Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Namaste Sanjayji Many of young and amateur students of jyotisha like me are born from the painstaking works of K.N Rao,Sanjay Rath,PV rao,B.V Raman to name a few.We do not see any difference of your credibility with KN rao ,PVR or others.Your role in forwarding vedic astrology is already settled.Their is no doubt in it.Whatever is going on between you and narasimhaji is a completely different issue.For the benefit of astrological world may Lord Jagannatha unite you two both again.Hope in the near future we will again see the works and efforts of thecombination of RATH & RAO .--- In vedic astrology , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > Sanjay Ji, > > It is painful that jyotisha fraternity is not united. I did not like PVR parting away from you, although I differ from both of you because I left using physical astronomy for astrology long ago. But I wanted PVR with you because this combination served the cause of popularization of Vedic Jyotisha for many years. I pray the rift will be patched when good times come. > > -VJ > ============================= === > vedic astrology , " guruji " sjrath@ wrote: > > > > Dear Vinay ji > > Thank you for your kind suggestion, but that was not my intent. I wanted to show the real intention of someone and have succeeded in doing so. > > I have no desire for that software. What will I do with it? I have so many software and also the top Sri Jyoti Star. I am now going to try to talk to Andrew to give a small version free for the jyotish learners. I think you also have a good software, then there is Kala Hora software, Parashara Software ... > > I have nothing to do with this JHora software. It was dear because it had a name *Jagannath* ... who is so dear. > > Jai Bharati > > Sanjay Rath > > > > vedic astrology , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16@> wrote: > > > > > > Guru Dakshinaa is Dakshataa of the shishya which itself gives pleasure > > > to the Guru. A real Guru should not expect more. And a good Shishya must > > > never use foul words even for his/her former guru, even if the guru goes > > > astray. > > > > > > Seeing the state of things at present, PVR's following statement is the > > > best possible solution of the current turmoil : > > > > > > " I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, > > > if you (ie, Sanjay Rath Ji) or an SJC committee standardize the settings > > > and send them to me via a jhora.ini file. If you or an SJC committee > > > decide that something more is needed, I can review the expectations and > > > judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > Even if SJC does not send such a recommendation, PVR knows what SJC > > > wants, perhaps. Hence Rao Ji can add a SJC option separately. It will > > > ameliorate the situation. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ================== === > > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an > > > eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave > > > JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going > > > to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow > > > that. I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to > > > do for the Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take > > > over, all your effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, > > > create confusion, kill research and eventually make it commercial like > > > everything else they are doing today. You must stand firm. They will > > > invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid > > > you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it free and add new > > > researches to it. " > > > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on > > > the lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to > > > part ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take > > > over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options > > > in JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as > > > the first step of what he described. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for > > > some more time. > > > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations > > > and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As > > > I said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended > > > settings, if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send > > > them to me via a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can > > > review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question > > > about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. > > > But, you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > Spirituality: > > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > > - > > > > > > > > vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " sjrath@ wrote: > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > Dear Raj > > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or > > > the person to whom you gave it? > > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner > > > of Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to > > > him. > > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such > > > things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding > > > the software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? > > > So how is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very > > > untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts > > > right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is > > > telling lies easily. > > > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are > > > wrong. > > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by > > > Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by > > > another old student ran away with the SJVC websites and groups. > > > One thief called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted > > > with the responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic > > > Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away > > > with this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different > > > from the previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has > > > become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to > > > transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this > > > list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > > Regards ~ > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > http://srath.cpm > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who > > > seemingly > > > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > > > Shishya. > > > > > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > > > following > > > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > > > Narsimha > > > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work > > > of > > > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what > > > quantum is > > > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle > > > of > > > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. > > > Lots > > > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > > > interpretation > > > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other > > > vidwana/sawant/scholar > > > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown > > > his > > > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all > > > are > > > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for > > > a > > > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > > > doing > > > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > > > from > > > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, > > > faces > > > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > > > change > > > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > > > the > > > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > > > Kunjis > > > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > > > in > > > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each > > > other's > > > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > > > PEACE. > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > > > imperfect > > > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > > > quite > > > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there > > > weren't > > > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is > > > reasonable > > > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of > > > his > > > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. > > > I > > > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his > > > student in > > > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will > > > teach > > > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > > > noticing > > > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as > > > soon as > > > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself > > > that I > > > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > > > gems > > > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > > > god. > > > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in > > > 2006, I > > > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > > > in > > > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > > > Sanjay > > > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > > > for > > > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered > > > if > > > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if > > > I > > > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > > > slowly. > > > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: > > > > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > > > intelligent > > > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > > > afresh! I > > > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > > > freely, not > > > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did > > > not > > > > > seem to have > > > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > > > seen > > > > > him > > > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > > > received > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > > > parampara > > > > > secrets, > > > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara > > > secrets, > > > > > it would've > > > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the > > > worst > > > > > researcher > > > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of > > > so > > > > > many things > > > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > > > to > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or > > > practical > > > > > testing. > > > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > > > vague > > > > > logic that > > > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > > > *ideas* > > > > > for > > > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > > > sometimes > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > > > glorious > > > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > > > badly > > > > > for > > > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > > > now, > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > > > could not say > > > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I > > > did > > > > > not want to > > > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > > > master, I am > > > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > > > anger in my > > > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated > > > clearly > > > > > so as to > > > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > > > things. We > > > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > > > glorifying > > > > > and even > > > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > > > room is > > > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > > > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > > > What we need > > > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods > > > and > > > > > impassioned > > > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > > > interest. > > > > > My > > > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > > > next > > > > > decade and > > > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > > > astrology in > > > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > > > Sri > > > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > > > the > > > > > focus to > > > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > > > Rath > > > > > took the > > > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > > > and > > > > > brought > > > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > > > the > > > > > plant > > > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > > > weeds we > > > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely > > > into a > > > > > tree. > > > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if > > > the > > > > > actual plant > > > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of > > > the > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Respected Members and Gurus , I came to this group since there were great things to learn from many writers and contributers . There could be many reasons that one is drawn to Astrology .But braodliy classified , I would tend to clasify under two groups , Material pursuits and spiritual pursuits . I would consider myself as a " Nursery student " of astrology . My decision to learn springs from a deep desire to kill my bloated Ego , and Iam sure this group might have several others in my league . Who is right or who is wrong , people will have their individual openions and everyone is right from their point of view , else they would not try to defend it ! Unless all echo same view points , it cannot be proclaimed as truth or reall ! Jyotish discussion, technical arguments are of immense help to all . However personal attacks for whatever reasons ,might not help any cause , however noble the thought might be ! Let this noble science help all those in spriritual pursuits in lessening the burden of Egos rather further bloating . Our great tradition has always been that the " The teacher is always respected " and the student is always pardoned . Hope the infants in Astrology like me get good guidance from all senior members with their great knowledge and lofty conduct that inspires many more to pursuing learning this vidya to realise that Ego is not the Doer !and it all HIM ! May God bless All Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Om Namah Shivaya, Dear Sarbani and Jk, I can personally vouch that what you both are saying is true. I was myself present in the room in Mumbai. Sarbani, what you have stated in your long letter is true, since I myself was present and involved in every step of events in the last few years. So I firmly take my stand to confirm it. Best wishes Zoran Radosavljevic sohamsa , " jk.dasgupta " <jk.dasgupta wrote: > > Dear Sarbani, > > That's it. I still remember the evening. Probably on the last but one day of > Mumbai conference, Sanjayji told us that he was going to ask PVR to make > Jhora free. In the evening in front of us, he made a call to PVR and had a > long discussion. After that he announced that Jhora was going to be free. > > Regards > > jk > > > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology ]On Behalf Of Sarbani Rath > 12 March 2010 18:13 > vedic astrology > RE: [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > Jai Ramakrishna > > A few clarifications for those one or two persons in this list who may be > interested in the reality. Akira Kurusowa in his epoch making film, > Roshomon, showed that truth has many versions. Here is another. The > following events took place in front of me and some other students: > > 1. Narasimha Rao had put a price on JHora like any other regular > commerial software. At the first level, in 2003, Sanjayji requested him to > introduce a special low rate for India. Many of us purchased the software > at > the low rate. In 2004, Sanjayji told him many time to make the software > free > and open source. But nothing materialised as Rao always said 'yes' and > then > never did anything. Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference in > Mumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcement > be made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. After > this, it was immediately announced as free. Yes, of course it was a bit of > struggle. The time when Rao was not very responsive to making it free, > Sanjayji suggested many other models, one of which included the lite and > professional version models. Many issues such as standardised fees for > teaching etc was discussed, not only with Rao, but with other SJC gurus as > well, though nothing was put in practice. This was an attempt to > incorporate the needs and suggestions of many teachers who might have > needed > financial support. Evryone did not have cushy jobs in the corporate sector > in the US. Many of you may not know these facts. > > 2. The software did originate as a sort of guru dakshina between > Sanjayji and Rao, on the condition that Sanjayji taught him, and those > teachings would be translated into the software. In return the software > should be made available for the public. Sanjayji had suggested that the > money earned from the software before it was made free should be used by > Rao > as he saw fit, for the development of SJC activities in the US, like > conferences etc. Other students present during these discussions also gave > their suggestions. However nothing materialised. Finally, Sanjayji > suggested > to Rao, in 2006-7 to donate that money to the Jagannath Temple in Puri. We > dont know whether that happened or not. > > 3. Since 2007, Sanjayji has been advising his Jaimini students in the > classroom NOT to use the software as there were too many erros in it. In > fact, we make our dasa calculations by hand, even Narayana Dasa, or use > alternate software. Many of the lat-long of cities are wrong, as are other > technical details. It has been three years now that we have been bypassing > and moving away from JHora. Already 2-3 people are working on an > alternative > software, which we are going to offer free in SJC. But a little more time > is > required for that. But perhaps most of you are not aware what we have been > upto? Where we are, what we have been doing? > > 4. During the past 3 years, while Rao and his friends were busy jumping > up and down in the list making sanctimonous noises and mud slinging by > creating a holier-than-thou hubris, it gave Sanjayji the perfect space to > start his actual parampara teachings for which he had been waiting all his > life. Ask his band of 30-45 students who have been drinking in the nectar > of > the knowledge of the rishis since 2007. But I dont think even a single one > of them wasted their time being provocated or involved in this quagmire > which has been transpiring in this Vedic-Astrology list, nor are they > likely > to do so now. On behalf of all my colleagues I would like to thank you for > creating this distraction of maya, which enabled us to go underground and > dwell in the realm of pure knowledge. > > 5. What is happening now is good and perhaps necessary. Such has been > the norm in the past. Dr. Raman suffered silently in deep anguish when his > very famous student abused and maligned him. Perhaps he should have spoken > up. Who knows. Perhaps these mad diatribes in emails are necessary to > bring > about the necessary " cleansing " and " de-weeding " which is now necessary > for > an organisation to grow and move forward. > > I know that a 10 feet long response would be hurled at me laced with > twisted > logic and virulent suppressed aggression; but this is my last and only > email > on the subject. I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to any > further provocations that might be directed towards me. Namaste. > > At the lotus feet of Sri Ramakrishna, I remain, > > Sarbani Rath > > Homepage: <http://sarbani.com/> http://sarbani.com > > Sagittarius Publications: <http://sagittariuspublications.com/> > http://sagittariuspublications.com > > Sohamsa: <http://sohamsa.com/> http://sohamsa.com > > Sri Jagannath Centre: <http://.org/> http://.org > > chandan s sabarwal [wavelogix] > 12 March 2010 12:25 > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > dear sanjay ji, > namaste. > > maybe you do not have intentions of taking over jhora , but to the scores > of > upcoming jyotisas who look up to you , your hypothetical statements > unfortunately do not convey honest intentions. so i believe it you should > have been more mature on your part had you never said such hypothetical > statements in the first place. > > regdarding whether narasimha has given you dakshina or not , why bother > proving it to anyone? are you still bound to your ego that somehow wants > to > show that " sanjay rath is right " ? as you rightly said , shiva alone shows > and knows satya , let it be unto him and you can simply carry on doing > your > own karma while narasimha does his. > > maybe you owed narasimha something over from past previous lifes that you > simply repaid , so why now think whether dakshina was given or not? > > infact i dont know whats honestly in both of your hearts , but i do see > narasimha making an effort and keeping a software foc , speding soo much > time researching and trying to make it accurate itself shows no attachment > to anything else than jyotisa. > > do not mind my words , for i speak unbiased and sometimes its others who > make us realise. > > god bless, > chandan singh. > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Chandan Singh > > I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be made > FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. > > I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypothetical > question and see the reaction. The question was based on one person saying > that Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that is > what I HAVE PROVED now. > > His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referred > to me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham. > > I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred > to > meas trying to take over Jagannath Hora. > > What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and then > has to see these lies in his name ... > > Shiva shows satya and He will > > > > Jai Bharati > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > dear narasimha , > > > > i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away > jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at > refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy > calculations > and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions. > > > > god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!! > > > > best regards, > > chandan singh. > > > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an > eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave > JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going > to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow > that. > I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for > the > Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all > your > effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create > confusion, > kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they > are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but > realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to > them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on > the > lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part > ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take > over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in > JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the > first > step of what he described. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for > some > more time. > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations > and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I > said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended > settings, > if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me > via > a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can > review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question > about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. > But, > you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > wrote: > > > > om gurave namah > > > > Dear Raj > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or > the > person to whom you gave it? > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner > of > Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such > things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the > software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So > how > is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very > untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts > right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling > lies easily. > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are > wrong. > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by > Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another > old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief > called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the > responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic > Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with > this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the > previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has > become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to > transfer -- > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this > list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > Regards ~ > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > http://srath.cpm > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who > seemingly > > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > > Shishya. > > > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > following > > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > Narsimha > > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work > of > > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what > quantum > is > > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle > of > > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. > Lots > > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > interpretation > > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other > vidwana/sawant/scholar > > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown > his > > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all > are > > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for > a > > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > doing > > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > from > > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, > faces > > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > change > > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > the > > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > Kunjis > > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > in > > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each > other's > > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > PEACE. > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > imperfect > > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > quite > > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there > weren't > > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is > reasonable > > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of > his > > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > occasion that > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > Astrology > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. > I > > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his > student > in > > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will > teach > > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > noticing > > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as > soon > as > > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself > that > I > > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > gems > > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > god. > > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in > 2006, > I > > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > in > > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > Sanjay > > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > for > > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered > if > > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if > I > > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > slowly. > > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > > Spirituality: > > > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > occasion that > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > Astrology > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > > intelligent > > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > > afresh! I > > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > > freely, not > > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > concerned > > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did > not > > > > seem to have > > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > seen > > > > him > > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > received > > > > from the > > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > parampara > > > > secrets, > > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara > secrets, > > > > it would've > > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the > worst > > > > researcher > > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of > so > > > > many things > > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > to > > > > serious > > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or > practical > > > > testing. > > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > vague > > > > logic that > > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > *ideas* > > > > for > > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > sometimes > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > > glorious > > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > badly > > > > for > > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > now, > > > > but I > > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > > could not say > > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I > did > > > > not want to > > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > > master, I am > > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > > anger in my > > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated > clearly > > > > so as to > > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > > things. We > > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > glorifying > > > > and even > > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > difference > > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > > room is > > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > > What we need > > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods > and > > > > impassioned > > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > interest. > > > > My > > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > next > > > > decade and > > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > > astrology in > > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > Sri > > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > the > > > > focus to > > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > Rath > > > > took the > > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > and > > > > brought > > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > the > > > > plant > > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > > weeds we > > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely > into > a > > > > tree. > > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if > the > > > > actual plant > > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of > the > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > Dear > > > > Jaya Bharati > > Regards ~ > > Sanjay Rath > > http://srath.cpm > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Namaste Kiran, Well Said! I think your mail correctly and directly settles any doubt people may have on who is interested in charging money and who is interested in welfare of jyotish society. I know Narasimha & his family very very well, he has always been an avid proponent of not charging any money (keeping in free), and his activities in Boston has always been so, and even food has been provide free by his family members. Apart from this, those who had come from out-of-state were all hosted by him, his brother-in-law and other friends for free!! I was in the room in CA when decision was made by Sanjayji to put a fee on JHora and even told me and one other person, that we should be the first to pay up. I hope this clears it, once and for all!! Regards Narayan vedic astrology , " kiran.rama " <kiran.rama wrote: > > Sarbani ji, > > If you really care for " free " , why are all your jyotish courses charged heavily? > Even readings have exorbitant charges? > Why do you advocate paid software like Sri Jyotish Star by Andrew? Have you checked if it has few/more errors? > > Don't try to take credit for his software. > SJC will come up with a software version for $2000 and charge $400 for introduction > > WIth all these different divisional charts and dasa systems, there is lot of confusion today. I am sure Narasimhaji will cleanse the world of astrology in the coming years > > Thanks > Kiran > > > > > > vedic astrology , " Sarbani Rath " <sarbani@> wrote: > > > > Jai Ramakrishna > > > > A few clarifications for those one or two persons in this list who may be > > interested in the reality. Akira Kurusowa in his epoch making film, > > Roshomon, showed that truth has many versions. Here is another. The > > following events took place in front of me and some other students: > > > > 1. Narasimha Rao had put a price on JHora like any other regular > > commerial software. At the first level, in 2003, Sanjayji requested him to > > introduce a special low rate for India. Many of us purchased the software at > > the low rate. In 2004, Sanjayji told him many time to make the software free > > and open source. But nothing materialised as Rao always said 'yes' and then > > never did anything. Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference in > > Mumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcement > > be made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. After > > this, it was immediately announced as free. Yes, of course it was a bit of > > struggle. The time when Rao was not very responsive to making it free, > > Sanjayji suggested many other models, one of which included the lite and > > professional version models. Many issues such as standardised fees for > > teaching etc was discussed, not only with Rao, but with other SJC gurus as > > well, though nothing was put in practice. This was an attempt to > > incorporate the needs and suggestions of many teachers who might have needed > > financial support. Evryone did not have cushy jobs in the corporate sector > > in the US. Many of you may not know these facts. > > > > 2. The software did originate as a sort of guru dakshina between > > Sanjayji and Rao, on the condition that Sanjayji taught him, and those > > teachings would be translated into the software. In return the software > > should be made available for the public. Sanjayji had suggested that the > > money earned from the software before it was made free should be used by Rao > > as he saw fit, for the development of SJC activities in the US, like > > conferences etc. Other students present during these discussions also gave > > their suggestions. However nothing materialised. Finally, Sanjayji suggested > > to Rao, in 2006-7 to donate that money to the Jagannath Temple in Puri. We > > dont know whether that happened or not. > > > > 3. Since 2007, Sanjayji has been advising his Jaimini students in the > > classroom NOT to use the software as there were too many erros in it. In > > fact, we make our dasa calculations by hand, even Narayana Dasa, or use > > alternate software. Many of the lat-long of cities are wrong, as are other > > technical details. It has been three years now that we have been bypassing > > and moving away from JHora. Already 2-3 people are working on an alternative > > software, which we are going to offer free in SJC. But a little more time is > > required for that. But perhaps most of you are not aware what we have been > > upto? Where we are, what we have been doing? > > > > 4. During the past 3 years, while Rao and his friends were busy jumping > > up and down in the list making sanctimonous noises and mud slinging by > > creating a holier-than-thou hubris, it gave Sanjayji the perfect space to > > start his actual parampara teachings for which he had been waiting all his > > life. Ask his band of 30-45 students who have been drinking in the nectar of > > the knowledge of the rishis since 2007. But I dont think even a single one > > of them wasted their time being provocated or involved in this quagmire > > which has been transpiring in this Vedic-Astrology list, nor are they likely > > to do so now. On behalf of all my colleagues I would like to thank you for > > creating this distraction of maya, which enabled us to go underground and > > dwell in the realm of pure knowledge. > > > > 5. What is happening now is good and perhaps necessary. Such has been > > the norm in the past. Dr. Raman suffered silently in deep anguish when his > > very famous student abused and maligned him. Perhaps he should have spoken > > up. Who knows. Perhaps these mad diatribes in emails are necessary to bring > > about the necessary " cleansing " and " de-weeding " which is now necessary for > > an organisation to grow and move forward. > > > > > > > > I know that a 10 feet long response would be hurled at me laced with twisted > > logic and virulent suppressed aggression; but this is my last and only email > > on the subject. I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to any > > further provocations that might be directed towards me. Namaste. > > > > > > > > At the lotus feet of Sri Ramakrishna, I remain, > > > > Sarbani Rath > > > > Homepage: <http://sarbani.com/> http://sarbani.com > > > > Sagittarius Publications: <http://sagittariuspublications.com/> > > http://sagittariuspublications.com > > > > Sohamsa: <http://sohamsa.com/> http://sohamsa.com > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre: <http://.org/> http://.org > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal [wavelogix@] > > 12 March 2010 12:25 > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > dear sanjay ji, > > namaste. > > > > maybe you do not have intentions of taking over jhora , but to the scores of > > upcoming jyotisas who look up to you , your hypothetical statements > > unfortunately do not convey honest intentions. so i believe it you should > > have been more mature on your part had you never said such hypothetical > > statements in the first place. > > > > regdarding whether narasimha has given you dakshina or not , why bother > > proving it to anyone? are you still bound to your ego that somehow wants to > > show that " sanjay rath is right " ? as you rightly said , shiva alone shows > > and knows satya , let it be unto him and you can simply carry on doing your > > own karma while narasimha does his. > > > > maybe you owed narasimha something over from past previous lifes that you > > simply repaid , so why now think whether dakshina was given or not? > > > > infact i dont know whats honestly in both of your hearts , but i do see > > narasimha making an effort and keeping a software foc , speding soo much > > time researching and trying to make it accurate itself shows no attachment > > to anything else than jyotisa. > > > > do not mind my words , for i speak unbiased and sometimes its others who > > make us realise. > > > > god bless, > > chandan singh. > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology%40> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandan Singh > > > I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be made > > FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. > > > I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypothetical > > question and see the reaction. The question was based on one person saying > > that Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that is > > what I HAVE PROVED now. > > > His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referred > > to me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham. > > > I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred to > > meas trying to take over Jagannath Hora. > > > What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and then > > has to see these lies in his name ... > > > Shiva shows satya and He will > > > > > > Jai Bharati > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology%40> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > dear narasimha , > > > > > > i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away > > jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at > > refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculations > > and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions. > > > > > > god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!! > > > > > > best regards, > > > chandan singh. > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology%40> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an > > eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave > > JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going > > to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. > > I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the > > Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your > > effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, > > kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they > > are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but > > realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to > > them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the > > lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part > > ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take > > over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in > > JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first > > step of what he described. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some > > more time. > > > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations > > and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I > > said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, > > if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via > > a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can > > review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question > > about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, > > you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------------------- > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > Spirituality: > > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology%40> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > Dear Raj > > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the > > person to whom you gave it? > > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of > > Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such > > things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the > > software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how > > is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very > > untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts > > right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling > > lies easily. > > > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are > > wrong. > > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by > > Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another > > old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief > > called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the > > responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic > > Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with > > this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the > > previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has > > become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to > > transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this > > list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > > Regards ~ > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > http://srath.cpm > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology%40> > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > > > Shishya. > > > > > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > > following > > > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > > Narsimha > > > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum > > is > > > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. > > Lots > > > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > > interpretation > > > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar > > > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > > doing > > > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > > from > > > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > > change > > > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > > the > > > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > > Kunjis > > > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > > in > > > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > > PEACE. > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology%40> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > > imperfect > > > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > > quite > > > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student > > in > > > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > > noticing > > > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon > > as > > > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that > > I > > > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > > gems > > > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > > god. > > > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, > > I > > > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > > in > > > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > > Sanjay > > > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > > for > > > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > > slowly. > > > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: > > > > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > > > intelligent > > > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > > > afresh! I > > > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > > > freely, not > > > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > > > > seem to have > > > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > > seen > > > > > him > > > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > > received > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > > parampara > > > > > secrets, > > > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > > > > it would've > > > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > > > researcher > > > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > > > > many things > > > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > > to > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > > > testing. > > > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > > vague > > > > > logic that > > > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > > *ideas* > > > > > for > > > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > > sometimes > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > > > glorious > > > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > > badly > > > > > for > > > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > > now, > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > > > could not say > > > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > > > > not want to > > > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > > > master, I am > > > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > > > anger in my > > > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > > > > so as to > > > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > > > things. We > > > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > > glorifying > > > > > and even > > > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > > > room is > > > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > > > What we need > > > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > > > impassioned > > > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > > interest. > > > > > My > > > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > > next > > > > > decade and > > > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > > > astrology in > > > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > > Sri > > > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > > the > > > > > focus to > > > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > > Rath > > > > > took the > > > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > > and > > > > > brought > > > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > > the > > > > > plant > > > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > > > weeds we > > > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into > > a > > > > > tree. > > > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > > > > actual plant > > > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > Dear > > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > Regards ~ > > > Sanjay Rath > > > http://srath.cpm > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Dear friends,  We all who have been around last 10 years and more know/must know the truth, so it doesn't need any explanation-it shines through by its immense power, can stand alone and doesn't need defence.  'Testimonial' /false/ and cheap philosophizing to cover lies  /poor marketing, trust me/, can make honest people only disgusted. With attempt to muddy the water, in continuation of such /infertile/ practises for many years, which /successfully/ robbed SJC of its best values it used to have. I used to know the best side of Sanjay who was invested in finding the answers, whose honesty has inspired many, and I liked him a lot. Even now it breaks my heart that he's gone. Unfortunately it's been long that Sanjay's worst side took the best of him- it's not an excuse that his close environment manipulations, obviously compromised his best qualities and integrity, in the name of prestige, dominance, gain.... nurturing his paranoia, power-hunger, perhaps greed, all sort of excuses ostensibly for the sake of prestige of his/SJC's interest.   Besides, not very intelligen- the results are quite opposite.  But there is a balance, that we attract/ get attracted, have to live with,.. people of similar qualities and ideals. It's ultimate justice, in MHO.  Wishing us all the best in pursuit of Jyotish, focusing on pure quest for knowledge. Anna    --- On Sun, 3/14/10, naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer wrote: naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership vedic astrology Received: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 11:54 AM  Namaste Kiran, Well Said! I think your mail correctly and directly settles any doubt people may have on who is interested in charging money and who is interested in welfare of jyotish society. I know Narasimha & his family very very well, he has always been an avid proponent of not charging any money (keeping in free), and his activities in Boston has always been so, and even food has been provide free by his family members. Apart from this, those who had come from out-of-state were all hosted by him, his brother-in-law and other friends for free!! I was in the room in CA when decision was made by Sanjayji to put a fee on JHora and even told me and one other person, that we should be the first to pay up. I hope this clears it, once and for all!! Regards Narayan vedic astrology, " kiran.rama " <kiran.rama@ ...> wrote: > > Sarbani ji, > > If you really care for " free " , why are all your jyotish courses charged heavily? > Even readings have exorbitant charges? > Why do you advocate paid software like Sri Jyotish Star by Andrew? Have you checked if it has few/more errors? > > Don't try to take credit for his software. > SJC will come up with a software version for $2000 and charge $400 for introduction > > WIth all these different divisional charts and dasa systems, there is lot of confusion today. I am sure Narasimhaji will cleanse the world of astrology in the coming years > > Thanks > Kiran > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Sarbani Rath " <sarbani@> wrote: > > > > Jai Ramakrishna > > > > A few clarifications for those one or two persons in this list who may be > > interested in the reality. Akira Kurusowa in his epoch making film, > > Roshomon, showed that truth has many versions. Here is another. The > > following events took place in front of me and some other students: > > > > 1. Narasimha Rao had put a price on JHora like any other regular > > commerial software. At the first level, in 2003, Sanjayji requested him to > > introduce a special low rate for India. Many of us purchased the software at > > the low rate. In 2004, Sanjayji told him many time to make the software free > > and open source. But nothing materialised as Rao always said 'yes' and then > > never did anything. Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference in > > Mumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcement > > be made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. After > > this, it was immediately announced as free. Yes, of course it was a bit of > > struggle. The time when Rao was not very responsive to making it free, > > Sanjayji suggested many other models, one of which included the lite and > > professional version models. Many issues such as standardised fees for > > teaching etc was discussed, not only with Rao, but with other SJC gurus as > > well, though nothing was put in practice. This was an attempt to > > incorporate the needs and suggestions of many teachers who might have needed > > financial support. Evryone did not have cushy jobs in the corporate sector > > in the US. Many of you may not know these facts. > > > > 2. The software did originate as a sort of guru dakshina between > > Sanjayji and Rao, on the condition that Sanjayji taught him, and those > > teachings would be translated into the software. In return the software > > should be made available for the public. Sanjayji had suggested that the > > money earned from the software before it was made free should be used by Rao > > as he saw fit, for the development of SJC activities in the US, like > > conferences etc. Other students present during these discussions also gave > > their suggestions. However nothing materialised. Finally, Sanjayji suggested > > to Rao, in 2006-7 to donate that money to the Jagannath Temple in Puri. We > > dont know whether that happened or not. > > > > 3. Since 2007, Sanjayji has been advising his Jaimini students in the > > classroom NOT to use the software as there were too many erros in it. In > > fact, we make our dasa calculations by hand, even Narayana Dasa, or use > > alternate software. Many of the lat-long of cities are wrong, as are other > > technical details. It has been three years now that we have been bypassing > > and moving away from JHora. Already 2-3 people are working on an alternative > > software, which we are going to offer free in SJC. But a little more time is > > required for that. But perhaps most of you are not aware what we have been > > upto? Where we are, what we have been doing? > > > > 4. During the past 3 years, while Rao and his friends were busy jumping > > up and down in the list making sanctimonous noises and mud slinging by > > creating a holier-than- thou hubris, it gave Sanjayji the perfect space to > > start his actual parampara teachings for which he had been waiting all his > > life. Ask his band of 30-45 students who have been drinking in the nectar of > > the knowledge of the rishis since 2007. But I dont think even a single one > > of them wasted their time being provocated or involved in this quagmire > > which has been transpiring in this Vedic-Astrology list, nor are they likely > > to do so now. On behalf of all my colleagues I would like to thank you for > > creating this distraction of maya, which enabled us to go underground and > > dwell in the realm of pure knowledge. > > > > 5. What is happening now is good and perhaps necessary. Such has been > > the norm in the past. Dr. Raman suffered silently in deep anguish when his > > very famous student abused and maligned him. Perhaps he should have spoken > > up. Who knows. Perhaps these mad diatribes in emails are necessary to bring > > about the necessary " cleansing " and " de-weeding " which is now necessary for > > an organisation to grow and move forward. > > > > > > > > I know that a 10 feet long response would be hurled at me laced with twisted > > logic and virulent suppressed aggression; but this is my last and only email > > on the subject. I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to any > > further provocations that might be directed towards me. Namaste. > > > > > > > > At the lotus feet of Sri Ramakrishna, I remain, > > > > Sarbani Rath > > > > Homepage: <http://sarbani. com/> http://sarbani. com > > > > Sagittarius Publications: <http://sagittariusp ublications. com/> > > http://sagittariusp ublications. com > > > > Sohamsa: <http://sohamsa. com/> http://sohamsa. com > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre: <http:// .org/> http:// .org > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal [wavelogix@ ] > > 12 March 2010 12:25 > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > dear sanjay ji, > > namaste. > > > > maybe you do not have intentions of taking over jhora , but to the scores of > > upcoming jyotisas who look up to you , your hypothetical statements > > unfortunately do not convey honest intentions. so i believe it you should > > have been more mature on your part had you never said such hypothetical > > statements in the first place. > > > > regdarding whether narasimha has given you dakshina or not , why bother > > proving it to anyone? are you still bound to your ego that somehow wants to > > show that " sanjay rath is right " ? as you rightly said , shiva alone shows > > and knows satya , let it be unto him and you can simply carry on doing your > > own karma while narasimha does his. > > > > maybe you owed narasimha something over from past previous lifes that you > > simply repaid , so why now think whether dakshina was given or not? > > > > infact i dont know whats honestly in both of your hearts , but i do see > > narasimha making an effort and keeping a software foc , speding soo much > > time researching and trying to make it accurate itself shows no attachment > > to anything else than jyotisa. > > > > do not mind my words , for i speak unbiased and sometimes its others who > > make us realise. > > > > god bless, > > chandan singh. > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandan Singh > > > I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be made > > FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. > > > I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypothetical > > question and see the reaction. The question was based on one person saying > > that Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that is > > what I HAVE PROVED now. > > > His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referred > > to me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham. > > > I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred to > > meas trying to take over Jagannath Hora. > > > What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and then > > has to see these lies in his name ... > > > Shiva shows satya and He will > > > > > > Jai Bharati > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > dear narasimha , > > > > > > i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away > > jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at > > refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculations > > and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions. > > > > > > god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!! > > > > > > best regards, > > > chandan singh. > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an > > eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave > > JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going > > to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. > > I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the > > Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your > > effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, > > kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they > > are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but > > realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to > > them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the > > lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part > > ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take > > over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in > > JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first > > step of what he described. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some > > more time. > > > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations > > and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I > > said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, > > if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via > > a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can > > review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question > > about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, > > you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > Dear Raj > > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the > > person to whom you gave it? > > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of > > Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such > > things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the > > software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how > > is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very > > untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts > > right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling > > lies easily. > > > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are > > wrong. > > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by > > Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another > > old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief > > called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the > > responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic > > Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with > > this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the > > previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has > > become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to > > transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this > > list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > > Regards ~ > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > > > Shishya. > > > > > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > > following > > > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > > Narsimha > > > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum > > is > > > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > > > flaws with a number of features/calculatio ns/updation in the JHora. > > Lots > > > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > > interpretation > > > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/ scholar > > > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > > doing > > > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > > from > > > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > > change > > > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > > the > > > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > > Kunjis > > > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > > in > > > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > > PEACE. > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > > imperfect > > > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > > quite > > > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student > > in > > > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > > noticing > > > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon > > as > > > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that > > I > > > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > > gems > > > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > > god. > > > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, > > I > > > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > > in > > > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > > Sanjay > > > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > > for > > > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > > slowly. > > > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <JyotishGrou p%40. com> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > > > intelligent > > > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > > > afresh! I > > > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > > > freely, not > > > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > > > > seem to have > > > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > > seen > > > > > him > > > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > > received > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > > parampara > > > > > secrets, > > > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > > > > it would've > > > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > > > researcher > > > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > > > > many things > > > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > > to > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > > > testing. > > > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > > vague > > > > > logic that > > > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > > *ideas* > > > > > for > > > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > > sometimes > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > > > glorious > > > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > > badly > > > > > for > > > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > > now, > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > > > could not say > > > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > > > > not want to > > > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > > > master, I am > > > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > > > anger in my > > > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > > > > so as to > > > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > > > things. We > > > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > > glorifying > > > > > and even > > > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > > > room is > > > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > > > What we need > > > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > > > impassioned > > > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > > interest. > > > > > My > > > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > > next > > > > > decade and > > > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > > > astrology in > > > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > > Sri > > > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > > the > > > > > focus to > > > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > > Rath > > > > > took the > > > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > > and > > > > > brought > > > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > > the > > > > > plant > > > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > > > weeds we > > > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into > > a > > > > > tree. > > > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > > > > actual plant > > > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > Dear > > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > Regards ~ > > > Sanjay Rath > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Dear friends,  We all who have been around last 10 years and more know/must know the truth, so it doesn't need any explanation-it shines through by its immense power, can stand alone and doesn't need defence.  'Testimonial' /false/ and cheap philosophizing to cover lies  /poor marketing, trust me/, can make honest people only disgusted. With attempt to muddy the water, in continuation of such /infertile/ practises for many years, which /successfully/ robbed SJC of its best values it used to have. I used to know the best side of Sanjay who was invested in finding the answers, whose honesty has inspired many, and I liked him a lot. Even now it breaks my heart that he's gone. Unfortunately it's been long that Sanjay's worst side took the best of him- it's not an excuse that his close environment manipulations, obviously compromised his best qualities and integrity, in the name of prestige, dominance, gain.... nurturing his paranoia, power-hunger, perhaps greed, all sort of excuses ostensibly for the sake of prestige of his/SJC's interest.   Besides, not very intelligen- the results are quite opposite.  But there is a balance, that we attract/ get attracted, have to live with,.. people of similar qualities and ideals. It's ultimate justice, in MHO.  Wishing us all the best in pursuit of Jyotish, focusing on pure quest for knowledge. Anna    --- On Sun, 3/14/10, naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer wrote: naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership vedic astrology Received: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 11:54 AM  Namaste Kiran, Well Said! I think your mail correctly and directly settles any doubt people may have on who is interested in charging money and who is interested in welfare of jyotish society. I know Narasimha & his family very very well, he has always been an avid proponent of not charging any money (keeping in free), and his activities in Boston has always been so, and even food has been provide free by his family members. Apart from this, those who had come from out-of-state were all hosted by him, his brother-in-law and other friends for free!! I was in the room in CA when decision was made by Sanjayji to put a fee on JHora and even told me and one other person, that we should be the first to pay up. I hope this clears it, once and for all!! Regards Narayan vedic astrology, " kiran.rama " <kiran.rama@ ...> wrote: > > Sarbani ji, > > If you really care for " free " , why are all your jyotish courses charged heavily? > Even readings have exorbitant charges? > Why do you advocate paid software like Sri Jyotish Star by Andrew? Have you checked if it has few/more errors? > > Don't try to take credit for his software. > SJC will come up with a software version for $2000 and charge $400 for introduction > > WIth all these different divisional charts and dasa systems, there is lot of confusion today. I am sure Narasimhaji will cleanse the world of astrology in the coming years > > Thanks > Kiran > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Sarbani Rath " <sarbani@> wrote: > > > > Jai Ramakrishna > > > > A few clarifications for those one or two persons in this list who may be > > interested in the reality. Akira Kurusowa in his epoch making film, > > Roshomon, showed that truth has many versions. Here is another. The > > following events took place in front of me and some other students: > > > > 1. Narasimha Rao had put a price on JHora like any other regular > > commerial software. At the first level, in 2003, Sanjayji requested him to > > introduce a special low rate for India. Many of us purchased the software at > > the low rate. In 2004, Sanjayji told him many time to make the software free > > and open source. But nothing materialised as Rao always said 'yes' and then > > never did anything. Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference in > > Mumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcement > > be made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. After > > this, it was immediately announced as free. Yes, of course it was a bit of > > struggle. The time when Rao was not very responsive to making it free, > > Sanjayji suggested many other models, one of which included the lite and > > professional version models. Many issues such as standardised fees for > > teaching etc was discussed, not only with Rao, but with other SJC gurus as > > well, though nothing was put in practice. This was an attempt to > > incorporate the needs and suggestions of many teachers who might have needed > > financial support. Evryone did not have cushy jobs in the corporate sector > > in the US. Many of you may not know these facts. > > > > 2. The software did originate as a sort of guru dakshina between > > Sanjayji and Rao, on the condition that Sanjayji taught him, and those > > teachings would be translated into the software. In return the software > > should be made available for the public. Sanjayji had suggested that the > > money earned from the software before it was made free should be used by Rao > > as he saw fit, for the development of SJC activities in the US, like > > conferences etc. Other students present during these discussions also gave > > their suggestions. However nothing materialised. Finally, Sanjayji suggested > > to Rao, in 2006-7 to donate that money to the Jagannath Temple in Puri. We > > dont know whether that happened or not. > > > > 3. Since 2007, Sanjayji has been advising his Jaimini students in the > > classroom NOT to use the software as there were too many erros in it. In > > fact, we make our dasa calculations by hand, even Narayana Dasa, or use > > alternate software. Many of the lat-long of cities are wrong, as are other > > technical details. It has been three years now that we have been bypassing > > and moving away from JHora. Already 2-3 people are working on an alternative > > software, which we are going to offer free in SJC. But a little more time is > > required for that. But perhaps most of you are not aware what we have been > > upto? Where we are, what we have been doing? > > > > 4. During the past 3 years, while Rao and his friends were busy jumping > > up and down in the list making sanctimonous noises and mud slinging by > > creating a holier-than- thou hubris, it gave Sanjayji the perfect space to > > start his actual parampara teachings for which he had been waiting all his > > life. Ask his band of 30-45 students who have been drinking in the nectar of > > the knowledge of the rishis since 2007. But I dont think even a single one > > of them wasted their time being provocated or involved in this quagmire > > which has been transpiring in this Vedic-Astrology list, nor are they likely > > to do so now. On behalf of all my colleagues I would like to thank you for > > creating this distraction of maya, which enabled us to go underground and > > dwell in the realm of pure knowledge. > > > > 5. What is happening now is good and perhaps necessary. Such has been > > the norm in the past. Dr. Raman suffered silently in deep anguish when his > > very famous student abused and maligned him. Perhaps he should have spoken > > up. Who knows. Perhaps these mad diatribes in emails are necessary to bring > > about the necessary " cleansing " and " de-weeding " which is now necessary for > > an organisation to grow and move forward. > > > > > > > > I know that a 10 feet long response would be hurled at me laced with twisted > > logic and virulent suppressed aggression; but this is my last and only email > > on the subject. I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to any > > further provocations that might be directed towards me. Namaste. > > > > > > > > At the lotus feet of Sri Ramakrishna, I remain, > > > > Sarbani Rath > > > > Homepage: <http://sarbani. com/> http://sarbani. com > > > > Sagittarius Publications: <http://sagittariusp ublications. com/> > > http://sagittariusp ublications. com > > > > Sohamsa: <http://sohamsa. com/> http://sohamsa. com > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre: <http:// .org/> http:// .org > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal [wavelogix@ ] > > 12 March 2010 12:25 > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > dear sanjay ji, > > namaste. > > > > maybe you do not have intentions of taking over jhora , but to the scores of > > upcoming jyotisas who look up to you , your hypothetical statements > > unfortunately do not convey honest intentions. so i believe it you should > > have been more mature on your part had you never said such hypothetical > > statements in the first place. > > > > regdarding whether narasimha has given you dakshina or not , why bother > > proving it to anyone? are you still bound to your ego that somehow wants to > > show that " sanjay rath is right " ? as you rightly said , shiva alone shows > > and knows satya , let it be unto him and you can simply carry on doing your > > own karma while narasimha does his. > > > > maybe you owed narasimha something over from past previous lifes that you > > simply repaid , so why now think whether dakshina was given or not? > > > > infact i dont know whats honestly in both of your hearts , but i do see > > narasimha making an effort and keeping a software foc , speding soo much > > time researching and trying to make it accurate itself shows no attachment > > to anything else than jyotisa. > > > > do not mind my words , for i speak unbiased and sometimes its others who > > make us realise. > > > > god bless, > > chandan singh. > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandan Singh > > > I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be made > > FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. > > > I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypothetical > > question and see the reaction. The question was based on one person saying > > that Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that is > > what I HAVE PROVED now. > > > His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referred > > to me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham. > > > I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred to > > meas trying to take over Jagannath Hora. > > > What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and then > > has to see these lies in his name ... > > > Shiva shows satya and He will > > > > > > Jai Bharati > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > dear narasimha , > > > > > > i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away > > jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at > > refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculations > > and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions. > > > > > > god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!! > > > > > > best regards, > > > chandan singh. > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an > > eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave > > JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going > > to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. > > I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the > > Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your > > effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, > > kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they > > are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but > > realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to > > them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the > > lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part > > ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take > > over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in > > JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first > > step of what he described. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some > > more time. > > > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations > > and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I > > said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, > > if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via > > a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can > > review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question > > about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, > > you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > Dear Raj > > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the > > person to whom you gave it? > > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of > > Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such > > things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the > > software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how > > is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very > > untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts > > right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling > > lies easily. > > > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are > > wrong. > > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by > > Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another > > old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief > > called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the > > responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic > > Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with > > this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the > > previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has > > become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to > > transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this > > list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > > Regards ~ > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > > > Shishya. > > > > > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > > following > > > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > > Narsimha > > > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum > > is > > > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > > > flaws with a number of features/calculatio ns/updation in the JHora. > > Lots > > > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > > interpretation > > > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/ scholar > > > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > > doing > > > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > > from > > > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > > change > > > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > > the > > > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > > Kunjis > > > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > > in > > > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > > PEACE. > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > > imperfect > > > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > > quite > > > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student > > in > > > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > > noticing > > > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon > > as > > > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that > > I > > > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > > gems > > > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > > god. > > > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, > > I > > > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > > in > > > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > > Sanjay > > > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > > for > > > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > > slowly. > > > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <JyotishGrou p%40. com> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > > > intelligent > > > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > > > afresh! I > > > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > > > freely, not > > > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > > > > seem to have > > > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > > seen > > > > > him > > > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > > received > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > > parampara > > > > > secrets, > > > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > > > > it would've > > > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > > > researcher > > > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > > > > many things > > > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > > to > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > > > testing. > > > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > > vague > > > > > logic that > > > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > > *ideas* > > > > > for > > > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > > sometimes > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > > > glorious > > > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > > badly > > > > > for > > > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > > now, > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > > > could not say > > > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > > > > not want to > > > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > > > master, I am > > > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > > > anger in my > > > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > > > > so as to > > > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > > > things. We > > > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > > glorifying > > > > > and even > > > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > > > room is > > > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > > > What we need > > > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > > > impassioned > > > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > > interest. > > > > > My > > > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > > next > > > > > decade and > > > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > > > astrology in > > > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > > Sri > > > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > > the > > > > > focus to > > > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > > Rath > > > > > took the > > > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > > and > > > > > brought > > > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > > the > > > > > plant > > > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > > > weeds we > > > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into > > a > > > > > tree. > > > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > > > > actual plant > > > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > Dear > > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > Regards ~ > > > Sanjay Rath > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Hare Rama Krishna.  This is Seshu Putcha from Boston. I have also known PVR and his family for over 10 years now. I wish to add to Narayanan's mail. I attend the classes in Boston from 2004 along with few others. We have not paid a single cent to PVR for the classes to-date. He has been absolutely clear on the point that we are doing this to spread the knowledge and not for money at all. These classes are absolutely free and we make them available to people all over for free download. This also proves the point that all accusations being made on the charging money for Jhora are also incorrect and baseless. If there was even a small motive to make money through jHora and be commercial, the classes for 6 years now could NOT have been free of charge at all. I hope those concerned realize the contributions that PVR made in this area. Even in all the conferences we had in East coast, people from out-station were hosted and there was no charge. I hope people put an end to false accusations and be truthful and thereby make a positive impact towards spiritual progress.  Regards Seshu Putcha p.s: I am also writing this on behalf of my fellow students in Boston.  --- On Sun, 3/14/10, naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer wrote: naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership vedic astrology Sunday, March 14, 2010, 2:54 PM  Namaste Kiran, Well Said! I think your mail correctly and directly settles any doubt people may have on who is interested in charging money and who is interested in welfare of jyotish society. I know Narasimha & his family very very well, he has always been an avid proponent of not charging any money (keeping in free), and his activities in Boston has always been so, and even food has been provide free by his family members. Apart from this, those who had come from out-of-state were all hosted by him, his brother-in-law and other friends for free!! I was in the room in CA when decision was made by Sanjayji to put a fee on JHora and even told me and one other person, that we should be the first to pay up. I hope this clears it, once and for all!! Regards Narayan vedic astrology, " kiran.rama " <kiran.rama@ ...> wrote: > > Sarbani ji, > > If you really care for " free " , why are all your jyotish courses charged heavily? > Even readings have exorbitant charges? > Why do you advocate paid software like Sri Jyotish Star by Andrew? Have you checked if it has few/more errors? > > Don't try to take credit for his software. > SJC will come up with a software version for $2000 and charge $400 for introduction > > WIth all these different divisional charts and dasa systems, there is lot of confusion today. I am sure Narasimhaji will cleanse the world of astrology in the coming years > > Thanks > Kiran > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Sarbani Rath " <sarbani@> wrote: > > > > Jai Ramakrishna > > > > A few clarifications for those one or two persons in this list who may be > > interested in the reality. Akira Kurusowa in his epoch making film, > > Roshomon, showed that truth has many versions. Here is another. The > > following events took place in front of me and some other students: > > > > 1. Narasimha Rao had put a price on JHora like any other regular > > commerial software. At the first level, in 2003, Sanjayji requested him to > > introduce a special low rate for India. Many of us purchased the software at > > the low rate. In 2004, Sanjayji told him many time to make the software free > > and open source. But nothing materialised as Rao always said 'yes' and then > > never did anything. Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference in > > Mumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcement > > be made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. After > > this, it was immediately announced as free. Yes, of course it was a bit of > > struggle. The time when Rao was not very responsive to making it free, > > Sanjayji suggested many other models, one of which included the lite and > > professional version models. Many issues such as standardised fees for > > teaching etc was discussed, not only with Rao, but with other SJC gurus as > > well, though nothing was put in practice. This was an attempt to > > incorporate the needs and suggestions of many teachers who might have needed > > financial support. Evryone did not have cushy jobs in the corporate sector > > in the US. Many of you may not know these facts. > > > > 2. The software did originate as a sort of guru dakshina between > > Sanjayji and Rao, on the condition that Sanjayji taught him, and those > > teachings would be translated into the software. In return the software > > should be made available for the public. Sanjayji had suggested that the > > money earned from the software before it was made free should be used by Rao > > as he saw fit, for the development of SJC activities in the US, like > > conferences etc. Other students present during these discussions also gave > > their suggestions. However nothing materialised. Finally, Sanjayji suggested > > to Rao, in 2006-7 to donate that money to the Jagannath Temple in Puri. We > > dont know whether that happened or not. > > > > 3. Since 2007, Sanjayji has been advising his Jaimini students in the > > classroom NOT to use the software as there were too many erros in it. In > > fact, we make our dasa calculations by hand, even Narayana Dasa, or use > > alternate software. Many of the lat-long of cities are wrong, as are other > > technical details. It has been three years now that we have been bypassing > > and moving away from JHora. Already 2-3 people are working on an alternative > > software, which we are going to offer free in SJC. But a little more time is > > required for that. But perhaps most of you are not aware what we have been > > upto? Where we are, what we have been doing? > > > > 4. During the past 3 years, while Rao and his friends were busy jumping > > up and down in the list making sanctimonous noises and mud slinging by > > creating a holier-than- thou hubris, it gave Sanjayji the perfect space to > > start his actual parampara teachings for which he had been waiting all his > > life. Ask his band of 30-45 students who have been drinking in the nectar of > > the knowledge of the rishis since 2007. But I dont think even a single one > > of them wasted their time being provocated or involved in this quagmire > > which has been transpiring in this Vedic-Astrology list, nor are they likely > > to do so now. On behalf of all my colleagues I would like to thank you for > > creating this distraction of maya, which enabled us to go underground and > > dwell in the realm of pure knowledge. > > > > 5. What is happening now is good and perhaps necessary. Such has been > > the norm in the past. Dr. Raman suffered silently in deep anguish when his > > very famous student abused and maligned him. Perhaps he should have spoken > > up. Who knows. Perhaps these mad diatribes in emails are necessary to bring > > about the necessary " cleansing " and " de-weeding " which is now necessary for > > an organisation to grow and move forward. > > > > > > > > I know that a 10 feet long response would be hurled at me laced with twisted > > logic and virulent suppressed aggression; but this is my last and only email > > on the subject. I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to any > > further provocations that might be directed towards me. Namaste. > > > > > > > > At the lotus feet of Sri Ramakrishna, I remain, > > > > Sarbani Rath > > > > Homepage: <http://sarbani. com/> http://sarbani. com > > > > Sagittarius Publications: <http://sagittariusp ublications. com/> > > http://sagittariusp ublications. com > > > > Sohamsa: <http://sohamsa. com/> http://sohamsa. com > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre: <http:// .org/> http:// .org > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal [wavelogix@ ] > > 12 March 2010 12:25 > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > dear sanjay ji, > > namaste. > > > > maybe you do not have intentions of taking over jhora , but to the scores of > > upcoming jyotisas who look up to you , your hypothetical statements > > unfortunately do not convey honest intentions. so i believe it you should > > have been more mature on your part had you never said such hypothetical > > statements in the first place. > > > > regdarding whether narasimha has given you dakshina or not , why bother > > proving it to anyone? are you still bound to your ego that somehow wants to > > show that " sanjay rath is right " ? as you rightly said , shiva alone shows > > and knows satya , let it be unto him and you can simply carry on doing your > > own karma while narasimha does his. > > > > maybe you owed narasimha something over from past previous lifes that you > > simply repaid , so why now think whether dakshina was given or not? > > > > infact i dont know whats honestly in both of your hearts , but i do see > > narasimha making an effort and keeping a software foc , speding soo much > > time researching and trying to make it accurate itself shows no attachment > > to anything else than jyotisa. > > > > do not mind my words , for i speak unbiased and sometimes its others who > > make us realise. > > > > god bless, > > chandan singh. > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandan Singh > > > I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be made > > FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. > > > I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypothetical > > question and see the reaction. The question was based on one person saying > > that Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that is > > what I HAVE PROVED now. > > > His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referred > > to me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham. > > > I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred to > > meas trying to take over Jagannath Hora. > > > What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and then > > has to see these lies in his name ... > > > Shiva shows satya and He will > > > > > > Jai Bharati > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > dear narasimha , > > > > > > i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away > > jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at > > refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculations > > and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions. > > > > > > god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!! > > > > > > best regards, > > > chandan singh. > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an > > eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave > > JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going > > to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. > > I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the > > Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your > > effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, > > kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they > > are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but > > realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to > > them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the > > lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part > > ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take > > over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in > > JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first > > step of what he described. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some > > more time. > > > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations > > and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I > > said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, > > if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via > > a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can > > review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question > > about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, > > you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > Dear Raj > > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the > > person to whom you gave it? > > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of > > Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such > > things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the > > software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how > > is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very > > untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts > > right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling > > lies easily. > > > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are > > wrong. > > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by > > Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another > > old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief > > called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the > > responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic > > Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with > > this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the > > previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has > > become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to > > transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this > > list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > > Regards ~ > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > > > Shishya. > > > > > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > > following > > > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > > Narsimha > > > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum > > is > > > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > > > flaws with a number of features/calculatio ns/updation in the JHora. > > Lots > > > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > > interpretation > > > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/ scholar > > > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > > doing > > > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > > from > > > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > > change > > > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > > the > > > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > > Kunjis > > > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > > in > > > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > > PEACE. > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > > imperfect > > > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > > quite > > > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student > > in > > > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > > noticing > > > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon > > as > > > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that > > I > > > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > > gems > > > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > > god. > > > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, > > I > > > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > > in > > > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > > Sanjay > > > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > > for > > > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > > slowly. > > > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <JyotishGrou p%40. com> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > > > intelligent > > > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > > > afresh! I > > > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > > > freely, not > > > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > > > > seem to have > > > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > > seen > > > > > him > > > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > > received > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > > parampara > > > > > secrets, > > > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > > > > it would've > > > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > > > researcher > > > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > > > > many things > > > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > > to > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > > > testing. > > > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > > vague > > > > > logic that > > > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > > *ideas* > > > > > for > > > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > > sometimes > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > > > glorious > > > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > > badly > > > > > for > > > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > > now, > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > > > could not say > > > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > > > > not want to > > > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > > > master, I am > > > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > > > anger in my > > > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > > > > so as to > > > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > > > things. We > > > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > > glorifying > > > > > and even > > > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > > > room is > > > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > > > What we need > > > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > > > impassioned > > > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > > interest. > > > > > My > > > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > > next > > > > > decade and > > > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > > > astrology in > > > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > > Sri > > > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > > the > > > > > focus to > > > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > > Rath > > > > > took the > > > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > > and > > > > > brought > > > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > > the > > > > > plant > > > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > > > weeds we > > > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into > > a > > > > > tree. > > > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > > > > actual plant > > > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > Dear > > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > Regards ~ > > > Sanjay Rath > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Namaste, I had paid for the software initially and later when it became free for all, I remember a statement that if a person feels that he was charged too much PVR would return it. These charges were I believe for other things such as the ephemeris and Geographical Location .Nothing is free.  The charges were peanuts when compared to the time spent in developing it. One has to admit that he(pvr) had devoted so much time in researching the subject(What has worked and what has not) and just as Obama said We need courage, PVR is doing the right thing. Time will tell who was right or wrong and I am sure PVR will admit if he was wrong Nothing personal but a few thoughts Am welcoming Astrology Century 21 Krishna --- On Tue, 3/16/10, sivarama putcha <seshupsr wrote: sivarama putcha <seshupsr Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership vedic astrology Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:40 PM  Hare Rama Krishna.  This is Seshu Putcha from Boston. I have also known PVR and his family for over 10 years now. I wish to add to Narayanan's mail. I attend the classes in Boston from 2004 along with few others. We have not paid a single cent to PVR for the classes to-date. He has been absolutely clear on the point that we are doing this to spread the knowledge and not for money at all. These classes are absolutely free and we make them available to people all over for free download. This also proves the point that all accusations being made on the charging money for Jhora are also incorrect and baseless. If there was even a small motive to make money through jHora and be commercial, the classes for 6 years now could NOT have been free of charge at all. I hope those concerned realize the contributions that PVR made in this area. Even in all the conferences we had in East coast, people from out-station were hosted and there was no charge. I hope people put an end to false accusations and be truthful and thereby make a positive impact towards spiritual progress.  Regards Seshu Putcha p.s: I am also writing this on behalf of my fellow students in Boston.  --- On Sun, 3/14/10, naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer@ gmail.com> wrote: naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer@ gmail.com> [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership vedic astrology Sunday, March 14, 2010, 2:54 PM  Namaste Kiran, Well Said! I think your mail correctly and directly settles any doubt people may have on who is interested in charging money and who is interested in welfare of jyotish society. I know Narasimha & his family very very well, he has always been an avid proponent of not charging any money (keeping in free), and his activities in Boston has always been so, and even food has been provide free by his family members. Apart from this, those who had come from out-of-state were all hosted by him, his brother-in-law and other friends for free!! I was in the room in CA when decision was made by Sanjayji to put a fee on JHora and even told me and one other person, that we should be the first to pay up. I hope this clears it, once and for all!! Regards Narayan vedic astrology, " kiran.rama " <kiran.rama@ ...> wrote: > > Sarbani ji, > > If you really care for " free " , why are all your jyotish courses charged heavily? > Even readings have exorbitant charges? > Why do you advocate paid software like Sri Jyotish Star by Andrew? Have you checked if it has few/more errors? > > Don't try to take credit for his software. > SJC will come up with a software version for $2000 and charge $400 for introduction > > WIth all these different divisional charts and dasa systems, there is lot of confusion today. I am sure Narasimhaji will cleanse the world of astrology in the coming years > > Thanks > Kiran > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Sarbani Rath " <sarbani@> wrote: > > > > Jai Ramakrishna > > > > A few clarifications for those one or two persons in this list who may be > > interested in the reality. Akira Kurusowa in his epoch making film, > > Roshomon, showed that truth has many versions. Here is another. The > > following events took place in front of me and some other students: > > > > 1. Narasimha Rao had put a price on JHora like any other regular > > commerial software. At the first level, in 2003, Sanjayji requested him to > > introduce a special low rate for India. Many of us purchased the software at > > the low rate. In 2004, Sanjayji told him many time to make the software free > > and open source. But nothing materialised as Rao always said 'yes' and then > > never did anything. Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference in > > Mumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcement > > be made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. After > > this, it was immediately announced as free. Yes, of course it was a bit of > > struggle. The time when Rao was not very responsive to making it free, > > Sanjayji suggested many other models, one of which included the lite and > > professional version models. Many issues such as standardised fees for > > teaching etc was discussed, not only with Rao, but with other SJC gurus as > > well, though nothing was put in practice. This was an attempt to > > incorporate the needs and suggestions of many teachers who might have needed > > financial support. Evryone did not have cushy jobs in the corporate sector > > in the US. Many of you may not know these facts. > > > > 2. The software did originate as a sort of guru dakshina between > > Sanjayji and Rao, on the condition that Sanjayji taught him, and those > > teachings would be translated into the software. In return the software > > should be made available for the public. Sanjayji had suggested that the > > money earned from the software before it was made free should be used by Rao > > as he saw fit, for the development of SJC activities in the US, like > > conferences etc. Other students present during these discussions also gave > > their suggestions. However nothing materialised. Finally, Sanjayji suggested > > to Rao, in 2006-7 to donate that money to the Jagannath Temple in Puri. We > > dont know whether that happened or not. > > > > 3. Since 2007, Sanjayji has been advising his Jaimini students in the > > classroom NOT to use the software as there were too many erros in it. In > > fact, we make our dasa calculations by hand, even Narayana Dasa, or use > > alternate software. Many of the lat-long of cities are wrong, as are other > > technical details. It has been three years now that we have been bypassing > > and moving away from JHora. Already 2-3 people are working on an alternative > > software, which we are going to offer free in SJC. But a little more time is > > required for that. But perhaps most of you are not aware what we have been > > upto? Where we are, what we have been doing? > > > > 4. During the past 3 years, while Rao and his friends were busy jumping > > up and down in the list making sanctimonous noises and mud slinging by > > creating a holier-than- thou hubris, it gave Sanjayji the perfect space to > > start his actual parampara teachings for which he had been waiting all his > > life. Ask his band of 30-45 students who have been drinking in the nectar of > > the knowledge of the rishis since 2007. But I dont think even a single one > > of them wasted their time being provocated or involved in this quagmire > > which has been transpiring in this Vedic-Astrology list, nor are they likely > > to do so now. On behalf of all my colleagues I would like to thank you for > > creating this distraction of maya, which enabled us to go underground and > > dwell in the realm of pure knowledge. > > > > 5. What is happening now is good and perhaps necessary. Such has been > > the norm in the past. Dr. Raman suffered silently in deep anguish when his > > very famous student abused and maligned him. Perhaps he should have spoken > > up. Who knows. Perhaps these mad diatribes in emails are necessary to bring > > about the necessary " cleansing " and " de-weeding " which is now necessary for > > an organisation to grow and move forward. > > > > > > > > I know that a 10 feet long response would be hurled at me laced with twisted > > logic and virulent suppressed aggression; but this is my last and only email > > on the subject. I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to any > > further provocations that might be directed towards me. Namaste. > > > > > > > > At the lotus feet of Sri Ramakrishna, I remain, > > > > Sarbani Rath > > > > Homepage: <http://sarbani. com/> http://sarbani. com > > > > Sagittarius Publications: <http://sagittariusp ublications. com/> > > http://sagittariusp ublications. com > > > > Sohamsa: <http://sohamsa. com/> http://sohamsa. com > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre: <http:// .org/> http:// .org > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal [wavelogix@ ] > > 12 March 2010 12:25 > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > dear sanjay ji, > > namaste. > > > > maybe you do not have intentions of taking over jhora , but to the scores of > > upcoming jyotisas who look up to you , your hypothetical statements > > unfortunately do not convey honest intentions. so i believe it you should > > have been more mature on your part had you never said such hypothetical > > statements in the first place. > > > > regdarding whether narasimha has given you dakshina or not , why bother > > proving it to anyone? are you still bound to your ego that somehow wants to > > show that " sanjay rath is right " ? as you rightly said , shiva alone shows > > and knows satya , let it be unto him and you can simply carry on doing your > > own karma while narasimha does his. > > > > maybe you owed narasimha something over from past previous lifes that you > > simply repaid , so why now think whether dakshina was given or not? > > > > infact i dont know whats honestly in both of your hearts , but i do see > > narasimha making an effort and keeping a software foc , speding soo much > > time researching and trying to make it accurate itself shows no attachment > > to anything else than jyotisa. > > > > do not mind my words , for i speak unbiased and sometimes its others who > > make us realise. > > > > god bless, > > chandan singh. > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandan Singh > > > I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be made > > FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. > > > I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypothetical > > question and see the reaction. The question was based on one person saying > > that Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that is > > what I HAVE PROVED now. > > > His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referred > > to me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham. > > > I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred to > > meas trying to take over Jagannath Hora. > > > What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and then > > has to see these lies in his name ... > > > Shiva shows satya and He will > > > > > > Jai Bharati > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > dear narasimha , > > > > > > i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away > > jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at > > refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculations > > and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions. > > > > > > god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!! > > > > > > best regards, > > > chandan singh. > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an > > eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave > > JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going > > to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. > > I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the > > Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your > > effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, > > kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they > > are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but > > realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to > > them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the > > lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part > > ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take > > over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in > > JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first > > step of what he described. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some > > more time. > > > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations > > and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I > > said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, > > if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via > > a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can > > review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question > > about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, > > you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > Dear Raj > > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the > > person to whom you gave it? > > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of > > Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such > > things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the > > software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how > > is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very > > untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts > > right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling > > lies easily. > > > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are > > wrong. > > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by > > Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another > > old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief > > called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the > > responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic > > Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with > > this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the > > previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has > > become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to > > transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this > > list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > > Regards ~ > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > > > Shishya. > > > > > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > > following > > > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > > Narsimha > > > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum > > is > > > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > > > flaws with a number of features/calculatio ns/updation in the JHora. > > Lots > > > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > > interpretation > > > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/ scholar > > > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > > doing > > > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > > from > > > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > > change > > > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > > the > > > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > > Kunjis > > > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > > in > > > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > > PEACE. > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > > imperfect > > > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > > quite > > > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student > > in > > > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > > noticing > > > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon > > as > > > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that > > I > > > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > > gems > > > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > > god. > > > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, > > I > > > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > > in > > > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > > Sanjay > > > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > > for > > > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > > slowly. > > > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <JyotishGrou p%40. com> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > > > intelligent > > > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > > > afresh! I > > > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > > > freely, not > > > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > > > > seem to have > > > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > > seen > > > > > him > > > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > > received > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > > parampara > > > > > secrets, > > > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > > > > it would've > > > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > > > researcher > > > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > > > > many things > > > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > > to > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > > > testing. > > > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > > vague > > > > > logic that > > > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > > *ideas* > > > > > for > > > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > > sometimes > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > > > glorious > > > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > > badly > > > > > for > > > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > > now, > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > > > could not say > > > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > > > > not want to > > > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > > > master, I am > > > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > > > anger in my > > > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > > > > so as to > > > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > > > things. We > > > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > > glorifying > > > > > and even > > > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > > > room is > > > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > > > What we need > > > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > > > impassioned > > > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > > interest. > > > > > My > > > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > > next > > > > > decade and > > > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > > > astrology in > > > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > > Sri > > > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > > the > > > > > focus to > > > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > > Rath > > > > > took the > > > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > > and > > > > > brought > > > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > > the > > > > > plant > > > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > > > weeds we > > > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into > > a > > > > > tree. > > > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > > > > actual plant > > > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > Dear > > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > Regards ~ > > > Sanjay Rath > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Namaste friends, I appreciate the kind comments by all. However, I request to stop this line. Whether somebody is teaching genuine " parampara " knowledge or corrupting it by adding a lot of half-baked and unbaked research is relevant, even when unpleasant, to the Jyotish world. However, whether I am money-minded and sold Jyotish software while somebody else fought to make it free OR whether somebody else wanted me to charge and I reluctantly charged and finally managed to convince that person, is not quite relevant to the future of Jyotish. I was focusing on the corruptions in the knowledge, but I got upset with the allegation that somebody " fought " to make JHora free and got side-tracked. I should've ignored the allegations and not continued that line. My sincere apologies. As for corruptions in knowledge, it is useful to discuss. When a lineage is represented by just one person today and there is nobody else to whom the same knowledge was passed down independently and when people in the NEXT generation are considering a significant investment of their time and energy, then experiences and conclusions of the previous generation that went down that path are relevant and useful. In fact, it is the responsibility of a generation to educate and caution the next generation regarding the problems they encountered. However, the discussion got side-tracked and my apologies. Let us please stop this track. Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - vedic astrology , sivarama putcha <seshupsr wrote: > > Hare Rama Krishna. >  > This is Seshu Putcha from Boston. > I have also known PVR and his family for over 10 years now. I wish to add to Narayanan's mail. I attend the classes in Boston from 2004 along with few others. We have not paid a single cent to PVR for the classes to-date. He has been absolutely clear on the point that we are doing this to spread the knowledge and not for money at all. These classes are absolutely free and we make them available to people all over for free download. This also proves the point that all accusations being made on the charging money for Jhora are also incorrect and baseless. If there was even a small motive to make money through jHora and be commercial, the classes for 6 years now could NOT have been free of charge at all. I hope those concerned realize the contributions that PVR made in this area. > Even in all the conferences we had in East coast, people from out-station were hosted and there was no charge. I hope people put an end to false accusations and be truthful and thereby make a positive impact towards spiritual progress. >  > Regards > Seshu Putcha > p.s: I am also writing this on behalf of my fellow students in Boston. >  > > --- On Sun, 3/14/10, naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer wrote: > > > naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > vedic astrology > Sunday, March 14, 2010, 2:54 PM > > >  > > > > Namaste Kiran, > > Well Said! I think your mail correctly and directly settles any doubt people may have on who is interested in charging money and who is interested in welfare of jyotish society. > > I know Narasimha & his family very very well, he has always been an avid proponent of not charging any money (keeping in free), and his activities in Boston has always been so, and even food has been provide free by his family members. Apart from this, those who had come from out-of-state were all hosted by him, his brother-in-law and other friends for free!! > > I was in the room in CA when decision was made by Sanjayji to put a fee on JHora and even told me and one other person, that we should be the first to pay up. > > I hope this clears it, once and for all!! > > Regards > Narayan > vedic astrology, " kiran.rama " <kiran.rama@ ...> wrote: > > > > Sarbani ji, > > > > If you really care for " free " , why are all your jyotish courses charged heavily? > > Even readings have exorbitant charges? > > Why do you advocate paid software like Sri Jyotish Star by Andrew? Have you checked if it has few/more errors? > > > > Don't try to take credit for his software. > > SJC will come up with a software version for $2000 and charge $400 for introduction > > > > WIth all these different divisional charts and dasa systems, there is lot of confusion today. I am sure Narasimhaji will cleanse the world of astrology in the coming years > > > > Thanks > > Kiran > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Sarbani Rath " <sarbani@> wrote: > > > > > > Jai Ramakrishna > > > > > > A few clarifications for those one or two persons in this list who may be > > > interested in the reality. Akira Kurusowa in his epoch making film, > > > Roshomon, showed that truth has many versions. Here is another. The > > > following events took place in front of me and some other students: > > > > > > 1. Narasimha Rao had put a price on JHora like any other regular > > > commerial software. At the first level, in 2003, Sanjayji requested him to > > > introduce a special low rate for India. Many of us purchased the software at > > > the low rate. In 2004, Sanjayji told him many time to make the software free > > > and open source. But nothing materialised as Rao always said 'yes' and then > > > never did anything. Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference in > > > Mumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcement > > > be made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. After > > > this, it was immediately announced as free. Yes, of course it was a bit of > > > struggle. The time when Rao was not very responsive to making it free, > > > Sanjayji suggested many other models, one of which included the lite and > > > professional version models. Many issues such as standardised fees for > > > teaching etc was discussed, not only with Rao, but with other SJC gurus as > > > well, though nothing was put in practice. This was an attempt to > > > incorporate the needs and suggestions of many teachers who might have needed > > > financial support. Evryone did not have cushy jobs in the corporate sector > > > in the US. Many of you may not know these facts. > > > > > > 2. The software did originate as a sort of guru dakshina between > > > Sanjayji and Rao, on the condition that Sanjayji taught him, and those > > > teachings would be translated into the software. In return the software > > > should be made available for the public. Sanjayji had suggested that the > > > money earned from the software before it was made free should be used by Rao > > > as he saw fit, for the development of SJC activities in the US, like > > > conferences etc. Other students present during these discussions also gave > > > their suggestions. However nothing materialised. Finally, Sanjayji suggested > > > to Rao, in 2006-7 to donate that money to the Jagannath Temple in Puri. We > > > dont know whether that happened or not. > > > > > > 3. Since 2007, Sanjayji has been advising his Jaimini students in the > > > classroom NOT to use the software as there were too many erros in it. In > > > fact, we make our dasa calculations by hand, even Narayana Dasa, or use > > > alternate software. Many of the lat-long of cities are wrong, as are other > > > technical details. It has been three years now that we have been bypassing > > > and moving away from JHora. Already 2-3 people are working on an alternative > > > software, which we are going to offer free in SJC. But a little more time is > > > required for that. But perhaps most of you are not aware what we have been > > > upto? Where we are, what we have been doing? > > > > > > 4. During the past 3 years, while Rao and his friends were busy jumping > > > up and down in the list making sanctimonous noises and mud slinging by > > > creating a holier-than- thou hubris, it gave Sanjayji the perfect space to > > > start his actual parampara teachings for which he had been waiting all his > > > life. Ask his band of 30-45 students who have been drinking in the nectar of > > > the knowledge of the rishis since 2007. But I dont think even a single one > > > of them wasted their time being provocated or involved in this quagmire > > > which has been transpiring in this Vedic-Astrology list, nor are they likely > > > to do so now. On behalf of all my colleagues I would like to thank you for > > > creating this distraction of maya, which enabled us to go underground and > > > dwell in the realm of pure knowledge. > > > > > > 5. What is happening now is good and perhaps necessary. Such has been > > > the norm in the past. Dr. Raman suffered silently in deep anguish when his > > > very famous student abused and maligned him. Perhaps he should have spoken > > > up. Who knows. Perhaps these mad diatribes in emails are necessary to bring > > > about the necessary " cleansing " and " de-weeding " which is now necessary for > > > an organisation to grow and move forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that a 10 feet long response would be hurled at me laced with twisted > > > logic and virulent suppressed aggression; but this is my last and only email > > > on the subject. I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to any > > > further provocations that might be directed towards me. Namaste. > > > > > > > > > > > > At the lotus feet of Sri Ramakrishna, I remain, > > > > > > Sarbani Rath > > > > > > Homepage: <http://sarbani. com/> http://sarbani. com > > > > > > Sagittarius Publications: <http://sagittariusp ublications. com/> > > > http://sagittariusp ublications. com > > > > > > Sohamsa: <http://sohamsa. com/> http://sohamsa. com > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre: <http:// .org/> http:// .org > > > > > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal [wavelogix@ ] > > > 12 March 2010 12:25 > > > vedic astrology > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear sanjay ji, > > > namaste. > > > > > > maybe you do not have intentions of taking over jhora , but to the scores of > > > upcoming jyotisas who look up to you , your hypothetical statements > > > unfortunately do not convey honest intentions. so i believe it you should > > > have been more mature on your part had you never said such hypothetical > > > statements in the first place. > > > > > > regdarding whether narasimha has given you dakshina or not , why bother > > > proving it to anyone? are you still bound to your ego that somehow wants to > > > show that " sanjay rath is right " ? as you rightly said , shiva alone shows > > > and knows satya , let it be unto him and you can simply carry on doing your > > > own karma while narasimha does his. > > > > > > maybe you owed narasimha something over from past previous lifes that you > > > simply repaid , so why now think whether dakshina was given or not? > > > > > > infact i dont know whats honestly in both of your hearts , but i do see > > > narasimha making an effort and keeping a software foc , speding soo much > > > time researching and trying to make it accurate itself shows no attachment > > > to anything else than jyotisa. > > > > > > do not mind my words , for i speak unbiased and sometimes its others who > > > make us realise. > > > > > > god bless, > > > chandan singh. > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Chandan Singh > > > > I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be made > > > FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. > > > > I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypothetical > > > question and see the reaction. The question was based on one person saying > > > that Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that is > > > what I HAVE PROVED now. > > > > His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referred > > > to me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham. > > > > I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred to > > > meas trying to take over Jagannath Hora. > > > > What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and then > > > has to see these lies in his name ... > > > > Shiva shows satya and He will > > > > > > > > Jai Bharati > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear narasimha , > > > > > > > > i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away > > > jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at > > > refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculations > > > and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions. > > > > > > > > god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!! > > > > > > > > best regards, > > > > chandan singh. > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an > > > eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave > > > JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going > > > to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. > > > I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the > > > Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your > > > effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, > > > kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they > > > are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but > > > realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to > > > them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the > > > lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part > > > ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take > > > over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in > > > JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first > > > step of what he described. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some > > > more time. > > > > > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations > > > and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I > > > said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, > > > if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via > > > a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can > > > review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question > > > about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, > > > you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > Dear Raj > > > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the > > > person to whom you gave it? > > > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of > > > Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such > > > things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the > > > software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how > > > is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very > > > untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts > > > right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling > > > lies easily. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are > > > wrong. > > > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by > > > Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another > > > old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief > > > called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the > > > responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic > > > Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with > > > this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the > > > previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has > > > become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to > > > transfer -- > > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this > > > list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > > > Regards ~ > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > > > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > > > > Shishya. > > > > > > > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > > > following > > > > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > > > Narsimha > > > > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > > > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum > > > is > > > > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > > > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > > > > flaws with a number of features/calculatio ns/updation in the JHora. > > > Lots > > > > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > > > interpretation > > > > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/ scholar > > > > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > > > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > > > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > > > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > > > doing > > > > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > > > from > > > > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > > > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > > > change > > > > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > > > the > > > > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > > > Kunjis > > > > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > > > in > > > > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > > > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > > > PEACE. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > > > imperfect > > > > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > > > quite > > > > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > > > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > > > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > > > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > > > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student > > > in > > > > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > > > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > > > noticing > > > > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon > > > as > > > > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that > > > I > > > > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > > > gems > > > > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > > > god. > > > > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, > > > I > > > > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > > > in > > > > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > > > Sanjay > > > > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > > > for > > > > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > > > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > > > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > > > slowly. > > > > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <JyotishGrou p%40. com> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > > > > intelligent > > > > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > > > > afresh! I > > > > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > > > > freely, not > > > > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > > > > > seem to have > > > > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > > > seen > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > > > received > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > > > parampara > > > > > > secrets, > > > > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > > > > > it would've > > > > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > > > > researcher > > > > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > > > > > many things > > > > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > > > to > > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > > > > testing. > > > > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > > > vague > > > > > > logic that > > > > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > > > *ideas* > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > > > sometimes > > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > > > > glorious > > > > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > > > badly > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > > > now, > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > > > > could not say > > > > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > > > > > not want to > > > > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > > > > master, I am > > > > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > > > > anger in my > > > > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > > > > > so as to > > > > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > > > > things. We > > > > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > > > glorifying > > > > > > and even > > > > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > > > > room is > > > > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > > > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > > > > What we need > > > > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > > > > impassioned > > > > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > > > interest. > > > > > > My > > > > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > > > next > > > > > > decade and > > > > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > > > > astrology in > > > > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > > > Sri > > > > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > > > the > > > > > > focus to > > > > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > > > Rath > > > > > > took the > > > > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > > > and > > > > > > brought > > > > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > > > the > > > > > > plant > > > > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > > > > weeds we > > > > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into > > > a > > > > > > tree. > > > > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > > > > > actual plant > > > > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > Regards ~ > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > http://srath. cpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Namaste, My experience in this matter as an outsider is that whenever i tried to access something from PVR i got it free, while that of sanjay i had to pay for them or they are not available for free on the net.Its as simple as that. Praveen vedic astrology , sivarama putcha <seshupsr wrote: > > Hare Rama Krishna. >  > This is Seshu Putcha from Boston. > I have also known PVR and his family for over 10 years now. I wish to add to Narayanan's mail. I attend the classes in Boston from 2004 along with few others. We have not paid a single cent to PVR for the classes to-date. He has been absolutely clear on the point that we are doing this to spread the knowledge and not for money at all. These classes are absolutely free and we make them available to people all over for free download. This also proves the point that all accusations being made on the charging money for Jhora are also incorrect and baseless. If there was even a small motive to make money through jHora and be commercial, the classes for 6 years now could NOT have been free of charge at all. I hope those concerned realize the contributions that PVR made in this area. > Even in all the conferences we had in East coast, people from out-station were hosted and there was no charge. I hope people put an end to false accusations and be truthful and thereby make a positive impact towards spiritual progress. >  > Regards > Seshu Putcha > p.s: I am also writing this on behalf of my fellow students in Boston. >  > > --- On Sun, 3/14/10, naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer wrote: > > > naaraayana_iyer <narayan.iyer > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > vedic astrology > Sunday, March 14, 2010, 2:54 PM > > >  > > > > Namaste Kiran, > > Well Said! I think your mail correctly and directly settles any doubt people may have on who is interested in charging money and who is interested in welfare of jyotish society. > > I know Narasimha & his family very very well, he has always been an avid proponent of not charging any money (keeping in free), and his activities in Boston has always been so, and even food has been provide free by his family members. Apart from this, those who had come from out-of-state were all hosted by him, his brother-in-law and other friends for free!! > > I was in the room in CA when decision was made by Sanjayji to put a fee on JHora and even told me and one other person, that we should be the first to pay up. > > I hope this clears it, once and for all!! > > Regards > Narayan > vedic astrology, " kiran.rama " <kiran.rama@ ...