonal solar months that the lunar (synodic) months like Magha, Phalguna etc. were aligned/pegged. > > Regarding your statement that nobody in Kathmandu celebrates any Samkranti, that only goes to prove that even Nepal, the “only Hindu kingdom†of yesteryears, had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis. I will, however, write about that in a separate post. > > Jai Shri Ram > > A K Kaul > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharya, > > Jai Shri Ram and welcome to HinduCalendar forum. > > In fact, Hindus need scholars like you for clear cut guidelines about streamlining the Hindu Calendar. > > < Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month> > > You are absolutely right that in the Vedanga Jyotisha and later Paitamaha and Vasishtha Sidhanta etc., we do not have any clear indication about the methodology of finding the starting dates of solar months. That is also clear from Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis being conspicuous by their absence from all these astronomical works. > > But the four cardinal points have been given due importance in the Vedas and the VJ directly or indirectly. One of the main handicaps that the Indian astronomers were facing as early as 1400 BCE or even in early centuries of Common Era, was the mathematical computation for calculating exact solar ingresses from Tapas to Tapasya and so on. Gnomon was the main instrument used for such purposes, but it is next to impossible to calculate the exact timings of even Uttarayana or Dakshinayana etc. phenomena leave alone the other months like Tapasya and Madhu etc., without taking recourse to observations over several centuries. Modern astronomy is also undergoing changes by the day even if it is by milliseconds in computing the exact timings of Winter Solstice etc. > > A fundamental question that arises otherwise is that if the four cardinal points were not of any importance in the Vedic period, why and how did they get all the attention in the Puranas and Tantra Shashtra etc.? This will be evident from BVB6, 1999b and rashi5 and npj1 etc. documents in the files section. > > These four cardinal points do not have much of a religious significance in other religions. Thus though Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were imported into India from other countries, and they were clubbed with Vernal and Autumnal Equinox etc., but the solar ingress into (so called Sayana rashis) of Mesha, Karkata, Tula and Makara etc. rashis gained prominence and importance only because of their association with the four cardinal points. If Makar Sankranti was being celebrated with fervour over the last several centuries I India, it is not because that Sankranti has any intrinsic value but it is only because of its association with Udagayana, the Winter Solstice, as it was the start of the new solar year as per the Vedanga Jyotisha. > > We also find that several commentators of the Vedanga Jyotisha have linked Tapas and Tapasya etc. months to seasonal solar months and Magha, Phalgua etc. to lunar months. > > Similarly, regarding the thirteen lunar months, an adhika and kshyya masa can take place only if it is compared to some standard year that has only twelve months. To take the duration of the solar year as 366 days and then calculate adhika or kshyaya lunar masa just on the basis of that very duration is a far fetched point. > > We find the mention of thirteenth month in the Rig Veda itself, and unless and until there had been a concept of twelve solar months, it is impossible to presume that the thirteenth month would have been an adhika masa! > > <when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined.> > > It was not an easy job to determine even a solar year in 1400 BCE! Regarding a lunar year, it is a misnomer! A solar year means the revolution of the earth from one Solstice to another as during the time of the VJ or from one Equinox to another, as at present. On the other hand, lunar revolution from one VE to another is known as a Tropical month and from one  " Fixed Star†to another is known as a sidereal month, whereas the period between one New Moon and another is known as a Synodic month! There is never a lunar year, as such! Besides, we have to bear in mind that it is a  " masa†(month) that is adhika or kshyaya, and it can be so only against some other standard month and not some standard year! > > As such, we have to go by the spirit (and not just the  letter) of the Vedas and the Veadanga Jyotisha as far as calculation of adhika or kshyaya masa etc. is concerned. And this can be done only by treating Tapas, Tapasya etc. months as solar and Magha, Phalgua etc. months as lunar. > > With regards, > > A K Kaul > > HinduCalendar , sammod acharya <samodacharya@> wrote: > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > > > > Dear Kaullji > > > > > > Thanks a lot for remembering.Best wishes of vatrsararambha to you and all. > > Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month > > when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined. All these things are explained in the kaundinnyayana vyakhyana of VJ published by Chaukhamba Vidya Bhavana of Varanasi (2005); the book is available in Delhi at Chaukhmba Sanskrit Pratisthana, 38 U A Bangalo road, Jabahara Nagara also. All things are explained in Hindi also in this book. Please read the book thoroughly every thing will be clear.Our new hindi book on vedanga jyotish Bharatavarsheeya jyotishke jwalant prashna aur Vedanga Jyotish (2008) published by same publisher deals in detail with all these issues. > > > > regards , > > > > sammod > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote: > > > jyotirved <jyotirved > [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > hinducalendar , , usbrahmins , vedic_research_institute , akandabaratam , asthikasamaj , mukti_marg , indiaarchaeology > Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:11 AM > > > > Dear friends, > > Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009! > > Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two Ayanaas i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and Hemanta Sampat respectively. > > All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period. > > Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks, which some people call “Vedic astrologyâ€ÂÂ, we have gone completely out of touch with these universal geographic and religious phenomena. > > Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas, including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata, Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapu rana etc. > > The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. IST and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of Uttarayana will be on December 22 right from the dawn. > > It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in UP and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar Magha apart from Shishira Ritu. > > There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas, not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, being imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those works. > > Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is the largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her “religious freedom†even to celebrate any imaginary sankranti! > > The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of January 15, when “almighty†Lahiri Dharniumasa will end! > > With regards, > > A K Kaul > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote: Dear Shri Kaulji, namaskar! In connection with the 12 suns or Adityas, may I suggest that that they are not exactly the sun itself, but induced by the sun as the center of the lunar orbit. Perhaps you think that the moon orbits around the earth center. This is not exactly true. The moon actually goes around the bary cneter,which is directly linked with the sun.The 12 barycenters formed by the 12 lunar orbits or months are also known as 12 suns for convenience. These are also known as 12 Adityas.The names of the 12 suns are Arun, surya, bhanu etc starting from the month of lunar maagha as given in Kalamadhav book under the heading of Adhimas.Please refer there. thanks, Hari Malla parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , " prashant " <praspandey@> wrote: > > Respected Shri Kaulji, > > After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail). > > Am i allowed to write on your mails?? > > I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail. > > Regs, > Prashant Pandey > > , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > Respected Sammod Acharyaji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > This is in continuation of my earlier post emphasizing that it is impossible that the Vedic seers would have used synodic lunar months to the exclusion of solar months for their calendars. > > While going through the Rig-Veda a few days back, I came across the following mantra (3/8/8) > > Aaditya rudra vasavah suneetha dyava-kshyama prithivee antarikshyam > > Sajoshaso yajnyam avantu deva oordvam krinvantu advarasya ketum > > > > Acharya Sayana, while commenting on this mantra has referred to aditya as “dwadasha adityah†i.e. twelve suns. > > Then in mantra 3//9/9, we find > > treeni shata tree sahasrani-agnim trimshachcha deva nav chaasaparyan > > aukshyan-gritarastrina barhirasma aadidhotaram nyasdayanta > > Commentigt on this mantra, Acharya Sayana has said, “…..devasankhya cha brihadarnyeke abhihita, ‘mahimana evaitesham ete tryastrimshat-tvena deva iti. Katme tetraystrimshad ashtav vasava ekadasha rudra dwadasha aadityas ta ekatrimshad indraschaiva prajapatishchai trayastrimsshavâ€. Thus the Acharya has talked of the fifth mantra of ninth adyaya of third Brahmana of Brihad Arnyaka-upanishada, that refers to thirty-three devas, which include eight Vasus, eleven Rudras, twelve Adityas (making the devas thirty-one) and by including Indra and Prajapati the number of Devas becomes thirty-threeâ€. > > Reading these comments of Acharya Sayana, I recalled that I had discussed this mantra of the Brihadarnyaka Upanishada in my “Shri Krishna Universal Ephemeris & Panchang†for 1999 AD, And here is what I had written on page 86 in that ephemeris, “Brhad Arnyaka Upanishad 3/9/5 runs thus, ‘katama aditya iti dwadasha vai masah samvatsarashchaita aadtiya ete heedam sarvam aadadaana yanti te yad idam sarvam aadadaana yanti tasmad aditya iti’ (meaning) ‘Vidagda Shakalya asks---‘Who are the Adityas’? (Yajnyavalkya replies) ‘Twelve months themselves which are the limbs of a Samvatsara, a year, are Adtiyas. (How?) Because these (very) months through their constant cycles---movements---go on accepting the deeds of all the human beings as well as dispensing their results by way of their life span etc. and as they (these twelve months) ‘accept while moving’ that is why they are known as Adityas†> > On the same page of that very ephemeris I had said further, “(As per 3/6/9 of the Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada) it has been said, ‘O Gargi, under the command of this very indestructible Brahman, days, fortnights, months, Ritus and Samvatsaras remain what they areâ€. > > Thus this Upanishada also has clubbed the solar months with seasons and then with the year. > > Similarly, Acharya Shankara has said in his commentary on 4/15/4 of Chhandogya Upaishada “yan shad udanneti masan†, “The departed soul goes to the deity presiding over the six months when the sun goes Uttara†which should mean when the sun has northern declination---Uttarayana. > > Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada is a part of Vajasneya Brahmana of Kanva Shakha of the Yajurveda, and must, as such, predate the Vedaqnga Jyotisha of Acharya Lagadha. Chhandogya Upanishad is a part of Talavakar Samaveda. > > Since the Rig-Veda talks of adityas in plural, it means that the Rig-Veda is also referring to solar months, and that is why Acharya Sayana has interpreted those (twelve) adityas as twelve months. > > There cannot therefore be any doubt that the Vedas do talk of solar months and ayanas definitely and it was only to those very seasonal solar months that the lunar (synodic) months like Magha, Phalguna etc. were aligned/pegged. > > Regarding your statement that nobody in Kathmandu celebrates any Samkranti, that only goes to prove that even Nepal, the “only Hindu kingdom†of yesteryears, had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis. I will, however, write about that in a separate post. > > Jai Shri Ram > > A K Kaul > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharya, > > Jai Shri Ram and welcome to HinduCalendar forum. > > In fact, Hindus need scholars like you for clear cut guidelines about streamlining the Hindu Calendar. > > < Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month> > > You are absolutely right that in the Vedanga Jyotisha and later Paitamaha and Vasishtha Sidhanta etc., we do not have any clear indication about the methodology of finding the starting dates of solar months. That is also clear from Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis being conspicuous by their absence from all these astronomical works. > > But the four cardinal points have been given due importance in the Vedas and the VJ directly or indirectly. One of the main handicaps that the Indian astronomers were facing as early as 1400 BCE or even in early centuries of Common Era, was the mathematical computation for calculating exact solar ingresses from Tapas to Tapasya and so on. Gnomon was the main instrument used for such purposes, but it is next to impossible to calculate the exact timings of even Uttarayana or Dakshinayana etc. phenomena leave alone the other months like Tapasya and Madhu etc., without taking recourse to observations over several centuries. Modern astronomy is also undergoing changes by the day even if it is by milliseconds in computing the exact timings of Winter Solstice etc. > > A fundamental question that arises otherwise is that if the four cardinal points were not of any importance in the Vedic period, why and how did they get all the attention in the Puranas and Tantra Shashtra etc.? This will be evident from BVB6, 1999b and rashi5 and npj1 etc. documents in the files section. > > These four cardinal points do not have much of a religious significance in other religions. Thus though Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were imported into India from other countries, and they were clubbed with Vernal and Autumnal Equinox etc., but the solar ingress into (so called Sayana rashis) of Mesha, Karkata, Tula and Makara etc. rashis gained prominence and importance only because of their association with the four cardinal points. If Makar Sankranti was being celebrated with fervour over the last several centuries I India, it is not because that Sankranti has any intrinsic value but it is only because of its association with Udagayana, the Winter Solstice, as it was the start of the new solar year as per the Vedanga Jyotisha. > > We also find that several commentators of the Vedanga Jyotisha have linked Tapas and Tapasya etc. months to seasonal solar months and Magha, Phalgua etc. to lunar months. > > Similarly, regarding the thirteen lunar months, an adhika and kshyya masa can take place only if it is compared to some standard year that has only twelve months. To take the duration of the solar year as 366 days and then calculate adhika or kshyaya lunar masa just on the basis of that very duration is a far fetched point. > > We find the mention of thirteenth month in the Rig Veda itself, and unless and until there had been a concept of twelve solar months, it is impossible to presume that the thirteenth month would have been an adhika masa! > > <when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined.> > > It was not an easy job to determine even a solar year in 1400 BCE! Regarding a lunar year, it is a misnomer! A solar year means the revolution of the earth from one Solstice to another as during the time of the VJ or from one Equinox to another, as at present. On the other hand, lunar revolution from one VE to another is known as a Tropical month and from one  " Fixed Star†to another is known as a sidereal month, whereas the period between one New Moon and another is known as a Synodic month! There is never a lunar year, as such! Besides, we have to bear in mind that it is a  " masa†(month) that is adhika or kshyaya, and it can be so only against some other standard month and not some standard year! > > As such, we have to go by the spirit (and not just the  letter) of the Vedas and the Veadanga Jyotisha as far as calculation of adhika or kshyaya masa etc. is concerned. And this can be done only by treating Tapas, Tapasya etc. months as solar and Magha, Phalgua etc. months as lunar. > > With regards, > > A K Kaul > > HinduCalendar , sammod acharya <samodacharya@> wrote: > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > > > > Dear Kaullji > > > > > > Thanks a lot for remembering.Best wishes of vatrsararambha to you and all. > > Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month > > when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined. All these things are explained in the kaundinnyayana vyakhyana of VJ published by Chaukhamba Vidya Bhavana of Varanasi (2005); the book is available in Delhi at Chaukhmba Sanskrit Pratisthana, 38 U A Bangalo road, Jabahara Nagara also. All things are explained in Hindi also in this book. Please read the book thoroughly every thing will be clear.Our new hindi book on vedanga jyotish Bharatavarsheeya jyotishke jwalant prashna aur Vedanga Jyotish (2008) published by same publisher deals in detail with all these issues. > > > > regards , > > > > sammod > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > jyotirved <jyotirved@> > [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > hinducalendar , , usbrahmins , vedic_research_institute , akandabaratam , asthikasamaj , mukti_marg , indiaarchaeology > Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:11 AM > > > > Dear friends, > > Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009! > > Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two Ayanaas i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and Hemanta Sampat respectively. > > All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period. > > Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks, which some people call “Vedic astrologyâ€ÂÂ, we have gone completely out of touch with these universal geographic and religious phenomena. > > Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas, including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata, Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapu rana etc. > > The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. IST and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of Uttarayana will be on December 22 right from the dawn. > > It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in UP and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar Magha apart from Shishira Ritu. > > There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas, not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, being imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those works. > > Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is the largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her “religious freedom†even to celebrate any imaginary sankranti! > > The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of January 15, when “almighty†Lahiri Dharniumasa will end! > > With regards, > > A K Kaul > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Shri Prashant Pandeyji, Jai Shri Ram! <After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail).> What you call " fresh air " is actually a rehash of my 1999 ephemeris---an " event " that took place more than ten year back! In fact, I have been repeating the same " clitches " again and again and boring everbody unnecessarily! Anyway, I am glad that you find something fresh in it. < Am i allowed to write on your mails??> Anybody can write on any mail, and it is up to the moderator to allow it to appear on the forum or not! < I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail.> Why should I get angry? Whenever any contrarian views are presented, I evaluate them thoroughly and if need be, change my views! After all, what I am writing today is based on my readings and intereactions till date! Who knows, I may repudiate my own stand after a few days! E.g., till a few years back, I was myself under the impression that the real Vamadevas had nothing else to do except to erect and delineate the horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Hary (even if they did not exist by those names then---witness the non-existent Brighu and Ravana and Aruna Samhitas!)! But when I found that it was impossible for them to calculate even the exact timing of Udagayana, leave along shashtyamsha!---because of the limitations at that point of time, and also when I found that instead of fatalism and latching on to Kala Sarpa and other yogas, they advocated at every step " karmanyeva adhikaraste, ma phaleshu kadachanai " , I had to change my views! So who knows, after reading your post, may be I will change my views further and advocate that we must stop celebrating Lahiri Samkrantis and start celebrating Ramana Sankrantis or even Muladhara samkrantis and so on! Jai Shri Ram! A K Kaul PS I have a request! I feel very odd/uneasy when someone addresses me as " respected " . Believe me, I am just an ordinary human being with the same mionor or major vices that everybody else has! Pl. as such, just " Kaul ji " or even " akk " will do. AKK , " prashant " <praspandey wrote: > > Respected Shri Kaulji, > > After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail). > > Am i allowed to write on your mails?? > > I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail. > > Regs, > Prashant Pandey > > , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Respected Sammod Acharyaji, > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > This is in continuation of my earlier post emphasizing that it is impossible that the Vedic seers would have used synodic lunar months to the exclusion of solar months for their calendars. > > > > While going through the Rig-Veda a few days back, I came across the following mantra (3/8/8) > > > > Aaditya rudra vasavah suneetha dyava-kshyama prithivee antarikshyam > > > > Sajoshaso yajnyam avantu deva oordvam krinvantu advarasya ketum > > > > > > > > Acharya Sayana, while commenting on this mantra has referred to aditya as “dwadasha adityah†i.e. twelve suns. > > > > Then in mantra 3//9/9, we find > > > > treeni shata tree sahasrani-agnim trimshachcha deva nav chaasaparyan > > > > aukshyan-gritarastrina barhirasma aadidhotaram nyasdayanta > > > > Commentigt on this mantra, Acharya Sayana has said, “…..devasankhya cha brihadarnyeke abhihita, ‘mahimana evaitesham ete tryastrimshat-tvena deva iti. Katme tetraystrimshad ashtav vasava ekadasha rudra dwadasha aadityas ta ekatrimshad indraschaiva prajapatishchai trayastrimsshavâ€. Thus the Acharya has talked of the fifth mantra of ninth adyaya of third Brahmana of Brihad Arnyaka-upanishada, that refers to thirty-three devas, which include eight Vasus, eleven Rudras, twelve Adityas (making the devas thirty-one) and by including Indra and Prajapati the number of Devas becomes