Solar months vis-a-vis lunar months of the Vedic calendar.

[Guest guest]

Resepected Shri Kaulji,

 

At least i find somebody to whom i can not chase down at least in 10 yrs but i

use to become very happy if i win over you in any issue, i save that mail in my

archive id so that i could show next generation ppl that Kaulji sometimes lost

in front of me. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

 

Anyway, one exciting gift for you, please read, what comments are written on

that pic just right side of it.

 

One comment from my side to that pic :-

 

JYOTISHIS' UTTARAYANA

 

http://www.ndtv.com/news/photos/album-details.php?albumPage=3 & id=6605 & Album=PHOT\

O_GALLERY & AlbumTitle=Modi+the+kite+runner

 

Regs,

Prashant Pandey

 

 

, " Krishen " <jyotirved wrote:

>

> Shri Prashant Pandeyji,

> Jai Shri Ram!

> <After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail).>

> What you call " fresh air " is actually a rehash of my 1999 ephemeris---an

" event " that took place more than ten year back! In fact, I have been repeating

the same " clitches " again and again and boring everbody unnecessarily! Anyway, I

am glad that you find something fresh in it.

> < Am i allowed to write on your mails??>

> Anybody can write on any mail, and it is up to the moderator to allow it to

appear on the forum or not!

> < I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your

mail.>

> Why should I get angry? Whenever any contrarian views are presented, I

evaluate them thoroughly and if need be, change my views! After all, what I am

writing today is based on my readings and intereactions till date! Who knows, I

may repudiate my own stand after a few days! E.g., till a few years back, I was

myself under the impression that the real Vamadevas had nothing else to do

except to erect and delineate the horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Hary (even

if they did not exist by those names then---witness the non-existent Brighu and

Ravana and Aruna Samhitas!)! But when I found that it was impossible for them

to calculate even the exact timing of Udagayana, leave along

shashtyamsha!---because of the limitations at that point of time, and also when

I found that instead of fatalism and latching on to Kala Sarpa and other yogas,

they advocated at every step " karmanyeva adhikaraste, ma phaleshu kadachanai " , I

had to change my views!

> So who knows, after reading your post, may be I will change my views further

and advocate that we must stop celebrating Lahiri Samkrantis and start

celebrating Ramana Sankrantis or even Muladhara samkrantis and so on!

> Jai Shri Ram!

> A K Kaul

>

> PS

> I have a request! I feel very odd/uneasy when someone addresses me as

" respected " . Believe me, I am just an ordinary human being with the same mionor

or major vices that everybody else has! Pl. as such, just " Kaul ji " or even

" akk " will do.

> AKK

>

>

> , " prashant " <praspandey@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Shri Kaulji,

> >

> > After a long time i got some fresh air to inhale (after reading your mail).

> >

> > Am i allowed to write on your mails??

> >

> > I think you will not get angry at me if i put my chavanni or athanni on your

mail.

> >

> > Regs,

> > Prashant Pandey

> >

> > , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Sammod Acharyaji,

> > >

> > > Jai Shri Ram!

> > >

> > > This is in continuation of my earlier post emphasizing that it is

impossible that the Vedic seers would have used synodic lunar months to the

exclusion of solar months for their calendars.

> > >

> > > While going through the Rig-Veda a few days back, I came across the

following mantra (3/8/8)

> > >

> > > Aaditya rudra vasavah suneetha dyava-kshyama prithivee antarikshyam

> > >

> > > Sajoshaso yajnyam avantu deva oordvam krinvantu advarasya ketum

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Acharya Sayana, while commenting on this mantra has referred to aditya as

“dwadasha adityah†i.e. twelve suns.

> > >

> > > Then in mantra 3//9/9, we find

> > >

> > > treeni shata tree sahasrani-agnim trimshachcha deva nav chaasaparyan

> > >

> > > aukshyan-gritarastrina barhirasma aadidhotaram nyasdayanta

> > >

> > > Commentigt on this mantra, Acharya Sayana has said, “…..devasankhya

cha brihadarnyeke abhihita, ‘mahimana evaitesham ete tryastrimshat-tvena deva

iti. Katme tetraystrimshad ashtav vasava ekadasha rudra dwadasha aadityas ta

ekatrimshad indraschaiva prajapatishchai trayastrimsshavâ€. Thus the Acharya

has talked of the fifth mantra of ninth adyaya of third Brahmana of Brihad

Arnyaka-upanishada, that refers to thirty-three devas, which include eight

Vasus, eleven Rudras, twelve Adityas (making the devas thirty-one) and by

including Indra and Prajapati the number of Devas becomes thirty-threeâ€.

