Differentiate between the elected government & de facto governme

[Guest guest]

Dear Jorge,

 

Thank you for your clarification, but which I find hard to agree

with. As per normal practice of using the scientific methodology, it

is necessary to rely on objective testing, and not subjective fitting

of analysis to past events, in order to confirm the authenticity of a

chart. As our discussion today about the Virgo and Scorpio ascendants

shows clearly enough it is possible to argue the same objective

outcome based on the subjective choice of different analytical

components. Such a subjective approach can never constitute proof of

the authenticity of a chart. Using predictions need not depend on too

much expertise if it posits the prediciton in terms of exact

stationary transit to natal contacts. It is sufficient to note the

house or planetary significations that are being subject to strain

(or support) and let the actual events refute or confirm that

prediction. For the credibility of astrology, we cannot eschew

objective scientific methodology.

 

Best regards,

 

C

 

 

SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino

wrote:

>

> Dear Cosmologer,

>

> Thanks for your clarification.

>

> Regarding the secrecy and the military aspect of of the regime, the

exact

> conjunction/affliction of the Sun (authority, military), L12

(secrecy) and

> dispositor of Mars (military), with combust Mercury, L1 (the

country,

> communication) also explains it. Besides, this Sun afflicts MEP4

and MEP10,

> and Mars, L8, afflicts MEP12, MEP3, MEP6 and MEP7.

>

> Regarding the value of accurate predictions to resolve this kind of

issues

> satisfactorily, I agree with you that they have some value.

However, it

> seems that this is not the case with the rectified chart of US, for

example.

> Some correct predictions have already happened, and one of them

even done by

> our dear Professor regarding the Katrina, and still some doubts

persist in

> some list members regarding the validity of the US rectified chart.

>

> My humble position regarding correct predictions is that we can´t

use them

> alone to decide about the validity of any chart as they depend on

the

> astrologer's expertise, and so I prefer to rectify the charts based

also on

> facts that already happened. That is the value of the past i.e. of

History:

> we can learn with it and improve our way of seeing better into the

future.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Jorge

>

>

> On 1/2/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

> >

> > Dear Jorge,

> >

> > The 4:20 AM is used as that is the time selected by the Burmese

> > astrologers and the flag hoisting ceremony was performed then. Two

> > major reasons for selecting the Scorpio ascendant are as follows:

> > - this ascendant with L12 Venus on H3 MEP would explain this

> > secretive regime.

> > - the influence of L6 Mars on H1 fits the military regime.

> >

> > That said, only accurate predictions will resolve the issue

> > satisfactorily as mentioned in my earlier post. However, that will

> > have to wait until there is more time to do the required analysis

of

> > the period and transit events.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > C

> >

> >

> >

> > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Cosmologer,

> > >

> > > As you are using a different chart for Burma, you must have your

> > very good

> > > reason to do it. It would be good for all the list members, if

you

> > can find

> > > some time to share with us the reasoning of your choice.

> > >

> > > Let me share with you and the list my reasoning for the

preference

> > of a

> > > Virgo rising chart.

> > >

> > > In the list of events/facts used in the rectification of Burma,

(my

> > message

> > > #8409, from February 24, 2005) I said:

> > >

> > > *ATTENTION: At 4:20 AM they were already independent, according

> > with the

> > > British tradition to give independence at 12:00 AM. So, the flag

> > hoisting

> > > ceremony was held 4:20hrs after the real independence moment.

> > However,

> > > please note that the MEPs of both charts are 17:23 and 17:32

(Jorge

> > > Angelino).*

> > >

> > > As in this case we have only 2 possible options, a Virgo rising

> > chart

> > > and a Scorpio

> > > rising chart, both with the same MEPs, it becomes easier to

compare

> > the

> > > charts. Both share 3 common FMPs (Mars, Rahu, and Ketu), so we

will

> > forget

> > > about them. Virgo has the Sun and Saturn as FMPs, and Scorpio

has a

> > > different one, the MMP Venus.

> > >

> > > Doing a little exercise with the dates of some calamities, we

> > should be able

> > > to see if we get more cases of Venus closer to 17 degrees, or

more

> > cases of

> > > Saturn and/or the Sun closer to the same MEP longitude.

