Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 om jaya jagannatha ------------------ Namaste Friends, This is a consolidation of online discussion on the topic of ARGALA. Have fun reading. Regards Skanda ******************** START *************************************** pvr108 (12:14:30 PM): i was talking abt argalas. (1) Argala literally means a " bolt " . It's a decisice influence that intervenes in the affairs of a house shris1 (12:14:30 PM): There is full argala on the house/planet from planets/houses in the 2,4,11 from it skanda_kumara (12:14:48 PM): ok dnd108 (12:14:50 PM): and malefics in 3rd can also cause argala pvr108 (12:14:55 PM): (2) Each house experiences argala from the planets in the 2nd, 4th and 11th from it pvr108 (12:15:15 PM): (3) Malefics in the 3rd from a house also cause argala on it pvr108 (12:15:41 PM): (4) This argala is negated by planets in the same distance in the opposite direction pvr108 (12:16:05 PM): i.e. planets in 12th (which is 2nd counted in reverse direction) negate the argala of planets in 2nd. dnd108 (12:16:11 PM): which is 3rd, 10th and 12th sarbani3062002 (12:16:19 PM): can you please clarify point (4) newtoindia2000 (12:17:01 PM): so a malefic in the 3rd has 2 functions... 1. causes argala 2. obstructs argala also at the same time? sanjayrath (12:17:07 PM): Thanks, but no thanks. skanda_kumara (12:17:36 PM): no malefics in 3H obstructs argala only if there are planets in 3H pvr108 (12:17:57 PM): Let us take the 9th house. It shows dharma. The planet is 10th house shows the karma one indulges in and that karma has a sustaining argala on 9th. sanjayrath (12:18:07 PM): Of course Katti..the 3rd house is Parakrama, and one uses parakrama when the object is not easily obtained skanda_kumara (12:18:28 PM): ok pvr108 (12:18:54 PM): But Sanjay, what is the meaning of a malefic planet in 3rd negating the argala of a planet in 11th? dilipastro (12:19:15 PM): Namaste pvr108 (12:19:59 PM): If, for example, Jupiter is in the 11th house, what is the meaning of his argala on lagna? If Mars and Saturn are in 3rd in that example, what is the meaning of their begation of Jupiter's argala on lagna? b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:20:00 PM): even if the planets in 9H & 10H are basically inimical to each other..will the sustaining continue? pvr108 (12:20:24 PM): Yes (to Lakshmi) sanjayrath (12:20:44 PM): Narasimha, it need not be a malefic alone. Even benefics negate it. The third is the house of desire and planets therein show desire and always cause desire. All desires cannot be fulfilled by the 11th and hence the 3rd is actually negating the argala of the 11th. Its like saying no matter how much water I throw into the ocean, it never overflows! skanda_kumara (12:22:08 PM): hmmm sanjayrath (12:22:20 PM): Is this confusing? pvr108 (12:22:22 PM): Qn to Sanjay: Let's say the 9th house is Taurus. Let's say Jup is in Gemini. Jupiter is a malefic for Libra. What does his argala on Taurus mean? pvr108 (12:22:27 PM): yes pvr108 (12:23:00 PM): i can understand that planets in 3rd cause desires. tell me one thing: what do planets in 11th cause??? b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:23:07 PM): i can understand 2 & 12 negating...but 3rd & 11th? aren't these houses part of kaama trikona..then how come? sanjayrath (12:23:19 PM): Jupiter is a malefic by lordship only and in Argala, the lordship is not considered as much as the nature of the planet skanda_kumara (12:23:29 PM): ok pvr108 (12:24:06 PM): So, does Jup's Subha Argala on 9th from 10th show following dharma with good deeds in society? sanjayrath (12:24:34 PM): 11th causes the fulfillment of desires and hence the END OF THE DESIRE. That is why the 11th is the HARA sthana. I want a car, and after I get the car, the desire ends. Thus the 11th house fulfills desires generated by the 3rd house and thus, ends them b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:24:58 PM): ok. pvr108 (12:24:59 PM): What if Mars were in Ge in that example? What would his 2nd house argala on 9th house show? Would it show following dharma in a militant fashion? shris1 (12:25:46 PM): Probably it shows destruction of dharma (since it is a papargala) sanjayrath (12:25:47 PM): Of course, even if Guru is in Makara for Mesha, it does subha-argala on the ninth house indicating that the person shall benefit Guru's and temples pvr108 (12:26:07 PM): ok, so the planets in 11th cause argala on lagna by giving fulfilment of desires (and thus comfort to self). Planets in 3rd cause more desires and stop this sense of fulfulment. pvr108 (12:26:30 PM): at the same time, they cause more desires and more effort and that is what their argala on lagna shows. am i right? pvr108 (12:27:23 PM): Sanjay, does Mars's argala on 9th from 10th show destruction of dharma or following dharma in a militant fashion? Please clarify this sanjayrath (12:27:40 PM): Yes in fact, planets in 10th have a profound impact on the chart for this primary purpose of being the sustenance argala on the 9th house..dharma sustains if the right karma is there?? that is for the INDIVIDUAL and thus Vishnu protects Dharma during Madhya Garatri when the Sun is in the 10th house i.e. Karaka for 9 Sun as Dharma has argala on it b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:27:56 PM): so does it follow that the final house in each trikona shows fulfilment and the end of that particular desire?Sorry, if i am deviating.. dnd108 (12:28:11 PM): what if Rahu is in 10th? dnd108 (12:28:30 PM): how's that influencing 9th? rastapoppolous (12:29:05 PM): for malefics in 3rd from a sign causing argala , do functional malefics qualify ? b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:29:32 PM): only natural malefics, i think shris1 (12:29:39 PM): rasta: No argala is more for Natural Malefics b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:29:59 PM): Guruji was saying that functionality does not matter as much pvr108 (12:30:06 PM): karthik, sanjay already clarified that inherent nature matters the most newtoindia2000 (12:30:08 PM): i assume for argala.. only the nature of the planet is taken...natural benefics and malefics skanda_kumara (12:30:33 PM): Narasimha cd u please increase ur font size??? newtoindia2000 (12:30:56 PM): so, if rahu is in the 10th.. his argala would mean help from ppl from the underworld etc? pvr108 (12:31:01 PM): I first had 10. I thought it was too big and decreased. Ok, I will increase. sanjayrath (12:31:03 PM): A guru isw a guru and even if He lords over the 8ith house, he makes the person free from disease and debt .. pvr108 (12:31:36 PM): Sanjay, does Mars's argala on 9th from 10th show destruction of dharma or following dharma in a militant fashion? Also, what does Rahu's sustaining papa argala on dharma show? b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:32:17 PM): and Venus's? shris1 (12:32:31 PM): But Guruji, in one example you had given (chart of a schezophernic ) Guru was vargottama in the fifth and Guru was responsible for the disease .. shris1 (12:32:54 PM): Debilitated & Vargottama sanjayrath (12:33:00 PM): Argala is very beneficial for the Bhava..all planets in 10 take the person to SWARGA sanjayrath (12:33:22 PM): Yes, rare case where there is a curse from Guru pvr108 (12:33:34 PM): Of course, Guru can give disease, but Sanjay is talking about argala now, where the functional nature matters less and inherent nature matters the most pvr108 (12:33:56 PM): Even if Jupiter is a very bad functional malefic in a chart, his subha argala on lagna will be good for health dnd108 (12:34:17 PM): Sanjayji is that case only with 10th house argala? sanjayrath (12:34:23 PM): In that case Guru was the badhak and he did tantrik pooja..marana type I guess..called spirits etc..results were terrible pvr108 (12:34:29 PM): How will Rahu in 10th take one to swarga? (I know he will, but I am trying to see the modus operandi of Rahu) b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:34:48 PM): tee hee! skanda_kumara (12:35:12 PM): IRahu in 10H wd take him to holy places - piligrimages dnd108 (12:35:30 PM): tirtha yoga sanjayrath (12:35:35 PM): Rahu by nature takes a person away from dharma, but in the 10th he assumes the role of Sri Varaha Avatar shris1 (12:35:54 PM): If Rahu is debilitated in 10th ? newtoindia2000 (12:36:07 PM): but i thought rahu in the 10th.. giving argala will mean that the native's dharma will be influenced by cheaters, underworld etc sanjayrath (12:36:13 PM): Yes, as I mentioned any planet in the 10th in the Rasi chart is like Vishnu..the strongest house pvr108 (12:36:18 PM): Perhaps the person goes on pilgrimages and perhaps follows his karma in foreign places and finally upholds dharma through his karma sanjayrath (12:37:04 PM): Yes, ask Dinanath about my prediction on his Rahu in 10th house..foreign place, foreign wife UL is there.. dnd108 (12:37:29 PM): my wife also has Rahu in 10th pvr108 (12:37:31 PM): yes, he has rahu in 10th in sc dnd108 (12:37:56 PM): after our marriage we visited many holy places pvr108 (12:38:29 PM): so, the bottomline is that all planets (benefic or malefic) in 10th (karma) make one uphold dharma (9th) due to their sustaining argala on 9th. But, based on their nature, the karma followed will be different dnd108 (12:38:36 PM): it was desire of both of us sanjayrath (12:38:38 PM): Now, if he were to worship Varaha Avatar or just come for the Vyankatesa sarma conference and visit Tirupati can you imagine the blessings.. shris1 (12:38:38 PM): Planets in the 10th also have argalas on 7 , 12 apart from 9th . How do we treate 7 & 12 ... ? sanjayrath (12:39:29 PM): That is the point..I have ketu and do not travel and instead write like Matsya avatar trying to save the Veda pvr108 (12:39:37 PM): Why do you call " Vyankatesa " . Isn't it actually " Venkatesa " ? pvr108 (12:40:09 PM): What about the planets in 9th? they have a sustaining argala on 8th? what does it mean? pvr108 (12:40:39 PM): The 9th house shows the dharma or bhagya. The 8th house shows loans, hard work, tapasya, diseases etc. What's the link??? shris1 (12:40:42 PM): Guruji, for ketu the argala is reverse right , there is no argala on 9th but there in on 11th house ? pvr108 (12:40:57 PM): That's for the house containing ketu pvr108 (12:41:17 PM): Sc has no Ketu. So argalas on it are counted normally. Ketu in Sg has argala on Sc. pvr108 (12:41:30 PM): OTOH, if you want argalas on Sg, you will have to count in reverse shris1 (12:41:40 PM): oh ok pvr108 (12:41:50 PM): For example, Sanjay's 10th house Sg has argala from Mars (in Vi) and negated by Jupiter (in Pi). pvr108 (12:42:27 PM): We counted in reverse because Ketu's in Sg. skanda_kumara (12:42:40 PM): yes shris1 (12:42:54 PM): thanks for the detailed explanation pvrji shris1 (12:42:59 PM): If ketu is conjorned with other planets and if ketu is weak (debilitated) does this reverse rule (on house) still apply ? pvr108 (12:43:22 PM): my understanding is that it does. Sanjay ji can clarify further pvr108 (12:43:53 PM): Sanjay: What about the planets in 9th? they have a sustaining argala on 8th? what does it mean? The 9th house shows the dharma or bhagya. The 8th house shows loans, hard work, tapasya, diseases etc. What's the link??? skanda_kumara (12:45:31 PM): Narasimha, wouldnt they show the hand of luck/blessings of Vishnu for better health, 9H is also for dhana and it aids in getting loans or clearing it etc pvr108 (12:45:51 PM): In future, we should try to install a sound card and a microphone in Sanjay's PC. He can speak and all of us can type. That will be the best use of Sanjay's time. skanda_kumara (12:46:12 PM): 9H is also Dhyana which is imprtant in Tapasya dnd108 (12:46:12 PM): he has it and a mic pvr108 (12:46:13 PM): But lagna shows health and 8th house shows fall of it. pvr108 (12:46:22 PM): Oh pvr108 (12:46:57 PM): then he should be able to speak. if too many people speak at the same time, things go bad. if only one end speaks at a time, this will work fine skanda_kumara (12:47:08 PM): as a trine from 1H wouldnt 9H also play and important role .. Narasimha pvr108 (12:47:19 PM): but 8th shows more than tapasya. it shows debts and diseases too skanda_kumara (12:47:45 PM): yes then beneficial argala helps in tapasya and removes diseases skanda_kumara (12:47:56 PM): as good health is essentail in Tapasya skanda_kumara (12:48:03 PM): i,e is the basis of Hatha Yoga pvr108 (12:56:24 PM): Sanjay, what is the meaning of the sustaining argala of the planets in the 9th house (dharma/bhagya) on the 8th house (debts, diseases, tapasya)? pvr108 (12:57:52 PM): Sanjay, what is the meaning of the sustaining argala of the planets in the 9th house (dharma/bhagya) on the 8th house (debts, diseases, tapasya)? sanjayrath (12:58:16 PM): It sustains the bad karma..life after life..birth after birth..nothing iws really written off without good karma adding to the balance sheet pvr108 (12:58:59 PM): how does following dharma sustain bad karma? doesn't Jupiter in 9th make one follow dharma well? How will he sustain bad karma?? pvr108 (12:59:00 PM): shris1 (12:59:11 PM): Sanjaiji (small degression) , If ketu is in a house with another planet and ketu is debilitated , will the reverse argala rule on house still apply ? sarbani3062002 (12:59:14 PM): How can dharma sustain bad karma? I thought it enabled good karma? and erased the bad? skanda_kumara (12:59:48 PM): Yes to Shriram shris1 (01:00:11 PM): thanks skanda pvr108 (01:00:43 PM): If Jupiter is in 9th, what is the meaning of his sustaining argala on 8th? Does it somehow promote the bad karma? I can't understand how.... sanjayrath (01:01:13 PM): The sustenance of NIJA DOSHA does not manifest with subhargala coming from Guru in 9 whereas Sani in 9 will surely pvr108 (01:01:46 PM): i'm lost sanjayrath (01:02:23 PM): manifest. However, Guru in 9 is only going to ensure that this sustains for another date when sani dasa comes os such graha that can cause the NIJA dosha to manifest dnd108 (01:02:40 PM): what is NIJA dosa? pvr108 (01:02:47 PM): what do u mean by nija dosha sanjayrath (01:03:35 PM): Nija is self and dosha is flaws coming from bad karma that has caused this rebirth in Mrityu loka dnd108 (01:04:06 PM): that means that everyone born in material world has NIJA dosa sanjayrath (01:04:22 PM): Thus Nija dosha is the sins done by us and us alone..that are attached to the atma like a cloth dnd108 (01:04:36 PM): bad karma? sanjayrath (01:04:43 PM): Yes dnd108 (01:04:43 PM): in simple words pvr108 (01:05:23 PM): guru in 9th shows good guidance which will not solve the bad karma problem, but will postpone the results pvr108 (01:05:55 PM): sarbani3062002 (01:05:55 PM): Then what will solve the bad karma problem ultimately? newtoindia2000 (01:06:16 PM): sat i guess will solve it.. with punishment dnd108 (01:06:38 PM): other graha causing bad karma to manifest is Rahu I guess apart from Sani? sarbani3062002 (01:06:39 PM): If guru in 9th is the temporary solution, who is the permanent one? sanjayrath (01:06:48 PM): Not really. Guru in 9 is only giving good upadesa and advising on the merits of punya and gives opportunity to do good karma during its period so that a large chunk of nija dosha is wiped out sarbani3062002 (01:07:02 PM): ok dnd108 (01:07:11 PM): so the cleansing process pvr108 (01:07:35 PM): so, 9th is only upadesa or guidance. the actions we perform are seen only from 10th. so 10th has the most crucial influence on the dharma we follow dnd108 (01:07:54 PM): that means that Jup in 9th will lead a person to association of sadhus and hopefully person will take up spiritual life and wipe of some of the bad karma sanjayrath (01:08:02 PM): If I have money, then only can I donate to an ashram..that is Guru in 9. He gives money and the upadesa to sarajitp (01:08:14 PM): I hope I am not disturbing the conversation, but just not getting any messages pvr108 (01:08:24 PM): what is the meaning of the argala of a planet in 11th on 8th (4th house argala)? pvr108 (01:08:24 PM): dnd108 (01:08:29 PM): but apart from donating money people can also render service in the ashram dnd108 (01:08:57 PM): that requires no money and in most of the cases cleanses person much faster than donating money pvr108 (01:09:04 PM): dnd108 (01:09:07 PM): can that also be Jupiter in 9th? sanjayrath (01:09:23 PM): I just gave an example sanjayrath (01:09:35 PM): Guru will also give the skill to render service.. dnd108 (01:09:50 PM): ok sanjayrath (01:09:59 PM): Guru also gives the mantra to do Japa sarbani3062002 (01:10:15 PM): Guru in 9th will guide us in performing the right actions in 10th? sanjayrath (01:10:24 PM): Guru also gives the opportunity to serve Krishna at a temple! like Patraka prabhu pvr108 (01:10:39 PM): pvr108 (01:11:06 PM): so planets with sustaining argala on 8th do not sustain nija dosha, but help in reducing it. is that right??? sanjayrath (01:11:07 PM): You see there is no end to this list dinanatha..now come to SUKHA ARGALA of 11th on 8th that gives JYOTISH VIDYA sanjayrath (01:12:05 PM): Time is the Key out here..If Guru is ruling then he gives a chance to ATONE skanda_kumara (01:12:37 PM): ok sanjayprabhakaran (01:12:45 PM): ok sanjayrath (01:13:07 PM): Whether the person will or not depends on other argala like say there are 2 planets in 7th house, then he will get into too many other things with the time and money instead of going to atone newtoindia2000 (01:13:25 PM): gurudev, can you elaborate on SUKHA ARGALA of 11th on 8th that gives JYOTISH VIDYA dnd108 (01:13:33 PM): yes pvr108 (01:14:35 PM): .. newtoindia2000 (01:15:10 PM): is everyone here? sanjayrath (01:15:11 PM): What is SUKHA? Try to answer this first dnd108 (01:15:12 PM): argala of 11th house would show fulfilment od desires as we heard today dnd108 (01:15:19 PM): sukha is beneficial pvr108 (01:15:42 PM): dnd108 (01:15:47 PM): now how is that conected to 8th house argala dnd108 (01:15:48 PM): ? b_lakshmi_ramesh (01:15:50 PM): sukha is ananda..1st step to moksha skanda_kumara (01:16:21 PM): Sukha ... happiness ... is self- contentment sarbani3062002 (01:16:41 PM): Iha lok sukh or para lok sukh? skanda_kumara (01:16:55 PM): so 4H argala causes self-contentment to the houses it argalas sanjayrath (01:17:12 PM): good others skanda_kumara (01:17:23 PM): so planets in 11H provides sources for self-contentment to matters pertaining to 8H like jyotish etc skanda_kumara (01:17:52 PM): or that which causes one to be free from mind imposed desires shris1 (01:17:59 PM): Namastae all , i had some problems in YM .. rastapoppolous (01:18:52 PM): 11th as 4th from 8th becomes the place of education for 8th house matters. an argala on 8th house promotes this ? skanda_kumara (01:18:58 PM): is Narasimha there??? dnd108 (01:19:10 PM): should be sanjayrath (01:20:09 PM): You see..there are so many opinions, and yet none can explain this so that all can easily agree dnd108 (01:20:12 PM): here is something auspicious dnd108 (01:20:34 PM): holy sanjayrath (01:20:37 PM): Narasimha, sarajit please tell me what is sukha? newtoindia2000 (01:21:21 PM): sukha is more than fulfillment of desires... isnt it a state of bliss? dnd108 (01:21:44 PM): happiness is normal translation sarbani3062002 (01:22:09 PM): There may be more than one kind of sukha skanda_kumara (01:22:35 PM): Sukha is that state which leads to Moksha(4H) ashwiyn (01:22:36 PM): sukha is a state of mental and physical happiness where the desire to get more and more is reduced and when the desire to rise above the basic necessities of life arises sarbani3062002 (01:22:39 PM): One which is temporal and the other which is eternal sanjayrath (01:22:46 PM): Yes it is the relationship that one share sonly with mother..can take for granted..that which is always there and never leaves you even if you run away a hundred times..that which is YOURS and only yours..something close..that touches the heart..the seat of Bhagavan sarbani3062002 (01:23:39 PM): so you are talking about eternal bliss? sanjayrath (01:24:14 PM): Now, Sukhargala is what we have and can say as our resources or that which created us for the sake of being skanda_kumara (01:25:31 PM): ok sanjayrath (01:25:39 PM): Eternal is what we crave for skanda_kumara (01:25:44 PM): ok sanjayprabhakaran (01:25:47 PM): beautiful sarbani3062002 (01:25:57 PM): ok sanjayrath (01:26:32 PM): what we have is MOTHER dnd108 (01:27:22 PM): i think we need to find new chat server, is overburdened sanjayrath (01:27:24 PM): OK I am ending here, but not starting again..its midnight, good night skanda_kumara (01:27:33 PM): ok newtoindia2000 (01:27:35 PM): ouch skanda_kumara (01:27:37 PM): good night newtoindia2000 (01:27:39 PM): i was just getting started! dnd108 (01:27:43 PM): when is the next cyberconference? shris1 (01:27:47 PM): good night skanda_kumara (01:27:55 PM): the problem is I think there is a limit to the sockets or something newtoindia2000 (01:28:06 PM): i think it;s diff versions of skanda_kumara (01:28:10 PM): this is not a problem in a small group dnd108 (01:28:19 PM): well here is only 2.30PM so good day skanda_kumara (01:28:19 PM): no everyone has more or less same version shris1 (01:28:20 PM): i think we better create a chat room and then left everyone join it skanda_kumara (01:28:25 PM): 5.0.0.16 sarbani3062002 (01:28:36 PM): Yes you can't just say MOTHER and end...we need to continue at some point sanjayrath (01:28:50 PM): Monday same time..Dinanath find a new server before that.Can our sjvc server work for this? dnd108 (01:29:00 PM): i have one chat client on my web iste dnd108 (01:29:01 PM): site dnd108 (01:29:03 PM): dnd108 (01:29:05 PM): http://dinanatha.com/chat.html dnd108 (01:29:12 PM): normaly works good dnd108 (01:29:19 PM): you can try it out dnd108 (01:29:33 PM): it is java applet so it takes little time to load sarbani3062002 (01:30:00 PM): will some one please send the transcript to all of us...do Visti's dirty job? AS we have missed chunks of it skanda_kumara (01:30:10 PM): I shall sarbani3062002 (01:30:17 PM): Great sanjayrath (11:47:36 AM): Ashwin, namaste. Argala is a vital topic as it is the ONLY method to show that during the course of a dasa, the planet affects EVERY bhava and every Graha..thus everything happens as it has happened earlier, just that somethings become more important shris1 (11:47:46 AM): Namastae all skanda_kumara (11:48:15 AM): ok gurudeva go on dnd108 (11:48:57 AM): how is argala related to dasa? sanjayrath (11:49:27 AM): Thus, a benefic planet having its dasa shall start giving beneficial argala on 3 houses at least and immediately with the onset of this dasa, at least 3 houses flourish skanda_kumara (11:49:41 AM): ok dilipastro (11:49:46 AM): Namaste, Whats the topic? dnd108 (11:49:48 AM): do we see from dasa rasi what invluence that particular rasi will have on other rasis in that dasa skanda_kumara (11:49:57 AM): Dilip, Argala dilipastro (11:50:06 AM): ok dnd108 (11:50:13 AM): and on that bais make prediction sanjayrath (11:50:59 AM): ts within the seed, but it is only with time and patience that the tree grows into its full form dnd108 (11:51:09 AM): ok dnd108 (11:51:59 AM): how do we see fructification of the argala? newtoindia2000 (11:52:13 AM): do we take the dasa rasi as the focal point and then see the argala on it? or do we take the paka? ashwiyn (11:52:33 AM): or should the basic chart also be taken for considering argala sanjayrath (11:52:37 AM): In that manner the Argala is well within the seed planted in the embryo by the father, yet it is only with time that the promises shall show. The beneficial argala shall surely bloom during its dasa, and in the antardasa when this is obstructed the evil shall come or the yoga shall end shris1 (11:52:49 AM): Gurudeva , last time you told the meaning of argala by 11th house and 3ed . Can you please tell the meaning of 2 & 4 and its obstruction ? skanda_kumara (11:53:09 AM): ok sanjayrath (11:54:01 AM): Nice questions..you can take any bhava. take the dasa planet and count 3, 10 & 12 houses from it, this are the houses on which it shall have 11, 4 & 2 argala respectively dnd108 (11:54:31 AM): or dasa rasi for rasi dasas? sanjayrath (11:54:51 AM): yes dnd ashwiyn (11:54:59 AM): sanjay ji will it be applicable when looked from moon and from vimshottari mahadasha lord also newtoindia2000 (11:56:23 AM): ponders the meaning of life sanjayrath (11:56:48 AM): ashwin what do you mean exactly? give an example skanda_kumara (11:56:59 AM): ok great gurudeva ... for example if Cancer Narayana Dasa starts ... the effects of Houses ruled by signs Aries, Gemini & Virgo will manifest right? newtoindia2000 (11:57:10 AM): oops.. sorry for tha msg..(meaning of life) hit the wrong button ashwiyn (11:58:12 AM): if we look from Moon chart then can we take argala's of planets into consideration and if the mahadasha of Jupiter is running on then shall we see from Mahadasha lord Jupiter also by keeping it in Lagna and then look for argalas sanjayrath (11:58:46 AM): ashwin you can take argala from every bhava and every planet..why Moon alone? ashwiyn (11:59:14 AM): and does this also apply for transits sanjayrath (12:00:26 PM): ashwin you can confusing too many things..be clear on one aspect first newtoindia2000 (12:00:36 PM): so, if a planet in a house is intervening in the effects of a dasa rasi.. for example cancer Narayana dasa as skanda said... how do i interpret it? do i say that i will get help from those people the planets represent? for example jup for elders, perceptors, sun->govt etc? ashwiyn (12:00:40 PM): ok sanjayrath (12:02:17 PM): Narayana, the point you make is right..it is like shifting of energy like Money shifts..in the example, Aries Gemini & Virgo shall surely benefit from the presence of NARAYANA (Narayana dasa) in Cancer and their sustenace is vouchsafed skanda_kumara (12:02:44 PM): thanks dnd108 (12:03:42 PM): to see what houses will benefit do we count the houses from Lagna, AL or from Dasa rasi? skanda_kumara (12:04:33 PM): DND, the houses from which the Dasa rasi is in 2, 4 & 11 will benefit and receeive the sustaining energy from Cancer skanda_kumara (12:04:51 PM): I mean the Dasa Rasi .. not Cancer skanda_kumara (12:05:55 PM): and so planets in these benefitted rasis and arudhas in them will also prosper skanda_kumara (12:06:40 PM): skanda_kumara (12:07:09 PM): shris1 (12:07:35 PM): brb shail_c (12:07:46 PM): I joined late - so excuse me if it has already been answered. But, while assessing Argala effects, what Karakatwa is more pronounced - Chara or Naisargika?? And what about the effect of Rasi's themselves?? newtoindia2000 (12:08:04 PM): so, if a planet in a house is intervening in the effects of a dasa rasi.. for example cancer Narayana dasa as skanda said... how do i interpret it? do i say that i will get help from those people the planets represent? for example jup for elders, perceptors, sun->govt etc? skanda_kumara (12:09:22 PM): Shailesh ... in my opinion ... it should be both newtoindia2000 (12:09:45 PM): if yes (to my question above) what kind of help would it be? how to see that? skanda_kumara (12:09:50 PM): Hari ... Yes .... thats how we interpret ... as far as I know skanda_kumara (12:10:12 PM): Gurudeva .. please clarify ... hope u r online! skanda_kumara (12:10:53 PM): Hari - Jupiter - MOney and depending on its Chara Karakatwa, Similarly Sun - Father, Govt and its Charakarakatwa sanjayrath (12:11:30 PM): Sailesh, this is given in the Narayana dasa book as dividing the period into 3 parts newtoindia2000 (12:13:03 PM): thanks skanda skanda_kumara (12:13:20 PM): sanjayrath (12:14:39 PM): There is a visitor at this hour! Please continue..Narayana please continue. I will be back soon skanda_kumara (12:14:52 PM): ok Gurudeva skanda_kumara (12:15:02 PM): Any questions??? skanda_kumara (12:16:24 PM): So it is important to understand that the Dasa Rasi running will provid sustainance to houses on which it argalaes skanda_kumara (12:16:51 PM): and not only promotes matters of those houses but also Arudhas in them shail_c (12:17:15 PM): Can you explain " sustainance " skanda_kumara (12:18:17 PM): Ex. If Cancer Dasa is running and Aries has A10 or Rajyapada, then based on which house Cancer is and planets in them, Job oppurtunities, Image pertaining to Workplace may take a favorable turn skanda_kumara (12:18:28 PM): Sustainance ... Means giving life to skanda_kumara (12:18:42 PM): and provide support skanda_kumara (12:18:55 PM): and nurture shail_c (12:19:55 PM): Thanks - but again, the support will depend on the 'quality' of argala - or virodhargala - right?? skanda_kumara (12:20:08 PM): Quality of Argala - Yes ashwiyn (12:20:53 PM): skanda ji the houses which are giving argala - will their sign lords also effect the house and the planet where the argala is shail_c (12:21:18 PM): Let me elaborate - if Dasa Rasi houses a func. malefic, the argala will be 'papa' - then sustainance will be through foul means!! skanda_kumara (12:21:30 PM): no only the signs and because of this ... the planets in them newtoindia2000 (12:21:31 PM): ashwin.. here it is the house/planet giving argala skanda_kumara (12:22:10 PM): Shailesh .. no, for argala only consider nautural nature and not functional shail_c (12:23:04 PM): Oh - I stand corrected. I remembered some mail where I saw that func. nature should be seen. dilipastro (12:23:31 PM): so, if dasa rasi has a natural malefic, sustenance will be through malefic means? dnd108 (12:23:32 PM): last time we discussed it is for nature of the planet skanda_kumara (12:23:34 PM): Shailesh, actually it was the previous conference where Gurudeva made it cleat dnd108 (12:23:47 PM): not functional nature skanda_kumara (12:23:54 PM): Dilipda, yes shail_c (12:23:59 PM): Sorry - I missed that & Hari is sending me the transcript newtoindia2000 (12:24:54 PM): sailesh.. already sent shail_c (12:25:10 PM): Thanks - did u mail it?? shail_c (12:25:22 PM): Yes - got it newtoindia2000 (12:26:00 PM): yes skanda_kumara (12:26:33 PM): Shailesh, going back to your previous question, if the Dasa Rasi causes argala on house X, then Virodha Argala will also manifest, then it depends which is more stronger the Argala or Virodha Argala shail_c (12:27:02 PM): Right - so the std. agrala rules will apply skanda_kumara (12:27:09 PM): yes Shailesh .. shail_c (12:28:57 PM): An aside here - if there are malefics in 2 & 12, both, then 'papargala' of 2nd should be obstructed by 12th. Then why papa kartari is bad (Hope I do not sound TOO stupid) skanda_kumara (12:29:36 PM): Paapakartaari is bad as the house is surrounded by malefics ... imagine for a moment skanda_kumara (12:29:54 PM): that your house is surrounded by rival gang members on both sides skanda_kumara (12:30:16 PM): because they are each interested in looting you ... newtoindia2000 (12:30:17 PM): walls of fire it seem skanda_kumara (12:30:38 PM): they might fight ... but that doesnt mean ... you are living happily ... skanda_kumara (12:30:59 PM): all the time .. you are filled with apprehension as eventually one bad guy will survive skanda_kumara (12:31:04 PM): and trouble you skanda_kumara (12:31:17 PM): Shaliesh .. Have I made this clear??? shail_c (12:31:39 PM): I iAM a little dense. skanda_kumara (12:31:47 PM): is it still unclear??? shail_c (12:31:52 PM): Yup skanda_kumara (12:31:56 PM): why??? shail_c (12:32:17 PM): Papa argala is support thru 'papa' means skanda_kumara (12:32:42 PM): but there is virodha aragala too shail_c (12:32:47 PM): Now virodhargala of any planet obstructs THAT - right skanda_kumara (12:32:54 PM): and that obstructs it ...right shail_c (12:33:17 PM): So - one negative obstructing another - where is the problem?? skanda_kumara (12:33:39 PM): No .. one negative source ... which can help .. is being obstructed skanda_kumara (12:34:01 PM): and hence there is a constant fight shail_c (12:34:25 PM): OK - but then why virodh of malefic only - even benefic planets can obstruct. skanda_kumara (12:34:38 PM): yes .. but then it would not be called paapargala skanda_kumara (12:34:49 PM): sorry papakartati shail_c (12:35:05 PM): Yes - the original point was papa kartari. skanda_kumara (12:35:15 PM): exactly skanda_kumara (12:35:35 PM): Good question shail_c (12:35:37 PM): My basic query is - is papa kartari worse that papa argala that is unobstructed?? newtoindia2000 (12:35:54 PM): but the means of obstructions will be diff... if it;s a benefic... malefics are harsh skanda_kumara (12:35:55 PM): Yes ... I think so shail_c (12:36:37 PM): I need to chew on that & digest it. ashwiyn (12:36:49 PM): can you elaborate more on harsh -- hari -- what does it mean ? newtoindia2000 (12:37:21 PM): punishment can be soft.. it can be hard too... that;s what i meant... ashwiyn (12:37:58 PM): ok u mean it will show its malefic nature skanda_kumara (12:38:02 PM): I think DND108 can give his perspectives too! dnd108 (12:38:18 PM): about harsh and not harsh? newtoindia2000 (12:38:24 PM): if virudha argala is from a malefic,.. it will be harsh. i think skanda_kumara (12:38:27 PM): no on everything .. ashwiyn (12:39:08 PM): but then harsh to what extent and how will this be defined ashwiyn (12:39:17 PM): the extent of harshness skanda_kumara (12:39:38 PM): the condition of the planet , its Avasthas etc skanda_kumara (12:39:44 PM): that was for Ashwiyn newtoindia2000 (12:39:57 PM): and how many planets who are malefics are obstructing dnd108 (12:40:11 PM): not much to add skanda_kumara (12:40:28 PM): ok dnd ... dnd108 (12:40:44 PM): just wante to clarify with Sanjayji about importance of influence of Argala on particular houses skanda_kumara (12:40:56 PM): Why dont we use Bhagavan Ramas chart as an example??? dnd108 (12:41:25 PM): becuase when we judge the results of the dasa we see it from few points, like rasa dasi, Al, Sun, moon skanda_kumara (12:41:41 PM): yes DND dnd108 (12:42:19 PM): so in this respect i wanted to know the relatshionsip of argala of dasa rasi and above points skanda_kumara (12:42:55 PM): Ok i will answer whatever little I know dnd108 (12:43:04 PM): ok skanda_kumara (12:43:46 PM): As per Narayana Dasa book, the houses which receives Argalas from Dasa rasi will flourish(depending on type and nature etc) for the whole Dasa dnd108 (12:44:10 PM): ok skanda_kumara (12:45:08 PM): then based on this ... Dasa rasi is divided into 3 parts skanda_kumara (12:45:32 PM): liek House, Lord & Planets aspecting and posited dnd108 (12:45:55 PM): ok skanda_kumara (12:45:56 PM): then based on which 1/3 part is dominant ... that will sustain the argalaed houses skanda_kumara (12:46:58 PM): for example skanda_kumara (12:47:21 PM): if Say Cancer Dasa is running skanda_kumara (12:47:26 PM): and the duration is 3yrs skanda_kumara (12:47:43 PM): and only planet therein is Jupiter & Moon dnd108 (12:47:58 PM): are you saying that we'll see argala first from house of the dasa rasi, than it's lord and than planets aspecting skanda_kumara (12:48:08 PM): yes skanda_kumara (12:48:19 PM): depending on the nature of Sign - Prishto etc dnd108 (12:48:36 PM): that is normaly used for determining results of the dasa rasi in Narayana Dasa skanda_kumara (12:48:39 PM): and hence Gurudeva said, that the seed is planted and with time it will show effects dnd108 (12:48:55 PM): i don't know if we can strecth the effects on argala skanda_kumara (12:49:18 PM): yes ... but based on what is predominant (Sign or Planets or aspects) that will predominate in its argala on those houses shail_c (12:50:01 PM): May I interupt - DND said " argala first from house of the dasa rasi, " - shouldnt it be " by the Dasa Rasi " dnd108 (12:51:03 PM): depends on your English, we probably mean the same, the argala of the current Narayana dasa sign dnd108 (12:51:22 PM): regarding the seed Sanjayji said: In that manner the Argala is well within the seed planted in the embryo by the father, yet it is only with time that the promises shall show. The beneficial argala shall surely bloom during its dasa, and in the antardasa when this is obstructed the evil shall come or the yoga shall end shail_c (12:51:29 PM): Sorry - no offnce meant please dnd108 (12:51:33 PM): no probs newtoindia2000 (12:52:04 PM): guys... i got to go now... can someone please send me the transc skanda_kumara (12:52:08 PM): sure dnd108 (12:52:22 PM): skanda as you can see this is related to dasas and antardasas skanda_kumara (12:52:26 PM): yes newtoindia2000 (12:52:27 PM): thanks newtoindia2000 (12:52:29 PM): see ya dnd108 (12:52:42 PM): which are used as a timer when benefical and malefics results will come skanda_kumara (12:52:48 PM): indeed dnd108 (12:53:29 PM): but now if you move after 1/3 of the dasa is completed to the sign occupied by dasa rasi lord skanda_kumara (12:54:00 PM): u r correct skanda_kumara (12:54:08 PM): my statement was incorrect dnd108 (12:54:10 PM): than how is that new sign related to dasa and antardasas? skanda_kumara (12:54:11 PM): sorry skanda_kumara (12:54:25 PM): Argala cannot be broken into 3 parts dnd108 (12:54:31 PM): dasas and antardasas will be the same skanda_kumara (12:54:50 PM): its all or nothing ... and effects will be visible thru aout skanda_kumara (12:55:01 PM): let me state Gurudeva from his books dnd108 (12:55:06 PM): sure skanda_kumara (12:56:35 PM): Argalal and its obstruction on Dasa Rasi can be timed during the AD of the signs involved. However, the Argala or Virodha Argala caused by Dasa Rasi on Lagna and other houses or any planet will prevail during its entire period skanda_kumara (12:57:11 PM): So here there is clear information on 2 things dnd108 (12:57:16 PM): i also think the same skanda_kumara (12:57:50 PM): 1. Dasa rasi causes argala on houses to which it is 2, 4 & 11, and the effects will prevail thru out the period o skanda_kumara (12:58:22 PM): 2. Other signs has Argalas/Virodha Argala on Dasa Rasi and during the AD's they may manifest dnd108 (12:59:06 PM): that the antardasas will initiate beneficial and malefics argalas and depending on the antardasa sign they results of the argala can be seen skanda_kumara (12:59:42 PM): yes dnd108 (12:59:48 PM): i think that we are saying the same skanda_kumara (12:59:53 PM): yes we are skanda_kumara (01:00:03 PM): I agree with you dnd108 (01:00:11 PM): that is how I would interpret Sanjayji's statement dnd108 (01:01:05 PM): i think that should be also some exceptions in these rules dnd108 (01:01:10 PM): in respect to AK dnd108 (01:02:20 PM): i mean the sign ocupied by AK should dominate when we are talking about the results of Argala dnd108 (01:02:42 PM): becuase AK is the strongest and most important planet in the chart shail_c (01:03:11 PM): Can we equate importance with strength?? dnd108 (01:03:38 PM): well, there are standard rules for the strenght of the signs dnd108 (01:03:58 PM): and first rule is that the sign occupied by AK is the strongest shail_c (01:04:04 PM): Yes - Coz AK is the planet that is most advanced - so it may be in bala avastha or vridha avastha dnd108 (01:04:23 PM): so I would say that in this case we can at least for AK dnd108 (01:05:12 PM): apart from all avastas, AK represents Isa or Bhagavan in the chart shail_c (01:05:21 PM): True dnd108 (01:05:47 PM): and becuase of His will the whole universe moves shail_c (01:06:30 PM): Yes - but remember we also check if the AK is debilitated, etc dnd108 (01:06:37 PM): and therefore we cannot overestimate importance of AK in the chart dnd108 (01:06:58 PM): for strenght of the signs ? shail_c (01:07:13 PM): for strength of planets. dnd108 (01:07:26 PM): that is different dnd108 (01:07:57 PM): when we talk of argala we primarly talk about signs shail_c (01:08:06 PM): yes - of course dnd108 (01:08:13 PM): and the results we see from planets in those signs dnd108 (01:08:25 PM): which comes second dnd108 (01:08:52 PM): AK can never be malefic for the native dnd108 (01:09:13 PM): becuase it is always guiding him on the path back to Bhagawan skanda_kumara (01:09:18 PM): DND ..AKs effect manifest thru out life ... teaching us the lessons skanda_kumara (01:09:35 PM): and all other charakarakas are subservient to this King dnd108 (01:09:55 PM): AK itself has no end as a subject shail_c (01:10:02 PM): in Narayana Dasa book, Sanjay ji specifically mentions that the rule reg sign with AK cannot be used for Narayana dasa etc.. (pg 22) dnd108 (01:10:13 PM): it can dnd108 (01:10:18 PM): but not for all people skanda_kumara (01:10:35 PM): Shailesh ,,, it pertains to rules ... but AK is the soul of the chart and plays a dominant role skanda_kumara (01:10:37 PM): example dnd108 (01:10:55 PM): it is used mainly in the charts of prominent personalities and politicians skanda_kumara (01:10:59 PM): I have my AK Saturn Deb in Lagna ... which indicates a curse .. and that shall prevail skanda_kumara (01:11:22 PM): so focussing on removal of curse will help dnd108 (01:11:23 PM): not ordinary people skanda_kumara (01:11:54 PM): and AD of sign containing AK its effects will be more prominent shail_c (01:12:07 PM): No disputes here - but while assessing effects of, & on Dasa rasi, do we consider AK rasi as the strongest inluence?? skanda_kumara (01:12:15 PM): not really shail_c (01:12:29 PM): That was the discussion with DND dnd108 (01:12:56 PM): according to my understanding it should be dnd108 (01:13:12 PM): because of the reasons I explained dnd108 (01:13:25 PM): I haven't red it anywhere skanda_kumara (01:14:05 PM): ok dnd108 (01:14:37 PM): and as I said according to my opinion there should be an exception in connectin with AK dnd108 (01:14:48 PM): and I gave my reasons dnd108 (01:14:55 PM): so we are discussing it skanda_kumara (01:15:30 PM): shail_c (01:15:40 PM): If I quote from my own case, CAP houses AK, VEN, with AL & Sun. Yet, the dasa was just about average, though it caused a break in education & change in line from Engg to BCom dnd108 (01:15:45 PM): so next time we can confirm it with Sanjayji skanda_kumara (01:15:59 PM): yes skanda_kumara (01:16:04 PM): we can confirm shail_c (01:16:15 PM): That would be excellent. dnd108 (01:16:23 PM): but it gives us something to think about dnd108 (01:16:31 PM): which is very logical shail_c (01:16:48 PM): Skanda, I missed the initial discussion - so I too would request a transcript skanda_kumara (01:16:58 PM): transcripts for everybody shail_c (01:17:04 PM): Great ashwiyn (01:17:05 PM): the cafe is closing - i need to go - namaste to all dnd108 (01:17:15 PM): you can maybe send it to varahamihitra group dnd108 (01:17:25 PM): hare krishna ashwiyn skanda_kumara (01:17:26 PM): bye ... I shall mail scripts to everbody shail_c (01:17:36 PM): Bye to all - was great dnd108 (01:17:41 PM): another thing i wanted to say reg Ak skanda_kumara (01:17:45 PM): sure ashwiyn (01:17:45 PM): that will be very nice of you skanda ji dnd108 (01:18:45 PM): during the dasa of AK in Vimsottari dasa it tends to purify the person by punishing it for the bad deeds especialy is Saturn is AK skanda_kumara (01:18:54 PM): I agree with you here dnd108 (01:19:16 PM): in Narayana dasa sign occipied by Ak should give excellent results skanda_kumara (01:19:32 PM): why do u say so??? dnd108 (01:19:34 PM): in drig dasa we use Ak to time renuncuation dnd108 (01:19:45 PM): becuase AK is Narayan skanda_kumara (01:20:05 PM): it all depends i would say dnd108 (01:20:53 PM): these are standard rules skanda_kumara (01:20:58 PM): if its in a bad state ... how can it give good results??? skanda_kumara (01:21:10 PM): hmmm we can confirm it with Gurudeva dnd108 (01:21:18 PM): how can AK be in bad state? jkdasgupta_in (01:21:25 PM): namaste all skanda_kumara (01:21:26 PM): I mean Deb etc dnd108 (01:21:54 PM): if the planet is debilitated that doesn't mean automatically it is in bas state dnd108 (01:22:10 PM): it can still give good results skanda_kumara (01:22:10 PM): then how would you define a bad state skanda_kumara (01:22:24 PM): yes ... if its lord of quadrants skanda_kumara (01:22:40 PM): but why shd it give only good results skanda_kumara (01:22:52 PM): ??? dnd108 (01:23:03 PM): graha ucce niche va sri manta ha dnd108 (01:23:15 PM): upadesa sutras 2.4.8 dnd108 (01:23:21 PM): 2,4,28 skanda_kumara (01:23:23 PM): that applies to any planet ... skanda_kumara (01:23:28 PM): not only to AK dnd108 (01:23:56 PM): true so why not to AK? dnd108 (01:24:10 PM): debilitated planets can give money skanda_kumara (01:24:44 PM): that was based purely on a monetary point of view dnd108 (01:24:57 PM): i would look into avastas of the planets for bad state of it dnd108 (01:25:09 PM): rather than exaltation or debilitation skanda_kumara (01:25:23 PM): FYI, I have seen charts where deb planet has bad results dnd108 (01:25:27 PM): becuase there can also be cancellation of debilitation skanda_kumara (01:25:38 PM): I myself have 4 exalted and 1deb in Rasi dnd108 (01:25:53 PM): in Vimsottari dasa? skanda_kumara (01:25:58 PM): I havent experience all good results ... dnd108 (01:26:37 PM): but you should if you have 4 exalted planets dnd108 (01:26:45 PM): according to what you just said skanda_kumara (01:27:06 PM): I havent .. during AD of Venus .. where I lost a job and no pay for a year!!!! dnd108 (01:27:25 PM): sorry to hear that skanda_kumara (01:27:44 PM): oh no ... I mean I want to see the rules working .. nothing personal dnd108 (01:27:58 PM): but from that we can conclude that exaltation or debilitation is not all in all skanda_kumara (01:28:02 PM): yes dnd108 (01:28:09 PM): try to see it in Narayana dasa skanda_kumara (01:29:04 PM): I can explain it using ND .. skanda_kumara (01:29:07 PM): to soem extent dnd108 (01:29:17 PM): ok skanda_kumara (01:29:28 PM): but I feel some knowledge is missing ... and we need to do more study on it dnd108 (01:29:52 PM): i also feel the same in my case which is why we are having this discussion skanda_kumara (01:30:01 PM): sure dnd108 (01:30:14 PM): it's like churning the joghurt than the butter will come skanda_kumara (01:30:19 PM): indeed dnd108 (01:30:24 PM): and from there ghee dnd108 (01:30:38 PM): but now at least we have something to ask Sanjayji dnd108 (01:30:46 PM): and get his input skanda_kumara (01:30:54 PM): sure ... shd we stop here and continue later on dnd108 (01:31:00 PM): ok ************************ END ************************************** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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