Guest guest Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 namaste Bit confused by the following write-up by Avtar Krishen Kaul. refer to http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm I am still confused but taking a zodiacal position with respect to the fixed stars (Nirayan system) for the planets i do not find offensive nor logically challenged. However there seems to be a lot of logic and commonsense in his following assertion: " Topocentric versus geocentric: The parting shot is that there is another anachronism going on in Indian Panchangas – topocentric versus geocentric longitudes of planets, especially the moon. Raphael’s Ephemeris had been hammering this point for the last several years and now even the “nirayana bible” viz. Lahiri’s Ephemeris for 2002 had to admit on page 5, “The longitudes are apparent geocentric positions as seen from the centre of the earth. The topocentric positions i.e. the positions as seen by an observer at any specified point of the earth’s surface, slightly differ from the geocentric position, being 9 arc seconds for Sun, 62 arc minutes for Moon and 1 arc minute for planets.” Topocentric actually means longitudes for the concerned place e.g. Delhi where this article is being prepared, after making corrections for horizontal parallax. Geocentric, on the other hand, means longitudes for a non-existent imaginary place --- the “bowels” of the earth--- where temperatures range between 5000° and 7000° Celsius. The former is sanctioned and recommended even by our sidhantas and modern astronomy whereas the latter is adopted only by “Vedic astrologers” for calculating Dasha Bhuktis (thus making “correct predictions” from incorrect data!) and matching of horoscopes etc. besides working out tithi, nakshatra etc. from those very longitudes prepared for a non-existent place. We shall touch that “raw nerve” of Indian panchangas and Indian astrology in detail some other time in some other write up. " end quote. I have found that when i raise questions about the tropical zodiac, the defendants of that system never fail to come back with "because it works" which doesn't really provide any logical explanation. Also becuase if it works so well then why use so "orbs". Now regarding the above "Topocentric v's Geocentric" only twice would the Moon co-ordinates be exactly equal. Also since the Dasha system is the dominant element of Jyotish then an incorrect Moon's degree would make everything so incorrect if i may use that word. I would appreciate my fellow members thoughts please ? ciao Iver PS: Donald Bradley "the father" of modern financial astology did wrire about "parallaxproblem in astrology". Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 My dear Iver, The fact that we use a different point of view that works does not mean that we are using wrong data. We are using a different point of view, that’s all. Anyway, what is right and what is wrong is also a by-product of the mind, and many times we notice that our minds are deceiving us. So, it is better to transcend the mind. Just keep it simple. Best wishes, Jorge SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of del iver domingo, 6 de Agosto de 2006 07:43 samva Location (Topocentric) v's Geocentric namaste Bit confused by the following write-up by Avtar Krishen Kaul. refer to http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm I am still confused but taking a zodiacal position with respect to the fixed stars (Nirayan system) for the planets i do not find offensive nor logically challenged. However there seems to be a lot of logic and commonsense in his following assertion: " Topocentric versus geocentric: The parting shot is that there is another anachronism going on in Indian Panchangas – topocentric versus geocentric longitudes of planets, especially the moon. Raphael’s Ephemeris had been hammering this point for the last several years and now even the “nirayana bible†viz. Lahiri’s Ephemeris for 2002 had to admit on page 5, “The longitudes are apparent geocentric positions as seen from the centre of the earth. The topocentric positions i.e. the positions as seen by an observer at any specified point of the earth’s surface, slightly differ from the geocentric position, being 9 arc seconds for Sun, 62 arc minutes for Moon and 1 arc minute for planets.†Topocentric actually means longitudes for the concerned place e.g. Delhi where this article is being prepared, after making corrections for horizontal parallax. Geocentric, on the other hand, means longitudes for a non-existent imaginary place --- the “bowels†of the earth--- where temperatures range between 5000° and 7000° Celsius. The former is sanctioned and recommended even by our sidhantas and modern astronomy whereas the latter is adopted only by “Vedic astrologers†for calculating Dasha Bhuktis (thus making “correct predictions†from incorrect data!) and matching of horoscopes etc. besides working out tithi, nakshatra etc. from those very longitudes prepared for a non-existent place. We shall touch that “raw nerve†of Indian panchangas and Indian astrology in detail some other time in some other write up. " end quote. I have found that when i raise questions about the tropical zodiac, the defendants of that system never fail to come back with " because it works " which doesn't really provide any logical explanation. Also becuase if it works so well then why use so " orbs " . Now regarding the above " Topocentric v's Geocentric " only twice would the Moon co-ordinates be exactly equal. Also since the Dasha system is the dominant element of Jyotish then an incorrect Moon's degree would make everything so incorrect if i may use that word. I would appreciate my fellow members thoughts please ? ciao Iver PS: Donald Bradley " the father " of modern financial astology did wrire about " parallaxproblem in astrology " .  Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to . -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release 04.08.2006 -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release 05.08.2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 To do proper parallax you also have to know the altitude of the location. I don't know of any atlases that include that information. You can test the difference between geocentric and topocentric at sea level by using my Javascript program LunaCalc on my website: www.jyotishtools.com Personally I think all this jyotish was based on abstract calculation to begin with and to make too much of exactitude may be nothing but an illusion. Best Regards, Brian Conrad Swami Jigasuanand JyotishTools.com del iver wrote: >namaste > Bit confused by the following write-up by Avtar Krishen Kaul. > refer to http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm > > > I am still confused but taking a zodiacal position with respect to the fixed stars (Nirayan system) for the planets i do not find offensive nor logically challenged. > > However there seems to be a lot of logic and commonsense in his following assertion: > " > Topocentric versus geocentric: > The parting shot is that there is another anachronism going on in Indian Panchangas – topocentric versus geocentric longitudes of planets, especially the moon. Raphael’s Ephemeris had been hammering this point for the last several years and now even the “nirayana bible” viz. Lahiri’s Ephemeris for 2002 had to admit on page 5, “The longitudes are apparent geocentric positions as seen from the centre of the earth. The topocentric positions i.e. the positions as seen by an observer at any specified point of the earth’s surface, slightly differ from the geocentric position, being 9 arc seconds for Sun, 62 arc minutes for Moon and 1 arc minute for planets.” Topocentric actually means longitudes for the concerned place e.g. Delhi where this article is being prepared, after making corrections for horizontal parallax. Geocentric, on the other hand, means longitudes for a non-existent imaginary place --- the “bowels” of the earth--- where temperatures range between 5000° and > 7000° Celsius. The former is sanctioned and recommended even by our sidhantas and modern astronomy whereas the latter is adopted only by “Vedic astrologers” for calculating Dasha Bhuktis (thus making “correct predictions” from incorrect data!) and matching of horoscopes etc. besides working out tithi, nakshatra etc. from those very longitudes prepared for a non-existent place. We shall touch that “raw nerve” of Indian panchangas and Indian astrology in detail some other time in some other write up. " > > end quote. > > I have found that when i raise questions about the tropical zodiac, the defendants of that system never fail to come back with " because it works " which doesn't really provide any logical explanation. Also becuase if it works so well then why use so " orbs " . > > Now regarding the above " Topocentric v's Geocentric " only twice would the Moon co-ordinates be exactly equal. Also since the Dasha system is the dominant element of Jyotish then an incorrect Moon's degree would make everything so incorrect if i may use that word. > > I would appreciate my fellow members thoughts please ? > ciao > Iver > > PS: Donald Bradley " the father " of modern financial astology did wrire about " parallaxproblem in astrology " . > > > >Groups are talking. We & acute;re listening. Check out the handy changes to . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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