Guest guest Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Dear TinWinji Ephemeris are based on geocentric position of planets. Being so, the tip of the Sun is set as default for Sunrise in KPASTRO 3.1, instead of center of the Sun. The refraction is not allowed in Sunrise. i.e. True Sunrise time is not set as default. The visible time is set as default. Though the Sunrise time is no way connected with KP calculation, I want to know the reason for the default setting. Dhanabalan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Dear Sirs,As a learner, I get confused with such intricacies discussed in this forum. And I am sure it is a deterrent to learners like me, I feel people should be attracted to learn KPasystem, and not the other way. Some of the discussions in this group is mind boggling and I am afraid what all the basics of KP learnt will be evaporated soon and his mind will be blank. Moderator should think of the learners.Swamynathan--- On Mon, 16/2/09, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan wrote:Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan Sunrise time in KP"kpsystem groups" Monday, 16 February, 2009, 8:31 PM Dear TinWinji Ephemeris are based on geocentric position of planets. Being so, the tip of the Sun is set as default for Sunrise in KPASTRO 3.1, instead of center of the Sun. The refraction is not allowed in Sunrise. i.e. True Sunrise time is not set as default. The visible time is set as default. Though the Sunrise time is no way connected with KP calculation, I want to know the reason for the default setting. Dhanabalan Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Respected Dhanabalanji, I don't deserve to stand in between you and Mr. TinWinji. However I would like to putforth few words from my small understanding. Yes, Sun-rise is considered when the top of the Sun is visible in the horizon. It is aso a fact that Sun-set is considered when that top of the Sun disappears from the horizon. Centre of the Sun is not considered. If we consider one event I think it will be clear. Supposing on 20th March Sun transits at 7 degrees in Pisces and Sun rises at 6 AM. this Sun-rise is considered when the top of Sun is visible. Only to day morning in the net I have found that it makes a difference of 1/2 minute from top of Sun to its center. So the centre to rise shall be after 2 minutes. Hence the center of Sun will rise at 6-02-00 AM. Therefore on that particular day Sun-rise time shall be 6-02-00 and not 6-00-00. If one finds the Ascendant of Zodiac at these two different times the Ascendant differs. Instead of 7 degrees in Pisces it shall be 7-02-00 Pisces. I hope I am right. I may be excused if I am wrong and me be guided. I request Mr. TinWinji also to give his comments. With Regards. Dr. Rath swamynathan iyer <swamynathaniyer Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:53:25 AMRe: Sunrise time in KP Dear Sirs,As a learner, I get confused with such intricacies discussed in this forum. And I am sure it is a deterrent to learners like me, I feel people should be attracted to learn KPasystem, and not the other way. Some of the discussions in this group is mind boggling and I am afraid what all the basics of KP learnt will be evaporated soon and his mind will be blank. Moderator should think of the learners.Swamynathan--- On Mon, 16/2/09, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ > wrote: Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ > Sunrise time in KP"kpsystem groups" <@gro ups.com>Monday, 16 February, 2009, 8:31 PM Dear TinWinji Ephemeris are based on geocentric position of planets. Being so, the tip of the Sun is set as default for Sunrise in KPASTRO 3.1, instead of center of the Sun. The refraction is not allowed in Sunrise. i.e. True Sunrise time is not set as default. The visible time is set as default. Though the Sunrise time is no way connected with KP calculation, I want to know the reason for the default setting. Dhanabalan Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Dear Lutherji There is no difference in Sun's longitude due to change in sunrise time. There is no difference in lagna position due to difference in Sun rise timing. KP calculations are not affected. But traditional calculations will affect. Traditioners follow Varahamihra method and fixing the tip of sun. Due to this confusion, different panchangam give different sunrise timings. In tradition, the time is converted into ghatis by subtracting the sunrise time. Dhanabalan--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Luther Rath <rathluther wrote: Luther Rath <rathlutherRe: Sunrise time in KP Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 12:44 PM Respected Dhanabalanji, I don't deserve to stand in between you and Mr. TinWinji. However I would like to putforth few words from my small understanding. Yes, Sun-rise is considered when the top of the Sun is visible in the horizon. It is aso a fact that Sun-set is considered when that top of the Sun disappears from the horizon. Centre of the Sun is not considered. If we consider one event I think it will be clear. Supposing on 20th March Sun transits at 7 degrees in Pisces and Sun rises at 6 AM. this Sun-rise is considered when the top of Sun is visible. Only to day morning in the net I have found that it makes a difference of 1/2 minute from top of Sun to its center. So the centre to rise shall be after 2 minutes. Hence the center of Sun will rise at 6-02-00 AM. Therefore on that particular day Sun-rise time shall be 6-02-00 and not 6-00-00. If one finds the Ascendant of Zodiac at these two different times the Ascendant differs. Instead of 7 degrees in Pisces it shall be 7-02-00 Pisces. I hope I am right. I may be excused if I am wrong and me be guided. I request Mr. TinWinji also to give his comments. With Regards. Dr. Rath swamynathan iyer <swamynathaniyer@ .co. in>@gro ups.comTuesday, February 17, 2009 6:53:25 AMRe: Sunrise time in KP Dear Sirs,As a learner, I get confused with such intricacies discussed in this forum. And I am sure it is a deterrent to learners like me, I feel people should be attracted to learn KPasystem, and not the other way. Some of the discussions in this group is mind boggling and I am afraid what all the basics of KP learnt will be evaporated soon and his mind will be blank. Moderator should think of the learners.Swamynathan--- On Mon, 16/2/09, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ > wrote: Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ > Sunrise time in KP"kpsystem groups" <@gro ups.com>Monday, 16 February, 2009, 8:31 PM Dear TinWinji Ephemeris are based on geocentric position of planets. Being so, the tip of the Sun is set as default for Sunrise in KPASTRO 3.1, instead of center of the Sun. The refraction is not allowed in Sunrise. i.e. True Sunrise time is not set as default. The visible time is set as default. Though the Sunrise time is no way connected with KP calculation, I want to know the reason for the default setting. Dhanabalan Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Dear Dhanabalan, Tin Win drew my attention to your query regarding KPAstro. Let me explain what little I know. 1) " Ephemeris are based on geocentric position of planets. Being so, the tip of the Sun is set as default for Sunrise in KPASTRO 3.1, instead of center of the Sun. " As far as I know, 'geocentric' position of a planet means 'position of the planet as observed from center of the earth' and not 'position of center of the planet as observed from the earth' as you seem to have understood. So there is nothing inherently contradictory in what KPAstro does by default. 2) " The refraction is not allowed in Sunrise. " I would like to know the logical basis for your assertion. It would be nice if you can quote any eminent astrologer (or astronomer) who makes this claim. In any software, options are given so that users can set them to their preferred values. Default values are supplied so that lay users of the software do not have to worry about intricate details. In the same spirit, we defined certain default values in KPAstro based sometimes on our gut feeling that these were appropriate and occasionally based on discussions we would have had with some experienced astrologers. So I feel that there is no need to get into any serious discussion as to why a software developer set something as a default. In KPAstro, the settings you refer to were not available in the initial versions, so when the settings were introduced subsequently, we felt we should not break existing users, so we did it the way it currently is. After all, it takes just few seconds to configure what works for us. Regards, Rangarajan , Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan wrote: > > Dear TinWinji > Ephemeris are based on geocentric position of planets. Being so, the tip of the Sun is set as default for Sunrise in KPASTRO 3.1, instead of center of the Sun. The refraction is not allowed in Sunrise. i.e. True Sunrise time is not set as default. The visible time is set as default.. Though the Sunrise time is no way connected with KP calculation, I want to know the reason for the default setting. > Dhanabalan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Dear Rangarajan Thank you for your response. During 2005, I was advised by some KP astrologers to use disc center with refraction option. I was using in the same way. After going through the charts from KPASTRO, I changed my default setting in par with KPASTRO, which is agreeable with tradition. Varahamihra recommended the sun's tip without refraction. The difference in Sunrise between the two settings is about 4 minutes. Sunrise time importance is given in tradition and not in KP. Dhanabalan--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga wrote: Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga Re: Sunrise time in KP Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 4:20 AM Dear Dhanabalan,Tin Win drew my attention to your query regarding KPAstro. Let meexplain what little I know.1) "Ephemeris are based on geocentric position of planets. Being so, the tip of the Sun is set as default for Sunrise in KPASTRO 3.1,instead of center of the Sun."As far as I know, 'geocentric' position of a planet means 'position ofthe planet as observed from center of the earth' and not 'position ofcenter of the planet as observed from the earth' as you seem to haveunderstood. So there is nothing inherently contradictory in whatKPAstro does by default. 2) "The refraction is not allowed in Sunrise."I would like to know the logical basis for your assertion. It would benice if you can quote any eminent astrologer (or astronomer) who makesthis claim.In any software, options are given so that users can set them to theirpreferred values. Default values are supplied so that lay users of thesoftware do not have to worry about intricate details. In the samespirit, we defined certain default values in KPAstro based sometimeson our gut feeling that these were appropriate and occasionally basedon discussions we would have had with some experienced astrologers. SoI feel that there is no need to get into any serious discussion as towhy a software developer set something as a default. In KPAstro, thesettings you refer to were not available in the initial versions, sowhen the settings were introduced subsequently, we felt we should notbreak existing users, so we did it the way it currently is. After all,it takes just few seconds to configure what works for us.Regards,Rangarajan@gro ups.com, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ ...> wrote:>> Dear TinWinji> Ephemeris are based on geocentric position of planets. Being so, the tip of the Sun is set as default for Sunrise in KPASTRO 3.1,instead of center of the Sun. The refraction is not allowed inSunrise. i.e. True Sunrise time is not set as default. The visibletime is set as default.. Though the Sunrise time is no way connectedwith KP calculation, I want to know the reason for the default setting.> Dhanabalan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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