Appointment of new Gurus and Administrative heads - Mr. Abbot

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Abbot,

 

Thank you for your response. No hard feelings ...

My 'sensitivity' to the English language (which is one of five that I control)

is based simply on the fact that it is often 'misused' or rather say 'misleading'

in various occasions.

Under various circumstances, a word can either BUILD or DESTROY

depending on the connection under which it is used.

 

This goes without saying to all areas of life and in particular to those like

Vedic astrology where many words and terms are freely translated from

Sanskrit (or any other language for that matter).

Often you'll find controversy in the translation of a word or sloka as well as

the use of words like "maybe", "may", "likely", "could" etc. which frequently

add to the general confusion.

 

One should never forget that personal PERCEPTION and BELIEF is the key to

human understanding and acceptance, where the WORD is the root which

often builds or destroys the EXPECTATIONS attached to it.

 

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

 

 

 

JI Abbot <

Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:14 pm Re: |Sri Varaha| Appointment of new Gurus and Administrative heads

 

Greetings.

 

At this hour, we actually seem to be just about 100% on the same page, so far as I can tell. You have clarified your perspective really lucidly (and with compassion for those of us who didn't "get" it the first time 'round!)

 

I also intended no disrespect in tussling over these particulars with you, and in fact I welcome you as a new friend with sensitivities and a streak of stubbbornness quite similar to my own in matters of language. (If I may so presume!)

 

Thanks for continuing to dedicate your thinking to this major issue. I am constantly weighing language-based strategies for extricating astrology from the far-out, gloopy reputation perhaps 50-80 per cent of practicing astrologers (themselves far too far-out and gloopy) have earned for it.

 

Sincerely,

 

JIA

 

PS If anyone's wondering, "gloopy" is purely onomatopoetic, sound as meaning. Don't think about it; feel the contours of the sound and you'll know what I'm getting at.

 

 

 

 

"J.Weiss" <jayhw wrote:

 

 

Dear Mr. Abbot,

 

I appreciate your mail and your sincere comments.

I certainly accept and respect everyone who reached a high level of Jyotish study, proving a reasonable degree (?) of correct analysis and percentage of accurate predictions (?).

In other words, one who's Jyotish work results truly help others in the spirit of Jyotish teachings.

The Jyotish Guru title (or similar) is perfect and highly respected for those.

 

 

It is certainly NOT the individuals in question (or any others for this matter) but the subject of Jyotish and Astrology as an accepted science in the public eye.

 

No emotions were involved while writing my comment, only common sense.

 

My main reason for 'objecting' the 'professor' title is the misleading effects and the building of a title hierarchy in this field without having a legitimate and acknowledged/approved body to control it. This has never been attempted before as far as I am aware of (here I must add that I have my full respect for Sanjay Rath but even he may be misled by others).

 

You are probably aware, just as well as most of us here, of the extensive misuse of titles in the west (and probably in the east too), which cause much suffering and financial losses to many people (here I refer to 1000's of fraud cases by so called 'astrologers' and the like).

 

It is difficult enough as it is to 'convince' people of the value of predictive astrology (Jyotish). Titles which are related to the academic world (true or honorable) have no place in this area in my opinion.

What impression will one get of a 'Jyotish doctor' as an example ? How do you think people will react when the 'professor's' predictions go wrong ? will he get a bad name or astrology ?

 

So my basic reaction is in trying to protect Jyotish, nothing else.

 

With kindest regards

Jay Weiss

 

 

 

 

-

JI Abbot

varahamihira

Friday, July 11, 2003 1:28 AM

Re: |Sri Varaha| Appointment of new Gurus and Administrative heads

 

 

 

Dear Mr. Weiss,

 

I believe that your original intention was based in good faith, but you appear to have allowed some emotional investment to get in the way of total objectivity in this matter.

 

Within academia itself there is considerable ambiguity on this issue, as the term "Professor" is employed both as a general honorific for any warm body at the front of a classroom and within the hierarchy / pecking order of, say, Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, Professor, "University Professor" (a further honor/title), "William J. Clinton Professor of Law and Public Policy" (named professorship), etc. Each institution will have a somewhat different arrangement -- though you're right that there exist time-honored traditions based on tremendous work, accomplishment and sacrifice.

 

Perhaps the key issue here is accreditation or on what social basis we legitimize institutions and deem them acceptable. Remember first that the original colleges and universities were schools for theological study and preparatory institutions for priests. SJC would not be an absolute departure from such a European model in this respect, given the spiritual basis of SJC's Jyotish instruction. But more generally, anyone anywhere can launch a college - albeit likely without accreditation - and hire people to teach there as professors.

