Guest guest Posted July 26, 2002 Report Share Posted July 26, 2002 om jaya jaggannaatha -------------------- Namaste Friends, This is the continuation of our discussion on Argala. Regards Skanda ******************* ARGALA CONTINUED ******************************** sanjayrath (12:58:19 PM): Where had we stopped last time Narayan? skanda_kumara (12:59:00 PM): Ok we said that when Narayana Dasa of a Rasi starts it sustains the rasis that it has argala over. skanda_kumara (12:59:21 PM): that was when u had to leave sanjayrath (12:59:28 PM): Let us not get into Narayana and other dasa now..let us just discuss argala skanda_kumara (12:59:33 PM): ok sanjayprabhakaran (01:00:24 PM): pratipad? sanjayrath (01:00:51 PM): Now, Argala of any planet on a bhava is beneficial for the Bhava skanda_kumara (01:00:58 PM): ok sanjayrath (01:02:15 PM): How it shall benefit is to be seen from the matters signified by the Bhava and the nature of the planet vis- a-vis the Bhava, and the karaka of the house where it is placed..i.e. both are to be considered skanda_kumara (01:03:01 PM): can u give an example? sanjayrath (01:03:35 PM): For example, Jupiter in the ninth house is very friendly to the Karaka for the 9th and it is also a Karaka for the 9th house, so its Argala on the 8th will surely benefit the native in the long run by removing debts by giving money and good fortune sanjayrath (01:05:31 PM): The same is not true if Saturn is in the ninth house. Saturn is not comfortable in the ninth house and if it has an adverse aspect on the Sun and 8th lord, the native mayb e steeped in debt, yet he will not die, the sukha argala i.e. sanjayrath (01:06:46 PM): on the sixth house is very beneficial for the 6th house and he will surely promote success in battles..BUT there will be battles and battles all the time and also victory after victory.. skanda_kumara (01:07:15 PM): ok I see, so we take 1. The planet which gives argala 2. Which house it is in 3. If the planet is good in that house skanda_kumara (01:07:26 PM): ok gotcha skanda_kumara (01:07:45 PM): so the karaka is very important as given by sage satyacharya sanjayrath (01:08:48 PM): The mot difference is that the 6th house has 2 Karaka - Mars & Saturn and here Saturn will give enemies as it will promote the 6th house matters governed by it, and it will also destroy enemies as it is inimical to Mars the other Karaka of 6th house sanjayrath (01:09:19 PM): For the 8th house, saturn will surely promote the 8th house and then it will extract every punishment for sins committed in last birthss skanda_kumara (01:09:29 PM): ok sanjayrath (01:10:24 PM): That is the main difference..you got to see the house concerned and its significations as well skanda_kumara (01:10:29 PM): sure sanjayrath (01:12:40 PM): Now as a test case, explain the Argala of Jupiter on the 5th house by say being in (1) 6th house (2) 8th house sanjayrath (01:13:35 PM): Go on Narayana skanda_kumara (01:13:42 PM): Here Jupiter wont be comfortable in 6H and it is enemy of Saturn but not with Mars sanjayrath (01:14:43 PM): OK skanda_kumara (01:14:57 PM): Hence it will affect Intelligence to a large extent but it could give children as skanda_kumara (01:15:13 PM): Jupiter is friendly with Mars skanda_kumara (01:15:51 PM): Also Mars represents debts and he will remove debts skanda_kumara (01:15:59 PM): He meaning Jupiter sanjayrath (01:16:20 PM): But Mars is the remover of debts..not giver skanda_kumara (01:16:26 PM): oh ok sanjayrath (01:16:31 PM): Besides sixth really is not for debts skanda_kumara (01:16:41 PM): really??? skanda_kumara (01:16:52 PM): is it 8H? sanjayrath (01:17:03 PM): *th house is the 'Nija' o sanjayrath (01:17:13 PM): yes it is the 8th house skanda_kumara (01:17:18 PM): ok skanda_kumara (01:17:43 PM): But Jupiter will also have control over enemies skanda_kumara (01:17:51 PM): and limit them sanjayrath (01:18:19 PM): Now look at it like this..First step: List the karaka for the 5th house and 6th house here 5th (Jup) and 6th ( Mars & Sat) sri999 (01:18:24 PM): runa vimochana mangala stotra skanda_kumara (01:19:07 PM): ok skanda_kumara (01:20:40 PM): go on gurudeva sanjayrath (01:21:13 PM): Now just as Saturn promoted HIS OWN stuff in the bhavas he had argala on, so also Jupiter will promote the same for the 5th house..many children are promised. Here we are NOT BOTHERED ABOUT 6TH HOUSE skanda_kumara (01:21:25 PM): ok skanda_kumara (01:22:13 PM): so the planet will promote the matters governed by it ... ok got it sanjayrath (01:23:01 PM): Since it is friendly to one Karaka Mars and neutral with the other karaka Saturn, Jupiter in the 6th will also promote authority (5th house matter) over servants (Sat-karaka of 6th) and police, power brokers etc (Mars) skanda_kumara (01:23:25 PM): ok sanjayrath (01:23:39 PM): In this manner you can easily say how things are getting promoted skanda_kumara (01:24:08 PM): ok lets take another example sanjayrath (01:24:11 PM): Jupiter in 6th will employ MARTIAN means to get POWER skanda_kumara (01:24:21 PM): ok sanjayrath (01:24:51 PM): Jupiter in 6th will employ Saturnine means (servants, hard work) to gain authority shail_c (01:24:54 PM): Is it because it is friendly to Mars?? sanjayrath (01:25:16 PM): Yes..it is friendly to Mars AND NEUTRAL to Saturn pvr108 (01:25:24 PM): What about Jupiter in 8th? sanjayrath (01:25:28 PM): Not inimical to saturn sanjayrath (01:25:52 PM): Narayana give it a try.. skanda_kumara (01:26:05 PM): ok skanda_kumara (01:26:22 PM): Now we have to consider 7H and 8H skanda_kumara (01:26:35 PM): Karaka for 7H is Venus and that of 8His Saturn sanjayrath (01:26:45 PM): Why seventh house? we are seeing the argala of 8th house on 5th skanda_kumara (01:26:51 PM): oh ok skanda_kumara (01:26:54 PM): sorry pvr108 (01:26:58 PM): OK then, you're looking at Jupiter's argala on 7th and not on 5th. OK, go ahead skanda_kumara (01:27:09 PM): I will stick to 8H skanda_kumara (01:27:21 PM): Karaka for 8H is Saturn pvr108 (01:27:33 PM): ok, take Jupiter on 8th. First explain his argala on 5th and then 7th skanda_kumara (01:27:54 PM): ok skanda_kumara (01:28:11 PM): Jupiter is inimical to Saturn skanda_kumara (01:28:15 PM): sorry Neutral skanda_kumara (01:28:45 PM): So it will not harm matters pertaining to 5H as explained earlier pvr108 (01:29:09 PM): What if Sun was in 8th? What is the impact of his argala on 5th? skanda_kumara (01:29:32 PM): That shd also help skanda_kumara (01:29:44 PM): as Sun & Jupiter are friends pvr108 (01:29:50 PM): y jup? skanda_kumara (01:30:06 PM): as Jupiter is Karaka of 5H sanjayrath (01:30:15 PM): Thats NOT satisfactory..will not harm is not the issue out here..what will happen? skanda_kumara (01:30:50 PM): he will give happiness from child skanda_kumara (01:31:02 PM): as this is sukhargala sanjayrath (01:31:22 PM): You see Jupiter is the karaka for 5 hence it will promote 5 and children it is OK as you have pointed out, but what about authority, power etc? skanda_kumara (01:31:55 PM): it will promote authority thru occult/deceptive/surreptitious means skanda_kumara (01:32:30 PM): it will give power thru hard work & toil sanjayrath (01:33:57 PM): Authority is towards subordinates, while Power is over the public..authority is often forced by circumstance while power is given by the people one comes into contact with or public at large skanda_kumara (01:34:16 PM): ok sanjayrath (01:35:22 PM): Saturn is the Karaka for 8th house, hence there will be authority over subordinates and promotions etc are likely thorugh retirement (saturn ) of another etc, but no power is promised by this position pvr108 (01:35:33 PM): sanjay, what if Sun was in 8th and having argala on 5th? sun is friendly to Jupiter (5th karaka). but he is inimical to 8th kraka saturn. how to we mix these different factors then? sanjayrath (01:36:07 PM): You have to be very specific about defining the argala..being sukhargala it promotes the well being of children skanda_kumara (01:36:15 PM): ok sri999 (01:36:16 PM): sanjayji pls enlighten shail_c (01:36:47 PM): Can I seek a clarification? I understand that Shani is inmical to Sun but not vis-e-versa sanjayrath (01:37:02 PM): One sec Narasimha let me finish the philosophy..see Chanakya nti based on this argala of 8th on fifth house..Rinakari Pita (a father always in debt) is the greatest enemy of his children. Thus Guru in 8th is a greeat blessing in a chart as the native is never the real enemy of his children and will always see to their happiness skanda_kumara (01:38:31 PM): ok sanjayprabhakaran (01:38:46 PM): isn't Guru in 8th an asura yoga? sanjayrath (01:39:13 PM): Yet in another way it causes asura yoga as it is the representative of Bhagavan going to the t8h house..however 8th house is not that simply defined ..think sanjayrath (01:40:05 PM): Now to Narasimha, being inimical to 8th house, authority is denied but then the children are promoted pvr108 (01:41:18 PM): children are promoted because Jupiter is a friend of Sun. Why is authority denied? skanda_kumara (01:41:38 PM): Sun opposes Saturn ... hence sri999 (01:42:08 PM): mythology says why saturn is inimical to sun his father,saturn's step mother could not bear the intense heat or radiance generated by sun akshaya ,repalced chaya & saturn was born ....chaya putra .... sanjayrath (01:42:41 PM): Because Saturn the zkarak of 8 is highly inimical to sun..another Chanakya Niti (A king falls from power/authority not because of enemies b ut because of bad servants) pvr108 (01:44:16 PM): the 5th shows two things - authority and children. i am still unclear about how we r separating the two. for one, we're using the planet's relationship with 5th karaka. for the other, we are using the planet's relationship with the karaka of the house occupied by it. y? sanjayrath (01:44:37 PM): Now Narayana try another - What is the impact of Saturn in 3 on wealth? shail_c (01:44:55 PM): Sun - authority - is obstructed by inmical servan shail_c (01:45:06 PM): servant- Saturn sanjayrath (01:45:22 PM): Narasimha, because Jupiter will ensure that its argala on the 5th will not disturb its own karakatwa pvr108 (01:45:35 PM): but, i am asking about sun. sanjayrath (01:46:01 PM): Sun is friendly to Jupiter, pvr108 (01:46:11 PM): sun in 8th having sukhargala on 5th - 5th shows both authority and children. sanjayrath (01:46:39 PM): True but authority is not a pure Jupiterian function alone pvr108 (01:46:45 PM): yes, but for judging authority, y r we seeing the 8th karaka? y not the 5th karaka itself? 5th shows authority aliong with children pvr108 (01:47:12 PM): y r we not seeing the karaka of authority but seeing 8th karaka? sanjayrath (01:47:37 PM): It has shades of Mars.. pvr108 (01:47:50 PM): then, sun is a close friend of mars. pvr108 (01:48:07 PM): y doesn't sun in 8th give authority due to his argala on 5th? sanjayrath (01:48:37 PM): But saturn is not..and he will not allow the sun to sit in his house and end up benefiting his enemy..no way skanda_kumara (01:49:37 PM): so the planet argalaing the house will do so if its in a good house and its good friend or neutral to the karaka of the house pvr108 (01:49:38 PM): y will then Saturn allow Sun to sit in his (signified) house and benefit Jupiter's matter? sanjayrath (01:49:51 PM): Argala means that the Sun wants to give authority, but since this is the 8th house, it will not happen. Instead if the Sun was in 6th house where both Mars & Sat are karaka it will happen pvr108 (01:50:05 PM): saturn is not more fond of Jupiter than Mars anyway. sanjayrath (01:50:54 PM): True, but Saturn is not going to disapprove of Suns action pvr108 (01:51:05 PM): It makes sense, but I still I don't see why all this analysis applies only to authority and not to children. Remove and Jupiter and children from the analysis and substitute Mars and authority. same logic then... sanjayrath (01:51:08 PM): towards Jupiter pvr108 (01:51:17 PM): y sanjayrath (01:51:31 PM): Saturn is only against Sun helping Mars pvr108 (01:51:44 PM): and not against sun helping jupiter? why? sanjayrath (01:52:10 PM): Because Saturn is NEUTRAL towars JUPITER,.. pvr108 (01:52:45 PM): i c sanjayrath (01:52:58 PM): So, you see the importance of sambandha as well in this? pvr108 (01:53:08 PM): yes, now i am very clear pvr108 (01:53:27 PM): let us proceed to what u asked narayan: saturn in 3rd having dhanargala on 2nd skanda_kumara (01:53:35 PM): ok skanda_kumara (01:54:02 PM): 2H karaka is Jupiter and 3H karaka is Mars sanjayrath (01:54:03 PM): Now the Argala concept in its higher level involves sambandha of the Graha as well and a great Jyotishaa shall also consider tatkalika sambandha skanda_kumara (01:54:17 PM): hmmm pvr108 (01:54:44 PM): tatkalika? how to use it? what is difference bwteen using tatkalika / natural / compound? sanjayrath (01:55:06 PM): we shall take that at a later date..use the natural for now sanjayrath (01:55:33 PM): Go on..narayan pvr108 (01:55:47 PM): only tatkalika or compound? sanjayrath (01:56:23 PM): ..basic for now .. skanda_kumara (01:56:25 PM): ok skanda_kumara (01:56:55 PM): Saturn is NEUTRAL to Jupiter & INIMICAL to Saturn pvr108 (01:57:49 PM): u mean mars skanda_kumara (01:57:53 PM): So Saturn in 3H wont be able to promote family, wealth etc as it is INIMICAL to the Karaka of 3H where its placed skanda_kumara (01:57:56 PM): yes MArs sorry skanda_kumara (01:58:56 PM): and being in 3H it kills all initiatives, siblings and courage sanjayrath (01:59:26 PM): But Saturn is Neutral to Jupiter, so wjhy should saturn not want to promite wealth out here? sanjayrath (01:59:43 PM): Besides Mars will not OBJECT if Saturn does so.. skanda_kumara (01:59:49 PM): yes I get it skanda_kumara (01:59:52 PM): its clear now sanjayrath (02:00:01 PM): After all Mars is a good friend of Jup skanda_kumara (02:00:11 PM): Saturn will promote wealth & family skanda_kumara (02:00:20 PM): nad provide means of sustainance sanjayrath (02:00:38 PM): Must say good night..I hope this has..wait why family and why speech..later..you please continue pvr108 (02:00:43 PM): Mars wants to help Jupiter's matters, but Saturn has only moderate interest in obeying either. y is the 3rd house placement of Saturn still considered excellent? pvr108 (02:00:50 PM): OK, good night! sanjayprabhakaran (02:01:06 PM): goodnight pvr108 (02:01:36 PM): Narayan, who signified family? Jupiter or somebody else? skanda_kumara (02:01:44 PM): Jupiter pvr108 (02:01:47 PM): Speech is Jupiter and secondarily Mercury skanda_kumara (02:01:53 PM): yes pvr108 (02:02:23 PM): Jupiter signifies 2nd house overall, but not family. Just like Jupiter signified 5th, but not quite the planet of authority. skanda_kumara (02:02:30 PM): ok skanda_kumara (02:02:37 PM): Speech will be Mercury skanda_kumara (02:02:51 PM): but Saturn is a friend of Mercury isint he??? pvr108 (02:02:51 PM): Jupiter signifies 2nd, wealth and speech. But mainly Moon and secondarily Venus are the family planets. That'y sri999 (02:03:00 PM): yes skanda_kumara (02:03:09 PM): ok pvr108 (02:03:11 PM): Moon is exalted in Ta and Venus owns it. Ta is the 2nd house of the natural zodiac skanda_kumara (02:03:17 PM): yes pvr108 (02:03:44 PM): Now look at the relations of Mars (3rd karaka) and Saturn with each of these 2nd signifiers. skanda_kumara (02:03:53 PM): ok sri999 (02:04:05 PM): narshimaji venus & moon combimation is called adhi yoga???? skanda_kumara (02:04:19 PM): nope its not pvr108 (02:04:30 PM): adhi yoga is benefics in 6th, 7th and 8th from Moon. skanda_kumara (02:04:39 PM): we discussed Adhi yoga earlier skanda_kumara (02:04:43 PM): yes thats it sri999 (02:04:45 PM): k skanda_kumara (02:05:17 PM): Mars and Venus are enemies skanda_kumara (02:05:28 PM): Saturn aand Venus are friends pvr108 (02:05:43 PM): but moon is the main signifier of family. skanda_kumara (02:05:49 PM): ok skanda_kumara (02:05:55 PM): so Moon has no enemies sanjayprabhakaran (02:06:15 PM): actually moon has no enimity sanjayprabhakaran (02:06:27 PM): to others...other planet like saturn are inimical to it skanda_kumara (02:07:23 PM): So Saturn will help Moon(Family) but will Mars Allow it??? skanda_kumara (02:07:34 PM): thats the question Narasimha? pvr108 (02:08:15 PM): saturn, being in 3rd, has a chance to influence 2nd. As Mercury is a friend of Saturn, Saturn is most willing to help speech and moderately willing to help wealth and family. pvr108 (02:08:48 PM): However, Saturn is under Mars's control as he is in 3rd. Mars is most keen to help Jupiter and Moon's matters and ok with Mercury. skanda_kumara (02:09:07 PM): ok pvr108 (02:09:30 PM): So Saturn in 3rd helps wealth through forceful means. pvr108 (02:09:36 PM): (Mars) skanda_kumara (02:09:38 PM): sok pvr108 (02:09:45 PM): He helps speech through humility (Saturn) skanda_kumara (02:09:45 PM): let me recap here sanjayprabhakaran (02:09:47 PM): so all three planet, source house karaka and detination house karaka planets common intention only benifits? pvr108 (02:09:56 PM): yes pvr108 (02:10:36 PM): the destination house karakas are the final receivers of the benefits of argala (Moon, Jup, Merc signifying various 2nd house matters here). pvr108 (02:10:53 PM): the planet causing argala is the main agent of this benefit/influence. pvr108 (02:11:20 PM): the source house karaka (Mars signifying 3rd here) is the one having control over the whole transaction. skanda_kumara (02:11:50 PM): and we have to undertand relationship between 1 & 2 2 & 3 and 1 & 3 pvr108 (02:11:59 PM): The relationships between the three ends of this triangle matter. pvr108 (02:12:05 PM): yes skanda_kumara (02:12:18 PM): oh ok sanjayprabhakaran (02:12:43 PM): so the Moon significations from 2nd house willnot benifit as Saturn is enemy of Moon ? pvr108 (02:12:57 PM): the relationship between 1 and 2 is the main thing. relationship between 2 and 3 can alter the degree drastically. Relationship between 1 and 3 adds more motivation to the whole transaction. skanda_kumara (02:13:12 PM): ok pvr108 (02:13:49 PM): Saturn may not try hard to help Moon's 2nd house matters. But Mars will try to force him to help. skanda_kumara (02:13:57 PM): ok sanjayprabhakaran (02:14:02 PM): hmm.. pvr108 (02:14:16 PM): finally the argala is exerted more like that of Mars, i.e. in a Martian way. **************************** END ************************************ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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