Transferring JHora Ownership

March 10, 2010

dear narasimha ,

i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away jhora . i

understand that this software is more research based and aims at refining

jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculations and are

loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions.

god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!!

best regards,

chandan singh.

vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:

>

> Namaste Sanjay,

>

> > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual

> > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do

> > if I ask him to transfer --

> > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

>

> If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an eyelid.

However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me.

>

> When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave JHora

programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink.

>

> In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going to try

to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. I know you

want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the Jyotish world

and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your effort so far

will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, kill research and

eventually make it commercial like everything else they are doing today. You

must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns

Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it free and

add new researches to it. "

>

> (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.)

>

> * * *

>

> Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the

lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part ways " ,

because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " .

>

> And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take over

JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in JHora. I

immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first step of what

he described.

>

> * * *

>

> This was my reply to you from August 2009:

>

> " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some more

time.

>

> Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations and

options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I said, I

will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you or an

SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file.

>

> If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can review

the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. "

>

> * * *

>

> Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question about

transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, you

already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -

> Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> Spirituality:

> Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> -

>

> vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote:

> > om gurave namah

> > Dear Raj

> > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the

person to whom you gave it?

> > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of

Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him.

> > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so

then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we

say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru

Dakshina?*

> > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In

future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making

statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily.

> >

> > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong.

> > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing -

> > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha on

behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran

away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So,

technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public

forum for Sri Jagannath Center.

> > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology

List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who

is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran

away with things entrusted to them?

> > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become

very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer --

> > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of

Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna.

> > Jaya Bharati

> > Regards ~

> > Sanjay Rath

> > http://srath.cpm

> >

> > Raj

> > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM

> > vedic astrology

> > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly

> > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and

> > Shishya.

> >

> > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following

> > thoughts have been occuring in my mind.

> >

> > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great

> > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha

> > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still.

> >

> > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of

> > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the

> > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is

> > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of

> > the Shishya ?

> >

> > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out

> > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots

> > of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation

> > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar

> > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his

> > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are

> > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a

> > Film, with No End!

> >

> > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing

> > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from

> > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his

> > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces

> > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata

> >

> > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change

> > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the

> > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis

> > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of

> > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone

> > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in

> > JHora !

> >

> > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's

> > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE.

> >

> > Raj Bhardwaj

> >

> > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Manoj ji,

> > >

> > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara.

> > >

> > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For

> > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect

> > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite

> > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't

> > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable

> > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his

> > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you

> > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as

> > described in the mail below.

> > >

> > > Namaste Neelam ji,

> > >

> > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> > occasion that

> > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> > Astrology

> > > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > >

> > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my

> > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him.

> > >

> > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I

> > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in

> > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As

> > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach

> > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing

> > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as

> > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public

> > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I

> > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems

> > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to

> > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During

> > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god.

> > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I

> > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent

> > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a

> > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in

> > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still.

> > >

> > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay

> > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for

> > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if

> > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by

> > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I

> > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being

> > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with

> > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek

> > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma

> > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at

> > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly.

> > >

> > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly.

> > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for

> > several years now.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------

> > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > > -------------------------

> > >

> > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > >

> > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> > occasion that

> > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> > Astrology

> > > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > > >

> > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the

> > intelligent

> > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start

> > afresh! I

> > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares

> > freely, not

> > > > to mention the great service done through JHora.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > Neelam

> > > >

> > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Narasimha ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is

> > concerned

> > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not

> > seem to have

> > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and

> > maternal) did not

> > > > > even consult him astrologically then.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Manoj

> > > > >

> > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen

> > him

> > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received

> > from the

> > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara

> > secrets,

> > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets "

> > irresponsibly. If

> > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets,

> > it would've

> > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst

> > researcher

> > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so

> > many things

> > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to

> > serious

> > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical

> > testing.

> > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague

> > logic that

> > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor.

> > > > >

> > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas*

> > for

> > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes

> > explicitly

> > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a

> > glorious

> > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji

> > revolutionized

> > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly

> > for

> > > > > several years now.

> > > > >

> > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now,

> > but I

> > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I

> > could not say

> > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did

> > not want to

> > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual

> > master, I am

> > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or

> > anger in my

> > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations.

> > > > >

> > > > > * * *

> > > > >

> > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly

> > so as to

> > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards

> > > > > > Partha

> > > > >

> > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many

> > things. We

> > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying

> > and even

> > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a

> > reasonably

> > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the

> > difference

> > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the

> > room is

> > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark.

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds.

> > What we need

> > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and

> > impassioned

> > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest.

> > My

> > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next

> > decade and

> > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish.

> > > > >

> > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on

> > astrology in

> > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri

> > K.N. Rao

> > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the

> > focus to

> > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath

> > took the

> > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and

> > brought

> > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the

> > plant

> > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant.

> > > > >

> > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the

> > weeds we

> > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a

> > tree.

> > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the

> > actual plant

> > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the

> > knowledge

> > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years.

>

March 11, 2010

Dear narasimha,

namaste,

The going debate between you and sanjay rath has disillusioned me as I am

new to this science. I had slowly over the years built upon

my meager knowledge.And thank you for being logical and scientific -I learnt

a lot from your book.Sanjay's book always puzzled me as it was hard to

understand but then it was my failing that i could not fathom what he was

trying to explain.

This parting of ways made me put all my learning on hold over the past

year.what has amazed me is that people who question Jhora now have happily

given predictions(lifetime) using the same earlier..Now all the dasas are

wrongly computed. I'll not take any names.Does it mean that all their

predictions do not stand anymore?This is indeed becoming a joke.Are we

trying to brownie points at the cost of astrology? I have been so confused.

I know my opinion doesn't count much but I need to tell you that I stand by

your knowledge, your selfless service,and I salute your unambiguity and

honesty.I wish you all the success.

sincerely,

anuradha kochhar.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:06 AM, chandan s sabarwal <wavelogixwrote:

>

> dear narasimha ,

>

> i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away

> jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at

> refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculations

> and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions.

>

> god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!!

>

> best regards,

> chandan singh.

>

> vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>,

> Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Sanjay,

> >

> > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual

> > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do

> > > if I ask him to transfer --

> > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> >

> > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an

> eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me.

> >

> > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave JHora

> programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink.

> >

> > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going to

> try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. I

> know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the

> Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your

> effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion,

> kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they

> are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but

> realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to

> them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. "

> >

> > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.)

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the

> lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part

> ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " .

> >

> > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take over

> JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in JHora.

> I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first step

> of what he described.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > This was my reply to you from August 2009:

> >

> > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some

> more time.

> >

> > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations and

> options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I said,

> I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you

> or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a

> jhora.ini file.

> >

> > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can

> review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. "

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question about

> transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, you

> already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> > -------------------------

> > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > Spirituality:

> > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > -------------------------

> >

> > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>,

> " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote:

> > > om gurave namah

> > > Dear Raj

> > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the

> person to whom you gave it?

> > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of

> Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him.

> > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things,

> so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software,

> can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the

> *Guru Dakshina?*

> > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful.

> In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before

> making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily.

> > >

> > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are

> wrong.

> > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing -

> > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by

> Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another

> old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief

> called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the

> responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center.

> > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic

> Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with

> this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the

> previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them?

> > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has

> become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to

> transfer --

> > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list

> of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna.

> > > Jaya Bharati

> > > Regards ~

> > > Sanjay Rath

> > > http://srath.cpm

> > >

> > > Raj

> > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM

> > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>

> > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly

> > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and

> > > Shishya.

> > >

> > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the

> following

> > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind.

> > >

> > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great

> > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha

> > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still.

> > >

> > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of

> > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the

> > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum

> is

> > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of

> > > the Shishya ?

> > >

> > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out

> > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora.

> Lots

> > > of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation

> > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar

> > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his

> > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are

> > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a

> > > Film, with No End!

> > >

> > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is

> doing

> > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even

> from

> > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his

> > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces

> > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata

> > >

> > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can

> change

> > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the

> > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis

> > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of

> > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone

> > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in

> > > JHora !

> > >

> > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's

> > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE.

> > >

> > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > >

> > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>,

> Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Manoj ji,

> > > >

> > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara.

> > > >

> > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For

> > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect

> > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite

> > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't

> > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable

> > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his

> > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you

> > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as

> > > described in the mail below.

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Neelam ji,

> > > >

> > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> > > occasion that

> > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> > > Astrology

> > > > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > > >

> > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my

> > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him.

> > > >

> > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I

> > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student

> in

> > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As

> > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach

> > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing

> > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon

> as

> > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public

> > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I

> > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems

> > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to

> > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During

> > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god.

> > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I

> > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent

> > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a

> > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in

> > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still.

> > > >

> > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay

> > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for

> > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if

> > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by

> > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I

> > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being

> > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with

> > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek

> > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma

> > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at

> > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly.

> > > >

> > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding

> slowly.

> > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for

> > > several years now.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > > -------------------------

> > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > > > Spirituality:

> > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > > > -------------------------

> > > >

> > > > <%40>,

> neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

> > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> > > occasion that

> > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> > > Astrology

> > > > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > > > >

> > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the

> > > intelligent

> > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start

> > > afresh! I

> > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares

> > > freely, not

> > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > Neelam

> > > > >

> > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is

> > > concerned

> > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not

> > > seem to have

> > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and

> > > maternal) did not

> > > > > > even consult him astrologically then.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Manoj

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having

> seen

> > > him

> > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received

> > > from the

> > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine

> parampara

> > > secrets,

> > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets "

> > > irresponsibly. If

> > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets,

> > > it would've

> > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst

> > > researcher

> > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so

> > > many things

> > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to

> > > serious

> > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical

> > > testing.

> > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague

> > > logic that

> > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with

> *ideas*

> > > for

> > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes

> > > explicitly

> > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a

> > > glorious

> > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji

> > > revolutionized

> > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject

> badly

> > > for

> > > > > > several years now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now,

> > > but I

> > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I

> > > could not say

> > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did

> > > not want to

> > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual

> > > master, I am

> > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or

> > > anger in my

> > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly

> > > so as to

> > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > Partha

> > > > > >

> > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many

> > > things. We

> > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying

> > > and even

> > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a

> > > reasonably

> > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the

> > > difference

> > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the

> > > room is

> > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds.

> > > What we need

> > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and

> > > impassioned

> > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of

> interest.

> > > My

> > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next

> > > decade and

> > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on

> > > astrology in

> > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri

> > > K.N. Rao

> > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the

> > > focus to

> > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath

> > > took the

> > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini

> and

> > > brought

> > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as

> the

> > > plant

> > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the

> > > weeds we

> > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into

> a

> > > tree.

> > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the

> > > actual plant

> > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the

> > > knowledge

> > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years.

> >

>

--

à¤¹à¤°à¥‡ à¤°à¤¾à¤® à¤•à¥ƒà¤·à¥à¤£à¥¥

March 11, 2010

Namaste Sanjay,

> Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual

> and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do

> if I ask him to transfer --

> (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an eyelid.

However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me.

When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave JHora

programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink.

In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going to try to

take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. I know you

want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the Jyotish world

and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your effort so far

will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, kill research and

eventually make it commercial like everything else they are doing today. You

must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns

Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it free and

add new researches to it. "

(Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.)

* * *

Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the lists,

" I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part ways " ,

because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " .

And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take over JHora

and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in JHora. I

immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first step of what

he described.

* * *

This was my reply to you from August 2009:

" I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some more

time.

Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations and

options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I said, I

will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you or an

SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file.

If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can review

the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. "

* * *

Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question about

transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, you

already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway.

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

" Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

Spirituality:

Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

-

vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

> om gurave namah

> Dear Raj

> When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the person

to whom you gave it?

> So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of

Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him.

> Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so

then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we

say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru

Dakshina?*

> In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In

future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making

statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily.

>

> If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong.

> Now let me tell you and other list members another thing -

> This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha on

behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran

away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So,

technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public

forum for Sri Jagannath Center.

> Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology

List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who

is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran

away with things entrusted to them?

> Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become

very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer --

> (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of

Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna.

> Jaya Bharati

> Regards ~

> Sanjay Rath

> http://srath.cpm

>

> Raj

> Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM

> vedic astrology

> [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora

>

> Dear All,

>

> For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly

> have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and

> Shishya.

>

> With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following

> thoughts have been occuring in my mind.

>

> (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great

> shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha

> Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still.

>

> (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of

> JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the

> present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is

> fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of

> the Shishya ?

>

> © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out

> flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots

> of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation

> of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar

> (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his

> brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are

> hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a

> Film, with No End!

>

> (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing

> his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from

> any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his

> projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces

> the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata

>

> and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change

> the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the

> ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis

> with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of

> this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone

> create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in

> JHora !

>

> We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's

> houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE.

>

> Raj Bhardwaj

>

> vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Manoj ji,

> >

> > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara.

> >

> > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For

> example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect

> (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite

> well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't

> too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable

> to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his

> teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you

> regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as

> described in the mail below.

> >

> > Namaste Neelam ji,

> >

> > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> occasion that

> > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> Astrology

> > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> >

> > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my

> horoscope. Please convey my regards to him.

> >

> > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I

> first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in

> spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As

> Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach

> it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing

> inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as

> 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public

> exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I

> am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems

> and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to

> clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During

> 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god.

> After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I

> was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent

> astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a

> much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in

> the pipeline and some need to be perfected still.

> >

> > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay

> ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for

> truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if

> fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by

> rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I

> was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being

> truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with

> nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek

> anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma

> sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at

> Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly.

> >

> > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly.

> As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for

> several years now.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> > -------------------------

> > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > Spirituality:

> > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > -------------------------

> >

> > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > >

> > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> occasion that

> > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> Astrology

> > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > >

> > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the

> intelligent

> > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start

> afresh! I

> > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares

> freely, not

> > > to mention the great service done through JHora.

> > >

> > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Neelam

> > >

> > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Narasimha ji,

> > > >

> > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is

> concerned

> > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not

> seem to have

> > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and

> maternal) did not

> > > > even consult him astrologically then.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > >

> > > > Manoj

> > > >

> > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen

> him

> > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received

> from the

> > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara

> secrets,

> > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets "

> irresponsibly. If

> > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets,

> it would've

> > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst

> researcher

> > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so

> many things

> > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to

> serious

> > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical

> testing.

> > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague

> logic that

> > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor.

> > > >

> > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas*

> for

> > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes

> explicitly

> > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a

> glorious

> > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji

> revolutionized

> > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly

> for

> > > > several years now.

> > > >

> > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now,

> but I

> > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I

> could not say

> > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did

> not want to

> > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual

> master, I am

> > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or

> anger in my

> > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly

> so as to

> > > > avoid confusions for novices like me.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards

> > > > > Partha

> > > >

> > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many

> things. We

> > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying

> and even

> > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a

> reasonably

> > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the

> difference

> > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the

> room is

> > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark.

> > > >

> > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds.

> What we need

> > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and

> impassioned

> > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest.

> My

> > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next

> decade and

> > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish.

> > > >

> > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on

> astrology in

> > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri

> K.N. Rao

> > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the

> focus to

> > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath

> took the

> > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and

> brought

> > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the

> plant

> > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant.

> > > >

> > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the

> weeds we

> > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a

> tree.

> > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the

> actual plant

> > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the

> knowledge

> > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years.

March 11, 2010

Narsimha,

We are aware that JHORA was developed by a team of software engineers not by you

alone, at least give other engineers name, hope your new guru doesn't stop you.

Thanx !

, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: