Guest guest Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Namaste friends, I know that this issue of Swami Vivekananda dismissing fate and astrology in a lecture came up earlier also. Let me share my 2 cents on that. > let's not be oblivious to some rather famous and great names of the past> being skeptical of astrology. If we penned a list, Swami Vivekananda would> be certainly be the top seed. Suppose I am watching a movie with my children. Suppose the hero, who my child self-identifies with while watching the movie, is badly hurt by the villain. Suppose my child is very badly upset because of it. If my child is mature enough, I can explain that this movie is not really happening (even though it seems to happen live on the big screen in front of us) and hence one need not worry about a "delusion" that is playing out on the screen. However, if another child of mine is not mature enough to understand and appreciate that, I may not want to confuse. I may just re-assure that the hero is after all going to be fine and recover to hit back at the villain soon. If I have means to guess it, I may even guess that the hero is going to hit back after 5 minutes 20 seconds. That makes the child happy. This is bad in a way because the child will continue to stay in the delusion that what is happening on the screen is real in some way and it is ok to be emotionally affected by it. But, that child is not ready for more. If my answer to a child in a simplistic scenario such as the above (if you can, please note that some details in this example are carefully chosen to reflect on the role of astrology/astrologer) can be different based on my perception of the maturity level of the child, why can't the answers of a spiritual master to seekers be different based on the maturity level of the audience? Swami Vivekananda was a great teacher of masses and he did not want to confuse his audiences. He would focus on one point, based on his audience, and drive his point passionately. Because of the passion to drive his point home, he would sometimes over-state something, strictly within a particular context. If you take it out of context, it loses its meaning. In the context of this world appearance being a delusion and in the context of one having to rise above it and not be bound by the delusion of world appearance, it is completely true that astrology is a useless subject. But, if you take the context away and come to the context of a normal layman's daily life, then astrology is a very useful subject (assuming you have a genuine, learned and honest astrologer helping you). Bottomline is that not every statement made by Swami Vivekananda represents his real view. After all, he is a rishi. His understanding is so subtle and supreme that it cannot be completely captured by his audience listening to his lecture (vaikhari). The lecture only captures a small portion of his understanding. The audience of his lecture is akin to my children who listen to me in the example at the beginning of this mail! My answers are fine-tuned for each child and they do not reflect my complete views. Same holds for Swami Vivekananda's lectures. People have taken a statement of Swami Vivekananda out of context and jumped to a conclusion that he questioned astrology. It is one thing to question the sincerity of most astrologers, the correctness of astrology as understood today and the validity of overly relying on astrology, but quite another to absolutely dismiss fate and astrology. A reborn rishi like Swami Vivekananda simply could not have dismissed a Vedanga altogether. I am 100% sure that Swami Vivekananda's said quote is a misunderstood one. In fact, I understand that Swami Vivekananda had a passing knowledge of astrology and he referred to a printed panchange before withdrawing into his room for his mahasamadhi. Some of his close associates, such as Swami Vijnanananda, were scholars of Jyotisha. May the light of Brahman shine within, Narasimha -------------------------------Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Hare Rama Krishna, Dear Narasimha P.V.R. Rao, Namaskar, like with everything, Astrology can be used and abused. So is science, medicine and a host of other things. One hears these days frequently how some scientists (respectable ones at that) faked and forged research data. Then again even in the US, there are well known cases where operations were performed on the wrong patient or the perfectly normally functioning organ was removed by mistake. Would we want to dismiss science or Medicine because of ignorance,willful abuse or just simple carelessness? Yes, there are (many) astrologers who misuse the Divine Science. And again, Astrologers ,being human, are not infallible. I strongly believe, that Vivekananda and many other sages spoke against the abuse of Astrology. After all, Jyotir Vidya is a study (and application) of the Law of Karma manifesting in Time and Space. And who can REALLY understand Karma, but a Sage? Shri Aurobindo was such a Sage! Every 6 month or so, I re-read Shri Aurobindo's slender volume on Karma. ("Problem of Rebirth"). This work worth it's weight-quite literally- in gold. (and much more). I usually study this book side by side with the divine chart of Shri Aurobindo. Incidentally, in his chart the SUN's strenght in Dasa Varga is 10 of out 10 (Shreedhaama). Perhaps the Budha Aditya yoga,Hamsa Yoga,and Saraswati Yoga explains his astonishing ability to explain and "expound" the mysteries of the Eternal Law!His "Savitri" is unparalelled in beauty and spiritual