Justification of Divisional Longitudes (Transit of Nakshatra..)

January 14, 2010

Namaste,

Modern software has a precision of a few arc-sec in calculating the physical

(D-1) longitudes of planets. Thus, D-60 longitudes have a precision of a few

arc-min. If you see the kind of analysis I am doing, this is more than

sufficient.

Exact longitude and latitude of birthplace does not affect the geocentric

longitudes of planets. A few minutes of error in the birthtime changes the D-60

divisional longitudes of planets, other than Moon, by only a few arc-min. So it

is a non-issue. In case of Moon, his D-60 divisional longitude can change by

upto a deg if birthtime is off by a minute.

Thus, we can be reasonably confident of the D-60 divisional longitudes of

planets other than Moon (and Moon too if we are confident of the birthtime).

* * *

Lagna is quite sensitive and knowing the D-60 longitude (or even D-60 sign) of

lagna is difficult. What this means is that you need to rectify the chart with

some events and verify with some more events, before you can rely on it.

* * *

The remaining factor is ayanamsa. As a matter of fact, I did not make much

headway in my research into divisional longitudes when I was using Lahiri

ayanamsa. Only after I came up with Jagannatha ayanamsa (a variation of Lahiri

ayanamsa which I finally revealed to the world in mid-2008), I started to make

headway.

A few arc-min of error in ayanamsa can change physical (D-1) longitudes of

planets by a few arc-min and the divisional longitudes in D-60 by a few deg.

That would be a problem.

Unlike Lahiri ayanamsa and other ayanamsas based on *arbitrary* zero ayanamsa

dates (i.e. there is scope for some adjustment), Jagannatha ayanamsa used by me

is logically based on some rigid parameters.

In Lahiri ayanamsa, start of the zodiac *fluctuates* around 180 deg from Chitra

star. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, it is *fixed* at 180 deg from Chitra star at all

times. Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane on which planets are projected for

finding longitudes fluctuates in Lahiri ayanamsa and it is fixed in Jagannatha

ayanamsa. In Lahiri ayanamsa, the planetary longitudes in birth chart and

planetary longitudes in transit chart are projected on two *different*

2-dimensional planes. Correlating them as a part of transit analysis is like

comparing apples and oranges. The points of, say, 12Vi30 in rasi chart and

12Vi30 in transit chart are based on projecting planets on two different planes

and using slightly different points as the zero deg point! In Jagannatha

ayanamsa, we take the mean Sun-earth plane (also known as Vishnu nabhi plane)

that is fixed and the start of zodiac is fixed at 180 deg from Chitra star's

projection on that plane. So natal chart and

transit charts are based on projecting the planetary longitudes onto the *same*

2-dimensional plane.

In my opinion, Jagannatha ayanamsa is correct. It is very close to Lahiri

ayanamsa, but differs in some important ways. As a result of these differences,

it is logical, consistent and systematic. It is well-suited for unearthing

specific and precise rules for correlating natal and transit longitudes, as

these longitudes are based on the same plane and a consistent zero point. As the

zero point and the plane fluctuate from one day to another with standard

ayanamsas such as Lahiri, you are unlikely to find any consistent results.

As a matter of fact, it was only based on several fine techniques depending on

precise longitudes, such as divisional longitude based transits and Tithi

Pravesha, that I got confidence in Jagannatha ayanamsa during my early research!

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

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-

, " a_violet_in_twilight "

<a_violet_in_twilight wrote:

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> Namaste.

>

> Thank you for the explanation of divisional longitudes. However, the following

question still remains unanswered for me.

>

> How precisely should we know the longitude in D1 to get longitudes in higher

divisions than D60? Is it really possible by the measurement standards we have?

>

> For example, 30 min in D1 will be one rasi (or 30 deg) in D60. From your

explanation below, it means to know up to 1 deg precision in D60, we must to

know longitude up to 1 min precision in D1. Then we need to know longitudes in

D1 with increasing precision to get minutes and seconds for longitudes in D60 or

higher.

>

> Is it possible in reality given the variations in birth location, and time?

Can we reliably measure up to a second or a fraction of second precision in D1

longitudes?

>

> I would greatly appreciate your comments on the above.

>

> Best regards,

> SK

>

> , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste friends,

> >

> > Parasara mentioned planets in exaltation in divisional charts. Even in

tradition, we consider it. For example, a planet that is debilitated in rasi and

exalted in navamsa is considered to have neecha bhanga.

> >

> > How can one define exaltation of a planet in a divisional chart, without

having the concept of longitude in the divisional chart???

> >

> > Unfortunately, people use many approximations to the teachings of rishis

today. They assume that planets are exalted in entire signs. But that is NOT

what Parasara taught. Moon is in exaltation only in the first 3 deg of Taurus

and not entire Taurus. Mercury is in exaltation only the first 15 deg of Virgo

and not entire Virgo.

> >

> > In order to see if Moon or Mercury is in exaltation in navamsa or another

divisional chart, one MUST know the longitude of the planet in that divisional

chart. It is not enough to know that Moon is in Taurus. One needs to know if he

is in the first 3 deg of Taurus! If there is nothing called divisional

longitudes, one cannot talk about exaltation of planets in divisional charts

such as navamsa.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > When teaching the special graha drishtis based on " bhavas " , Parasara taught

that Mars has full aspect on 4th and 8th houses from him, Jupiter on 5th and 9th

houses from him and Saturn on 3rd and 10th houses from him. Then he clarified

further and gave clear formulas to quantify the extent of aspect from a planet

on various points of the zodiac. The formulas clearly establish that 90-120 deg

from Mars is the 4th house from Mars, 210-240 deg from Mars is the 8th house

from Mars, 120-150 deg from Jupiter is the 5th house from Jupiter and so on.

> >

> > Unfortunately, as I said before, people use many approximations to the

teachings of rishis today. If Mars is at 27Ge43, they assume that 4th house from

Mars is entire Virgo. But that is NOT what Parasara taught. If Mars is at

27Ge43, then 27Vi43-27Li42 is the 4th house from Mars.

> >

> > (Note: This also explains why Parasara recommended making separate bhava

chakras from lagna, Sun, Moon etc. If entire signs are bhavas, one can make one

chart and keep rotating it. There is no need to really make different charts.

But, if house of a planet depends on the longitude of reference and longitude of

planet, then it makes sense to make multiple charts and keep them handy.)

> >

> > Now, Parasara mentioned placement of planets in divisional charts in houses

from various references. As a simple example, there is a reference to a planet

placed in various divisions in a quadrant from " svaarudha " . As the 1st, 4th, 7th

and 10th houses from a reference depend on its exact longitude, one cannot

determine if Sun in D-9 or Moon in D-10 or Jupiter in D-12 is in a quadrant from

" svaarudha " unless one knows the exact longitudes of Sun in D-9 or Moon in D-10

or Jupiter in D-12.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > When we say that Moon in navamsa is in Libra, it is not a special abstract

Libra. It is the same Libra that was described by Parasara in the chapter on

rasis. Planets of rasi chart are physical points in zodiac that can be

correlated to physical objects. Planets of navamsa (and other divisional charts)

may not have a physical representation, but they are abstract *points* that are

placed at various positions in the same zodiac! If Moon in navamsa is in Libra,

the question arises " where in Libra " .

> >

> > In fact, Parasara did not really teach making navamsa chart, dasamsa chart

etc. He taught finding the " rasi Sun " , " rasi Sun " , " navamsa Sun " , " navamsa

Moon " , " dasamsa Sun " , " dasamsa Moon " etc as points in the zodiac containing 12

rasis.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > If one studies Parasara carefully or peruses the above pointers with

intellectual honesty, one can see why divisional longitudes are justified and

needed.

> >

> > Finding them is straight-forward. Suppose Moon is at 22Ar00 physically, i.e.

in rasi chart. As 20Ar00-23Ar20 is mapped to Libra in navamsa, Moon in navamsa

is in Libra. As 3 deg 20 min of rasi chart is mapped to 30 deg in navamsa chart,

each deg of rasi chart is mapped to 9 deg in navamsa. Moon is advanced by 2 deg

in the 3 deg 20 min physical arc of Aries that is mapped to Libra in navamsa.

Multiplying by 9, he is at 18 deg in Libra.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Some people may be uncomfortable that this opens a lot of messy questions.

For example, do we find AK based on longitudes in rasi chart only or use

longitudes in divisional charts? Do we find nakshatras, sarvatobhadra chakra,

nakshatra dasas etc based on longitudes in rasi chart only or use longitudes in

divisional charts?

> >

> > If one does not think straight or research thoroughly, it is easy to draw

wrong conclusions. There is no hurry to answer these questions. It is possible

that nakshatras or chara karakas found based on a divisional chart have a

subtler purpose but we need to find them based on rasi chart alone for the

purposes we are used to.

> >

> > In any case, rejecting the concept of divisional longitudes altogether

because there are some unresolved and complicated questions that perhaps need

more study, is akin to placing the cart before the bullock. It should be the

other way around. If there is clear justification for divisional longitudes,

accept them first and then consider the questions that rise and try to answer

them.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Anybody who honestly studies the two research articles titled " Stationary

Planets in Transit " and " Transit of Nakshatra Dasa Lord: A Specific Principle "

has to wonder whether such specific *longitudinal* correlations between

transiting planets in rasi chart and natal planets in *divisional* charts can be

mere coincidences.

> >

> > Please note that I am not offering circumstantial evidence alone. In

addition to this circumstantial evidence, I gave theoretical justification

above.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> > -

> > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > Spirituality:

> > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > -

> >

> > , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya@> wrote:

> > >

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > Namaskar Narasimha,

> > >

> > > It is futile to use a car that has no steering, irrespective of how

good the design is.

> > >

> > > The question here was how do you justify D-1800 (the 30 longitudinal

divisions of your D-60 chart in your software, that require 1800 divisions in

Rashi chart) ? Actually your software divides D-144 also in 30 parts so that is

something like D-4320 - sounds more like an apartment number !

> > >

> > > Please defend that first. Who gave you that " scholarly " idea ?

> > > Has anybody ever heard of anything more than D-300 anyways ?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Nitish

> > >

> > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste,

> > > >

> > > > Most charts used were rectified based on several events and several

techniques. Of course, one has the right to remain skeptical.

> > > >

> > > > Inquisitive students of Jyotish may note that the coincidences are too

good to be random. If you look carefully, multiple events are used with several

charts in the examples. If you think that D-60 lagna was doctored for one

exmaple, what about the others based on the same chart?

> > > >

> > > > For example, examples 10, 22 and 23 use the same chart. The native of

the chart is a famous astrology savant and the D-60 lagna was rectified by him

(and me too). Isn't it very interesting that the dasa lord closely aspected the

D-60 longitude of a planet with a strong link to the 7th house by less than 1

deg at the time of his marriage and closely aspected the D-60 longitudes of two

planets having a strong link to the 5th house by 2 deg at the time of birth of

both his children? A very close aspect on vital planets by dasa lord at the time

of 3 important events! I have shown such close correlations in several examples.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > In my personal opinion, the last two articles on the transit of

stationary planets and dasa lord's transit are my best contributions to Jyotish

research.

> > > >

> > > > In any case, I am not here to sell anything. For a while, I will defend

my work as a scholar. After that, I will move on. Whether some fruits will come

from this seed I sowed or not and who enjoys the fruits does not concern me, as

it is not in my hands. As I said at the end of the article, " If you like this

knowledge, please feel free to refine it, use it and spread it. If not, please

leave it. "

> > > >

> > > > Those interested in the article may download the FREE PDF at:

> > > >

> > > > http://VedicAstrologer.org/articles

> > > > " Transit of Nakshatra Dasa Lord: A Specific Principle "

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > I gave multiple examples of each type of event (e.g. marriage,

childbirth, going abroad etc). As I gave Ramana Maharshi's realization of Self

as an example, I wanted to give another example that uses the same parameters,

to demonstrate consistency like with other events. While the dates when yogis

like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Swami Vivekananda, Swami Sivananda, Aurobindo etc

realized Self are not known, I happened to have that data for a contemporary

yogi who happened to reach Nirvikalpa samadhi and have his permission to share

his birthdata. Hence I shared that example. I gave the theoretical definition of

Nirvikalpa samadhi as some Jyotish students may not know the term. Looks like

there is a lot of discussion on that definition rather than the Jyotish content

of my research article.

> > > >

> > > > Self is indescribable and so is realization of Self. However, it is not

without a reason that rishis attempted to describe concepts and things

associated with it. Though theoretical discussions are neither necessary not

sufficient for Self-realization, they can be helpful to some seekers.

> > > >

> > > > However, instead of using a list dedicated to Jyotish for discussing

varieties of samadhi and what they mean, I invite anybody interested in a

discussion to join where I discuss matters related to

spirituality in depth.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > >

> > > > , " utkal.panigrahi "

<utkal.panigrahi@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Agreed, Studies based on unconfirmed birth charts, applying finer D

> > > > > charts could be misleading.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Utkal

> > > > >

> > > > > , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > Namaskar Narasimha,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Am afraid that your article lacks scriptural authority and proper

> > > > > analysis. It is based on your unexplained " longitudes of planets in

> > > > > divisional charts " that looks like more of a mathematical gimmick than

a

> > > > > REALITY.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Essentially, You are attempting to divide what is already a division

> > > > > and exists as a unit (Shastyamsa). And then comparing it with what

> > > > > actually exists, i.e. longitude of a planet in Transit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What it really means (am not counting the seconds part, just the 30

> > > > > imaginative degrees of divisional longitudes your software shows) is

> > > > > that you are talking about a subdivision which is 1/30th of the D-60

> > > > > division, i.e. D-1800.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > While on one hand, you write in your article that research is needed

> > > > > to completely unearth the significance of D-60, OTOH, you are pushing

> > > > > your rather misleading suggestion of " divisional longitudes of

planets "

> > > > > i.e. D-1800. Doesn't that double-standard remind us of PoorvaBhadra

> > > > > constellation ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vivekananda wrote that Truth or true knowledge is never inconsistent

> > > > > with scriptures and analytic and inferential science. It is always an

> > > > > addition and not contradictory to existing true knowledge.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus, many of your research-things that are based on " divisional

> > > > > longitudes of planets " are not Jyotish but comparable to dark matter

> > > > > theory, which would never be found in REALITY!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here is a bit of diversion I came across in your article.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > While I understand that you might not be familiar with yoga, your

> > > > > sanskrit knowledge is good by your own evaluation. In this view, here

is

> > > > > an excerpt from your article:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Nirvikalpa Samadhi is a state where I-ness (individualized Self)

> > > > > merges back into Brahman/Aatman (undifferentiated Self or the Supreme

> > > > > Cosmic Essence) and all objectification and duality ceases. Observer,

> > > > > observed and observation merge into one, without any differentiation

> > > > > whatsoever.... "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If there is really no difference, Could you please illucidate why

you

> > > > > won't use the specific term " Brahman-Sthiti " and instead use a

> > > > > non-positive connotation " Nirvikalpa Samadhi " ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Meanwhile, here is a helpful hint from the now better-known Yogi Sri

> > > > > Yukteswar Giri:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " As prophets are sent on earth to help men work out their physical

> > > > > karma, so I have been directed by God to serve on an astral planet as

a

> > > > > savior, " Sri Yukteswar explained. " It is called Hiranyaloka or

> > > > > 'Illumined Astral Planet.'... No one can enter Hiranyaloka unless he

has

> > > > > passed on earth beyond the state of sabikalpa samadhi into the higher

> > > > > state of nirbikalpa samadhi.... "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It implies that Nirbikalpa/Nirvikalpa is a high-spiritual state,

> > > > > nothing more than a passport to enter another high Astral Plane, and

not

> > > > > equivalent to " Brahman-Sthithi " as You are stating.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you are convinced with the explanation of Sri Yukteswar, you

> > > > > needn't reply to this non-astrological diversion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks and Regards,

> > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " pvr@

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Another research article on Jyotish is available for a free

download

> > > > > at

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > VedicAstrologer.org/articles

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The article is titled " Transit of Nakshatra Dasa Lord: A Specific

> > > > > Principle " . It contains an original principle that is simple and

> > > > > replicable, illustrated with 36 practical examples. A small excerpt

from

> > > > > the beginning of the article is reproduced below.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ----------------------

> > > > > > > Introduction

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nakshatra dasas such as Vimsottari dasa are very important for

> > > > > timing events. Nakshatra dasa lord is a very important planet and he

has

> > > > > a strong influence on the mind of a native at the time. Vedic

> > > > > Astrologers have traditionally used the nakshatra dasa lord's transit

in

> > > > > various ways, e.g. houses occupied from natal Moon and natal lagna and

> > > > > aspects on natal positions in rasi chart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I found an interesting correlation between the longitude of

> > > > > nakshatra dasa lord in transit and divisional longitudes of natal

> > > > > planets. I want to share a specific principle based on the correlation

I

> > > > > found. Please note that this principle is not intended to replace the

> > > > > techniques that Vedic astrologers traditionally employ, but meant to

> > > > > augment them.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Principle

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Maharshi Parasara defined 16 divisional charts. While mentioning

the

> > > > > matters seen in each divisional chart, he said shashtyamsa (D-60)

shows

> > > > > ÃƒÆ’Ã†' Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ Ã‚Â¬ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Â¦ " everythingÃƒÆ’Ã†'

Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ Ã‚Â¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¯ Ã‚Â¿ Ã‚Â½. In the vimsopaka bala of dasa

varga

> > > > > and shodasa varga, shashtyamsa is given a higher weightage than even

the

> > > > > rasi chart. It seems like a key chart. The correlation I found between

> > > > > the longitude of nakshatra dasa lord in transit and longitudes of

natal

> > > > > planets involves D-60.

> > > > > > > ----------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Happy New Year,

> > > > > > > Narasimha

February 16, 2010

Dear Shri Narasimha Namaste

I would request you to go through various Shadbalas their claculation and then

come with a revised view.

Point of deep exaltation and rashi of exaltations are ''physical'' principles.

Kindly re-read Paramocha and Ucha Bala.

Secondly i would request you to re-read Bhavasthithi Bala(Residential Strength).

I would humbly suggest that Houses and Rashis are identical. However for

Phalaniroopana ,quality of phala and accurate timing, certain Bhava sthithi

calculations are necessary.

Relationship with lagnasphuta and Surya sphuta are important.

Thirdly i would request you to re-reread Bhava Bala. I beleive these

mathematical calculations which are quantitative in nature and necessary for

strength evaluation, could be one reason for some astrologers , not equating

bhava with rashi.

As a Fourth point i would re-request you to tell us how can certain Rashis have

special strength while representing specifc bhavas. Jala, Keeta , nara etc, if

Rashi is not equal to Bhava.

Finally once you have re-read you may re-consider my view, that Grahas attain

navamsha, dashamsha etc in rashis which can be their moolatrikona, Ucha etc.

Similarly the Kendra from Swarudha etc can be understood if Karakamsha analysis

as advised by Shri K.N.Rao (clue from traditional astrologers) can be conceived.

Finally i would request you to explain - the degrees in divisions. When you have

derived ''18 degree'' in navamsha does it point to the same ''rashi'' as in

rashi chakra OR does it point to any ''abstract space'' or is it something

subtle where you can still see a physical degree ?

I would also request you to re-consider the statement from Hrishi thulyas that

Rashi is sthoola shareera while navamsha and dwadashamsha constitute the 21

tattwas of Rashi forming sookshma shareera.

Thanks

Pradeep

, " Vijayadas " <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Narasimha Namaste

>

> I would request you to go through various Shadbalas their claculation and then

come with a revised view.

>

> Point of deep exaltation and rashi of exaltations are ''physical'' principles.

Kindly re-read Paramocha and Ucha Bala.

>

> Secondly i would request you to re-read Bhavasthithi Bala(Residential

Strength). I would humbly suggest that Houses and Rashis are identical. However

for Phalaniroopana ,quality of phala and accurate timing, certain Bhava sthithi

calculations are necessary. Relationship with lagnasphuta and Surya sphuta are

important.

>

> Thirdly i would request you to re-reread Bhava Bala. I beleive these

mathematical calculations which are quantitative in nature and necessary for

strength evaluation, could be one reason for some astrologers , not equating

bhava with rashi.

>

> As a Fourth point i would re-request you to tell us how can certain Rashis

have special strength while representing specifc bhavas. Jala, Keeta , nara etc,

if Rashi is not equal to Bhava.

>

> Finally once you have re-read you may re-consider my view, that Grahas attain

navamsha, dashamsha etc in rashis which can be their moolatrikona, Ucha etc.

Similarly the Kendra from Swarudha etc can be understood if Karakamsha analysis

as advised by Shri K.N.Rao (clue from traditional astrologers) can be conceived.

>

> Finally i would request you to explain - the degrees in divisions. When you

have derived ''18 degree'' in navamsha does it point to the same ''rashi'' as in

rashi chakra OR does it point to any ''abstract space'' or is it something

subtle where you can still see a physical degree ?

>

> I would also request you to re-consider the statement from Hrishi thulyas that

Rashi is sthoola shareera while navamsha and dwadashamsha constitute the 21

tattwas of Rashi forming sthoola shareera.

>

> Thanks

> Pradeep