RE: [Jaya Jagannath] Key point on 360d vs 365d years

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

this is very interesting.... can the 360 tithi years also account for progression and

as time unfolds , the years get longer? I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

When reading Sri BV Raman's book on Varshaphal he poses a strong argument

on a sideral year being = to 365.256374 vs. the accepted 365.2425.

Now, how does this knowledge differ from 5,000 ( + or -) years ago. Should modern

calculations precede ancient knowledge?

 

 

 

 

Narasimha Rao [pvr] Monday, July 02, 2001 7:57 PMSanjay RathCc: vedic astrology ; varahamihira ; achyuta Subject: [Jaya Jagannath] Key point on 360d vs 365d yearsPranaam Sanjay,During the last few days, I read some parts of Mahabharata forcollecting some data for astrological analysis of Mahabharata events.I had no luck so far. If you tell me Achyuta Dasa's views on when KaliYuga started, it will help my research tremendously.I came across something interesting in Virata Parva of Mahabharata.When Arjuna comes out of his ajnaata vaasa (hiding) to fight Kauravaarmies and save King Virata's cows, Duryodhana rejoices that one yearajnaata vaasa bet is broken and Pandavas have to go back to 12 yearsof vana vaasa (stay in forests) and 1 year of ajnaata vaasa (hiding).Then Bheeshma gives his opinion thus:teshaam kaalaatirekena jyotishaam cha vyatikramaat |panchame panchame varshe dwau maasaavupajaayatah || 47-3teshaambhyadhikaa maasaah pancha dwaadasa cha kshapaah |trayodasaanaam varshaanaamiti me vartate matih || 47-4"It is true that time is formed by degrees & minutes, days,fortnights, months and seasons. However, learned astrologers considerthe excess time that is built into this. Once in every 5 years, thereis an extra month. During the 13 years, there were 5 extra months and12 extra days. Considering them, thirteen years have already passed.Arjuna must've come out of the hiding only after recognizing thisfact. He did not break the bet."Essentially, Duryodhana is insisting on 365.2425 day solar years andarguing that 13 years are not over yet. And, Bheeshma is counsellinghim that 360 tithis (not even 360 days) form one year. Though lunaryears (of tithis) are synchronized with solar years with the help ofadhika maasas (extra months) that come at the rate of 2 months per 5years, Bheeshma is saying that astrologers consider a year to be 360tithis. If a lunar year has 13 months, he is considering it to be 1year PLUS 1 month. He is advising Duryodhana to accept the samedefinition for years in their bet (of 12 years in forests and 1 yearin hiding), instead of insisting that a year means 365.2425 days andso 13 years aren't over yet.The above is a very clear point and a basis for the war. I cannotimagine any corruption in it. Moreover, Bheeshma is a very learnedperson and Vyasa who reported Mahabharata is the son of Pararsara.Both of them knew astrology better than all of us. So this makes avery very strong case for the use of 360-tithi years in astrology.In fact, though I used 360 day years until sometime back, I insistedthat an even more correct way would be to use 360 tithis. Ever since Icoded 360-tithi years in JH, I've been using only that in allnakshatra dasas! I sincerely believe that this is the correctapproach, partly based on experience, partly based on intuition andNOW partly based on Bhishma's teaching.I request you to kindly reconsider your views on this issue andcomment on Bheeshma's statement.Your sishya,NarasimhaPS: I noted this point 3 days back. It was an interesting coincidencethat the next day I received a copy of July 2001 EST, in which therewas an interview with K.K. Pathak. He also uses 360-tithi years andmade the same point that I had noted from Mahabharata!! So this is awell-known point and not my own discovery.---------------------Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Tel: (781) 270-49973 Baron Park Lane #13 email: pvrBurlington, MA 01803 email: pvr108 Homepage: http://www.vedicastrologer.org Home address will change in July/Aug, 2001---------------------OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

[Guest guest]

Dear Narasimha,

There is a lot of difference in studying the Mahabharata and the Ramayana. In the former, we find actual political lives being portrayed. There is the brilliant debate of Saura Varsha vs Tithi-Varsha. In fact when you spoke of 360 days, I had refused to even discuss it as it had no basis what-so-ever, but now you have also, unconsciously, arrived at the vexed question that many others like KK Pathak are debating.

The point is that HORA SHASTRA is based on HORA or AHO-RATRA which means a day and night equalling about 24 hours and that is governed by the naisargika Atmakaraka Sun. The Moon and all other planets follow the Atmakaraka who is the governor or King in the Horoscope. That is the strong basis of the Saura Varsha which has always been the foundation of Jyotish.

Lunar Years have always been a challenge in trying to get at Tithi Pravesh Charts etc, especially in the case of birth in Adhika Maasa. The very foundation shakes and in about every five years we shall lose about one month. You have a good case, but it is not the final answer. I have passed through the phase that you tread today.

Blessings

Sanjay

 

Narasimha Rao [pvr] Monday, July 02, 2001 7:57 PMSanjay RathCc: vedic astrology ; varahamihira ; achyuta Subject: [Jaya Jagannath] Key point on 360d vs 365d years

Pranaam Sanjay,During the last few days, I read some parts of Mahabharata forcollecting some data for astrological analysis of Mahabharata events.I had no luck so far. If you tell me Achyuta Dasa's views on when KaliYuga started, it will help my research tremendously.I came across something interesting in Virata Parva of Mahabharata.When Arjuna comes out of his ajnaata vaasa (hiding) to fight Kauravaarmies and save King Virata's cows, Duryodhana rejoices that one yearajnaata vaasa bet is broken and Pandavas have to go back to 12 yearsof vana vaasa (stay in forests) and 1 year of ajnaata vaasa (hiding).Then Bheeshma gives his opinion thus:teshaam kaalaatirekena jyotishaam cha vyatikramaat |panchame panchame varshe dwau maasaavupajaayatah || 47-3teshaambhyadhikaa maasaah pancha dwaadasa cha kshapaah |trayodasaanaam varshaanaamiti me vartate matih || 47-4"It is true that time is formed by degrees & minutes, days,fortnights, months and seasons. However, learned astrologers considerthe excess time that is built into this. Once in every 5 years, thereis an extra month. During the 13 years, there were 5 extra months and12 extra days. Considering them, thirteen years have already passed.Arjuna must've come out of the hiding only after recognizing thisfact. He did not break the bet."[sanjay Rath] The Mahabharata is a great teaching about the days to come in Kali Yuga. The Ajnaata Vaasa was essentially caused by a cheating/ planned scheme for cheating planned by Sakuni and Duryodhana. The Pandava were cheated and they suffered. their suffering was not because of the cheating, but because of Gambling. Yudhisthira was Dharma-Raja himself and should not have gambled. Hence they suffered. However, since the very cause of the punishment/Ajnaata Vaasa was cheating, the ending would also be a strange way of cheating. Thus, the Pandava had actually not completed the period, but the stand taken by Pitamaha was enough to save them from another 12 years in the jungle. Pitamaha realised that the suffering was unwanted and used his knowledge to twist the truth (or atleast I think he knew the truth and still did this for the sake of the Pandava, especially Arjuna whom he liked so much).

[sanjay Rath] Srila Prabhupada has explained this as the cycle of cheats and cheating in this Kali Yuga. He gives an example of how widows try to lure Sadhu's into having a relationship (in Vrindavan) so that they may have a learned a good child to look after them; simultaneously, there are so many not-so-good young men who wear the garb of a Sadhu to have a relationship with such women!! The cycle is never ending...Essentially, Duryodhana is insisting on 365.2425 day solar years andarguing that 13 years are not over yet. And, Bheeshma is counsellinghim that 360 tithis (not even 360 days) form one year. Though lunaryears (of tithis) are synchronized with solar years with the help ofadhika maasas (extra months) that come at the rate of 2 months per 5years, Bheeshma is saying that astrologers consider a year to be 360tithis. If a lunar year has 13 months, he is considering it to be 1year PLUS 1 month. He is advising Duryodhana to accept the samedefinition for years in their bet (of 12 years in forests and 1 yearin hiding), instead of insisting that a year means 365.2425 days andso 13 years aren't over yet.[sanjay Rath] Have you wondered that if we do away with Adhika Masa, then evey year the Lunar months shall shift back by one month and all our Pooja's atc shall go awry. We could be having Diwali in Summer and Navratri in June!! No, the Sun is the cause and this primary cause is called Savitur..Prasava Karana Devata.

It is possible that there can be another use for the 360 Tithi year that you speak of.."Tanou Tana Danda Hara".. The Yogini's, the Kalachakra and the Astottari dasa.. I leave it all here. You will understand.The above is a very clear point and a basis for the war. I cannotimagine any corruption in it. Moreover, Bheeshma is a very learnedperson and Vyasa who reported Mahabharata is the son of Pararsara.Both of them knew astrology better than all of us. So this makes avery very strong case for the use of 360-tithi years in astrology.In fact, though I used 360 day years until sometime back, I insistedthat an even more correct way would be to use 360 tithis. Ever since Icoded 360-tithi years in JH, I've been using only that in allnakshatra dasas! I sincerely believe that this is the correctapproach, partly based on experience, partly based on intuition andNOW partly based on Bhishma's teaching.I request you to kindly reconsider your views on this issue andcomment on Bheeshma's statement.Your sishya,Narasimha[sanjay Rath] You have made a brilliant finding. Don't stop here on the basis of what I have said. What I have said is the partial truth. It is the truth but not that what you say is wrong.

Blessings

Sanjay Rath PS: I noted this point 3 days back. It was an interesting coincidencethat the next day I received a copy of July 2001 EST, in which therewas an interview with K.K. Pathak. He also uses 360-tithi years andmade the same point that I had noted from Mahabharata!! So this is awell-known point and not my own discovery.---------------------Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Tel: (781) 270-49973 Baron Park Lane #13 email: pvrBurlington, MA 01803 email: pvr108 Homepage: http://www.vedicastrologer.org Home address will change in July/Aug, 2001---------------------OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html