> > >

> > > Reading these comments of Acharya Sayana, I recalled that I had discussed

this mantra of the Brihadarnyaka Upanishada in my “Shri Krishna Universal

Ephemeris & Panchang†for 1999 AD, And here is what I had written on page 86

in that ephemeris, “Brhad Arnyaka Upanishad 3/9/5 runs thus, ‘katama aditya

iti dwadasha vai masah samvatsarashchaita aadtiya ete heedam sarvam aadadaana

yanti te yad idam sarvam aadadaana yanti tasmad aditya iti’ (meaning)

‘Vidagda Shakalya asks---‘Who are the Adityas’? (Yajnyavalkya replies)

‘Twelve months themselves which are the limbs of a Samvatsara, a year, are

Adtiyas. (How?) Because these (very) months through their constant

cycles---movements---go on accepting the deeds of all the human beings as well

as dispensing their results by way of their life span etc. and as they (these

twelve months) ‘accept while moving’ that is why they are known as

Adityasâ€

> > >

> > > On the same page of that very ephemeris I had said further, “(As per

3/6/9 of the Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada) it has been said, ‘O Gargi, under the

command of this very indestructible Brahman, days, fortnights, months, Ritus and

Samvatsaras remain what they areâ€.

> > >

> > > Thus this Upanishada also has clubbed the solar months with seasons and

then with the year.

> > >

> > > Similarly, Acharya Shankara has said in his commentary on 4/15/4 of

Chhandogya Upaishada “yan shad udanneti masan†, “The departed soul goes

to the deity presiding over the six months when the sun goes Uttara†which

should mean when the sun has northern declination---Uttarayana.

> > >

> > > Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada is a part of Vajasneya Brahmana of Kanva Shakha

of the Yajurveda, and must, as such, predate the Vedaqnga Jyotisha of Acharya

Lagadha. Chhandogya Upanishad is a part of Talavakar Samaveda.

> > >

> > > Since the Rig-Veda talks of adityas in plural, it means that the Rig-Veda

is also referring to solar months, and that is why Acharya Sayana has

interpreted those (twelve) adityas as twelve months.

> > >

> > > There cannot therefore be any doubt that the Vedas do talk of solar months

and ayanas definitely and it was only to those very seasonal solar months that

the lunar (synodic) months like Magha, Phalguna etc. were aligned/pegged.

> > >

> > > Regarding your statement that nobody in Kathmandu celebrates any

Samkranti, that only goes to prove that even Nepal, the “only Hindu kingdomâ€

of yesteryears, had no faith in Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis. I will, however,

write about that in a separate post.

> > >

> > > Jai Shri Ram

> > >

> > > A K Kaul

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected Sammod Acharya,

> > >

> > > Jai Shri Ram and welcome to HinduCalendar forum.

> > >

> > > In fact, Hindus need scholars like you for clear cut guidelines about

streamlining the Hindu Calendar.

> > >

> > > < Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana

that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc

it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya

etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year,

ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining

the Vedic intercalary month>

> > >

> > > You are absolutely right that in the Vedanga Jyotisha and later Paitamaha

and Vasishtha Sidhanta etc., we do not have any clear indication about the

methodology of finding the starting dates of solar months. That is also clear

from Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis being conspicuous by their absence from all these

astronomical works.

> > >

> > > But the four cardinal points have been given due importance in the Vedas

and the VJ directly or indirectly. One of the main handicaps that the Indian

astronomers were facing as early as 1400 BCE or even in early centuries of

Common Era, was the mathematical computation for calculating exact solar

ingresses from Tapas to Tapasya and so on. Gnomon was the main instrument used

for such purposes, but it is next to impossible to calculate the exact timings

of even Uttarayana or Dakshinayana etc. phenomena leave alone the other months

like Tapasya and Madhu etc., without taking recourse to observations over

several centuries. Modern astronomy is also undergoing changes by the day even

if it is by milliseconds in computing the exact timings of Winter Solstice etc.

> > >

> > > A fundamental question that arises otherwise is that if the four cardinal

points were not of any importance in the Vedic period, why and how did they get

all the attention in the Puranas and Tantra Shashtra etc.? This will be evident

from BVB6, 1999b and rashi5 and npj1 etc. documents in the files section.

> > >

> > > These four cardinal points do not have much of a religious significance in

other religions. Thus though Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were imported into India

from other countries, and they were clubbed with Vernal and Autumnal Equinox

etc., but the solar ingress into (so called Sayana rashis) of Mesha, Karkata,

Tula and Makara etc. rashis gained prominence and importance only because of

their association with the four cardinal points. If Makar Sankranti was being

celebrated with fervour over the last several centuries I India, it is not

because that Sankranti has any intrinsic value but it is only because of its

association with Udagayana, the Winter Solstice, as it was the start of the new

solar year as per the Vedanga Jyotisha.

> > >

> > > We also find that several commentators of the Vedanga Jyotisha have linked

Tapas and Tapasya etc. months to seasonal solar months and Magha, Phalgua etc.

to lunar months.

> > >

> > > Similarly, regarding the thirteen lunar months, an adhika and kshyya masa

can take place only if it is compared to some standard year that has only twelve

months. To take the duration of the solar year as 366 days and then calculate

adhika or kshyaya lunar masa just on the basis of that very duration is a far

fetched point.Â

> > >

> > > We find the mention of thirteenth month in the Rig Veda itself, and unless

and until there had been a concept of twelve solar months, it is impossible to

presume that the thirteenth month would have been an adhika masa!

