RE: [SJC: Varahamihira] Hindu Dichotomy Questions

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave NamahDear Sandy,To question is your BIRTH RIGHT..and never give it up for anything in this world. Your questioning is setting me in a track which I felt was not necessary as the west was not interested or never really went deep.I need to give you a list to consider initially - My Spirit speaks....1. Never accept anything said as the perfect truth without examining it from every possible standpoint. Realise that your own views will undergo a change with time, and then come back to it and question it again. Kena Upanishad shows a debate on the definition of God, and the conclusion is that He cannot be defined, only experienced, and those who experience do not have the language to explain. Limitations of the language, the human mind in perceiving the beginning and end of time and space shall always hinder any attempt to define God. 2. Acceptance of such a limitation and still seeking Him is a sign of spiritual maturity. Then the mind ceases to seek differences realising that the differences are only superficial and skin deep and goes deeper to seek similarities. This will show up in looking for similarities like: - similarities between the opposite sex, where you realise that the sexual difference is only a matter of age (both mental and physical) and as we grow, the opposite sex ceases to be different and we are all friends. That is one of the definitions of the real self, the soul or Atma - it is napunsaka i.e. eunuch sex, neither male nor female, that is why the Atma or Ista devata Who is the ultimate goal of all souls is neither male nor female and the English language forces me to use 'Him' which is WRONG nor can I use the word 'It' for God which is derogatory in a sense..that's why Ista mantra end with the napunsaka word Namah which is neither a male nor a female address. - similarities between people cutting across cultures, where you realise that the culture is only a case of the acculturation process and that the person within is exactly like you. This brings in a feeling of universal brotherhood called 'vasudaiva kutumbakkam' where you view the entire creation as one family from the same parent(s)..children of God. - similarities between different creatures, where you realise that the body is but the 'cage of clay created by varuna (an aspect of God) to suffer our karma' and liberation lies in accepting that the visible truth, the body of clay is a perishable item like the vegetable, and that which has not perished, the spark that makes this block of clay stand up, walk and do so many things, is the real self - So' ham. When this realisation comes, the bite of a dog shall not deter the realised person from preventing the punishment to the dog for biting, the bite of a scorpion shall not prevent the realised person from trying to save it from drowning in a flood..that is the compassion that one feels for all. Then he alone is the Hamsa having realised the Param-Hamsa... 3. Acceptance of the limitation of the mind to dwell in senses: The mind shall dwell in the senses as it is the nature of the mind to react to the sense organs. Blunting the sense organs will only make the person dull witted or thick skinned but will not prevent the mind from dwelling in the senses. What then can be the solution to tame this naughty child that must play? It is your child, your mind and in its play it must be protected, nurtured and prevented from sorrow, anger and such emotions that make it lose its bearings and feel disturbed and pained..it is you, the conscious you. Since the mind must play, give it a song to sing, for like any good melody, which when hummed brings delight and joy, a song is the best thing that keeps the mind happy. The Moon creates the vocalists and singers...representing the mind and its constantly changing moods. - choose a melody that is the best for you, choose a song that is the best for the real you and keep singing it so that the mind is occupied..Gayatri twam gayantam..sing the Gayatri, sing it to your hearts content. Let not the annotations of the pundits nor the austerity of the sanyasis overcome your greater need to sing this song divine. sing the song divine..the Bhagavat Gita (literally the song divine). Let not your limitations of religion, caste and creed which are man made cause boundaries to appear in the vision of the mind. There are no boundaries..sing your song. - there is no right song, there are no wrong songs, anything that rhymes with you and touches your heart is right for you so long as it is not wrong for anybody else. For what is wrong for somebody else has to be wrong for you for they are but an aspect of you, your co-born, born from the same spiritual parents...so sing "om tat sat", sing "buddham saranam gacchami", sing the lords prayer or whatever other song, and the Bhagavat Gita sings-for in each of those songs and manifestations God resides and causes the faith to rest and increase and this is the path to liberation..sooner or later. So Sandy sing your song divine today.Good night and sweet melodies,Sanjay Rath71 Vasant Apartments, Mayur Vihar Ph-1, New Delhi 110091, IndiaTel: +91-11-2713201 Web: http://srath.com http://.org Sandy Crowther [sandy]Sunday, November 03, 2002 12:42 AMvarahamihira Subject: RE: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Varahamihira] Hindu Dichotomy QuestionsDear Phyllis and Group, Thank you for your comments and your insights as to where to get Guru Sanjay’s book. I have emailed manoramaoccult as you have suggested. The reason I have so many questions on Hinduism versus Buddhism, and the dichotomies apparent in the teachings practiced by various Easterners as being the paths of Absolute Truth, are many. As Westerners, we are not so well versed in the Veda(s), nor nearly as rich as Easterners in spiritual culture by virtue of birthright. So to run along a self-initiated spiritual path without seriously questioning these teachings at some point, may result in stagnating error. Without coming to the eventual realization (because of the mass amounts of authors professing authority, and therefore writing on these subjects) or seeking the opinions from those more experienced for the correct translations via authorship of the Veda(s), one can spend a lifetime studying the wrong material, and make very little progress on the spiritual path…if any at all. The Veda(s) are spiritual energy in the form of sound vibration and clearly speak only to the wise with pure hearts, so the steps to enlightenment are deep enough without erring for decades on bad translations and wrong material. I have so many questions on all of it…I personally believe that we need one religion, and one religion only for the planet, and believe the eastern culture holds the keys toward the realization of our true nature and spirituality…I just need to get a hold of the right “keys”…J ~Namaste~ Sandy Crowtherhttp://www.jupitersweb.com/ Phyl Chubb MA [aboutyou]Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:37 PMvarahamihira Subject: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Varahamihira] Hindu Dichotomy Questions Dear Sandy, From my perspective your questions are more than valid, but then I too am western born and bred in Christianity although I now practice Chan Buddhism, simply because I can understand these teachings. I have been able to 'go with the flow' with Hinduism because I accept their idea that there is but one God and this God has many faces. Somehow this makes sense to me as it allows for individual freedom in understanding the huge concept of God. Anyway I am certainly looking forward to the answers you will receive. As for Sanjay's book I suggest you get it from India, from Manorama Books. The service is both fast and resonable. Just contact manoramaoccult and you will get whatever you need. Take care.....................Phyllis - Sandy Crowther varahamihira Saturday, November 02, 2002 8:55 AM[sJC: Varahamihira] Hindu Dichotomy Questions Dear List, Namaste! My first post…J I am again trying to eliminate some confusion, and sort out (in my mind) the different branches of Hinduism…so please excuse both me, and my questions, if they seem elementary and inappropriate for this list…I am not new to Jyotish, but I am quite new to this list. Jyotish and spirituality go hand in hand, in my mind. When on the path to enlightenment, in order to fully understand and absorb one teaching, I think we also need absolute clarity, with respect to the other. I am just looking to get closer to the Truth. Being born and raised a Roman Catholic girl in the USA, the Eastern teachings are somewhat foreign to my native land of birth, however, none the less totally fascinating to me, and have been for some time. I have danced around over the years between practicing Theravadin Buddhism at Vipassana with S.N. Goenka, to reading about different branches of Hinduism, to following the teachings and Self-Realization Lessons of Paramahansa Yogananda. In my search for both the truth and the secrets, I have gathered books written by several authors on different branches. So I guess what I do not understand, is why Hinduism contains so many divisions? It is very confusing to this westerner, as those of us brought up in Catholicism in the west are taught that there is one God by one name, which is God. And his son is named Jesus Christ. There are saints that can be prayed to, but only one God Almighty. So I remain in square one with respect to attaining clarity over time about branches of eastern religion, and as confused as ever. So I have a few questions if I may… For those of you well versed in the subject, what are your thoughts on the trilogy written by the late Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami, Dancing With Siva, Living With Siva, and Merging With Siva? He passed away last year from cancer – (his birth data is Jan. 5, 1927 8:25 AM, Oakland, CA). Anyway, his voluminous writings are so enjoyable to read from an American’s perspective - as far as an American’s ability to truly understand, in an English manner, the writings and beliefs that Hinduism offers, as English translations to these concepts are readily comprehensible within the writings by this author, and therefore leave the western reader with an ability to both better understand the teachings, and relate. So I guess my question is, are these writings intellectually and spiritually supportive, or at a complete dichotomy, as far as relevance and beliefs to Vaisnaivism? In other words, will the Saivite teachings totally spiritually contradict the teachings of Vaisnaivism, or will they be supportive to learning Hinduism? I have always been confused about the “differences” in branches of Hinduism, and WHY there are even differences and different teachings to Hinduism, and I therefore remain totally confused about what reading material to defer to for the real Truth. And how many names are there for One God? I really also enjoy the writings of Stephen Knapp, as he also has a gift of writing about an Eastern subject with clarity. I realize that much of what I am asking is probably largely based on individual personal preferences, but I am interested in knowing the overall preferences for this list. What about Buddhism, and the teachings of Osho and Eknath Easwaran? And what are the list thoughts on who authors the best translation of the Bhagavad-Gita? Also, would anyone know where I could purchase a copy of Sanjay’s book on Vimshottari and Udu Dasas in the United States? I have checked with several jyotish vendors online, and they don’t seem to carry the title. Thanks… ~ Sincerely ~ Sandy Crowtherhttp://www.jupitersweb.com/ Hare Rama KrishnaArchive:varahamihiraFiles:varahamihiravarahamihira/database

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanjay,

 

Thank you for an

insightfully instructive, delightful, and uplifting expository…You are

certainly wise beyond your young years. All of us here, are certainly blessed

for that. J

 

My heart songs are

many, and as varied as the collective rainbow, while the gems that I have

gathered along my many years of searching for Truth - that both touch my heart and resonate with my soul - range in

clarity from simple beauty to multi-faceted beauty. Yes…there really is room for all.

 

It is refreshing to

know that here there is no

dogmatic expectation that must be followed blindly and without question… there

really are no ethereal boundaries or divisions to the Absolute Truth. Truth is realized by being experienced, as you

so eloquently stated below…so I will

continue today to sing my favorite heart song without such concerns, while

searching for finer benevolence of character, and eventual self-realization.

 

Therefore, Sanjay, please

pardon me once again if this is improper and elementary, but the former leads

to the latter. J To

resonate with both my own soul

and heart, my spiritual discipline must

involve reciting these daily spiritual words, such as the words involved in the

suggested daily prayers, in my own native language, which is English, in order

for these prayers to have clear meaning for me. I am (unfortunately L) not

knowledgeable in East Indian language, and to mispronounce a word and/or repeat

a prayer that has no meaning for me because of my lack of understanding of the

Eastern language, is both meaningless, and results in a non-attentive mindless

activity, and therefore understates the purpose of actually being attentive to the heart and soul of the

discipline and its message. I could, on the other hand, I suppose, purchase

tapes with the correct pronunciation of the words involved in the Hindu prayers

and disciplines, (that could get rather expensive too L) but that in itself does little for

me for improving my understanding of what it is I am actually saying. I have a need to know what I am saying, and why…

 

So to make a long

story short, I have taken to the daily discipline as your siksha, in a manner

that speaks more clearly to me, and have taken the liberty to search and find

some of the translations of the morning prayers, and replaced my recitation from

the foreign language native to the East, that I am not well versed in, to the

English language, that I can fully relate to. The malas and mantras are short,

therefore easy enough to recite in the Eastern language, as they are short

enough to remember word for word as far as what

the translation means. The only obstacle to japa mala becomes proper pronunciation,

which I believe I have clarity on.

 

Again, I mean no

disrespect, and I apologize for so many questions at this very busy time in

your life. But if these words

have no meaning whatsoever

for me, and therefore the recitation (and probable mispronunciation) of these

words becomes only a blind and mindless discipline or activity, am I incorrect

in feeling that it can, and maybe

should be so much more? And that

searching for translations is acceptable?

 

Please forgive me

if I am wrong and/or ignorant to your customs, or if I have taken liberties that

those of you from the East may deem improper…I certainly mean no disrespect. I am

merely trying to dissolve the language barrier of East vs West in areas where I

am able to, as barriers significantly impede understanding, learning, and unity

of purpose in both spirituality and jyotish. (Guess I’m trying to build a small

bridge J).

Perhaps these concerns have been addressed before by questions from other

Westerners…and if so, I do apologize.

 

Thank you again for

your very bright lights...and Happy Deepavali!

 

~Namaste~

Sandy Crowther

http://www.jupitersweb.com/

 

-----Original

Message-----

Sanjay Rath [srath]

Sunday, November 03, 2002 12:48 PM

varahamihira ; SJC

Cc: Raghu Goravani

RE: [sJC: Varahamihira] Hindu

Dichotomy Questions

 

 

 

Om

Gurave Namah

Dear Sandy,

To question is your

BIRTH RIGHT..and never give it up for anything in this world. Your questioning

is setting me in a track which I felt was not necessary as the west was not

interested or never really went deep.

I need to give you a

list to consider initially -

 

My Spirit speaks....

1. Never accept anything

said as the perfect truth without examining it from every possible standpoint.

Realise that your own views will undergo a change with time, and then come back

to it and question it again. Kena Upanishad shows a debate on the definition of

God, and the conclusion is that He cannot be defined, only experienced, and

those who experience do not have the language to explain. Limitations of the

language, the human mind in perceiving the beginning and end of time and space

shall always hinder any attempt to define God.

 

2. Acceptance of

such a limitation and still seeking Him is a sign of spiritual maturity. Then

the mind ceases to seek differences realising that the differences are only

superficial and skin deep and goes deeper to seek similarities. This will show

up in looking for similarities like:

 

-

similarities between the opposite sex, where you realise that the sexual

difference is only a matter of age (both mental and physical) and as we grow,

the opposite sex ceases to be different and we are all friends. That is one of

the definitions of the real self, the soul or Atma - it is napunsaka i.e.

eunuch sex, neither male nor female, that is why the Atma or Ista devata Who is

the ultimate goal of all souls is neither male nor female and the English

language forces me to use 'Him' which is WRONG nor can I use the word 'It' for

God which is derogatory in a sense..that's why Ista mantra end with the

napunsaka word Namah which is neither a male nor a female address.

 

-

similarities between people cutting across cultures, where you realise that the

culture is only a case of the acculturation process and that the person within

is exactly like you. This brings in a feeling of universal brotherhood called

'vasudaiva kutumbakkam' where you view the entire creation as one family from

the same parent(s)..children of God.

 

-

similarities between different creatures, where you realise that the body is

but the 'cage of clay created by varuna (an aspect of God) to suffer our karma'

and liberation lies in accepting that the visible truth, the body of clay is a

perishable item like the vegetable, and that which has not perished, the spark

that makes this block of clay stand up, walk and do so many things, is the real

self - So' ham. When this realisation comes, the bite of a dog shall not deter

the realised person from preventing the punishment to the dog for biting, the

bite of a scorpion shall not prevent the realised person from trying to save it

from drowning in a flood..that is the compassion that one feels for all. Then

he alone is the Hamsa having realised the Param-Hamsa...

 

3. Acceptance of the

limitation of the mind to dwell in senses: The mind shall dwell in the senses

as it is the nature of the mind to react to the sense organs. Blunting the

sense organs will only make the person dull witted or thick skinned but will

not prevent the mind from dwelling in the senses. What then can be the solution

to tame this naughty child that must play? It is your child, your mind and in its

play it must be protected, nurtured and prevented from sorrow, anger and such

emotions that make it lose its bearings

and feel disturbed and pained..it is you, the conscious you. Since the mind

must play, give it a song to sing, for like any good melody, which when hummed

brings delight and joy, a song is the best thing that keeps the mind happy. The

Moon creates the vocalists and singers...representing the mind and its

constantly changing moods.

 

-

choose a melody that is the best for you, choose a song that is the best for

the real you and keep singing it so that the mind is occupied..Gayatri twam

gayantam..sing the Gayatri, sing it to your hearts content. Let not the

annotations of the pundits nor the austerity of the sanyasis overcome your

greater need to sing this song divine. sing the song divine..the Bhagavat Gita

(literally the song divine). Let not your limitations of religion, caste and

creed which are man made cause boundaries to appear in the vision of the mind.

There are no boundaries..sing your song.

 

-

there is no right song, there are no wrong songs, anything that rhymes with you

and touches your heart is right for you so long as it is not wrong for anybody

else. For what is wrong for somebody else has to be wrong for you for they are

but an aspect of you, your co-born, born from the same spiritual parents...so

sing " om tat sat " , sing " buddham saranam gacchami " , sing

the lords prayer or whatever other song, and the Bhagavat Gita sings-for

in each of those songs and manifestations God resides and causes the faith to

rest and increase and this is the path to liberation..sooner or later.

 

So Sandy sing your

song divine today.

Good night and sweet melodies,

Sanjay Rath

 

71 Vasant

Apartments, Mayur Vihar Ph-1, New Delhi 110091, India

Tel: +91-11-2713201

Web: http://srath.com

http://.org

 

 

 

Sandy Crowther

[sandy]

Sunday, November 03, 2002 12:42 AM

varahamihira

RE: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Varahamihira]

Hindu Dichotomy Questions

Dear

Phyllis and Group,

 

Thank

you for your comments and your insights as to where to get Guru Sanjay’s book.

I have emailed manoramaoccult as you have suggested.

 

The

reason I have so many questions on Hinduism versus Buddhism, and the

dichotomies apparent in the teachings practiced by various Easterners as being

the paths of Absolute Truth, are many.

 

As

Westerners, we are not so well versed in the Veda(s), nor nearly as rich as

Easterners in spiritual culture by virtue of birthright. So to run along a

self-initiated spiritual path without seriously questioning these teachings at

some point, may result in stagnating error. Without coming to the eventual

realization (because of the mass amounts of authors professing authority, and

therefore writing on these subjects) or seeking the opinions from those more

experienced for the correct translations via authorship of the Veda(s), one can

spend a lifetime studying the wrong

material, and make very little progress on the spiritual path…if any at all.

The Veda(s) are spiritual energy in the form of sound vibration and clearly

speak only to the wise with pure hearts, so the steps to enlightenment are deep

enough without erring for decades on bad translations and wrong material.

 

I

have so many questions on all of it…I personally believe that we need one

religion, and one religion only for the planet, and believe the eastern culture

holds the keys toward the realization of our true nature and spirituality…I

just need to get a hold of the right “keys”…J

 

 

 

~Namaste~

Sandy Crowther

http://www.jupitersweb.com/

 

-----Original

Message-----

Phyl Chubb MA [aboutyou]

Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:37 PM

varahamihira

[sJC: Varahamihira] Re:

Varahamihira] Hindu Dichotomy Questions

 

Dear Sandy,

 

From my perspective your questions are more than

valid, but then I too am western born and bred in Christianity although I now

practice Chan Buddhism, simply because I can understand these teachings. I

have been able to 'go with the flow' with Hinduism because I accept their idea

that there is but one God and this God has many faces. Somehow this makes sense

to me as it allows for individual freedom in understanding the huge

concept of God. Anyway I am certainly looking forward to the answers you will

receive.

 

As for Sanjay's book I suggest you get it from

India, from Manorama Books. The service is both fast and resonable. Just

contact manoramaoccult

and you will get whatever you need.

 

Take care.....................

Phyllis

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

Sandy Crowther

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

varahamihira

Saturday, November 02, 2002 8:55 AM

[sJC: Varahamihira] Hindu Dichotomy Questions

 

Dear List,

 

Namaste!

 

My first post…J

I am again trying to eliminate some confusion, and sort out (in my mind) the

different branches of Hinduism…so please excuse both me, and my questions, if

they seem elementary and inappropriate for this list…I am not new to Jyotish,

but I am quite new to this list. Jyotish and spirituality go hand in hand, in

my mind. When on the path to enlightenment, in order to fully understand and

absorb one teaching, I think we also need absolute clarity, with respect to the

other. I am just looking to get closer to the Truth.

 

Being born and raised a

Roman Catholic girl in the USA, the Eastern teachings are somewhat foreign to

my native land of birth, however, none the less totally fascinating to me, and

have been for some time. I have danced around over the years between practicing

Theravadin Buddhism at Vipassana with S.N. Goenka, to reading about different

branches of Hinduism, to following the teachings and Self-Realization Lessons

of Paramahansa Yogananda. In my search for both the truth and the secrets, I

have gathered books written by several authors on different branches. So I

guess what I do not understand, is why Hinduism contains so many divisions? It

is very confusing to this westerner, as those of us brought up in Catholicism

in the west are taught that there is one God by one name, which is God. And his

son is named Jesus Christ. There are saints that can be prayed to, but only one

God Almighty. So I remain in square one with respect to attaining clarity over

time about branches of eastern religion, and as confused as ever.

 

So I have a few questions if I may…

 

For those of you well versed in the subject, what are your thoughts on

the trilogy written by the late Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami, Dancing With Siva, Living With Siva, and Merging With

Siva? He passed away last year from cancer – (his birth data is Jan.

5, 1927 8:25 AM, Oakland, CA). Anyway, his voluminous writings are so enjoyable

to read from an American’s perspective - as far as an American’s ability to

truly understand, in an English manner, the writings and beliefs

that Hinduism offers, as English translations to these concepts are readily

comprehensible within the writings by this author, and therefore leave the

western reader with an ability to both better understand the teachings, and

relate. So I guess my question is, are these writings intellectually and

spiritually supportive, or at a complete dichotomy, as far as relevance and

beliefs to Vaisnaivism? In other words, will the Saivite teachings totally

spiritually contradict the teachings of Vaisnaivism, or will they be supportive

to learning Hinduism?

 

I have always been confused about the “differences”

in branches of Hinduism, and WHY there are even differences and different teachings to Hinduism,

and I therefore remain totally confused about what reading material to defer to

for the real Truth. And how many names are there for One God? I really also

enjoy the writings of Stephen Knapp, as he also has a gift of writing about an

Eastern subject with clarity. I realize that much of what I am asking is

probably largely based on individual personal preferences, but I am interested

in knowing the overall preferences for this list. What about Buddhism, and the

teachings of Osho and Eknath Easwaran? And what are the list thoughts on who authors the best translation of the

Bhagavad-Gita?

 

Also, would anyone know where I could purchase a copy of Sanjay’s book

on Vimshottari and Udu Dasas in

the United States? I have checked with several jyotish vendors online, and they

don’t seem to carry the title. Thanks…

 

 

~

Sincerely ~

Sandy Crowther

http://www.jupitersweb.com/

 

 

Hare Rama Krishna

Archive:varahamihira

Files:varahamihira

varahamihira/database