thirty-threeâ€. > > > > Reading these comments of Acharya Sayana, I recalled that I had discussed this mantra of the Brihadarnyaka Upanishada in my “Shri Krishna Universal Ephemeris & Panchang†for 1999 AD, And here is what I had written on page 86 in that ephemeris, “Brhad Arnyaka Upanishad 3/9/5 runs thus, ‘katama aditya iti dwadasha vai masah samvatsarashchaita aadtiya ete heedam sarvam aadadaana yanti te yad idam sarvam aadadaana yanti tasmad aditya iti’ (meaning) ‘Vidagda Shakalya asks---‘Who are the Adityas’? (Yajnyavalkya replies) ‘Twelve months themselves which are the limbs of a Samvatsara, a year, are Adtiyas. (How?) Because these (very) months through their constant cycles---movements---go on accepting the deeds of all the human beings as well as dispensing their results by way of their life span etc. and as they (these twelve months) ‘accept while moving’ that is why they are known as Adityas†> > > > On the same page of that very ephemeris I had said further, “(As per 3/6/9 of the Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada) it has been said, ‘O Gargi, under the command of this very indestructible Brahman, days, fortnights, months, Ritus and Samvatsaras remain what they areâ€. > > > > Thus this Upanishada also has clubbed the solar months with seasons and then with the year. > > > > Similarly, Acharya Shankara has said in his commentary on 4/15/4 of Chhandogya Upaishada “yan shad udanneti masan†, “The departed soul goes to the deity presiding over the six months when the sun goes Uttara†which should mean when the sun has northern declination---Uttarayana. > > > > Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada is a part of Vajasneya Brahmana of Kanva Shakha of the Yajurveda, and must, as such, predate the Vedaqnga Jyotisha of Acharya Lagadha. Chhandogya Upanishad is a part of Talavakar Samaveda. > > > > Since the Rig-Veda talks of adityas in plural, it means that the Rig-Veda is also referring to solar months, and that is why Acharya Sayana has interpreted those (twelve) adityas as twelve months. > > > > There cannot therefore be any doubt that the Vedas do talk of solar months and ayanas definitely and it was only to those very seasonal solar months that the lunar (synodic) months like Magha, Phalguna etc. were aligned/pegged. > > > > Regarding your statement that nobody in Kathmandu celebrates any Samkranti, that only goes to prove that even Nepal, the “only Hindu kingdom†of yesteryears, had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis. I will, however, write about that in a separate post. > > > > Jai Shri Ram > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharya, > > > > Jai Shri Ram and welcome to HinduCalendar forum. > > > > In fact, Hindus need scholars like you for clear cut guidelines about streamlining the Hindu Calendar. > > > > < Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month> > > > > You are absolutely right that in the Vedanga Jyotisha and later Paitamaha and Vasishtha Sidhanta etc., we do not have any clear indication about the methodology of finding the starting dates of solar months. That is also clear from Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis being conspicuous by their absence from all these astronomical works. > > > > But the four cardinal points have been given due importance in the Vedas and the VJ directly or indirectly. One of the main handicaps that the Indian astronomers were facing as early as 1400 BCE or even in early centuries of Common Era, was the mathematical computation for calculating exact solar ingresses from Tapas to Tapasya and so on. Gnomon was the main instrument used for such purposes, but it is next to impossible to calculate the exact timings of even Uttarayana or Dakshinayana etc. phenomena leave alone the other months like Tapasya and Madhu etc., without taking recourse to observations over several centuries. Modern astronomy is also undergoing changes by the day even if it is by milliseconds in computing the exact timings of Winter Solstice etc. > > > > A fundamental question that arises otherwise is that if the four cardinal points were not of any importance in the Vedic period, why and how did they get all the attention in the Puranas and Tantra Shashtra etc.? This will be evident from BVB6, 1999b and rashi5 and npj1 etc. documents in the files section. > > > > These four cardinal points do not have much of a religious significance in other religions. Thus though Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were imported into India from other countries, and they were clubbed with Vernal and Autumnal Equinox etc., but the solar ingress into (so called Sayana rashis) of Mesha, Karkata, Tula and Makara etc. rashis gained prominence and importance only because of their association with the four cardinal points. If Makar Sankranti was being celebrated with fervour over the last several centuries I India, it is not because that Sankranti has any intrinsic value but it is only because of its association with Udagayana, the Winter Solstice, as it was the start of the new solar year as per the Vedanga Jyotisha. > > > > We also find that several commentators of the Vedanga Jyotisha have linked Tapas and Tapasya etc. months to seasonal solar months and Magha, Phalgua etc. to lunar months. > > > > Similarly, regarding the thirteen lunar months, an adhika and kshyya masa can take place only if it is compared to some standard year that has only twelve months. To take the duration of the solar year as 366 days and then calculate adhika or kshyaya lunar masa just on the basis of that very duration is a far fetched point. > > > > We find the mention of thirteenth month in the Rig Veda itself, and unless and until there had been a concept of twelve solar months, it is impossible to presume that the thirteenth month would have been an adhika masa! > > > > <when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined.> > > > > It was not an easy job to determine even a solar year in 1400 BCE! Regarding a lunar year, it is a misnomer! A solar year means the revolution of the earth from one Solstice to another as during the time of the VJ or from one Equinox to another, as at present. On the other hand, lunar revolution from one VE to another is known as a Tropical month and from one  " Fixed Star†to another is known as a sidereal month, whereas the period between one New Moon and another is known as a Synodic month! There is never a lunar year, as such! Besides, we have to bear in mind that it is a  " masa†(month) that is adhika or kshyaya, and it can be so only against some other standard month and not some standard year! > > > > As such, we have to go by the spirit (and not just the  letter) of the Vedas and the Veadanga Jyotisha as far as calculation of adhika or kshyaya masa etc. is concerned. And this can be done only by treating Tapas, Tapasya etc. months as solar and Magha, Phalgua etc. months as lunar. > > > > With regards, > > > > A K Kaul > > > > HinduCalendar , sammod acharya <samodacharya@> wrote: > > > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaullji > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for remembering.Best wishes of vatrsararambha to you and all. > > > > Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month > > > > when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined. All these things are explained in the kaundinnyayana vyakhyana of VJ published by Chaukhamba Vidya Bhavana of Varanasi (2005); the book is available in Delhi at Chaukhmba Sanskrit Pratisthana, 38 U A Bangalo road, Jabahara Nagara also. All things are explained in Hindi also in this book. Please read the book thoroughly every thing will be clear.Our new hindi book on vedanga jyotish Bharatavarsheeya jyotishke jwalant prashna aur Vedanga Jyotish (2008) published by same publisher deals in detail with all these issues. > > > > > > > > regards , > > > > > > > > sammod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > jyotirved <jyotirved@> > > [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > hinducalendar , , usbrahmins , vedic_research_institute , akandabaratam , asthikasamaj , mukti_marg , indiaarchaeology > > Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:11 AM > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009! > > > > Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two Ayanaas i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and Hemanta Sampat respectively. > > > > All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period. > > > > Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks, which some people call “Vedic astrologyâ€ÂÂ, we have gone completely out of touch with these universal geographic and religious phenomena. > > > > Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas, including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata, Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapu rana etc. > > > > The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. IST and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of Uttarayana will be on December 22 right from the dawn. > > > > It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in UP and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar Magha apart from Shishira Ritu. > > > > There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas, not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, being imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those works. > > > > Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is the largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her “religious freedom†even to celebrate any imaginary sankranti! > > > > The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of January 15, when “almighty†Lahiri Dharniumasa will end! > > > > With regards, > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Dear Kaul saheb, look at it in a positive manner It only took you 10 years to experience a 100% increase in your team! So far there was just you talking, now there will be two of you! Happy New Year! RR_, , " Krishen " <jyotirved wrote: > > Shri Prashant Pandeyji, > Jai Shri Ram! > <After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail).> > What you call " fresh air " is actually a rehash of my 1999 ephemeris---an " event " that took place more than ten year back! In fact, I have been repeating the same " clitches " again and again and boring everbody unnecessarily! Anyway, I am glad that you find something fresh in it. > < Am i allowed to write on your mails??> > Anybody can write on any mail, and it is up to the moderator to allow it to appear on the forum or not! > < I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail.> > Why should I get angry? Whenever any contrarian views are presented, I evaluate them thoroughly and if need be, change my views! After all, what I am writing today is based on my readings and intereactions till date! Who knows, I may repudiate my own stand after a few days! E.g., till a few years back, I was myself under the impression that the real Vamadevas had nothing else to do except to erect and delineate the horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Hary (even if they did not exist by those names then---witness the non-existent Brighu and Ravana and Aruna Samhitas!)! But when I found that it was impossible for them to calculate even the exact timing of Udagayana, leave along shashtyamsha!