> > >

> > > <when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are

easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is

unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined.>

> > >

> > > It was not an easy job to determine even a solar year in 1400 BCE!Â

Regarding a lunar year, it is a misnomer! A solar year means the revolution

of the earth from one Solstice to another as during the time of the VJ or from

one Equinox to another, as at present. On the other hand, lunar revolution

from one VE to another is known as a Tropical month and from one  " Fixed

Star†to another is known as a sidereal month, whereas the period between

one New Moon and another is known as a Synodic month! There is never a lunar

year, as such! Besides, we have to bear in mind that it is a

 " masa†(month) that is adhika or kshyaya, and it can be so only

against some other standard month and not some standard year!

> > >

> > > As such, we have to go by the spirit (and not just the  letter) of

the Vedas and the Veadanga Jyotisha as far as calculation of adhika or kshyaya

masa etc. is concerned. And this can be done only by treating Tapas, Tapasya

etc. months as solar and Magha, Phalgua etc. months as lunar.

> > >

> > > With regards,

> > >

> > > A K Kaul

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar , sammod acharya <samodacharya@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Kaullji

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for remembering.Best wishes of vatrsararambha to you and all.

> > >

> > > Solar year of VJ starts from the starting point of the solar udagayana

that is the winter solstice. It is known from the sixth sloka svarakramete etc

it is supported by the slokas prapadyete etc, gharmavriddhi etc and yaduttarasya

etc. VJ is for yajna yajnakalarthasiddhaye there is no direct use of solar year,

ayana, ritu and month in yjna. We need the solar ayana mainly for determining

the Vedic intercalary month

> > >

> > > when one solo lunar year is determined following solo lunar years are

easily determined when the past uninterrupted series of solo lunar years is

unbroken the following solo lunar years are easily determined. All these things

are explained in the kaundinnyayana vyakhyana of VJ published by Chaukhamba

Vidya Bhavana of Varanasi (2005); the book is available in Delhi at Chaukhmba

Sanskrit Pratisthana, 38 U A Bangalo road, Jabahara Nagara also. All things are

explained in Hindi also in this book. Please read the book thoroughly every

thing will be clear.Our new hindi book on vedanga jyotish Bharatavarsheeya

jyotishke jwalant prashna aur Vedanga Jyotish (2008) published by same

publisher deals in detail with all these issues.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > regards ,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > sammod

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > jyotirved <jyotirved@>

> > > [HinduCalendar] Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009

> > > hinducalendar , ,

usbrahmins , vedic_research_institute ,

akandabaratam , asthikasamaj ,

mukti_marg , indiaarchaeology

> > > Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:11 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear friends,

> > >

> > > Best wishes for Uttarayana of 2009!

> > >

> > > Uttarayana Day, known as Winter Solstice in English language, is a unique

Hindu festival --- like the Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two Ayanaas

i.e. Vernal and autumnal Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat and Hemanta Sampat

respectively.

> > >

> > > All these festivals, as per the Puranas. are said to yield thousand-fold

results if charities are bestowed during their punya-kala or other

puja/japa/archana is conducted/performed during that period.

> > >

> > > Unfortunately, because of our fatal infatuation with predictive gimmicks,

which some people call “Vedic astrologyâ€ÂÂ, we have

gone completely out of touch with these universal geographic and religious

phenomena.

> > >

> > > Uttarayana Day is also known as Makar Sankranti as per all the siddhantas,

including the Surya Siddhanta, and all the Puranas, including the Bhagavata,

Vishnu and Vishnu-dharmotarapu rana etc.

> > >

> > > The exact timing of Uttaryana for 2009 is 17 hrs. 47 mts UT/GMT which

corresponds to 23 hrs. 17 mts. IST of December 21, 2009. Those desirous of

doing Tantrika kriyas at the exact moment can start doing so around 23 hrs. IST

and continue for about an hour, though the snana-dhyana etc. of Uttarayana will

be on December 22 right from the dawn.

> > >

> > > It is the same Uttarayana that was and must be known as Makaradi-snana in

UP and Bihar etc.; Shishira Sankranti in Kashmir and Makar Sankranti for the

whole of India. It is also the start of the Vedic month Tapah and solar Magha

apart from Shishira Ritu.

> > >

> > > There is no other Makar Sankranti either as per the Siddhantas or Puranas,

not to speak of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha since Makar etc. rashis, being

imaginary divisions, are conspicuous by their absence from those works.

> > >

> > > Anybody, however, can celebrate any Sankranti on any day, since India is

the largest democracy in the world and every body has his/her

“religious freedom†even to celebrate any imaginary

sankranti!

> > >

> > > The so called Dhanurmasa, which is an anathema for marriages etc. as per

muhurta shastras, also ends actually on December 21 itself, instead of January

15, when “almighty†Lahiri Dharniumasa will end!

> > >

> > > With regards,

> > >

> > > A K Kaul

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >