RE: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

> The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with free SW.

 

If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are WRONG.

Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for Jyeshtha

4th pada.

 

The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left

ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough

confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS.

 

* * *

 

I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different from

what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did not

respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if he (or

someone else) could send me the definition in written form.

 

BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to buy

the CD and listen.

 

* * *

 

The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an old

Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house in 2004.

Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada unambiguously, but the

matter of antardasas is murky.

 

The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in

dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, who

taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in savya and

apasavya chakras!

 

For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, Cn, Le,

Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge,

[wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) not mentioned by

Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to NOT wrap back but move

forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas

in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, [moving ahead to the next dasa

cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . This ensures that there are no

unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by

Shiva. It is also wrong.

 

The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and

Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) was

that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as people do

and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, but by treating

the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas from the dasa cycle

associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level down after another, you

keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet elegant idea, which ensures

that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs that are not mentioned by Shiva.

It also shows the logical structure behind the dasa cycles associated with

nakshatra padas.

 

Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed that I

had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He asked me

to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC conference in India.

I told him that I still needed to figure out the apasavya nakshatra case, which

was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. I hastily figured out apasavya

nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but it seems like he changed things

later.

 

Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by Parasara. I

deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that they are based on

the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs not mentioned by

Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by Parasara.

 

On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa sequences

are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. You can NOT go

against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct!

 

I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it against

Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to invest their

time on those wrong teachings.

 

* * *

 

But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to JHora (the

current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has no errors. Any

other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see exactly what he

taught.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

" Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

Spirituality:

Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

-

 

---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs wrote:

> Dear Narsimha ji,

>

> Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service.

>

> You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail .

>

> In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these

teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava.

>

> BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. In

case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have

>

> an option to try his teachings with free SW.

>

> With regards.

>

> RCS

>

> jhora [jhora ] On Behalf Of

Narasimha PVR Rao

> Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM

> jhora ; JyotishWritings ;

vedic astrology ;

> Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a previous

release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was still wrong.

>

> I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's complaint

and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you select the " Rao

& Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations given by JHora match

what was given in our combined paper.

>

> For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, Ge, Ta

and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what Parasara

taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81).

>

> * * *

>

> > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....

>

> I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be " Pi-Ar-.... " for

Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with Parasara's teachings as

well as *our own* combined paper.

>

> In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at the last

minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our combined paper

alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with Parasara's teachings.

>

> * * *

>

> In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, please

select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada is Cancer

navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa cycles taught

by Parasara.

>

> With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match the

dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of course the

Raghavacharya method.

>

> Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various methods

and the difference between various methods is essentially in how dasa sesham is

applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is the only one that

is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles itself.

>

> Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas

starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is chosen). It

uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various nakshatra padas to

actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various dasas.

>

> All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed sequences

listed by Parasara.

>

> Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note the

setting mentioned above.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------

> Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> Spirituality:

> Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> -------------------------

>

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , " Sanjay

Rath " <sanjayrath@> wrote:

> > >

> > > om gurave namah

> > >

> > > Dear Jyotishi

> > >

> > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to my

amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given in

Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG.

> > >

> > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't ask me

questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have checked Jyestha

4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your copy from

www.vedicsoftware.com

> > >

> > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use full

cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get Cn-Vi....

> > >

> > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I used in

London

> > >

> > > Best wishes

> > >

> > > Sanjay Rath

> > >

> > > PS. I think I am going to hold

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

> The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with free SW.

 

If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are WRONG.

Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for Jyeshtha

4th pada.

 

The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left

ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough

confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS.

 

* * *

 

I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different from

what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did not

respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if he (or

someone else) could send me the definition in written form.

 

BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to buy

the CD and listen.

 

* * *

 

The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an old

Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house in 2004.

Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada unambiguously, but the

matter of antardasas is murky.

 

The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in

dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, who

taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in savya and

apasavya chakras!

 

For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, Cn, Le,

Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge,

[wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) not mentioned by

Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to NOT wrap back but move

forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas

in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, [moving ahead to the next dasa

cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . This ensures that there are no

unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by

Shiva. It is also wrong.

 

The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and

Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) was

that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as people do

and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, but by treating

the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas from the dasa cycle

associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level down after another, you

keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet elegant idea, which ensures

that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs that are not mentioned by Shiva.

It also shows the logical structure behind the dasa cycles associated with

nakshatra padas.

 

Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed that I

had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He asked me

to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC conference in India.

I told him that I still needed to figure out the apasavya nakshatra case, which

was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. I hastily figured out apasavya

nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but it seems like he changed things

later.

 

Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by Parasara. I

deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that they are based on

the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs not mentioned by

Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by Parasara.

 

On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa sequences

are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. You can NOT go

against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct!

 

I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it against

Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to invest their

time on those wrong teachings.

 

* * *

 

But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to JHora (the

current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has no errors. Any

other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see exactly what he

taught.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

" Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

Spirituality:

Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

-

 

---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs wrote:

> Dear Narsimha ji,

>

> Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service.

>

> You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail .

>

> In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these

teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava.

>

> BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. In

case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have

>

> an option to try his teachings with free SW.

>

> With regards.

>

> RCS

>

> jhora [jhora ] On Behalf Of

Narasimha PVR Rao

> Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM

> jhora ; JyotishWritings ;

vedic astrology ;

> Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a previous

release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was still wrong.

>

> I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's complaint

and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you select the " Rao

& Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations given by JHora match

what was given in our combined paper.

>

> For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, Ge, Ta

and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what Parasara

taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81).

>

> * * *

>

> > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....

>

> I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be " Pi-Ar-.... " for

Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with Parasara's teachings as

well as *our own* combined paper.

>

> In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at the last

minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our combined paper

alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with Parasara's teachings.

>

> * * *

>

> In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, please

select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada is Cancer

navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa cycles taught

by Parasara.

>

> With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match the

dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of course the

Raghavacharya method.

>

> Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various methods

and the difference between various methods is essentially in how dasa sesham is

applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is the only one that

is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles itself.

>

> Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas

starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is chosen). It

uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various nakshatra padas to

actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various dasas.

>

> All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed sequences

listed by Parasara.

>

> Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note the

setting mentioned above.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------

> Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> Spirituality:

> Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> -------------------------

>

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , " Sanjay

Rath " <sanjayrath@> wrote:

> > >

> > > om gurave namah

> > >

> > > Dear Jyotishi

> > >

> > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to my

amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given in

Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG.

> > >

> > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't ask me

questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have checked Jyestha

4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your copy from

www.vedicsoftware.com

> > >

> > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use full

cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get Cn-Vi....

> > >

> > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I used in

London

> > >

> > > Best wishes

> > >

> > > Sanjay Rath

> > >

> > > PS. I think I am going to hold