[JyotishWritings] Too many options in JHora

[Guest guest]

Dear Narasimha,

 

I think you are true to your heart and mind in whatever you say and

practice. I have been following your writings closely and must say you have

contributed some genuine original stuff that is a result of your laborious

research. Please continue and I see you right there it to the top rung of

astrologers in the next decade.

 

Thinking of your dissociation with Sri Sanjay-ji, in your opinion, what

astrological factors in his horoscope do you think makes him propound

jyotish knowledge that you think is incorrect or corrupted knowledge? I mean

when we disucss jyotish, this has to show in the dashas and bukthis or

other factors in his horoscope.

 

I have another question regarding JHora. In the Dasas Tab for starting and

ending dates is is possible to get dd-mm-yyyy rather than yyyy-mm-dd format?

I tried the preferences tab (related to display) but could not find the

option to change this. If this is not available I suggest you include it in

your next release, I really prefer to see the Indian date format which I

have always been used to.

 

Warm regards,

Vinay

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:

 

>

>

> Namaste Manoj ji,

>

> > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara.

>

> There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example,

> Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar

> vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is

> not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who

> used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji

> did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and

> non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading

> of the situation as described in the mail below.

>

> Namaste Neelam ji,

>

> > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion

> that

> > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology

> > makes much sense, isn't it?

>

> It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope.

> Please convey my regards to him.

>

> However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first

> communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring

> 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji

> maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you

> keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in

> his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I

> maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I

> gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly

> corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent

> research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while

> remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up

> astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam

> yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I

> vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any

> expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are

> shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still.

>

> However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to

> caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth

> without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of

> offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the

> applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also

> sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going

> against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing

> and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful

> and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I

> started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly.

>

> Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As

> far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years

> now.

>

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------

> Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> Spirituality:

> Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> -------------------------

>

> <%40>,

> neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Manoj ji,

> >

> > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion

> that

> > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology

> > makes much sense, isn't it?

> >

> > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent

> > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I

> > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely,

> not

> > to mention the great service done through JHora.

> >

> > Best wishes to Narsimha ji.

> >

> > Regards

> > Neelam

> >

> > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99 wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Narasimha ji,

> > >

> > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is

> concerned

> > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to

> have

> > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did

> not

> > > even consult him astrologically then.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > >

> > > Manoj

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr <pvr%40charter.net>>

> > > To:

vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40><vedic-astrolo\

gy%

> 40>;

> > >

<%40><%

> 40>;

> > > JyotishWritings

<JyotishWritings%40><JyotishWritings%

> 40>;

> > > jhora <jhora%40> <jhora%

> 40>

> > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM

> > > Too many options in JHora

>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Partha,

> > >

> > > > Dear Narasimha

> > > >

> > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa,

> > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like

> > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method)

> > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc.

> > >

> > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime

> we

> > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us

> to

> > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not

> sure.

> > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara

> > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the

> > > confusion.

> > >

> > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets

> > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to

> crack the

> > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the

> basic

> > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him

> and

> > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it

> now.

> > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he

> > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where

> Parasara is

> > > clear.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him

> > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from

> the

> > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara

> secrets,

> > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets "

> irresponsibly. If

> > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it

> would've

> > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst

> researcher

> > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many

> things

> > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to

> serious

> > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical

> testing.

> > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic

> that

> > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor.

> > >

> > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for

> > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes

> explicitly

> > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious

> > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji

> revolutionized

> > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for

> > > several years now.

> > >

> > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I

> > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not

> say

> > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not

> want to

> > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I

> am

> > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in

> my

> > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as

> to

> > > avoid confusions for novices like me.

> > > >

> > > > regards

> > > > Partha

> > >

> > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things.

> We

> > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and

> even

> > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably

> > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the

> difference

> > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is

> > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark.

> > >

> > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we

> need

> > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and

> impassioned

> > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My

> > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next

> decade and

> > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish.

> > >

> > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology

> in

> > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N.

> Rao

> > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus

> to

> > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took

> the

> > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and

> brought

> > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the

> plant

> > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant.

> > >

> > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we

> > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a

> tree.

> > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual

> plant

> > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the

> knowledge

> > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > Namaste Srivastava,

> > >

> > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume.

> Page

> > > 11 OF

> > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has

> > > mentioned.

> > > >

> > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for

> all

> > > savya

> > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any

> > > scholar.BTW

> > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for

> > > jyeshta

> > > > 4 th pada ?

> > >

> > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail

> is

> > > enclosed. He wrote:

> > >

> > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others.

> > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... "

> > >

> > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as

> taught

> > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something

> else

> > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is

> no

> > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates

> > > Parasara.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings

> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > >

> > > > Namaste,

> > > >

> > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with

> > > free SW.

> > > >

> > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings

> are

> > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ...

> for

> > > Jyeshtha 4th pada.

> > > >

> > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara

> left

> > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have

> enough

> > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was

> different

> > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He

> did

> > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to

> JHora if

> > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form.

> > > >

> > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were

> willing to

> > > buy the CD and listen.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from

> an

> > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my

> house

> > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada

> > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky.

> > > >

> > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result

> in

> > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord

> Shiva,

> > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair

> in

> > > savya and apasavya chakras!

> > > >

> > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li,

> Vi,

> > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be

> " Li, Vi,

> > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap

> (Ge->Cp)

> > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is

> to

> > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to

> > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn,

> Le, Ge,

> > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi,

> Aq " .

> > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces

> > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong.

> > > >

> > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva

> and

> > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit

> verses)

> > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle

> as

> > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next

> cycle,

> > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding

> antardasas

> > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one

> level

> > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and

> yet

> > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa

> pairs

> > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure

> behind

> > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas.

> > > >

> > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he

> exclaimed

> > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very

> quickly). He

> > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC

> > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the

> > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to

> wait.

> > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a

> paper, but

> > > it seems like he changed things later.

> > > >

> > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by

> > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so

> that

> > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or

> dasa-antardasa

> > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given

> by

> > > Parasara.

> > > >

> > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa

> > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be

> deduced.

> > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be

> correct!

> > > >

> > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it

> > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want

> to

> > > invest their time on those wrong teachings.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to

> > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and

> has

> > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to

> see

> > > exactly what he taught.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org

>

> > >

> > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > >

> > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami.

> rcs%40gmail.

> > > com> > wrote:

> > > > > Dear Narsimha ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service.

> > > > >

> > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail .

> > > > >

> > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per

> these

> > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava.

> > > > >

> > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by

> Guruji.

> > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have

> > > > >

> > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW.

> > > > >

> > > > > With regards.

> > > > >

> > > > > RCS

> > > > >

> > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25>

> 40.

> > > com> [jhora <jhora%

<jhora%25><jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao

>

> > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM

> > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25>

> 40.

>

> > > com> ; JyotishWritings <

> JyotishWritings%40grou <JyotishWritings%2540grou>

> > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology%

> > > 40. com> ; <

> %40 <%2540>. com>

> > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste friends,

> > > > >

> > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a

> > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was

> > > still wrong.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's

> > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If

> you

> > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations

> > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper.

> > > > >

> > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le,

> Cn,

> > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches

> what

> > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81).

> > > > >

> > > > > * * *

> > > > >

> > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....

> > > > >

> > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be

> > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with

> > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper.

> > > > >

> > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper

> at

> > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our

> > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with

> > > Parasara's teachings.

> > > > >

> > > > > * * *

> > > > >

> > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other

> methods,

> > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th

> pada

> > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the

> dasa

> > > cycles taught by Parasara.

> > > > >

> > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora

> match

> > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except

> of

> > > course the Raghavacharya method.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between

> various

> > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in

> how

> > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya

> method is

> > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa

> cycles

> > > itself.

> > > > >

> > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine

> navamsas

> > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is

> > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various

> > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various

> > > dasas.

> > > > >

> > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed

> > > sequences listed by Parasara.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please

> note

> > > the setting mentioned above.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org

>

> > >

> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > >

> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%

<sohamsa%25><sohamsa%25>40. com> <

> > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@>

>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > om gurave namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and

> found to

> > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation

> given

> > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and

> don't

> > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have

> > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get

> your

> > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we

> use

> > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get

> > > Cn-Vi....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra

> paper/slides I

> > > used in London

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best wishes

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sanjay Rath

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

Vinay Kumar K

Dubai