Parivartana (earnest request to use a litmus test for the theory)

[Guest guest]

Dear Sharat, Ramesh and Swee-ji,

I apologize in advance for being a little direct, but the

Parivartana point is not driven home (at least not to me). Being of

I hope around average intelligence, I assume that if I am not very

clear, then there must be a significant bunch of people on this

group who are ALSO not clear, but arent plucking up the courage to

say so.

 

On behalf of all of us, may I suggest an approach to cut through

this uncertainty (I have used this principle successfully in my

researches in non-astrological subjects, so I do have a bit of

experience just not in astrology):

1) Please take a chart which acts as a litmus test for the

Parivartana theory. By a litmus test I mean something that clearly

proves or disproves a theory. Realistically speaking, taking two

averagely happy (at least) planets in Parivartana, which are not too

unhappy even after they exchange signs or houses(using theory " a " or

theory " b " ), and the resulting dasas and antaras are also not too

good or bad, WILL NOT do us much good in clearly proving any theory.

So you have to take a litmus test. I will give that to you right

after my second point.

 

2) To help earnest idiots like myself, and trust me, you have to do

it only once, please go through the following exercise - when you

say that there is any exchange of signs or rasis in Parivartana e.g.

when you say Saturn in Libra in 6 is exchanging with Venus in

Aquarius in 10, you have two exchange possibilities (a) Saturn in

Aquarius in 10 and Venus in Libra in 6 and (b) Saturn in Aquarius in

6 and Venus in Libra in 10. Now, WHICHEVER option you choose " a "

or " b " please explain two things in the same post - (1) What would

have happened if the planets were REALLY in those signs and houses

and (2) What happens when those planets APPEAR to be in those signs

and houses due to parivartana. That way, we really get to understand

how parivartana is DIFFERENT from really being there.

 

And here is the litmus test:

20 November 1969, 21:31pm, GMT+5:30, 79E02, 28N49, Female.

 

Debilitated Retrograde 8th Lord in 10th Saturn exchanges with

exalted gopuramsa Ruchaka Yoga Mars in 7th.

 

Venus in moolatrikona in 4th forming Malavya yoga, Venus in

gopuramsa.

 

Take two antaras - Venus-Mars in 1990, and Venus-Saturn in 1996-1999.

Please use your parivartana principles to say something about the

antaras. Note: this is a litmus test as I have already disclosed,

huge amounts of results were felt in each antara.

 

Thank you and pardon me for my directness and effrontery.

 

Sundeep

[Guest guest]

Hare Ram Krishna

 

Dear Sundeep,

I agree the opinions are varying and I am not completely clear about it either; that is why I have continued the thread.

Let us use the chart you provided to clear the rules regarding parivartana yoga as it involves a benefic and malefic.This one does not involve Lagnesh but we can take up that example later.

 

Sharat

 

 

 

-

vedicastrostudent

sohamsa

Thursday, January 18, 2007 8:11 PM

Re: Parivartana (earnest request to use a litmus test for the theory)

 

 

Dear Sharat, Ramesh and Swee-ji,I apologize in advance for being a little direct, but the Parivartana point is not driven home (at least not to me). Being of I hope around average intelligence, I assume that if I am not very clear, then there must be a significant bunch of people on this group who are ALSO not clear, but arent plucking up the courage to say so. On behalf of all of us, may I suggest an approach to cut through this uncertainty (I have used this principle successfully in my researches in non-astrological subjects, so I do have a bit of experience just not in astrology):1) Please take a chart which acts as a litmus test for the Parivartana theory. By a litmus test I mean something that clearly proves or disproves a theory. Realistically speaking, taking two averagely happy (at least) planets in Parivartana, which are not too unhappy even after they exchange signs or houses(using theory "a" or theory "b"), and the resulting dasas and antaras are also not too good or bad, WILL NOT do us much good in clearly proving any theory. So you have to take a litmus test. I will give that to you right after my second point.2) To help earnest idiots like myself, and trust me, you have to do it only once, please go through the following exercise - when you say that there is any exchange of signs or rasis in Parivartana e.g. when you say Saturn in Libra in 6 is exchanging with Venus in Aquarius in 10, you have two exchange possibilities (a) Saturn in Aquarius in 10 and Venus in Libra in 6 and (b) Saturn in Aquarius in 6 and Venus in Libra in 10. Now, WHICHEVER option you choose "a" or "b" please explain two things in the same post - (1) What would have happened if the planets were REALLY in those signs and houses and (2) What happens when those planets APPEAR to be in those signs and houses due to parivartana. That way, we really get to understand how parivartana is DIFFERENT from really being there.And here is the litmus test:20 November 1969, 21:31pm, GMT+5:30, 79E02, 28N49, Female.Debilitated Retrograde 8th Lord in 10th Saturn exchanges with exalted gopuramsa Ruchaka Yoga Mars in 7th.Venus in moolatrikona in 4th forming Malavya yoga, Venus in gopuramsa.Take two antaras - Venus-Mars in 1990, and Venus-Saturn in 1996-1999.Please use your parivartana principles to say something about the antaras. Note: this is a litmus test as I have already disclosed, huge amounts of results were felt in each antara. Thank you and pardon me for my directness and effrontery.Sundeep

[Guest guest]

Jaya Jagannatha

 

Dear Sundeep,

Namaste

 

The exchange here is Mars and Saturn between the 7th and the 10th and has nothing to do with Venus and Jupiter and the other exchange is between Sun and Ketu.

Firstly, begin with the gross indications of the mahadasa. What’s your settings? I am a month out in your timing.

 

Love,

 

Swee

 

 

 

On 1/18/07 10:11 PM, " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sharat, Ramesh and Swee-ji,

I apologize in advance for being a little direct, but the

Parivartana point is not driven home (at least not to me). Being of

I hope around average intelligence, I assume that if I am not very

clear, then there must be a significant bunch of people on this

group who are ALSO not clear, but arent plucking up the courage to

say so.

 

On behalf of all of us, may I suggest an approach to cut through

this uncertainty (I have used this principle successfully in my

researches in non-astrological subjects, so I do have a bit of

experience just not in astrology):

1) Please take a chart which acts as a litmus test for the

Parivartana theory. By a litmus test I mean something that clearly

proves or disproves a theory. Realistically speaking, taking two

averagely happy (at least) planets in Parivartana, which are not too

unhappy even after they exchange signs or houses(using theory " a " or

theory " b " ), and the resulting dasas and antaras are also not too

good or bad, WILL NOT do us much good in clearly proving any theory.

So you have to take a litmus test. I will give that to you right

after my second point.

 

2) To help earnest idiots like myself, and trust me, you have to do

it only once, please go through the following exercise - when you

say that there is any exchange of signs or rasis in Parivartana e.g.

when you say Saturn in Libra in 6 is exchanging with Venus in

Aquarius in 10, you have two exchange possibilities (a) Saturn in

Aquarius in 10 and Venus in Libra in 6 and (b) Saturn in Aquarius in

6 and Venus in Libra in 10. Now, WHICHEVER option you choose " a "

or " b " please explain two things in the same post - (1) What would

have happened if the planets were REALLY in those signs and houses

and (2) What happens when those planets APPEAR to be in those signs

and houses due to parivartana. That way, we really get to understand

how parivartana is DIFFERENT from really being there.

 

And here is the litmus test:

20 November 1969, 21:31pm, GMT+5:30, 79E02, 28N49, Female.

 

Debilitated Retrograde 8th Lord in 10th Saturn exchanges with

exalted gopuramsa Ruchaka Yoga Mars in 7th.

 

Venus in moolatrikona in 4th forming Malavya yoga, Venus in

gopuramsa.

 

Take two antaras - Venus-Mars in 1990, and Venus-Saturn in 1996-1999.

Please use your parivartana principles to say something about the

antaras. Note: this is a litmus test as I have already disclosed,

huge amounts of results were felt in each antara.

 

Thank you and pardon me for my directness and effrontery.

 

Sundeep

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Swee-ji,

I have all the default settings in Jhora. I probably specified the

dasas slightly off. I have:

Venus-Mars: 1989-01-20 to 1990-03-21

Venus-Saturn: 1995-11-23 to 1999-01-21

I understand that Venus doesnt have anything to do with the

exchange. But are you making a categorical statement that the

exchanging planets will show exchanged effects ONLY during each

other's mahadashas, and NOT AT ALL during the mahadashas of other

planets? While Visti's Parivartana document does say:

 

" During the mahä daçä of the planets involved in the parivartana,

and those joined, the world

would see the effects of this yoga working. "

 

It is still not explicitly stated that the parivartana would be

completely non-functional in other dasas, which would be a strong

statement, IMHO. So I assumed that Venus-Mars and Venus-Saturn would

at least show the general effects of the parivartana, but not as

much as say, Mars-Mars, Mars-Saturn, Saturn-Mars or Saturn-Saturn.