 

The process through which professional standards are set and institutions are legitimized is always a worthy subject for analysis, study and deconstruction. In the case of SJC, we have a noteworthy and impressive basis for such standards in the organization's thorough grounding in a parampara or lineage. The degree to which this socioreligious basis in the Sanatana Dharma is compatible with Euro-American academic nomenclature has perhaps some element of subjectivity to it, no? Certainly those individuals appointed as Jyotisha Gurus can demonstrate their mettle at any given moment and run intellectual circles around both most astrologers *and* quite a number of academics. This is at least my experience.

 

It seems to me important to distinguish between whether you object on semantic grounds to the use of the title "professor" -- i.e., because it's simply the wrong term and inapposite, i.e., apples and oranges -- or whether you are otherwise concluding and therefore suggesting that the appointed Gurus do not have intellectual or academic experience commensurate with said position and title. (e.g., if the concern regards the equivalent of a Masters thesis or doctoral dissertation, this should be proffered.)

 

Perhaps you bring one grievance, perhaps the other, or maybe both, but I really think it's essential first to separate the issues.

 

Respectfully,

 

J.I. Abbot

Jyotish Toddler

(and Lecturer in English, University of Hartford -- my kids call me either Mr. Abbot or Prof.)"J.Weiss" <jayhw wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Sarabani and all members,

 

This mail is sent in good faith so please do not misinterpret it!

 

I strongly object to the misuse of the title "Professor" as described in SJC's last 'Appointment of Jyotisha guru's".

 

The title professor is a genuine academic title which follows a specific predefined international criteria and used by recognized academic institutions.

The title 'professor' is earned in universities after many years of study, sweat, blood, tears and difficult exams, usually taking a part of a life time.

 

SJC is NOT an academic institution nor a recognized high-education institute and as such has no authority to allocate or appoint academic titles.

 

I may be wrong but I find it very unethical and certainly against the purity that Jyotish teaches us.

It will be advisable to review this issue prior to any action from any officials ...

 

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

 

 

 

-

Sarbani

; varahamihira ; vedic astrology ; SJC: Vyasa ; sjcasia

Cc: Dhira.Krsna.BCS ; swee ; sarajit ; gauranga ; ahimsa ; chandra ; Karu-1 ; satyaprakasika ; vishnu

Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:31 PM

|Sri Varaha| Appointment of new Gurus and Administrative heads

 

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

 

 

Dear Jyotisha,

 

Sri Jagannath Center is pleased to announce on this auspicious day, new jyotisha gurus, SJC gurus (regional gurus) and country heads for the Asia, Australia and European regions. The names of the newly appointed gurus and administrative heads are listed in the attached pdf file.

 

With best wishes,

 

Sarbani Sarkar

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Abbot,

 

Thank you for your response. No hard feelings ...

My 'sensitivity' to the English language (which is one of five that I control)

is based simply on the fact that it is often 'misused' or rather say 'misleading'

in various occasions.

Under various circumstances, a word can either BUILD or DESTROY

depending on the connection under which it is used.

 

This goes without saying to all areas of life and in particular to those like

Vedic astrology where many words and terms are freely translated from

Sanskrit (or any other language for that matter).

Often you'll find controversy in the translation of a word or sloka as well as

the use of words like "maybe", "may", "likely", "could" etc. which frequently

add to the general confusion.

 

One should never forget that personal PERCEPTION and BELIEF is the key to

human understanding and acceptance, where the WORD is the root which

often builds or destroys the EXPECTATIONS attached to it.

 

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

 

 

 

JI Abbot <

Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:14 pm Re: |Sri Varaha| Appointment of new Gurus and Administrative heads

 

Greetings.

 

At this hour, we actually seem to be just about 100% on the same page, so far as I can tell. You have clarified your perspective really lucidly (and with compassion for those of us who didn't "get" it the first time 'round!)

 

I also intended no disrespect in tussling over these particulars with you, and in fact I welcome you as a new friend with sensitivities and a streak of stubbbornness quite similar to my own in matters of language. (If I may so presume!)

 

Thanks for continuing to dedicate your thinking to this major issue. I am constantly weighing language-based strategies for extricating astrology from the far-out, gloopy reputation perhaps 50-80 per cent of practicing astrologers (themselves far too far-out and gloopy) have earned for it.

 

Sincerely,

 

JIA

 

PS If anyone's wondering, "gloopy" is purely onomatopoetic, sound as meaning. Don't think about it; feel the contours of the sound and you'll know what I'm getting at.

 

 

 

 

"J.Weiss" <jayhw wrote:

 

Dear Mr. Abbot,

 

I appreciate your mail and your sincere comments.

I certainly accept and respect everyone who reached a high level of Jyotish study, proving a reasonable degree (?) of correct analysis and percentage of accurate predictions (?).

In other words, one who's Jyotish work results truly help others in the spirit of Jyotish teachings.

The Jyotish Guru title (or similar) is perfect and highly respected for those.

 

 

It is certainly NOT the individuals in question (or any others for this matter) but the subject of Jyotish and Astrology as an accepted science in the public eye.

 

No emotions were involved while writing my comment, only common sense.

 

My main reason for 'objecting' the 'professor' title is the misleading effects and the building of a title hierarchy in this field without having a legitimate and acknowledged/approved body to control it. This has never been attempted before as far as I am aware of (here I must add that I have my full respect for Sanjay Rath but even he may be misled by others).

 

You are probably aware, just as well as most of us here, of the extensive misuse of titles in the west (and probably in the east too), which cause much suffering and financial losses to many people (here I refer to 1000's of fraud cases by so called 'astrologers' and the like).

 

It is difficult enough as it is to 'convince' people of the value of predictive astrology (Jyotish). Titles which are related to the academic world (true or honorable) have no place in this area in my opinion.

What impression will one get of a 'Jyotish doctor' as an example ? How do you think people will react when the 'professor's' predictions go wrong ? will he get a bad name or astrology ?

 

So my basic reaction is in trying to protect Jyotish, nothing else.

 

With kindest regards

Jay Weiss

 

 

 

 

-

JI Abbot

varahamihira

Friday, July 11, 2003 1:28 AM

Re: |Sri Varaha| Appointment of new Gurus and Administrative heads

 

 

 

Dear Mr. Weiss,

 

I believe that your original intention was based in good faith, but you appear to have allowed some emotional investment to get in the way of total objectivity in this matter.

 

Within academia itself there is considerable ambiguity on this issue, as the term "Professor" is employed both as a general honorific for any warm body at the front of a classroom and within the hierarchy / pecking order of, say, Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, Professor, "University Professor" (a further honor/title), "William J. Clinton Professor of Law and Public Policy" (named professorship), etc. Each institution will have a somewhat different arrangement -- though you're right that there exist time-honored traditions based on tremendous work, accomplishment and sacrifice.

 

Perhaps the key issue here is accreditation or on what social basis we legitimize institutions and deem them acceptable. Remember first that the original colleges and universities were schools for theological study and preparatory institutions for priests. SJC would not be an absolute departure from such a European model in this respect, given the spiritual basis of SJC's Jyotish instruction. But more generally, anyone anywhere can launch a college - albeit likely without accreditation - and hire people to teach there as professors.

 

The process through which professional standards are set and institutions are legitimized is always a worthy subject for analysis, study and deconstruction. In the case of SJC, we have a noteworthy and impressive basis for such standards in the organization's thorough grounding in a parampara or lineage. The degree to which this socioreligious basis in the Sanatana Dharma is compatible with Euro-American academic nomenclature has perhaps some element of subjectivity to it, no? Certainly those individuals appointed as Jyotisha Gurus can demonstrate their mettle at any given moment and run intellectual circles around both most astrologers *and* quite a number of academics. This is at least my experience.

 

It seems to me important to distinguish between whether you object on semantic grounds to the use of the title "professor" -- i.e., because it's simply the wrong term and inapposite, i.e., apples and oranges -- or whether you are otherwise concluding and therefore suggesting that the appointed Gurus do not have intellectual or academic experience commensurate with said position and title. (e.g., if the concern regards the equivalent of a Masters thesis or doctoral dissertation, this should be proffered.)

 

Perhaps you bring one grievance, perhaps the other, or maybe both, but I really think it's essential first to separate the issues.

 

Respectfully,

 

J.I. Abbot

Jyotish Toddler

(and Lecturer in English, University of Hartford -- my kids call me either Mr. Abbot or Prof.)"J.Weiss" <jayhw wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Sarabani and all members,

 

This mail is sent in good faith so please do not misinterpret it!

 

I strongly object to the misuse of the title "Professor" as described in SJC's last 'Appointment of Jyotisha guru's".

 

The title professor is a genuine academic title which follows a specific predefined international criteria and used by recognized academic institutions.

The title 'professor' is earned in universities after many years of study, sweat, blood, tears and difficult exams, usually taking a part of a life time.

 

SJC is NOT an academic institution nor a recognized high-education institute and as such has no authority to allocate or appoint academic titles.

 

I may be wrong but I find it very unethical and certainly against the purity that Jyotish teaches us.

It will be advisable to review this issue prior to any action from any officials ...

 

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

 

 

 

-

Sarbani

; varahamihira ; vedic astrology ; SJC: Vyasa ; sjcasia

Cc: Dhira.Krsna.BCS ; swee ; sarajit ; gauranga ; ahimsa ; chandra ; Karu-1 ; satyaprakasika ; vishnu

Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:31 PM

|Sri Varaha| Appointment of new Gurus and Administrative heads

 

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

 

 

Dear Jyotisha,

 

Sri Jagannath Center is pleased to announce on this auspicious day, new jyotisha gurus, SJC gurus (regional gurus) and country heads for the Asia, Australia and European regions. The names of the newly appointed gurus and administrative heads are listed in the attached pdf file.

 

With best wishes,

 

Sarbani Sarkar