Non-existence (?) of solar months in the Vedas.

[Guest guest]

Shri Hari Malla ji,

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

The following quote from your message #275 in Parvasudhar2065 is very loud

and clear that there are no solar months as per the Vedas or the Vedanga

Jyotisha according to you but only lunar months.

 

In fact, to the best of my knowledge, that has been your stand throughout

that there were no solar months in the Vedas and the VJ etc.

 

 

 

By implication, it means that there never could be any solar Samkrantis as

per the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.

 

Naturally, if there were no Samkrantis i.e Solar transit from one month to

another, there was no question of the solar ingress from one Rashi to

another.

 

There is also no question of there having been any controversy about the so

called nirayana or sayana then since that controversy is applicable to Mesha

etc. Rashis only.

 

Thus according to you, anybody celebrating any solar month i.e. Samkranti,

is going against the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. etc.

 

 

 

Surprisingly, you have made the following statement in your message #371 of

the same group to Shri Sammod Acharya:

 

" I am surprised that you are not conscious of Bisket jatra of Bhaktapur,

which is celebrated on nirayan Mesh sankranti.

Also please know that 'Vedasingh' actually also means nirayan mesh

sankranti, because on Mesh sankranti day the sun falls on the 'horn of the

Ram' represented

by the group of stars forming the Mesha rashi. If you refer to the story of

Vedasingh, it explains how the ram was changing form and giving much trouble

to

the prince, who cut the head of the Ram and placed it there, indicating that

because the ram was shifting position due to shift of sayan sankranti, the

nirayan

sankranti was 'fixed' as the time of celebration. The act of 'fixing' is the

act of cutting the head of the ram and setting there at Veda singh "

 

 

 

Now will you please make your stand clear that if there were no solar months

in the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. according to you, how could then

there be Mesha etc. samkrantis and that also

 

So called nirayana ones! Thus don't you think that it is your sacred duty

to stop the general public of Nepal from celebrating any Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Samkranti, whether so called nirayana or so called sayana?

 

Don't you think that by not doing so you are not guiding even your own

brethren from Nepal on the right track, but by pleading for some anti-Vedic

plus/minus fifteen degrees ayanamsha you are actually misguiding them?

 

I am copying below both your posts for " ready reference " .

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

A K Kaul

 

*** ***** ****

 

#375Re: Fwd: Solar months vis-a-vis lunar months of the Vedic calendar.

 

 

 

Dear Shri Sammodji,

Please reply to shri Kaulji how the vedic months were lunar and not solar.

My

simple conclusion is that in the sixth verse of Yajur vedanga jyotish, the

mention of 'Tapa sukla' itself is proof that tapa is a lunar month which has

a

'sukla (pakshya)'. Please give further proofs and elaborate. Thanks,

Hari Malla

 

#371

 

Re: Fwd: this for your attention

 

 

 

Dear Sammod ji,

Namaskar! the folwoing stement wasmade by shri AK Kaulji, Quoting your

previous

mail.

 

<I am sure you must have read the post of Shri Sammod Acharya in the

> Hinducaendar forum that in Kathmandu, they do not celebrate any (solar)

> Samkrantis even today! That itself means that the only " Hindu country " of

> yesteryears too had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. rshis, leave alone

> Phalita Jyotisha!>

 

I am surprised that you are not conscious of Bisket jatra of Bhaktapur,

which is

celebrated on nirayan Mesh sankranti.

Also please know that 'Vedasingh' acutally also means nirayan mesh

sankranti,

because on Mesh sankranti day the sun falls on the 'horn of the Ram'

represented

by the group of stars forming the Mesha rashi. If you refer to the story of

Vedasingh, it explains how the ram was changing form and giving much trouble

to

the prince, who cut the head of the Ram and placed it there,indicating that

because the ram was shifting postion due to shift of sayan sankranti,the

nirayan

sankranti was 'fixed' as the time of celebration. The act of 'fixing' is the

act

of cutting the head of the ram and setting there at Veda singh.

What I find it difficult to understand is why you forget the classic 6th

sloka

of Yajur vedanga jyotish and think the vedanga jyotish is sayan when it

clearly

spells out the sun in dhanistha position as the nirayn uttaryan date. This

has

also been confirmed by Brahmihir as late as 6th century AD.? How can the

same

postiion of the sun remain as uttarayan for 1700 years or more and be also

be

sayan. I feel you have misinterpreted Vedanga jyotish to suit your own

fanciful

sayan system.

Please consider the above pooints.

Regards,

Hari Malla

 

parvasudhar2065

<parvasudhar2065/post?postID=Sffva1WzQkOrOT8f5

Yx9VbS-0K2153vcZJ8rLEDiJI9G1_C-z8BHcVQPs5ysfIv95azQ47M4B-SmBrSZ00i8nEGylNEA>

, " hari " <harimalla wrote:

>

> HinduCalendar

<parvasudhar2065/post?postID=hVbA-oRgytYEh5_5-

j-YkUKe_EkgXpcpyOuF5Uyz2OsGVYLKKFR5SytPX5vckXxkpuw8STqVfx06TeKSapyPhmOi5hTx>

, " jyotirved . " <jyotirved@> wrote:

>

> Dear Shri T. V. Sivaramanji,

> Namaskar!