 

What is your opinion? As I said earlier, the reason I take this

example is that the actual results felt during each of the two

antaras in Venus are huge, and they will either validate or

invalidate any parivartana theory, if a parivartana theory is

applicable in these antaras.

 

I hesitate to venture any analysis myself since I know the actual

results inside out.

 

Thanks,

 

Sundeep

 

 

 

sohamsa , Swee Chan <sweechan wrote:

>

>

> Jaya Jagannatha

>

> Dear Sundeep,

> Namaste

>

> The exchange here is Mars and Saturn between the 7th and the 10th

and has

> nothing to do with Venus and Jupiter and the other exchange is

between Sun

> and Ketu.

> Firstly, begin with the gross indications of the mahadasa. What¹s

your

> settings? I am a month out in your timing.

>

> Love,

>

> Swee

>

>

>

> On 1/18/07 10:11 PM, " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Sharat, Ramesh and Swee-ji,

> > I apologize in advance for being a little direct, but the

> > Parivartana point is not driven home (at least not to me). Being

of

> > I hope around average intelligence, I assume that if I am not

very

> > clear, then there must be a significant bunch of people on this

> > group who are ALSO not clear, but arent plucking up the courage

to

> > say so.

> >

> > On behalf of all of us, may I suggest an approach to cut through

> > this uncertainty (I have used this principle successfully in my

> > researches in non-astrological subjects, so I do have a bit of

> > experience just not in astrology):

> > 1) Please take a chart which acts as a litmus test for the

> > Parivartana theory. By a litmus test I mean something that

clearly

> > proves or disproves a theory. Realistically speaking, taking two

> > averagely happy (at least) planets in Parivartana, which are not

too

> > unhappy even after they exchange signs or houses(using

theory " a " or

> > theory " b " ), and the resulting dasas and antaras are also not too

> > good or bad, WILL NOT do us much good in clearly proving any

theory.

> > So you have to take a litmus test. I will give that to you right

> > after my second point.

> >

> > 2) To help earnest idiots like myself, and trust me, you have to

do

> > it only once, please go through the following exercise - when you

> > say that there is any exchange of signs or rasis in Parivartana

e.g.

> > when you say Saturn in Libra in 6 is exchanging with Venus in

> > Aquarius in 10, you have two exchange possibilities (a) Saturn in

> > Aquarius in 10 and Venus in Libra in 6 and (b) Saturn in

Aquarius in

> > 6 and Venus in Libra in 10. Now, WHICHEVER option you choose " a "

> > or " b " please explain two things in the same post - (1) What

would

> > have happened if the planets were REALLY in those signs and

houses

> > and (2) What happens when those planets APPEAR to be in those

signs

> > and houses due to parivartana. That way, we really get to

understand

> > how parivartana is DIFFERENT from really being there.

> >

> > And here is the litmus test:

> > 20 November 1969, 21:31pm, GMT+5:30, 79E02, 28N49, Female.

> >

> > Debilitated Retrograde 8th Lord in 10th Saturn exchanges with

> > exalted gopuramsa Ruchaka Yoga Mars in 7th.

> >

> > Venus in moolatrikona in 4th forming Malavya yoga, Venus in

> > gopuramsa.

> >

> > Take two antaras - Venus-Mars in 1990, and Venus-Saturn in 1996-

1999.

> > Please use your parivartana principles to say something about the

> > antaras. Note: this is a litmus test as I have already disclosed,

> > huge amounts of results were felt in each antara.

> >

> > Thank you and pardon me for my directness and effrontery.

> >

> > Sundeep

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jaya Jagannatha

 

Dear Sundeep,

Namaste

 

Read Venus-Mars as Venus-Saturn and vice versa. A mahadasa indicates events on the general/gross level. Antardasas indicate the event that is likely to take place. The actual event is the PD. Taking Moon as the “lagna” as it is the strongest, then Mars is maraka. The residual effect of Saturn as karaka of the dead is also there. The 7th from Venus with UL and A7 being there too also shows “death” of a relationship. If the event took place during PD of Sun “death” of a child, it is the badhakesh for Venus MD, if it is the PD of Moon, it is in trines to the badhakesh....delineate yourself

 

Does this make sense?

 

Love,

 

Swee

 

 

On 1/20/07 12:14 AM, " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Swee-ji,

I have all the default settings in Jhora. I probably specified the

dasas slightly off. I have:

Venus-Mars: 1989-01-20 to 1990-03-21

Venus-Saturn: 1995-11-23 to 1999-01-21

I understand that Venus doesnt have anything to do with the

exchange. But are you making a categorical statement that the

exchanging planets will show exchanged effects ONLY during each

other's mahadashas, and NOT AT ALL during the mahadashas of other

planets? While Visti's Parivartana document does say:

 

" During the mahä daçä of the planets involved in the parivartana,

and those joined, the world

would see the effects of this yoga working. "

 

It is still not explicitly stated that the parivartana would be

completely non-functional in other dasas, which would be a strong

statement, IMHO. So I assumed that Venus-Mars and Venus-Saturn would

at least show the general effects of the parivartana, but not as

much as say, Mars-Mars, Mars-Saturn, Saturn-Mars or Saturn-Saturn.

 

What is your opinion? As I said earlier, the reason I take this

example is that the actual results felt during each of the two

antaras in Venus are huge, and they will either validate or

invalidate any parivartana theory, if a parivartana theory is

applicable in these antaras.

 

I hesitate to venture any analysis myself since I know the actual

results inside out.

 

Thanks,

 

Sundeep

 

sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , Swee Chan <sweechan wrote:

>

>

> Jaya Jagannatha

>

> Dear Sundeep,

> Namaste

>

> The exchange here is Mars and Saturn between the 7th and the 10th

and has

> nothing to do with Venus and Jupiter and the other exchange is

between Sun

> and Ketu.

> Firstly, begin with the gross indications of the mahadasa. What’s

your

> settings? I am a month out in your timing.

>

> Love,

>

> Swee

>

>

>

> On 1/18/07 10:11 PM, " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Sharat, Ramesh and Swee-ji,

> > I apologize in advance for being a little direct, but the

> > Parivartana point is not driven home (at least not to me). Being

of

> > I hope around average intelligence, I assume that if I am not

very

> > clear, then there must be a significant bunch of people on this

> > group who are ALSO not clear, but arent plucking up the courage

to

> > say so.

> >

> > On behalf of all of us, may I suggest an approach to cut through

> > this uncertainty (I have used this principle successfully in my

> > researches in non-astrological subjects, so I do have a bit of

> > experience just not in astrology):

> > 1) Please take a chart which acts as a litmus test for the

> > Parivartana theory. By a litmus test I mean something that

clearly

> > proves or disproves a theory. Realistically speaking, taking two

> > averagely happy (at least) planets in Parivartana, which are not

too

> > unhappy even after they exchange signs or houses(using

theory " a " or

> > theory " b " ), and the resulting dasas and antaras are also not too

> > good or bad, WILL NOT do us much good in clearly proving any

theory.

> > So you have to take a litmus test. I will give that to you right

> > after my second point.

> >

> > 2) To help earnest idiots like myself, and trust me, you have to

do

> > it only once, please go through the following exercise - when you

> > say that there is any exchange of signs or rasis in Parivartana

e.g.

> > when you say Saturn in Libra in 6 is exchanging with Venus in

> > Aquarius in 10, you have two exchange possibilities (a) Saturn in

> > Aquarius in 10 and Venus in Libra in 6 and (b) Saturn in

Aquarius in

> > 6 and Venus in Libra in 10. Now, WHICHEVER option you choose " a "

> > or " b " please explain two things in the same post - (1) What

would

> > have happened if the planets were REALLY in those signs and

houses

> > and (2) What happens when those planets APPEAR to be in those

signs

> > and houses due to parivartana. That way, we really get to

understand

> > how parivartana is DIFFERENT from really being there.

> >

> > And here is the litmus test:

> > 20 November 1969, 21:31pm, GMT+5:30, 79E02, 28N49, Female.

> >

> > Debilitated Retrograde 8th Lord in 10th Saturn exchanges with

> > exalted gopuramsa Ruchaka Yoga Mars in 7th.

> >

> > Venus in moolatrikona in 4th forming Malavya yoga, Venus in

> > gopuramsa.

> >

> > Take two antaras - Venus-Mars in 1990, and Venus-Saturn in 1996-

1999.

> > Please use your parivartana principles to say something about the

> > antaras. Note: this is a litmus test as I have already disclosed,

> > huge amounts of results were felt in each antara.

> >

> > Thank you and pardon me for my directness and effrontery.

