Guest guest Posted August 6, 2001 Report Share Posted August 6, 2001 Om Gurave Namah----Dear Solai, Use the same rationality. The time the Sun enters a sign need not be early in the morning and can be at any time of the day. Then do we use the same day or the next day if this is at night. Maasa or the month has two definitions - one that was used by the Jyotish to calculate the date from Sankranti and the other, the Lunar Month that was the daily calander used for religious purposes etc. Now, before we answer that question, let us have a small exercise of wits for this class.. ------------------Brain Teaser------------------ We know that the days of the week are ruled by SEVEN planets and there are seven STHIRA KARAKA. Now, good vedic astrologers used to time the vimsottari dasa on the basis of the solar motion and specifically on the number of days reckoned from Sankranti. There is a specific order to therulership of these days by planets and THIS IS BASED ON THE NUMBER (OF YEARS) OF THESE PLANETS IN VIMSOTTARI DASA. Thus, once again we are entering into another BIG SECRET of the Vimsottari dasa. For example, the Sun has 6 years, so it is the lord of the sixth day from Sankranti, Moon has 10 years so it lords the 10th day and so on. Now, Ketu and Mars have equal number of 7 years, hence Ketu is excluded from this scheme and only the EIGHT PLANETS from Sun to Rahu which is also the planets in the CHARA KARAKA SCHEME lord over the days reckoned from Sankranti. Question: Can anyone give the entire list of lordship of these eight planets over the 30 days from Sankranti? Hint: Sun-6, Moon-10, Mars -7, Rahu-18, Jup-16, Sat-19, Merc-17, Ven-20. With Best Wishes,Sanjay Rath - Solai Kannan varahamihira Saturday, August 04, 2001 6:55 PM [Hare Rama Krishna] Hora OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH JAYA JAGANNATHA Pranam Gurudeva, In the Hora lesson you have mentioned ".....Thus, the order of the days in the week is obtained based on the lordship of the first hour of the day. This is an important concept in Jyotish. In a similar vein, the lord of the first day (or first Hora) of a month becomes the Lord of the Month and the Lord of the first day (or first Hora) in a Year becomes the lord of the year. These Lords are called Masadhipati (Lord of Month) and Varsheshwara (Lord of the Year)......" How to calculate this Masadhipati and Varsheshwara? If we calculate the Month starting and Varsha starting from the Sunrise then the Vara of the first day of the month or year will be the respective lord. If we calculate based on the Sun's longitude, by considering the time it enters into each sign for the month and the time it enters into Aries for the Varsha, then the respective hora lord will be the lords of month and year. Which method is correct or is there any other method to calculate this. (There are other method which I have seen in other basic books which calculates based on some arbitrary number which represents the beginning of the yuga or world. But, I am not convinced about its usage. Your hora method is more convincing). Thanks Your sisya Solai Kannan OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraFiles: varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2001 Report Share Posted August 10, 2001 Om Gurave Namah----Dear Solai, Seems OKWith Best Wishes,Sanjay Rath - Solai Kannan varahamihira Tuesday, August 07, 2001 6:54 PM [Hare Rama Krishna] Hora OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH JAYA JAGANNATHA Pranam Gurudeva, Thank you very much for your reply. I am unable to list the lords of the 30 days in a month. Can you please give some more clues, so that I can think further. Meanwhile, based on your reply, I calculated the Varsheswara and Madhathipathi for New Delhi and Bahrain (my place) for this year and Meshashankaranthi. New Delhi: The IST Longitude is 82E30 and Delhi's longitude is 77E12. {82.5-77.2 = 5.3} x 4 = 21.2 = 21' 12" So, adding this to 6.AM we will get 6:21':12" IST, which is the HORA starting time for New Delhi. Mesha Shankarnati was at 11:30':05" PM on 13th April 2001 (Friday). This falls during 17th Hora. 17th Hora on Friday is ruled by MOON. So, Moon is the Varsheswara for this year and Moon was the Madhathiipathi for the Meshashankarati for New Delhi. For Bahrain: The IST Longitude is 45E0 and Bahrain's longitude is 50E35. {45.0 - 50.58333 = (-) 5.58333} x 4 = 22.3333 = 22' 20" So, subtracting this from 6 AM we will get 5:37':40" (+3 east TZ), which is the HORA starting time for Bahrain. Mesha Shankarnati was at 9:0':05" PM on 13th April 2001 (Friday). This falls during 15th Hora. 15th Hora on Friday is ruled by Venus. So, Venus is the Varsheswara for this year and Moon was the Madhathipathi for the Meshashankarati for Bahrain. Kindly, check whether these calculations and lords are correct. Thanks Your sisya Solai Kannan Sanjay Rath [srath]Monday, August 06, 2001 1:19 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [Hare Rama Krishna] Hora Om Gurave Namah----Dear Solai, Use the same rationality. The time the Sun enters a sign need not be early in the morning and can be at any time of the day. Then do we use the same day or the next day if this is at night. Maasa or the month has two definitions - one that was used by the Jyotish to calculate the date from Sankranti and the other, the Lunar Month that was the daily calander used for religious purposes etc. Now, before we answer that question, let us have a small exercise of wits for this class.. ------------------Brain Teaser------------------ We know that the days of the week are ruled by SEVEN planets and there are seven STHIRA KARAKA. Now, good vedic astrologers used to time the vimsottari dasa on the basis of the solar motion and specifically on the number of days reckoned from Sankranti. There is a specific order to therulership of these days by planets and THIS IS BASED ON THE NUMBER (OF YEARS) OF THESE PLANETS IN VIMSOTTARI DASA. Thus, once again we are entering into another BIG SECRET of the Vimsottari dasa. For example, the Sun has 6 years, so it is the lord of the sixth day from Sankranti, Moon has 10 years so it lords the 10th day and so on. Now, Ketu and Mars have equal number of 7 years, hence Ketu is excluded from this scheme and only the EIGHT PLANETS from Sun to Rahu which is also the planets in the CHARA KARAKA SCHEME lord over the days reckoned from Sankranti. Question: Can anyone give the entire list of lordship of these eight planets over the 30 days from Sankranti? Hint: Sun-6, Moon-10, Mars -7, Rahu-18, Jup-16, Sat-19, Merc-17, Ven-20. With Best Wishes,Sanjay Rath - Solai Kannan varahamihira Saturday, August 04, 2001 6:55 PM [Hare Rama Krishna] Hora OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH JAYA JAGANNATHA Pranam Gurudeva, In the Hora lesson you have mentioned ".....Thus, the order of the days in the week is obtained based on the lordship of the first hour of the day. This is an important concept in Jyotish. In a similar vein, the lord of the first day (or first Hora) of a month becomes the Lord of the Month and the Lord of the first day (or first Hora) in a Year becomes the lord of the year. These Lords are called Masadhipati (Lord of Month) and Varsheshwara (Lord of the Year)......" How to calculate this Masadhipati and Varsheshwara? If we calculate the Month starting and Varsha starting from the Sunrise then the Vara of the first day of the month or year will be the respective lord. If we calculate based on the Sun's longitude, by considering the time it enters into each sign for the month and the time it enters into Aries for the Varsha, then the respective hora lord will be the lords of month and year. Which method is correct or is there any other method to calculate this. (There are other method which I have seen in other basic books which calculates based on some arbitrary number which represents the beginning of the yuga or world. But, I am not convinced about its usage. Your hora method is more convincing). Thanks Your sisya Solai Kannan OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraFiles: varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2001 Report Share Posted September 23, 2001 Dear Frank, I was wondering when someone would put this reference up. You would like more insight, but i feel this is very clear.. did you have anything specific in mind? Best wishes, Visti. - Frank in Austin varahamihira Sunday, September 23, 2001 11:55 PM [Hare Rama Krishna] Hora Namaste. I am in hopes we can spend more time on Hora it's use and better understanding for Favorable hour selections:USE OF HORA – CHOGAYADIA THE DESIRABLE EFFECTS WILL BE 25 PER CENT BY YEAR LORD, 50 PER CENT BY MONTH LORD, 75 PER CENT BY THE LORD OF THE WEEKDAY AND 100 PER CENT BY THE LORD OF THE HOUR (SARAVALI 7:5- 7) How the Graha's influence the hour by their Quality: SATTVA----SUN, MOON, JUPITER RAJAS-----MERCURY, VENUS TAMAS-----MARS, SATURN (also RAHU, KETU) Can the Guru's share some additional insight , on top of the lessons we have reviewed on Hora? ! Shanti, Shanti Shanti Frank in Austin , Fschmidt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2001 Report Share Posted September 24, 2001 Namaste Visti and thx for responding. I have 3 questions, 2 from the SJVC eGroup list of emails: 1. Message 6417 - Some months back there was a lively conversation on Hora, it's timing methods, and comparing and contrasting when a day starts for Hora calculations ( 6 AM vs.. actual sun rise) This conversation was captured here : varahamihiraHora.pdf for thosethat did not follow this chain of thought. At that time Sanjay suggested that the next correct step to understand the concept on Hora was the discussion (or perhaps a new lesson) on Kala, Yama and Yamardha. Are we ready for this??? I hope we can pursue. Please advise. 2. Message 6597 - I have been pondering the calculation of Diva-Hora and Rati Hora. I have reviewed Sanjay's instructions found in Lesson 6 and re-reading Jyotish news( July 2001) for the instructions. Calculating Hora's from the Local mean time per Sanjay's instructions seems the best approach. I want to to insure I got this right. Can one of the Guru's please check my logic here: ApproachI am using 87.62 degrees west Longitude ( time zone -6) for the specific location ( Chicago) If I assume Standard time zone for this area ( CST) is based upon being 90 degrees west: a. 90 degrees - 87.62 degrees = 2.38 degrees difference b. 2.38 degrees X 4 min per degree = 9.52 mins. c. 6 AM - 9.52 minutes = 5:51:29 AM for the start of the Hora for the day.Questions Does this mean that each day for this region the hora starts at this time? No matter what time the sun rises? The approch then is to add one hour for each hora , starting with 5:51:29. Example:5:51:29 Monday Ruled by Chandra6:51:29 Monday Ruled by Shai7:51:29 Monday Ruled by Guruetc. Is this the correct application of this rule (Using Method C, page 4 of the Jyotish news, July 2001 and page 2 of Lesson #6, Hora) 3. (SARAVALI 7:5- 7) instructions are of most interest.... a. how does one weigh the subha graha and papa graha's for the Hora? and for Hora , we only use Sthira Graha's. b. Do Naisargika Karaka's for various houses then come into play? - choosing the lord of the house for a specfic event, yet if that house is ruled by a papa , why then would you pick that time? e.g. Wealth creation - 2nd house, yet of the second house is ruled by Sani ( for Sg Lagna) , is this the best Muhurta for this action... c. And what of the Lagna as a starting Hora?e.g. Does the HL play a role in the the selection of the best time Is it best to choose the Karaka for Weath Creation, as an example? d. Are there new rules we need to be aware of to make sense of Saravali's instructions? Pranams, Visti Larsen [vlarsen] Sunday, September 23, 2001 1:26 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [Hare Rama Krishna] Hora Dear Frank, I was wondering when someone would put this reference up. You would like more insight, but i feel this is very clear.. did you have anything specific in mind? Best wishes, Visti. - Frank in Austin varahamihira Sunday, September 23, 2001 11:55 PM [Hare Rama Krishna] Hora Namaste. I am in hopes we can spend more time on Hora it's use and better understanding for Favorable hour selections:USE OF HORA – CHOGAYADIA THE DESIRABLE EFFECTS WILL BE 25 PER CENT BY YEAR LORD, 50 PER CENT BY MONTH LORD, 75 PER CENT BY THE LORD OF THE WEEKDAY AND 100 PER CENT BY THE LORD OF THE HOUR (SARAVALI 7:5- 7) How the Graha's influence the hour by their Quality: SATTVA----SUN, MOON, JUPITER RAJAS-----MERCURY, VENUS TAMAS-----MARS, SATURN (also RAHU, KETU) Can the Guru's share some additional insight , on top of the lessons we have reviewed on Hora? ! Shanti, Shanti Shanti Frank in Austin , Fschmidt OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraFiles: varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2001 Report Share Posted September 24, 2001 Vyam Vysadevaya Namah! --- Dear Frank, At that time Sanjay suggested that the next correct step to understand the concept on Hora was the discussion (or perhaps a new lesson) on Kala, Yama and Yamardha. Are we ready for this??? I hope we can pursue. Please advise. The Hora calculations represent a linear & equal motion of time, which is how we count our years of progress. The grahas that surround the earth, do not follow such a linear motion, keep that in mind. So why Sthira Karakas? 2. Message 6597 - I have been pondering the calculation of Diva-Hora and Rati Hora. I have reviewed Sanjay's instructions found in Lesson 6 and re-reading Jyotish news( July 2001) for the instructions. Calculating Hora's from the Local mean time per Sanjay's instructions seems the best approach. I want to to insure I got this right. Can one of the Guru's please check my logic here: ApproachI am using 87.62 degrees west Longitude ( time zone -6) for the specific location ( Chicago) If I assume Standard time zone for this area ( CST) is based upon being 90 degrees west: a. 90 degrees - 87.62 degrees = 2.38 degrees difference b. 2.38 degrees X 4 min per degree = 9.52 mins. c. 6 AM - 9.52 minutes = 5:51:29 AM for the start of the Hora for the day. Yes this is how i calculate them. Questions Does this mean that each day for this region the hora starts at this time? No matter what time the sun rises? The approch then is to add one hour for each hora , starting with 5:51:29. Example:5:51:29 Monday Ruled by Chandra6:51:29 Monday Ruled by Shai7:51:29 Monday Ruled by Guruetc. Is this the correct application of this rule (Using Method C, page 4 of the Jyotish news, July 2001 and page 2 of Lesson #6, Hora) Yup. 3. (SARAVALI 7:5- 7) instructions are of most interest.... a. how does one weigh the subha graha and papa graha's for the Hora? How do you normally do that in prediction? and for Hora , we only use Sthira Graha's. And for Astottari we only use Chara Karakas! This explains why Sanjay has used the Horas so well in timing death. But surely there are other uses. b. Do Naisargika Karaka's for various houses then come into play? - choosing the lord of the house for a specfic event, yet if that house is ruled by a papa , why then would you pick that time? e.g. Wealth creation - 2nd house, yet of the second house is ruled by Sani ( for Sg Lagna) , is this the best Muhurta for this action... Nono.. don't do it in the Hora of your 2nd lord.. Do it in the hora of your 10th lord to gain succes.. Without succes you won't get any food to eat. Creation is seen from Lagna. You can pay bills on your 2nd lord, and get advice on your lagna lord. If the Lord of a house is a malefic, what does it mean? Why is Scorpio lagna strongly represented amongs Astrologers? Because their 2nd and 5th lords are ruled by Jupiter.. Why are Taurians often quite crafty and sometimes obeise? Because Mercury lords their 2nd house, and the mere affliction of that, can give overweight. Similarly Jupiter associated with the 2nd and 5th houses is essential for astrologers, as is afflicted-mercury associated with the 2nd house to give obeisity. c. And what of the Lagna as a starting Hora?e.g. Does the HL play a role in the the selection of the best time Is it best to choose the Karaka for Weath Creation, as an example? As allready stated above.. if you want succes from your efforts, do them in the Hora of the 10th lord. The nature of the 10th lord will show how you usually gain this succes. Mars; fights-competition, strife. Saturn; dethrowning others, scandal(if rahu is associated), etc.. Benefics offcourse show good ways of gaining this succes. Our Narasimha has Mercury lording the 10th and Lagna, hence he will get succes through intellectually applying himself, however due to Mercuries association with Mars(fights/agressive-debates) and Saturn(dethrowning/disproving), he tends to get into such malefic activities easily. Venus with Mercury shows the blessing of artistic ability. This way you can easily see how you usually gain succes in life. Offcourse this should be applied in gross and subtle understanding.. A saint won' use his hands to slap a persons face, but may yet be agressive in speech. d. Are there new rules we need to be aware of to make sense of Saravali's instructions. You tell me. Best wishes, Visti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2001 Report Share Posted September 25, 2001 Namaste, Visti, thank you for your insight... appreciated. Visti Larsen [vlarsen] Monday, September 24, 2001 3:11 AMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [Hare Rama Krishna] Hora Vyam Vysadevaya Namah! --- Dear Frank, At that time Sanjay suggested that the next correct step to understand the concept on Hora was the discussion (or perhaps a new lesson) on Kala, Yama and Yamardha. Are we ready for this??? I hope we can pursue. Please advise. The Hora calculations represent a linear & equal motion of time, which is how we count our years of progress. The grahas that surround the earth, do not follow such a linear motion, keep that in mind. So why Sthira Karakas? 2. Message 6597 - I have been pondering the calculation of Diva-Hora and Rati Hora. I have reviewed Sanjay's instructions found in Lesson 6 and re-reading Jyotish news( July 2001) for the instructions. Calculating Hora's from the Local mean time per Sanjay's instructions seems the best approach. I want to to insure I got this right. Can one of the Guru's please check my logic here: ApproachI am using 87.62 degrees west Longitude ( time zone -6) for the specific location ( Chicago) If I assume Standard time zone for this area ( CST) is based upon being 90 degrees west: a. 90 degrees - 87.62 degrees = 2.38 degrees difference b. 2.38 degrees X 4 min per degree = 9.52 mins. c. 6 AM - 9.52 minutes = 5:51:29 AM for the start of the Hora for the day. Yes this is how i calculate them. Questions Does this mean that each day for this region the hora starts at this time? No matter what time the sun rises? The approch then is to add one hour for each hora , starting with 5:51:29. Example:5:51:29 Monday Ruled by Chandra6:51:29 Monday Ruled by Shai7:51:29 Monday Ruled by Guruetc. Is this the correct application of this rule (Using Method C, page 4 of the Jyotish news, July 2001 and page 2 of Lesson #6, Hora) Yup. 3. (SARAVALI 7:5- 7) instructions are of most interest.... a. how does one weigh the subha graha and papa graha's for the Hora? How do you normally do that in prediction? and for Hora , we only use Sthira Graha's. And for Astottari we only use Chara Karakas! This explains why Sanjay has used the Horas so well in timing death. But surely there are other uses. b. Do Naisargika Karaka's for various houses then come into play? - choosing the lord of the house for a specfic event, yet if that house is ruled by a papa , why then would you pick that time? e.g. Wealth creation - 2nd house, yet of the second house is ruled by Sani ( for Sg Lagna) , is this the best Muhurta for this action... Nono.. don't do it in the Hora of your 2nd lord.. Do it in the hora of your 10th lord to gain succes.. Without succes you won't get any food to eat. Creation is seen from Lagna. You can pay bills on your 2nd lord, and get advice on your lagna lord. If the Lord of a house is a malefic, what does it mean? Why is Scorpio lagna strongly represented amongs Astrologers? Because their 2nd and 5th lords are ruled by Jupiter.. Why are Taurians often quite crafty and sometimes obeise? Because Mercury lords their 2nd house, and the mere affliction of that, can give overweight. Similarly Jupiter associated with the 2nd and 5th houses is essential for astrologers, as is afflicted-mercury associated with the 2nd house to give obeisity. c. And what of the Lagna as a starting Hora?e.g. Does the HL play a role in the the selection of the best time Is it best to choose the Karaka for Weath Creation, as an example? As allready stated above.. if you want succes from your efforts, do them in the Hora of the 10th lord. The nature of the 10th lord will show how you usually gain this succes. Mars; fights-competition, strife. Saturn; dethrowning others, scandal(if rahu is associated), etc.. Benefics offcourse show good ways of gaining this succes. Our Narasimha has Mercury lording the 10th and Lagna, hence he will get succes through intellectually applying himself, however due to Mercuries association with Mars(fights/agressive-debates) and Saturn(dethrowning/disproving), he tends to get into such malefic activities easily. Venus with Mercury shows the blessing of artistic ability. This way you can easily see how you usually gain succes in life. Offcourse this should be applied in gross and subtle understanding.. A saint won' use his hands to slap a persons face, but may yet be agressive in speech. d. Are there new rules we need to be aware of to make sense of Saravali's instructions. You tell me. Best wishes, Visti.OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraFiles: varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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