> > >

> > > Let us do it for some of the events used in the rectification

work:

> > >

> > > Natural Disasters in Myanmar

> > >

> > > Disaster Date Killed

> > > Wind Storm 10-May-1968 1,070 > Sa 26:15, Su 26:20, Ve 15:17

> > > Wind Storm 19-May-2004 236 > Sa 16:43, Su 04:39, Ve 02:11

> > > Wind Storm 23-Oct-1967 178 > Sa 14:04, Su 05:42, Ve 20:22

> > > Wind Storm 23-Oct-1965 100 > Sa 17:31, Su 06:13, Ve 21:50

> > > Wind Storm 16-May-1967 100 > Sa 15:15, Su 01:16, Ve 13:20

> > >

> > > Disaster Date Affected

> > > Flood 15-Jul-1974 1,400,000 > Sa 16:44, Su 28:51, Ve 29:21

> > > Wind Storm 2-May-1994 64,970 > Sa 16:29, Su 17:48, Ve 13:28

> > > Technological Disasters in Myanmar

> > >

> > > Disaster Date Killed

> > > Transport Accident 30-Dec-1994 102 > Sa 14:03, Su 14:29, Ve

28:28

> > > Transport Accident 4-Oct-1987 100 > Sa 22:29, Su 16:46, Ve 28:03

> > >

> > > Disaster Date Affected

> > > Misc Accident 24-Mar-1984 23,000 > Sa 22:03, Su 10:07, Ve 18:20

> > > Misc Accident 16-Feb-1989 22,324 > Sa 16:55, Su 03:49, Ve 21:56

> > > Misc Accident 4-Mar-1986 21,540 > Sa 15:50, Su 19:40, Ve 00:12

> > > Misc Accident 20-Mar-1988 20,000 > Sa 08:28, Su 06:08, Ve 21:26

> > > Misc Accident 27-Jul-1989 9,50 > Sa 15:10, Su 10:27, Ve 10:06

> > >

> > > date type registration operator fat. location pic cat

> > > 02-JUL-1999 Fokker F-27 XY-AEO Myanma Airways 8 Myanmar A1

> > > 24-AUG-1998 Fokker F-27 XY-AEN Myanma Airways 36 Myanmar A1

> > > 27-JAN-1998 Fokker F-27 XY-AES Myanma Airways 16 Myanmar A1

> > > 24-JUL-1996 Fokker F-27 XY-AET Myanma Airways 8 Myanmar A1

> > > 06-OCT-1993 Fokker F-27 XY-AEP Myanma Airways 0 Myanmar A1

> > > 03-FEB-1989 Fokker F-27 XY-AEK Burma Airways 26 Myanmar A1

> > > 11-OCT-1987 Fokker F-27 XY-AEL Burma Airways 49 Myanmar A1

> > > 21-JUN-1987 Fokker F-27 XY-ADP Burma Airways 45 Myanmar A1

> > > 08-OCT-1983 DHC-6 Twin Otter XY-AEE Burma Airways 9 Myanmar A1

> > > 24-JAN-1980 Fairchild FH-227 5003 Burma AF 43 Myanmar A1

> > > 03-OCT-1978 Fokker F-27 XY-ADY Burma Airways 2 Myanmar A1

> > > 08-SEP-1977 DHC-6 Twin Otter XY-AEH Burma Airways 25 Myanmar

A1

> > > 05-JUL-1976 Douglas DC-3 ? Burma AF 17 Myanmar A1

> > > 16-AUG-1972 Douglas DC-3 XY-ACM Burma Airways 28 Myanmar A1

> > > 08-AUG-1956 Douglas DC-3 XY-ADC Union of Burma Airways 11

Myanmar

> > A1

> > > 02-SEP-1955 Douglas DC-3 XY-ACQ Union of Burma Airways 9 Myanmar

> > A1

> > >

> > > 1975 Jul 8, An earthquake struck Pagan (Bagan), Burma,

and

> > destroyed

> > > many monuments.

> > >

> > > 1988 Aug 8-Aug 13, The police killed nearly 3,000

protesters

> > in the

> > > streets of Rangoon.

> > >

> > > 1990 Apr 7, In Burma 30 people died when a ferry flipped

> > over.

> > >

> > > 2001 Feb 19, A helicopter crash killed junta Lt. Gen.

Tin Oo

> > (67) and

> > > left 14 missing.

> > >

> > > 2004 May 19, A cyclone that swept through western Myanmar

> > and left

> > > more than 140 people dead or missing, and about 18,000 people

> > homeless.