---because of the limitations at that point of time, and also when I found that instead of fatalism and latching on to Kala Sarpa and other yogas, they advocated at every step " karmanyeva adhikaraste, ma phaleshu kadachanai " , I had to change my views! > So who knows, after reading your post, may be I will change my views further and advocate that we must stop celebrating Lahiri Samkrantis and start celebrating Ramana Sankrantis or even Muladhara samkrantis and so on! > Jai Shri Ram! > A K Kaul > > PS > I have a request! I feel very odd/uneasy when someone addresses me as " respected " . Believe me, I am just an ordinary human being with the same mionor or major vices that everybody else has! Pl. as such, just " Kaul ji " or even " akk " will do. > AKK > > > , " prashant " <praspandey@> wrote: > > > > Respected Shri Kaulji, > > > > After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail). > > > > Am i allowed to write on your mails?? > > > > I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail. > > > > Regs, > > Prashant Pandey > > > > , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharyaji, > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > This is in continuation of my earlier post emphasizing that it is impossible that the Vedic seers would have used synodic lunar months to the exclusion of solar months for their calendars. > > > > > > While going through the Rig-Veda a few days back, I came across the following mantra (3/8/8) > > > > > > Aaditya rudra vasavah suneetha dyava-kshyama prithivee antarikshyam > > > > > > Sajoshaso yajnyam avantu deva oordvam krinvantu advarasya ketum > > > > > > > > > > > > Acharya Sayana, while commenting on this mantra has referred to aditya as “dwadasha adityah†i.e. twelve suns. > > > > > > Then in mantra 3//9/9, we find > > > > > > treeni shata tree sahasrani-agnim trimshachcha deva nav chaasaparyan > > > > > > aukshyan-gritarastrina barhirasma aadidhotaram nyasdayanta > > > > > > Commentigt on this mantra, Acharya Sayana has said, “…..devasankhya cha brihadarnyeke abhihita, ‘mahimana evaitesham ete tryastrimshat-tvena deva iti. Katme tetraystrimshad ashtav vasava ekadasha rudra dwadasha aadityas ta ekatrimshad indraschaiva prajapatishchai trayastrimsshavâ€. Thus the Acharya has talked of the fifth mantra of ninth adyaya of third Brahmana of Brihad Arnyaka-upanishada, that refers to thirty-three devas, which include eight Vasus, eleven Rudras, twelve Adityas (making the devas thirty-one) and by including Indra and Prajapati the number of Devas becomes thirty-threeâ€. > > > > > > Reading these comments of Acharya Sayana, I recalled that I had discussed this mantra of the Brihadarnyaka Upanishada in my “Shri Krishna Universal Ephemeris & Panchang†for 1999 AD, And here is what I had written on page 86 in that ephemeris, “Brhad Arnyaka Upanishad 3/9/5 runs thus, ‘katama aditya iti dwadasha vai masah samvatsarashchaita aadtiya ete heedam sarvam aadadaana yanti te yad idam sarvam aadadaana yanti tasmad aditya iti’ (meaning) ‘Vidagda Shakalya asks---‘Who are the Adityas’? (Yajnyavalkya replies) ‘Twelve months themselves which are the limbs of a Samvatsara, a year, are Adtiyas. (How?) Because these (very) months through their constant cycles---movements---go on accepting the deeds of all the human beings as well as dispensing their results by way of their life span etc. and as they (these twelve months) ‘accept while moving’ that is why they are known as Adityas†> > > > > > On the same page of that very ephemeris I had said further, “(As per 3/6/9 of the Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada) it has been said, ‘O Gargi, under the command of this very indestructible Brahman, days, fortnights, months, Ritus and Samvatsaras remain what they areâ€. > > > > > > Thus this Upanishada also has clubbed the solar months with seasons and then with the year. > > > > > > Similarly, Acharya Shankara has said in his commentary on 4/15/4 of Chhandogya Upaishada “yan shad udanneti masan†, “The departed soul goes to the deity presiding over the six months when the sun goes Uttara†which should mean when the sun has northern declination---Uttarayana. > > > > > > Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada is a part of Vajasneya Brahmana of Kanva Shakha of the Yajurveda, and must, as such, predate the Vedaqnga Jyotisha of Acharya Lagadha. Chhandogya Upanishad is a part of Talavakar Samaveda. > > > > > > Since the Rig-Veda talks of adityas in plural, it means that the Rig-Veda is also referring to solar months, and that is why Acharya Sayana has interpreted those (twelve) adityas as twelve months. > > > > > > There cannot therefore be any doubt that the Vedas do talk of solar months and ayanas definitely and it was only to those very seasonal solar months that the lunar (synodic) months like Magha, Phalguna etc. were aligned/pegged. > > > > > > Regarding your statement that nobody in Kathmandu celebrates any Samkranti, that only goes to prove that even Nepal, the “only Hindu kingdom†of yesteryears, had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis. I will, however, write about that in a separate post. > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharya, > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram and welcome to HinduCalendar forum. > > > > > > In fact, Hindus need scholars like you for clear cut guidelines about streamlining the Hindu Calendar. > > > > > > < Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month> > > > > > > You are absolutely right that in the Vedanga Jyotisha and later Paitamaha and Vasishtha Sidhanta etc., we do not have any clear indication about the methodology of finding the starting dates of solar months. That is also clear from Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis being conspicuous by their absence from all these astronomical works. > > > > > > But the four cardinal points have been given due importance in the Vedas and the VJ directly or indirectly. One of the main handicaps that the Indian astronomers were facing as early as 1400 BCE or even in early centuries of Common Era, was the mathematical computation for calculating exact solar ingresses from Tapas to Tapasya and so on. Gnomon was the main instrument used for such purposes, but it is next to impossible to calculate the exact timings of even Uttarayana or Dakshinayana etc. phenomena leave alone the other months like Tapasya and Madhu etc., without taking recourse to observations over several centuries. Modern astronomy is also undergoing changes by the day even if it is by milliseconds in computing the exact timings of Winter Solstice etc. > > > > > > A fundamental question that arises otherwise is that if the four cardinal points were not of any importance in the Vedic period, why and how did they get all the attention in the Puranas and Tantra Shashtra etc.? This will be evident from BVB6, 1999b and rashi5 and npj1 etc. documents in the files section. > > > > > > These four cardinal points do not have much of a religious significance in other religions. Thus though Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were imported into India from other countries, and they were clubbed with Vernal and Autumnal Equinox etc., but the solar ingress into (so called Sayana rashis) of Mesha, Karkata, Tula and Makara etc. rashis gained prominence and importance only because of their association with the four cardinal points. If Makar Sankranti was being celebrated with fervour over the last several centuries I India, it is not because that Sankranti has any intrinsic value but it is only because of its association with Udagayana, the Winter Solstice, as it was the start of the new solar year as per the Vedanga Jyotisha. > > > > > > We also find that several commentators of the Vedanga Jyotisha have linked Tapas and Tapasya etc. months to seasonal solar months and Magha, Phalgua etc. to lunar months. > > > > > > Similarly, regarding the thirteen lunar months, an adhika and kshyya masa can take place only if it is compared to some standard year that has only twelve months. To take the duration of the solar year as 366 days and then calculate adhika or kshyaya lunar masa just on the basis of that very duration is a far fetched point. > > > > > > We find the mention of thirteenth month in the Rig Veda itself, and unless and until there had been a concept of twelve solar months, it is impossible to presume that the thirteenth month would have been an adhika masa! > > > > > > <when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined.> > > > > > > It was not an easy job to determine even a solar year in 1400 BCE! Regarding a lunar year, it is a misnomer! A solar year means the revolution of the earth from one Solstice to another as during the time of the VJ or from one Equinox to another, as at present. On the other hand, lunar revolution from one VE to another is known as a Tropical month and from one  " Fixed Star†to another is known as a sidereal month, whereas the period between one New Moon and another is known as a Synodic month! There is never a lunar year, as such! Besides, we have to bear in mind that it is a  " masa†(month) that is adhika or kshyaya, and it can be so only against some other standard month and not some standard year! > > > > > > As such, we have to go by the spirit (and not just the  letter) of the Vedas and the Veadanga Jyotisha as far as calculation of adhika or kshyaya masa etc. is concerned. And this can be done only by treating Tapas, Tapasya etc. months as solar and Magha, Phalgua etc. months as lunar. > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > HinduCalendar , sammod acharya <samodacharya@> wrote: > > > > > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaullji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for remembering.Best wishes of vatrsararambha to you and all. > > > > > > Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month > > > > > > when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined. All these things are explained in the kaundinnyayana vyakhyana of VJ published by Chaukhamba Vidya Bhavana of Varanasi (2005); the book is available in Delhi at Chaukhmba Sanskrit Pratisthana, 38 U A Bangalo road, Jabahara Nagara also. All things are explained in Hindi also in this book. Please read the book thoroughly every thing will be clear.Our new hindi book on vedanga jyotish Bharatavarsheeya jyotishke jwalant prashna aur Vedanga Jyotish (2008) published by same publisher deals in detail with all these issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards , > > > > > > > > > > > > sammod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > jyotirved <jyotirved@> > > > [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > hinducalendar , , usbrahmins , vedic_research_institute , akandabaratam , asthikasamaj , mukti_marg , indiaarchaeology > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009! > > > > > > Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two Ayanaas i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and Hemanta Sampat respectively. > > > > > > All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period. > > > > > > Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks, which some people call “Vedic astrologyâ€ÂÂ, we have gone completely out of touch with these universal geographic and religious phenomena. > > > > > > Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas, including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata, Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapu rana etc. > > > > > > The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. IST and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of Uttarayana will be on December 22 right from the dawn. > > > > > > It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in UP and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar Magha apart from Shishira Ritu. > > > > > > There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas, not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, being imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those works. > > > > > > Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is the largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her “religious freedom†even to celebrate any imaginary sankranti! > > > > > > The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of January 15, when “almighty†Lahiri Dharniumasa will end! > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Shri Rohini Ranjan ji, Jai Sbhri Ram! < So far there was just you talking, now there will be two of you> Eko ajam bahuda syaam! Jai Shri Ram! AKK , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Kaul saheb, look at it in a positive manner > > It only took you 10 years to experience a 100% increase in your team! > > So far there was just you talking, now there will be two of you! > > Happy New Year! > > RR_, > > , " Krishen " jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > Shri Prashant Pandeyji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > <After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail).> > > What you call " fresh air " is actually a rehash of my 1999 ephemeris---an " event " that took place more than ten year back! In fact, I have been repeating the same " clitches " again and again and boring everbody unnecessarily! Anyway, I am glad that you find something fresh in it. > > < Am i allowed to write on your mails??> > > Anybody can write on any mail, and it is up to the moderator to allow it to appear on the forum or not! > > < I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail.> > > Why should I get angry? Whenever any contrarian views are presented, I evaluate them thoroughly and if need be, change my views! After all, what I am writing today is based on my readings and intereactions till date! Who knows, I may repudiate my own stand after a few days! E.g., till a few years back, I was myself under the impression that the real Vamadevas had nothing else to do except to erect and delineate the horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Hary (even if they did not exist by those names then---witness the non-existent Brighu and Ravana and Aruna Samhitas!)! But when I found that it was impossible for them to calculate even the exact timing of Udagayana, leave along shashtyamsha!---because of the limitations at that point of time, and also when I found that instead of fatalism and latching on to Kala Sarpa and other yogas, they advocated at every step " karmanyeva adhikaraste, ma phaleshu kadachanai " , I had to change my views! > > So who knows, after reading your post, may be I will change my views further and advocate that we must stop celebrating Lahiri Samkrantis and start celebrating Ramana Sankrantis or even Muladhara samkrantis and so on! > > Jai Shri Ram! > > A K Kaul > > > > PS > > I have a request! I feel very odd/uneasy when someone addresses me as " respected " . Believe me, I am just an ordinary human being with the same mionor or major vices that everybody else has! Pl. as such, just " Kaul ji " or even " akk " will do. > > AKK > > > > > > , " prashant " <praspandey@> wrote: > > > > > > Respected Shri Kaulji, > > > > > > After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail). > > > > > > Am i allowed to write on your mails?? > > > > > > I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail. > > > > > > Regs, > > > Prashant Pandey > > > > > > , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharyaji, > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > This is in continuation of my earlier post emphasizing that it is impossible that the Vedic seers would have used synodic lunar months to the exclusion of solar months for their calendars. > > > > > > > > While going through the Rig-Veda a few days back, I came across the following mantra (3/8/8) > > > > > > > > Aaditya rudra vasavah suneetha dyava-kshyama prithivee antarikshyam > > > > > > > > Sajoshaso yajnyam avantu deva oordvam krinvantu advarasya ketum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Acharya Sayana, while commenting on this mantra has referred to aditya as “dwadasha adityah†i.e. twelve suns. > > > > > > > > Then in mantra 3//9/9, we find > > > > > > > > treeni shata tree sahasrani-agnim trimshachcha deva nav chaasaparyan > > > > > > > > aukshyan-gritarastrina barhirasma aadidhotaram nyasdayanta > > > > > > > > Commentigt on this mantra, Acharya Sayana has said, “…..devasankhya cha brihadarnyeke abhihita, ‘mahimana evaitesham ete tryastrimshat-tvena deva iti. Katme tetraystrimshad ashtav vasava ekadasha rudra dwadasha aadityas ta ekatrimshad indraschaiva prajapatishchai trayastrimsshavâ€. Thus the Acharya has talked of the fifth mantra of ninth adyaya of third Brahmana of Brihad Arnyaka-upanishada, that refers to thirty-three devas, which include eight Vasus, eleven Rudras, twelve Adityas (making the devas thirty-one) and by including Indra and Prajapati the number of Devas becomes thirty-threeâ€. > > > > > > > > Reading these comments of Acharya Sayana, I recalled that I had discussed this mantra of the Brihadarnyaka Upanishada in my “Shri Krishna Universal Ephemeris & Panchang†for 1999 AD, And here is what I had written on page 86 in that ephemeris, “Brhad Arnyaka Upanishad 3/9/5 runs thus, ‘katama aditya iti dwadasha vai masah samvatsarashchaita aadtiya ete heedam sarvam aadadaana yanti te yad idam sarvam aadadaana yanti tasmad aditya iti’ (meaning) ‘Vidagda Shakalya asks---‘Who are the Adityas’? (Yajnyavalkya replies) ‘Twelve months themselves which are the limbs of a Samvatsara, a year, are Adtiyas. (How?) Because these (very) months through their constant cycles---movements---go on accepting the deeds of all the human beings as well as dispensing their results by way of their life span etc. and as they (these twelve months) ‘accept while moving’ that is why they are known as Adityas†> > > > > > > > On the same page of that very ephemeris I had said further, “(As per 3/6/9 of the Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada) it has been said, ‘O Gargi, under the command of this very indestructible Brahman, days, fortnights, months, Ritus and Samvatsaras remain what they areâ€. > > > > > > > > Thus this Upanishada also has clubbed the solar months with seasons and then with the year. > > > > > > > > Similarly, Acharya Shankara has said in his commentary on 4/15/4 of Chhandogya Upaishada “yan shad udanneti masan†, “The departed soul goes to the deity presiding over the six months when the sun goes Uttara†which should mean when the sun has northern declination---Uttarayana. > > > > > > > > Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada is a part of Vajasneya Brahmana of Kanva Shakha of the Yajurveda, and must, as such, predate the Vedaqnga Jyotisha of Acharya Lagadha. Chhandogya Upanishad is a part of Talavakar Samaveda. > > > > > > > > Since the Rig-Veda talks of adityas in plural, it means that the Rig-Veda is also referring to solar months, and that is why Acharya Sayana has interpreted those (twelve) adityas as twelve months. > > > > > > > > There cannot therefore be any doubt that the Vedas do talk of solar months and ayanas definitely and it was only to those very seasonal solar months that the lunar (synodic) months like Magha, Phalguna etc. were aligned/pegged. > > > > > > > > Regarding your statement that nobody in Kathmandu celebrates any Samkranti, that only goes to prove that even Nepal, the “only Hindu kingdom†of yesteryears, had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis. I will, however, write about that in a separate post. > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram > > > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharya, > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram and welcome to HinduCalendar forum. > > > > > > > > In fact, Hindus need scholars like you for clear cut guidelines about streamlining the Hindu Calendar. > > > > > > > > < Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month> > > > > > > > > You are absolutely right that in the Vedanga Jyotisha and later Paitamaha and Vasishtha Sidhanta etc., we do not have any clear indication about the methodology of finding the starting dates of solar months. That is also clear from Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis being conspicuous by their absence from all these astronomical works. > > > > > > > > But the four cardinal points have been given due importance in the Vedas and the VJ directly or indirectly. One of the main handicaps that the Indian astronomers were facing as early as 1400 BCE or even in early centuries of Common Era, was the mathematical computation for calculating exact solar ingresses from Tapas to Tapasya and so on. Gnomon was the main instrument used for such purposes, but it is next to impossible to calculate the exact timings of even Uttarayana or Dakshinayana etc. phenomena leave alone the other months like Tapasya and Madhu etc., without taking recourse to observations over several centuries. Modern astronomy is also undergoing changes by the day even if it is by milliseconds in computing the exact timings of Winter Solstice etc. > > > > > > > > A fundamental question that arises otherwise is that if the four cardinal points were not of any importance in the Vedic period, why and how did they get all the attention in the Puranas and Tantra Shashtra etc.? This will be evident from BVB6, 1999b and rashi5 and npj1 etc. documents in the files section. > > > > > > > > These four cardinal points do not have much of a religious significance in other religions. Thus though Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were imported into India from other countries, and they were clubbed with Vernal and Autumnal Equinox etc., but the solar ingress into (so called Sayana rashis) of Mesha, Karkata, Tula and Makara etc. rashis gained prominence and importance only because of their association with the four cardinal points. If Makar Sankranti was being celebrated with fervour over the last several centuries I India, it is not because that Sankranti has any intrinsic value but it is only because of its association with Udagayana, the Winter Solstice, as it was the start of the new solar year as per the Vedanga Jyotisha. > > > > > > > > We also find that several commentators of the Vedanga Jyotisha have linked Tapas and Tapasya etc. months to seasonal solar months and Magha, Phalgua etc. to lunar months. > > > > > > > > Similarly, regarding the thirteen lunar months, an adhika and kshyya masa can take place only if it is compared to some standard year that has only twelve months. To take the duration of the solar year as 366 days and then calculate adhika or kshyaya lunar masa just on the basis of that very duration is a far fetched point. > > > > > > > > We find the mention of thirteenth month in the Rig Veda itself, and unless and until there had been a concept of twelve solar months, it is impossible to presume that the thirteenth month would have been an adhika masa! > > > > > > > > <when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined.> > > > > > > > > It was not an easy job to determine even a solar year in 1400 BCE! Regarding a lunar year, it is a misnomer! A solar year means the revolution of the earth from one Solstice to another as during the time of the VJ or from one Equinox to another, as at present. On the other hand, lunar revolution from one VE to another is known as a Tropical month and from one  " Fixed Star†to another is known as a sidereal month, whereas the period between one New Moon and another is known as a Synodic month! There is never a lunar year, as such! Besides, we have to bear in mind that it is a  " masa†(month) that is adhika or kshyaya, and it can be so only against some other standard month and not some standard year! > > > > > > > > As such, we have to go by the spirit (and not just the  letter) of the Vedas and the Veadanga Jyotisha as far as calculation of adhika or kshyaya masa etc. is concerned. And this can be done only by treating Tapas, Tapasya etc. months as solar and Magha, Phalgua etc. months as lunar. > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar , sammod acharya <samodacharya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaullji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for remembering.Best wishes of vatrsararambha to you and all. > > > > > > > > Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month > > > > > > > > when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined. All these things are explained in the kaundinnyayana vyakhyana of VJ published by Chaukhamba Vidya Bhavana of Varanasi (2005); the book is available in Delhi at Chaukhmba Sanskrit Pratisthana, 38 U A Bangalo road, Jabahara Nagara also. All things are explained in Hindi also in this book. Please read the book thoroughly every thing will be clear.Our new hindi book on vedanga jyotish Bharatavarsheeya jyotishke jwalant prashna aur Vedanga Jyotish (2008) published by same publisher deals in detail with all these issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sammod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotirved <jyotirved@> > > > > [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > > hinducalendar , , usbrahmins , vedic_research_institute , akandabaratam , asthikasamaj , mukti_marg , indiaarchaeology > > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009! > > > > > > > > Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two Ayanaas i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and Hemanta Sampat respectively. > > > > > > > > All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks, which some people call “Vedic astrologyâ€ÂÂ, we have gone completely out of touch with these universal geographic and religious phenomena. > > > > > > > > Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas, including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata, Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapu rana etc. > > > > > > > > The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. IST and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of Uttarayana will be on December 22 right from the dawn. > > > > > > > > It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in UP and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar Magha apart from Shishira Ritu. > > > > > > > > There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas, not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, being imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those works. > > > > > > > > Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is the largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her “religious freedom†even to celebrate any imaginary sankranti! > > > > > > > > The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of January 15, when “almighty†Lahiri Dharniumasa will end! > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , " hari " <harimalla wrote: Dear Prashanta Pandeyji, Namaskar! <But Mallaji, In which VEDAs, Upanishad, Samhitas, there is talk of Bary-Centre.I am quite amazed to read your statement that Adityas are not related to Sun but with 12 Bary-Centre.> If you know the various aspects of the bary center,you will know that it is the point at the center of the lunar orbit. In science it is comparatively a new concept. But in our religion it is as old as our religious astrology itself. This is the very reason we celebrate the festivals by the lunar tithis. If you refer to Kalamadhav, a book on dharmas shastra, on the subject of adhimas,it gives some detail what the Aditya is. It clearly mentions of the purush or aditya of the lunar months. Please refer there so we can discuss further.Thankyou. Hari Malla Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , " prashant " <praspandey@> wrote: > > < In connection with the 12 suns or Adityas, may I suggest that that > they are not exactly the sun itself, but induced by the sun as the center of the > lunar orbit. Perhaps you think that the moon orbits around the earth center. > This is not exactly true. The moon actually goes around the bary cneter,which is > directly linked with the sun.The 12 barycenters formed by the 12 lunar orbits or > months are also known as 12 suns for convenience. > > > Shri HariMallaji, > > You didn't use abusive language up till now, I applaud it ! > Instead ppl abused you, I really feel sorry for that. > > But Mallaji, In which VEDAs, Upanishad, Samhitas, there is talk of Bary-Centre. > > I am quite amazed to read your statement that Adityas are not related to Sun but with 12 Bary-Centre. > > I think YOUR TALKS ARE MORE DANGEROUS THAN JYOTISHIS. > > Mallaji which ministry you hold in current Nepal Gov or for what ministry you work?? > > I humbly advise you that you should start new religion, but please start it in EUROPE because it is best place for same because only those person can change old logical theories (Like they did with BIBLE) and eat well new-new distorted facts about religions like they did with Christ's teachings (All scholars from TOP Universities and famous historians know that very well) > > Mallaji, it is better to directly implement your theory in NEPAL just by hook or crook like Lahiri did, otherwise here you are not going to defend even a single point. > > Mr Kaul and Mr G K Goel are now members of Jyotishgroup, you may put your points over there. Mr G K Goel will show his presence in 2-3 days over there as he has recently joined that forum. > > Regs, > Prashant Pandey > > CC :- Mr A K Kaul > > Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > Dear moderator, > > Please allow this mail as it is urgent for shri Kaulji to understand that the 12 Adityas are the centers of the 12 lunar months starting from the luanr month of maagha.Thanks. > > Hari Malla > > > > parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > Dear Shri Kaulji, > > namaskar! In connection with the 12 suns or Adityas, may I suggest that that they are not exactly the sun itself, but induced by the sun as the center of the lunar orbit. Perhaps you think that the moon orbits around the earth center. This is not exactly true. The moon actually goes around the bary cneter,which is directly linked with the sun.The 12 barycenters formed by the 12 lunar orbits or months are also known as 12 suns for convenience. These are also known as 12 Adityas.The names of the 12 suns are Arun, surya, bhanu etc starting from the month of lunar maagha as given in Kalamadhav book under the heading of Adhimas.Please refer there. > > thanks, > > Hari Malla > > > > parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , " prashant " <praspandey@> wrote: > > > > > > Respected Shri Kaulji, > > > > > > After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail). > > > > > > Am i allowed to write on your mails?? > > > > > > I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail. > > > > > > Regs, > > > Prashant Pandey > > > > > > , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharyaji, > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > This is in continuation of my earlier post emphasizing that it is impossible that the Vedic seers would have used synodic lunar months to the exclusion of solar months for their calendars. > > > > > > While going through the Rig-Veda a few days back, I came across the following mantra (3/8/8) > > > > > > Aaditya rudra vasavah suneetha dyava-kshyama prithivee antarikshyam > > > > > > Sajoshaso yajnyam avantu deva oordvam krinvantu advarasya ketum > > > > > > > > > > > > Acharya Sayana, while commenting on this mantra has referred to aditya as “dwadasha adityah†i.e. twelve suns. > > > > > > Then in mantra 3//9/9, we find > > > > > > treeni shata tree sahasrani-agnim trimshachcha deva nav chaasaparyan > > > > > > aukshyan-gritarastrina barhirasma aadidhotaram nyasdayanta > > > > > > Commentigt on this mantra, Acharya Sayana has said, “…..devasankhya cha brihadarnyeke abhihita, ‘mahimana evaitesham ete tryastrimshat-tvena deva iti. Katme tetraystrimshad ashtav vasava ekadasha rudra dwadasha aadityas ta ekatrimshad indraschaiva prajapatishchai trayastrimsshavâ€. Thus the Acharya has talked of the fifth mantra of ninth adyaya of third Brahmana of Brihad Arnyaka-upanishada, that refers to thirty-three devas, which include eight Vasus, eleven Rudras, twelve Adityas (making the devas thirty-one) and by including Indra and Prajapati the number of Devas becomes thirty-threeâ€. > > > > > > Reading these comments of Acharya Sayana, I recalled that I had discussed this mantra of the Brihadarnyaka Upanishada in my “Shri Krishna Universal Ephemeris & Panchang†for 1999 AD, And here is what I had written on page 86 in that ephemeris, “Brhad Arnyaka Upanishad 3/9/5 runs thus, ‘katama aditya iti dwadasha vai masah samvatsarashchaita aadtiya ete heedam sarvam aadadaana yanti te yad idam sarvam aadadaana yanti tasmad aditya iti’ (meaning) ‘Vidagda Shakalya asks---‘Who are the Adityas’? (Yajnyavalkya replies) ‘Twelve months themselves which are the limbs of a Samvatsara, a year, are Adtiyas. (How?) Because these (very) months through their constant cycles---movements---go on accepting the deeds of all the human beings as well as dispensing their results by way of their life span etc. and as they (these twelve months) ‘accept while moving’ that is why they are known as Adityas†> > > > > > On the same page of that very ephemeris I had said further, “(As per 3/6/9 of the Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada) it has been said, ‘O Gargi, under the command of this very indestructible Brahman, days, fortnights, months, Ritus and Samvatsaras remain what they areâ€. > > > > > > Thus this Upanishada also has clubbed the solar months with seasons and then with the year. > > > > > > Similarly, Acharya Shankara has said in his commentary on 4/15/4 of Chhandogya Upaishada “yan shad udanneti masan†, “The departed soul goes to the deity presiding over the six months when the sun goes Uttara†which should mean when the sun has northern declination---Uttarayana. > > > > > > Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada is a part of Vajasneya Brahmana of Kanva Shakha of the Yajurveda, and must, as such, predate the Vedaqnga Jyotisha of Acharya Lagadha. Chhandogya Upanishad is a part of Talavakar Samaveda. > > > > > > Since the Rig-Veda talks of adityas in plural, it means that the Rig-Veda is also referring to solar months, and that is why Acharya Sayana has interpreted those (twelve) adityas as twelve months. > > > > > > There cannot therefore be any doubt that the Vedas do talk of solar months and ayanas definitely and it was only to those very seasonal solar months that the lunar (synodic) months like Magha, Phalguna etc. were aligned/pegged. > > > > > > Regarding your statement that nobody in Kathmandu celebrates any Samkranti, that only goes to prove that even Nepal, the “only Hindu kingdom†of yesteryears, had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis. I will, however, write about that in a separate post. > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharya, > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram and welcome to HinduCalendar forum. > > > > > > In fact, Hindus need scholars like you for clear cut guidelines about streamlining the Hindu Calendar. > > > > > > < Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month> > > > > > > You are absolutely right that in the Vedanga Jyotisha and later Paitamaha and Vasishtha Sidhanta etc., we do not have any clear indication about the methodology of finding the starting dates of solar months. That is also clear from Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis being conspicuous by their absence from all these astronomical works. > > > > > > But the four cardinal points have been given due importance in the Vedas and the VJ directly or indirectly. One of the main handicaps that the Indian astronomers were facing as early as 1400 BCE or even in early centuries of Common Era, was the mathematical computation for calculating exact solar ingresses from Tapas to Tapasya and so on. Gnomon was the main instrument used for such purposes, but it is next to impossible to calculate the exact timings of even Uttarayana or Dakshinayana etc. phenomena leave alone the other months like Tapasya and Madhu etc., without taking recourse to observations over several centuries. Modern astronomy is also undergoing changes by the day even if it is by milliseconds in computing the exact timings of Winter Solstice etc. > > > > > > A fundamental question that arises otherwise is that if the four cardinal points were not of any importance in the Vedic period, why and how did they get all the attention in the Puranas and Tantra Shashtra etc.? This will be evident from BVB6, 1999b and rashi5 and npj1 etc. documents in the files section. > > > > > > These four cardinal points do not have much of a religious significance in other religions. Thus though Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were imported into India from other countries, and they were clubbed with Vernal and Autumnal Equinox etc., but the solar ingress into (so called Sayana rashis) of Mesha, Karkata, Tula and Makara etc. rashis gained prominence and importance only because of their association with the four cardinal points. If Makar Sankranti was being celebrated with fervour over the last several centuries I India, it is not because that Sankranti has any intrinsic value but it is only because of its association with Udagayana, the Winter Solstice, as it was the start of the new solar year as per the Vedanga Jyotisha. > > > > > > We also find that several commentators of the Vedanga Jyotisha have linked Tapas and Tapasya etc. months to seasonal solar months and Magha, Phalgua etc. to lunar months. > > > > > > Similarly, regarding the thirteen lunar months, an adhika and kshyya masa can take place only if it is compared to some standard year that has only twelve months. To take the duration of the solar year as 366 days and then calculate adhika or kshyaya lunar masa just on the basis of that very duration is a far fetched point. > > > > > > We find the mention of thirteenth month in the Rig Veda itself, and unless and until there had been a concept of twelve solar months, it is impossible to presume that the thirteenth month would have been an adhika masa! > > > > > > <when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined.> > > > > > > It was not an easy job to determine even a solar year in 1400 BCE! Regarding a lunar year, it is a misnomer! A solar year means the revolution of the earth from one Solstice to another as during the time of the VJ or from one Equinox to another, as at present. On the other hand, lunar revolution from one VE to another is known as a Tropical month and from one  " Fixed Star†to another is known as a sidereal month, whereas the period between one New Moon and another is known as a Synodic month! There is never a lunar year, as such! Besides, we have to bear in mind that it is a  " masa†(month) that is adhika or kshyaya, and it can be so only against some other standard month and not some standard year! > > > > > > As such, we have to go by the spirit (and not just the  letter) of the Vedas and the Veadanga Jyotisha as far as calculation of adhika or kshyaya masa etc. is concerned. And this can be done only by treating Tapas, Tapasya etc. months as solar and Magha, Phalgua etc. months as lunar. > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > HinduCalendar , sammod acharya <samodacharya@> wrote: > > > > > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaullji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for remembering.Best wishes of vatrsararambha to you and all. > > > > > > Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month > > > > > > when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined. All these things are explained in the kaundinnyayana vyakhyana of VJ published by Chaukhamba Vidya Bhavana of Varanasi (2005); the book is available in Delhi at Chaukhmba Sanskrit Pratisthana, 38 U A Bangalo road, Jabahara Nagara also. All things are explained in Hindi also in this book. Please read the book thoroughly every thing will be clear.Our new hindi book on vedanga jyotish Bharatavarsheeya jyotishke jwalant prashna aur Vedanga Jyotish (2008) published by same publisher deals in detail with all these issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards , > > > > > > > > > > > > sammod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > jyotirved <jyotirved@> > > > [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > hinducalendar , , usbrahmins , vedic_research_institute , akandabaratam , asthikasamaj , mukti_marg , indiaarchaeology > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009! > > > > > > Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two Ayanaas i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and Hemanta Sampat respectively. > > > > > > All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period. > > > > > > Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks, which some people call “Vedic astrologyâ€ÂÂ, we have gone completely out of touch with these universal geographic and religious phenomena. > > > > > > Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas, including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata, Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapu rana etc. > > > > > > The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. IST and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of Uttarayana will be on December 22 right from the dawn. > > > > > > It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in UP and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar Magha apart from Shishira Ritu. > > > > > > There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas, not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, being imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those works. > > > > > > Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is the largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her “religious freedom†even to celebrate any imaginary sankranti! > > > > > > The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of January 15, when “almighty†Lahiri Dharniumasa will end! > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Shri Prashant Pandeyji, Jai Shri Ram! < i save that mail in my archive id so that i could show next generation ppl that Kaulji sometimes lost in front of me. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha> In Kashmir there is an anecdote that a Pathan was furious on seeing some " Baniya " also having moustaches! That Pathan challenged the Baniya that he must come prepared for a duel to the finish the very next day, so that it is ultimately established as to which of the two could have a " moonch " ! The Pathan also advised that since he was the only breadwinner of his family, he must put all the rest of his family members to eternal sleep. The Pathan also promised that he would do the same thing with his family members! The next day, when the Parthan saw the Baniya, he was aghast since the Baniya had removed his moiustache, whereas the Pathan had put all his family members to eternal sleep! As such, if my " losing in front of you " gives you some pleasure, I concede that I have already lost before you without having any duel! BTW, this " forum mongering " is actually a discussion and in fact, for me there are no losers or winners in it, since if I gert a different feedback supported with proofs, I will definitely change my views, even if some people call that " Kaul has lost the bout " . Regarding Uttarayana in Gujarat on January 14, pl. rst assured that with " lmighty " Lahiri Ayanamsha ruling the roost, in a few millenia we will celebrate Uttarayana on the day of Summer Solstice! That is actually what our friendly " Vedic astrologers " are aiming at! People will continue to fly kites then on Lahiri Uttarayana, even if it coincides with the Vedic Dakshinayana! Jai Shri Ram! A K Kaul , " prashant " <praspandey wrote: > > Resepected Shri Kaulji, > > At least i find somebody to whom i can not chase down at least in 10 yrs but i use to become very happy if i win over you in any issue, i save that mail in my archive id so that i could show next generation ppl that Kaulji sometimes lost in front of me. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha > > Anyway, one exciting gift for you, please read, what comments are written on that pic just right side of it. > > One comment from my side to that pic :- > > JYOTISHIS' UTTARAYANA > > http://www.ndtv.com/news/photos/album-details.php?albumPage=3 & id=6605 & Al\ bum=PHOTO_GALLERY & AlbumTitle=Modi+the+kite+runner > > Regs, > Prashant Pandey > > > , " Krishen " jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > Shri Prashant Pandeyji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > <After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail).> > > What you call " fresh air " is actually a rehash of my 1999 ephemeris---an " event " that took place more than ten year back! In fact, I have been repeating the same " clitches " again and again and boring everbody unnecessarily! Anyway, I am glad that you find something fresh in it. > > < Am i allowed to write on your mails??> > > Anybody can write on any mail, and it is up to the moderator to allow it to appear on the forum or not! > > < I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail.> > > Why should I get angry? Whenever any contrarian views are presented, I evaluate them thoroughly and if need be, change my views! After all, what I am writing today is based on my readings and intereactions till date! Who knows, I may repudiate my own stand after a few days! E.g., till a few years back, I was myself under the impression that the real Vamadevas had nothing else to do except to erect and delineate the horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Hary (even if they did not exist by those names then---witness the non-existent Brighu and Ravana and Aruna Samhitas!)! But when I found that it was impossible for them to calculate even the exact timing of Udagayana, leave along shashtyamsha!