content.There were -of course- many other great Sages and Saints in contemporary India. However Shri Aurobindo was a MASTER of the language and could elucidate the highest concepts with amazing clarity. (All this,using a "mleccha" language.) Shri Aurobindo also had some things to say about Astrology. As usual, his explanations are clear cut,penetrating and full of the deepest insight. It is useless for me to repeat what he said: I strongly recommend everyone (especially astrologers) to read Shri Aurobindo. I read and study it slowly, sentence by sentence, carefully considering and pondering every word! Then I look at his picture,study and contemplate his chart- and my being is flooded with an overwheming sense of gratitude. I am in the presence of a Rishi.... With deep respect A.Jsohamsa , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote:>> Namaste friends,> > I know that this issue of Swami Vivekananda dismissing fate and astrology in a lecture came up earlier also. Let me share my 2 cents on that.> > > let's not be oblivious to some rather famous and great names of the past> > being skeptical of astrology. If we penned a list, Swami Vivekananda would> > be certainly be the top seed.> > Suppose I am watching a movie with my children. Suppose the hero, who my child self-identifies with while watching the movie, is badly hurt by the villain. Suppose my child is very badly upset because of it. If my child is mature enough, I can explain that this movie is not really happening (even though it seems to happen live on the big screen in front of us) and hence one need not worry about a "delusion" that is playing out on the screen. However, if another child of mine is not mature enough to understand and appreciate that, I may not want to confuse. I may just re-assure that the hero is after all going to be fine and recover to hit back at the villain soon. If I have means to guess it, I may even guess that the hero is going to hit back after 5 minutes 20 seconds. That makes the child happy. This is bad in a way because the child will continue to stay in the delusion that what is happening on the screen is real in some way and it is ok to be emotionally affected by it. But, that child is not ready for more.> > If my answer to a child in a simplistic scenario such as the above (if you can, please note that some details in this example are carefully chosen to reflect on the role of astrology/astrologer) can be different based on my perception of the maturity level of the child, why can't the answers of a spiritual master to seekers be different based on the maturity level of the audience?> > Swami Vivekananda was a great teacher of masses and he did not want to confuse his audiences. He would focus on one point, based on his audience, and drive his point passionately. Because of the passion to drive his point home, he would sometimes over-state something, strictly within a particular context. If you take it out of context, it loses its meaning.> > In the context of this world appearance being a delusion and in the context of one having to rise above it and not be bound by the delusion of world appearance, it is completely true that astrology is a useless subject. But, if you take the context away and come to the context of a normal layman's daily life, then astrology is a very useful subject (assuming you have a genuine, learned and honest astrologer helping you).> > Bottomline is that not every statement made by Swami Vivekananda represents his real view. After all, he is a rishi. His understanding is so subtle and supreme that it cannot be completely captured by his audience listening to his lecture (vaikhari). The lecture only captures a small portion of his understanding. The audience of his lecture is akin to my children who listen to me in the example at the beginning of this mail! My answers are fine-tuned for each child and they do not reflect my complete views. Same holds for Swami Vivekananda's lectures.> > People have taken a statement of Swami Vivekananda out of context and jumped to a conclusion that he questioned astrology. It is one thing to question the sincerity of most astrologers, the correctness of astrology as understood today and the validity of overly relying on astrology, but quite another to absolutely dismiss fate and astrology. A reborn rishi like Swami Vivekananda simply could not have dismissed a Vedanga altogether. I am 100% sure that Swami Vivekananda's said quote is a misunderstood one.> > In fact, I understand that Swami Vivekananda had a passing knowledge of astrology and he referred to a printed panchange before withdrawing into his room for his mahasamadhi. Some of his close associates, such as Swami Vijnanananda, were scholars of Jyotisha.> > May the light of Brahman shine within,> Narasimha > -------------------------------> Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> -------------------------------> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Dear Friends, Namaste! Somewhat related to this issue, Sourav, who is abscent from the list now a days, posted an intersting link about Vivekanand's encounter with a soothsayer. You may read those unpublished letters. sohamsa/message/8395 http://vivekananda.org/newSVLetters.asp Regards Sudhir sohamsa , " Arpad Joo " <panchasila wrote: > > > Hare Rama Krishna, > > Dear Narasimha P.V.R. Rao, > > Namaskar, > > > > like with everything, Astrology can be used and abused. > > So is science, medicine and a host of other things. One hears these days > frequently how some scientists (respectable ones at that) faked and > forged research data. Then again even in the US, there are well known > cases where operations were performed on the wrong patient or the > perfectly normally functioning organ was removed by mistake. Would we > want to dismiss science or Medicine because of ignorance,willful abuse > or just simple carelessness? > > Yes, there are (many) astrologers who misuse the Divine Science. And > again, Astrologers ,being human, are not infallible. > > I strongly believe, that Vivekananda and many other sages spoke against > the abuse of Astrology. > > After all, Jyotir Vidya is a study (and application) of the Law of Karma > manifesting in Time and Space. And who can REALLY understand Karma, but > a Sage? Shri Aurobindo was such a Sage! > > Every 6 month or so, I re-read Shri Aurobindo's slender volume on Karma. > ( " Problem of Rebirth " ). This work worth it's weight-quite literally- in > gold. (and much more). I usually study this book side by side with the > divine chart of Shri Aurobindo. Incidentally, in his chart the SUN's > strenght in Dasa Varga is 10 of out 10 (Shreedhaama). Perhaps the Budha > Aditya yoga,Hamsa Yoga,and Saraswati Yoga explains his astonishing > ability to explain and " expound " the mysteries of the Eternal Law! His > " Savitri " is unparalelled in beauty and spiritual content.There were > -of course- many other great Sages and Saints in contemporary India. > However Shri Aurobindo was a MASTER of the language and could elucidate > the highest concepts with amazing clarity. (All this,using a " mleccha " > language.) > > Shri Aurobindo also had some things to say about Astrology. As usual, > his explanations are clear cut,penetrating and full of the deepest > insight. > > It is useless for me to repeat what he said: I strongly recommend > everyone (especially astrologers) to read Shri Aurobindo. I read and > study it slowly, sentence by sentence, carefully considering and > pondering every word! Then I look at his picture,study and contemplate > his chart- and my being is flooded with an overwheming sense of > gratitude. I am in the presence of a Rishi.... > > > > With deep respect > > A.J > sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote: > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > I know that this issue of Swami Vivekananda dismissing fate and > astrology in a lecture came up earlier also. Let me share my 2 cents on > that. > > > > > let's not be oblivious to some rather famous and great names of the > past > > > being skeptical of astrology. If we penned a list, Swami Vivekananda > would > > > be certainly be the top seed. > > > > Suppose I am watching a movie with my children. Suppose the hero, who > my child self-identifies with while watching the movie, is badly hurt by > the villain. Suppose my child is very badly upset because of it. If my > child is mature enough, I can explain that this movie is not really > happening (even though it seems to happen live on the big screen in > front of us) and hence one need not worry about a " delusion " that is > playing out on the screen. However, if another child of mine is not > mature enough to understand and appreciate that, I may not want to > confuse. I may just re-assure that the hero is after all going to be > fine and recover to hit back at the villain soon. If I have means to > guess it, I may even guess that the hero is going to hit back after 5 > minutes 20 seconds. That makes the child happy. This is bad in a way > because the child will continue to stay in the delusion that what is > happening on the screen is real in some way and it is ok to be > emotionally affected by it. But, that child is not ready for more. > > > > If my answer to a child in a simplistic scenario such as the above (if > you can, please note that some details in this example are carefully > chosen to reflect on the role of astrology/astrologer) can be different > based on my perception of the maturity level of the child, why can't the > answers of a spiritual master to seekers be different based on the > maturity level of the audience? > > > > Swami Vivekananda was a great teacher of masses and he did not want to > confuse his audiences. He would focus on one point, based on his > audience, and drive his point passionately. Because of the passion to > drive his point home, he would sometimes over-state something, strictly > within a particular context. If you take it out of context, it loses its > meaning. > > > > In the context of this world appearance being a delusion and in the > context of one having to rise above it and not be bound by the delusion > of world appearance, it is completely true that astrology is a useless > subject. But, if you take the context away and come to the context of a > normal layman's daily life, then astrology is a very useful subject > (assuming you have a genuine, learned and honest astrologer helping > you). > > > > Bottomline is that not every statement made by Swami Vivekananda > represents his real view. After all, he is a rishi. His understanding is > so subtle and supreme that it cannot be completely captured by his > audience listening to his lecture (vaikhari). The lecture only captures > a small portion of his understanding. The audience of his lecture is > akin to my children who listen to me in the example at the beginning of > this mail! My answers are fine-tuned for each child and they do not > reflect my complete views. Same holds for Swami Vivekananda's lectures. > > > > People have taken a statement of Swami Vivekananda out of context and > jumped to a conclusion that he questioned astrology. It is one thing to > question the sincerity of most astrologers, the correctness of astrology > as understood today and the validity of overly relying on astrology, but > quite another to absolutely dismiss fate and astrology. A reborn rishi > like Swami Vivekananda simply could not have dismissed a Vedanga > altogether. I am 100% sure that Swami Vivekananda's said quote is a > misunderstood one. > > > > In fact, I understand that Swami Vivekananda had a passing knowledge > of astrology and he referred to a printed panchange before withdrawing > into his room for his mahasamadhi. Some of his close associates, such as > Swami Vijnanananda, were scholars of Jyotisha. > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------------- > > Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > ------------------------------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Asato maa Sadgamaya Tamaso maa Jyotirgamaya Mrityo maa Amritamgamaya Yes the light continues to shine - from the Vedas - from the ancient texts - from the words of gurus. The viberations of the words ring on and on. OF course, with the layers and layers of our ignorance our antennaes may not be tuned to the vibrations and it may be all overhead transmission. I don't know whether knowing the level of our ignorance or otherwise some gurus have said that it is only NOW or the PRESENT MOMENT that matters. If we can live fully and intensely and with all the attention / awareness / consciousness in the present moment, astrology loses relevance. For what is past but our karma and what is future but our desire? If we totally accept the result of our Karma with full responsibility (response - ability) then do we not in some ways become free of our past? And if we don't dream of our future do we not become free of desire? So should we not just live in the PRESENT? But then in the PRESENT astrology has no meaning. These are words of my guru that i am still mulling over. There is no offence meant to any. BTW, the same guru says that on Maha Shivratri there is a special conjugation of planets that is very conducive for spiritual growth if we keep awake the whole night in celebration and in a meditative mood!!! sohamsa , " Soul Sadhak " <soulsadhak wrote: > > The Light continues to Shine > > what do one say to those > who choose to close their eyes to it > what does one say to those > who r in process of playing hide and seek with it > > our prayer remains... > > Asato maa Sadgamaya > Asato maa Jyotirgamaya > > sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> > wrote: > > Namaste friends, > > I know that this issue of Swami Vivekananda dismissing fate and > astrology in a lecture came up earlier also. Let me share my 2 cents > on that. > > > let's not be oblivious to some rather famous and great names of > the past > > being skeptical of astrology. If we penned a list, Swami > Vivekananda would > > be certainly be the top seed. > > Suppose I am watching a movie with my children. Suppose the hero, > who my child self-identifies with while watching the movie, is badly > hurt by the villain. Suppose my child is very badly upset because of > it. If my child is mature enough, I can explain that this movie is > not really happening (even though it seems to happen live on the big > screen in front of us) and hence one need not worry about > a " delusion " that is playing out on the screen. However, if another > child of mine is not mature enough to understand and appreciate > that, I may not want to confuse. I may just re-assure that the hero > is after all going to be fine and recover to hit back at the villain > soon. If I have means to guess it, I may even guess that the hero is > going to hit back after 5 minutes 20 seconds. That makes the child > happy. This is bad in a way because the child will continue to stay > in the delusion that what is happening on the screen is real in some > way and it is ok to be emotionally affected by it. But, that child > is not ready for more. > > If my answer to a child in a simplistic scenario such as the above > (if you can, please note that some details in this example are > carefully chosen to reflect on the role of astrology/astrologer) can > be different based on my perception of the maturity level of the > child, why can't the answers of a spiritual master to seekers be > different based on the maturity level of the audience? > > Swami Vivekananda was a great teacher of masses and he did not want > to confuse his audiences. He would focus on one point, based on his > audience, and drive his point passionately. Because of the passion > to drive his point home, he would sometimes over-state something, > strictly within a particular context. If you take it out of context, > it loses its meaning. > > In the context of this world appearance being a delusion and in the > context of one having to rise above it and not be bound by the > delusion of world appearance, it is completely true that astrology > is a useless subject. But, if you take the context away and come to > the context of a normal layman's daily life, then astrology is a > very useful subject (assuming you have a genuine, learned and honest > astrologer helping you). > > Bottomline is that not every statement made by Swami Vivekananda > represents his real view. After all, he is a rishi. His > understanding is so subtle and supreme that it cannot be completely > captured by his audience listening to his lecture (vaikhari). The > lecture only captures a small portion of his understanding. The > audience of his lecture is akin to my children who listen to me in > the example at the beginning of this mail! My answers are fine- tuned > for each child and they do not reflect my complete views. Same holds > for Swami Vivekananda's lectures. > > People have taken a statement of Swami Vivekananda out of context > and jumped to a conclusion that he questioned astrology. It is one > thing to question the sincerity of most astrologers, the correctness > of astrology as understood today and the validity of overly relying > on astrology, but quite another to absolutely dismiss fate and > astrology. A reborn rishi like Swami Vivekananda simply could not > have dismissed a Vedanga altogether. I am 100% sure that Swami > Vivekananda's said quote is a misunderstood one. > > In fact, I understand that Swami Vivekananda had a passing knowledge > of astrology and he referred to a printed panchange before > withdrawing into his room for his mahasamadhi. Some of his close > associates, such as Swami Vijnanananda, were scholars of Jyotisha. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > --- End forwarded message --- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Dear Sanjayji, I am happy that u have responded :) Your message is full of ??? and i don't have the answers to be frank. I am just experimenting with life like so many others by trying to act on my guru's words. My guru says that if one is to understand things there is no substitute for direct experience. There are many things which cannot be understood by intellect or even logic. But i still dont have the experience of the real thing because i dont know what is real.I have unfortunately not been able to go beyond the mind and the body for any experience. But there are some experiences that i have had which have made me look at life in a different perspective after meeting my guru. Now this perspectve may not be " right " according to some, or it may may change with time even for me...but that is how it is for me now. What is now? To me it is this very moment of which i am conscious. What happened one moment ago is past. I was concious in that moment one moment ago but now i am in this moment. The next moment i have no idea about. Of course, it will depend on my past karma, but i am not conscious of my past karma, so how do i know what is there for me in the next moment? So i am only conscious of this PRESENT moment. As for this one moment being a lifetime for an insect - that may be so. I am not concerned with the relative aspect of time. 2nd question is about responsibility. This has been the most powerful experience for me, thanks to my guru. This present moment is inevitable, he says. By accepting this i have experienced a great sense of freedom. I accept whatever is to happen to me. But my response to this moment is entirely in my hands and is dictated by my consciousness. So i am conscious that this had to happen to me but how i act in this moment is entirely up to me. My guru says that this moment is full of a million possibilities. So i have to choose depending on my vivek and my conciuosness how i have to act in this moment. the 3rd, 4th, 5th questions are just one. The moment i am fully attentive and aware that this moment is inevitable and i have to act / respond in the best manner possible in this conscious state, i naturally make a choice about what is best. The best may be a " wrong " choice according to another, but it is my conciuos choice in this moment for which i am fully responsible. Conciousness may deepen with time. So initially though i may act for just myself in the present moment without thinking too much about others, with the " desire " to deepen my conciousness, I may start seeing myself in " others " and keep on widening my conciousness so that " i " becomes smaller and smaller and the " other " grows and grows, or to put it differently, the " i " merges with the " other " .The mother/wife who races against time to pack the tiffin for her children, attend to the breakfast of her husband, and juggle so many balls at the same time is just giving her " all " to this moment. The family is all important to her. But then the concept of family too can widen to cover more and more people or even plants and animals. i am concious that this level of conciuosness may take lifetimes. But it is an interesting journey, nevertheless. My experience with taking past as dead (even though it governs some of my present actions thru conditioning, past memories, etc.) and taking future as a hallucination, and jsut livng in the NOW has enriched my life in many ways and given me a new found freedom. OF course this has been supported by committment to sadhana too without which many things would not have happened. Sorry, that this message has become so personal and so long with my ramblings. But i thought i will share this with u since u have cared to respond to something i had written in one of the messages. And also because u are responsible to some extent for my interest in astrology and the ancient scriptures which i am trying to read these days. Best wishes and warm regards, Vinita sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath wrote: > > +om gurave namah+ > Dear Vinita > What is now? Can you define it for me? > Is it this moment we are breathing? Then this would be the lifetime of so > many germs and smaller insects. > Is it the hour, the muhurta, day, week, fornight, month, two- months, 6 > months or year? What is your definition of now? > > Second question: How can we totally accept the full responsibility of > something we know nothing about? Can you tell me what karma you did in > thelast birth that has caused this incarnation as Vinita? Is there any means > of knowing this other than Jyotish which alone is the foundation for this? > Even if by meditation one does get siddhi to see the past, then this siddhi > is called *Jyotish*. > > Third Question: How can we live fully? What is full living?? > > Fourth Question: How can we live intensely? What is intense living? > > Fifth Question: What is attention and attention to what? Take a moment in > ones life - the following things are happening, lets say (1) phone is > ringing (2) child wants to skip school (3) husband wants lunch for office > (4) you have to rush to office, and (5) you have not yet done your prayers > and meditation... can you tell us how to live for this moment? > > All logic and arguments are fine if they can address the real life > situation, else they are but another philosophy. It is the fear of the > future, the life after death that makes men behave normally in society, else > why would anyone be afraid of murder or other evil acts? Fear or insecurity > is the begining of wisdom, but it should not end there. > > ...and my Guru taught me, > > Never to live for Yesterday as that was what had to happen and only fools > cry over spilt milk > Never to live for Today as only the selfish ones think of themseles and fall > into the dungeons of bad karma neglecting the future consequences of their > actions > Never to live for Tomorrow, as tomorrow never comes. > If you have to live, live like an Immortal, else every other way is but a > sure path of return in the hands of Kaala (time). > > om namah shivaaya namah amarnaathaya om-kaaraaya namo namah > > May He grant us that will and courage to outlive time... > > Best wishes and warm regards, > Sanjay Rath > Webpages: http://SRath.com <http://srath.com/> > Founder: http://SriJagannath.org <http://.org/> > Editor: http://TheJyotishDigest.com <http://thejyotishdigest.com/> > > > > _____ > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of > vinita kumar > Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:32 PM > sohamsa > Re: Fwd: Vivekananda and astrology > > > > Asato maa Sadgamaya > Tamaso maa Jyotirgamaya > Mrityo maa Amritamgamaya > > Yes the light continues to shine - from the Vedas - from the ancient > texts - from the words of gurus. The viberations of the words ring > on and on. OF course, with the layers and layers of our ignorance > our antennaes may not be tuned to the vibrations and it may be all > overhead transmission. > > I don't know whether knowing the level of our ignorance or otherwise > some gurus have said that it is only NOW or the PRESENT MOMENT that > matters. If we can live fully and intensely and with all the > attention / awareness / consciousness in the present moment, > astrology loses relevance. > > For what is past but our karma and what is future but our desire? > > If we totally accept the result of our Karma with full > responsibility (response - ability) then do we not in some ways > become free of our past? And if we don't dream of our future do we > not become free of desire? > > So should we not just live in the PRESENT? > > But then in the PRESENT astrology has no meaning. > > These are words of my guru that i am still mulling over. > > There is no offence meant to any. > > BTW, the same guru says that on Maha Shivratri there is a special > conjugation of planets that is very conducive for spiritual growth > if we keep awake the whole night in celebration and in a meditative > mood!!! > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa% 40> .com, " Soul > Sadhak " <soulsadhak@> wrote: > > > > The Light continues to Shine > > > > what do one say to those > > who choose to close their eyes to it > > what does one say to those > > who r in process of playing hide and seek with it > > > > our prayer remains... > > > > Asato maa Sadgamaya > > Asato maa Jyotirgamaya > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa% 40> .com, > " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> > > wrote: > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > I know that this issue of Swami Vivekananda dismissing fate and > > astrology in a lecture came up earlier also. Let me share my 2 > cents > > on that. > > > > > let's not be oblivious to some rather famous and great names of > > the past > > > being skeptical of astrology. If we penned a list, Swami > > Vivekananda would > > > be certainly be the top seed. > > > > Suppose I am watching a movie with my children. Suppose the hero, > > who my child self-identifies with while watching the movie, is > badly > > hurt by the villain. Suppose my child is very badly upset because > of > > it. If my child is mature enough, I can explain that this movie is > > not really happening (even though it seems to happen live on the > big > > screen in front of us) and hence one need not worry about > > a " delusion " that is playing out on the screen. However, if > another > > child of mine is not mature enough to understand and appreciate > > that, I may not want to confuse. I may just re-assure that the > hero > > is after all going to be fine and recover to hit back at the > villain > > soon. If I have means to guess it, I may even guess that the hero > is > > going to hit back after 5 minutes 20 seconds. That makes the child > > happy. This is bad in a way because the child will continue to > stay > > in the delusion that what is happening on the screen is real in > some > > way and it is ok to be emotionally affected by it. But, that child > > is not ready for more. > > > > If my answer to a child in a simplistic scenario such as the above > > (if you can, please note that some details in this example are > > carefully chosen to reflect on the role of astrology/astrologer) > can > > be different based on my perception of the maturity level of the > > child, why can't the answers of a spiritual master to seekers be > > different based on the maturity level of the audience? > > > > Swami Vivekananda was a great teacher of masses and he did not > want > > to confuse his audiences. He would focus on one point, based on > his > > audience, and drive his point passionately. Because of the passion > > to drive his point home, he would sometimes over-state something, > > strictly within a particular context. If you take it out of > context, > > it loses its meaning. > > > > In the context of this world appearance being a delusion and in > the > > context of one having to rise above it and not be bound by the > > delusion of world appearance, it is completely true that astrology > > is a useless subject. But, if you take the context away and come > to > > the context of a normal layman's daily life, then astrology is a > > very useful subject (assuming you have a genuine, learned and > honest > > astrologer helping you). > > > > Bottomline is that not every statement made by Swami Vivekananda > > represents his real view. After all, he is a rishi. His > > understanding is so subtle and supreme that it cannot be > completely > > captured by his audience listening to his lecture (vaikhari). The > > lecture only captures a small portion of his understanding. The > > audience of his lecture is akin to my children who listen to me in > > the example at the beginning of this mail! My answers are fine- > tuned > > for each child and they do not reflect my complete views. Same > holds > > for Swami Vivekananda's lectures. > > > > People have taken a statement of Swami Vivekananda out of context > > and jumped to a conclusion that he questioned astrology. It is one > > thing to question the sincerity of most astrologers, the > correctness > > of astrology as understood today and the validity of overly > relying > > on astrology, but quite another to absolutely dismiss fate and > > astrology. A reborn rishi like Swami Vivekananda simply could not > > have dismissed a Vedanga altogether. I am 100% sure that Swami > > Vivekananda's said quote is a misunderstood one. > > > > In fact, I understand that Swami Vivekananda had a passing > knowledge > > of astrology and he referred to a printed panchange before > > withdrawing into his room for his mahasamadhi. Some of his close > > associates, such as Swami Vijnanananda, were scholars of Jyotisha. > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------- > > Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAst > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> rologer.org/homam > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> rologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> nath.org > > ------------------------- > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Om Gurave Namah But if is wasn`t and isn`t were you can`t be sure...but you might find delight,in philosophy. Are you talking about Kaala or linear concept of time used as mathematical variable? What is your parametre for measuring a moment? Is it a second, an eye wink, the end of some action? As long as something (anything) you`ve chosen as a parametre lasts your moment will last? Is that a division of time or gunas performance? I think we came to a point (or moment) when we should humbly say-Mahamaye namostute. Sincerely, Tijana sohamsa , " Soul Sadhak " <soulsadhak wrote: > > NOW matters so far as it is used mindfully > (mindfully = thought-free awareness - to remove the confusion, lest > we percieve it as thru the clutter of our thoughts adn emotions) > > NOW is the net resultant of what the PAST was > NOW is the moment in which what u do will contribute towards builing > your future. > the Past was Now 'that was Then' > the Future will be 'that which will be Then' > > yes, NOW matters > > the planetary positions of each moment of NOW > are the indicators of the state of Creation > and ur life-co-ordinates in that moment. > > NOW exists in every moment of the continuum called TIME > > are we in tune with each moment > > practice, practice, practice. > > sohamsa , " vinita kumar " <shankar_mamta@> > wrote: > > > > Asato maa Sadgamaya > > Tamaso maa Jyotirgamaya > > Mrityo maa Amritamgamaya > > > > Yes the light continues to shine - from the Vedas - from the > ancient > > texts - from the words of gurus. The viberations of the words ring > > on and on. OF course, with the layers and layers of our ignorance > > our antennaes may not be tuned to the vibrations and it may be all > > overhead transmission. > > > > I don't know whether knowing the level of our ignorance or > otherwise > > some gurus have said that it is only NOW or the PRESENT MOMENT > that > > matters. If we can live fully and intensely and with all the > > attention / awareness / consciousness in the present moment, > > astrology loses relevance. > > > > For what is past but our karma and what is future but our desire? > > > > If we totally accept the result of our Karma with full > > responsibility (response - ability) then do we not in some ways > > become free of our past? And if we don't dream of