> > >

> > > Official reports from the government of Myanmar (Burma) cite a

> > death toll of

> > > 56 due to the tsunami caused by the 2004 Indian Ocean

earthquake on

> > 26

> > > December 2004. Independent media reports 90 people killed

> > > As the green colour predominates (20 isolated green cases

against 7

> > isolated

> > > yellow cases), I would keep the Virgo rising chart as the most

> > probable

> > > chart in the list of rectified charts.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Jorge

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On 1/1/07, cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Jorge,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the additional information.

> > > >

> > > > For the time being, I am going with the information in Book of

> > World

> > > > Horoscopes. Interestingly, the information submitted by you

also

> > > > contains the 4:20 AM hour that was selected by astrologers.

> > > >

> > > > As before, predictions will be necessary to resolve the

question

> > of

> > > > authenticity of a given birth chart.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > >

> > > > C

> > > >

> > > > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino "

<jorge.angelino@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear C.

> > > > >

> > > > > As the independence was given by UK, the rectified hour came

> > out to

> > > > be 12:00

> > > > > AM.

> > > > >

> > > > > Independence of Burma

> > > > > 1. -

> > > > >

> > > > > (1) On the appointed day, Burma shall become an independent

> > > > country, neither

> > > > > forming part of His Majesty's dominions nor entitled to His

> > > > Majesty's

> > > > > protection.

> > > > >

> > > > > (2) In this Act, the expression " the appointed day " means

the

> > > > fourth day of

> > > > > January, nineteen hundred and forty-eight.

> > > > >

> > > > > (3) The suzerainty of His Majesty over the part of Burma

known

> > as

> > > > the

> > > > > Karenni States shall lapse as from the appointed day, and

with

> > it

> > > > all

> > > > > treaties and agreements in force between His Majesty and the

> > rulers

> > > > of the

> > > > > Karenni States, all functions exercisable by His Majesty

with

> > > > respect to the

> > > > > Karenni States, all obligations of His Majesty towards the

> > Karenni

> > > > States or

> > > > > the rulers thereof, and all powers, rights, authority or

> > > > jurisdiction

> > > > > exercisable by His Majesty in or in relation to the Karenni

> > States

> > > > by

> > > > > treaty, grant, usage, sufferance or otherwise.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > http://www.ibiblio.org/freeburma/docs/burma_independence_docs.html

> > > > >

> > > > > Regaining of independence

> > > > >

> > > > > The British scheme to practise divide-and-rule policy

failed as

> > all

> > > > the

> > > > > national people showed their unity by signing the Panlong

> > Agreement

> > > > on 12

> > > > > February 1947. Myanmar became an independent and sovereign

> > nation

> > > > on 4

> > > > > January ] 948 as struggles were launched with the spirit of

> > national

> > > > > solidarity forged at the Panlong Conference as the base.

> > > > >

> > > > > At the Secretariat (now, the Office of the Ministers) at

4.20

> > am on

> > > > 4

> > > > > January 1948, the Independence Day flag hoisting ceremony

was

> > held.

> > > > After

> > > > > independence declaration paper was read, the government was

> > formed

> > > > and Shan

> > > > > national Sao Shwe Thaik was declared the first president of

the

> > > > Union of

> > > > > Myanmar.

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.myanmar.com/Union/independence.html

> > > > > The rectified chart is:

> > > > > *BURMA*

> > > > > Jan 4, 1948 12:00 AM -06:30 NST

> > > > > Rangoon, Burma Longitude: 96E10 Latitude: 16N47

> > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:07 Current Period: SA/JU/ME

> > > > >

> > > > > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> > > > > ================================================

> > > > > Asc 17:23 Vir Hasta Mo

> > > > > Sun 19:07 Sag +01:01:10 FM P.Shadya Ve

> > > > > Moon 22:22 Vir +13:24:11 WK Hasta Mo

> > > > > Mars 14:19 Leo +00:03:38 FM P.Phalguni Ve

> > > > > Merc 19:14 Sag +01:36:53 CM P.Shadya Ve

> > > > > Jupt 22:35 Sco +00:12:47 WK Jyeshtha Me

> > > > > Ven 19:09 Cap +01:14:11 ST Shravana Mo

> > > > > Sat R 28:43 Can -00:03:08 FM Aslesha Me

> > > > > Rahu 29:03 Ari +00:00:18 FM Krittika Su

> > > > > Ketu 29:03 Lib +00:00:18 FM Vishakha Ju

> > > > >

> > > > > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 771 beats

> > > > > Day: Sunday Sunrise: 6:37 AM

> > > > > Tithi: Krishna Ashtami

> > > > > Yoga Pt: 14:49 Vi Yogi:Mo AviYogi:Me Dup Yogi: Me

> > > > > Dagha Rashis: Gem Vir

> > > > >

> > > > > Rashi Chart

> > > > > *******************************************************

> > > > > ** 7 * * 5 **

> > > > > *8 * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * KE 29:03* MA 14:19* *

> > > > > * * * AS 17:23 * * *

> > > > > *JU 22:35 * 6 MO 22:22 * 4 SAR28:43*

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > ** SU 19:07 * * **

> > > > > *9 ME 19:14 * 3 *

> > > > > ** * * **

> > > > > *10* * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > *VE 19:09 * 12 * 2 *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * RA 29:03 * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > ** 11 * * 1 **

> > > > > *******************************************************

> > > > >

> > > > > Navamsha

> > > > > *******************************************************

> > > > > ** 4 * * 2 **

> > > > > *5 * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * MO * * * *

> > > > > * * * AS * * *

> > > > > *MA * 3 VE * 1 *

> > > > > * * * KE * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > ** SU * * **

> > > > > *6 ME * 12 SAR *

> > > > > ** * * **

> > > > > *7 * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * 9 RA * 11 *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * JU * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > * * * * * *

> > > > > ** 8 * * 10 **

> > > > > *******************************************************

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > Jorge

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On 1/1/07, Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Mr. Soe and list,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Burma has had a military dictatorship for almost six

decades.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In the Book of World Horoscopes (1996 ed.) we find

that " Full

> > > > independence

> > > > > > was granted at 4:20 AM on 4 January 1948,* 'the hour

having

> > been

> > > > chosen by

> > > > > > Burmese astrologers as auspicious'*. " p. 106.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In this 18° Scorpio rising chart, L6 Mars is placed at

14°

> > Leo

> > > > on H10 MEP.

> > > > > > As such, the sixth lord is aspecting H1, which is

suggestive

> > of

> > > > military

> > > > > > government. Moreover, L12 Venus is at 19° Capricorn on

H3 MEP

> > > > suggestive of

> > > > > > secrecy or deception in communication.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Favourably, L2 Jupiter is at 22° Scorpio and H1 MEP,

> > aspecting

> > > > H5, H7 and

> > > > > > H9. L10 Sun is at 19° Sagittarius exactly conjunct L11

> > Mercury

> > > > in H2 MEP.

> > > > > > Finally, L9 Moon is well placed and strong in H11.

Certainly,

> > the

> > > > above

> > > > > > factors would help to explain why such a military regime

has

> > > > remained in

> > > > > > place for so long.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At the same time, the affliction of L6 Mars on H4 MEP,

> > affliction

> > > > of

> > > > > > L12 Venus of H9 and weakness of L4 Saturn in H9 would

explain

> > the

> > > > harsh

> > > > > > conditions of the people.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > C

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Professor,

> > > > > > Thanks for your suggestion,

> > > > > > with wishes for you and your family " HAPPY NEW YEAR 2007 "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Khin Maung Soe.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *siha@* wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello Mr. Soe,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is difficult to find out for certain. The strong

influence

> > of

> > > > the lord

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > the sixth house on the 1st, third or fourth houses can

> > indicate a

> > > > govt

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > than elected.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > " Khin Maung Soe "

> > > > <kmsoe2001@<SAMVA/post?

> > > > postID=iUNwpvJUwO7-

> > > >

> >

Q4YErKmg9MKOEJY8iDg7wOyP7CrniPEC2NdN1UmoNOODy5ty5RSX3m8fcbSEif9M6iHa>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > To:

> > > >

<SAMVA <SAMVA/post?

> > > > postID=45X-

> > > >

> >

Kx2vKktpea_vU0TvrHTe8hNQWjHWNUfuoPeKQqPM9c7iQuz5rfkPnIs3SPwBvfD4jPX-

> > > > rfIckSD4bphej2A>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > Sunday, December 31, 2006 8:19 PM

> > > > > > Differentiate between the elected

government

> > &

> > > > de facto

> > > > > > government.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Professor and repected astrologers,

> > > > > > > Using the System's approah, how we can diffenentiate the

> > planet

> > > > > > > signifying the Elected Government & that's representing

the

> > de

> > > > facto

> > > > > > > government, such as military regime.

> > > > > > > Thanks you very much for your kindly advice.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Khin Maung Soe.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >