Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 RR's response after Ravindramanijee's .... ========================= Internet has done more harm to astrology, ohh my God, there are 32 ways to frighten and cheat a layman in the name of Rahu & Ketu. Yesterday, after a long time, I was happen to hear Shri K.N. Rao, speaking at the inaguration of new batches of astrology course at BVB, Delhi, remarked the conditon of astrology is being practised that " if Rahu, Saturn and Mars are not available in a chart, the so called astrologers would die of starvation " , it is the plight of astrology now..... C.S. Ravindramani ============================ Dear CSR_jee, Yes -- it is!:-( Was this situation created by nativities or astrologers or both? I think the answer is obvious! What do we do next? The seekers are too wrapped in their miseries and are desperate to get some relief, some respite from the malady of karma! The 'healers' are in a better place to effect a change! For those that they serve and thereby serve themselves! We look upon YOU Ravindramani jee as our leader! How do you think this situation can be resolved? How may we bring JYOTISH back to HER THRONE? If your heart remains SILENT, please feel free to seek the advice of your TEACHER. Regards, Rohiniranjan , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > So you were the astrologer who determined his fate! > > 32 types? > > According to KN Rao, KSY has been misrepresented and so you should probably go back to the jyotishis who told you about the 32 types! > > Evidently, you do not trust them either, or you would not be asking your question on a public forum! > > This seems to have become the NORM, sadly in Jyotish! > > Mistrust! > > One asks for opinions and then asks again and again! > > And ends up confused! :-) > > And perhaps the confusion is well-deserved! > > Good luck!! > > RR_, > > , rashmi patel <rashmihpatel@> wrote: > > > > Respected RohiniJi, > > Well actually he did had all grahos in between moon-rahu but see there are 32 types of ksy > > & they really wonted to know like place-time & period of puja time so I just ask in group, > > here is his detail if you wonted to give your guidence > > dob= oct-30-1986 /  tob= 19;45pm/ place= modesto california usa > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@> > > > > Sat, January 9, 2010 10:09:16 PM > > Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? > > > >  > > Dear Rashmi_jee, > > > > Unless this relative/non- member is an astrologer or astrophile, one would wonder where she got the idea that she has KSY? > > > > If an astrologer was involved, you should ask that person the question that you posed here. > > > > I hope it was not YOU who told this person that they were born with KSY (as per your understanding) :-) > > > > Sincere astrological queries are very easy to discern! > > > > They come with full data, including the source of data and two or three full dates (day, month and year -- month spelt to avoid confusions between DD and MM used in different countries) and the current location of the entity! > > > > RR_, > > > > , " rashmihpatel " <rashmihpatel@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Respected Readers, > > > > > > I have relative not member of group but they need guidence on kaal sarp yogs remedeis like what place & what time & how long is puja time frame for full perfect viddhi done. Please can some one guide whom to contact > > > or any reader had experience on this that they can share & guide so please let me know > > > thank you > > > rashmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Shri Rohini ji, Shri K.N. Rao elaborated further, ‘’I ask you, dear students learn astrology with a yearning to understand the essence of astrology and practice the astrology with the same spirit, then this astrology would become a “para vidya†and a “way of Sadhana†for you and lead you to the doorstep that what a person should really seek in his lifeâ€. You may recall, years ago, he wrote in this very Group, how he categorizes his students in four categories. Honestly, I practice astrology with the same spirit that the way he emphasizes. I am fortunate, the Almighty showered his blessings, I have a livelihood to support my family and that is more than sufficient to take care of my bare needs. Astrology shall never be a livelihood for me in any given circumstance. I would prefer to remain silent and a witness. They know pretty well what “They†are liquidating and in turn what “They†are accumulating. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:02 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vaniwrote: > > > RR's response after Ravindramanijee's .... > ========================= > Internet has done more harm to astrology, ohh my God, there are 32 ways to > frighten and cheat a layman in the name of Rahu & Ketu. Yesterday, after a > long time, I was happen to hear Shri K.N. Rao, speaking at the inaguration > of new batches of astrology course at BVB, Delhi, remarked the conditon of > astrology is being practised that " if Rahu, Saturn and Mars are not > available in a chart, the so called astrologers would die of starvation " , > it > is the plight of astrology now..... > > C.S. Ravindramani > ============================ > Dear CSR_jee, > > Yes -- it is!:-( > > Was this situation created by nativities or astrologers or both? > > I think the answer is obvious! > > What do we do next? > > The seekers are too wrapped in their miseries and are desperate to get some > relief, some respite from the malady of karma! > > The 'healers' are in a better place to effect a change! > > For those that they serve and thereby serve themselves! > > We look upon YOU Ravindramani jee as our leader! > > How do you think this situation can be resolved? How may we bring JYOTISH > back to HER THRONE? > > If your heart remains SILENT, please feel free to seek the advice of your > TEACHER. > > Regards, > > Rohiniranjan > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 great one Ravindramani ji.... Love and regards, gopi. , " C.S. Ravindramani " <ravindramani wrote: > > Shri Rohini ji, > > > > Shri K.N. Rao elaborated further, ‘’I ask you, dear students learn > astrology with a yearning to understand the essence of astrology and > practice the astrology with the same spirit, then this astrology would > become a “para vidya†and a “way of Sadhana†for you and lead you to the > doorstep that what a