July 4, 1776 Gets Yet Another Look [for Ron Day]

March 6, 2007

In his reply to Mr. Ron Day's query on the topic, Professor V. K. Choudry has posted his considered thumb-down astrological view of the Kelleher Chart, for July 4, 1776 @ 18:30 hrs. Thank you, Professor. THE actual DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: JULY 2, 1776 @ 16:48:05 hrs LMT, Philly, PA What does an

objective reading of the historical record tell the astrologer of the meaning and significance of the subsequent declaration event of July 4, 1776? What precisely was declared on July 4th, two days after the declaration of independence on July 2, 1776? Innumerable popular and scholarly histories of July 4, 1776 long-long

ago transformed this historic date into a national holiday, and Thomas Jefferson's brilliant broadside, edited by Congress, transformed into a national icon. To suggest that July 4th is nothing more than the date inadvertently affixed in error to the title legend of this very significant and historic document, published on July 5, 1776, is a suggestion in polite American company widely considered deserving only of the treatment reserved for religious heresy. The SAMVA group has embraced completely this historical-religious heresy, and rightly so in my estimation of the history of the event. Here's why I think SAMVA has it right: The Jefferson broadside is

widely known and has been OFFICIALLY designated as the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. But the document has no prior historical right to this appellation. The Declaration of Independence IS NOT the title of the document in question. The document is entitled, simply: "A DECLARATION". This is the real, the actual title of Jefferson's broadside, which was first tabled for consideration by Congress on June 28, 1776. This Jefferson broadside was soon after edited by the Committee of the Whole in the Continental Congress, on the afternoon of July 3, and the morning of July 4. [As reported in the J.C.C., after the enactment of the actual declaration of independence of July 2, there wasn't sufficient time to get into the editing of Jefferson's text that day. Editing started in earnest on July 3.] Experts are largely in agreement that the document's TEXT was markedly improved for this 2-day editorial effort. The edited-by-Congress TEXT was finally adopted on July 4 in the morning session, this session being 9:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. [And,

following a 2 hour "dinner" recess, then it was back to start the afternoon session, being 4:00 to 6:00, or 7:00 p.m., as the work load dictated on a given day.] Paul H. Smith, editor of the "Letters of Delegates to Congress, 1774-1789" wrote the definitive essay on the timing of the events during the sessions of July 4, 1776, [source: “Time and Temperature: Philadelphia, July 4, 1776.” Quarterly Journal of the Library of Congress, October 1976.] Paul Smith writes on p. 296, Quote: "Examination of all available evidence provides no reason to doubt that (said) committee (appointed subsequently to the adoption of the Declaration) had been appointed IN THE MORNING of July 4, and since considerable time undoubtedly elapsed between adoption of the DECLARATION and the later, morning appointment of the (said) committee, one is forced to the conclusion that the vote on the DECLARATION was probably taken before 11:00 a.m." Unquote. This is Smith’s authoritative findings from a review of the undoubted evidence that the

Declaration was adopted before the dinner (lunch) recess, not after. Where this writer objects to Paul Smith's authoritative interpretation is on a small but telling point: that Smith fails to point out that the "morning" session lasted until roughly 2:00 p.m. I think a more realistic estimation would affix the likely time moment range

between 11:50 and 12:50 hrs. Either way, Smith's or this writer's, the event of the adoption of the TEXT of the DECLARATION took place during the duration of VIRGO RISING. And therefore, Leo, Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius rising charts, proposed and rectified for this day, are pure fictions. Yes, FICTIONS. The implied lesson here is that competent historical research matters. Please don't challenge this writer; take it up with Paul Smith or with Pauline Maier, full professor of American history, and M.I.T.'s “high priestess” of the history of the DECLARATION. [Maier’s book, AMERICAN SCRIPTURE, is outstanding scholarship.] CONCLUDED: THAT THE ADOPTION OF THE TEXT REALLY HAPPENED IN THE MORNING SESSION, between 10:25 a.m. and 12:50 p.m. NOW, JUST WHAT EXACTLY IS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE? The so-called Declaration of Independence, dated July 4, 1776, is precisely entitled, Quote: "A

DECLARATION by the REPRESENTAIVES of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA in General Congress assembled." Unquote. And, the broadside is precisely that, in its contents. The historic broadside is "more" than just the declaration of independence of July 2. The broadside is an eloquent explanation and justification for taking that "2-days-prior" decision. The broadside doesn't just "re-declare" independence; it declares the reasons for the act taken already, on July 2. The actual Declaration of Independence is written into the final paragraph of the text of "A DECLARATION". Quote "We . . . the Representatives of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA . . . do . . . solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political Connection between them and the State of Great-Britain is and ought to be totally dissolved; . . " Unquote. Sound familiar? It should. It's the actual Declaration of Independence, the actual one of July 2. DON’T TELL ME TO THE CONTRARY, PLEASE Don’t

argue that despite all that’s related here, that the Tuesday July 2 enactment was only a resolution before the real deal on July 4. Go tell that the editors of the two local Philadelphia newspapers which reported that very week the July 2 Declaration of Independence. One of these newspapers did so on that very July 2 evening. Go tell that to the ghosts of the party goers in the local Philly taverns, who celebrated the event on that very July 2 evening. Go tell that to the ghosts of the Continental soldiers in New York City, who first received word of the July 2 Declaration of Independence on Saturday July 6 [Compare: the word of the July 4 "A Declaration" reached N.Y.C. on the evening of July 8.]. The libations flowed freely that Saturday evening. In lower Manhattan from the windows

of some of the pubs and taverns, one could possibly see the lanterns of the British fleet in the harbor. That fleet arrived on June 29-July 2 with General Howe who was soon joined by Admiral Howe, his brother, on July 12. In all, 280 ships carrying 31,000 British and Hessian soldiers. Histories have recorded that the combined fleets of the brothers Howe made for the largest armada the world had ever seen up until 1776. Historian David Freeman Hawke, [deceased] emeritus professor of history at the City University of New York, wrote of the early morning of July 5, after Jefferson, on behalf of the drafting committee, put the finishing touches on the printer’s proof-copy of A DECLARATION : Quote: "The official printer placed July 4 at the top of his broadside of the Declaration and thus accidentally that day came to be celebrated with the pomp and ceremony John Adams expected to be given over to July 2, the day Congress declared independence. . ." Source: “HONORABLE TREASON: The Declaration of Independence and the Men Who Signed It." Viking Press, N.Y. 1976, p. 187. Case closed. Cheers, John

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March 6, 2007

Dear John,

Thank you for being so clear and precise on this event.

Best wishes,

Jorge

On 3/6/07, JohnTWB <blazingstar1776 wrote:

In his reply to Mr. Ron Day's query on the topic, Professor V. K. Choudry has posted his considered thumb-down astrological view of the Kelleher Chart, for July 4, 1776 @ 18:30 hrs.

Thank you, Professor.

THE actual DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: JULY 2, 1776 @ 16:48:05 hrs LMT, Philly, PA

What does an objective reading of the historical record tell the astrologer of the meaning and significance of the subsequent declaration event of July 4, 1776? What precisely was declared on July 4th, two days after the declaration of independence on July 2, 1776?

Innumerable popular and scholarly histories of July 4, 1776 long-long ago transformed this historic date into a national holiday, and Thomas Jefferson's brilliant broadside, edited by Congress, transformed into a national icon. To suggest that July 4th is nothing more than the date inadvertently affixed in error to the title legend of this very significant and historic document, published on July 5, 1776, is a suggestion in polite American company widely considered deserving only of the treatment reserved for religious heresy.