> wrote: > > > > Sarbani ji, > > > > If you really care for " free " , why are all your jyotish courses charged heavily? > > Even readings have exorbitant charges? > > Why do you advocate paid software like Sri Jyotish Star by Andrew? Have you checked if it has few/more errors? > > > > Don't try to take credit for his software. > > SJC will come up with a software version for $2000 and charge $400 for introduction > > > > WIth all these different divisional charts and dasa systems, there is lot of confusion today. I am sure Narasimhaji will cleanse the world of astrology in the coming years > > > > Thanks > > Kiran > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Sarbani Rath " <sarbani@> wrote: > > > > > > Jai Ramakrishna > > > > > > A few clarifications for those one or two persons in this list who may be > > > interested in the reality. Akira Kurusowa in his epoch making film, > > > Roshomon, showed that truth has many versions. Here is another. The > > > following events took place in front of me and some other students: > > > > > > 1. Narasimha Rao had put a price on JHora like any other regular > > > commerial software. At the first level, in 2003, Sanjayji requested him to > > > introduce a special low rate for India. Many of us purchased the software at > > > the low rate. In 2004, Sanjayji told him many time to make the software free > > > and open source. But nothing materialised as Rao always said 'yes' and then > > > never did anything. Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference in > > > Mumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcement > > > be made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. After > > > this, it was immediately announced as free. Yes, of course it was a bit of > > > struggle. The time when Rao was not very responsive to making it free, > > > Sanjayji suggested many other models, one of which included the lite and > > > professional version models. Many issues such as standardised fees for > > > teaching etc was discussed, not only with Rao, but with other SJC gurus as > > > well, though nothing was put in practice. This was an attempt to > > > incorporate the needs and suggestions of many teachers who might have needed > > > financial support. Evryone did not have cushy jobs in the corporate sector > > > in the US. Many of you may not know these facts. > > > > > > 2. The software did originate as a sort of guru dakshina between > > > Sanjayji and Rao, on the condition that Sanjayji taught him, and those > > > teachings would be translated into the software. In return the software > > > should be made available for the public. Sanjayji had suggested that the > > > money earned from the software before it was made free should be used by Rao > > > as he saw fit, for the development of SJC activities in the US, like > > > conferences etc. Other students present during these discussions also gave > > > their suggestions. However nothing materialised. Finally, Sanjayji suggested > > > to Rao, in 2006-7 to donate that money to the Jagannath Temple in Puri. We > > > dont know whether that happened or not. > > > > > > 3. Since 2007, Sanjayji has been advising his Jaimini students in the > > > classroom NOT to use the software as there were too many erros in it. In > > > fact, we make our dasa calculations by hand, even Narayana Dasa, or use > > > alternate software. Many of the lat-long of cities are wrong, as are other > > > technical details. It has been three years now that we have been bypassing > > > and moving away from JHora. Already 2-3 people are working on an alternative > > > software, which we are going to offer free in SJC. But a little more time is > > > required for that. But perhaps most of you are not aware what we have been > > > upto? Where we are, what we have been doing? > > > > > > 4. During the past 3 years, while Rao and his friends were busy jumping > > > up and down in the list making sanctimonous noises and mud slinging by > > > creating a holier-than- thou hubris, it gave Sanjayji the perfect space to > > > start his actual parampara teachings for which he had been waiting all his > > > life. Ask his band of 30-45 students who have been drinking in the nectar of > > > the knowledge of the rishis since 2007. But I dont think even a single one > > > of them wasted their time being provocated or involved in this quagmire > > > which has been transpiring in this Vedic-Astrology list, nor are they likely > > > to do so now. On behalf of all my colleagues I would like to thank you for > > > creating this distraction of maya, which enabled us to go underground and > > > dwell in the realm of pure knowledge. > > > > > > 5. What is happening now is good and perhaps necessary. Such has been > > > the norm in the past. Dr. Raman suffered silently in deep anguish when his > > > very famous student abused and maligned him. Perhaps he should have spoken > > > up. Who knows. Perhaps these mad diatribes in emails are necessary to bring > > > about the necessary " cleansing " and " de-weeding " which is now necessary for > > > an organisation to grow and move forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that a 10 feet long response would be hurled at me laced with twisted > > > logic and virulent suppressed aggression; but this is my last and only email > > > on the subject. I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to any > > > further provocations that might be directed towards me. Namaste. > > > > > > > > > > > > At the lotus feet of Sri Ramakrishna, I remain, > > > > > > Sarbani Rath > > > > > > Homepage: <http://sarbani. com/> http://sarbani. com > > > > > > Sagittarius Publications: <http://sagittariusp ublications. com/> > > > http://sagittariusp ublications. com > > > > > > Sohamsa: <http://sohamsa. com/> http://sohamsa. com > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre: <http:// .org/> http:// .org > > > > > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal [wavelogix@ ] > > > 12 March 2010 12:25 > > > vedic astrology > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear sanjay ji, > > > namaste. > > > > > > maybe you do not have intentions of taking over jhora , but to the scores of > > > upcoming jyotisas who look up to you , your hypothetical statements > > > unfortunately do not convey honest intentions. so i believe it you should > > > have been more mature on your part had you never said such hypothetical > > > statements in the first place. > > > > > > regdarding whether narasimha has given you dakshina or not , why bother > > > proving it to anyone? are you still bound to your ego that somehow wants to > > > show that " sanjay rath is right " ? as you rightly said , shiva alone shows > > > and knows satya , let it be unto him and you can simply carry on doing your > > > own karma while narasimha does his. > > > > > > maybe you owed narasimha something over from past previous lifes that you > > > simply repaid , so why now think whether dakshina was given or not? > > > > > > infact i dont know whats honestly in both of your hearts , but i do see > > > narasimha making an effort and keeping a software foc , speding soo much > > > time researching and trying to make it accurate itself shows no attachment > > > to anything else than jyotisa. > > > > > > do not mind my words , for i speak unbiased and sometimes its others who > > > make us realise. > > > > > > god bless, > > > chandan singh. > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Chandan Singh > > > > I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be made > > > FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. > > > > I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypothetical > > > question and see the reaction. The question was based on one person saying > > > that Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that is > > > what I HAVE PROVED now. > > > > His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referred > > > to me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham. > > > > I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred to > > > meas trying to take over Jagannath Hora. > > > > What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and then > > > has to see these lies in his name ... > > > > Shiva shows satya and He will > > > > > > > > Jai Bharati > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear narasimha , > > > > > > > > i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away > > > jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at > > > refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculations > > > and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions. > > > > > > > > god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!! > > > > > > > > best regards, > > > > chandan singh. > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an > > > eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave > > > JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going > > > to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. > > > I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the > > > Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your > > > effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, > > > kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they > > > are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but > > > realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to > > > them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the > > > lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part > > > ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take > > > over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in > > > JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first > > > step of what he described. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some > > > more time. > > > > > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations > > > and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I > > > said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, > > > if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via > > > a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can > > > review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question > > > about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, > > > you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > Dear Raj > > > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the > > > person to whom you gave it? > > > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of > > > Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such > > > things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the > > > software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how > > > is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very > > > untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts > > > right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling > > > lies easily. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are > > > wrong. > > > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by > > > Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another > > > old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief > > > called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the > > > responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic > > > Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with > > > this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the > > > previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has > > > become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to > > > transfer -- > > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this > > > list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > > > Regards ~ > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> > > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > > > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > > > > Shishya. > > > > > > > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > > > following > > > > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > > > Narsimha > > > > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > > > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum > > > is > > > > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > > > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > > > > flaws with a number of features/calculatio ns/updation in the JHora. > > > Lots > > > > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > > > interpretation > > > > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/ scholar > > > > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > > > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > > > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > > > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > > > doing > > > > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > > > from > > > > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > > > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > > > change > > > > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > > > the > > > > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > > > Kunjis > > > > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > > > in > > > > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > > > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > > > PEACE. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > > > imperfect > > > > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > > > quite > > > > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > > > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > > > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > > > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > > > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student > > > in > > > > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > > > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > > > noticing > > > > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon > > > as > > > > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that > > > I > > > > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > > > gems > > > > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > > > god. > > > > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, > > > I > > > > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > > > in > > > > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > > > Sanjay > > > > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > > > for > > > > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > > > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > > > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > > > slowly. > > > > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <JyotishGrou p%40. com> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > > > occasion that > > > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > > > > intelligent > > > > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > > > > afresh! I > > > > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > > > > freely, not > > > > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > > > > > seem to have > > > > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > > > seen > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > > > received > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > > > parampara > > > > > > secrets, > > > > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > > > > > it would've > > > > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > > > > researcher > > > > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > > > > > many things > > > > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > > > to > > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > > > > testing. > > > > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > > > vague > > > > > > logic that > > > > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > > > *ideas* > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > > > sometimes > > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > > > > glorious > > > > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > > > badly > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > > > now, > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > > > > could not say > > > > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > > > > > not want to > > > > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > > > > master, I am > > > > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > > > > anger in my > > > > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > > > > > so as to > > > > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > > > > things. We > > > > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > > > glorifying > > > > > > and even > > > > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > > > > room is > > > > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > > > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > > > > What we need > > > > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > > > > impassioned > > > > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > > > interest. > > > > > > My > > > > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > > > next > > > > > > decade and > > > > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > > > > astrology in > > > > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > > > Sri > > > > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > > > the > > > > > > focus to > > > > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > > > Rath > > > > > > took the > > > > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > > > and > > > > > > brought > > > > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > > > the > > > > > > plant > > > > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > > > > weeds we > > > > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into > > > a > > > > > > tree. > > > > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > > > > > actual plant > > > > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > Regards ~ > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > http://srath. cpm > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.