person should really seek in his lifeâ€. You may > recall, years ago, he wrote in this very Group, how he categorizes his > students in four categories. > > > > Honestly, I practice astrology with the same spirit that the way he > emphasizes. I am fortunate, the Almighty showered his blessings, I have a > livelihood to support my family and that is more than sufficient to take > care of my bare needs. Astrology shall never be a livelihood for me in any > given circumstance. > > > > I would prefer to remain silent and a witness. They know pretty well what > “They†are liquidating and in turn what “They†are accumulating. > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:02 PM, rohinicrystal jyotish_vaniwrote: > > > > > > > RR's response after Ravindramanijee's .... > > ========================= > > Internet has done more harm to astrology, ohh my God, there are 32 ways to > > frighten and cheat a layman in the name of Rahu & Ketu. Yesterday, after a > > long time, I was happen to hear Shri K.N. Rao, speaking at the inaguration > > of new batches of astrology course at BVB, Delhi, remarked the conditon of > > astrology is being practised that " if Rahu, Saturn and Mars are not > > available in a chart, the so called astrologers would die of starvation " , > > it > > is the plight of astrology now..... > > > > C.S. Ravindramani > > ============================ > > Dear CSR_jee, > > > > Yes -- it is!:-( > > > > Was this situation created by nativities or astrologers or both? > > > > I think the answer is obvious! > > > > What do we do next? > > > > The seekers are too wrapped in their miseries and are desperate to get some > > relief, some respite from the malady of karma! > > > > The 'healers' are in a better place to effect a change! > > > > For those that they serve and thereby serve themselves! > > > > We look upon YOU Ravindramani jee as our leader! > > > > How do you think this situation can be resolved? How may we bring JYOTISH > > back to HER THRONE? > > > > If your heart remains SILENT, please feel free to seek the advice of your > > TEACHER. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Dear CSR jee, I hoped that Gopijee's message would be sans the strange characters - 'noise' that seems to have become a signature lately ;-) Since I have always admired KNR, for a variety of reasons since the first day I heard of him back in early 90's -- I shall make the effort to repost your message without the noisy punctuation that your email program you use and try to see if I can understand your message ;-) <<for my response, please move beyond your punctuation corrected PIECE! :-) ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Shri K.N. Rao elaborated further, I ask you, dear students learn > astrology with a yearning to understand the essence of astrology and > practice the astrology with the same spirit, then this astrology would > become a para vidya and a œway of Sadhana for you and lead you to the > doorstep that what a person should really seek in his life. You may > recall, years ago, he wrote in this very Group, how he categorizes his > students in four categories. > > > > Honestly, I practice astrology with the same spirit that the way he > emphasizes. I am fortunate, the Almighty showered his blessings, I have a > livelihood to support my family and that is more than sufficient to take > care of my bare needs. Astrology shall never be a livelihood for me in any > given circumstance. > > > > I would prefer to remain silent and a witness. They know pretty well what > They are liquidating and in turn what They are accumulating. > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Dear Ravindramaniji! You kind of went off on a tangent! None of us were really interested in prying into your income tax statement! This obsessive insistence on the part of some otherwise beautiful souls really amazes me more than it amuses me :-( It is as if there is some guilt associated with associating astrological service with money -- just another form of energy exchange! Ludicrously, and pardon me for using strong language -- it is perfectly okay to tell the client that if they wish they can leave dakshina or alms but at the same time maintain that " PANDITJEE " does not believe in money exchange and shall not touch money if offered! His assistant, however, may accept same! It is 2010, in case the current calendar has not arrived, SIR! The world is aflame -- it is time that all those ancient dramas were put to rest and we wake up to modern reality! Including ASTROLOGY! If you are independently wealthy or for religious reasons have taken a vow of poverty and wish to offer astrological advice for free, please go ahead and do that but please do not presume to become the moral conscience for the rest of the world of Jyotishis! And you can do it very simply, let me add :-) Put your money where your mouth is! Flood the internet reality with FREE horoscope readings like Prashant, Vattam, Haresh,and many others do and some of us have done (there are forums created for free readings that still exist archived on !) STOP RIDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS, JUST BECAUSE THEY LET YOU RIDE! Start WALKING on YOUR OWN TWO LEGS ;-) Please feel free to report me to Rao jee if you feel harassed! Rohiniranjan , " C.S. Ravindramani " <ravindramani wrote: > > Shri Rohini ji, > > > > Shri K.N. Rao elaborated further, ‘’I ask you, dear students learn > astrology with a yearning to understand the essence of astrology and > practice the astrology with the same spirit, then this astrology would > become a “para vidya†and a “way of Sadhana†for you and lead you to the > doorstep that what a person should really seek in his lifeâ€. You may > recall, years ago, he wrote in this very Group, how he categorizes his > students in four categories. > > > > Honestly, I practice astrology with the same spirit that the way he > emphasizes. I am fortunate, the Almighty showered his blessings, I have a > livelihood to support my family and that is more than sufficient to take > care of my bare needs. Astrology shall never be a livelihood for me in any > given circumstance. > > > > I would prefer to remain silent and a witness. They know pretty well what > “They†are liquidating and in turn what “They†are accumulating. > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:02 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vaniwrote: > > > > > > > RR's response after Ravindramanijee's .... > > ========================= > > Internet has done more harm to astrology, ohh my God, there are 32 ways to > > frighten and cheat a layman in the name of Rahu & Ketu. Yesterday, after a > > long time, I was happen to hear Shri K.N. Rao, speaking at the inaguration > > of new batches of astrology course at BVB, Delhi, remarked the conditon of > > astrology is being practised that " if Rahu, Saturn and Mars are not > > available in a chart, the so called astrologers would die of starvation " , > > it > > is the plight of astrology now..... > > > > C.S. Ravindramani > > ============================ > > Dear CSR_jee, > > > > Yes -- it is!:-( > > > > Was this situation created by nativities or astrologers or both? > > > > I think the answer is obvious! > > > > What do we do next? > > > > The seekers are too wrapped in their miseries and are desperate to get some > > relief, some respite from the malady of karma! > > > > The 'healers' are in a better place to effect a change! > > > > For those that they serve and thereby serve themselves! > > > > We look upon YOU Ravindramani jee as our leader! > > > > How do you think this situation can be resolved? How may we bring JYOTISH > > back to HER THRONE? > > > > If your heart remains SILENT, please feel free to seek the advice of your > > TEACHER. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Dear Sir, Sorry, you misunderstood. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 1:57 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vaniwrote: > > > Dear CSR jee, > > I hoped that Gopijee's message would be sans the strange characters - > 'noise' that seems to have become a signature lately ;-) > > Since I have always admired KNR, for a variety of reasons since the first > day I heard of him back in early 90's -- I shall make the effort to repost > your message without the noisy punctuation that your email program you use > and try to see if I can understand your message ;-) <<for my response, > please move beyond your punctuation corrected PIECE! :-) > > > ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > > Shri K.N. Rao elaborated further, I ask you, dear students learn > > astrology with a yearning to understand the essence of astrology and > > practice the astrology with the same spirit, then this astrology would > > become a para vidya and a œway of Sadhana for you and lead you to the > > > doorstep that what a person should really seek in his life. You may > > recall, years ago, he wrote in this very Group, how he categorizes his > > students in four categories. > > > > > > > > Honestly, I practice astrology with the same spirit that the way he > > emphasizes. I am fortunate, the Almighty showered his blessings, I have a > > livelihood to support my family and that is more than sufficient to take > > care of my bare needs. Astrology shall never be a livelihood for me in > any > > given circumstance. > > > > > > > > I would prefer to remain silent and a witness. They know pretty well what > > They are liquidating and in turn what They are accumulating. > > > > > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > > Dear Ravindramaniji! > > You kind of went off on a tangent! None of us were really interested in > prying into your income tax statement! This obsessive insistence on the part > of some otherwise beautiful souls really amazes me more than it amuses me > :-( > > It is as if there is some guilt associated with associating astrological > service with money -- just another form of energy exchange! > > Ludicrously, and pardon me for using strong language -- it is perfectly > okay to tell the client that if they wish they can leave dakshina or alms > but at the same time maintain that " PANDITJEE " does not believe in money > exchange and shall not touch money if offered! His assistant, however, may > accept same! > > It is 2010, in case the current calendar has not arrived, SIR! > > The world is aflame -- it is time that all those ancient dramas were put to > rest and we wake up to modern reality! > > Including ASTROLOGY! > > If you are independently wealthy or for religious reasons have taken a vow > of poverty and wish to offer astrological advice for free, please go ahead > and do that but please do not presume to become the moral conscience for the > rest of the world of Jyotishis! > > And you can do it very simply, let me add :-) > > Put your money where your mouth is! Flood the internet reality with FREE > horoscope readings like Prashant, Vattam, Haresh,and many others do and some > of us have done (there are forums created for free readings that still exist > archived on !) > > STOP RIDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS, JUST BECAUSE THEY LET YOU RIDE! > > Start WALKING on YOUR OWN TWO LEGS ;-) > > Please feel free to report me to Rao jee if you feel harassed! > > Rohiniranjan > > > <%40>, > " C.S. Ravindramani " <ravindramani wrote: > > > > Shri Rohini ji, > > > > > > > > Shri K.N. Rao elaborated further, ‘’I ask you, dear students learn > > > astrology with a yearning to understand the essence of astrology and > > practice the astrology with the same spirit, then this astrology would > > become a “para vidya†and a “way of Sadhana†for you and lead you > to the > > doorstep that what a person should really seek in his life†. You may > > > recall, years ago, he wrote in this very Group, how he categorizes his > > students in four categories. > > > > > > > > Honestly, I practice astrology with the same spirit that the way he > > emphasizes. I am fortunate, the Almighty showered his blessings, I have a > > livelihood to support my family and that is more than sufficient to take > > care of my bare needs. Astrology shall never be a livelihood for me in > any > > given circumstance. > > > > > > > > I would prefer to remain silent and a witness. They know pretty well what > > “They†are liquidating and in turn what “They†are accumulating. > > > > > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:02 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vaniwrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR's response after Ravindramanijee's .... > > > ========================= > > > Internet has done more harm to astrology, ohh my God, there are 32 ways > to > > > frighten and cheat a layman in the name of Rahu & Ketu. Yesterday, > after a > > > long time, I was happen to hear Shri K.N. Rao, speaking at the > inaguration > > > of new batches of astrology course at BVB, Delhi, remarked the conditon > of > > > astrology is being practised that " if Rahu, Saturn and Mars are not > > > available in a chart, the so called astrologers would die of > starvation " , > > > it > > > is the plight of astrology now..... > > > > > > C.S. Ravindramani > > > ============================ > > > Dear CSR_jee, > > > > > > Yes -- it is!:-( > > > > > > Was this situation created by nativities or astrologers or both? > > > > > > I think the answer is obvious! > > > > > > What do we do next? > > > > > > The seekers are too wrapped in their miseries and are desperate to get > some > > > relief, some respite from the malady of karma! > > > > > > The 'healers' are in a better place to effect a change! > > > > > > For those that they serve and thereby serve themselves! > > > > > > We look upon YOU Ravindramani jee as our leader! > > > > > > How do you think this situation can be resolved? How may we bring > JYOTISH > > > back to HER THRONE? > > > > > > If your heart remains SILENT, please feel free to seek the advice of > your > > > TEACHER. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 No I did not misunderstand -- Ravindramani jee :-) Trust me! Now that you have gotten rid of the noisy punctuation marks (last message had none!), what is you position on KalSarpa Yoga? I think KNR does not believe in KSY and has written so, or so I have been told by one of his students. What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! Regards, Rohiniranjan , " C.S. Ravindramani " <ravindramani wrote: > > Dear Sir, > > Sorry, you misunderstood. > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > > > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 1:57 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vaniwrote: > > > > > > > Dear CSR jee, > > > > I hoped that Gopijee's message would be sans the strange characters - > > 'noise' that seems to have become a signature lately ;-) > > > > Since I have always admired KNR, for a variety of reasons since the first > > day I heard of him back in early 90's -- I shall make the effort to repost > > your message without the noisy punctuation that your email program you use > > and try to see if I can understand your message ;-) <<for my response, > > please move beyond your punctuation corrected PIECE! :-) > > > > > > ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > > > > Shri K.N. Rao elaborated further, I ask you, dear students learn > > > astrology with a yearning to understand the essence of astrology and > > > practice the astrology with the same spirit, then this astrology would > > > become a para vidya and a Š" way of Sadhana for you and lead you to the > > > > > doorstep that what a person should really seek in his life. You may > > > recall, years ago, he wrote in this very Group, how he categorizes his > > > students in four categories. > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I practice astrology with the same spirit that the way he > > > emphasizes. I am fortunate, the Almighty showered his blessings, I have a > > > livelihood to support my family and that is more than sufficient to take > > > care of my bare needs. Astrology shall never be a livelihood for me in > > any > > > given circumstance. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would prefer to remain silent and a witness. They know pretty well what > > > They are liquidating and in turn what They are accumulating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > > |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > > > > Dear Ravindramaniji! > > > > You kind of went off on a tangent! None of us were really interested in > > prying into your income tax statement! This obsessive insistence on the part > > of some otherwise beautiful souls really amazes me more than it amuses me > > :-( > > > > It is as if there is some guilt associated with associating astrological > > service with money -- just another form of energy exchange! > > > > Ludicrously, and pardon me for using strong language -- it is perfectly > > okay to tell the client that if they wish they can leave dakshina or alms > > but at the same time maintain that " PANDITJEE " does not believe in money > > exchange and shall not touch money if offered! His assistant, however, may > > accept same! > > > > It is 2010, in case the current calendar has not arrived, SIR! > > > > The world is aflame -- it is time that all those ancient dramas were put to > > rest and we wake up to modern reality! > > > > Including ASTROLOGY! > > > > If you are independently wealthy or for religious reasons have taken a vow > > of poverty and wish to offer astrological advice for free, please go ahead > > and do that but please do not presume to become the moral conscience for the > > rest of the world of Jyotishis! > > > > And you can do it very simply, let me add :-) > > > > Put your money where your mouth is! Flood the internet reality with FREE > > horoscope readings like Prashant, Vattam, Haresh,and many others do and some > > of us have done (there are forums created for free readings that still exist > > archived on !) > > > > STOP RIDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS, JUST BECAUSE THEY LET YOU RIDE! > > > > Start WALKING on YOUR OWN TWO LEGS ;-) > > > > Please feel free to report me to Rao jee if you feel harassed! > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > <%40>, > > " C.S. Ravindramani " <ravindramani@> wrote: > > > > > > Shri Rohini ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri K.N. Rao elaborated further, ‘’I ask you, dear students learn > > > > > astrology with a yearning to understand the essence of astrology and > > > practice the astrology with the same spirit, then this astrology would > > > become a  " para vidya†and a  " way of Sadhana†for you and lead you > > to the > > > doorstep that what a person should really seek in his life†. You may > > > > > recall, years ago, he wrote in this very Group, how he categorizes his > > > students in four categories. > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I practice astrology with the same spirit that the way he > > > emphasizes. I am fortunate, the Almighty showered his blessings, I have a > > > livelihood to support my family and that is more than sufficient to take > > > care of my bare needs. Astrology shall never be a livelihood for me in > > any > > > given circumstance. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would prefer to remain silent and a witness. They know pretty well what > > >  " They†are liquidating and in turn what  " They†are accumulating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:02 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR's response after Ravindramanijee's .... > > > > ========================= > > > > Internet has done more harm to astrology, ohh my God, there are 32 ways > > to > > > > frighten and cheat a layman in the name of Rahu & Ketu. Yesterday, > > after a > > > > long time, I was happen to hear Shri K.N. Rao, speaking at the > > inaguration > > > > of new batches of astrology course at BVB, Delhi, remarked the conditon > > of > > > > astrology is being practised that " if Rahu, Saturn and Mars are not > > > > available in a chart, the so called astrologers would die of > > starvation " , > > > > it > > > > is the plight of astrology now..... > > > > > > > > C.S. Ravindramani > > > > ============================ > > > > Dear CSR_jee, > > > > > > > > Yes -- it is!:-( > > > > > > > > Was this situation created by nativities or astrologers or both? > > > > > > > > I think the answer is obvious! > > > > > > > > What do we do next? > > > > > > > > The seekers are too wrapped in their miseries and are desperate to get > > some > > > > relief, some respite from the malady of karma! > > > > > > > > The 'healers' are in a better place to effect a change! > > > > > > > > For those that they serve and thereby serve themselves! > > > > > > > > We look upon YOU Ravindramani jee as our leader! > > > > > > > > How do you think this situation can be resolved? How may we bring > > JYOTISH > > > > back to HER THRONE? > > > > > > > > If your heart remains SILENT, please feel free to seek the advice of > > your > > > > TEACHER. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Saheb, I do not consider this KSY whether it is a standard one as you call or any other type, in my chart reading. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vaniwrote: > What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? > > The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Please elaborate :-) why not? , " C.S. Ravindramani " <ravindramani wrote: > > Saheb, > > I do not consider this KSY whether it is a standard one as you call or any > other type, in my chart reading. > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vaniwrote: > > > What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? > > > > The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Dear Friends, Â Before we get into another heated argument on KSY, lets first try to find out whether this has been mentioned in BPHS, Phaladeepika, Saravali, Sarvarth Chintamani, Maansagari, Jataka Tattvam, Jataka Bharnam, Jataka Alankara et al. Â regards, Â Manoj --- On Sun, 1/10/10, C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani wrote: C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani Re: Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani Sunday, January 10, 2010, 3:48 PM Â Saheb, I do not consider this KSY whether it is a standard one as you call or any other type, in my chart reading. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com>wrote: > What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? > > The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I think KSY was a gift to Jyotish from some more recent text from South India. Decades ago, there was an article in Astrological Magazine, the only one which tried to look at the origins. Manoj, you are using the same tired argument that is used often by people for whom jyotish is a religion! If it ain't in so called Classics, including some that exist in a dozen versions (!) then it must not be considered sacred enough to be brought into the TEMPLE of Jyotish! I suppose by that token such individuals would also toss out the entire KP and similar systems that were not blessed by Parashara or even mentioned in any of the dozen versions of BPHS (including the web versions ;-) that some modern jyotishis have cut their teeth upon! By that token, Lal Kitab would be hocus pocus according to these modern Priests of the Temple of Jyotish -- and NADI System of astrology is just a bowl of cotton candy! ;-) Rohiniranjan , Manoj Kumar <mouji99 wrote: > > Dear Friends, > Â > Before we get into another heated argument on KSY, lets first try to find out whether this has been mentioned in BPHS, Phaladeepika, Saravali, Sarvarth Chintamani, Maansagari, Jataka Tattvam, Jataka Bharnam, Jataka Alankara et al. > Â > regards, > Â > Manoj > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani wrote: > > > C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani > Re: Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > > Sunday, January 10, 2010, 3:48 PM > > > Â > > > > Saheb, > > I do not consider this KSY whether it is a standard one as you call or any > other type, in my chart reading. > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com>wrote: > > > What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? > > > > The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Dear Rohini ji, Ultimtely it boils down to whose shirt is whiter, yours or mine. So obviously it has to be mine because I am wearing it. Going by your arguments I think, Nadi is a system of astrology, KP is a system of astrology, Bhrigu is a system of astrology so can you equate KSY as a system of astrology? regards, Manoj ________________________________ rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani Tue, January 12, 2010 6:32:01 AM Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani  I think KSY was a gift to Jyotish from some more recent text from South India. Decades ago, there was an article in Astrological Magazine, the only one which tried to look at the origins. Manoj, you are using the same tired argument that is used often by people for whom jyotish is a religion! If it ain't in so called Classics, including some that exist in a dozen versions (!) then it must not be considered sacred enough to be brought into the TEMPLE of Jyotish! I suppose by that token such individuals would also toss out the entire KP and similar systems that were not blessed by Parashara or even mentioned in any of the dozen versions of BPHS (including the web versions ;-) that some modern jyotishis have cut their teeth upon! By that token, Lal Kitab would be hocus pocus according to these modern Priests of the Temple of Jyotish -- and NADI System of astrology is just a bowl of cotton candy! ;-) Rohiniranjan , Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > wrote: > > Dear Friends, >  > Before we get into another heated argument on KSY, lets first try to find out whether this has been mentioned in BPHS, Phaladeepika, Saravali, Sarvarth Chintamani, Maansagari, Jataka Tattvam, Jataka Bharnam, Jataka Alankara et al. >  > regards, >  > Manoj > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani@ ...> wrote: > > > C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani@ ...> > Re: Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > > Sunday, January 10, 2010, 3:48 PM > > >  > > > > Saheb, > > I do not consider this KSY whether it is a standard one as you call or any > other type, in my chart reading. > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: > > > What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? > > > > The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 The basic principles in KP and Lal Kitab had not been changed and if one is well read in Astrology he can find the fundamentals behind the two and can trace the roots in BPHS .Though I personally do not appreciate the remedies part of Lal Kitab , but most of the consultants I receive are Marred by Kal Sarpa Dosha and Gand Mool Parihara fever. Nadi astrology on the other hand too is extension of basic principles. Astrology is a real science every thing which you read if can not apply with the ground realities need not favored and new concepts are welcome if they match with ground realities. Can any body explain that what he had seen in some Kaal Sarpa Dosha and how the person was benefited by this finding. With Best wishes, Inder Jit Sahni On Behalf Of rohinicrystal 12 January, 2010 6:32 AM Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani I think KSY was a gift to Jyotish from some more recent text from South India. Decades ago, there was an article in Astrological Magazine, the only one which tried to look at the origins. Manoj, you are using the same tired argument that is used often by people for whom jyotish is a religion! If it ain't in so called Classics, including some that exist in a dozen versions (!) then it must not be considered sacred enough to be brought into the TEMPLE of Jyotish! I suppose by that token such individuals would also toss out the entire KP and similar systems that were not blessed by Parashara or even mentioned in any of the dozen versions of BPHS (including the web versions ;-) that some modern jyotishis have cut their teeth upon! By that token, Lal Kitab would be hocus pocus according to these modern Priests of the Temple of Jyotish -- and NADI System of astrology is just a bowl of cotton candy! ;-) Rohiniranjan <%40> , Manoj Kumar <mouji99 wrote: > > Dear Friends, > Â > Before we get into another heated argument on KSY, lets first try to find out whether this has been mentioned in BPHS, Phaladeepika, Saravali, Sarvarth Chintamani, Maansagari, Jataka Tattvam, Jataka Bharnam, Jataka Alankara et al. > Â > regards, > Â > Manoj > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani wrote: > > > C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani > Re: Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > <%40> > Sunday, January 10, 2010, 3:48 PM > > > Â > > > > Saheb, > > I do not consider this KSY whether it is a standard one as you call or any > other type, in my chart reading. > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com>wrote: > > > What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? > > > > The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Read the thread calmly and see if I was advocating KSY or questioning it :-) RR_, , Manoj Kumar <mouji99 wrote: > > Dear Rohini ji, > > Ultimtely it boils down to whose shirt is whiter, yours or mine. So obviously it has to be mine because I am wearing it. > > Going by your arguments I think, Nadi is a system of astrology, KP is a system of astrology, Bhrigu is a system of astrology so can you equate KSY as a system of astrology? > > regards, > > Manoj > > > > > ________________________________ > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani > > Tue, January 12, 2010 6:32:01 AM > Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > >  > I think KSY was a gift to Jyotish from some more recent text from South India. Decades ago, there was an article in Astrological Magazine, the only one which tried to look at the origins. > > Manoj, you are using the same tired argument that is used often by people for whom jyotish is a religion! If it ain't in so called Classics, including some that exist in a dozen versions (!) then it must not be considered sacred enough to be brought into the TEMPLE of Jyotish! > > I suppose by that token such individuals would also toss out the entire KP and similar systems that were not blessed by Parashara or even mentioned in any of the dozen versions of BPHS (including the web versions ;-) that some modern jyotishis have cut their teeth upon! > > By that token, Lal Kitab would be hocus pocus according to these modern Priests of the Temple of Jyotish -- and NADI System of astrology is just a bowl of cotton candy! > > ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > > , Manoj Kumar <mouji99@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Friends, > >  > > Before we get into another heated argument on KSY, lets first try to find out whether this has been mentioned in BPHS, Phaladeepika, Saravali, Sarvarth Chintamani, Maansagari, Jataka Tattvam, Jataka Bharnam, Jataka Alankara et al. > >  > > regards, > >  > > Manoj > > > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani@ ...> > > Re: Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > > > > Sunday, January 10, 2010, 3:48 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Saheb, > > > > I do not consider this KSY whether it is a standard one as you call or any > > other type, in my chart reading. > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani > > > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? > > > > > > The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Inder jee! Long time no exchange :-) Nice to see your posting!! Very interesting observation that you share with us! KSY/GMP and The Red Book! (NB: GMP in a VERY different context (Health products) stands for Good Manufacturing Practices) The two (KP etc) are relatively NEW! Give them a few centuries (unless the 2012 does us all in! NOT!!) and you will see changes! KP when Krishnamurthi left the world had Sign-star-sub but now it has finer sub-subs! Perfectly logical since it is driven by Parashara in a sense, but I wonder why KSK did not go beyond S-S-S? Now I hear that there is a " new Krishnamurthy ayanamsha " . The original one was ONLY 6 minutes away from Lahiri's CPA. Not sure which way is this new and improved KSK ayanamsha moving. Like a binary reality it has only two possibilities! Less or More from original KSK ayanamsha! Happy New Year! It is still not too late to make good wishes to old friends :-) Rohiniranjan , " Inder Jit Sahni " <inder_jit_sahni wrote: > > The basic principles in KP and Lal Kitab had not been changed and if one is > well read in Astrology he can find the fundamentals behind the two and can > trace the roots in BPHS .Though I personally do not appreciate the remedies > part of Lal Kitab , but most of the consultants I receive are Marred by Kal > Sarpa Dosha and Gand Mool Parihara fever. > > Nadi astrology on the other hand too is extension of basic principles. > > Astrology is a real science every thing which you read if can not apply with > the ground realities need not favored and new concepts are welcome if they > match with ground realities. > > Can any body explain that what he had seen in some Kaal Sarpa Dosha and how > the person was benefited by this finding. > > With Best wishes, > > Inder Jit Sahni > > > > On > Behalf Of rohinicrystal > 12 January, 2010 6:32 AM > > Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > > > > > > I think KSY was a gift to Jyotish from some more recent text from South > India. Decades ago, there was an article in Astrological Magazine, the only > one which tried to look at the origins. > > Manoj, you are using the same tired argument that is used often by people > for whom jyotish is a religion! If it ain't in so called Classics, including > some that exist in a dozen versions (!) then it must not be considered > sacred enough to be brought into the TEMPLE of Jyotish! > > I suppose by that token such individuals would also toss out the entire KP > and similar systems that were not blessed by Parashara or even mentioned in > any of the dozen versions of BPHS (including the web versions ;-) that some > modern jyotishis have cut their teeth upon! > > By that token, Lal Kitab would be hocus pocus according to these modern > Priests of the Temple of Jyotish -- and NADI System of astrology is just a > bowl of cotton candy! > > ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > > <%40> > , Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote: > > > > Dear Friends, > > Â > > Before we get into another heated argument on KSY, lets first try to find > out whether this has been mentioned in BPHS, Phaladeepika, Saravali, > Sarvarth Chintamani, Maansagari, Jataka Tattvam, Jataka Bharnam, Jataka > Alankara et al. > > Â > > regards, > > Â > > Manoj > > > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani@> wrote: > > > > > > C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani@> > > Re: Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > > <%40> > > Sunday, January 10, 2010, 3:48 PM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > Saheb, > > > > I do not consider this KSY whether it is a standard one as you call or any > > other type, in my chart reading. > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani > > > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > hotmail.com>wrote: > > > > > What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? > > > > > > The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 ||Jai Ramakrishna|| Dear RRji & members, This seems to be an old feud amongst fellow astro-members in groups & fellow astrologers in reality debating on KSY. Perhaps KSY says now " Love me, or hate me...you can't ignore me!!! " Thank you, Gaurav. , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Inder jee! > > Long time no exchange :-) Nice to see your posting!! > > Very interesting observation that you share with us! KSY/GMP and The Red Book! (NB: GMP in a VERY different context (Health products) stands for Good Manufacturing Practices) > > The two (KP etc) are relatively NEW! Give them a few centuries (unless the 2012 does us all in! NOT!!) and you will see changes! > > KP when Krishnamurthi left the world had Sign-star-sub but now it has finer sub-subs! Perfectly logical since it is driven by Parashara in a sense, but I wonder why KSK did not go beyond S-S-S? > > Now I hear that there is a " new Krishnamurthy ayanamsha " . The original one was ONLY 6 minutes away from Lahiri's CPA. Not sure which way is this new and improved KSK ayanamsha moving. Like a binary reality it has only two possibilities! Less or More from original KSK ayanamsha! > > Happy New Year! It is still not too late to make good wishes to old friends :-) > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , " Inder Jit Sahni " <inder_jit_sahni@> wrote: > > > > The basic principles in KP and Lal Kitab had not been changed and if one is > > well read in Astrology he can find the fundamentals behind the two and can > > trace the roots in BPHS .Though I personally do not appreciate the remedies > > part of Lal Kitab , but most of the consultants I receive are Marred by Kal > > Sarpa Dosha and Gand Mool Parihara fever. > > > > Nadi astrology on the other hand too is extension of basic principles. > > > > Astrology is a real science every thing which you read if can not apply with > > the ground realities need not favored and new concepts are welcome if they > > match with ground realities. > > > > Can any body explain that what he had seen in some Kaal Sarpa Dosha and how > > the person was benefited by this finding. > > > > With Best wishes, > > > > Inder Jit Sahni > > > > > > > > On > > Behalf Of rohinicrystal > > 12 January, 2010 6:32 AM > > > > Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > > > > > > > > > > > > I think KSY was a gift to Jyotish from some more recent text from South > > India. Decades ago, there was an article in Astrological Magazine, the only > > one which tried to look at the origins. > > > > Manoj, you are using the same tired argument that is used often by people > > for whom jyotish is a religion! If it ain't in so called Classics, including > > some that exist in a dozen versions (!) then it must not be considered > > sacred enough to be brought into the TEMPLE of Jyotish! > > > > I suppose by that token such individuals would also toss out the entire KP > > and similar systems that were not blessed by Parashara or even mentioned in > > any of the dozen versions of BPHS (including the web versions ;-) that some > > modern jyotishis have cut their teeth upon! > > > > By that token, Lal Kitab would be hocus pocus according to these modern > > Priests of the Temple of Jyotish -- and NADI System of astrology is just a > > bowl of cotton candy! > > > > ;-) > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > <%40> > > , Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > Â > > > Before we get into another heated argument on KSY, lets first try to find > > out whether this has been mentioned in BPHS, Phaladeepika, Saravali, > > Sarvarth Chintamani, Maansagari, Jataka Tattvam, Jataka Bharnam, Jataka > > Alankara et al. > > > Â > > > regards, > > > Â > > > Manoj > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani@> > > > Re: Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > > > <%40> > > > Sunday, January 10, 2010, 3:48 PM > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > Saheb, > > > > > > I do not consider this KSY whether it is a standard one as you call or any > > > other type, in my chart reading. > > > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > hotmail.com>wrote: > > > > > > > What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? > > > > > > > > The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Feud? What is that? Please share your personal experiences Gaurav jee! Is planetary superconjunction forthcoming? Inderjee and now Gaurav jee ;-) It is only 2010 and has just begun!! RR_, , " " <gaurav.ghosh wrote: > > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > Dear RRji & members, > This seems to be an old feud amongst fellow astro-members in groups & fellow astrologers in reality debating on KSY. > Perhaps KSY says now " Love me, or hate me...you can't ignore me!!! " > Thank you, > Gaurav. > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Inder jee! > > > > Long time no exchange :-) Nice to see your posting!! > > > > Very interesting observation that you share with us! KSY/GMP and The Red Book! (NB: GMP in a VERY different context (Health products) stands for Good Manufacturing Practices) > > > > The two (KP etc) are relatively NEW! Give them a few centuries (unless the 2012 does us all in! NOT!!) and you will see changes! > > > > KP when Krishnamurthi left the world had Sign-star-sub but now it has finer sub-subs! Perfectly logical since it is driven by Parashara in a sense, but I wonder why KSK did not go beyond S-S-S? > > > > Now I hear that there is a " new Krishnamurthy ayanamsha " . The original one was ONLY 6 minutes away from Lahiri's CPA. Not sure which way is this new and improved KSK ayanamsha moving. Like a binary reality it has only two possibilities! Less or More from original KSK ayanamsha! > > > > Happy New Year! It is still not too late to make good wishes to old friends :-) > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Inder Jit Sahni " <inder_jit_sahni@> wrote: > > > > > > The basic principles in KP and Lal Kitab had not been changed and if one is > > > well read in Astrology he can find the fundamentals behind the two and can > > > trace the roots in BPHS .Though I personally do not appreciate the remedies > > > part of Lal Kitab , but most of the consultants I receive are Marred by Kal > > > Sarpa Dosha and Gand Mool Parihara fever. > > > > > > Nadi astrology on the other hand too is extension of basic principles. > > > > > > Astrology is a real science every thing which you read if can not apply with > > > the ground realities need not favored and new concepts are welcome if they > > > match with ground realities. > > > > > > Can any body explain that what he had seen in some Kaal Sarpa Dosha and how > > > the person was benefited by this finding. > > > > > > With Best wishes, > > > > > > Inder Jit Sahni > > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > Behalf Of rohinicrystal > > > 12 January, 2010 6:32 AM > > > > > > Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think KSY was a gift to Jyotish from some more recent text from South > > > India. Decades ago, there was an article in Astrological Magazine, the only > > > one which tried to look at the origins. > > > > > > Manoj, you are using the same tired argument that is used often by people > > > for whom jyotish is a religion! If it ain't in so called Classics, including > > > some that exist in a dozen versions (!) then it must not be considered > > > sacred enough to be brought into the TEMPLE of Jyotish! > > > > > > I suppose by that token such individuals would also toss out the entire KP > > > and similar systems that were not blessed by Parashara or even mentioned in > > > any of the dozen versions of BPHS (including the web versions ;-) that some > > > modern jyotishis have cut their teeth upon! > > > > > > By that token, Lal Kitab would be hocus pocus according to these modern > > > Priests of the Temple of Jyotish -- and NADI System of astrology is just a > > > bowl of cotton candy! > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > <%40> > > > , Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > Â > > > > Before we get into another heated argument on KSY, lets first try to find > > > out whether this has been mentioned in BPHS, Phaladeepika, Saravali, > > > Sarvarth Chintamani, Maansagari, Jataka Tattvam, Jataka Bharnam, Jataka > > > Alankara et al. > > > > Â > > > > regards, > > > > Â > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > C.S. Ravindramani <ravindramani@> > > > > Re: Re: Kaal Sarp Yog? #25656 Ravindramani > > > > <%40> > > > > Sunday, January 10, 2010, 3:48 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saheb, > > > > > > > > I do not consider this KSY whether it is a standard one as you call or any > > > > other type, in my chart reading. > > > > > > > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > hotmail.com>wrote: > > > > > > > > > What has been your personal experience regarding KSY? > > > > > > > > > > The standard kind! We will worry about the 32 flavours later! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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