The SAMVA group has embraced completely this historical-religious heresy, and rightly so in my estimation of the history of the event. Here's why I think SAMVA has it right:

The Jefferson broadside is widely known and has been OFFICIALLY designated as the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. But the document has no prior historical right to this appellation. The Declaration of Independence IS NOT the title of the document in question. The document is entitled, simply: " A DECLARATION " . This is the real, the actual title of Jefferson's broadside, which was first tabled for consideration by Congress on June 28, 1776. This Jefferson broadside was soon after edited by the Committee of the Whole in the Continental Congress, on the afternoon of July 3, and the morning of July 4. [As reported in the J.C.C., after the enactment of the actual declaration of independence of July 2, there wasn't sufficient time to get into the editing of Jefferson's text that day. Editing started in earnest on July 3.]

Experts are largely in agreement that the document's TEXT was markedly improved for this 2-day editorial effort. The edited-by-Congress TEXT was finally adopted on July 4 in the morning session, this session being 9:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. [And, following a 2 hour " dinner " recess, then it was back to start the afternoon session, being 4:00 to 6:00, or 7:00 p.m., as the work load dictated on a given day.]

Paul H. Smith, editor of the " Letters of Delegates to Congress, 1774-1789 " wrote the definitive essay on the timing of the events during the sessions of July 4, 1776, [source: "Time and Temperature: Philadelphia, July 4, 1776." Quarterly Journal of the Library of Congress, October 1976.] Paul Smith writes on p. 296, Quote: " Examination of all available evidence provides no reason to doubt that (said) committee (appointed subsequently to the adoption of the Declaration) had been appointed IN THE MORNING of July 4, and since considerable time undoubtedly elapsed between adoption of the DECLARATION and the later, morning appointment of the (said) committee, one is forced to the conclusion that the vote on the DECLARATION was probably taken before 11:00 a.m. " Unquote. This is Smith's authoritative findings from a review of the undoubted evidence that the Declaration was adopted before the dinner (lunch) recess, not after.

Where this writer objects to Paul Smith's authoritative interpretation is on a small but telling point: that Smith fails to point out that the " morning " session lasted until roughly 2:00 p.m. I think a more realistic estimation would affix the likely time moment range between 11:50 and 12:50 hrs. Either way, Smith's or this writer's, the event of the adoption of the TEXT of the DECLARATION took place during the duration of VIRGO RISING. And therefore, Leo, Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius rising charts, proposed and rectified for this day, are pure fictions. Yes, FICTIONS. The implied lesson here is that competent historical research matters. Please don't challenge this writer; take it up with Paul Smith or with Pauline Maier, full professor of American history, and M.I.T.'s "high priestess" of the history of the DECLARATION. [Maier's book, AMERICAN SCRIPTURE, is outstanding scholarship.]

CONCLUDED: THAT THE ADOPTION OF THE TEXT REALLY HAPPENED IN THE MORNING SESSION, between 10:25 a.m. and 12:50 p.m.

NOW, JUST WHAT EXACTLY IS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE?

The so-called Declaration of Independence, dated July 4, 1776, is precisely entitled, Quote: " A DECLARATION by the REPRESENTAIVES of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA in General Congress assembled. " Unquote. And, the broadside is precisely that, in its contents. The historic broadside is " more " than just the declaration of independence of July 2. The broadside is an eloquent explanation and justification for taking that " 2-days-prior " decision. The broadside doesn't just " re-declare " independence; it declares the reasons for the act taken already, on July 2.

The actual Declaration of Independence is written into the final paragraph of the text of " A DECLARATION " . Quote " We . . . the Representatives of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA . . . do . . . solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political Connection between them and the State of Great-Britain is and ought to be totally dissolved; . . " Unquote.

Sound familiar? It should. It's the actual Declaration of Independence, the actual one of July 2.

DON'T TELL ME TO THE CONTRARY, PLEASE

Don't argue that despite all that's related here, that the Tuesday July 2 enactment was only a resolution before the real deal on July 4. Go tell that the editors of the two local Philadelphia newspapers which reported that very week the July 2 Declaration of Independence. One of these newspapers did so on that very July 2 evening. Go tell that to the ghosts of the party goers in the local Philly taverns, who celebrated the event on that very July 2 evening. Go tell that to the ghosts of the Continental soldiers in New York City, who first received word of the July 2 Declaration of Independence on Saturday July 6 [Compare: the word of the July 4 " A Declaration " reached N.Y.C. on the evening of July 8.]. The libations flowed freely that Saturday evening. In lower Manhattan from the windows of some of the pubs and taverns, one could possibly see the lanterns of the British fleet in the harbor. That fleet arrived on June 29-July 2 with General Howe who was soon joined by Admiral Howe, his brother, on July 12. In all, 280 ships carrying 31,000 British and Hessian soldiers. Histories have recorded that the combined fleets of the brothers Howe made for the largest armada the world had ever seen up until 1776.

Historian David Freeman Hawke, [deceased] emeritus professor of history at the City University of New York, wrote of the early morning of July 5, after Jefferson, on behalf of the drafting committee, put the finishing touches on the printer's proof-copy of A DECLARATION : Quote: " The official printer placed July 4 at the top of his broadside of the Declaration and thus accidentally that day came to be celebrated with the pomp and ceremony John Adams expected to be given over to July 2, the day Congress declared independence. . . " Source: "HONORABLE TREASON: The Declaration of Independence and the Men Who Signed It. " Viking Press, N.Y. 1976, p. 187.

Case closed.

Cheers,

John

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March 6, 2007

Hello dear John, Thanks for bringing up the authentic historical info.

Best wishes.

-

JohnTWB

SAMVA

Tuesday, March 06, 2007 9:49 PM

July 4, 1776 Gets Yet Another Look [for Ron Day]

In his reply to Mr. Ron Day's query on the topic, Professor V. K. Choudry has posted his considered thumb-down astrological view of the Kelleher Chart, for July 4, 1776 @ 18:30 hrs.

Thank you, Professor.

THE actual DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE: JULY 2, 1776 @ 16:48:05 hrs LMT, Philly, PA

What does an objective reading of the historical record tell the astrologer of the meaning and significance of the subsequent declaration event of July 4, 1776? What precisely was declared on July 4th, two days after the declaration of independence on July 2, 1776?

Innumerable popular and scholarly histories of July 4, 1776 long-long ago transformed this historic date into a national holiday, and Thomas Jefferson's brilliant broadside, edited by Congress, transformed into a national icon. To suggest that July 4th is nothing more than the date inadvertently affixed in error to the title legend of this very significant and historic document, published on July 5, 1776, is a suggestion in polite American company widely considered deserving only of the treatment reserved for religious heresy.

The SAMVA group has embraced completely this historical-religious heresy, and rightly so in my estimation of the history of the event. Here's why I think SAMVA has it right:

The Jefferson broadside is widely known and has been OFFICIALLY designated as the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. But the document has no prior historical right to this appellation. The Declaration of Independence IS NOT the title of the document in question. The document is entitled, simply: "A DECLARATION". This is the real, the actual title of Jefferson's broadside, which was first tabled for consideration by Congress on June 28, 1776. This Jefferson broadside was soon after edited by the Committee of the Whole in the Continental Congress, on the afternoon of July 3, and the morning of July 4. [As reported in the J.C.C., after the enactment of the actual declaration of independence of July 2, there wasn't sufficient time to get into the editing of Jefferson's text that day. Editing started in earnest on July 3.]

Experts are largely in agreement that the document's TEXT was markedly improved for this 2-day editorial effort. The edited-by-Congress TEXT was finally adopted on July 4 in the morning session, this session being 9:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. [And, following a 2 hour "dinner" recess, then it was back to start the afternoon session, being 4:00 to 6:00, or 7:00 p.m., as the work load dictated on a given day.]

Paul H. Smith, editor of the "Letters of Delegates to Congress, 1774-1789" wrote the definitive essay on the timing of the events during the sessions of July 4, 1776, [source: “Time and Temperature: Philadelphia, July 4, 1776.” Quarterly Journal of the Library of Congress, October 1976.] Paul Smith writes on p. 296, Quote: "Examination of all available evidence provides no reason to doubt that (said) committee (appointed subsequently to the adoption of the Declaration) had been appointed IN THE MORNING of July 4, and since considerable time undoubtedly elapsed between adoption of the DECLARATION and the later, morning appointment of the (said) committee, one is forced to the conclusion that the vote on the DECLARATION was probably taken before 11:00 a.m." Unquote. This is Smith’s authoritative findings from a review of the undoubted evidence that the Declaration was adopted before the dinner (lunch) recess, not after.

Where this writer objects to Paul Smith's authoritative interpretation is on a small but telling point: that Smith fails to point out that the "morning" session lasted until roughly 2:00 p.m. I think a more realistic estimation would affix the likely time moment range between 11:50 and 12:50 hrs. Either way, Smith's or this writer's, the event of the adoption of the TEXT of the DECLARATION took place during the duration of VIRGO RISING. And therefore, Leo, Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius rising charts, proposed and rectified for this day, are pure fictions. Yes, FICTIONS. The implied lesson here is that competent historical research matters. Please don't challenge this writer; take it up with Paul Smith or with Pauline Maier, full professor of American history, and M.I.T.'s “high priestess” of the history of the DECLARATION. [Maier’s book, AMERICAN SCRIPTURE, is outstanding scholarship.]

CONCLUDED: THAT THE ADOPTION OF THE TEXT REALLY HAPPENED IN THE MORNING SESSION, between 10:25 a.m. and 12:50 p.m.

NOW, JUST WHAT EXACTLY IS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE?

The so-called Declaration of Independence, dated July 4, 1776, is precisely entitled, Quote: "A DECLARATION by the REPRESENTAIVES of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA in General Congress assembled." Unquote. And, the broadside is precisely that, in its contents. The historic broadside is "more" than just the declaration of independence of July 2. The broadside is an eloquent explanation and justification for taking that "2-days-prior" decision. The broadside doesn't just "re-declare" independence; it declares the reasons for the act taken already, on July 2.

The actual Declaration of Independence is written into the final paragraph of the text of "A DECLARATION". Quote "We . . . the Representatives of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA . . . do . . . solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political Connection between them and the State of Great-Britain is and ought to be totally dissolved; . . " Unquote.

Sound familiar? It should. It's the actual Declaration of Independence, the actual one of July 2.

DON’T TELL ME TO THE CONTRARY, PLEASE

Don’t argue that despite all that’s related here, that the Tuesday July 2 enactment was only a resolution before the real deal on July 4. Go tell that the editors of the two local Philadelphia newspapers which reported that very week the July 2 Declaration of Independence. One of these newspapers did so on that very July 2 evening. Go tell that to the ghosts of the party goers in the local Philly taverns, who celebrated the event on that very July 2 evening. Go tell that to the ghosts of the Continental soldiers in New York City, who first received word of the July 2 Declaration of Independence on Saturday July 6 [Compare: the word of the July 4 "A Declaration" reached N.Y.C. on the evening of July 8.]. The libations flowed freely that Saturday evening. In lower Manhattan from the windows of some of the pubs and taverns, one could possibly see the lanterns of the British fleet in the harbor. That fleet arrived on June 29-July 2 with General Howe who was soon joined by Admiral Howe, his brother, on July 12. In all, 280 ships carrying 31,000 British and Hessian soldiers. Histories have recorded that the combined fleets of the brothers Howe made for the largest armada the world had ever seen up until 1776.

Historian David Freeman Hawke, [deceased] emeritus professor of history at the City University of New York, wrote of the early morning of July 5, after Jefferson, on behalf of the drafting committee, put the finishing touches on the printer’s proof-copy of A DECLARATION : Quote: "The official printer placed July 4 at the top of his broadside of the Declaration and thus accidentally that day came to be celebrated with the pomp and ceremony John Adams expected to be given over to July 2, the day Congress declared independence. . ." Source: “HONORABLE TREASON: The Declaration of Independence and the Men Who Signed It." Viking Press, N.Y. 1976, p. 187.

Case closed.

Cheers,

John

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