---because of the limitations at that point of time, and also when I found that instead of fatalism and latching on to Kala Sarpa and other yogas, they advocated at every step " karmanyeva adhikaraste, ma phaleshu kadachanai " , I had to change my views! > > So who knows, after reading your post, may be I will change my views further and advocate that we must stop celebrating Lahiri Samkrantis and start celebrating Ramana Sankrantis or even Muladhara samkrantis and so on! > > Jai Shri Ram! > > A K Kaul > > > > PS > > I have a request! I feel very odd/uneasy when someone addresses me as " respected " . Believe me, I am just an ordinary human being with the same mionor or major vices that everybody else has! Pl. as such, just " Kaul ji " or even " akk " will do. > > AKK > > > > > > , " prashant " <praspandey@> wrote: > > > > > > Respected Shri Kaulji, > > > > > > After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail). > > > > > > Am i allowed to write on your mails?? > > > > > > I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your mail. > > > > > > Regs, > > > Prashant Pandey > > > > > > , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharyaji, > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > This is in continuation of my earlier post emphasizing that it is impossible that the Vedic seers would have used synodic lunar months to the exclusion of solar months for their calendars. > > > > > > > > While going through the Rig-Veda a few days back, I came across the following mantra (3/8/8) > > > > > > > > Aaditya rudra vasavah suneetha dyava-kshyama prithivee antarikshyam > > > > > > > > Sajoshaso yajnyam avantu deva oordvam krinvantu advarasya ketum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Acharya Sayana, while commenting on this mantra has referred to aditya as “dwadasha adityah†i.e. twelve suns. > > > > > > > > Then in mantra 3//9/9, we find > > > > > > > > treeni shata tree sahasrani-agnim trimshachcha deva nav chaasaparyan > > > > > > > > aukshyan-gritarastrina barhirasma aadidhotaram nyasdayanta > > > > > > > > Commentigt on this mantra, Acharya Sayana has said, “…..devasankhya cha brihadarnyeke abhihita, ‘mahimana evaitesham ete tryastrimshat-tvena deva iti. Katme tetraystrimshad ashtav vasava ekadasha rudra dwadasha aadityas ta ekatrimshad indraschaiva prajapatishchai trayastrimsshavâ€. Thus the Acharya has talked of the fifth mantra of ninth adyaya of third Brahmana of Brihad Arnyaka-upanishada, that refers to thirty-three devas, which include eight Vasus, eleven Rudras, twelve Adityas (making the devas thirty-one) and by including Indra and Prajapati the number of Devas becomes thirty-threeâ€. > > > > > > > > Reading these comments of Acharya Sayana, I recalled that I had discussed this mantra of the Brihadarnyaka Upanishada in my “Shri Krishna Universal Ephemeris & Panchang†for 1999 AD, And here is what I had written on page 86 in that ephemeris, “Brhad Arnyaka Upanishad 3/9/5 runs thus, ‘katama aditya iti dwadasha vai masah samvatsarashchaita aadtiya ete heedam sarvam aadadaana yanti te yad idam sarvam aadadaana yanti tasmad aditya iti’ (meaning) ‘Vidagda Shakalya asks---‘Who are the Adityas’? (Yajnyavalkya replies) ‘Twelve months themselves which are the limbs of a Samvatsara, a year, are Adtiyas. (How?) Because these (very) months through their constant cycles---movements---go on accepting the deeds of all the human beings as well as dispensing their results by way of their life span etc. and as they (these twelve months) ‘accept while moving’ that is why they are known as Adityas†> > > > > > > > On the same page of that very ephemeris I had said further, “(As per 3/6/9 of the Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada) it has been said, ‘O Gargi, under the command of this very indestructible Brahman, days, fortnights, months, Ritus and Samvatsaras remain what they areâ€. > > > > > > > > Thus this Upanishada also has clubbed the solar months with seasons and then with the year. > > > > > > > > Similarly, Acharya Shankara has said in his commentary on 4/15/4 of Chhandogya Upaishada “yan shad udanneti masan†, “The departed soul goes to the deity presiding over the six months when the sun goes Uttara†which should mean when the sun has northern declination---Uttarayana. > > > > > > > > Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada is a part of Vajasneya Brahmana of Kanva Shakha of the Yajurveda, and must, as such, predate the Vedaqnga Jyotisha of Acharya Lagadha. Chhandogya Upanishad is a part of Talavakar Samaveda. > > > > > > > > Since the Rig-Veda talks of adityas in plural, it means that the Rig-Veda is also referring to solar months, and that is why Acharya Sayana has interpreted those (twelve) adityas as twelve months. > > > > > > > > There cannot therefore be any doubt that the Vedas do talk of solar months and ayanas definitely and it was only to those very seasonal solar months that the lunar (synodic) months like Magha, Phalguna etc. were aligned/pegged. > > > > > > > > Regarding your statement that nobody in Kathmandu celebrates any Samkranti, that only goes to prove that even Nepal, the “only Hindu kingdom†of yesteryears, had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis. I will, however, write about that in a separate post. > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram > > > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sammod Acharya, > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram and welcome to HinduCalendar forum. > > > > > > > > In fact, Hindus need scholars like you for clear cut guidelines about streamlining the Hindu Calendar. > > > > > > > > < Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month> > > > > > > > > You are absolutely right that in the Vedanga Jyotisha and later Paitamaha and Vasishtha Sidhanta etc., we do not have any clear indication about the methodology of finding the starting dates of solar months. That is also clear from Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis being conspicuous by their absence from all these astronomical works. > > > > > > > > But the four cardinal points have been given due importance in the Vedas and the VJ directly or indirectly. One of the main handicaps that the Indian astronomers were facing as early as 1400 BCE or even in early centuries of Common Era, was the mathematical computation for calculating exact solar ingresses from Tapas to Tapasya and so on. Gnomon was the main instrument used for such purposes, but it is next to impossible to calculate the exact timings of even Uttarayana or Dakshinayana etc. phenomena leave alone the other months like Tapasya and Madhu etc., without taking recourse to observations over several centuries. Modern astronomy is also undergoing changes by the day even if it is by milliseconds in computing the exact timings of Winter Solstice etc. > > > > > > > > A fundamental question that arises otherwise is that if the four cardinal points were not of any importance in the Vedic period, why and how did they get all the attention in the Puranas and Tantra Shashtra etc.? This will be evident from BVB6, 1999b and rashi5 and npj1 etc. documents in the files section. > > > > > > > > These four cardinal points do not have much of a religious significance in other religions. Thus though Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were imported into India from other countries, and they were clubbed with Vernal and Autumnal Equinox etc., but the solar ingress into (so called Sayana rashis) of Mesha, Karkata, Tula and Makara etc. rashis gained prominence and importance only because of their association with the four cardinal points. If Makar Sankranti was being celebrated with fervour over the last several centuries I India, it is not because that Sankranti has any intrinsic value but it is only because of its association with Udagayana, the Winter Solstice, as it was the start of the new solar year as per the Vedanga Jyotisha. > > > > > > > > We also find that several commentators of the Vedanga Jyotisha have linked Tapas and Tapasya etc. months to seasonal solar months and Magha, Phalgua etc. to lunar months. > > > > > > > > Similarly, regarding the thirteen lunar months, an adhika and kshyya masa can take place only if it is compared to some standard year that has only twelve months. To take the duration of the solar year as 366 days and then calculate adhika or kshyaya lunar masa just on the basis of that very duration is a far fetched point. > > > > > > > > We find the mention of thirteenth month in the Rig Veda itself, and unless and until there had been a concept of twelve solar months, it is impossible to presume that the thirteenth month would have been an adhika masa! > > > > > > > > <when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined.> > > > > > > > > It was not an easy job to determine even a solar year in 1400 BCE! Regarding a lunar year, it is a misnomer! A solar year means the revolution of the earth from one Solstice to another as during the time of the VJ or from one Equinox to another, as at present. On the other hand, lunar revolution from one VE to another is known as a Tropical month and from one  " Fixed Star†to another is known as a sidereal month, whereas the period between one New Moon and another is known as a Synodic month! There is never a lunar year, as such! Besides, we have to bear in mind that it is a  " masa†(month) that is adhika or kshyaya, and it can be so only against some other standard month and not some standard year! > > > > > > > > As such, we have to go by the spirit (and not just the  letter) of the Vedas and the Veadanga Jyotisha as far as calculation of adhika or kshyaya masa etc. is concerned. And this can be done only by treating Tapas, Tapasya etc. months as solar and Magha, Phalgua etc. months as lunar. > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar , sammod acharya <samodacharya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaullji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for remembering.Best wishes of vatrsararambha to you and all. > > > > > > > > Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year, ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining the Vedic intercalary month > > > > > > > > when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined. All these things are explained in the kaundinnyayana vyakhyana of VJ published by Chaukhamba Vidya Bhavana of Varanasi (2005); the book is available in Delhi at Chaukhmba Sanskrit Pratisthana, 38 U A Bangalo road, Jabahara Nagara also. All things are explained in Hindi also in this book. Please read the book thoroughly every thing will be clear.Our new hindi book on vedanga jyotish Bharatavarsheeya jyotishke jwalant prashna aur Vedanga Jyotish (2008) published by same publisher deals in detail with all these issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sammod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotirved <jyotirved@> > > > > [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009 > > > > hinducalendar , , usbrahmins , vedic_research_institute , akandabaratam , asthikasamaj , mukti_marg , indiaarchaeology > > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009! > > > > > > > > Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two Ayanaas i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and Hemanta Sampat respectively. > > > > > > > > All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks, which some people call “Vedic astrologyâ€ÂÂ, we have gone completely out of touch with these universal geographic and religious phenomena. > > > > > > > > Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas, including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata, Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapu rana etc. > > > > > > > > The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. IST and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of Uttarayana will be on December 22 right from the dawn. > > > > > > > > It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in UP and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar Magha apart from Shishira Ritu. > > > > > > > > There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas, not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, being imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those works. > > > > > > > > Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is the largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her “religious freedom†even to celebrate any imaginary sankranti! > > > > > > > > The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of January 15, when “almighty†Lahiri Dharniumasa will end! > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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