> >

> > Sundeep

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama krsna Hello Sundeepji

Has the person had two marriages in the given time periods?Swati

namah shivayaOn 1/20/07, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Swee-ji,

I have all the default settings in Jhora. I probably specified the

dasas slightly off. I have:

Venus-Mars: 1989-01-20 to 1990-03-21

Venus-Saturn: 1995-11-23 to 1999-01-21

I understand that Venus doesnt have anything to do with the

exchange. But are you making a categorical statement that the

exchanging planets will show exchanged effects ONLY during each

other's mahadashas, and NOT AT ALL during the mahadashas of other

planets? While Visti's Parivartana document does say:

 

" During the mahä daçä of the planets involved in the parivartana,

and those joined, the world

would see the effects of this yoga working. "

 

It is still not explicitly stated that the parivartana would be

completely non-functional in other dasas, which would be a strong

statement, IMHO. So I assumed that Venus-Mars and Venus-Saturn would

at least show the general effects of the parivartana, but not as

much as say, Mars-Mars, Mars-Saturn, Saturn-Mars or Saturn-Saturn.

 

What is your opinion? As I said earlier, the reason I take this

example is that the actual results felt during each of the two

antaras in Venus are huge, and they will either validate or

invalidate any parivartana theory, if a parivartana theory is

applicable in these antaras.

 

I hesitate to venture any analysis myself since I know the actual

results inside out.

 

Thanks,

 

Sundeep

 

sohamsa , Swee Chan <sweechan wrote:

>

>

> Jaya Jagannatha

>

> Dear Sundeep,

> Namaste

>

> The exchange here is Mars and Saturn between the 7th and the 10th

and has

> nothing to do with Venus and Jupiter and the other exchange is

between Sun

> and Ketu.

> Firstly, begin with the gross indications of the mahadasa. What¹s

your

> settings? I am a month out in your timing.

>

> Love,

>

> Swee

>

>

>

> On 1/18/07 10:11 PM, " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Sharat, Ramesh and Swee-ji,

> > I apologize in advance for being a little direct, but the

> > Parivartana point is not driven home (at least not to me). Being

of

> > I hope around average intelligence, I assume that if I am not

very

> > clear, then there must be a significant bunch of people on this

> > group who are ALSO not clear, but arent plucking up the courage

to

> > say so.

> >

> > On behalf of all of us, may I suggest an approach to cut through

> > this uncertainty (I have used this principle successfully in my

> > researches in non-astrological subjects, so I do have a bit of

> > experience just not in astrology):

> > 1) Please take a chart which acts as a litmus test for the

> > Parivartana theory. By a litmus test I mean something that

clearly

> > proves or disproves a theory. Realistically speaking, taking two

> > averagely happy (at least) planets in Parivartana, which are not

too

> > unhappy even after they exchange signs or houses(using

theory " a " or

> > theory " b " ), and the resulting dasas and antaras are also not too

> > good or bad, WILL NOT do us much good in clearly proving any

theory.

> > So you have to take a litmus test. I will give that to you right

> > after my second point.

> >

> > 2) To help earnest idiots like myself, and trust me, you have to

do

> > it only once, please go through the following exercise - when you

> > say that there is any exchange of signs or rasis in Parivartana

e.g.

> > when you say Saturn in Libra in 6 is exchanging with Venus in

> > Aquarius in 10, you have two exchange possibilities (a) Saturn in

> > Aquarius in 10 and Venus in Libra in 6 and (b) Saturn in

Aquarius in

> > 6 and Venus in Libra in 10. Now, WHICHEVER option you choose " a "

> > or " b " please explain two things in the same post - (1) What

would

> > have happened if the planets were REALLY in those signs and

houses

> > and (2) What happens when those planets APPEAR to be in those

signs

> > and houses due to parivartana. That way, we really get to

understand

> > how parivartana is DIFFERENT from really being there.

> >

> > And here is the litmus test:

> > 20 November 1969, 21:31pm, GMT+5:30, 79E02, 28N49, Female.

> >

> > Debilitated Retrograde 8th Lord in 10th Saturn exchanges with

> > exalted gopuramsa Ruchaka Yoga Mars in 7th.

> >

> > Venus in moolatrikona in 4th forming Malavya yoga, Venus in

> > gopuramsa.

> >

> > Take two antaras - Venus-Mars in 1990, and Venus-Saturn in 1996-

1999.

> > Please use your parivartana principles to say something about the

> > antaras. Note: this is a litmus test as I have already disclosed,

> > huge amounts of results were felt in each antara.

> >

> > Thank you and pardon me for my directness and effrontery.

> >

> > Sundeep

> >

> >

> >

>