> There are quite a few " scholars " according to whom the real Vamadevas (and

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote:

 

Dear shri Kaulji,

Namaskar! Thank you for your quory about my stand on lunar months of vedanga

jyotish and also sankrantis. I briefly summarise what I know on these matters.

1) Vedanga jyotish used mainly lunar months for celebrations with both tropical

and semi sidereal purpose.Tapa is tropical but since the same month is also

called as maagha,it is semi-sidereal too.Thus tapa sukla pratipada was the same

as magha sukla pratipada. It was the lunar uttarayan date and also starting date

of the lunar year and the lunar five year yuga. This lunar date was the main

celebration of the uttrayan and the new year.The adhimases were held at summer

solstice and winter solstice alternately every 2.5 years. In five years it

completed the cycle.But this system was not so accurate and every 38 years one

adhimas was to be given up for more accuracy.

The solar five year started from the solar uttrayan position with the sun in

dhanistha position with 366 days of the year for five years. After five years it

started from sun in dhanistha again in the next five year yuga.The solar year

was second priority and thus was approximate,gaining four days on the last year

of the five year yuga.

From the above one cannot say that nirayan sankranti concept was completely

absent in vedanga jyotish.At least the start of the five year did have a solar

nirayan uttarayan sankranti with the sun in dhanistha position.

2)The reason for the change of system from vedanga jyotish to sidhanta jyotish

was essential because a time came around the third century AD, when the lunar

uttarayan as maagha sukla pratipada was no more valid, when the actual

uttarayan stopped touching maagha sukla pratipada. The actual uttaryan did

continue to touch poush purnima. Thus in the sidhanta period, the nirayan

uttarayan sankranti was shifted from the sun in dhanistha position to makar

sankranti and the uttarayan tithi was shifted to poush purnima from maagha sukla

pratipada. This is also dealt by Shankar BK. Dixit.

Since they shifted the tithi by 15 days, it was not necessary to shift the name

of the nakshyatras. This was possible just by shifting from the Amanta system to

the purnimanta system, with the fullmooons attached to the same nakshyatras in

both the cases.

 

3)The twelve sankrantis which were addded during the sidhanta period did help

the accuracy of the adhimases. Instead of holding adhimases every 30 months

(inacccurately), it was held more accurately in about 32.5 months with the help

of the 12 sankrantis. This was another improvement done during the sidhanta

period in addition to the accuracy of uttaryan date as poush purnima instead of

maagh sukla pratipada.

Thus I find no reason why I should be allergic to the sankrantis. Firstly it was

not a completely new concept, secondly it did help the accuracy of the

adhimases.

4)I am also not in favour of the predictions which was copied from the middle

east.But this was more due to the planets rather than the sankrantis. There does

not seem to be any logical truth as far as the effects of planets on human life

goes.I feel the plantets are lame representations of some other forces which

actually affects human life. These are the magnetic, electrical of the earth and

gravitational effects of the earth, the sun and the moon.

5)The sankrantis are used to give us the accurate adhimases by their absence and

also the effective lunar months with sankrantis endowed with the Purushas or

Adityas (bary center).This is dealt in Kalamadhava book in the chapter on

adhimases.We learn that without the nirayan sankrantis,the lunar months lose

their Purush yielding qualities. Thus we may say the sayan sankrnati is related

to Prakriti and the nirayan sankranti is related to the Purush. I hope I do not

have to tell you how much our philosophy is dependant on Prakriti and Purush.We

need both. Prakriti is our mother and Purush is our father. Thus the need to

coordinate both. This coordiantion is shown both by Vedanga jyotish and Sidhanta

jyotish.

Thus I do not understand why you are allergic with the sankrantis which are not

only harmless but also beneficial from many view points. If you are against

predictions that is OK. But the same is more by the reason of the planets. So

please oppose the use of the planets and not the sankrantis.

Regards,

Hari Malla

 

parvasudhar2065 , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote:

>

> Shri Hari Malla ji,

>

> Jai Shri Ram!

>

> The following quote from your message #275 in Parvasudhar2065 is very loud

> and clear that there are no solar months as per the Vedas or the Vedanga

> Jyotisha according to you but only lunar months.

>

> In fact, to the best of my knowledge, that has been your stand throughout

> that there were no solar months in the Vedas and the VJ etc.

>

>

>

> By implication, it means that there never could be any solar Samkrantis as

> per the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.

>

> Naturally, if there were no Samkrantis i.e Solar transit from one month to

> another, there was no question of the solar ingress from one Rashi to

> another.

>

> There is also no question of there having been any controversy about the so

> called nirayana or sayana then since that controversy is applicable to Mesha

> etc. Rashis only.

>

> Thus according to you, anybody celebrating any solar month i.e. Samkranti,

> is going against the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. etc.

>

>

>

> Surprisingly, you have made the following statement in your message #371 of

> the same group to Shri Sammod Acharya:

>

> " I am surprised that you are not conscious of Bisket jatra of Bhaktapur,

> which is celebrated on nirayan Mesh sankranti.

> Also please know that 'Vedasingh' actually also means nirayan mesh

> sankranti, because on Mesh sankranti day the sun falls on the 'horn of the

> Ram' represented

> by the group of stars forming the Mesha rashi. If you refer to the story of

> Vedasingh, it explains how the ram was changing form and giving much trouble

> to

> the prince, who cut the head of the Ram and placed it there, indicating that

> because the ram was shifting position due to shift of sayan sankranti, the

> nirayan

> sankranti was 'fixed' as the time of celebration. The act of 'fixing' is the

> act of cutting the head of the ram and setting there at Veda singh "

>

>

>

> Now will you please make your stand clear that if there were no solar months

> in the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. according to you, how could then

> there be Mesha etc. samkrantis and that also

>

> So called nirayana ones! Thus don't you think that it is your sacred duty

> to stop the general public of Nepal from celebrating any Mesha, Vrisha etc.

> Samkranti, whether so called nirayana or so called sayana?

>

> Don't you think that by not doing so you are not guiding even your own

> brethren from Nepal on the right track, but by pleading for some anti-Vedic

> plus/minus fifteen degrees ayanamsha you are actually misguiding them?

>

> I am copying below both your posts for " ready reference " .

>

> Jai Shri Ram!

>

> A K Kaul

>

> *** ***** ****

>

> #375Re: Fwd: Solar months vis-a-vis lunar months of the Vedic calendar.

>

>

>

> Dear Shri Sammodji,

> Please reply to shri Kaulji how the vedic months were lunar and not solar.

> My

> simple conclusion is that in the sixth verse of Yajur vedanga jyotish, the

> mention of 'Tapa sukla' itself is proof that tapa is a lunar month which has

> a

> 'sukla (pakshya)'. Please give further proofs and elaborate. Thanks,

> Hari Malla

>

> #371

>

> Re: Fwd: this for your attention

>

>

>

> Dear Sammod ji,

> Namaskar! the folwoing stement wasmade by shri AK Kaulji, Quoting your

> previous

> mail.

>

> <I am sure you must have read the post of Shri Sammod Acharya in the

> > Hinducaendar forum that in Kathmandu, they do not celebrate any (solar)

> > Samkrantis even today! That itself means that the only " Hindu country " of

> > yesteryears too had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. rshis, leave alone

> > Phalita Jyotisha!>

>

> I am surprised that you are not conscious of Bisket jatra of Bhaktapur,

> which is

> celebrated on nirayan Mesh sankranti.

> Also please know that 'Vedasingh' acutally also means nirayan mesh

> sankranti,

> because on Mesh sankranti day the sun falls on the 'horn of the Ram'

> represented

> by the group of stars forming the Mesha rashi. If you refer to the story of

> Vedasingh, it explains how the ram was changing form and giving much trouble

> to

> the prince, who cut the head of the Ram and placed it there,indicating that

> because the ram was shifting postion due to shift of sayan sankranti,the

> nirayan

> sankranti was 'fixed' as the time of celebration. The act of 'fixing' is the

> act

> of cutting the head of the ram and setting there at Veda singh.

> What I find it difficult to understand is why you forget the classic 6th

> sloka

> of Yajur vedanga jyotish and think the vedanga jyotish is sayan when it

> clearly

> spells out the sun in dhanistha position as the nirayn uttaryan date. This

> has

> also been confirmed by Brahmihir as late as 6th century AD.? How can the

> same

> postiion of the sun remain as uttarayan for 1700 years or more and be also

> be

> sayan. I feel you have misinterpreted Vedanga jyotish to suit your own

> fanciful

> sayan system.

> Please consider the above pooints.

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

>

> parvasudhar2065

> <parvasudhar2065/post?postID=Sffva1WzQkOrOT8f5

> Yx9VbS-0K2153vcZJ8rLEDiJI9G1_C-z8BHcVQPs5ysfIv95azQ47M4B-SmBrSZ00i8nEGylNEA>

> , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote:

> >

> > HinduCalendar

> <parvasudhar2065/post?postID=hVbA-oRgytYEh5_5-

> j-YkUKe_EkgXpcpyOuF5Uyz2OsGVYLKKFR5SytPX5vckXxkpuw8STqVfx06TeKSapyPhmOi5hTx>

> , " jyotirved . " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri T. V. Sivaramanji,

> > Namaskar!

> > There are quite a few " scholars " according to whom the real Vamadevas (and

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---