Guest guest Posted September 4, 2001 Report Share Posted September 4, 2001 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Nair, Namaste. I think this is because the Lagna in any nativity is casted with reference to the Sunás motion, and all the planets' positions also, Therefore The Ayanamsha correction should be used. Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer <gauranga Phone: +36-309-140-839 Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET - Superdeep Varahamihira Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:20 AM [Hare Rama Krishna] Ayanamasa Pranams to Guru Sanjay Rath & Namaskar to all ! Although I am new to the Varahamihira Class, I have been into Astrology for quite a few years. All these years I have been vexed by the "Ayanamasa Syndrome", but now I am sure some kearned soul will help me out of my predicament. As I understand, the Tables of Ascendants by N.C.Lahiri are based on the "Nirayana" system, i.e. these tables accept the Sidereal or Fixed Zodiac as the TRUE Zodiac. Why Then, after having determined the Ascendant, do we have to apply the Ayanamasa Correction ? This may sound like a stupid question to most members, but it has given me many sleepless nights. Could someone please throw some light on this ? With deep respects and warm regards ! Deepak Nair E-mail: superdeep OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraFiles: varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 Om Gurave Namah -------------------------- Dear Deepak, NOTES ON AYANAMSA The term " TRUE " has to be looked into very carefully in this Kali Yuga. Look at TRUE and MEAN Nodes. The principle there is based on the " basic LIFE rule that The luminaries shall always be direct in motion as they give life (HORA) and the nodes shall always be retrograde as they are like Rudra having the responsibility to take the life " . In a similar vein, we all know that the planets revolve around the Sun and from the standpoint of this earth, the planetary positions are based on the placement of the planets in the constellations as viewed from this solar syatem. The question is " Is the solar system the centre of the world? And the answer is 'NO'. There is another center around which the entire solar system revolves. Thus, if SURYA is the Lord of all planets and they revolve around it and owe their existence to Him (Surya-the spiritual Sun God), then this entire creation/universe that revolves arond another center which we call Narayana owes its existence to Him i.e. Narayana. In a way, if Surya is the Naisargika Atmakaraka, then Narayana is the Atmakaraka for all such so many Surya's i.e. like the Supreme President (Narayana) Who has so many Governors (Surya). Having this higher knowledge, we need to have a zodiac which incorporates this concept. What is Ayanamsa in the physical sense? The zero degree of the zodiac i.e. zero-Aries is taken as a point of reckoning where the Visible zodiac (Western system) coincides with the sidereal zodiac. Now, we know that the Solar system (consider this whole system as one big family or a single whole planet that is revolving around Narayana) takes about 25200 years (check this figure from my web). Thus the Ayanamsa (Average-considering a linear circular motion) is 360 Deg / 25200 years i.e. 51.42 seconds per year. Others take this revolution at 24000 years and arrive at 54 seconds per year. This is the debate although it has now been quite conclusively proved that (a) the motion is not linear and (b) that the average is around 50.25 seconds per year. This non-linear movement of ayanamsa is the ayanamsa correction, but few people really get into this. Date of Reckoning: It is necessary to align all charts around Narayana Who is the TRUE center and not Surya. Thus in a sense, the western zodiac is Surya focused while the sidereal one is Narayana focused. We cal;culate the planetary positions and then reduce or add the Ayanamsa based on its position around Narayana. I hope I have clarified your question. If there are more doubts, do write and secondly, that is a good question and there is nothing to fele sorry about. there are so many in these lists who do not know all this, yet never bother to ask. Best Wishes Sanjay Rath - Superdeep <superdeep Varahamihira <varahamihira > Tuesday, September 04, 2001 11:50 AM [Hare Rama Krishna] Ayanamasa Pranams to Guru Sanjay Rath & Namaskar to all ! Although I am new to the Varahamihira Class, I have been into Astrology for quite a few years. All these years I have been vexed by the " Ayanamasa Syndrome " , but now I am sure some kearned soul will help me out of my predicament. As I understand, the Tables of Ascendants by N.C.Lahiri are based on the " Nirayana " system, i.e. these tables accept the Sidereal or Fixed Zodiac as the TRUE Zodiac. Why Then, after having determined the Ascendant, do we have to apply the Ayanamasa Correction ? This may sound like a stupid question to most members, but it has given me many sleepless nights. Could someone please throw some light on this ? With deep respects and warm regards ! Deepak Nair E-mail: superdeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 Om Gurave Namah -------------------------- Dear Deepak, Please read the preface and explanatory notes at the begining of the book. This gives the hypothesis and means of approximation and calculation. I don't have a copy as ready reference, else I could have guided you. Use Raphael's table of houses for more accuracy. I used this for many years till the computer came into my life. Best Wishes Sanjay Rath - Superdeep <superdeep Varahamihira <varahamihira > Wednesday, September 05, 2001 2:56 PM [Hare Rama Krishna] Ayanamasa My deepest respects and gratitude to Sanjayji, Gaurangji and Sarajitji, for responding to my cry of help. I feel that I have not been able to put across my question properly. Let me re-phrase my earlier question thus: Are the Ascendant values given in Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants " Nirayan " or " Sayan " ? I have reason to believe that these are Nirayan Values - in which case, why do we apply the " Ayanamasa Correction " to them ? For example, if the Sidereal Time of Epoch works out to be: 10 hrs 20min 00secs, then the Ascendant for Calcutta (Long: 22% 35'N SHOULD be 7s 05% 36' ! This SHOULD be the final figure - but - we are told to apply Ayanamasa Correction to this ! My question is - WHY ? If the figures are Nirayan, and Nirayan is what we require, then why this correction ? ( I am not, at this stage, at least, bothered about the value of Ayanamasa used, be it Lahiri's, K.P.'s or Raman's). Ayanamasa, as I understand, is the difference between the Vernal Equinox (i.e. the first point of Aries in the Tropical Zodiac), and the First point of Aries in the Sidereal Zodiac. So this correction should be applicable ONLY IF the longitudes given were Sayan longitudes - are they ? I hope I have been successful in putting across my point of view. Deepak Nair superdeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2001 Report Share Posted September 6, 2001 Om Gurave Namah, Dear Sanjay, I was told by a Western astrologer that there is no reference to ayanamsa in any of the Jyotish texts, or holy books of India, and that it is a recent discovery. I find this very hard to believe. Is there any scriptural references to the ayanamsa? My understanding is that the nakshatras are taken as referring to the unchanging star constellation positions. Is there any reference in the scriptures to the permanent alignment of the Zodiac against these unmoving nakshatras? best of luck, Alex J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2001 Report Share Posted September 7, 2001 Dear Alex, I am afraid that I do not have enough knowledge on the subject to be able to answer. Regards Sanjay - " Alex J " <lostinmotion <varahamihira > Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:17 PM Re: [Hare Rama Krishna] Ayanamasa Om Gurave Namah, Dear Sanjay, I was told by a Western astrologer that there is no reference to ayanamsa in any of the Jyotish texts, or holy books of India, and that it is a recent discovery. I find this very hard to believe. Is there any scriptural references to the ayanamsa? My understanding is that the nakshatras are taken as referring to the unchanging star constellation positions. Is there any reference in the scriptures to the permanent alignment of the Zodiac against these unmoving nakshatras? best of luck, Alex J _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2001 Report Share Posted September 7, 2001 Om Gurave Namah -------------------------- Dear Deepak, And what did you find? Have you compared the longitudes of Lahiri with Raphael? It is wrong to draw such assumptions about others just because they have not commented. Best Wishes Sanjay Rath - Superdeep <superdeep Varahamihira <varahamihira > Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:50 PM [Hare Rama Krishna] Ayanamasa Respected Sanjayji, and others, I remember my father telling me: " If ever you have a problem to which there is no apparent solution, express it in detail to someone else - even someone who doesn't know a thing about the topic, and chances are you'll find the solution yourself ! " Well, it has worked for me ! I have found the answer to the Ayanamasa puzzle which had been vexing me for so long. The solution is perfectly logical and convincing - Although somewhat DISTURBING. However, I am not giving the details on this forum as it seems very few list members are interested in this topic, so I would not like to bore them with technicalities. Nevertheless, anyone genuinely interested can contact me directly at superdeep My heartfelt gratitude to respected Sanjayji, Gaurangji and Shirajitji for their help and support. OM GURUVE NAMAH ! Deepak Nair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2001 Report Share Posted September 7, 2001 Om Gurave Namah -------------------------- Dear Alex, Ask your friend to read the Vishnu Purana and Bhagavatam very carefully to understand the difference between Narayana & Surya. Best Wishes Sanjay Rath - Alex J <lostinmotion <varahamihira > Thursday, September 06, 2001 7:47 PM Re: [Hare Rama Krishna] Ayanamasa > Om Gurave Namah, > > Dear Sanjay, > > I was told by a Western astrologer that there is no reference to > ayanamsa in any of the Jyotish texts, or holy books of India, and > that it is a recent discovery. I find this very hard to believe. > > Is there any scriptural references to the ayanamsa? My understanding > is that the nakshatras are taken as referring to the unchanging star > constellation positions. > > Is there any reference in the scriptures to the permanent alignment > of the Zodiac against these unmoving nakshatras? > > best of luck, > > Alex J > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2001 Report Share Posted September 9, 2001 Namaste to all Gurus, I was recently reading ELEMENTS OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY-DR K S CHARAK. In the Ch IV of Vol. 1, he has reproduced some shlokas from VISHNU PURANA - CH. 8 - CANTO 2 - along with his comments, of course. This may be of interest to the members and relevant to the subject. I hope Sanjay ji and other learned gurus can throw some light on it. Shailesh Chandra Chadhascchadha - Alex J varahamihira Thursday, September 06, 2001 7:47 PM Re: [Hare Rama Krishna] Ayanamasa Om Gurave Namah,Dear Sanjay,I was told by a Western astrologer that there is no reference toayanamsa in any of the Jyotish texts, or holy books of India, andthat it is a recent discovery. I find this very hard to believe.Is there any scriptural references to the ayanamsa? My understandingis that the nakshatras are taken as referring to the unchanging starconstellation positions.Is there any reference in the scriptures to the permanent alignmentof the Zodiac against these unmoving nakshatras?best of luck,Alex J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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