our future do we > > not become free of desire? > > > > So should we not just live in the PRESENT? > > > > But then in the PRESENT astrology has no meaning. > > > > These are words of my guru that i am still mulling over. > > > > There is no offence meant to any. > > > > BTW, the same guru says that on Maha Shivratri there is a special > > conjugation of planets that is very conducive for spiritual growth > > if we keep awake the whole night in celebration and in a > meditative > > mood!!! > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Soul Sadhak " <soulsadhak@> wrote: > > > > > > The Light continues to Shine > > > > > > what do one say to those > > > who choose to close their eyes to it > > > what does one say to those > > > who r in process of playing hide and seek with it > > > > > > our prayer remains... > > > > > > Asato maa Sadgamaya > > > Asato maa Jyotirgamaya > > > > > > sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > I know that this issue of Swami Vivekananda dismissing fate and > > > astrology in a lecture came up earlier also. Let me share my 2 > > cents > > > on that. > > > > > > > let's not be oblivious to some rather famous and great names > of > > > the past > > > > being skeptical of astrology. If we penned a list, Swami > > > Vivekananda would > > > > be certainly be the top seed. > > > > > > Suppose I am watching a movie with my children. Suppose the > hero, > > > who my child self-identifies with while watching the movie, is > > badly > > > hurt by the villain. Suppose my child is very badly upset > because > > of > > > it. If my child is mature enough, I can explain that this movie > is > > > not really happening (even though it seems to happen live on the > > big > > > screen in front of us) and hence one need not worry about > > > a " delusion " that is playing out on the screen. However, if > > another > > > child of mine is not mature enough to understand and appreciate > > > that, I may not want to confuse. I may just re-assure that the > > hero > > > is after all going to be fine and recover to hit back at the > > villain > > > soon. If I have means to guess it, I may even guess that the > hero > > is > > > going to hit back after 5 minutes 20 seconds. That makes the > child > > > happy. This is bad in a way because the child will continue to > > stay > > > in the delusion that what is happening on the screen is real in > > some > > > way and it is ok to be emotionally affected by it. But, that > child > > > is not ready for more. > > > > > > If my answer to a child in a simplistic scenario such as the > above > > > (if you can, please note that some details in this example are > > > carefully chosen to reflect on the role of astrology/astrologer) > > can > > > be different based on my perception of the maturity level of the > > > child, why can't the answers of a spiritual master to seekers be > > > different based on the maturity level of the audience? > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda was a great teacher of masses and he did not > > want > > > to confuse his audiences. He would focus on one point, based on > > his > > > audience, and drive his point passionately. Because of the > passion > > > to drive his point home, he would sometimes over-state > something, > > > strictly within a particular context. If you take it out of > > context, > > > it loses its meaning. > > > > > > In the context of this world appearance being a delusion and in > > the > > > context of one having to rise above it and not be bound by the > > > delusion of world appearance, it is completely true that > astrology > > > is a useless subject. But, if you take the context away and come > > to > > > the context of a normal layman's daily life, then astrology is a > > > very useful subject (assuming you have a genuine, learned and > > honest > > > astrologer helping you). > > > > > > Bottomline is that not every statement made by Swami Vivekananda > > > represents his real view. After all, he is a rishi. His > > > understanding is so subtle and supreme that it cannot be > > completely > > > captured by his audience listening to his lecture (vaikhari). > The > > > lecture only captures a small portion of his understanding. The > > > audience of his lecture is akin to my children who listen to me > in > > > the example at the beginning of this mail! My answers are fine- > > tuned > > > for each child and they do not reflect my complete views. Same > > holds > > > for Swami Vivekananda's lectures. > > > > > > People have taken a statement of Swami Vivekananda out of > context > > > and jumped to a conclusion that he questioned astrology. It is > one > > > thing to question the sincerity of most astrologers, the > > correctness > > > of astrology as understood today and the validity of overly > > relying > > > on astrology, but quite another to absolutely dismiss fate and > > > astrology. A reborn rishi like Swami Vivekananda simply could > not > > > have dismissed a Vedanga altogether. I am 100% sure that Swami > > > Vivekananda's said quote is a misunderstood one. > > > > > > In fact, I understand that Swami Vivekananda had a passing > > knowledge > > > of astrology and he referred to a printed panchange before > > > withdrawing into his room for his mahasamadhi. Some of his close > > > associates, such as Swami Vijnanananda, were scholars of > Jyotisha. > > > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------------- > > > Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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